Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Influence Image - Ellen Wilson Edith Wilson 20240712

This is the Woodrow Wilson house in washington d. C. , the home of our 28 president and former first Lady Edith Wilson after they left the white house in 1921, youll see more of that over the next two hours as we tell the story of the story of the two Woodrow Wilson first ladies, edith and allen. Ellen and woodrow met in their twenties and their love was reflected in passionate letters. And passioned artists and an intellectual companion, she adopted causes and set an example for future first ladies. Ellen wilson died in the white house a year and a half into the president s term. The grieving president soon met washington businesswoman edith galt through a mutual friend. They married after a series secret courtship, and she served as first lady for more than five years. Her unprecedented role in managing the president s affairs after the president s stroke remains one of the most controversial elements of any first lady. Welcome to the continuing series, first ladies, influence and image. Tonight, the story of the wilson administrations two first ladies allen and edith. We have to terrific guests to hear. Kristie miller is a biographer of two first ladies, her book is allen in edith which will since first ladies. Donaldson cooper as which are wilsons biographer. Mr. Cooper, thanks for being with us. What blake break president a little bit. Weve been telling these stories chronologically but everyone knows about it will send managing the white house, as it is described after her husband suffers a stroke. We thought we would tell that story first because so many people really want to know what happened. So, john cooper, lets start with you. Win in the president S Administration did he suffer the stroke . More than halfway through the second term. It was in october 1919. He just returned from a whirlwind speaking tour, he was trying to sell the country on ratifying the peace treaty and going into the league of nations. He really had worn himself out on that and his doctors had actually aboard the tour and he suffered this massive stroke. The story of the stroke itself is very dramatic. Tell us briefly about what happened in the white house that night. There are some conflicting reports about what happened, but i think the most accurate portrayal is that he got up in the morning, edith has been going into check on him during the night, and she found him slumped to the floor and could not move his left side. She went out into the corridor to use the telephone that did not go through the switchboard. She did not want this universally known, and she asked the chief assured to call the doctor from this other phone. And the doctor came in and they helped him into bed, but he was paralyzed on his left side. A character thats going to be a big part of the story is carey grayson, who was he . He was a navy doctor. He had made that his career after he finished met school, and then shortly, kathy introduced him to his successor, wilson, and and it was during the inauguration wilson sister found down, and grayson treated her and did a good job. Also, he was a very charming man, of virginia to, which helped with wilson. His role with the president s medical condition after the stroke was what . He was the white house physician. He was the one who treats him. Id say that was just everything he did was that. He called in various consultants specialists, but grayson was the one treating wilson. You told us the president was paralyzed, but what was the extent of his condition . How badly did affect . Him he had a blockage in an artery leading to his brain, this is usually not a fatal stroke. But it did immobilize him for a while. He probably would have recovered thoroughly rapidly had he not, about ten days later, suffered a second medical condition. He had prostate trouble and he had a urinary tract infection with a very high fever. Of course, they did not have antibiotics at that time. They debated whether to operate, but the specialists felt that to operate on a 62yearold man with high Blood Pressure and a stroke would have been very unwise. So they just try to let nature takes its course, and eventually he recovered. But it really zapped his vitality and his one, to punch did him in for about a month. I would think, and kristie may disagree with this, but the worst effect of the stroke on wilson was on his emotional balance. And his judgment. His intellect was not impaired, his speech was not impaired so he could function in that way. But so much more goes into being a leader, being a president than just being smart and able to do these things. Another thing is, partly because of the other illness that you just talked about. They isolated him. And that is when you keep him away from any stress or whatever, and now neurologists say that is the wrong thing to do. What you want to do with the president has had a stroke is get them back into social interaction and everything as soon as you can. So, for the best of intentions, they were doing the wrong thing. Doctor Carrie Grayson flutters are part of the collections of the Woodrow Wilson president ial library, which is in stanton, virginia. Two hours away from washington. And we visited their. Of course we are going to figure out more about the history that grayson captures in his letters. We have a letter in this box from henry morgan thaw who wanted to write a book about his experiences, so hes asking grayson if he can use certain information. He wants to use the information you gave me about president wilson, and your having come to the conclusion that he should resign. And how he was influenced by mrs. Wilson to give up this plan. So mrs. Wilson was very concerned that her husband would not get better if he did not have something to engage his mind, that he would just deteriorate if he was forced out of the presidency. While president wilson was ill, it has been speculated among historians that mrs. Wilson essentially became the president. We have one document here that sheds a little bit of light on that, and it is a telegram from henry morgan thaw, who was the ambassador to turkey. And he is writing to doctor Carrie Grayson asking if the president had any objections to a citizens meeting to protest against turks being left in control of constant in a bowl. And morgantown has been asked to speak on this, so he is asking permission, he does not want to embarrass the president. Hes asking for advice. On the bottom of the telegram, there is handwriting that we are familiar with the handwriting to recognize it as such. At the bottom she writes, think it will to postpone speaking on such subjects. What we dont know is did you did take this telegram into wilson and ask his opinion and then write that or did she just come to that conclusion herself . The public was very interested and curious to know the condition of wilsons health. So there were rumors rampant in the papers, even congressman did not know what was going on. They only knew what they knew in the papers. After it was all over, Carrie Grayson wrote a summary of what happened from the time of the stroke until wilson left the white house. And on the last page, the decision was made to announce that wilson was suffering from nervous exhaustion. There were no other details given as to what was wrong with him. Nobody knew the extent of his illness, that he really was not capable of doing anything. I, doctor grayson, not a wise to issue general statements only. Further, mrs. Wilson was absolutely opposed to any other course. They did not want to be known that he was really suffering. Again, she was protecting her husband, she wanted him to be able to fulfill his duties as president. She was worried about his legacy and she was concerned about his health. And she felt that if he left the presidency and the white house, he would just waste away and i. So don cooper, the constitution made no provision for what would happen with the president. So what did official wrestling washington do . How did they react . A couple of different ways. Robert lansing, the secretary of state would have been fired wilson had not had the stroke because they are going to have a bad break, but thats a different story. Lansing tried to get the cabinet and on it and even made some communications with the Vice President , who stayed out of it completely, you just said no. The constitution, this was before the 25th amendment that is not as much of a protection as we thought and the case. So dont talk about disability, the inability of the president to perform his duties, and what does that mean . Usually, it means the president is dead. The Vice President succeeds. But if you have a disabled president , and this is the one time that we really have had a disabled president. How do you deal with that . And edith, i have a lot of sympathy for her. She was scared. This was a very scary thing that she was in and make it up as you go along. On facebook, david welch says what part of personality or and like the best prepared mrs. Edith to take over for the president . And the responsibility that she was taking on. She had two years of former schooling in her entire life. But she had come from a numerous family and she had been chosen by her grandmother to take care of her, to be heard tara giver. And her grandmother was a very opinionated woman for and todd edith that it was good to have opinions and to make decisions. Edith had been widow to relatively young and had inherited galts jewelers, which was like to tiffanys of washington. So she kept the jewelry stored, a manager had a lot of the decisions, but she was used to having everything her way. So she brought this very decided personality. In addition, woodrow had courted her by showing her a lot of secret papers. Henry kissinger used to say that power was the ultimate aphrodisiac, and i think which wilson would have agreed. So he was using this entree to these secret papers as part of his courting and courtship. And she was susceptible to that. So he shared a great deal of what he was doing, really a great deal of what he was doing with her. So that, i think john said that, he absolutely knew as well as anyone what he was doing and what he was thinking, because he was a real lone wolf when it came to being a president. He did not have a lot of close advisers. I have a quote to show you both. Its from edith wilson herself. She had published her memoirs, and in this big controversy about how much power she took upon herself, heres what she said. I myself never made a single decision regarding the disposition of public affairs. The only decision that was mine was what was important and what was not. And the very important decision of one to present matters to my husband. Okay, so today we know the gatekeeper to the president is really the most important job. He or she who controls access to the president , to some extent, is president. And as she said, its not just who got to see him they embargoed and nobody got to see. Im but also what the president gets to see. And she would decide what was best for him to see or not. One of the wraps about edith was that shes putting her husbands health ahead of the good of the country and that our priorities were wrong, but thats not why what she did. She knew what he wanted and that if cannot express himself, she knew that he would not want to express himself, and to hang on to this. As kristie said, she knew his mind better than anybody else. So if anybody