Transcripts For CSPAN3 FBI Director Wray Testifies On National Security Threats 20240712

Without objection the chair is authorized to declare the committee in recess at any point. Good morning. Before we begin i want to say our thoughts with those americans dealing with devastating natural disasters including the wildfires in the west and Hurricane Sally in the south. As chairman i remain committed to ensuring they receive the federal help needed to respond, recover and build back stronger. They, the committee on Homeland Securitys meeting for its annual hearing on worldwide threats to the homeland. Our nation recently observed the 19th anniversary of the terrorist attacks of september 11, 2001. Nearly two decades later we continue to mourn the nearly 3,000 lives lost that terrible day and keep their loved ones in our prayers. This committee and the department of Homeland Security were established in the wake of 9 11 to help prevent future attacks on our soil. Regardless of who was chairman weve held regular hearings examining worldwide threats with leaders from the department of Homeland Security, fbi, and National Counter Terrorism Center. And regardless of who has occupied the white house, whether democrat or republican, weve received cooperation in that effort. Today was supposed to be no different. Unfortunately as we see from the empty chair in front of us mr. Wolf is not here to represent the department of Homeland Security. Let me be clear about how we got here. The committee began engaging with the department over three months ago to secure participation alongside his colleagues from the fbi and National Counter terrorism sfr. Any assertion that the administration committed to having dhs, fbi and nctc testify before this committee at a worldwide threat hearing in july is false. Dhs teptively offered a couple of dates but then could not agree with its fbi and nctc counter parts. In fact it was the department of Homeland Security that conveyed to the committee that september 17th was the earliest mr. Wolf would be available to testify at this hearing. In the interest of receiving mr. Wolfs testimony the committee agreed to the offered date. It was not until last week that the department informed the committee that mr. Wolf would be reneging on the commitment to testify in anticipation of being nominated for secretary of Homeland Security. I would note that despite his refusal to testify today mr. Wolf has spoken to the media on multiple occasions since President Trump announced he intended to nominate mr. Wolf to be secretary of Homeland Security including no fewer than four appearances on fox news. Mr. Wolf had run indepartmethe of Homeland Security for the last 10 months and has been responsible for numerous decisions directly relevant to the subjects the committee intends to explore. With that in mind last week i wrote mr. Wolf to make clear theres no legal prohibition bearing, barring a nominees testimony and to urge him to honor his commitment. In response the department again declined to provide mr. Wolf to testify at this hearing. Faced with continued refusal, on friday i issued a subpoena for his appearance in accordance with house and Committee Rules. Regrettably he has chosen to defy the subpoena. That he would refuse to come before the committee after committing to do so should appall every member of this committee. Insisting mr. Wolf keep his commitment to testifying before congress isnt playing politics. Its doing our job. Congress has the authority and obligation to execute its constitutional oversight responsibilities regarding mr. Wolfs decision and the departments action during his tenure. As chairman its my responsibility to ensure the committee fulfills its constitutional responsibilities. 19 years after the attacks of 9 11 we continue to face grave threats to the homeland including the rise of domestic terrorism, ongoing foreign interference in the 2020 elections and a coronavirus pandemic that has claimed nearly 200,000 american lives. As a person running the department of Homeland Security mr. Wolf should be here to testify as secretaries of homeland securities have done before. Instead we have an empty chair, an appropriate metaphor for the trump administrations dereliction on so many of these critical Homeland Security issues. Mr. Wolf may attempt to evade oversight, and the department may try silly stunts to distract from this hearing, but we will not waiver. The stakes are just too high. Indeed former department officials, the administrations own political appointees are coming forward to sound the alarm that our nations security is being compromised in favor of the president s political interest. Americans who care about securing the homeland and upholding our most sacred values expect their representatives to hold the department of Homeland Security and this administration accountable. Be assured that under my chairmanship i will not waiver on my commitment to doing so today and in the future. To that end im pleased that director ray and director miller are here today. I look forward to their testimony and the members questions. The chair now recognizes the Ranking Member of the full committee, a gentleman from alabama, mr. Rogers, for an Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before i get started i wanted to acknowledge that our newest member of the committee, mr. Garcia who i know is going to be a great addition in the future. We have made Great Strides to thwart global jihadist operations and to stop threats before they reach our shores. However, today global jihadists are joined by cyber hackers, rival nation states and transnational criminal organizations. Together they present incredible new risk to our economy, our safety and our way of life. Make no mistake the threats to our homeland have never been more real than they are today. Thats why its important that we as members of this committee understand those threats. It is our job to ensure that dhs, fbi and our Intelligence Community have the resources they need to continue to dismantle organizations and protect our homeland. I look forward to hearing more about the administration, how the administration is countering the threat from china and iran and others who seek to do us harm. Mr. Chairman, im also disappointed dhs is not here today. But i want the record to be very clear on why dhs is not represented. It is not the fault of the department or this administration. Acting secretary wolf offered to testify before this committee in both july and august. Unfortunately the majority refused to make either of those dates worked. Now due to his nomination mr. Wolf is prohibited from testifying under a policy thats been in place under both republican and democrat administrations for decades. Nevertheless, due to the significance of todays hearing the department offered to have mr. Cuccinelli testify. Hes the second highest ranking official at dhs and perfectly qualified and informed on todays subject matter. I ask unanimous consent to include his testimony for the record. Without objection. Thank you. He should be here today providing departments perspective on those threats we face and what dhs is doing to counter them. Instead of having a productive hearing with mr. Cuccinelli the chairman chose subpoena then empty chair mr. Wolf. This is a political stunt, a huge disservice to our committee and to the public. This is the single most important hearing we hold in this committee, but unfortunately as with most things of this congress the majority has chosen to play politics. As a result the public is being deprived of critical information from dhs. Perhaps thats the real reason why this majority didnt want mr. Cuccinelli here. Having the public hear about all the good things dhs is doing to protect them might undermine the radical lefts latest rallying cry, dismantle dhs. Unfortunately direct ray and im sorry, fortunately direct wray and miller are here to provide us with their valuable perspectives. I look forward to hearing from both of you about the threats we are facing, and with that i yield back. Thank you very much. The committee does not want to hear testimony from the department. Therefore after mr. Wolf declined our invitation we issued a subpoena to obtain his testimony. The socalled Standard Practice by which the Department Says mr. Wolf cannot testify is the administrations own selfimposed limitation. I also note that this is an administration whose respect of socalled precedents and even laws is highly situational. If the minority wanted to hear testimony from mr. Cuccinelli they had every right to invite him to appear as their witness at this hearing today. Im not aware of the minoritys requesting his testimony. Other members of the committee are reminded that under Committee Rules Opening Statements may be submitted for the record. Members are also reminded that the subcommittees will operate according to the guidelines laid out by myself and Ranking Members in our july 8th colloquy. I welcome our panel of witnesses. Our first witness is director of the federal bureau of investigations, christopher wray. Director wray began his Law Enforcement career in 1997 serving in numerous positions at the Justice Department before assuming his current role in 2017. Next we have the director of the National Counter Terrorism Center, christopher miller. Director miller served in the United States military from 1983 to 2014, and in numerous civilian National Security roles before assuming his current position. Without objection the witness full statement will be inserted in the record. I now ask each witness to summarize his statement in five minutes or the best you can do within that Time Beginning with director wray. Morning chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers and members of the committee. Im honored to be here today on behalf of men and women of the fbi to discuss our nations top threats from the fbis perspective and what were doing to counter those threats. I know we all share a lot of the same concerns about topics ranging from international and domestic terrorism to Cyber Security to the violence in our streets and particularly this year to the threat of foreign influence in our elections, and thats just to name a few. And i look forward to updating you on these and other important topics this morning. But id like to begin by covering quickly a few items that have been particularly top of mind for us at the fbi over the past few weeks. First terrorism remains the fbis top priority although the nature of that threat has evolved significantly since 9 11. We are ever vigilant in our efforts to thwart attacks by International Terrorist groups like al qaeda and isis. Those groups pose a threat not just to americans overseas but also here at home most notably by those we call homegrown violent extremists, often lone actors inspired by foreign terrorist selfradicalized online and motivated to attack soft targets with readily available weapons. Were also working around the clock to prevent attacks by domestic terrorists who are inspired by one or more extremist ideologies to commit violent act. In recent years weve been laser focused on threats by racially or ethnically motivated violence extremists. They too are often radicalized online or mobilized quickly to carry out their plans. Just last year while he was planning to blow up a synagogue in colorado. Were focused on making arrests before a criminal connect. Weve successfully thwarted potential terrorist attacks in kansas city, fachla, cleveland, oklahoma city, boston, phoenix and other locations. Now in recent months weve witnessed protests in various places around the country, many members of congress have raised questions about those protests. Although the majority of protesters have been peaceful we have opened investigations on individuals involved in criminal activity at these protests, some of whom adhere to violent extremist agendas designed to sow discord and upheaval. Let me be clear, we do not investigate groups or individuals based on ideology or the exercise of First Amendment protected activity alone. But when the ideology leads someone to commit criminal acts and pursue violence the fbi will not hesitate to take appropriate action. Thats why weve been working closely with our federal, state and local partners to ensure the safety of all of our citizens including i should say the safety of those trying to exercise their First Amendment rights peacefully. We in Law Enforcement must keep our communities safe and secure while safeguarding our citizens Constitutional Rights and civil liberties. As ive said before one need not and must not come at the expense of the other. We also remain focused on other threats. In less than two months, of course, americans will exercise one of their most cherished rights to vote in a free and fair election. Americans must have confidence in our Voting System and our election infrastructure. Thats why the security of our elections is and will continue to be one of our highest priorities. We will not tolerate foreign interference in our elections, and were working closely with our federal, state and local partners as well as the private sector to share information, bolster security and identify and disrupt any threats. Just recently, for example, we shared threat indicators with both facebook and twitter that allowed them to take down fake accounts created as part of a russian disinformation campaign. Before those accounts could develop a broader following. Turning to the cyber arena were focused on an increasingly diverse array of threats from our cyber adversaries, from state sponsored seeber intrusions by nation states like china, russia, iran and north korea to sophisticated cyber criminals seeking to exploit technical vulnerabilities primarily for personal profit. Just yesterday i announced the fbis new Cyber Strategy leveraging our unique expertise and authorities to impose risk and consequences on our cyber adversaries. Were focusing on results, and that means were working to enable our partners operations as well as our own. To take one example the fbi and nsa recently joined to ecpose highly sophisticated Russian Military intelligence malware, providing the private sector and other government partners the indicators they need to disrupt that tool. We also face increasingly blended threat of state sponsored economic espionage facilitated by cyber intrusions. In july based on the fbis investigative work doj indicted two doj hackers working with the ministry of state security for carrying out a Global Computer Intrusion Campaign that targeted hundreds of victims including i should note Companies Developing covid19 vaccines, Testing Technology and treatment. With that kind of behavior china continues to undercut their own claims of being a trusted and effective partner of the international community. Just yesterday we unsealed charges against five chinese hackers who were targeting victims around the world from their safe haven in china. With our partners weve now arrested two of their coconspirators in malaysia and seized or took down hundreds of the hackers accounts, servers or domains. Now, ive touched on only a handful of the important threats we face, and quickly at that. Of course there are many significant others. As the threats evolve in scale, impact, complexity and agility were relying on our deep well of expertise, intelligence and partnerships. Im committed to ensuring that the bureau does great work while adhering to our core tenants of fidelity, bravery and integrity. In these challenging times i tell my folks that weve got to keep calm and tackle hard. Remaining faithful to our core values and best traditions while making sure were always doing the right thing in the right way. Thank you. Happy to take your questions. Thank you very much for your testimony. I now recognize director miller to summarize his statement for 5 minutes. Thank you, sir. Chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the global counter caretism environment and to highlight the tireless work of the professionals of your National Counter Terrorism Center. Im truly honored and humbled to lead such an Extraordinary Group of patriots. As my statement for the record reflects todays terrorism threat to the United States and our allies and less acute but more ideologically and geographicically diffuse emanating from more groups and places than it did in 2001. Isis and alqaeda operate in more than two dozen countries worldwide. Iran and its shia allies increasingly threaten overseas. And lone actors inspired by a range of ideologies impose a terrorism threat on u. S. Soil. Our focus remains on defeating alqaeda. Its affiliates and other terrorist actors while defending our shores from terrorist entry. We believe this threat picture will only grow more complex over the coming year as technological advances, changing geopolitical dynamics and instability resulting from Global Pandemic create more opportunities for terrorists to benefit. However, the u. S. And our ct partners worldwide can exploit some of these same dynamics to our advantages. The complex landscape requires thoughtful responses that evolve with our adversaries, and we apry the lessons weve learned over the last 19 years to adapt for the future. The National Counter Terrorism Center, we are innovating new ways of doing business to ensure were best aligned to connect the dots amid a flood of ever changing through technological innovation and organizational realignments were positioning ourselves to mitigate the threat of today and preempt the threat of tomorrow. To do this well acquire greater resources to enrich our terrorist identities analysis and enhance our ability to detect and prevent terrorist travel to the United States. Well also need to invest in new data science and information technology, solutions to optimize how we harness Information Available in our inner agency partners. In addition to adaptability involving terrorist threat requires vigilance especially as other National Security priorities eclipse Counter Terrorism and prominence and the u. S. physical footprint in key jihadist theaters shrinks. We believe that the changing National Security framework and priorities only reinforces nctcs mandate to serve as the governments lead agency for Counter Terrorism threat information and analysis. As our interagency partners work diligently to allocate resources to