Transcripts For CSPAN3 FBI Director Wray Testifies On National Security Threats 20240712

The dedication of the dwight d. Eisenhower memorial live online at cspan. Org or listen live on the cspan radio app. The House Homeland Security Committee Hearing just wrapped up with fbi director crist mer wray taking questions. Acting Homeland Security secretary chad wolf subpoenaed to testify in todays hearing but did not appear. The committee is chaired by congressman bennie thompson. As i said, the committee of Homeland Security will come to order. Without objection, the chairs authorized to declare the committee in recess at any point. Good morning. Before we good morning. Begin, i want to say our thoughts with those americans dealing with devastating natural disasters, including the wildfires in the west and Hurricane Sally in the south. As chairman, i remain committed to ensuring they receive the federal help needed to respond, recover and build back stronger. Today the committee on Homeland Security is meeting for its annual hearing on worldwide threats to the homeland. Our nation recently observed the 19th anniversary of the terrorist attacks of september 11, 2001. Nearly two decades later, we continue to mourn the nearly 3,000 lives lost that terrible day, and keep their loved ones in our prayers. This committee and the department of Homeland Security were established in the wake of 9 11 to help prevent future attacks on our soil. Regardless of who was chairman weve held regular hearings examining worldwide threats with leaders from the department of Homeland Security, fbi and National Counterterrorism center, and regardless of who was occupied in the white house, whether democrat or republican, weve received cooperation in that effort. Today was supposed to be no different. Unfortunately, as we see from the empty chair in front of us, mr. Chad wolf is not here to represent the department of Homeland Security. Let me be clear about how we got here. The committee began engaging with the department over three months ago on june 10, 2020, to secure mr. Wolfs participation in this hearing, alongside his colleagues from the fbi and National Counterterrorism center. Any assertion that the administration committed to having dhs, fbi and nctc testify before this committee as a worldwide threat hearing in july is false. Dhs tentatively offered a couple of dates, but then could not agree with its fbi and nctc counterparts on date for the hearing in june or july. In fact, it was the department of Homeland Security that conveyed to the committee that september 17th was the earliest mr. Wolf would be available to testify at this hearing. In the interests of receiving mr. Wolfs testimony, the committee agreed to the awkward date. It was not until last week that the department informed the committee that mr. Wolf would be reneging on the commitment to testify in anticipation of being nominated for secretary of Homeland Security. I would note despite his refusal to testify today, mr. Wolf has spoken to the media on multiple occasions since President Trump announced he intended to nominate mr. Wolf to be secretary of Homeland Security, including no fewer than four appearances on fox news. Mr. Wolf has run the department of Homeland Security for the last ten months and has been responsible for numerous decisions directly relevant to the subjects the committee intends to explore. With that in mind, last week i wrote mr. Wolf to make clear that there is no legal prohibition barring a nominees testimony, and to urge him to honor his commitment. In response, the department, again, declined to provide mr. Wolf to testify at this hearing. Faced with continued refusal, on friday i issued a subpoena for his appearance in accordance with house and Committee Rules. Regrettably, he has chose ton defy the subpoena. That he would refuse to come before the committee after committing to do so should appall every member of this committee. Insisting there wolf keep his commitment to testifying before congress isnt playing politics. Its doing our job. Congress has the authority and obligation to execute its constitutional oversight responsibilities regarding mr. Wolfs decision and the departments action during his tenure. As chairman, its my responsibility to ensure the committee fulfills its constitutional responsibilities. 19 years after the attacks of 9 11, we continue to face grave threats to the homeland, including the rise of domestic terrorism, ongoing foreign interference in the 2020 elections, and a coronavirus pandemic that has claimed nearly 200,000 american lives. As a person running the department of Homeland Security, mr. Wolf should be here to testify as secretaries of Homeland Security have done before. Instead, we have an empty chair, and an appropriate metaphor for the trump administrations dereliction on so many of these critical Homeland Security issues. Mr. Wolf may attempt to evade oversight and the department may try silly stunts to distract from this hearing, but we will not waiver. The sta waver. The stakes are just too high. The administrations only political appointees are coming forward to sound the alarm that our National Security is being compromised in favor of the president s political interests. Americans who care about securing the homeland and upholding our most sacred values expect their representatives to hold the department of Homeland Security and this administration accountable. Be assured under my chairmanship i will not waver in my commitment to doing so today or in the future. To that end, i am pleased that director wray and director miller are here today. I look forward to their testimony, and the members questions. The chair now recognizes Ranking Member of the full committee the gentleman from alabama mr. Rodgers for an Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before i get started i wanted to acknowledge our newest member of the mountaicommittee, mr. Garciw will be a great addition to our work in the future. Since the heinous attacks of september 11th wee have made Great Strides towards global jihadist operations and stop threats before they reeach our shores. However, to date, global jihadists are joined by cyber hackers, tribal nation states and trends, National Criminal organizations. Together they present incredible new risks to our economy, safety and our way of life. Make no mistake, the threats to our homeland have never been more real than they are today. Thats why its important that we as members of this committee understand those threats. It is our job to ensure that dhs, fbi and our Intelligence Community have the resources and authorities they need to continue to dismantle terrorist organizations and protect our homeland. I look forward to hearing more about the administration, how the administration is countering the threat from al qaeda, china, iran and others who seek to do us harm. Mr. Chairman, im also disappointed that dhs is not here today but i want the record to be clear on why dhs is not represented. It is not the bulk of the