is going to have to substitute, she was the best person to do. It tiffany on Facebook Says that anyone tried to prevent tried to prevent the first lady from acting on behalf of the president. If so, what happened to them . Grayson and wilsons secretary put a kibosh on that very quickly. Well, there was the smelling. There were two senators who were detailed to come in and assess the condition of wilson because it came out when lansing went up to capitol hill that he had not spoken to the president about it, so they deputized one democrat and one republican and edith and dr. Grayson really staged managed that very well. Again, the accounts differ exactly what they did, but whatever it was, it was enormously successful. Including cinder fall, the republican who wouldve been most anxious to show that there was something wrong with wilson. He said to the press afterwards that the president grasped his hands with both of them, well that was impossible because woodrow could not move his hands. But he was so taken with wilsons apparent animation, he made a lot of jokes because that part of his thinking came back very quickly. He made putin ponds and told lots of jokes, and the judgment was what took a hit. We have a bit of a timeline as john cooper told us, the struck was in september 1990. It was not until december that the president took his first steps after the stroke, and it was in march of 1921. He left the house for the first time, and by the way, we have to talk about all of the political entry and important decisions going on in the aftermath of world war one. His beloved league of nations was rejected for the first time. In april of 1920, the president had his first cabinet meeting. How did the government continue . By routine. And also wilson was a great delegator, except in foreign affairs. Other than that, he gave his cabinet secretaries lots of leeway so they were used to running things on their own. I think it is very lucky and something of a tribute to that that the government function as well as it did. Because this is a story about edith, all during that time, what really was her role . I think one aspect of her role that has been overlooked is the extent to which she tried to make woodrow give way on some of his intransigence about the league of nations. In her memoir, which is fanciful in places, she says that she asked him to compromise with the republicans in congress to try to get the treaty passed with the league of nations. And he turn to her and say, little girl, dont you deserve me too. I love that he called her little girl, she was about five foot nine inches. She never tried to change its mind again. But we found evidence that there were two other occasions when she did try to change his mind. She and what will now be called his chief of staff had discussed some of the places where they hoped woodrow could give a little ground and where the republicans could give a little ground. They hope to find some compromise. And she took some notes very hurried, almost shorthand notes of what obviously is speech that she was going to give to wilson that wound up saying for the sake of the country and the piece of the world, please consider this. And it did not work, apparently. Because they did not change. But she was not a woman to take note on something and not do something about it. And then a little bit later she had some conversations with baker who later became his official biographer. He gave it some suggestions and some talking points to try and get wilson to change his mind. But he did not, and by that time, the republicans were hardening their lines and were reeling in the republican leadership. So donald on facebook asks if needed spoke out publicly on the league of nations, and if she did, did she support it . She did not speak out on anything. This is again to correct a big misconception of edith. I do not think she was at all power hungry for herself. She wanted what her husband wanted, his agenda was her agenda. She used to say to people, i never make speeches. She said made a few years after woodrow died, but during the time he was in the white house she was asked to present something innocuous like a bouquet of flowers and she did not even approve of woman suffrage. We need to go back in time, but for viewers, to come back to this later on. We thought youd all want to get this out, because it sets in important aspect. How did affect the role of the first lady in the constitutional issues around . It was the role of the president . Which are wilson follows Theodore Roosevelt. And those two together, one after the other maybe the president of the center of the government. The active part and even president s later who wanted to retreat to the sidelines could not do it. That is what really changed their. The first ladies role in terms of things that happened maybe ellen had more than edith did. I couldnt agree with you more. Well were not going to move into ellen wilson, not tell you how you can get him involved. The beauty of the series, and tonight is a special to our program because we have to first ladies to talk about but our phone lines will be open and you can reach us at 2025853880 if you live in and eastern or central time zones. Mountain and pacific . 2025853881. You can be part of a facebook conversation, go to cspan on facebook. And you can tweet us at first ladies or the hashtag first ladies and be part of the conversation. So we welcome your involvement as the program progresses. But were going to roll back the clock and talk about the long marriage of which wasnt to his first wife, allen. To set the stage for, that were going to visit the wilson house. You saw it in the open annex street in washington d. C. Its available for you to visit if you come to the nations capital. And inside the john room is my colleague. We are in the president Woodrow Wilson house with robert enholm, this is where the president and edith wilson live post presidency. How do they acquire the south . The movie of the day they left the white house in 1921. Theres some cost 150,000 dollars and they managed to scrape together by assembling both president wilsons winnings as the Nobel Peace Prize winner and also donation from ten of his wealthy friends and political supporters. It is wilson lift her and to her death in 1961. 1961. 40 years she lived here. She died right upstairs. Both expired in this home. In 1921 for president wilson. Even though it was edith well since house, theres the presence of allen wilson here . We try at the liberals and house to remember president wilsons years which include both and its important when considering figures of history to remember that they had childhoods and experiences that leading to both where they were. This is a painting and even as a young girl she was a good painter and enjoyed it. Even when president wilson proposed marriage to her, she said yes, but id like to go to the arts school, where she went for a year before they were web. Fog robert enholm, the story behind this patient . His last wish included that this painting laid over his casket before he was laid to rest. Were here at the wilson house, a mile from the white house, well show you more. Later edith sorry, ellen was born in georgia in 1860. Tell me about her early. Life early life was very difficult. Her father was a presbyterian minister and he had served in the civil war, but he had to leave because of some stress related conditions. He later developed a Mental Illness and that ornamental institution, possibly a suicide. Ellen was very close to her mother, but her mother died in childbirth with her fourth child when she was 43. So ellen had to take over the family. They have to take care of the father, and then after the fathers death they had to take care of her brothers and sisters. So she became a very competent manager. She was very well educated for a woman of her time and place, she would have gone to college if he had the money, when our family died, as they mentioned, he had the money to go to the Art Students League in new york for a year. And she was very unsure that she would ever meet a man who could be her intellectual equal, which she felt was necessary for her marriage. In fact, she had plans to open up boarding house for women and support it with her artwork. And people around town started calling her ellen the man hater because she was so clearly not going to be satisfied with any one in the town. The new troublesome came to town, he was a lawyer at the time. And he met her there. How important is it that thomas Woodrow Wilson where the children of ministers . Not so much the u. S. In the south but will this is true of wilson as it is of allen but it did not make them essential. But they could take it for granted. But of the two of them, because but for the various troubles, this person really ran in the family. One brother, eddie, who died tragically was the only one who wasnt touched by depression. So ellen met metaphysically in artistically, she was more religious. Hes interested in the affairs of the world, but he is so easily smitten with women. He falls. And this is an important characteristic of his personality that you write about. Well, yes. He knew instantly that he loved his women. And women play a important part and his biography. What do you understand about how women and his psychology and the role that they play with him . I wish i could say that he was a man of great enlightenment and forward looking views. He wasnt. It wasnt bad though. By the standards of that time, he did come so well as having believing strongly that women are very bright and capable. Generally, he still likes the subordinate role. Basically, he just liked women. And more so than any man of that time. He enjoyed the company have been very much but he just annually enjoyed the company of women enjoy their intellectual companionship. But he so passionate. Hes very passionate and eloquent. So when he married those two traits and the letters that he wrote to allen after they were engaged are just the most astonishing love letters you will ever see. And she was quite eloquent to. Some of the love letters of Woodrow Wilson to alan are preserved at princeton universitys manuscript library. Well learn about those next. Here on the shelves are the correspondence between woodrow and allen. Their love letters, really. It has to be the largest collection of love letters exchanged between any future president and future first lady. In fact, these letters were sealed in the trunk when the wilsons move to the Prospect House, and the trunk was not open until the 1960s. So its a time capsule shedding extraordinary light on the wilsons life together. Woodrow is living in baltimore, going to Johns Hopkins, and he writes to ellen in january of 1894, my own darling, when you come into my study and kiss me as i sit at my desk it is awe how this attachment of yours to me seems part of the force of my mind. Darling, i trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. You are the presiding genius of both my mind and heart and in that fact insists the happiness and the strength of your own woodrow. You see the extent to he loved allen, but acknowledged in this clear way is intellectual debt to her. How many cases can you say that . The first lady and husband, that he is stepping forward and saying i acknowledge that you are the source of so much, not only of my happiness, but of my intellectual development. You introduced me to literature, to work worth, to browning. They would sit together on the campus