address the full scope of National Security challenges, we remain focused, laser focused on leading the government ct enterprise to guarantee we maintain relentless pressure on terrorist networks and preclude them from creating sanctuaries from which they can plot and project combat power. That is the essential Lesson Learned from our 19 years of experience in this global war on terror. Nearly two decades after 9 11 its now more important than ever the nctc remains sufficient to lead the fight against terrorism by building on its legacy of vigilance and adaptation to prepare for the future. Im confident our integrative and agile model has revolutionized how the u. S. Addresses transNational Threats and one that remains worthy of emulation across federal government. Perhaps most importantly has allowed us to uphold our sacred commitment to protect and serve the American People. In closing thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. I look forward to your questions. I thank the witnesses for their testimony. I remind each member that he or she will have 5 minutes to question the panel. Ill now recognize myself for questions. Director wray, can you for the sake of the committee identify what organization posed the greatest threat from a domestic standpoint here to the homeland . Sf right wing extremists, or is it left wing, or what does your report reflect . Mr. Chairman, we assessed the greatest threat to the homeland, to us here domestically is not one organization, certainly not one ideology but rather lone actors largely selfradicalized online who pursue soft targets using readily accessible weapons, and those include both domestic violent extremists of a variety of sorts as well as homegrown extremists motivated by foreign jihadist type sources. Those two groups those two categories as a whole provide the greatest challenge and threat to us here at home partly because and youve often heard the expression in the past the importance of connecting the dots. If you compare the threat i just described to the sort of alqaeda sleeper cells of old, that group, the sleeper cells, youve got a group of people colluding, conspiring, fundraising, planning, preparing, communicating. So theres a lot of dots out there to connect if the Intelligence Community and Law Enforcement know where to connect. And it usually occurs over a long period of time. These people, both categories, the domestic violent extremists and homegrown dont take a lot of planning and preparation match they can go from radicalization to mobilization in weeks if not days. So the challenge of connecting the dots, working with nctc and other partners is that much greater because there are fewer dots to connect and that much time to do it. Thats why thats the biggest challenge to us here in the homeland. So when we hear Officials Say antifa is the biggest threat on the left, are they being correct . Well, we dont really think of threats in the fbi as left or right. Our domestic violent extremists include everything from racially motivated violent extremists which weve talked about here in this committee before i think when i testified last year for example all the way to antigovernment, antiauthority violent extremists, as well as militia types and those kinds. I think what im trying to reflect on is we hear from time to time that this organization by name we need to investigate. He asked for an investigation of antifa because they were the greatest threat to the homeland. And if im hearing you correctly youre saying that its really not organization so much as it is ideology. And i dont want to put words in your mouth, but i think thats what i heard. I appreciate that. We look at antifa as more of an ideology or a movement than an organization. To be clear we do have quite a number of properly predicated domestic terrorism investigations into violent anarchists, extremist, any number of whom selfidentify with the Antifa Movement. And thats part of this Broader Group of Domestic Violence extremists im talking about, but its just one part of it. We also have the racially motivated violent extremists, militia types and others. Thank you. Can you tell me if as of this date you have information that russia is trying to influence the election for 2020 . Yes, i think the intelligence committees assessment is russia continues to try to influence our elections. Primarily through what we would call maligned foreign influence as opposed to what we saw in 2016 where there was also an effort to target election infrastructure, you know, cyber targeting. Weve not seen that second part yet this year or this cycle. But we certainly have seen very active, very active efforts by the russians to influence our election in 2020 through what i would call more the maligned foreign influence side of things. Social media use of proxies, state media, online journals, et cetera in an effort to both sow divisiveness and disorder, and i think the Intelligence Community has assessed this publicly. To primarily denigrate Vice President biden and what the russians see as kind of an antirussian establishment. Thats essentially what were seeing in 2020. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes the Ranking Member for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The department of justice has recently anonced many fbi investigations the growing number of these time types of cases raise alarm bells for me. I introduce legislation this week to and take advantage of our open and world renowned Education Research institutions particularly those that are taxpayer funded through government grants. What is the significance in the prevalence of this threat . Im sorry, i couldnt hear the very end of your question. The chinese nationals who are using our educational facilities for their research and stealing our international property, whats the threat the significance of it in your view . So the chinese view themselves as in a International Talent war, and they recognize that American Innovation and research is the envy of the world and frankly the envy of china. And when they cant innovate and research themselves they send people over here in some cases legitimately but in many cases not who engage in intellectual property theft, taking information, American Research and bringing it back to china to advance chinas National Security goals, which has the perverse effects since a lot of this research is taxpayer funded as essentially the perverse effect of having american taxpayers funding chinas advancement at our expense. What can congress do to help you combat that threat . Well, certainly we appreciate congress allocation of resources to our Counter Intelligence efforts. Thats an important part of it. I think i publicly acknowledged that the fbi now has over 2,000 Counter Intelligence investigations related to china. By far the biggest chunk of our Counter Intelligence portfolio. And we are opening a new chinese Counter Intelligence investigation about every 10 hours. And so the scope and scale of this threat is really breathtaking. And we need as many resources as we can to help everybody tackle it, but its not just a government problem. We need to work with the private sector. You mentioned the academic sector. I will tell you im very encouraged by the response weve gotten from both the private sector, and frankly the academic sector. Lately i think people in this country are starting to wake up to the threat and voluntarily undertaking appropriate measures. So the congress can be very helpful in kind of raising awareness both when youre all at home in your districts but also through your work here in washington in highlighting the importance of the threat and communicating in effect back to chinese this is an issue thats bipartisan that all Americans Care about and that were not going to tolerate anymore. So you do believe that the academic sector is sensitive to this . Well, yes. It varies i will tell you significantly from university to university about how sensitive and how cooperative with us theyve been, but i think this is frankly one of the bright spots over the last couple of years. Weve had quite a few universities. Ive been to all 56 fbi field offices, and i will tell you im struck by the number of offices where universities that three or four years ago wouldnt have wanted an fbi agent anywhere near campus to some that now have office space set aside for our people. And i think thats thats not just because theyre idealistic and believe in the country, i hope, but rather its recognition that the information thats being stolen is their information. So its about protecting their research, their professors, their hard work, frankly. I think the better off well be because the fbi certainly cant tackle this alone. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield pack. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes the young lady from texas, ms. Jackson lee. To both of the witnesses we thank you for your presence and also your service to this nation. Director wray, the fbi on may 30, 2019 issued the intelligence bulletin on antigovernment identity base and fringe political conspiracy theories, very likely motivate some domestic extremist to commit criminal and sometimes violent activity. I think you folktsed or made the point today in your testimony that you act more toward the ideology. You are determined to assess the threat to the United States. So im interested qanon activity has how do you characterize that organization . How do you assess that organization as it relates to violent acts . So we view qanon as essentially less of an organization and more of a sort of complex set of conspiracy theories, and certainly weve had cases where that properly predicate cases involving violence where people have been motivated by some of those conspiracy theories. But as you said, you know, we dont investigate the ideology or the Conspiracy Theory itself. I dont think weve seen lethal attacks involving that kind of motivation, but we have certainly so your investigations would be driven based upon any violent acts . Correct. Violent no matter what ideology or belief it is of domestic violent extremism we look at three things. One, violence or a threat of violence, two a federal crime, obviously. And then third, the motivation that fuels it. We have to have those three things to open an investigation. Black lives matter was organized shortly after the tragic senseless death of trayvon martin. Young people took to the streets asking for justice. Theyve obviously continued their fight for justice and in particularly in the wake of Police Shootings of africanamerican men and most recently of course george floyd, my constituent and elijah blake in states in this country. Do you see just on the name of black lives matter and the basis of their organizing them as an Extremist Group intending to turn america into a socialist nation or to destroy america . We dont express a view on the sort of Political Organization itself of black lives matter. If there were people who follow that group or who adhere to that ideology who were then to based on that ideology or anything else to commit violent criminal activity, then we would approach them just like we would anyone else. But youre no longer pointing to black identity groups . Well, i think what youre referring to and we had some good conversations in the past about this. In 2017 there was briefly a product or a category that the fbi came up with that predates me on black identity extremism. Right, and just want you to say yes or no. The reason is because my time is short. And the point im trying to make is that just the existence of black lives matter and their advocacy for justice is not determine them to be disruptive socialist groups trying to destroy the nation. You have not characterized them that way. We dont characterize them one way or the other, no. Have you seen excessive violence that can be attributed to black lives matter as opposed to any other group that may be involved in violence . I cant think of one sitting one here right now. Certainly weve had racially motivated extremist cases involving involving africanamerican defendants who have pursued violence against say Law Enforcement. And whether any of those cases involve some reference of black lives matter sitting here right now i cant recall one, but weve certainly have had cases of the first category. As youve had cases with white individuals as well, violence against officer ss . Absolutely. In particular the one in were known to be the culprits in the shootings. Those individuals were not involved in protests to your knowledge as Vice President pence indicated that they were involved in protests. These were white individuals who unfortunately tragically shot officers Dave Patrick Underwood and another one. Are you familiar with that . Gentle ladys time has expired. Well, on the carrillo case i dont think we my recollection is there was no evidence that he was participating in the protest himself. I think there was information that he capitalized on the protest as a setting or a medium for which he could commit the tragic attack on the fbis officers. Thank you. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes gentleman from louisiana, mr. Higgins for 5 minutes. I thank the chairman and panelists. For the record, mr. Chairman, id like to thank the department of Homeland Security and secretary wolf for actively and personally participating in the recovery and supervision of my district after hurricane laura. Secretary wolf was on the ground fast. I regret that we were not able to work out his appearance here today. But i do appreciate his service and the direction hes given and the personal assistance hes given to my office in the wake of hurricane laura and it devastation weve suffered there. Director wray, thank you for being here today, good sir. And id like to talk to you about Election Security. The National Counter Intelligence Security center and ncsc released a statement of china and irans effort to interfere in the upcoming president ial election. You also mentioned in your written testimony to shift u. S. Policies to increase discord in the United States and ultimately to undermine the American Peoples confidence in our election process. Can you share with us regarding social media platforms, which is primarily the means by which this interference effort is being pushed. How is the fbi working with social media platforms to ensure our Election Security and to minimize fake profiles and foreign influence in the attitudes and perspectives of the American People . Well, congressman, thank you for the question. You are correct that we are working increasingly closely and have been building over the last few years in our working with the social media sector in particular and also other kinds of Technology Companies to thruwort the maligned foreign influence threat. I guess the best way to describe the way that works, and this is really one of the greatest improvements that has occurred in our collective defense against election interference over the last few years, we will take leads that we have, information we have, work very closely with some of the key social Media Companies. We feed them information, and they are able to take action on their platforms using their terms of service or terms of use to shutdown and kick off fake accounts, trolls, bots, et cetera. And then in turn a lot of times what will happen and this is happening more and more which is great theyre sending back to us new accounts theyve identified that then allow us to have more leads to pursue more investigative activity. And so i mentioned one example in my Opening Statement that recently occurred where we were able to pass information to facebook and twitter, they were able to shutdown russian influence accounts really right before they could ever build a following. And the faster we can do that, the more agile way we can do that, the better. And the reason for that i think its important for people to understand. Misinformation or disinformation or fake information is only effective if it seems credible. And its only credible if its builtup some reservoir of credibility. Which means these russian efforts require a certain amount of time to build up kind of a reservoir of credibility so when theyre really active people care what they have to say. And if were able to shut them down and knock them back quickly before they can really build up that credibility, then its not going to stop it but it means its much, much less effective. So we need more of that. Were having more of that. Yes, sir. Thank you for that assessment. Those were encouraging words. Can we conclude based upon your perspective, director wray, that the fbi does have an ongoing and functional relationship with the social media platforms to deter or to dismantle ultimately individual efforts by foreign nation states to sway the perspectives of the American People and ultimately influence our elections . Are you comfortable with the kind of with the kind of relationship and communications youre having with the social media giants . Well, i guess the best way i can answer that is to say i tend to be ambitious for the organization and for the country. So i think theres always room for improvement, and im always impatient for more progress and more improvement. But certainly the strides weve made at the fbi working with some of those companies over the last few years has really been very encouraging. And i think were making great progress. Id like to see more progress including from them, but were moving in the right direction for sure. Thank you, mr. Chairman mooch my time has expired. I yield. Chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island from 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i want to begin by thanking director wray and director miller for your presence here today and for your testimony. Hearing from our nations top Law Enforcement and Homeland Security officials on the threats facing our country is of paramount importance to the American People. Director, let me begin with you and let me start on a topic of the Solarium Commission which i served as a commissioner as did you. I want to thank you for your participation on the commission as well as that of Deputy Director on the commission. Im very proud of the collaborative work we did in developing recommendations, many of which im optimistic will become