department or this Administration Acting secretary wolf offered to testify before this committee in both july and august. Unfortunately the majority refused to make either of those dates work. Now due to his nomination, mr. Wolf is prohibited from testifying under a policy in place under both republican and democrat administrations for decades. Nevertheless, due to the significance of todays hearing the department offered to have mr. Cuccinelli testify, second highest ranking and perfectly qualify are and informed on todays subject matter. I ask unanimous consent to include his testimony for the record. Without objection. Thank you. He should be here today providing the departments perspective on those threats we face and what dhs is doing to counter them. But instead of having productive hearings with mr. Cuccinelli, the chairman chose to subpoena and then empty chair mr. Wolf. This is a political stunt. It is a huge disservice to our committee and to the public. This is the single most important hearing we hold in this committee. But unfortunately as with most things this congress, majority has chose ton play politics. As a result, the public is being deprived of critical information from dhs. Perhaps thats the real reason why this majority didnt want mr. Cuccinelli here. Having the public hear about all the good things dhs is doing to protect them might undermine the radical lefts latest rallying cry. Dismantle the dhs. Unfortunately, director wray and director miller are sorry, fortunately, dr. Er wray and miller are here to provide us with their valuable perspectives. I look forward to hearing from both of you. About the threats we are facing, and with that i yield back. Thank you, very much. The committee does not want to hear testimony from the department. Therefore, after mr. Wolf declined our invitation, we issued a subpoena to obtain his testimony. The socalled Standard Practice by which the Department Says mr. Wolf cannot testify is the administrations own selfimp e selfimposed limitation. I also note this is an administration hoop respect for socalled president s and even laws is highly situational. If the minority wanted to hear testimony from mr. Kuch nellcuc that have every right to invitt him here today. Im not aware of the minoritys requesting his testimony. Other members of the committee are reminded that under Committee Rules Opening Statements may be submitted for the record. Members are also reminded that the subcommittees will operate according to the guidelines laid out by myself and Ranking Members in our july 8 colloquy. I welcome other panel of witnesses. First witness director of the federal bureau of investigation, christopher wray. Director wray began his Law Enforcement career in 1997 serving in numerous positions at the Justice Department before assuming his current role in 2017. Next we have the director of the National Counterterrorism center, christopher miller. Director miller serves in the United States mill frear 1983 to 2014, and in numerous civilian National Security roles before assuming his current position. Without objection, the witness full statement will be inserted in the record and i now ask each witness to summarize his statement and in five minutes or the best you can do within that time. Beginning with director wray. Good morning, chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers and members of the committee. Im honored to be here today on behalf of the men and women of the fbi to discuss our nations top threats from the fbis perspective and what were doing to counter those threats. I know we all share a lot of the same concerns about topics ranging from international and domestic terrorism to cybersecurity, to the violence in our streets and particularly this year to the threat of foreign influence in our elections, and thats just to name a few and i look forward to updating you on these and other important topics this morning. But id like to begin by covering quickly a few items particularly top of mind for us at the fbi over the past few week. First, terrorism remains the fbis top priority, although the nature of that threat has evolved significantly since 9 11. We are ever vigilant in our efforts to prevent attacks by International Terrorist groups like al qaeda and isis. Those groups pose a threat not just to americans overseas but also here at home. Most knowably by those we call homegrown violent extremists often lone actors inspired by Foreign Terrorists selfradicalized and line and motivated to attack soft targets with readily available weapons. Were also working around the clock to prevent attacks by domestic terrorists inspired by one or more extremist ideologists to commit violent acts. In recent years laser focused on throats by racially or ethnically, often too radical e radicalized online and mobilized quickly to carry out plans. Our denver task force arrested on hate crime charges just last year while planning to blow up a synagogue in pueblo, colorado. As with any terrorism case were focuses on disruption, on making arrests before a criminal can act. Just this year alone through the hard work and dedication of countless men and women both at the fbi and across our Partner Agencies weve successfully thwarted potential terrorist attacks in kansas city, tampa, cleveland, oklahoma city, boston, phoenix, and other locations. Now, in recent months weve witnessed protests in various places around the country and many members of congress have raised questions about those protests. Although the majority of protesters have been peaceful, we have opened investigations on individuals involved in criminal activity at these protests, some of whom adhere to violent extremist agendas designs to sow discord and upheaving. To be clear, we do not investigate groups or individuals based on ideology or the exercise of First Amendment protected activity alone, but when the ideology leads someone to commit criminal acts and pursue violence, the fbi will not hesitate. Weve been working closely with federal, state and local partners to ensure the safety of all of our citizens including, i should say, safety of those trying to exercise their First Amendment rights peacefully. We in Law Enforcement must keep our communities safe and secure while safeguarding our citizens Constitutional Rights and civil liberties. As ive said before, one of those need not and must not come at the expense of the other. We also remain focused on other threats. In less than two moss, of course, americans will exercise one 6 their most cherished rights to vote in a free and fair election. Americans must have confidence in our Voting System and our election infrastructure. Thats why the security of our elections is and will continue to be one of our highest priorities. We will not tolerate foreign interference in our elections and are working closely with our federal, state and local partners as well as the private sector to share information, bolster security and identify and disrupt any threats. Just recently, for example, we shared threat indicators