in front of nasa hall and reeds work rift together sitting in the grass. He acknowledges this profoundly Important Role that ellen plays and his life. She writes back to woodrow and says to him, how can i thank you dearest for the sweet things you say in todays letter . How happy it makes me that you think such things of me, even when i feel, with a heartache, how sadly unworthy i am of it all. I trust it is not wrong to worship you as i do. I question if its wrong to breathe, both our navigable of five to live at all, four i am in every breath, altogether, your own, ellen. Often, she doesnt respond to him as passionately as he writes to her because she does tend to be a bit melancholy. But theres an exuberance that is really delightful. Alam was so devoted to him, you can sense how he puts herself second to his needs, again and again throughout their life and thats the conception as weijia wilsons wife, and as she is dying in the white house that tragic summer of august 1914 with the world about to enter into a Great International convulsion with world war i about to break out, she is dying in the white house and to graft the hand of dr. Grayson and whispered to him, doctor, if i go away, promised me that you will take good care of my husband. Kristie, it might be hard to answer this question, but how do we rank to love between this love between all president ial couples . I have not made a thorough study, but it will be hard to come up to their level and i pointed out this line in arthur links of which are wilsons letters. Arthur wink was the greatest wilson scholar that ever was or ever will be. And he edited the papers of which are wilson. And in the volume that covers august 1914, the editors are in the introduction to this, with editors bid a fond farewell to ellen wilson when we have all come. Its over these years that they can affect them this much. He asked allen to marry him five months after meeting him. She must have quickly measured his heart. So they got married win . They got married two years later. He had had a girlfriend before and she had refused his offer of marriage, so once burned, twice shy. She decided that she was going to propose to ellen just before getting on the train to go to baltimore and attend Johns Hopkins in political science. If she refused him, there would be no awkward lingering, he later said. So they had met each other by chance in this town were none of them lived, they were just staying for a couple of days to meet the family. But when he proposed to her, she was so starter hurled that she blurted out, yes,. She had a meant to but she blurted this out and they had hardly known each other. But he was going off to study for two years. So they had a twoyear engagement because they did not know each other, it was this marvelous letter the which they became intimate. Mary kaye is watching us from california. First question by phone. Youre on the air. Thank you for the series. Im loving every minute. I was wondering what first lady and the president thought of the tickets in front of the white house in 1917. This would be back to edith. They were very indignant, especially edith was very indignant. She thought they were rude and at one point woodrow offered to have them come into the white house and get warm and half hot coffee and they indignantly refused. As i said before, it didnt do not believe in suffrage for women, so she thought all of this was quite foolish. There were two suffered organizations and one of the most trying to go about amending the constitution and by a state by state way. In other words, have suffered past in the various states and then get more people in congress who support it. So woodrow received the members of the national association, and also womens suffers association. Some people believed it was the extremism of the National Moments party that allow the more conservative group to make progress because they were seen as a lot less threatening. Will come back to the early years with allen and the life of our politics, but he was the only president moving the presidency of university politics. How does he get to princeton and how did you get to the presidency . And princeton had significant ties to the church, but it was still a significant school. Princeton was the place to go. It was a step out from the south to. Up into the world. So he went there is an undergrad in the studied law briefly, went to hopkins as christie was saying. Taught his first teaching job at brendan maher. Ellen objected to the modern women but he went back to princeton 1890. He became the most popular professor there. Basically, he was one of two really real stars of the faculty. And there were some increase among the trustees and everything to get him to the presidency, but he was chosen president in 1902. And then he tried to reform princeton and succeeded a bit, but failed quite a bit and really got stymied when the new jersey bosses came along and offered the nomination to the governorship. He took it from them and then immediately became a reformer. A lot of things made him a front runner quite early, so he made a remarkable transition. In two years he went from a University President to govern of new jersey . To being president. The governorship was very effective. Wilson is one of the people with the exception of the law which his heart was never in. He succeeded at everything he did. He was one of the great political scientists, a great scholar and great University President. He was the best known president of his time, ranked among the best governors and hes one of the best president s to. But he went to princeton to practice law because it was difficult to do much else, and is it true that the families knew each other and the Children Play together . I dont know about the Children Playing together, but they knew each other. We are going to show you Prospect House, the house that the wilsons lived in on the princeton campus. It was the president s house today, use for social functions. Were going to learn about ellen and Woodrow Wilsons Political Partnership and how it developed. This is the study at fox spectacles, and it looked very much as it did when woodrow an ellen wilson lift here. This wouldve been Woodrow Wilsons office. His desk wouldve been right here and he would have met with students, faculty, University President s, visiting people from around the world and is here that ellen wilson was highly involved with Woodrow Wilsons career. When he was up for a post in industrial university, he suggested that was a bad career move. He was a tremendous help to him behind the scenes throughout his academic career. I found in this room, the study at Prospect House so evocative because its right here that we can see Woodrow Wilson making that transition from academic figure to political figure. Ellen wilson helped with all of this, constantly advising woodrow, helping him out, and then he decides to run for governor and the reporters descend on prospect. The reporters descend on the study. They photograph him on the garden and elon wilson is quite alarmed. She begins to sense that she is going to lose any privacy she might have had. Shes going to lose that carefully constructed close knit home life that she could value. Thats going to slip away. They moved in as a young academic couple, full of dreams and ambitions. When she leaves Prospect House, and, frankly theyre almost driven out by the trustees in 1910. When she leaves, shes bitter. Shes exhausted, and what awaits her is this political life that is going to take a tremendous toll on her, personally, in terms of her exhaustion, in terms of her energy and psychologically. As his supportive spouse, how did her responsibilities changed as she moved from University President s wife to the first lady of new jersey and then ultimately into the white house . She was building on each of the things that she had done before. She had been involved in a small way with social outreach during the time that she was a private person, and then when she became first lady of new jersey, she became very interested in social welfare. She actually took woodrow on a tour through new jersey to look at state welfare institutions like the home for the insane or the prisons. So she had an early record of activism among social welfare groups. She also, of course, had to do a great deal of entertaining during the dinner that was given after Woodrow Wilsons inauguration in 1902. She invited booker to washington to the parlor of her southern and, this great African American educator. She had a great deal entertaining to do as the president s wife, more when she moves into the Governors Mansion and at that point, they were down in the summer home. They did not have a Governors Mansion but the state of new jersey supplied a summer home down in new jersey. A little boy got lost and wondered in and came out afterwards and was asked did you meet the governor . What was a role in the campaign in 1912 . I dont think she did a lot in the campaign. That was interesting about the campaign. She was the first future first lady to go on a campaign before the convention. She went down through the south, especially in georgia where she was hailed as much as she was. Unfortunately, they lost georgia. They did not get the delegates from georgia. And she had a hand in trying to get woodrow to patch up relations with Williams Jennings brian would win the democratic nominee, kind of the leader of the democratic party. John was very keen in helping woodrow get the nomination. She saw an opportunity. Wilson had come from a different wing of the party and had said some things about brian that some of his enemies had publicize to try to make trouble and she saw a chance. Allen saw a chance to mend fences there. She brought them together and they hit it off very well. They had a great relationship, right down to some of the unfortunate stuff from world war i. So she is playing the same kind of role that she played in the academic career. A very shrewd tactician, a very good facilitator. Not out in front, not out in public. She did not vertically like that role either. But she was awfully shrewd. It was Theodore Roosevelt talents to his own party by forming a Bull Moose Party that is put the republicans and helped bring Woodrow Wilson into the white house. If you had to in capitalize his political philosophy, what was it . Woodrow wilson . He called himself a progressive democrat. And he really believe, he believed a strong government, but it was a government to make it possible for people to do things for themselves. He said i dont want a big government, i dont want a governor that can take care of me, i want to government that will make sure that other people take their hands off of me so that i can take care of myself. I think it is updated liberalized. The individuals happiness, the individual Self Realization is the great contrast with Theodore Roosevelt. That campaign of 1912 i think is the best weve ever had by far. Because what you get is really a debate of political philosophies between these two men. Lee is watching us from california. Hello. Thanks for taking my call. I have a question about the alley villa that was so important to alan wilson, and its such a wonderful thing for the city of washington d. C. , and id also like to comment on edith wilson. She was more of a hindrance than i help. A major adviser to the president wrote numerous letters during and they were not discovered, unopened until after her death. Thanks for your call. Well let