law by the end of the year. What are your observations, director, on the final report . And which recommendations do you consider most present . I kmenld my fellow commissioners especially you and senator king and others for really pushing this topic before hopefully have some truly apocalyptic cyber crime in this country and not shying away from hard issues. I think there are some several recommendations in the report we think would benefit our cyber investigative intelligence missions, and i think the commission was on the right track on that. Including in particular really highlighting and encouraging the government to double down on our National Cyber investigative joint Investigative Task force, the ncijtf that sort of brings a whole government approach to the importance of attribution which is so key. You also i think the Commission Also highlighted a number of statutory gaps and inconsistencies. Theres references to the need to update, for example, the pen register trap and trace statute. Theres references to Administrative Subpoena Authority for computer intrusion cases. Those are few things that jump out at me. Thats good. My time is short so let me jump to another topic. I also want to highlight the joint collaborative environment to allow analysts across the government and private sector to produce Cyber Threat Intelligence products. So thats another important one. But let me turn to elections because this is a very important topic. We only have about 7 weeks to go until the election, and early voting begins monday. And misinformation and disinformation from foreign and domestic actors are widespread. Weve discussed some of this topic already this morning. Director wray, who is responsible for coordinating Election Security across the interagency . And to put it bluntly who is in charge . And i also want to know who is responsible for coordinating efforts to combat election related misinformation and disinformation . But take them in order there. So the fbi takes the lead on maligned foreign influence domestically, and we work closely with through our Foreign Influence Task force. We have people from nsa for example on our task force. We work very closely as i mentioned a few minutes ago with the social Media Companies, and thats really almost daily engagement. And we engage through the Foreign Influence Task force really every day especially in the runup to the election on the maligned foreign influence piece. Who would you say is in charge at the interagency . Im sorry . Who would you say is responsible for coordinating across the interagency . Whos in charge . Well, we all work together. Just as we do against the terrorist threat. Its an interagency process. We take the lead on the maligned foreign influence threat. Odni takes the lead on coordinating the intelligence analysis that cacomes out of it. Whos responsible for coordinating the election misinformation, disinformation . I think the fbi takes the lead in combating that. We have someone that is identified as the person in charge and working together is important. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes young lady from arizona. Thank you, mr. Chair, and thank you you both of you and all your employees for the hard work you do protecting our nation. Director wray, when do you plan to declassify the 302s that were produced regarding the ukraine election interference in the 2016 election . I dont have an update for you on the timing of a specific declassification document but im happy to see if theres information we can prid back to your office as a followup. Thank you. And director wray, as you know ig horowitz identified numerous major errors in the fisa Court Application process under the obama administrations i would classify it as spying on the trump campaign. And so what status are we at in cleaning that whole process up . So appreciate the question. Let me say first that i think that report describes conduct that i consider unacceptable and unrepresentative of who i know the fbi to be as an organization, and it cannot be allowed to happen again. Ive installed an entirely new leadership team. Ive put in place, implemented kregtive actions and then went above and beyond. The senior most people involved in that investigation are all gone, either terminated during my tenure or resigned or retired. And were moving forward with changes to processes, training, oversight within the organization. Were creating a new office of internal audit. You may have seen announcements from the attorney general on that. We got his approval to do that, which will sort of provide the back end check, the old sort of trust and verify. Well get the verify part coming from that. So im very encouraged by the progress were making, but its going to take hard work. Well, thank you, and im glad you appreciate it, because obviously to the average american person including me if the fbi can spy on an incoming president of the United States every person in america is concerned that they will spy on them, and so im glad its being cleaned up. I do have a question about boogaloo. Recently its my understanding two americans selfidentifying as members were arrested for attempting to pattern with hamas due to their similar goals or missions. How have these arrests modified the dhs and fbi approach to investigating and handling rioters and domestic terrorists . Those were two individuals who i think associate themselves with the boogaloos who much like antifa is a movement or ideology than it is a group itself. But i think one of the things a lot of people dont understand of people who subscribe is that their main focus is dismantling tearing down government. And theyre less clear what it is theyre going to replace government with. Im not even sure they would agree with each other. Thats why this case you highlighted in minneapolis is so revealing because these two individuals decided they were onboard with providing Material Support to hamas which is not something most people would previously associate with boogaloos. Its interesting. I do have one last question, only 49 seconds left. Theres been statements by top people, in fact chairman nadler has said on the floor of the u. S. House of representatives that basically an fiefa is a fantasy made up by the radical right or fox news or something to that effect. Would you agree with that . Is antifa a total fantasy, or is it real . So antifa is a real thing. Its not a group or an organization. Its a movement or an ideology may be one way of thinking of it. And we have quite a number. And ive said it consistently since my first time appearing before this committee. We have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchist extremists, and some of the those individuals selfidentify with antifa. Thank you, sir, and i yield back. Chair recognizes gentleman from louisiana, mr. Richmond, for 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, let me just express how disappointed i am that dhs is not here. Although there are real things that we need to know especially in louisiana from dhs. We have wildfires. We have hurricanes. We need to know if fema has the funds to help our american citize citizens whose lives have been turned upside down. For those people in lake charles, louisiana, that are in shelters and surrounding cities like new orleans, we need to know whats femas plan. Does dhs have the funds . Have the funds been moved over to build a wall . Look, fortunately for new orleans we escaped this time from major damage. However, because of what congress did for us after hurricanes katrina and rete awe continue to pay it forward. And even though my colleagues from louisiana may not want to criticize dhs on the president i will do it. We have people very vulnerable now, and we need to know whats the federal governments plan, the amount of money they have, and for dhs not to be here is insane. Let me start, direct wray, really quick you talked about movements and ideologies, but black lives matter is more of a principle and an organization. And what im trying to what id like to go into very quickly is that do you all identify it as an Extremist Organization . Im sorry, can you repeat the question . I said black lives matter is a principle and its also an organization. Do you all identify black lives matter as an Extremist Organization . We have not identified black lives matter in any way. Do you identify the organization as a violent organization or a threat to peace . We have as i said we have not identified the organization in any way. We dont unlike on the International Terrorism side, the foreign terrorism side there is no mechanism under u. S. Law for us to domestic organizations as anything really. Director wray i know you hear all the time this whole mantra of law and order. And what im trying to do is get you to give some clarification because things may get silly, dangerous or foolish. And so my example would be posting on social media a comment that if armed black people come to my city i will drop ten of them. That is dangerous rhetoric especially when we see people exercising their right to carry arms that are white and that are black. And for people to assume that the ones that are black are a threat, that they can publicly say i will drop ten of you, its concerning. And i know that you as one of our top law and order officials should have some concern about that rising level of rhetoric and agitation. Well, we are i think very concerned about violence of any kind including violence that denies citizens of their Constitutional Rights and civil liberties. And certainly one of the concerns that we have amidst the current unrest is a growing trend of protest begets counterprotest begets violence of one side against the other. So theres an increasing phenomenon of individuals attacking each other in addition to attacking Law Enforcement, and thats not good for anybody. Thank you, director wray. And really quickly a lot of mayors have called me around the country that are saying, wait, the violence in the streets, the chaos and the destruction of property, people are aseening to black lives matter. And from my experience what were seeing is that is not black lives matter. Would you agree with that statement . I dont think i would characterize the way youre hearing certainly. I guess what i would say is from one city to another, from one night to another whos committing violence and instruction of property varies widely. Certainly from city to city, sometimes from night tonight. I think in general what were seeing across the country are sort of three groups, right . Three categories is a better way of putting it. One is peaceful protest wrrz, a second is what i would call criminal tunests, people engaged in kind of state, low level vandalism and looting and things like that. Criminal activity that needs to be addressed largely as a state and local matter. And theres the third category which is the most dangerous, and those are the people engaged in throwing mall tav cocktails and those kinds of things. The thats the group we the fbi are most focused on, most concerned about, and those grouperize motivate bide a wide variety of ideologies and agendas. I see my time is up. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Chair recognizes gentleman from pennsylvania for 5 minutes, mr. Joyce. Thank you mr. Thompson. Thank you director miller and director wray for this important update on worldwide threats to our homeland. Director wray, are you seeing a coordinated efforts from radical and or left wing organizations who are perhaps targeting Law Enforcement officers . Well, as i said a few minutes ago the violence varies widely. Much of the violence that were seeing, it does not appear to be organized our atrichbutted to any one particular group or movement. That doesnt make it any less serious or acceptable. Now, we are seeing in certain pockets more kind of regionally organized folks coalescing often coordinating on the ground in the middle of protests, you know, in terms of tactics and things like that. And that is some of the most dangerous activity because thats often what leads to destruction of small business, destruction of government buildings, and particularly concerning to me, you know, assaults on Law Enforcement and federal Law Enforcement officials in particular but not exclusively. Weve got case after case of people burning setting fire and pouring gasoline and etsetting fire to mark police vehicles. So this is not innocuous activity. And it takes a very, very, very special person to be willing to put his or her life on the line for complete strangers every day which is not what Law Enforcement in this country does. And even before all of this latest activity and then you add on top of that covid deaths for Law Enforcement continue because of course Law Enforcement doesnt have the ability to sit it out, and now weve seen a significant uptick in violence against Law Enforcement in this country this year. Its up markedly from last year and the reason i know that besides just looking at the statistics i made it a practice before becoming fbi director is every time theres an officer shot or killed in this country to personally call a chief or sheriff responsible for that officer and express my call donances and support on behalf of the fbi and i will tell you we had a stretch just recently late august Early September where over a 15day stretch i made seven of those phone calls. Thats an officer feloniously killed every other day. And these are people, you know, average age in their late 30s. Had their whole lives ahead of them, they had families, and it breaks my heart. I aprod you fplaud you for c with local Law Enforcement when these tragedies occur. You and i realize that these men and women bravely ever day put on the uniform to protect us. Has there been any well, somewhat like what i was describing in response to a question earlier on the election influence contacts or threat we do relationships with social Media Companies in which, again, in a similar way they will sometimes detect activity on their platforms and theyll sometimes use their terms of service to shutdown to flag information for Law Enforcement. So any assistance i would say, yes, some assistance. It varies a bit from company to company. Some of them devoted more resources to that kind of operation which supports Law Enforcement than others. But we do certainly have a number of engagements with partnerships almost with some of those companies. And finally, do you see any foreign governments attempting to communicate with these organizations or assist any Political Party within them . Im sorry, which organizations are we talking about now . With these left wing organizations which i think are behind so much of the attacks on Law Enforcement. One, we have seen some efforts by our foreign adversaries to sort of piggyback on a lot of the unrest activity occurring as part of the effort to either sow divisiveness and discord in the case of the russians or to advance their own narratives say in the case of the chinese. So theres that level of kind of engagement. And then i would say the second piece is maybe not the organizations youre talking about, but we have seen some engagement. Chair recognizes gentleman from new jersey, mr. Paine for 5 minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its an honor and privilege to be here today with a committee, and let me first say to mr. Wray and mr. Miller that i appreciate you understand your obligation to show up when the Committee Requests your appearance as opposed to the empty chair gnat is there. And let me ask mr. Wray is there a so with antifa youre saying its more of an ideology than organized group, you know, which a lot of people, you know, on the other side feel is some organized group. Is it an organized group, or is it more just a notion of thought or philosophy with respect to this . Because when i hear this, you know, antifa is there or antifa is doing this, im still trying to figure out what antifa is. Could you enlighten me . Well, first let me say as i think i said in response to an earlier question antifa is a real thing. Its not a fiction. But it is its not an organization or a structure. We view it more as a we understand it to be more of a kind of a movement. Or maybe you could call it an ideology. And we certainly have as ive said a number of, and we have had for some time and weve opened quite a number this year of improperly predicated investigations into violent anarchist extremist who subscribe or selfidentify with antifa. They say, you know, i am antifa, things like that. And we have seen individuals i think i mention this in response to one of the earlier questions identified with the Antifa Movement coalescing regionally into what you might describe as small groups or nodes. And we are actively investigating the potential violence from those regional nodes, if you will. Thank you. Congressman, you might need to unmute yourself. Were advised were having some issues with webex right now. Were trying to correct that. Well standby. Gentleman from new jersey may continue. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Wray, did you finish your response . I finished my response, but im not sure whether you were still online while i finished. Id be happy to pick up where i left if you tell me where you lost contact. Well, i think i got the gist of your response, so ill move on. Mr. Miller, for the past four years you have seen the United States significantly scale back its presence and commitment around the world. Our nato allies no longer trust us to keep our commitments leaving the door open for other forces to step into this vacuum. As weve seen time and again instability leads to violence. Does the National Counter terrorism planning for the effects of Global Leadership vacuum . Thank you, sir, for that question. Ive been so impressed. Ive been doing this for a few years, and the most amazing thing is the partnerships we have internationally on the Counter Terrorism fronts, and i have seen no degradation in our commitment and our partnerships in that regard. As a matter of fact, oftentimes its almost one of those during the cold war we see Foreign Policy ended at the waters edge. Its very much the same way with Counter Terrorism now. Obviously concerned about drawing back from our commitments overseas but we maintain a robust very significant Counter Terrorism presence overseas, and we have the ability to generate combat power and deploy that forward if theres an enemy terrorist group in a position to threaten us. Do you believe that the United States is acting as a Global Leadership . As you noted were in a great transformation geopolitically and geostrategically. I talk with all of our partners regularly with our five eyes and we maintain a Close Relationships and partnership and leadership role. Gentleman from new jerseys time has expired. First, the petty game about who from the department of Homeland Security testifies today must be amazing from outside the beltway. This is the annual hearing on worldwide threats to the homeland, and i cant for one imagine setting aside that priority in order to engage with the department about whether mr. Wolf or mr. Cuccinelli appears that we have neither, and in light of that ill direct questions, director wray, to you. All summer and early fall weve seen numerous and ongoing riots, looting, property destruction, even serious injuries and killings in cities across the United States. Minneapolis, l. A. , seattle, charleston, chicago, washington, d. C. , rochester, lancaster and of course portland come to mind. And weve seen some media characterize these events as fiery but mostly peaceful. And politicians have dismissed them occasionally as myth. But americans have seen independent reports and shocking videos and they keep coming. I dont really understand the thinking of lawmakers who seek perversely to justify this criminality by pointing to the existence of other violent extremists with different ideology. I would think all elected officials would condemn violence regardless of the ideology of the perpetrators especially for the ideologies closer to their position on the spectrum. The characterization of right and left in these things is operates hard to pin down. In any event some reports early on have suggested there were pallets of brick prepositioned in riot yareas. And interstate travel of rioters to multiple venues. All of these in turn suggest a Funding Source or multiple Funding Sources. You have made reference as has had the attorney general to numerous arrests having been made. Are you investigating sources of funding in support of that criminal activity . I appreciate the question. Certainly we have a number of investigations and are pursuing a number of leads that do things like try to identify networks, travelers, supply sources. We look at repeat offenders. As i mentioned i think in response to a question from one of your colleagues one of the things thats been so challenging about this is that an awful lot of the coordination or organization if you will that is happening kind of on the ground, you know, in the dark, on the streets at a tactical level as posed to on a more structured or coordinated National Level and that makes it that much harder to investigate or disrupt, but i think its important for people to understand that although i do agree that the majority of the people out there protesting in general across the country are peaceful protesters, theres no question that the biggest number is peaceful protesters. That should not diminish which i think is the point youre making from the fact even though it might numerically be a Smaller Group, thats very dangerous activity that Smaller Group is engaged in. And thats why the fbi is focused as much as your question was, were focused on the violence. Not the ideology. Nobody cared left, right, violence is wrong. We dont care what motivates. To be sure those issues ought to be irrelevant to this committee or to any Law Enforcement agency in the United States. That is to say what ideology someone has or their First Amendment activity. And so much of that happening is frankly something we should take no cog nizance of. As to those people who are engaging in violence and destruction, and there have been many, the question becomes with its proliferation in so many places, is the fbi examining the finances underlying the people who you arrest to see what their accounts are, the sources of cash and are you using laws to disrupt those sources of funding and the like . Without reference to any specific investigation, i can tell you there are any number of investigations in which the source funding the source of supply are things that are of particular interest and things that were actively questioning and pursuing leads on. As far as the civil forfeiture piece i will confess sitting now in the hearing i cant off the top of my head think of a situation weve yet been able to use that, but we will use every tool in our toolbox if we think it fits. My times expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Chair recognizes young lady from new york for 5 minutes, ms. Rice. Mr. Miller, late last month your boss, ratcliffe, said the office of director of National Intelligence would cease inperson Election Security briefings to congress. And just yesterday you reversed that decision and said hell continue to brief the senate and House Intel Committee on efforts to secure the 2020 election from foreign interference but will no longer conduct briefings for all lawmakers citing the need to protect intelligence sources and methods. Its incredibly frustrating that a nonpartisan issue like the security of our elections has been so politicized that members of congress are now considered untrustworthy of this critical information. Its also particularly alarming that this information is being withheld from members of congress only weeks after dhs confirmed publicly that russia was working to boost President Trump, again, by discrediting Vice President bidens health. Will you commit to us that the odni will continue to keep all members of congress informed on Election Security threats . And if your answer is yes, how do you plan on doing that . Maam, with all respect i dont do Election Security. That really is a decision thats being made at the dni level. And my center we just do Counter Terrorism now. Maybe you can take the message back to your boss because to say that members of congress are not worthy to be trusted with this information when its actually our job to have this information and to have some level of oversight is really disturbing. Yes, maam, id be happy to take that message back. Thank you. Mr. Wray, recently the department of justice and federal partners conducted the largest ever seizure of terrorist organizations, crypto currency accounts seizing in total 300 accounts allegedly used by Foreign Terrorist Organizations like alqaeda, isis and hamas to fund attacks. Out of this committee we passed a bipartisan bill that would on the use of Virtual Currencies by terrorist organizations. This version of the bill was signed into law just this past december. This case demonstrates the adaptability of terrorist groups who have traditionally used unlicensed money services, businesses or Money Laundering operations to adopt their terror finance activities to the cyber age. In your opinion will crypto currencies continue to be used by these terrorist organizations on a wider basis . What trends are you or your Respective Department seeing in this matter . Congresswoman, i agree with you crypto currency is a source of particular concern. Its proliferating not just across terrorist threats but across other kinds of criminal threats as well. And within the terrorism space both across International Terrorists and domestic, and it makes it one of the key investigative tools that we have, one of the key investigative strategies that we have in that space, much as was in the answer i just gave to congressman bishop was to follow the money. Thats one of our goto moves. And of course the ability to follow the money is critical across every threat and the crypto currency makes it that much harder to do that. We have developed a lot of the expertise on that. But each kind we solve one kind of crypto currency a new kind comes on the market. Part of the reason why this is such a big deal is that it fits with other technological trends which have a similar kind of effect of hiding and obstructing criminal activity from Law Enforcement. So if you think about any investigation you have youve got the stuff, the documents, the communications, youve got the people, witnesses, the sources, human sources, and youve got the money. Well, if crypto currency hides the money, if default and encryption blocks us from any kind of lawful access to this stuff. And if Artificial Intelligence and all the various ways in which Technology Makes it easier to find human sources, makes it harder for us to protect human sources then we lose the money, the people and the stuff. And thats when were in a really bad space as a country from protecting us from terrorist threats all it way to organized criminal threats and others. Can i ask you to just talk a little bit more you made reference earlier in response to a question about the collaboration that your agency has with social media platforms in terms of misinformation and disinformation. Can you just talk more about that . Because if people cant trust the information theyre getting, i mean that just goes to the heart of really affecting, you know, what i think all of us on this Committee Want to do which is everyones right and ability to vote and base their decisions on facts not misinformation and disinformation. So this is one of our key challenges both for the fbi and interagency and for the country. Misinformation, disinformation is not new, but what is new is the ability through social media to amplify it at scale in a much more challenging way. Thats why the partnerships with the private sector and with Silicon Valley tech companies, et cetera, has become so critical to our efforts. There are things they can do, and they have resources to take responsibility for things that are happening on their own platforms much more quickly and within greater legal flexibility under their terms of use and terms of service than we could do through Law Enforcement needs. And so thats part of the key effort. Now, we at the fbi cant be the truth police. And a lot of people dont understand thats not how we go about deterring misinformation or foreign influence. If its the russians we follow the russian actors, we identify certain accounts, we talk to the social Media Companies, they take action, but we dont have people sitting on social media trying to find things that look false and then wondering who did it. We look at the actor and see what theyre trying to spread. The social Media Companies, though, they can come at it in whatever they want in terms of their service. And they have resources that i invoe sometimes, that they can and should and are increasingly bringing to the fight. Its particularly of concern to us in the election context of when americans make the mistake of getting information about elections themselves from social media. So its one thing to push out misinformation about a candidate or policy or something else, but when information gets pushed out about where you go to vote, whether your polling place is opened, whether its closed, that kind of thing were trying to make sure americans know to get information about when and how and where you vote, you need to go to your local election official website and dont take it from social media. Thank you both for being here today. Chair recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Crenshaw for five minutes. Thank you for moving us into a much cooler room. Much cooler. Thank you, director wray, for being here. Id like to ask you about a number of things china, iran, russia. The thing is i think politically theres not much daylight between us on these issues. We largely agree on these threats, but there seems to be disagreement the source of dpo mestic threats were facing that the vast amount of looting and destruction thats occurred over the last few months. Theres been a lot of peaceful protests absolutely true and declared riots. A recent report indicated between 1 and 2 billion of insurance claims has been paid out. Thats just insurance. Weve heard multiple reports of Small Businesses without any insurance whatsoever. Some of these wont open up even if they did get insurance payments, and ive heard many members of this body, of this committee question whether antifa even exists. Director wray, earlier you considered it more of an ideology than a group, correct . Yes. An ideology or maybe a movement. That seems to me to be downplaying it. And this is an ideology that organizes locally, it coordinates regionally and nationally, and its standardized uniform it collects funds to buy high powered lasers to blind federal officers, feed their rioters since they clearly arent working and then bail out those who have been arrested. This is an ideology thats trained its members and makes shield wall and formed an autonomous zone in an American City and besieged an american courthouse in another, so it just seems to be more of an ideology. Do you have another way to dephene what you mean by its not a group . So i want to be clear that by describing it as an ideology or movement i by no means mean to minimize the seriousness of the violence and criminality that is going on across the country some of which is attr attributable t that. You mentioned three categories, the criminality, the peaceful protesting, and you didnt use these words but i will, ideological rioting. That sort of matches the third category that you said, the people who purposely want to insigate it but being clearly one of them. I want to read you the definition of domestic terrorism. Domestic terrorism has three components. A, acts dangerous to human life in violation of the criminal laws to the United States of any state be, appear to be intended. Two, to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion or affect the conduct of a government. And c, occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States. Does that at all match the activities of antifa . Well, certainly matches the activity some of the individuals were investigating and have pursued other kinds of charges against. You put your finger on a little bit of a legal predict which is that there is not currently in title 18 a domestic terrorism offense or crime or such. Theres a definition that seems pretty specific. Well, theres a definition but ironically unlike on the International Foreign terrorist side theres not a crime of domestic terrorism that you can charge. So typically we in domestic terrorism cases including of the sort youre describing, were purring explosive charges, firearms charges, rioting charges you mentioned. Are you prevented from, say, following the money these groups are clearly organizing again. It seems vachg to me we cant call it a group. Were not precluded from following the money. One more question theres not a material superior court to offense like there is we can do Material Support to alqaeda or isis. Theres not the fbi can does that apply to mayors and City Councils who have restrained their Police Department such as mayor wheeler in portland, mayor de blasio in new york and the Minneapolis City Council . Well, respectfully i think thats a legal question id want to defer to the attorney general and department of justice. Chair recognizes the gentleman from california. I want to thank our witnesses today, director wray, director miller for being here today. I want to thank all the good folks that work under you in your agencies for keeping us in this country safe and keeping our families safe as well. And i thank you mr. Chairman, thompson for holding this most important hearing. And your focus today is an essential topic of this Homeland Security which is keeping nis country secure. One of the purposes of this committee is to assess international as well as the domestic threats to the military. One of those threats right now, biggest one i hear about much in my district is Election Security but not only are foreign actors threatening to interfere in our election, but theres a lot of concern in my district about transition power. A lot of my constituents are concerned if he loses in november hell not relinguish power and try to stay in office. Reminded of al gore who lost the election in 2000 by a ruling of 54 United States supreme court. Sime saddened mr. Wolf is not here today because i wanted to ask him a few questions, yes or no. And what i really wanted from mr. Wolf is i wanted to ask him to make the same commitment as general mark milly, the kmarman of the joints chiefs of staff made, and general milly said i believe deeply in the principle of a political u. S. Military in the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, comma, by law u. S. Courts and the u. S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes not the military, and ifore see no role for the u. S. Armed forces in this process. And i was hoping this mr. Wolf would also take that pledge. And mr. Chairman, since hes not here id like to submit for the record that these questions in writing and hopefully you get them to him and he will respond to them. Without objection. And gentlemen, i have a question for both of you. Some time in midaugust the Senate Intelligence committee released its fifth and final version or volume i should say regarding the russian interference into the 2016 election. That center report found that manafort passed sensitive Campaign Information to russian intelligence officers, and my question to both of you was are you monitoring to make sure that its not only foreign interference into our elections but rather that campaigns here in the u. S. Are not trying to ask or solicit foreign support by Foreign Countries of domestic campaigns, question. Well, certainly we pursue what i would call foreign influence investigations both with respect to election interference in the sense that was described in the senate in the report but also in terms of the political corruption or Illegal Campaign financing cases or things like that. Some of those are criminal investigations, some of those are even Counter Intelligence investigations. In certain scenarios i can imagine. So we certainly have a number of people working on those kinds of matters, and thats a threat we take very seriously as part of our overall effort to protect not just our elections but our democracy from foreign elections and interference. The National Counter Terrorism Center we focus on linkages of International Terrorist organizations into