with both facebook and twitter that allowed them to take down fake accounts created as part of a Russian Disinformation Campaign before those accounts could develop a broader following. Turning to the cyber arena, were focused on an increasing threat cyber intrusions, by nation states like china, russia, iran and north korea, to sophisticated cyber criminals seeking to exploit technical vulnerabilities primarily for personal profit. Just yesterday i announced the fbis new Cyber Strategy leveraging unique expertise and authorities imposing risk and consequences on our cyber adversarieses, focusing on results and meaning were working to enable our partners operations as well as our own. One example. The fbi and nsa recently joined to expose highly sophisticated Russian Military intelligence malware providing private sector and other government partners the indicators they need to disrupt that tool. We also face increasing blending threats of state sponsors economic espionage facilitated by cyber intrusions. In july based on fbi work were indicting two chinese hackers working with ministry of state security for carries owl a global computer campaign targeting hundreds of victims including, i should note, Companies Developing covid19 vaccines, Testing Technology and treatment. With that kind of behavior, china continues to undercut their own claims of being a trusted and effective partner in the international community. Just yesterday we unsealed charges against five chinese hacker whose were targeting victims around the world from their safe haven in china. With our partners, weve arrested two of their coconspirators in malaysia and seized or took down hundreds of the hackers accounts, servers and domains. Ive touched on a handful only of important thets we face and quickly at that and of course, there are many significant others. As the threats evolve in scale, impact, complexity and agility, were relying on our dep well of expertise, intelligence and partnerships. Im committed to ensuring that the bureau does great work while adhering to our core tenens of fidelity, bravery and integrity. In these challenging times, i tell my folks that weve got to keep calm and tackle hard. Remaining faithful to our core values and best traditions while making sure that were always doing the right thing in the right way. Thank you, and happy to take your questions. Thank you very much for your testimony. I now recognize director miller to summarize his statement for five minutes. Thank you, sir. Chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to pa appear before you today discussing the global terrorism environment and highlight the tireless work of the professionals of your national National Counterterrorism center. Im truly honorened a humbled to lead such an Extraordinary Group of patriots. Its my statement for the record reflects todays terrorism threat to the United States and our allies is less acute than more idealy geographically fif foousd diffused emanating from more plasss than 2001. Iran and shia allies increasingly threatened u. S. Interests overseas, and lone actors inspired by a range of ideologists posed a primary terrorism let on u. S. Soil. Our focus remeans defeating al qaeda. Its affiliates and other terrorist actors, while defending our shores from terrorist entry. We believe this threat picture will only grow more complex over the coming year as technological advanceses, changing geopolitical dynamics and instability resulting from Global Pandemic create more opportunities for terrorists to den fit. However, the u. S. And our ct partners worldwide can exploit some of these same dynamics to our advantages. The complex landscape requires thoughtful responses that evolve along with our adversaries, and we apply the Lessons Learned over the last 19 years to adapt for the future. At the National Counterterrorism center we are innovating new ways of doing business to ensure we are best aligned to connect the dots amid a flood of everchanging information. Through technological innovation and organizational realignments we are positioning ourselves to mitigate the threat of today and preempt the threat of tomorrow. To do this it will require greater resources to enrich our terrorist identities analysis and enhance our ability to detect and prevent terrorist travel to the United States. We also will need to invest in new data science and Information Technology solutions to optimize how we harness Information Available through our inner Agency Partners to combat the threat. In addition to adaptability, evolving terrorist threat requires ditch lens. Ditch lince. The u. S. Physical footprint in key jihadist characters shrinks bep believe the changing National Security framework and priorities only reinforces nctcs mandate to serve as the governments lead agency for counterterrorism threat information and analysis. As our interAgency Partners work diligently to allocate resources we remain focused, laser focused, on leading the government enterprise positive guarantee we maintain relentless pressure on terrorists and preclude them from projecting combat power. That is the central Lesson Learned from our 19 Years Experience on this global war on terror. Nearly two decades after 9 11, its now more important than ever the ntct remains vigilant building on its ledgesy of vigilance and adaptation to prepare for the future. I am confident that our integrated and agile model has revolutionized how the u. S. Addresses transNational Threats. Our approach a nofail mission and one that remains worthy of emulation across the federal government. And perhaps most importantly, it allowed us to uphold our sacred commitment to protect and serve the American People. In closing, thank you, again, for the opportunity to appear before you today. And i look forward to your questions. I thank the witnesses for their testimony. Ill remind each member that he or she will have five minutes to question the panel. Ill now recognize myself for questioning. Director wray, can you, for the sake of the committee, identify what organization proposed the greatest threat from the a domestic standpoint here to the homeland . Is it rightwing extreme itchti left wing and what does your report reflect . Mr. Chairman, the, we assess that the greatest threat to the homeland, to us here domestically, is not one organization. Certainly not one ideology, but, rather, lone actors, largely selfradicalized online, who pursue soft targets using readily accessible weapons. Those include both domestic violent extremists of a variety of sorts, as well as homegrown violent extremists motivated by foreign jihadisttype sources. And those two groups, as those two categories as whole provide the greatest challenge and threat to us here at home. Partly because, and youve often heard the expression, in the past the importance of connecting the dots. Copy you compare the threat i just described to the sort of al qaeda sleeper cells of old, that group is, the sleeper cells. Youve got a group of people