her comment about edith stand, but just about islands ali bill. What was that . When they came to the white house, ellen felt that, as long as she was in the white house, not a place that he wanted to be she would use her position to do as much good as she could. She connected with a group called the National Civics federation that had been around for ten years or so and they were very interested in trying to clean up these little alleyways in between the biggest streets of washington, where there was tumble down shacks, great squalor, they want to tear down all of these buildings and what we would now call urban renewal. Allen was so interested in this project that she took some of the congressmans car through the alleyways to show them the conditions of these houses that were right behind the capitol. And she lobbied them to pass a bill that would enable this, because washington government was run by congress. They did not have their own government. So she was the first first lady to lobby for a cause that was not her husband outside of the white house. She was very effective at doing this and i dont know if you want to talk about all of what happened here. Welcome back to the story because it was connected to her passing. She arrived at the white house and decide to have an inaugural ball. Why is that . Its because of ellen. Ellen was a commercialization and something frivolous in what should be a solemn occasion. She was a very thrifty woman. She did not make a lot of money, and somebody once said that wilson looks sweeter every year in that round dress because she never had gotten close. She prided herself on being 50 and she thought the inauguration, the inaugural balls were frivolous. Militant is watching us. In new york, does often mention of the wilson girls in society. Can you tell us a bit about their growing up and entering adulthood . Three dollars to the white house . They were all roughly marriageable age, so they go to balls and parties, ellen is on record as saying that she does not approve of modern dances like the turkey trot, but somebody else writes and says that its a very wonderful gossipy wife of the congressman. She kept a diary and said that they were turkey trotting with the best of them. So she tried to keep the rain on her daughters and did you get married in the white house, and considering she was only having a big wedding for our first daughter, who was married in november. She she had a very small, quiet waiting for her third daughter, who got married in may. Very shortly before ellen was bed ridden. Chad is in baltimore, europe next. Hello. Hello, after ellen wilson passed away and before Woodrow Wilson married edith galt its, a true that his daughter margaret became the de facto first lady during the time between the death of her mother and her fathers second marriage . She was the official hostess. One of woodrows cousins also helped her out in this. Margaret did not want to be the official hostess. She wanted to be a singer. And she preferred to go to new york, which is where she felt there were more opportunities to be a singer. So i think the two of them tried to cope with the social duties and the social season was curtailed. I think on the advice of allens social secretary, she felt that there had been a president s during the Harrison Administration when his wife had died they curtailed the social season. So there wasnt too much entertaining that market had to do. Despite her short tenure in the white house, Elaine Wilson also brought us as a nation the foam us rose garden. We learn more about that in our next video. We are in prospect garden here in princeton, new jersey. This is a garden that ellen wilson originally designed when she was a resident of Prospect House from 1902 to 1910. Here, we see the full expression of allens esthetic division. She is an oil painter, very confident. She knows a lot of the american impressionist painters of the day. She loves to paint landscapes. As a corollary to that, she lays out this extraordinarily beautiful garden here at Prospect House. She plans the cedar trees. She plants roses and all kinds of flowers. In fact, she loves this garden so much that she hates to leave it when the wilsons inter politics and leave princeton. When ellen wilson is in the white house, she brings the white house garden back here to this garden bed, and she says to the white house gardner, lets recreate the rose section of this carton at the white house. Because ellen wilson could look out of her bedroom window and prospect mansion, she could look down and see the flowers all day. Similarly, she wanted the president of the United States to be able to see rhodes has when he looked out of his window in the white house. Of course, this becomes a famous rose garden at the white house. Ellen tragically does not live to see the rose garden completed. However, shes dying in the summer of 1914. Shes wheeled out into the space outside in her wheelchair and watch as the gardner works, but she doesnt look to see the completion of this vision she had four roses blooming at the white house. And thats a vision that really begins here at prospect garden in princeton alan wilson did not live to see it, but she brought us the rose garden, which has become part of our national lexicon. So often, president ial events are held in the rose garden. Heres a photograph of what it looked like during the wilson administration, and heres what the rose garden looks like today. And her short tenure in the white house, we have a list of things of things he did during the 17 months. We talked about the alley clearance bill. We talked about the rose garden. And the fact that he was a professional artist. One of the first lady who brought her own profession to the white house. How significant was that but . I dont think it really set a standard for future first ladies. Ellen did earn money from selling her paintings that she donated to charity that she had set up for her brother and the memory of her brother who had died. The only other first lady who earned money while she was in the white house was Eleanor Roosevelt. That did not become a first lady tradition and just as well. Next is harry in california. Youre on the air, welcome to our conversation. Hello. Yes, thank you for taking my call. I have enjoyed your show very much, this is my second time calling. The last time i called, it was during the first season when you were talking about the two wives, so i enjoy your show so far. So, my question is about Woodrow Wilsons first wife alan. When she passed away, where was she buried and when her husband passed away, he was interned in the Washington Cathedral in washington d. C. , and was his first wife bodies reenter to be very next to him . And, also, where was his second wife buried when she passed away . Thank you. The answer to that, the question is was ellen reentered with woodrow, the answer is no. She was buried in the family plot in rome, georgia. When woodrow died, edith was pretty determined that he was not going to be buried with allen, and then the choice was. Hed been a president of princeton and the president s apparent ten are buried down there. But there had been some ill feeling and still was, so that was out. In the meantime, a very ambitious bishop of washington, mr. Freeman wanted to get famous people buried in the cathedral. So, we have gotten admiral dewy and they were still very new and upending. So she approached edith about this and she like the idea. Freeman wanted to make the cathedral westminster abby and i was told that William Howard tafts granddaughter told him that when taft heard about this, he said dont let those body snatchers at the cathedral get me. But i think this was wonderful. This presbyterian president is buried in an episcopal cathedral, and it has varied with him. What she sick the entire time that she was in the white house . You saw some of the pictures of her leaving princeton and even being in princeton shed first developed any trouble in 1889 when her third child was born. And the wilson cited at that time to have no more children, the used Birth Control so she probably had been suffering from Kidney Disease for quite some time before she had gotten to the white house. Diagnose is something called brides disease. Thats an archaic term that means the new disease. I dont think they had a sophisticated test as we do now, although i was impressed that they were able to diagnose it as early as 1889. Peter roosevelts first wife also died of rights disease, Kidney Disease. They died quite early in which one ellen had been married for quite some time. Dana mccarthy wants to know, did what youre goals and became consumed with illness and did it affect his performance as president . Not until the very end, consumed not until the very end, but it was kept secret from her. Yes, so that was ellens wish to. I think everybody was in denial. I dont think ellen knew how sick she was, i think she was hoping she would get better. Doctors said she would get better. The doctors were in denial so i dont think woodrow really knew that she was dying until the day that she died. Those last days of hers when he was at her sick bed every single minute. And the world is falling apart, with world war i. And hes having to deal with that. Its a terrible thing. Holly wants to know, was very public funeral for ellen wilson . She asked that on facebook. They had a funeral in rome, georgia. And out of the church where woodrow had met her. The townspeople were there, but there wasnt a state funeral here in washington. There was a little ceremony in the white house. And we are already finished our first hour, i told you this will go by so quickly. Those Great Stories to tell. But heres our guest, john coopers biography of Woodrow Wilson, if we can show it on the screen here. And what i wanted to do as we close out here, actually, mr. Cooper is open it up inside and read this paragraph, just a bit of it where you talk about her contributions to him. Ellens death dealt him a cruel blow. For more than 30 years, ellen had been his closest, why this adviser. She had exercised a stronger influence over him than anyone else. She really let her family inherited disposition to depression affect him or his daughters. She had forgiven his infatuation with mrs. Cracker story. She was a far better man for her gifts. And she had in columbus more in the world scholarship, in education, politics and government then he couldve gone without her, and she knew it. So is it fair to say that without ellen, there would not have been a president usual since . Absolutely. This man blossoms. He met her just as he is about to depart for Johns Hopkins. Hed been playing around with the law, tr ing to write, trying o find himsel. And love concentra ed his mind wonderfull. I mea, its extraordinar. His two years at h pkins, hes either writin these letters to her long, involved, wonderful l tters, and writing his fir t book and best book, congre sional government. Its a and then all along as christie said, it is advice to him and how to handle it. Listen, any academic would love to have a male academic would love to have ellen as a wife. And conversely the other way around. She was such a help, such a support. She was such a terribly shrewd advisor. And such an emotional support to him. We have quite a debate raging about Woodrow Wilsons legacy on the tractors and supporters on our facebook page, so whether you loved him or hated him, ellen wilsons basic contribution was getting that man to the