domestically but have no role in that and not completely familiar with all the ins and outs, sir. Im running out of time. Very quickly, mr. Miller, then under the definition of terrorism how does the concept of foreign interference of our elections, foreign manipulation of our democracy fit into the concept of terrorism . So we focus on acts of violence committed against american citizens to affect political change from an International Context only. When you talk about influence or whatnot thats a different category that doesnt fall within our remit, sir. Mr. Chairman, i yield. Chair recognizes gentleman from new jersey for 5 minutes, mr. Van drew. Thank you, chairman. Thank you all for being here today. Just very briefly i wanted to go back to the antifa issue, so if we have an organization that is able to communicate among different counties, different states, different areas, different cities, is able to organize when black lives matter and also organize at the same time, advertises for people to help them, and they will pay them, feeds them as was said so eloquently before and takes care of them, that to me would be more than just the loosely knit group of people. I guess we want to define this a little bit that there are in my mind there is antifa, theres a group or individuals that control antifa and that have some authority over it. And it is to some degree without question organized. Would you agree with that . Well, i think what i would say is we have seen folks who subscribe or selfidentify with the Antifa Movement who coalesce regionally into a what we refer to or think of as more of small groups or nodes, and theyre certainly organized at that level. Not to interrupt you, but for example, and i understand that some people selfidentify as commistnists yet there is a real communist organization that is organized at the same time. Right. So what im saying to you maybe to clarify a bit more is just because some people selfidentify doesnt mean that there is more of an organizational aspect to this, that theres something out there that deserves a very thorough investigation. Well, on the last part i would say we are thoroughly investigating. And as i mentioned we have a number, quite a number of properly predicated investigations being conducted by our joint Terrorism Task forces around the country into violent number of those involve people who are tied either by their own admission or otherwise to the Antifa Movement. And in some cases, in some cases, we see those individuals working together in a tactical organized way. So the investigation in those instances might be more of what we might call an enterprise investigation. Let me ask you this question. Black lives matters, which are good words, black lives do matter, black babies, black parents, mothers and grand fathers and fathers and human beings and human souls. So theres nothing wrong with those words. Yet, it is emblematic of an organization that is marxist, get your google out, its a markest organization, and its an organization that believes in an overthrow of the country and also believes that the Nuclear Family or the traditional family that we know it has a place no more. Is there any examples or is there any real interaction with antifa and black lives matters or they just happen to always be at the same place at the same time . Im not sure theres anything i could share on that, certainly in this kind of setting. I guess what i would say to you, and again, its important to understand this, not for you, but for people listening, right, we investigate the violence. Were about the violence. Were agnostic about the ideology. We dont investigate the ideology. When the ideology inspires violence, we will investigate the violence aggressively. When i make comments about movements and ideologies, i want to be very clear that im in no way minimizing the seriousness of the criminal conduct or the violence that were investigating or any way downplaying the aggressiveness or determination of the fbi to investigate those leads fully and pursue whatever charges are available. Because the ideology of antifa is based on changing and breaking down the United States of america, so i think thats something that we have to all just admit, you know, kind of not you all, not saying that to you, but in a cruder way, strap them on and say, yeah, this is what it is, and this is something we have to deal with. One other quick question here, too. Were seeing a lot of emerging threats as the result of evolving communication technology. I just wanted to ask you a few questions. What role have novel Communication Technologies played in the recent rise in domestic extremism . So and are you getting the tools you need to really deal with this. I very much appreciate the question and i think it flows naturally out of the first topic you raised because the coordination, the communication were describing and some of the frustrations we have in really drilling into that is in part due to terrorist actors, whether domestic or international, for that matter, relying on increasingly end to end encrypted messaging platforms, and we are getting to a point where the Technology Companies are creating doesnt matter how awful the conduct, it doesnt matter how tragic the victim, it doesnt matter how bulletproof legally our court order is teat good into t were going to be blinded to it. Thats dangerous, dangerous world for us to be in, and its directly relevant to the act activity youre describing and others too. Ill take the Sutherland Springs shooting. Some of the members of the committee and you may remember, which was one of the deadliest shootings down in texas. The phone that shooter had, we have been trying for now three years to get into it. And this is not just an fbi problem. Its not just a federal Law Enforcement problem. If you talk to state and local Law Enforcement leaders around the country like i do every day, you hear about this issue more and more all the time. So we have to figure out a way to deal with that or were going to create a world where Law Enforcement is blind in its ability to protect kids, families, and communities. Gentlemans time has expired. Im sorry. Thank you very much for your time. Chair recognizes the gentlelady from new mexico. Thank you, director wray and director miller, for being here. Transnational criminal organizations present a continuing threat to our homeland and our border communities. I have discussed efforts to curtail their efforts with acting secretary wolf and was hoping to continue that work today. However, i look forward to working with the department in the future to strengthen our Border Security. As i said many times, to fully understand the threats and our defense capabilities at the southwest border, the Department Needs a milebymile analysis of that border, which is why i recently introduced legislation directing the department to direct some analysis and develop a plan to meet gaps identified in that analysis. I understand cpb conducts a Border Security plan, and i request the department provide it to the committee as soon a possible. Moving on to cybersecurity, director wray, according to u. S. Intelligence officials, chinese and Russian Hackers are using cyber tools to steal american Biomedical Research used for the development of a covid19 vaccine. Officials have also expressed concern about the possibility of chinese and Russian Hackers damaging american efforts to develop a vaccine. What is the department doing to combat foreign hackers and to work with pharmaceutical and academic institutions to strengthen their Cyber Defense capabilities . So congresswoman, youre correct that we are seeing efforts by our foreign adversaries to engage in cyber targeting of Covid Vaccine research, Testing Technology, treatment technology, and efforts to disrupt our National Response to the pandemic. We have recently publicly attributed some of that conduct to chinas most prolific cyber actors. I know that our uk counterparts have publicly attributed some activity there on the same kind of front to russian actors as well. We have tried to be very forward leaning in our engagement and outreach to companies, manufacturers, universities, research centers, et cetera, when we see targeting by these adversaries, cyber targeting, so they can take appropriate steps from a cybersecurity perspective to harden their systems and prevent exfiltration of the information. And so far, i think we have been pretty successful in getting there before valuable information has been lost. But make no mistake, this is a very, very real cyber threat were contending with daily. Thank you, director wray. Congressman higgens and you discussed russian disinformation related to elections. Another way russia is seeking to undermine americans recovery is with covid19 and the Public Health crisis by spreading that same disinformation on the virus and future vaccines to create distrust in the public. Are there any challenges in disrupting russias disinformation, specifically on covid19 and Vaccination Efforts . Well, certainly, misinformation, we share your concerns about misinformation about covid, whether its misinformation about the infectiousness of the disease itself or misinformation about treatments and cures, vaccines. And in some instances, were able to, and we have, pursued cases for various scams and schemes, you know, essentially fraud. People pitching fraudulent tests and cures and people claiming to have the vaccine. Things like that. So we have when theres sort of fraud engaged, were able to use Law Enforcement tools to go after it. But as i said in the election context, and youre right to kind of draw the analogy, were not the truth police. And especially on Something Like medical issues, we defer to cdc and the medical professionals to correct misinformation there. But its important that people get their information in this context from the medical professionals and not from things like social media. Just reclaiming my time briefly, just to stay on russia, and making sure that russia is not spreading disinformation on this, you mentioned that a key strategy of working to disrupt russian voices of disinformation was stopping them before they gained credibility. I wanted to see if in the covid19 space theres an extra challenge there, if for example, russian disinformation is gaining credibility, for example, through antivaxers. Well, certainly, as we discussed, and as you mentioned, the essence of disinformation, the only way it works is to do it through vices that are viewed as credible. So if there were, and im not sure i can think of a specific example off the top of my head, but if there were a situation where a credible voice that people really paid attention to as a medical expert was pushing out under the guise of being a medical expert, flawed, badly flawed and dangerous information, then that would be a source of particular concern. Thank you. My time has expired. Glau thank you very much. Chair recognizes the gentleman from mississippi for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Director wray, i want to direct these questions to you. Were here today talking about threats to the homeland, and i specifically want to discuss recent attacks on our Law Enforcement officials. We saw just this past weekend in california the headlines from fox read compton ambush leaves two Los Angeles County sheriffs deputies fighting for their lives. The story goes on to say a manhunt is under way in california, early sunday, after two Los Angeles County sheriffs deputies were shot in their patrol car by a suspect who opened fire without warning or provocation. The deputies, a 24yearold man and 31yearold woman, were both in Critical Condition at the time of this article. And fighting for their lives as they underwent surgery following the attack. A handful of antipolice protesters show up to the hospital where the deputies were being treated. A local faith leader who came to the hospital to pray for the deputies told a reporter that some of the protesters had been shouting slogans like death to the police. Protesters were blocking the entrance to the hospital emergency room and yelling we hope they die. In june of 2020, the ap reported california deputies shot in ambush attack at police station. A california deputy was shot in the head but survived an ambush by a gunman intent on harming or killing the police. The shooter opened fire around 3 40 a. M. On the back side of the police station. Abc news, july 22nd of this year, Police Officers killed, surge 28 this year and some point to civil unrest and those looking to exploit it. Cnn, february 10th, 2020, attacks on police are a cause for alarm. The article goes on to say an armed assailant approached a police van in the bronx on saturday even and opens fire on two onduty Police Officers. The suspect who remained at large until the following morning then on sunday, police video captures a man later identified as the same suspect, strolling into nypds 41st precinct before opening fire on police, wounding a lieutenant. Fox news, june of this year. Police under siege. They go through incident after incident of attack on police. Buffalo, new york, two Law Enforcement officers are struck by a vehicle monday. And another was run over during a demonstration in front of the buffalo Police Departments edistrict. The trooper who was run over suffered a shattered pelvis and broken leg. Cincinnati, ohio, an officer was saved by a ballistic helmet when a bullet struck the protective covering. Chicago Police Reports monday that 132 of its officers had been injured during violent riots. Davenport, iowa, an Undercover Police officer in an unmarked vehicle was struck twice by gunfire. Las vegas, a las vegas Police Officer was on life support after being shot in the head monday during a protest. Minnesota, shots were fired at Law Enforcement officers near a Minnesota Police station last week. On may 28th, another, which means a Second Police precinct in the city was set ablaze as violent protests surges. New york, a new york Police Officer was seen being struck by a vehicle in what appeared to be a deliberate hitandrun. Oakland, california, several shots were fired at Oakland Police headquarters. A federal Law Enforcement officer was also shot and killed friday night. We see story after story after story of violence against our First Responders. The very men and women who put their safety in jeopardy to protect us are under attack, and so director, i ask you at this time, what intelligence, what information can you share about us, about these attacks and also what can we do as congress to better protect our First Responders . Well, first, let me say although im familiar with every one of those instances you described, just hearing you go through them again is just yet another reminder to me about how tragic this is. And i think its important for americans to take a deep breath for a second and think about what it means for somebody to put his or her life on the line for a complete stranger. And then after they pause and thought about that for a second, to think about what it means to get up every morning and do that day after day after day after day. And as i said in response to i think one of the earlier questions, and you have touched on through your comments, the number of officers feloniously killed in the line of duty this year is up significantly from last year. And thats not even counting all of the officers who are lost to covid because they have to be out on the streets doing their jobs and they cant stay home. Thats not counting all the officers who miraculously survived an attack but whose lives are forever altered. Thats not counting the officers who died in things like vehicle incidents as theyre racing to the crime scene, and as i mentioned, i think, to congressman bishop, one of the things i started doing when i started in this job was i decided i was going to call every time an officer is shot and killed or killed through adversarial action in our country, i was going to call myself, the chief or sheriff, and express my condolences on behalf of the fbi, and each time i do it, i ask my staff to give me a picture, a photograph of the officer, and a description of, you know, their family, so i know how many kids they had, how old their kids were. I had a guy recently who was engaged to be married. Had six months out of his wedding day who was killed. And ill never forget, for example, having to call in your home state to brookhaven, mississippi, where they lost two officers in a single incident in a department of, you know, i want to say less than 30 people. I mean, think about what that means to a Department Like that, where every Single Person knew those two officers. So i understand people in this country are angry and upset and hurt, and i get that, and theres reasons to be angry and upset and hurt. I by no means mean to deminimize their concern and hurt, but the Law Enforcement family is hurt, too. And these people who put on the uniform and go out to protect all of us and our families every day deserve some level of appreciation, and i appreciate your comments. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you very much. Director wray, for the record, i think theres no issue around support for Law Enforcement on this committee. Its consistently been there. Its only when the rules get changed is there a concern. And i might ask mr. Rose to talk a little bit about the rules after 9 11, congress did quite a bit of a job towards supporting the men and women and their families who lost their lives, and all of a sudden in the middle of this, new york gets penalized in terms of the resources that congress had already approved. So its those kind of things. With that, i yield to the gentleman from new york. Chairman, thank you. Director wray, director miller, first of all, we have we do not have a domestic terrorist designation in the United States. We have a Foreign Terrorist Organization designation, thats correct . Okay. Aside from a domestic terrorist designation, which is in our legislative purview something i support, something that some republicans do not support, some democrats do not support. Do you need any other further resources to go after criminal organizations in the United States of america that are organizing to inflict violence on american citizens, Law Enforcement especially . Well, i think i would put resources in sort of two categories. One is funding, right . For Data Analytics which i can explain why thats relevant. To boots on the ground, you know, et cetera. So theres that piece of it. Then i would say there are tools, we always want more tools. And i touched on one of the concerns earlier. Which is this endtoend encryption issue. And especially when you talk about organizations and people communicating with each other, if we move into a world in which bad guys have a choice between putting all of their information and their communications in platforms or devices that are utterly that are warrantproof, that are utterly beyond reach of law, no matter how rock solid the legal case is, i dont think thats a judgment that those companies should be making on behalf of the American People. I think thats something that, say, congress should make. I most certainly agree. Can you please commit to getting us in a memo form or list form the tools you think you need to keep us safe and our Law Enforcement officials safe and our citizens safe from violent criminal organizations in the United States of america . We would be happy to follow up with you. Thank you. So lets see that we can unite around something here. Rather than what it appears were doing. I want to move on to the threat of White Supremacists globally, domestically. Director miller, looking at the existing list of stdgs and ftos, put that list aside. Which organizations are you concerned with, particularly in the White Supremacist Organization front . As you noted, thank you, its nice to have an army veteran here, by the way. Yeah, Russian Imperial Movement, as you know, we designated. Absolutely. Which was, i thought, a real strong statement in a good way. We see the other groups, you see whats going on in germany right now. Which groups . Geez, well, you know they change their names so fast these days to keep ahead of us where. Right. So things like sawnen kreig, if you look at any of those global groups, do you see any connection between these groups in germany, central europe, or otherwise, any connection between these groups and domestic organizations . Nothing monolithic, were not picking up anything of a routine systemic connection. I think what youll see is more ad hoc because theyre all sitting online together chatting, but have not picked up anything deliberate. But you are seeing communications between them. Youre seeing interactions . Youre seeing physical movement of people at all . Other than as you know with Russian Imperial Movement, there have been westerners that have gone out to some of their training. To crimea as well to fight in crimea. Do we know who all those individuals are who have gone to partner with the Russian Imperial Movement or azov and come back here . I cant say that we know all of them. You think thats a problem . Is it probable that we know . No, is that a problem . Would you say that we know everyone or would you say we have a system in place for those who have gone to try to work with isis or al qaeda . Like director wray noted, with communications technology, the way it is right now, i would like to say we know, but i cannot say definitively that we know everyone who has gone overseas to support Foreign Terrorist Organizations. Would you support this administration looking at expanding the list of Foreign Terrorist Organization and stg organizations so as to assist us in fighting this new terrorist threat . I think we have an extraordinarily robust and solid system for doing that. And we look at that regularly to see if we are aligned correctly, if there are any other organizations that have should be designated. To include those organizations that you just referred to earlier that are not presently on the list . Correct. Okay. Thank you. Chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. Garcia, if five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you to Ranking Member rogers for the warm welcome. Really appreciate it as a student of National Security, as a former frontline operator and a steward of developing National Security technologies as a doctrine, it really is an honor to be here, especially during this eraf our nations history. Director bray, director miller, thank you both for being here today, taking the time to help educate us. And keep us aligned and keep both sides of the aisle informed. Really appreciate it. Director wray, i think your comments, the single biggest threat to our nations security right now is our politicians and government leaders, especially at the state and local levels and city levels, to not get their collective programs together and support Law Enforcement. As my colleague from mississippi, mr. Guess, mentioned, its getting ugly out there. Its getting uglier out there, and as leaders of government, if we dont back Law Enforcement and dont make it Crystal Clear and unambiguously that we support those who protect us as a nation, not just through policy but also through funding, then this will get worse. I really appreciate your comments and commitment to that. I also appreciate your condemnation of previous abuses of power by your organization and look forward to fixing those sins of the past. Appreciate you both being here. I would like to pivot to a slightly different conversation and topic, if we can. In my district, i come from southern california. We were unfortunately the site of a mass casualty at a local high school where we lost two of our beloved teens less than a year ago. Where i come from, i was a former naval aviator, and whenever there was a mishap, whenever there was a loss of life, we would convene what was called a Safety Investigation review. This team would go away for six months, nine months sometimes, they would look at every element that led to the mishap, what the pilot ate, what medications he was on, what his family life was like, what his emotional state was, what his Mental Health state was, and they would come pack to the entire fleet and debrief us on the incident, all the Lessons Learned, what went wrong, what went right in some cases, how we could have avoided that situation. In our country, we dont seem to have anything like that for what i would call mass casualty incidents. We have these fatalities at high schools. We have mass casualties in different venues, different types of weapons. We hear about it in the news, it makes front line stories for a couple weeks. And then it goes away. And besides the Close Friends and families and the communities that rim pacted, we sometimes dont remember the specifics and the details. I guess my question is, why dont we have that . Why dont we have sort of a mass casualties Lessons Learned report that becomes Public Domain . We can redact things to protect anonymity and to protect personal private information. But within that, we can get Lessons Learned about what this kid was going through, what his parents saw, what telltales or issues were prevalent, and i bet you we do find common denomnarlts in some of these cases. Something as parents we can read, something as teachers we can read. Class mate can have access to it, and we can all as a nation really understand what led to some of these incidents. Why dont we have that . What do we need to do in order to get to that . And have it available to all 330 Million People who live in this beautiful country. Well, congressman, i appreciate the question. I think we do have some of that, actually. We at the fbi have done a number of studies of not individual selfcontained mass casualty attacks but we have looked at the trend of them, have looked at the collection, the universe of them over a longer period of time and have generated some reports about indicators that might have tipped people off if they had known what to look for, and so we have tried to get some of that information out. A number of the field offices, as i mentioned, i visited all 56 of our field offices, met with partners, Law Enforcement community in each place, and a number of offices are doing, fbi offices, are doing outreach efforts with schools and neighborhoods in their aor, their area of responsibility, to kind of better educate people as to what to look for, because one of the things that we have learned, and frankly, the same thing applies on a lot of the terrorism incidents, is that if you look back, theres almost always someone, a classmate, a family member, a neighbor, a coworker, who saw at least with the benefit of hindsight, saw a change in behavior, a transformation. And you hear us say all the time, if you see something, Say Something. And most of us when we hear that, we picture the unattended backpack in the bus station, and of course, we want people if they see something to Say Something there, but we also need people, if they see something about somebody to Say Something. And so the more we can educate people as to behavioral patterns to be concerned about, a lot of this is very individualized because people are individualized. And so its the people who know the baseline of behavior of the person to know, wait a minute, this has changed now. And i need this is something i should be concerned about. I should go to the School Security officer, i should contact Law Enforcement, et cetera. So thats part of it. Theres also Lessons Learned in terms of hardening our schools, and theres been a lot of work done with our state and local partners on that, so theres kind of an infrastructure piece of it. Theres a lot of work to be done in this space, and its going to take kind of a collaborative Law Enforcement, Education Community partnership to do it. Im out of time, but ill just say i think we need a concerted effort to try to make some of those documents and Lesson Learned truly accessible to every american out there so that were actually benefitting from foresight and not just mizerating on hindsight. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from michigan, ms. Slatcon. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. I really appreciate it, and i know theres been back and forth on whether acting secretary wolf should have been here. Whatever the reason, given that this is a worldwide threats hearing, the secretary should have come here, and this idea that someone under Senate Confirmation cant appear is actually factually incorrect. I know that since i was under Senate Confirmation when i was called to testify many times. Let me ask about i think mr. Wray, you have been really helpful in just being straight and clear about kind of the threats that are going on out there. Can you talk about level of effort on extremist violence, domestic extremist violence . You talked about in this hearing how youre seeing 2019, i think you said, was one of the greatest levels of Domestic Violence we have seen in the country for some time since oklahoma city. Can you tell me how many cases you have open, and if you dont know the exact number, just approximately, you have open on groups that are White Supremacists versus groups that are coming from the left . Just level of effort that the fbi is employing right now. Well, trying to think what i can say, certainly off the top of my head, on numbers. I mean, i will say that, let me start with this. As a general rule, we have each year lately, we have been having roughly 1,000 domestic terrorism investigations a year. Its higher than that this year. Yeah. You know, a good bit north of 1,000 this year. I know that we have had about 120 arrests for domestic terrorism this year. Now, that number of investigations, the 1,000plus and the 120 arrests, thats domestic terrorism across the board, right, everything from racially motivated violent extremists to violent anarchist extremists, militia types, sovereign citizens, you name it. Of the domestic terrorism threats, we last year elevated racially motivated violent extremism to be a National Threat priority commensurate with homegrown violent extremists, thats the jihadist inspired people here, and with isis. Because thats important, right, that what youre saying is the level of threat from domestic terrorists across the board, regardless of ideology, is at the same level as homegrown terrorists that have connections to a Foreign Terrorist Organization . Is that did i hear you correctly . Were treating it as a commensurate priority in terms of warranting our attention and resources. Im assuming youre giving it that attention because it deserves that attention, because the threat has elevated from a time when, i mean, im a former cia officer. We were doing a lot of foreign terrorism nexus stuff, 2005, 06, 07 through the last ten years. Its interesting i think domestic terrorism has elevated in the fbis eyes. Yes. And i think the thing that were all struggling with is, you know, there are these homegrown terrorists of every flavor and type, but just in the number of either cases or arrests, how many of them are White Supremacists . What is, if not the exact number, is it the same as other types of domestic terrorism . Is it higher . Just give us a level of approximate numbers. What i can tell you is that within the domestic terrorism bucket, category as a whole, racially motivated violent extremism is i think the biggest bucket within that larger group. And within the racially motivated violent extremist bucket, people ascribing to some kind of white supremacist type ideology is certainly the biggest chunk of that. Okay. Thats very helpful. I dont have the numbers. Thats very helpful. White supremacists are the largest chunk of the racially motivated domestic terrorists. Yes, and i would also add to that that racially motivated violent extremists over recent years have been responsible for the most lethal activity in the u. S. Now, this year, the lethal attacks, domestic terrorist lethal attacks have all fit, i think, in the category of antigaumpantih antigovernment, antiauthority, which includes violent extremists to militia types. We dont really think in terms of left right. Thats not the way we look at the world. I understand. In my last seconds, ill be submitted for questions for mr. Wolf commensurate with the questions i submitted to chairman milley on the role of Homeland Security in and around our elections and the peaceful transition of power. Thanks very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. In line with ms. Slotkins question, mr. Wray, you know Congress Passed a law, the data act. Its referred to as the domestic and International Terrorism act. That requires the production of a report identifying everything that ms. Slotkin talked about. Are you familiar with that . I am familiar with it. Yes, mr. Chairman. And you know were three months late on the production of that report. And so im certainly aware of the report and the requirement. I will say that, and im aware its delayed and behind schedule. I know that the first report of the ones that are called for, its my understanding its complete. And that its in the interagency approval process, so it should be forthcoming soon. Unfortunately, with covid, of course, when the ndaa was passed, no one anticipated the impact of covid, and the people that and the impacts that would have on our workforce. Thats been a big part of the delay, but i understand the importance of it and i know we have been engaging with you and your staff in terms of providing briefings and so forth as well, and well get it to you as fast as we can. I think its important all members of grcongress have acce just to the data and if they have followups from it, its fine, but congress has spoken. And i hope you follow. The gentleman recognizes the the chair recognizes the gentleman from new york for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you both for being here today. I appreciate it very much. Spend a lot of my waking hours down here in washington on antiterrorism matters and Election Security and cybersecurity, so i could talk to all of you for hours, but i do want to pause for a second, director wray, to just commend the work of the fbi agents on a regular basis. You dont hear that enough, and you should. For 20 years before i came to congress, i was a federal organized crime prosecutor, and some of the best cases i ever did had heavy involvement by the fbi, including police corruption, political corruption, gang cases, and homicides. So i just want to commend the staff, the line agents day in and day out who do all the great work, and i please convey my thank you to them. Theres plenty of ways i can go here, but one thing thats by gnawing at me and i want to touch on quick for both of you because i have another question. That s when the new york city Police Department was cut by one sixth or a billion dollars of their budget, and knowing that new york city is the primary target in the world for terrorists to attack, im just curious if either one of you have had any sort of information or concerns that have arisen because of the lack of funding they now have . Start with director wray. Well, first, let me say i appreciate your kind words about the hard working men and women of the fbi. We and our folks had a tough job before this year. And certainly covid didnt make it any easier. And im really proud of the hard work thats gone on in terms of keeping our people and their families safe, but not letting up on the mission. And the results are pretty extraordinary, frankly. As far as new york, as somebody who grew up in new york city and still has family there, i care deeply about the safety of that city in a very personal way. And certainly, i dont think its appropriate for the fbi director to wade into sort of political debates, local or otherwise, but i think our Police Officers, including the nypd Police Officers, are extraordinary Public Servants who have a very, very tough job to have, to undertake, and i think people really ought to think carefully about the ramifications of making that job harder. Okay, thank you. Mr. Miller. Thank you, congressman. And obviously, last friday, as we recognized the 19th anniversary, our hearts went out to new york city, and we were disappointed we werent able to go up, but of course, with covid19 and whatnot, we werent able to do that. Im hopeful that next year, at the 20th anniversary, well be in an entirely different place in this global war against terrorism and well have some good news on al qaedas demise. I just wanted to highlight, we have the most unbelievable partnership with the nypd. We have an analyst, shes magical. Embedded into the National