colluding, conspiring, fundraising, planning, preparing, communicating. Theres a lot of dots to connect. Its the Intelligent Community and Law Enforcement know where to connect and usually occurs over a long period of time. These people, both categories, domestic extremeists and homegrown extremists dont have a lot of people work wig, dont take a lot of planning and preparation. Can go from mobilization in weeks if not days. The challenge of connecting the dots working with nctc is greater that much less few e dots and much less time to do it. From flash to bang the time is that much more daunting. Thats why thats the biggest challenge to us here in the homeland. So when we hear officials sa antifa is the biggest threat on the left, are they being correct . Well, we dont really think of threats in terms of left and right at the fbi. Were focused on the violence, not the idealogy. Our domestic violent extremists include everything from racially motivated violent extremists which weve talked about here in this committee before, i think when i testified last year for example, all the way to antigovernment, antiauthority violent extremists. And that includes people ranging from anarchist violent extremists, people who subscribe to antifa or other ideologies as well as militia types and those kind of right. I think what im im trying to reflect on is we hear from time to time that this organization by name, we need to investiga investigate, the secretary designee, if he was here he would get the question, but hes not. He asked for an investigation of antifa because they were the greatest threat to the homeland. If im hearing you correctly, youre saying that its really not organizations so much as it is idealogy. And i dont want to put words in your mouth. But i think thats what i heard. I appreciate that. We look at antifa as more of an idealogy or a movement that an organization to be clear, we do have quite a number of properly predicated domestic terrorism investigations into violent anarchist extremists. Any number of whom selfidentify with the Antifa Movement. Thats part of this Broader Group of domestic violent extremists that im talking about. But its just one part of it. We also have the racially motivated violent extremists, the militia types, and others. Thank you. Can you tell me if as of this date you have information that russia is trying to influence the election for 2020 . Yes, i think the Intelligence Communitys consensus is that russia continues to try to influence our elections, primarily through what we would call maligned foreign influence as opposed to what we saw in 2016 where there was also an effort to target election infrastructure, cyber targeting. We have not seen the second part yet this year or this cycle. But we certainly have seen very active, very active efforts by the russians to influence our election in 2020 through what i would call more than maligned foreign influence side of things. Social media, use of proxies, state media, online journals, et cetera. An effort to both sow divisiveness and discord and and i not the Intelligence Community has assessed this publicly to primarily to denigrate Vice President biden and what the russians see as kind of an antirussian establishment. Thats essentially what were seeing in 2020. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the Ranking Member for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Director, the fbi sorry, the department of justice has recently announced many fbi investigations that led to the arrest of chinese nationals conducting highly Sensitive Research in the United States that have been found to be connected to the chinese military. The growing number of these types of cases and nonpublic details of those arrests raise alarm bells for me. Im introducing legislation this week to address chinas efforts to circumvent our existing vetting procedures and take advantage of our open and worldrenowned Education Research institutions, particularly those that are taxpayer funded through government grants. What is the significance and the prevalence of this threat . Im sorry, i couldnt hear the very end of your question. The chinese nationals who are using our educational facilities for their research and stealing our intellectual property, whats the the threat, significance of it in your view . So the chinese view themselves as in a an International Talent war, and they recognize that the American Innovation and research is the envy of the world and, tranqly, the envy of china. And when they cant innovate and research themselves, they send people over here, in some cases legitimately, but in many cases not, who engage in intellectual property theft. Taking information, American Research and bringing it back to china to advance chinas National Security goals which has the perverse effect since a lot of this research is taxpayer funded, as essentially the reverse effect of having american taxpayers funding chinas advancement at our expense. What can congress do to help you combat that threat . Well, certainly we appreciate the congress allocation of resources to our counterintelligence efforts. Thats an important part of it. I think i publicly acknowledged that the fbi now has over 2,000 counterintelligence investigations related to china, by far the biggest chunk of our counterintelligence portfolio, and we are opening a new chinese Counter Intelligence investigation about every ten hours. And so the scope and scale of this threat is really breathtaking, and we need as many resources as we can to help everybody tackle it. But its not just a government problem, we need to work with the private sector. You mentioned the academic sector. I will tell you im encouraged by the response weve gotten from both the private sector and, frankly, the academic sector lately. I think people in this country are starting to wake up to the threat and voluntarily undertaking appropriate measures. So the congress can be very helpful in kind of raising awareness both when youre all at home in your districts, but also through your work here in washington in highlighting the importance of a threat and communicating in effect back to the chinese that this is a an issue that its bipartisan, that all Americans Care about, and that were not going to tolerate anymore. You do believe that the academic sector is sensitive to this . Well, yes. It varies, i will tell you, significantly from university to university about how sensitive and how cooperative with us theyve been. But i think this is, frankly, one of the bright spots over the last couple of years. Weve had quite a few universities, ive been to all 56 fbi field offices, and i will tell you, im struck by the number of offices where universities that three or four years ago wouldnt have wanted an fbi agent anywhere near campus to some that now have office space set aside for our people. And i think thats thats not just because theyre idealistic and believe in the country i hope, but rather its recognition that the information thats being stolen is their information. So its about protecting their research, their professors, their hard work, frankly. And i think the more of that we can have, the better off well be because the fbi cant certainly cant tackle this alone. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from texas, ms. Jackson lee. Thank you very much, mr. Chair, to both of the witnesses, we thank you for your presence and your service to this nation. Director wray, the fbi on may 30th, 2019, issued the intelligence bulletin on antigovernment identity based and fringed political conspiracy theories, very likely motivate some domestic extremists to commit criminals sometimes violent activity. You focused or made the point today in your testimony that you act more toward the idealogy or you dont investigate idealogy, you are determined to assess the threat to the United States. So im interested, qanon activity has resulted in the arrest of persons planning to carry out violent acts based on the nonsense spouted in web forms and social media that form the core of qanon beliefs. How do you characterize the organization . How do i characterize qanon . Qanon activity has resulted in the arrests of persons planning to carry out violent acts. How do you assess that organization as it relates to violent acts . We view qanon as essentially less of an organization and more of a sort of a complex set of conspiracy theories. And certainly we have had cases where that properly predicate cases involving violence where people have been motivated by some of those conspiracy theories. But as you said, we dont investigate the ideology or the Conspiracy Theory itself. I dont think weve seen lethal attacks involving that kind of motivation, but we have certainly your investigations would be driven based upon any violent acts . Correct. Violent no matter what idealogy or belief it is of domestic violent extremism, we look at three things. One, violence or threat of violence. Two, a federal crime obviously. And then third, the motivation that fuels it. If we have to have those three things to open an investigation. Black lives matter was organized shortly after the tragic, senseless death of trayvon martin. Young people took to the streets asking for justice. They have obviously continued their fight for justice and particularly in the wake of Police Shootings of africanamerican men and most recently, of course, george floyd, my constituent, and elijah blake in states in this country. Do you see just on the name of black lives matter and the basis of their organizing, them as an Extremist Group intending to turn america into a socialist nation or to destroy america . We dont we dont express a view on the sort of Political Organization itself, black lives matter. If there were people who who follow that group or who adhere to that idealogy who were then to based on that idealogy or anything else to commit violent criminal activity, then we would approach them just like we would anyone else. Youre no longer pointing to black identity groups. Well, i think what youre referring to and we had good conversations in the past about this in 2017 there was briefly a product or a category that the fbi came up with that predates me mr. Black extremism. Yes or no. My time is short. Im familiar with the work. The point im trying to make is that just the existence of black lives matter and their advocacy for justice is not determined them to be disruptive socialist groups trying to destroy the nation. You have not characterized them in that way. We dont characterize them one way or the other, no. Have you seen any excessive violence that can be attributable to black lives matter as opposed to any other groups that may be involved in violenc violence . I i cant think of one sitting here right now. Certainly we have had racially motivated violent extremist cases involving involving africanamerican defendants who have pursued violence against, say, Law Enforcement and whether any of those cases involve some reference to black lives matter, sitting here now i cant recall one. We certainly have it cases of the first category. As youve had cases with white individuals, as well. Violence against officers absolutely, absolutely. In particular, the one in oakland, california, individuals, known culprits in the shootings of proud boys. Those individuals were not involved in protests to your knowledge as Vice President pence indicated that they were involved in protests. These were white individuals who, unfortunately, tragically shot officers day, patrick, underwood, and another one. Are you familiar with that . , why im familiar with the case. The gentleladys time has expired. Can he were those protesters well, on the carillo case, i dont think we my recollection is there was no evidence that he was participating in the protests himself. I think there was information that he capitalized on the protest as a as a setting or a medium for which he could commit the tragic attack on the officers that you referred to. Thank you. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentleman from louisiana, mr. Higgins, for five minutes. Thank you, chairman, and the panelists. For the record, mr. Chairman, id like to thank the department of Homeland Security and and secretary wolf for actively and personally participating in the recovery, supervision of my district after erica and laura, wolfe was on the ground fast. Hes been personally at my avail. I regret that we were not able to work out his appearance here today, but i do appreciate his service and the direction hes given and the personal assistance hes given to my office in the wake of hurricane laura and the devastation weve suffered there. Director wray, thank you for being here today, good sir. Id like to talk to you about Election Security. The National Counterintelligence security center, ncsc, released a Statement Last month outlining china, russia, and irans effort to interfere with the upcoming president ial election. You also mention in your written testimony that foreign adversaries are attempting to sway u. S. Voters perspectivives, to shift u. S. Policies and to increase discord in the United States. And ultimately to undermine American Peoples confidence in our election process. Can you share with us regarding social media platforms which is primarily the means by which this interference effort is being pushed, how is the fbi working with the social media platforms to ensure our Election Security and to minimize fake profiles and foreign influence in our in the attitudes and perspectives of the American People . Well, congressman, thank you for the question. You are correct that we are working increasingly closely and have been building over the last few years in our working with the social media sector in particular, but also other kind of Technology Companies to thwart the maligned foreign influence threat. I guess the best way to describe the way that works, and had is really one of the greatest improvements that has occurred in our collective defense against election interference over the last few years, we will take