white house. Absolutely. What happened after her death . Are we going to talk a little bit more about the alley bill . Sure, because thats part of the closing days of her life. The day that she is dying she tells her chief of staff, joe timidly, to go to congress and say she will die more easily if they will just pass an alley bill. And the Senate Takes Action in time for her to learn about it before she loses consciousness for the last time. The house passes it later, but it is never implemented because of world one breaking out. They dont have the money and they need all the houses they can get. This whole issue is dropped until 1933. There was a young woman whose husband was in the wilson administration, assistant secretary of the Navy Franklin delaware roosevelt. Eleanor roosevelt went to the white house many times and met ellen wilson. It was said that nobody could move in Polite Society unless they could talk ali. She made this whole issue fashionable. The first week that Eleanor Roosevelt was in the white house, she went back to the National Civic federation women, the same women that had worked with ellen wilson, and she began to lobby for an hourly bill. As we know she lobbied for many different causes but i firmly believe that ellen set an example to eleanor, and that eleanor of course, set an example to many first ladies who came after her. I keep wanting to move on, but there are so many questions to ask. One of the interesting debates that appeared on our facebook page, wood will wilsons attitude towards African Americans. Here was ellen wilson reaching out to the plight of poverty stricken African Americans in washington d. C. Did she influence Woodrow Wilson . And what were his views on the race issue . First of all, as much as you could tell i love ellen just as much as those as voters did, that being said. She was the southern woman. I dont think we could honestly say that she believed in the quality of African Americans. She was a wonderful warm, loving person. But i think African Americans occupied their place. And this is in a maternal a stick way that she does want to help there. And its also the beautify washington. That is not just to be helpful. His own views, i think, is having grown up in the south really has less to do with his views there. The wilson administrations record on race is bad, simply bad. He allowed his southern cabinet secretaries to attempt to introduce segregation into the federal workplace. They made stabs at it. They newly formed and acp protested it. They backed off, they did it informally but it is still bad. Theres that very unfortunate incident of showing the birth of a nation movie in the white house, which grew way out of proportion as to what actually happened there. And that was during the time of edith as the first lady . No, thats in this interest them. That shortly before he met edith. And thats a worst time of the wilsons life, except for the stroke. Because he was devastated by ellens death. The man was a bad, bad shape emotionally. So when Gary Robinson asked on twitter, did woodrow give any political bump or political passes on bills or issues because of it is that . Was he even thinking about the affairs of state . Yes, he was. Peace and thats what held him together. He had to do this. He had to be president. He had to Pay Attention to these things. Otherwise i think the man could really have deteriorated badly there. If he had just been on his own. So his presidency was his crutch. His attitude to me, i think he is very much like a white northerners, not a white southerner, a white northerners. White northerners at this time wanted race to go away. You know, its kind of just problems with the blocks down in the south. And booker tea washington, you know will make progress. A bit of a benign neglect. Wilson is more like. That the southerners were absolutely obsessed with it. They were going to want to make sure that blacks are in their place, who want to push things like segregations. Wilsons here i think more sins of omission. Before we leave ellen wilsons life we have this well populated website, we cspan. Org slash first lady. And its filled with all the video and all the programs weve done so far in the series. Each week wheels have a special feature that is attach the first lady. This week it is on ellens artwork. If you go to the website and you want to learn more about her artwork, look at one of her paintings that was on display while she was the first lady, there is our featured item this week on first ladies at the cspan. Org website. I also want to tell you about one other research the, partners for this entire serious is the White House Historical socialization. They have for many years published this biographer series pending first ladies. It is a special version of it. We worked with them to publish it and make it available to you, that same website has the link. We are selling this hardcover book at 12 dollars 95 cents at cost. You can learn more about these woman. Theres a short biography of each of them inside, and will get it to just as quickly as you can see colored little bit more about these women before we do the programs and the rest of the series. As we look at it were going to listen to layton in rome, georgia. Is that her birthplace . That yes and her brother euro. Place you are on the air. I would like to say that rome, georgia is watching tonight. We are the hometown of ellen wilson and we are very excited that you are doing program tonight especially on ellen. Kristie miller has graciously accepted our invitation to come to room, as we celebrate not only the life but also the heart of ellen wilson beginning in august of 2014. It is kind of interesting that 1914 rome, georgia raised 10,000 dollars for ellens home coming back to rome. Unfortunately her untimely death prevented roam from having this homecoming. In 2014, we will be marking the 100th anniversary of the homecoming that never occurred. Thank you very much for your call and for your towns special connection. We are glad to have folks in rome watching us tonight. Any final comments on ellen before we move on the eve . No. So he was devastated, but we talked about his connection with women and his love of having women in his life. He was a widow president. So lots of women were probably interested in him. And how did he approach this period of his life when he was with or . I dont think there was a great rush of women to meet him. But his doctor was very concerned about it. He thought that a friend of his, edith cult, might be somebody that would cheer him up. And so he arranged for helen who is serving as his officials to go walking with edith. Helen was having some Health Problems and he thought it would benefit her to go walking with this nice hearty and vigorous woman. They took a number of walks together and that led to a meeting in the white house between edith and woodrow. They were immediately drawn to each other, just like with alan, he quickly fell in love and very quickly proposed to her. This edith galt was from virginia. Here is a map where you can see it about 300 miles away from washington d. C. We visited there in preparation for the series. You will see it next. This is the birthplace and childish home of edith galt, it looks much like when the boeings lived here from 1866 to 1899. Originally, in 18 forties this was two houses. They were join together which connected the upstairs bowling home, the downstairs was used as retail space. The upstairs was the home of the bowlings. This is the original front door to the bowling home. This is where the family would have entered, let me take you. Inside. This is the birth room of Edith Bolling wilson, he was the seventh of 11 children born to the bolling family. She was one of over 20 family members that lived upstairs in the home. Two of the most interesting pieces that we have our the cradle, the cradle that belonged to the bolling family. The cradle that their children would have slept in. The other piece is a child chair that we knew was actually up here in the home. We can imagine all the bolling children sitting in the chair. The cover is original, we are so pleased that it has been recovered over the years. This is the bedroom of the grandmother bolling. Can we know that Edith Bolling wilson slept in the room with her grandmother. Her grandmother was an invalid and had back problems and she was quite spoiled by her grandmother. She was her favorite. But along with that came the responsibility of being her caregiver. This was the back sleeping porch. This is where edith would gather with her family and they would enjoy evenings together. I think one of my favorite pictures is one of young edith at age 13. Shes actually sitting on a stool in this corner, she has her books in her lap. We are very fortunate to have this picture of her. We see what shes dressed like. We see her books, we see how her hair is fixed. We see her in a place where she was very comfortable and spent a lot of of time as a young girl. This is the library of her father judge bolling. Each parent sent her to washington d. C. To keep her away from this older gentleman who is wishing the quarter. They sent her to her sister in washington, d. C. There she met and married her first husband norman, it really changed her life. And there we learn more about the early life of. What did his daughter who served as hostess think of his new wife Edith Bolling wilson. I think his daughters were very happy to see his father married again, because he was in deep despair, they were very worried about him. So they were happy. They were among the happiest people in washington about the marriage. What about the president about his cabinet . They tried to keep it out of the press as long as they. Could the reactions in cabinets were mixed. Mainly, they were worried about the political fallout. Were getting beyond the old Victorian Convention that whittled people of either jenner shouldnt remarry. We got a bit beyond that, but they shouldnt remarry soon. You know theres the old phrase, a decent interval of time. How do you define that . Thats the longer the better, perhaps. Clearly, for the president to be courting and to want to marry again so quickly. A lot of them worried about it. Several of them tried to hatch something to warn him off there. And that backfired very badly. By the way, edith took an instant to like to colonel house, this advisor of wilsons. And wilson patched it up sort of and had them get together, but i dont think house ever realized what an enemy he made with edith wilson. And he had something to do with this too. Lets take a call from karlyn carroll to, georgia. Thank you for taking my call. I just heard the gentleman say that there was a bit of dissension beating colonel house in edith. Was this personal differences . Colonel house apparently had living quarters in the white house. Was he commanding too much from the president time as far as it was concerned, or where their political differences . House did not have living quarters in the white house. He spent a lot of time there but no, he didnt have living quarters there. There is a bit of both. Edith, wilson coordinate the widow. She ate it up she admits in her memoir that this was a good bit of her attraction to wilson. She was attracted to him to, personally. But this made him much more glamorous figure to her. So shes going to be the advisor. I think a lot of, from the very beginning to her is that house is just, you know she just wanted to get him out of the way. House