CounterTerrorism Center, and we talk to nypd probably three or four times a day. I am not familiar with in total honesty, im not familiar with the cuts, look into that, absolutely, and if theres anything we can do to support, obviously, we will, because between the joint Terrorism Task force and nypd, they are just remarkable partners and we want to help them any way we can. Director wray, i spend a lot of time on Election Security. Its one of my greatest concerns. Everything from making sure that the machines dont get hacked into, and im relatively confident on that, to the high concern i have about the possible obstruction in the process of the election by foreign actors such as russia, iran, and china. And im also concerned about, like in new york state, for example, theres a delay of eight days before they start counting absentee ballots after the election, which delays the results, which delays individuals belief in the results, and im concerned about that. But if i could just ask you this question, i know you have testified on a lot of different aspects, whats your biggest concern rights now about Election Security Going Forward for this fall . You know, obviously, there are a lot of aspects of it that were concerned about, and you touched on some of them. But i think in many ways what concerns me the most is the steady drumbeat of misinformation and sort of amplification of smaller cyber intrusions that contribute over time, i worry that they will contribute over time to a lack of confidence of American Voters and citizens in the validity of their vote. I think that would be a perception, not a reality. I think americans can and should have confidence in our election system, and certainly in our democracy. But i worry that people will take on a feeling of futility because of all of the noise and confusion thats generated. And thats a very hard problem to combat. Thank you very much. Thank you. Chair recognizes the gentleman from missouri, mr. Cleaver. Mr. Cleaver, you need to unmute yourself. Well, we will well go to mr. Green. Well go to mr. Green for five minutes. Yes, mr. Chairman. Can you hear me . Yes, we have you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank the witnesses for appearing. And im especially interested in a topic related to violent activity. I have in my hand, mr. Chairman, a story from the Washington Post dated september 14th, 2020. And it is styled, trump health appointee, michael caputo, warns of armed insurrection after election. The relevant portion of the story that is quoted reads, and when donald trump refuses to stand down at the inauguration, the shooting will begin. He warned in video. The drills that you have seen are nothing. If you carry guns, buy ammunition, ladies and gentlemen, because its going to be hard to get. Mr. Director of the fbi, you pride yourself on your independence, do you not . Im sorry. Congressman, i had a little bit of a hard time hearing the end of the question. I said you pride yourself on your independence, do you not . I do pride myself on my independence. You will investigate anybody or any opportunity to prevent a crime, is this correct . We will follow the facts and the law and nothing else, and we will aggressively pursue any criminal activity. Can you explain to me, kindly, sir, why you have not pursued the facts and the law as it relates to mr. Caputo and these statements . He appears to be warning us of some sort of impending crisis related to violence. Well, i dont want to, sir, try to engage in whether or not theres any particular investigative activity going on that might be somehow related to all that. What i would say is that we dont investigate rhetoric. And we will investigate when we have proper predication of a federal criminal violation. And you can be assured that if we have a situation where we have the facts and the law and the evidence that we will pursue it without regard to any other consideration. Permit me to ask this. Mr. Caputo is a part of what a part of the administration. He appears to be on some sort of leave right now. He has indicated that theres going to be violence. It would seem to me that at least an interview would be in order. Why have you not interviewed him . Congressman, im not particularly familiar with the Public Comments that youre referring to. But as i have said, if we see credible evidence of violent criminal activity that is a federal crime, we will pursue that activity. Mr. Chairman, may i kindly insert the Washington Post article in the record without objection . Without objection. Thank you. Back to you, again, mr. Director of the fbi. My hope is that my calling this to your attention today will give you sufficient reason. You have a member of the United States congress who is bringing to you intelligence that has been reported publicly that a member of the administration has made comments that there will be violence if there is a refusal to stand down by a person who is associated with the presidency. My hope is this is sufficient for you to at least interview someone. Let me move to the director of National Counterterrorism. Would this intelligence not seem to indicate there may be some sort of activity that would fall under your umbrella if this is credible information, mr. Director miller . Sir, thanks for the question. My focus in remit is connections between International Terrorist organizations and any u. S. Domestic violent extremists or homegrown violent extremists. I have to ask now rhetorically, what does it take to investigate someone who is associated with this administration who makes these kinds of comments . This seems to be fairly serious to me. I likely will be at the inauguration. And we have a person who is associated with the administration who is indicating that bullets are going to fly. And shooting will begin, these are his words. It would seem to me that this should be sufficient. So im going to ask as a member of congress that the fbi perform its duty as an independent agent, fearing none, having favor for none, investigate this and please report to me if you would, if the committee does not desire to know, would you kindly report to me what your findings are to the extent you can. I yield back, mr. Chair. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes mr. Cleaver for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I apologize for my technological failure earlier. Let me also first of all say i would like to thank you, mr. Chairman, for your leadership. I look at leadership as being measured by how they function during a crisis, and were in a crisis, and i think you handled it magnificently. You know, director wray, let me just say, the polarization in our country is rising. Frighteningly, and at least and i think its helping to create a new and growing and dangerous tribalism in our country now. And were becoming a nation where people want to live in neighborhoods where people have similar ideologies and we loathe different political parties. And we have a small circle in which we might function in a community, but we accept it, even praise it, when its done to achieve some political means. Let me just say, i have to say i appreciate you and the way you have handled the department. I can tell you, i trembled at night because we have seen many of our institutions damaged over the last few years. And people in positions of significance have allowed those organizations to bend to the will of politicians. And i dont i have not seen that with the fbi. I think you have played it straight and tried to do it as well. This is what i wanted to talk about when the hearing started. I would like for you to address, if you can, you know, where the fbi stands in terms of the morale and whether the fbi is now in a situation where we can depend on it to continue its central objectivity, and i also end by just saying that your presentation today is something that i want to express appreciation for. But where is the fbi right now in terms of morale in the streets, doing all the work that needs to be done to protect the United States of america . Well, congressman y want to tell you i very much appreciate your kind words to our folks. And the question. I will say that i could not be more proud of our people, and you know, whenever you ask questions about Something Like morale, its a hard thing sometimes to measure. But ill give you a few pieces of information that i think are extremely good news. One is that last year, and this has been a trend over the few years of my tenure as fbi director, our attrition rate is down to 0. 45 or well less than 1 . And there are very few organizations in this country that have an attrition rate that low, but an even better piece of news is on the recruiting side. Last year, we had triple, triple the number of people in this country applying these are qualified applicants to be special agents of the fbi. The prior year, the highest number in about a decade. And this year, were on track to be even higher. And so i think thats a very positive signal about the brand of the fbi and the currency of the fbi out all across the country and among the public. You know, just in the middle of covid, our folks have, you know, opened Something Like 750 covid fraud investigations. 600plus violent gang members arrested just in the course of a single month. I mentioned the terrorist attacks we thwarted. I think in fiscal year 20, we recovered Something Like 500 plus kids who were victims of human trafficking. I can go on and on and on, but theyre do all that despite the challenges of the current environment. And i say im honored, but really, im humbled to be working with them. Thank you. I would also thought it would have been great if secretary wolf had been here. I think unfortunately, tragically and painfully, his absence does continue to do damage to the democracy. I would like to yield back to you at this time, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes the gentlelady from illinois, ms. Underwood. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Your agencies have identified domestic violent extremism, particularly white supremacy, as a leading threat to our homeland. Last month, a teenager from my district, in antioch, illinois, went to kenosha, wisconsin, where he allegedly killed two people with an ar15 style rifle amid the protests there. We have seen too many examples of this kind of deadly violence being fueled by online extremism. And now, we know that combatting domestic extremism requires a thoughtful approach in order to safeguard american civil liberties. Director wray, in splabing the fibs approach, you say, quote, the fbi is only concerned when responses caused from ideas and constitutionally protected protests to violence. In the days before the shootings in kenosha, the Atlantic Councils Digital Forensic research lab found militias were publicly organizing on social media for armed individuals to travel to kenosha. A socalled militia leader wrote, quote, Law Enforcement is outnumbered. Take up arms and defend our city tonight from the evil thugs. Another user wrote, quote, im on the way with 75 people from green bay. We have lots of guns. Lots of pipe bombs, going to cleanse the streets of rioters. A third user wrote, quote, attention, all nonwhites and dejenerates of kenosha, you have until sundown to pack up your belongings and leave the area. After that, anything that happens to you or your children will be your fault, and a fourth wrote, shoot to kill, folks. Director wray, are these ideas or are they threats of violence . Im sorry, congresswoman. The very last part, the question itself, i couldnt quite hurt. Director wray, are these ideas or threat of violence . Well, without reference to any specific case, certainly language about violence can in certain instances be part of the offense and can be threats. We pursue threats to commit violence, not just the actual commission of violence. To your knowledge, did facebook at any point provide any of these kenoshaspecific threats to federal Law Enforcement . I cant sitting here right now speak to any specific tips or threats. I will say that we get lots of leads and tips from facebook, and we work closely with them on a lot of terrorism issues. In light of the violence that occurred at similar events this year, i think we can all agree that statements like these are concerning. And thats why its so important to share this information as soon as possible with local officials like those in kenosha. So they can make effective plans to keep their communities safe. And i want to be clear, im speaking here about statements publicly posted online, often under users real names, not about private communications. Director wray, what steps, if any, did the fbi take to alert state and local officials in wisconsin about these specific threats of violent activity in their area . Well, congresswoman, theres a few things i would say on this topic. First, just to be clear, you know, we dont have people we fbi dont have the resources or the authority to just sit on social media and troll for threatening information. I know youre not suggesting that, but what im just making sure that the people out there understand. Sir, we have limited time. Could you answer the question . Im sorry . We have limited time. If you could answer the question. Yes, but so what we do do, we have in addition to the relationships we have with social Media Companies, we have something called antoc, our National Threat operation center, that has both callin lines, you know, 1800callfbi and a version director wray, excuse me, sir. I asked if you took steps to alert the local officials. Yes, so what im getting to is the National Threat operation center, when it gets threats and tips of the sort that youre describing, we have a mechanism, we have a mechanism by which we feed that information as quickly as possible to state and local Law Enforcement so they can take appropriate action. We have a system called eguardian. Reclaiming my time, the director is not answering specifically whether or not the fbi alerted state and local officials in wisconsin. I would like that noted for the record. The day after the kenosha shootings, i heard from a mother in the alleged shooters hometown that said theres a militia cell in antioch that is becoming more and more emboldened to take the law in their hands and im fearful to send my kids to the same schools as white supremacist militia members. They pose critical threats to our homeland. To stop deadly extremist fileance, federal Law Enforcement and their partners must seize on opportunities to intervene before the violence begins. Im looking forward to working with you, director wray, on improving our ability to prevent violent threats from becoming violent actions. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. And im so disappointed that not all of our witnesses fulfilled their duty to help this committ people understand the threats to our National Security and i yield back. Thank you very much, general lady yields wab. Recognizing general lady from new york, ms. Clark for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank our Ranking Member rodgers. As our nation faces immeasurable threats to the risks of Cyber Attacks crippling our critical infrastructure. This Committee Contacts oversight and ensures the executive branch is doing its job. But congress can only fulfill our constitutional role if you appear before us when subpoena pd i thank director wray and miller for appearing before us today. Also id like to condemn in the strongest possible terms mr. Wolfs refusal to appear before us and comply with the lawfully issued subpoena. His refusal to testify is yet another example of the lawlessness that has infected the department of Homeland Security. Mr. Wolf may not want to answer for his departments actions for removing the detainees to manipulating intelligence to minimize russian meddling in our e election but when a Congressional Committee subpoenas you the law says you must show up and with that i turn to my questions. My first question is actually for you, director wray. And its a bit pa parochial and what do do wihas to do with my district. Yesterday i joined in a letter to the new york city Police Department signed by two new york state legislators, two members of congress and members of the new york city council, regardless regarding, excuse me alleged cooperation between the fbi and the nypd in the community in my district. Specifically, it alleged in light of new yorks new state level bail laws, investigations that would have previously been handled by local officials, the nypd, are now being turned into federal cases. Are you aware of any arrangement of this major between the bureau and the nypd . Im not familiar with the specific issue youre referring to at least in new york. I will say that okay. Well will you look into it and get back to me on this . Id be happy to take a look. You said there was a letter that youd written this was sent actually sent to our local police commissioner, but the, there was a Public Statement made by one of our Police Officials that they are working with the fbi, and so id like to get some clarity around what this arrangement is, if it exists at all. Okay. Well, ill have my staff followup with your staff to get a little more information and see if there is information we could provide that would be helpful to you. Wonderful. I appreciate that. Id like to ask a question about the recent resurgeriens of White Supremacists against africanamericans, Jewish Americans latinos and so many others. Politico recently obtained a draft dhs 2020 homeland threat assessment which describes White Supremacists as the deadliest domestic terror theft currently facing the nation, but subsequent drafts diminish this warning. What is your assessment of the deadliest domestic terrorist threat currently facing the nation and have you ever faced political pressure or been, or have received a request from any other element of the u. S. Government to alter the assessment . Well, first, let me say my commitment to calling it straight extends not just to our investigations but to our intelligence assessments. Thats been my commitment since day one and it continues, and will continue, as long as im sitting in this role. And we have continued to take that approach to all of our intelligence assessments on my watch. As far as the the issue about danger and domestic terrorism threats what i would say is that we assess that the most dangerous threat to the homeland encompasses lone actors radicalized often online with reasonable weapons gns soft targets. Including jihadist inspired and domestic extremists within all sorts. Within the domestic violent extremists we assessed racially motivated, racially and ethnically motivated by extremists is, has been responsible for the most lethal activity over the last several years, and thats why we and i asked specifically about White Supremacists. Are they included in that threat assessment . Yes. So within within the racially and ethnically motivated violent extreme s i would say the biggest chunk of those, i cant give a percentage, the biggest chunk of individuals who are motivated by some form of white supremacist ideology and thats, that group, the racially motivated by extremeist has been responsible for the most lethal activity in the last few years. I will say as a point of clarification this year, the lethal attacks weve seen i think have all been from antigovernment or antiauthority types. But go back over the last few years racial ly by those moast recently in the homeland. I give back the balance of my time. Recognizing general lady from las vegas, ms. Titus for five minutes. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Can you hear me . Yes, we can. Thank you. Im sorry. I, too, am sorry, mr. Wolf not being here because i wanted to ask him about the limitation on j1 visas, several dozen features from coming to clark county and i dont think special ed teachers are a threat to the homeland, but nonetheless. Director wray, despite your protest to the contrary that the fbi is not being politicized, weve seen increasing politicization of the Justice Department under attorney general barr. This crossed a longstanding line that has not we dont expect or see or tolerate from our Law Enforcement. The yesterday the attorney general told federal prot curious verley a quote be aggressive charging certain demonstrators with crimes including the crime of sedition. Now, sedition, you know, is about act of inciting revolt or violence against a Lawful Authority with the goal of destroying or overthrowing it. Now, put that in the context of the fact that fbi officials earlier this year described the perpetrators of some of thesens opportunistic taking advantage of the protests. Then a report by Armed Conflict event project monitoring political upheaval around the world, they looked at 7,750 protests from may 26th to august 22nd and 2,400 locations. In all 50 states, and in washington, and found that 93 of the protests were peaceful. Third, we, weve seen a statement by the federal prosecutor, federal attorney from eastern virginia who said well, if youre Eastern District of virginia, mr. Rosenberg, who said, if, that barr is saying if you have a sedition case bring it. Thats okay. But if hes urging people to stretch to bring one thats deeply dangerous to our constitution. I wonder if under these new directives from attorney general barr whos apparently trying to shore up the president s law and order image, youre going to change your approach to dealing with some of the people involved in these demonstrations . If youre going to look at building a case for sedition . Its difficult to prove, but maybe youll set out to do that . If you kind of describe how this might make a difference in the crimes that you pursue against some of these people . Well, congresswoman, im not familiar with the, the conversation thats been attributed to the attorney general. You know, in the press. So i cant really comment on that specifically. I will say my commitment, our commitment, is to pursue justice in every investigation. To follows the facts, the law and follow proper predication and we have a commitment to protect the American People and uphold the constitution and were going to do both in every investigation that includes in this context. Could you talk a little bit about the crime of sedition and what it would take to prove it . And do you see any cases pending out there now that might fit under this kind of charge . Well, i will confess that im not a legal expert on the crime of sedition. So im not sure that i would have to brush up on that to be able to really answer your question in the intelligent way i think you would expect of me. Certainly there is dangerous violent criminal activity that is occurring amidst some of the protests around the country, and we, i think, have a responsibility to pursue that activity aggressively, but appropriately. Even if numerically even if numerically it may not be the lions share of the protesters by any stretch of the imagination, it doesnt take more than one person to engage in sometimes lethal activity against others. So we have a responsibility to pursue that, but you can be confident were going to pursue that based solely on the facts the law and appropriate effort and not based on any kind of improper or partisan consideration. Would you think that mayor durkin or governor jay inslee are domestic terrorists because of whats happened in seattle suggested perhaps by this administration . Im not familiar with the particular comments that youre rearing to so i really cant comment on that. Well, im asking, do you think they would fit the category of domestic terrorism based on whats been happening in seattle . Im sorry. Do i thwhos domestic terrorists . Mayor durkin and governor inslee. I i wouldnt be describing them that way, but i will say, i dont tend to comment on people as ascribe labels of terrorists or activity to people except when speaking through our charges. Thats how i would communicate about that. I appreciate that. I wish some other members of the administration felt the same way. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Chair recognizes general lady from new jersey, mr. Watson coleman. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for the service that you render. The job that you do. Your willingness to be here and have an exchange of views. Mr. Wray, i have a series of followup questions. Congresswoman underwood asked you about investigations, and you did not answer whether or not you would be pursuing those investigations at her request. So is that a yes or a no . I will confess, congresswoman that i was having an extremely hard time hearing congresswoman underwood. I dont know if it was the quality of the audio connection, or, perhaps, because she was appropriately wearing a mask that i couldnt hear through the mask. So i will confess i really couldnt understand the question very well, and i was doing my best to answer it to the best of my ability. So probably makes more sense for me to followup with her staff offline to make sure that i understood the question. Good. Thank you. What about congressman al greens request that you investigate the statements that mr. Caputo made while he was a spokesman at the dhs impacting what the cdc was saying, and his notion of, there would be violence and that the scientists were actually i think the terminology is creating, were seditious in their actions . Will you be investigating that . I know you said you didnt know the comments that were made, but now that you know, will you be investigating that . Well, first congresswoman, let me say, as you may know, we dont ever confirm or deny the existence of investigations. So when we get requests from members of congress to investigate something, which happens all the time, we will take the evidence thats submitted. If something has credible evidence of a crime well review the evidence and decide what to do about it. Okay. Then can you tell me a couple of things. Number one is, do you do you feel that voting by mail as a result of the pandemic and in anticipation of having the largest turnout in voting at a time when we have this pandemic, do you believe that there is a widespread fraudulence and abuse historically in voting by mail . Thats a yes or a no. Well, im not with respect, im not sure it easily lends itself to a yes or no question, but i will answer the question. We take all electionrelated crimes seriously including voter fraud, whether inperson or i guess my question is, my question is, it is a yes or no question. Is there this sort of experience, historical record, of wide of wide abuse of widespread abuse of voting by mail . Yes or no . We have not seen a, to date thank you. A coordinated National Voter fraud effort in a major election. We have certainly investigated yes. We have certainly investigated, if i may finish, we certainly have investigated voter fraud committed by mail. Its typically been at the local level and and very isolated circumstances, i suspect. Im just wondering how often you get to speak to the attorney general and if you would use your good graces and the respect we have for you to sort of ask him to stop spreading such misinformation about voting integrity. I want to ask you a couple of questions about White Supremacists and first of all, let me asking awe black lives matter. Does black lives matter represent an organization to you . Is that a yes or a no . I understand that there is an organization that calls itself black lives matter. Okay. Do you have it listed as a terrorist organization . No. Do you have any reason to believe that it is a terrorist organization . Well we dont we dont categorize domestic organizations as terrorist organizations under the law, because theres no mechanism for that. Okay. Have you found any individuals that have aligned themselves with black lives matter as a perpetrator of any of the violent actions that youve seen take place in what was peaceful demonstrations, organized by black lives matter . Allies . I cant sitting here right now speak to specific cases. I know that we have had a wide range of domestic violent extremists amidst current protest activity engaging in violence or destruction of property, and whether in any one of those cases somebody may have aligned themselves or associated themselves with black lives matter, sitting here right now i cant think of one but i dont know for sure. Thank you. Do you know whether or not theyve been aligned with white sprimists boog alu, militia groups or whatever sort of rightwing groups . Well, weve had a number of investigations involves some of the activity were talking about. Domestic violence extremism, that in some instances, as ive mentioned, are people who are associating themselves with various anarchist ytologiideolo and antifa, like boog boog ga l. I mentioned about the minneapolis individuals, for example, who associated themselves with the boogaloos and enstar inned in support of hamas and other cases weve had involving boogaloo activity, perhaps the individuals who, the individual who killed the fps officer out in oakland, may have referenced booga loo inspiration. General ladys time expired. Chair recognizes thank you, mr. Chairman. Yes. The chair recognizes general lady from florida, ms. Democratedemocratdemins. Thank you. I have to say im disappointed mr. Wolf ignored our subpoena. I have always expected and kind of prided the fact that the department of justice Homeland Security, those of the intelligence agency, would act above the fray, act above politics, keep us safe, hold bad actors accountable and eagerly appear to tell their own story on behalf of the men and women that they work for, and the American People. So director miller and director wray, thank you both for being with us today. I can also say that i am grateful for the work that the men and women in Law Enforcement do every day, and i can say that, and hold them accountable when they are engaged in wrongdoing, all at the same time. The men and women in Law Enforcement do not deserve nor need to be used as political pawns as i believe we have heard too much today. I think they are clear on who they work for, and thats, they work on behalf of the American People. Before i get into my line of questioning for the reasons we are here today, director wray, following up on my colleague ms. Titus line of questioning about the attorney generals agenda. You know, were in a strange place right now. We are just hearing strange things all the time. And what i did hear recently, the attorney general say that really concerned me. He said, like i say to the fbi agents, whos agents do you think you are . Now, director wray, as we think about Law Enforcement and the very nonpartisan role that Law Enforcement is engaged in or should be, to alleviate confusion to the American People, ho do you respond to that comment from the attorney general . Im not familiar with that particular comment from the attorney general. I will say we, the fbi, work for the American People. Okay. Thank you so much for clearing that up. Secondly, i know both of you have said that pretty much the biggest threat or these persons who, we would consider as lone wolves, lone individuals, homegrown, violent extremists, how much would you say that they have taken advantage, when you look at the number of protests that weve seen around the country, how much would you say, and i admit the acoustics are not the best in here. How much would you say they have taken advantage of the number of protests to really spread their own perperous calls, megs and what can you anticipate as we get closer to the election from them . Well, certainly we have seen amidst some of the protests in some cities at certain times dangerous, violent extremism committed by people from a variety of ideology who are hijacking those protests as cover or best word i could use is cover for their own ability to engage in violence and dangerous criminality. I think one of the phenomenons that that lends itself to is not just dangerous to Small Businesses, dangerous to Law Enforcement, which we talked about already, but frankly danger to the other protesters as well. The people who are there peacefully then find themselves in the line of fire. So its activity we need to pursue aggressively using every tool, lawful and appropriate tool we have in the toolbox. One of the things we started to see more and more of that i am concerned about, this goes to your question about what can we expect to see in the future, in addition to people committing violence against government buildings and Law Enforcement, which is a real problem, and people need to understand that its really happening, and having real consequences. Youre also seeing now different violent Extremist Groups, or individuals, committing violence against each other. You know . In other words, one group shows up to pick a fight with the other group, and who knows which is chicken and which is egg, but now youve got an additional level of combustible violence as opposed to maybe just one category of violent extremists hijacking a particular protest. Now you have both groups from opposite sides adding to the combustibility and the danger of the situation. And so we certainly have seen that in a number of cities, and thats just a, thats a force multiplier in a bad way that im concerned about Going Forward. Thank you so much. Mr. Chairman, may i ask one more question . Director miller may be acting director of National Intelligence contacted a socalled reorganization of the National Center for terrorism, National CounterTerrorism Center, without consulting congress, reportedly cutting resources and staff. What is the impact of the reorganization at the nctcs operation . Thank you, congresswoman. And we owe you a briefing on that and be happy to do that. Ive been there five weeks and thought the reorganization, cleaned up some stuff. Other than a few, we had some seats that werent filled for a long time. Those kind of went away. So i have not seen a major, any major issue at all with our effectiveness or efficiency and happy to talk to you more about that. Great. You do dploit working with congress to discuss the resources . Absolutely, yes, maam. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you very much. Chair recognizes general lady from texas. Mr. Chairman, thank you for your generosity. I just want to put on the record one question and introduce elements in to the record. The doj contemplated or has it opening investigation into domestic terrorism charges against bln . I would like that on the record for response by both witnesses today. Black lives matter. And if so, what is the status . New york times, introduce this. New york times federal officers deployed in portland didnt have proper training, dhs mec memo said and Washington Post i. C. E. Flew detainees to virginia so planes could transport agents to d. C. Protests, huge coronavirus outbreak followed. Abc news, protests from ka noesh st kenosha to portland. Tells a different story who was actually involved in that. Fbi names, qanon, domestic terrorist threat, and may 30, 2019. Years after being debunk, interest in pizzagate is rising again and finally political devices and divergent news sources heading into the 2020 election. 43 ofofvoting by mail a problem by remembers thersz s v by democrats. Npr what is qanon the conspiracy tiptoeing into the trump world . I ask unanimous consent these it periodicals are submitted into the record. Without objection. So ordered. Thank you. Also, consent adding to the record a statement, for the record, from brian levin, direct herb of the study of hate and extremism at California State University san bernardino, without objections. So ordered. I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony, and the members for their questions. The members of the committee may have additional questions for the witnesses, and we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. Hearing no further business, the committee stands adjourned. Youre watching cspan3, your unfiltered view of government created by american Cable Companies as Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. The statue of Young Eisenhower as a teenage boy sitting on a stone block looking in the direction of two of his greatest accomplishments, president of the United States and Supreme Commander of the allied expeditionary forces. Today at 7 00 prm eastern on cspan2 watch live coverage of the dedication ceremony for the new dwight d. Eisenhower memorial in washington, d. C. Just off the Washington Mall and at the base of capitol hill. Speakers include the designer, former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice and memorial chair senator pat roberts and president eisenhowers grandchildren david and susan nh