leads that we have, information that we have, work very closely with some of the key social Media Companies, we feed them information, and they are able to take action on their platforms using their terms of service or terms of use to shut down and kick off fake accounts, trolls, bots, et cetera. And in turn, a lot of times what will happen and this is happening more and more which is great theyre sending back to us new accounts theyve identified that then allow us to have more leads to pursue more investigative activity. And so i mentioned one example in my Opening Statement that recently occurred where we were able to pass information to facebook and twitter. They were able to shut down russian influence accounts really right before they could ever build a following. And the faster we can do that and the more agile way we can do that, the better. And the reason for that i think is important for people to understand. Misinformation or disinformation or fake information is only effective if it seems credible. Its only credible if its built up some reservoir credibility which means that these russian efforts require a certain amount of time to build up kind of a reservoir of credibility so when theyre really active people care what they have to say. If were able to shut down down and knock them back quickly before they can really build up that credibility, then its not going to stop it, but it means its much, much less effective. We need more of that, were having more of that. Yes, sir. Thank you for that assessment. Those were encouraging words. Can we can we conclude based upon your perspective, director wray, that the fbi does have an ongoing and functional relationship with the social media platforms to to deter and, you know, to dismantle ultimately individual efforts by foreign nation states to sway the perspectives of the American People and to ultimately influence our elections. Are you comfortable with the kind of with the kind of relationship and communications youre having with the social media giants . Well, i guess the best way i could answer that is to say i tend to be ambitious for the organization for the country, and so i think theres always room for improvement, and im always impatient for more progress and more improvement. But certainly the strides that we have made at the fbi working with some of those companies over the last few years has really been very encouraging. And i think were making great progress. Id like to say more progress including from them. But were moving in the right direction for sure. The gentlemans time thank you, my time has expired. I yield. The chair recognizes the gentleman from rhode island for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i want to begin by thanking director wray and director miller for your presence here today and for your testimony. Hearing from our nations top Law Enforcement and Homeland Security officials on the enforcement of Homeland Security, the threats facing our country, is of paramount importance to the American People. And id also like to note my profound disappointment that mr. Wolfe has declined to join you, and i associate myself with the chairmans remarks earlier on that topic. Director wray, let me begin with you, and let me start on topic, on the Solarium Commission which i served as a commissioner as did you. I want to thank you for your participation on the commission, as well as that of Deputy Director on the commission. Im glad of the collaborative work that we did in developing recommendations, many of which im optimistic will become law by the end of the year. What are your observations on the final report, and which recommendations do you consider most pressing . Well, first let me say i appreciated the opportunity to to serve on the commission. And i commend my fellow commissioners, especially you and senator king and others, for really pushing this topic before hopefully we have some some truly apocalyptic cyber crisis in this country. And for not shying away from some very hard issues. I think there are several recommendations in the report that we really would think would benefit our cyber investigative and intelligence missions, and i think the commission was on the right track on that, including in particular really highlighting and encouraging the government to double down on our National Cyber investigative, joint Investigative Task force, the ncijtf, that sort of brings the whole approach to attribution which is so key. You also i think the Commission Also highlighted a number of statutory gaps and inconsistencies. Theres references to the need to update, for example, the pen registered and trap and trace statute, theres references to Administrative Subpoena Authority for computer intrusion cases. Those are a few things that jump out at me. Certainly the highlight thats good. Im going to my time is short, so let me jump to another topic. I always want to highlight the joint collaborative environment to allow hosts across the private sector to Work Together to work on cyber threat intelligent products. Thats another important one. Let me turn to elections because this is a very important topic. We only have about seven weeks to go until the election, and early voting begins monday. And misinformation and disinformation for foreign and domestic actors are widespread. And weve discussed this morning. Director wray, who is responsible for collects security across the interagency, and to put it bluntly, who is in charge . And i want to know who is responsible for coordinating efforts to combat electionrelated misinformation and disinformation . Take them in order there. So. The fbi takes the lead on maligned foreign influence domestically, and we work closely through our Foreign Influence Task force. We have people from nsa, for example, on our task force. We work very closely, as i mentioned a few minutes ago, with the social Media Companies, and thats really almost daily engagement. And we engage through the Foreign Influence Task force really every day, especially in the current runup to the election in the interagency on the maligned foreign influence piece who would you say is in charge at the interagency . Im sorry . Who would you say is responsible for coordinating across the interagency . Whos in charge . Well, we all Work Together as we do against the terrorist threat. Its an interaccegency threat. Dhs takes the lead on the election infrastructure hardening. Od i takes the lead in terms of coordinating the intelligence analysis that comes out of it. And whos responsible for combating the electionrelated misinformation, disinformation . I think the fbi takes the lead in combating that . Well, i appreciated your answer and perspective. I know my time has run out. This underscores the need for a National Cyber director so that across response we have someone that is identified as the person in charge of working together is important. I highly support a collaborative environment, but also having someone in charge is essential. I know my times expired, mr. Chairman, i yield back at this point. I will have other questions in the record. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from arizona, ms. Lesko. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you for all you employees for the hard work you do protecting our nation. Director wray, when do you plan to declassify the 302s produced regarding the ukraine interference in the 2016 election . I dont have an update for you on the timing of any specific declassification document. Im happy to see if theres information we can provide back to your office as a followup. Thank you. And director wray, as you know, ig horowitz identified numerous major errors in the fisa Court Application process under the obama administrations i would classify it as spying on the trump campaign. And so what status are we at in cleaning that whole process up . So appreciate the question. Let me say first that i think that report describes conduct that i consider unacceptable and unrepresentative of who i know the fbi to be as an organization, and it cannot be allowed to happen again. Ive installed an entirely new leadership team. Ive put in place on the same day the report came out implemented over 40 corrective actions that accepted every recommendation in the igs report and went above and beyond. The seniormost people involved in the investigation are all gone. Either terminated during my tenure or resigned or retired. And were moving forward with changes to processes, training, oversight within the organization. Were creating a new office of internal audit. You may have seen an announcement from the attorney general on that. Weve got his approval to do that which will sort of provide the, sort of the backend check, the old sort of trust but verify. Well get the verify part coming through that. So im very encouraged by the progress were making, but you know, its going to take hard work. Well, thank you, and im glad that you appreciate it because obviously to the average american person, including me, if the fbi can spy on an incoming president of the United States, every person in america is concerned that they will spy on them. And so im glad its being cleaned up. I do have a question about boogal boogaloo. Recently its my understanding that two americans selfidentifying as members of the Boogaloo Boys were arrested for attempting to partner with hamas due to their similar goals and missions. Have there been any arrests how have these arrests modified the dhs and fbi approach to investigating and handling rioters and domestic terrorists . I appreciate your flagging that particular case. I think its a very revealing, interesting case, it was a minneapolis case. Those are two individuals who i think associated themselves with the boogaloos which much like antifa is more of a movement or idealogy than it is a group itself. I think one of the things a lot of people dont understand about people who subscribe to this sort of boogaloo thinking is that their main focus is just dismantling, terroring down government. And theyre less clear on what it is we think theyre going to replace government with. Im not sure they would all agree with each other. Thats why this case in minneapolis that you highlight sudden so revealing because these two individuals decided that they were on board with providing Material Support to hamas which is not something that most people would previously have associated with the boogaloos. Its interesting. I have one last question, only 49 seconds left. There have been statements by top people here, in fact, chairman nadler had said on the floor of the u. S. House of representatives that basically antifa is a fantasy made up by the radical right or fox news or something to that effect. Would you agree with that . Is antifa a total fantasy, or is it real . So antifa is a real thing. Its not a group or organization, its a movement or idealogy, may be one way of thinking about it. And we have quite a number and ive said this consistently since my first time appearing before this committee we have any number of properly predicated investigations into what we would describe as violent anarchists extremists, and some of those individuals selfidentify with antifa. Thank you, sir. And i yield back. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from louisiana, mr. Richmond, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, let me just express how disappointed i am that dhs is not here, although there are real things that we need to know, especially in louisiana from dhs. We have wildfires, we have hurricanes. We need to know if fema has the funds to help our american citizens whose lives have been turned upside down. For those people in lake charles, louisiana, that are in shelters and surrounding cities like new orleans, we need to know whats playing does dhs have the funds, have the funds been moved over to build a wall . Look, fortunately for new orleans, we will escape this time from major damage. However, because of what congress did for us after hurricanes katrina and rita, we continue to pay it forward. Even though my colleagues from louisiana may not want to criticize dhs or the president , i will do it. We have people who are very vulnerable now, and we need to know whats the federal governments plan, the amount of money they have, and for dhs not to be here is sad. Let me start director wray, really quick, you talked about movements and ideologies. But black lives matter is more of a principle and an organization. And what im trying to what id like to go into very quickly is that do you all identify it as an Extremist Organization . Im sorry, can you repeat the question . Im having a hard time with the audio. Black lives matter is a principle, and its also an organization. Do you all identify black lives matter as an Extremist Organization . We have not identified black lives matter do you okay okay in any way. Do you identify the organization as a violent organization or a threat to peac peace . As i said, we have not identified the organization in any way. We dont unlike on the International Terrorism side, the foreign terrorist side, there is no mechanism under u. S. Law for us to and we dont identify domestic organizations as anything really. Director wray, i know that you hear all the time this whole mantra of law and order. What im trying to do is get you to give some clarification because things may get silly, dangerous, or foolish. And so my example would be posting on social media a comment that if on black people come to my city, i will drop ten of them. That is dangerous rhetoric, especially when we see people exercising their right to carry arms that are white and that are black, and for people to assume that the ones that are black are a threat, that they can publicly say i will drop ten of you is concerning, and i know that you as one of our top law and order officials should have some concern about that rising level of rhetoric and agitation. Well, we are i think very concerned about violence of any kind including violence that deprives citizens of their