was concerned. How saw wilson as this very valuable property to manage and keep healthy and keep in power. He was worried about the effect on this. He very quickly backed off when he saw how determined wilson was to marry edith. He turned tail very quickly. He tries to make up to her a lot, but she masked her dislike of how house was up until the peace conference. He proposes very soon after. She says, no. I think you hardly know me. Theres this wonderful quote that most biographers referred him talking about how time is compressed in the white house. He said time is much quicker here than it is on the outside. And i hate to call a ploy, but one fact that he pointed out to all three of the women that he was involved with, was that he needed them so much. It was a really genuine need. He often said that he couldnt do is work unless he was assured of their love. So, that was definitely one of the things that he said to it if. And she responded, to know that you have needed me is very sweet. And that was another successful courtship tactic. And although she refused him the first time, two months later he proposed again and she accepted. As i recall the refusal, wasnt that what women were supposed to do . But as you say, she was taken unawares. That was the convention. Perhaps it was. And then of course the guy comes back but she had every right to turn him down convention or no convention. They knew each other about six weeks. I must say, we both read all that correspondence there, im impressed that ediths refusal sole look to be pretty proforma. But she was going to accept this guy. One of my favorite quotes is from a secret service man who said, the lady was retreating, but how fast and with what intention we dont know . He would go over to her house, and spend the evening there and then he would sometimes break into a dance walking back to the white house. Im trying to take the president in their isolation today and project a president going to date at this womans house in washington. It was a different era. Clearly a different era. Clearly because theyre such a fanaticism about baseball in this town, their first public date was to a baseball game. Wilson was great baseball fan. He played. He never played on the college, well he played at the college tina davidson. Its the First College he went to. And he certainly was a great fan of princeton. Hes a tremendous baseball fan. And that is the part first public appearance together. That photo of her just beginning, that is when she turns into a political asset for him. We have to move on because our time is going to evaporate. From caitlin on twitter, what did the general population think of wilson remarrying so quickly . Fortunately, it was not as hi advisers fear, to the public loved it. They went on a tour about six weeks after they were married to drum up interest and preparedness in case america got into the war. She was seen as a great asset, the press love heard, the crowds really loved her. They love the idea of the two them still essentially being on their honeymoon. It was a great Public Relations asset. Throughout this program weve been taking to the wilson house, the place where the first couple lived after they left the white house. We will return there right now. And we are currently in the dining room about president Woodrow Wilsons house, about a mile from the white house. Standing guard over the dining room is an official white house portrait of edith wilson painted, finished in october of 1920. So nearly 93 years old. Bob is the director here at the house. What can you tell us about the dress that she is wearing in this portrait . We know president wilson in his second term presented a vision of the world at peace, and a plan for achieving that vision. He couldnt find a better mate and energetic and dynamic and strong edith wilson. I think in this portrait, this is not a 19th century portrait, she is wearing a dress that to say the least is fashion forward for the 1920s. At her waist is approach executed by leak in france. It was a gift to her from france when shes at the peace conference in 1919. Some of the other artifacts from the white house yours is set here at the table. You have the play setting. This is the place setting of the wilson china. Eat it had a hand in this awning. This will some of the 19th century china relied on botanical designs, youll see here patriotic symbols consistent with the nation at war. Theres a funny story, and im sure that historians can tell about this, when it was learning how to ride a bicycle in the basement of the white house, the china was stacked. Theyre one of the reasons they created the china room, which she created was so that she could have room to ride the bicycle without crashing into the china. You also have an outfit for the first lady. Remember that president wilson was the first president to go to europe. But edith wilson was the first lady to go to the europe as first lady. It was important to her to figure out how she should comport herself in meeting kings and queens and also heads of state. She brought the suit at the house of worth in paris. Let me show some of the detail. The lining is really spectacular, gives you some sense about the level of detail about the clothing that she purchase. President wilson lived here for about three years after he left the white house. Was there a purposeful effort to make this house like the white house because of his stroke . Very much so. And that was part of the this doing as well, she thought he would be more comfortable in his setting which he understood, where things were and so on. When they put togethers bedroom it emulated the white house bedroom down to the detail of getting the lincoln bet that he had enjoyed and building replica. Here the next time you come back to us we will be in the. Library thank you very much and a reminder that the wilson house is available for public tour. It is hard to boil down important things that went on a couple of pages, but we will try to do it, during the wilson presidency the 17th amendment to the constitution which called for direct election of the seven dollars was passed, major tariff bill that was so much an important debate in this country, the Federal Reserve act, i can tell you where Facebook Community is talking a lot about that, the role of the federal trade commission, its function was also created then of course there was the war. The u. S. Declaring war on germany after the sinking of the loose italia, after the war Woodrow Wilson winning the nobel priess rise. Also during his presidency the 18th amendment bringing prohibition and the 19th amendment we as we talked about calling for women suffrage. What was ediths role in this period of time, legislatively, public affairs, how involved was she in the substance of what he was doing . I would say very little. She did not have ellens understanding of these things. He liked to show her the papers, but mostly what she would do is kind of get all fired up and say, i think you should put this note to germany more strongly or you should put this note to the secretary of state more strongly. And he liked her to be fiery. He encouraged that. But she really didnt have any understanding. It was very funny because a lot of people thought that she had influenced him to lobby as he finally did for women suffrage. But that was not the case. She didnt approve of woman suffrage. So i wouldnt say she had any effect on his legislation. He did not support the 18th amendment, he did not like prohibition. He vetoed the implementation which was then passed over his veto. How difficult was it for him to bring the u. S. Into world war i . Very. He said we went to war after the sinking, but it was two years after. The sinking of the lucid hany and was a great wake up call as to how we might be involved in the war it really is not that comparable to pearl harbor and 9 11. That type of shocking event. But it is almost two years where it is the struggle to get the germans not to sink ships and kill people in the seas. Yet not to get involved in the war, he actually got the germans to back down for a while. The election in 1916 was during this lull in foreign affairs. Legislation that kept us out of war which was great, yes, but it was that he kept it out of war in mexico. The war in europe had receded at that point. And then the germans reopens the submarine warfare and that was a very difficult struggle. He actually unburden himself confidentially to a newspaper editor, frank cobb of the new york world. He predicted all the terrible consequences that would happen in this country if we went into the war. It is the most eloquent case against going into the war which comes from a man who decided to take us in. How would you answer sheldon on twitter who asked which wife provided more political clout . I think it was ellen. Ellen was really involved. She lobbied, we spoke of the tariff bill she read it. She lobbied for having reduced duty on books and art supplies. And when it was actually passed you celebrated. It meant a lot to her. I dont really think either of them had a great deal to do with it. Ellen had more than edith. David is in her hometown of virginia, nice to have you on the line. Im just calling to thank you especially for this segment on edith and the birthplace museum. And wed like to invite your viewers to visit and join us in efforts to restore her birthplace and childhood home. But my question is, when mrs. Wilsons visited europe how she received by royalty of europe and also can you tell us a little bit about her relationship to pocahontas and other notable virginia families . She is a direct descended of pocahontas. It was something that was played up a great deal on the newspapers and even by the newspapers in europe when she went over there. I forgot what was the other part of the question . How she was received in europe. They were received joyously when they went over there. They looked too wilson to be a savior. And even with wrote home and said she felt like cinderella. They stayed at buckingham palace, they received by the king of italy. There were thousands and thousands of people greeting them in paris. It was a magical time for. Her heres a question, between edith an ellen which had the greater influence on America Today . Id say ellen. Although edith had to handle a country in a crisis of president ial disability. And i think she has set a pattern of how not to do it. It was a coverup. And it was on one of the segments that said grayson really acted ony this orders, said were not going to admit he had a stroke. They never admitted that. One of his consulting physicians let it slip out of the bag later. But the white house never admitted that. In some ways, this uncertainty about what the president s condition was, i think it really contributed to the kind of the political downfall that comes. Justin from indiana, youre on. Thank you for taking my call. My question is how was edith received in the time leading up to remarriage to president wilson by the media . Did she get the Princess Diana reception or more of the Rachael Jackson reception . Thank you. They really tried to keep it very quiet. And the announcement was made at the beginning of october. They got married in the middle of december. They really only had to endure the attention of the press for about two months. And again, it was a very very different time. And nobody was expected to get out there diana style and be fodder for the press with. Wouldnt you say, i was interested that the caller talked about rachel jackson. There was an undercurrent though of a little bit of scandal or wherever that he was involved with this woman. There were several scandals, one of which we havent really addressed, but Woodrow Wilson was involved with another woman during the time he was married ellen. He met marry alan colbert peck in 1907. By a 19 awaits, he had scrambled on a little note somewhere, my precious one, my beloved mary. I dont think he sent it tour but he was just venting his feelings. Ellen was very upset. She accused him of emotional love for this woman, but she tolerated mary and try to protect woodrow from the scandal. There was still some scandal and Theodore Roosevelt was invited during the 1912 election to make use of it. Somebody said that they had letters between woodrow and mary, and although they were never as ardent as his letters to ellen had been, they were certainly compromising. Roosevelt said no, that would be wrong. And also that nobody would believe him. People say that was very noble of Theodore Roosevelt, but he said, i cant believe that somebody who looks like the apothecarys clerk could be romeo. So no he said its not going to work. You doing the best imitation. Momentous time, the United States enters world war i. What happens in the white house in terms of their social, theyre entertaining, what did she do to support the war effort . Thats an important part of her story. Pour edith gets pitched into the white house in the middle of the war, in the middle of his term without any preparation whatsoever. She really rose to the occasion. She was very popular with the press because of ellens ill health. The press had not been very taken with her. Some edith have the doubly trying situation of having to have two receptions because she couldnt have all the warring ambassadors with each other. So she had to have a party for the allies and a party for the central powers. She was really terrific, everybody was impressed with her good, Firm Handshake and very impressed with our sense of style, no poor little brown deaf dress for edith. She was a wealthy washington socialite and she was a business executive. I wouldnt say she was a socialite, because her business was in trade, that was not the best of washington society, so there was a certain amount of dubiousness about that. But as john said there were scandals also about the extent to which she and would world had been intimate. Later on, she makes a big pro trust, an International Scandal really out of it. Out of refusing to accept the designated british ambassador, because his assistant was telling naughty stories about them. Back to the wilson house on this street in washington d. C. And we are in the library in the wilson house with bob who is executive director. You can see some of the artifacts in this room from the wilsons. There are a couple things in here that are very related to edith and woodrow. Can you tell us what this is on the desk . Here weve displaced the plan that was used to sign the declaration of war in 1917. It was eat at wilsons pen. And weve been discussing on the program that eat it was very much with the president participated in his lip deliberations on a variety of issues. When the declaration of war was passed by congress and brought to the conch white house residence, the president was with edith and not near panned of his own. She offered one of hers to sign that historic document. We have that here. It is known that eat it was part of the president s regular routine and dealing with policy issues and the business of government. Every day after dinner, they would retire to the office that was in the white house, can go through what he called his drawer. I think that was an inbox. And we have a box like that here. You can see this is a box and has a lock and key where the president s important papers could be delivered and then he could go through them. The president and mrs. Wilson would go through the newspapers together. It was her habit to put them in order while he was reviewing one, she would be reviewing the others. They would decipher together coded messages. Its interesting that this lays the groundwork for her role later as steward of the presidency when the president was disabled. Our guest back on the set have been talking about edith an ellen wilson, what do you think of the legacy of edith wilson . What is the legacy . I think the most important thing that edith wilson did was to bring the role of the first lady into the modern era in the sense that she supported the president and was aware of some of the issues that he was involved with. I might take her on her role in the stewardship. It was a little different than some. I think that her authority within the government relied almost entirely on the president s trust for her, her his respect for her. You wouldnt expect that she would betray that trust in order to go to the cabinet or the Vice President. I think she had that Important Role of being the help me to the president in a very modern way. We are at the wilson house in d. C. This is where edith wilson lived post presidency until 1961 when she died in this house. Weve got one more visit here and its kind of a special guest that we are going to introduce you to. Thank you for bringing us into the wilson house tonight and showing some of it to reviewing public. Wade Woodrow Wilson makes a decision to go into the war he goes all in. And here are right about the fact that what america really could contribute was man power. I mean it was a stalemate although russia collapsed and the bolsheviks, when they came in londons policy was piece at any price. And thats pretty much what he did, he paid a terrible price but its not that the germans could finally fight the battle they wanted to fight the war they wanted to fight. To try to do with the franco oppression war over again so that they could throw everything at france. And not just why they had the chance to do it in the spring of 1918 and its a race against time for us to get the deal boys there. But they were able to do it because they knew the yanks are coming. That material money, we really bail them out. The allies were bankrupt by that time. And we are able to bail them out. So we provided the footsoldiers, the dough boys and the dough. How many casualties in the war . American casualties . About 140,000. November 11th 1918. And then wilson moves from war present a peacemaker. Peacemaker and chief, he decided very early that he was going to go to paris and be our chief negotiator because he wanted to shape the piece as best he could. He knew he had come into the war later than the others and for different reasons. He knew that there were real differences feet of travels with him on that trip. I will take a call in have you come back and talk to us about how that was staged what her role was and how important it was to the piece that was shaped. Welcome, you are on the air. My question is what was, or how was the league of nations what did they whether the triumph or the president or failure to president wilson and how did mrs. Wilson take it because she lasted a little bit longer. She lived a little bit longer than wilson, how is it on their legal see this league of nations fail . It is both. Its a triumph and a failure, the fact that there was a league of nations was because of wilson. He was able to take the situation to paris and whip it together. Get this leak confident put together in an astonishing lead short period of time and it was terrific. But then his failure, was to be able to get the senate to consent to it. And this terrible stalemate and eventually we never joined the league of nation. Thats what happens, in world war ii, there is a posthumous apotheosis of Woodrow Wilson. Heres the profit that we did not honor, who we did not heed. Here is the man who predicted this, if we had listened to him we wouldve had this terrible second more. I think thats quite overdrawn, but there is a kernel of truth to that. It is hard to imagine that we wouldnt have played some type of more constructive role in World Affairs if weve done it differently and joined the league of nations. And edith after what rose death was very active with the league of nations. Not in a leadership way, but she used to go to geneva every year for her meetings and go to any country in the league that wanted to honor woodrow for his work in bringing it together. I should note that its United Nations week even as we do this in all the World Leaders will be gathering in new york city. Wouldnt you say that if it had not been for edith, if woodrow had resigned, that we might have joins the lead. Yes, he should have left. He should not have continued as president. He was not functioning. This warped judgment of his would not compromise. If he had resigned some kind of something to get him out of the way we would have joined the league. Now we wouldve joined it on a very conditional basis with lots of hedging around it. Frankly, that wouldve simply been a more openly stating what all the other nations were doing anyway. But it wouldve gotten us into a leadership role in World Affairs, a generation before we did. I think that was what was lost. We lost a generation of experience of leadership. We hope you saw the beginning of our program, because it was eat at wilson who made a critical decision with advice of his doctors to keep him in the white house and serve as the gatekeeper to him and keep the affairs of state going during those years when he was really, that was when he was very critically ill. I dont think it was with the doctors consent. You dont . Not a bit. In october he wrote a memo that should he be subpoenaed to congress he wanted to have something on paper early on saying that he did not, and stating exactly what was wrong with the president. But in her memory as i read several citations where she said doctors advised. Of course she did, but those memoirs are quite fanciful. She was her own Public Relations expert. A very distinguished neurologist wrote a medical biography of wilson. He takes it straight on, what eat it said that doctor said, he said no responsible physician wouldve said that, shes making that up. How about that . I asked about their trip to europe as the great peacemaker, they traveled by ocean liner to get there on a very specific day in december. What was the wilsons, as the president ial couple, arriving there, how are they received by other heads of state . How important was it to what went on here . They were received in terms that wouldve been accorded to royalty. Everywhere they went they were cheered by the populace. In the beginning it was wonderful. But once the negotiations got underway, either suddenly went from this fairytale existence to being extremely concerned for wilsons high Blood Pressure. He had had some kind of episode when he was only 39 years old, where he had a lot of numbness in his hands. He had very high Blood Pressure. All of his adult life or at least from the age of 39 onwards. Carrie grayson had been very insistent during the time he was president that he get a lot of exercise and rest. But during those negotiations he couldnt rest or exercise. Either there was trying her best, she will try to get him to go for a walk. The woman who was with her, her secretary, said that she herself would never go out if there is a possibility that she might be able to take woodrow for a walk. It was not enough. When he came back he embarked on a multi city tour of the United States to try to sell the concept to the league of nations, to the eu United States, to the people, ultimately leading to his exhaustion and the ultimate stroke that we spoke about. We have only 15 minutes left so we have to compress a lot of history in that time. Will return to the wilson house and introduce you to a member of the family. Susan, this is carrie fuller from west chester new york. What is your relationship . She was my great aunt. How much time did you spend here in the wilson house growing up . A lot of time. I came to visit with my great aunts, with my grandfather, with my great uncle, olive who edith took care of. Here theres only about three relatives still alive . Correct. We are in the library here, what was it like to visit with and edith. It was called playing cards. We came over, we had a good meal, we played cards, prompted by my mother to let her win every once in a while. She was a fierce person in terms of winning. Canister . That was the game. It was easy to let her win and i just let her go out. Are these the cards that you would use . The cards were always on the table. It was over here in the library . Did she ever talk about being first lady, what it was like . No. She rarely referred to the past. If she did, she would refer to Woodrow Wilson has the president. But there is no past memories really. It was interesting. Were there any special visitors while you are here . No. Not while i was here. It was all family, she loved her family so much. She spent a lot of time with them. And here in the house she would also take in family . My grandfather, her brother and her sister all died here in the house. Did she ever talk about ellen . Never. But i mean, that wouldnt come up. Seeing else wilsons picture in the house is sort of funny. It was just not a part of what we wouldve discussed. From what about Jackie Kennedy . I was close to Jackie Kennedy by sitting in a car and let my mother and aunt into the house. I was not here. I was waiting to pick them up afterwards. And thats when she was first lady . Edith was what she wanted us to call her, she was so excited about jon kennedy and the presidency. And that she got to live to see it was wonderful. We hear on the main level of the house, up one staircase from that entrance. Where would you sleep . Upstairs, only twice, and i stayed here for the night. Theres a little room in between her room and the president s and that was, just as i said, only on two occasions. There are three of you left, any of you are active in Edith Wilsons family . Not so much with a family, but with the wilson house and with the birthplace. Im involved with that which is wonderful. Carrie is here with us at the wood world wilson house. We want to thank bob and his staff for allowing us to come in with the cameras and show you a few of the artifacts here at the house. Thank you. And she made it to John Kennedys inauguration. Yes. She made it through 1961. She was supposed to dedicate the Woodrow Wilson bridge that all of us who live in washington know well. And she was going to dedicated on his 105th birthday, december 28th, 1961. But she was 89 and she contracted pneumonia. She couldnt make it, she died on his birthday. And the wood were a wilson center, which is so active in this town, as a policy, when the decade started . It got started in, let me think, i think it was authorized under kennedy. He authorized the commission. Right, and then it gets starteds the first director, its the late 1960s. He was originally in the old smithsonian building. Now it is in the reagan building, oddly enough. I think thats a very fitting memorial to wilson. It really does bring together scholars and policymakers. Wilson was no ivory tower. He really believed that scholarship that learning, should be brought to bear in public affairs. That was himself. This man took the lessons that he had learned, the insights that he had gotten from the study of politics, and put them into practice. He got a chance to practice what he had been preaching. Ive said this a number of times and people think its hyperbole, i dont know of any other career in american history, or in any other history that better justifies the study of politics as a preparation preparation for the practice of politics and woodrow. John you are on the. Or id like to make a comment. This woman, Edith Bolling wilson, but is an appellation woman the first an only woman appalachian women to become first lady. I wonder if the experts would be interesting in commenting on her appalachian role as caregiver, and the fact that she was a caregiver for this president. And on into his legacy and she really might be responsible for a lot of the emulation and legacy that president wilson has international history. I dont know that speaking an appellation woman made her stand out at that time in america. I think women then, and still today, are the principal caregivers of family members. And edith, and i mean ellen also came from rome, georgia which i think might be technically called appalachia also. She was very interested the appalachian mountain crafts. Two models part of the white house, the president s room with a quilts and hangings and fabrics. She had set up a Scholarship Fund there in memory of her brother with her earnings that she got from her paintings. I kind of feel that she was the one who focused more on the appalachian nature or character more than edith did. As we finish up, i want to frame her life, she met Woodrow Wilson just shortly after l and died. He provost very soon. She became first lady very quickly without much preparation for the. Roll how soon after that did he become ill . And how long did she take care of him . She was first lady to a functioning president in about four and a half years and she was nursemaid to president another four and a half years. And then he lived for how long incapacitated . That would include the time that he was incapacitated. Just under three. Years three years altogether. He dies . When 1924, february 4th. How is he memorialized at his death . Was it a big public funeral. Oh yes. It was really quite lovely. They had edith, president cool ridge offered the capital to have a state funeral, she declines. That is service at the house, presided over by both oppress but here in clergymen and the bishop, the washington bishop. Edith is episcopalian. She did not change to be a presbyterian to be with him. And he made no push for her to do that. And then theres a procession of massachusetts avenue happening at the cathedral. Those days there wasnt too much to the cathedral. His tomb has been moved up interesting lee enough in the year of his birth 1956. Its a lovely ceremony. One of the nicest touches was that when the funeral was at the end of the service, the bugle are played taps and they had a hook up to arlington, so that they knew the exact moment. So they had a beutler in arlington who also played taps. And she lived how long after he died . I think it was Something Like 37 years, it was an extraordinarily long time. He died in 1924 and she died at the end of 1961. What was her life . Like she spent the rest of her life being would wilsons widow. She tried to ensure his legacy, but she chose his first biographer. She controlled access to his papers, very closely. She controlled his image, she wrote her own memoir, as i said it was with her own spin. She collaborated with darrell zen a coup made a movie about wilson. She had a tight rein on what he was allowed to do. To me the most important thing that she did was that she supported something that he had supported during his lifetime, the Woodrow Wilson commission. The foundation. And they helped create the United Nations and they also collect these papers that arthur link and his team edited so that there are 69 volumes of Woodrow Wilsons letters and other significant papers, many of the letters from the first ladies, even letters from mary pack. I think thats her biggest legacy. We have some video, a film of Francis Cleveland and edith out of princeton university. I dont know story about them. Its at the bicentennial of princeton, 200 years. They gathered, all the living first ladies together. This is mrs. Cleveland who is much younger than Grover Cleveland and lived in princeton. She was there and there was edith. Thats truman, i dont know that Eleanor Roosevelt was there. They try to have them all. Theres a picture of president truman, with these three first ladies. I know that ellen wilson had to entertain Theodore Roosevelt at an armynavy game when woodrow was president of princeton. She did contact Francis Cleveland for advice on how to entertain ex president s. Did she come back to the white house . Who . Did you ever go back to the white house again . I dont know. With the kennedys, yes. And probably with the roosevelts. One thing that was interesting was when fdr went to congress on december 8th, the day after the bombing of pearl harbor, he invited edith wilson to come and sit in the gallery and she had sat in the gallery when Woodrow Wilson called for war in the first world war. Dan, your question. I have a question here about the president s illness, when edith was carrying out or not letting the nation know about his illness. Did she get investigated for that or did she commit a crime by doing this . I dont know there was a crime, i think it was a big mistake. There is no congressional investigation. I mean the smelling committee sending the senators up to check on him. Thats about as far as they got. As we close out here, first of all james wants to know about Edith Wilsons funeral in 1961, what was that like . I have no idea. Was there anything special about it. It was quiet funeral. She was buried with him we often talk that they were the first and only to be buried in the National Cathedral in washington. They had a fortune net to go to europe, and see many of the cathedrals here. They were trying to emulate that in washington. And they had one president , and the first lady and thats it. So in the close of your book, i want to show this on screen so people can see your biography of the two wives. Ellen and edith, Woodrow Wilsons first ladies. So if people can see the color. The cover. And you have conclusions, and i want to close with you talking a bit about this. It is wilson had a impact on history, and she had enabled Woodrow Wilson to stay in office. You also, right regardless of whether either wilson had an effect on international relations, it really did change american constitutional law. Her power during Woodrow Wilson s illness, was well known to everyone. And this is the part i want to go. To eat it wilson did not use the power of the president ial spouse, referring to that as constructively as she might have. Most notably she made no effort to have a better relation with racism. And her stern image in the public eye, and her leadership during world war i, admitting selling bonds, and working in a canteen and providing a good role model for women during wartime. So what should we think about Edith Wilsons, her role of first lady. I think as john suggested, unfortunately her biggest contribution is what not to do. Even as late as 1987, william sapphire, was writing to nancy reagan, writing a column that such an anti reagan, dont you be a neatest wilson. Dont you meddle in president ial politics. And i am afraid, let that in some ways is her greatest legacy as first lady. What an interesting story tonight, thanks for both of you for being here, and telling us about the first to the two first ladies, and the history. Thank you