Constitutional Rights and civil liberties. And certainly one of the concerns that we have amidst all the current unrest is a growing trend of protests begets counterprotests begets violence against one side or the other. Theres this increasing phenomenon of individuals attacking each other in addition to attacking Law Enforcement. Thats not good for anybody. Thank you, director wray. Really quickly, a lot of my mayors have called me from around the country saying, wait, the violence in the streets, the chaos and the destruction of property, people are assigning to black lives matter, and from our experience what were seeing is that is, in fact, not black lives matter. Would you agree with that statement . I dont think i would characterize it the way youre hearing certainly. I guess what i would say is from one city to another, one night to another, whos committing violence and destruction of property varies widely. Certainly from city to city, sometimes from night to night. I think in general what were seeing across the country are are sort of three groups, right. One is three categories, maybe a better way of putting it. One is peaceful protesters, lawful peaceful protesters, a second is what i would call criminal opportunists, people engaged in kind of state, local, you know, lowlevel vandalism and looting and things like that. Thats criminal activity. It needs to be addressed largely a state and local matter. Theres a third category which is the most dangerous. Those are the people engaged in arsons of police vehicles, throwing a molotov throwing of molotov cocktails, those kind of things. Thats the group that we fbi are most focused on, most concerned about, and those groups are motivated by a wide variety of ideologies and agendas. Thank you, i see my time is up. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania for five minutes, mr. Joyce. Thank you, mr. New hampshire son. Thank you, director miller and director wray, for this important update on worldwide threats to our homeland. Director wray, are you seeing a coordinated effort from radical leftwing organizations who are currently perhaps targeting Law Enforcement officers . Well, as i said a few minutes ago, the violence varies widely. Much of the violence that were seeing, it does not appear to be organized or attributed to any one particular group or even movement. That doesnt make it any less serious or criminal or unacceptable. Now we are seeing in certain pockets more kind of regionally organized folks coalescing, often coordinating on the ground in the middle of protests, you know, in terms of tactics and things like that. And that is some of the most dangerous activity because thats often what leads to the destruction of small business, destruction of government buildings, and particularly concerning to me, you know, assaults on Law Enforcement and federal Law Enforcement officials in particular, but not exclusively. Weve got case after case of people burning setting fire, pouring gasoline and setting fire to marked police vehicles. And this this is not innocuous activity. It takes a very, very, very special person to be willing to put his or her life on the line for complete strangers every day which is what Law Enforcement in this country does. And even before all this latest activity, the rate of line of duty deaths was alarming. Then you add on top of that covid, and covid deaths for Law Enforcement continue because, of course, Law Enforcement doesnt have the ability to sit it out, and now weve seen a significant uptick in violence against Law Enforcement in this country this year. Its up markedly from last year. The reason i know that beside just looking at the statistics is that i made it a practice after becoming fbi director to every time theres an officer shot and killed in this country, to personally call the chief or sheriff responsible for that officer and express my condolences and support on behalf of the fbi. And i will tell you we had a stretch just recently, late august, Early September i think it was, maybe more recently than that, where over a 15day stretch i made seven of those phone calls. Thats an officer feloniously killed every other day. These are people average ages in their late 30s, they had their whole lives ahead of them. They had families. And it breaks my heart. I applaud you for connecting with local Law Enforcement when these tragedies occur. You and i realize that these men and women bravely every day put on the uniform to protect us. Continuing along this line, has there been any assistance from social Media Companies to help weed out potential threats when these organizations are using their platforms . Well, somewhat like what i was describing in response it a question earlier on the election influence context or threat. We do have relationships with social Media Companies in which, again, in a similar way, they will sometimes detect activity on their platforms, and working jointly with us they will sometimes use their terms of use or terms of service to shut down or kick off those accounts and flag information for Law Enforcement. So any assistance i would say, yes, some assistance, it varies, you know, a bit from company to company. Some of them devote more resources to that kind of operation which supports Law Enforcement than others. But we do certainly have a number of engagements with partnerships almost with some of those companies. And finally, do you see any foreign governments attempting to communicate with these organizations or assist any Political Party within them . Im sorry, which which organizations are we talking about now . With these leftwing organizations which i think are behind so much of the attacks on Law Enforcement. Well, i guess i would answer that in two parts. One, we have seen some efforts by our foreign adversaries. I would mention china and russia specifically but not exclusively, to sort of piggyback on a lot of the unrest activity thats been occurring as part of the effort either to sow divisiveness and discord as far as the russians or try to advance their own narratives say in the case of chinese. So theres that level of engagement. The second piece is maybe not the organizations youre talking about, but we have seen some engagement between racially motivated violent extremists and likeminded individuals overseas on that front. Thank you for yourin sigh in and for your update. The chair recognizes the gentleman from new jersey, mr. Payne, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its an honor and privilege to be here today with the committee. And let me first say to mr. Wray and mr. Miller that i appreciate you understanding your obligation to show up when the Committ Committee requests your appearance as opposed to the empty chair that is there. And let me ask mr. Wray, is there a so with antifa, youre saying its more of an idealogy than an organized group, you know, which a lot of people, you know, on the other side feel is some organized group. Is it an organized group, or is it more just a notion, a thought, a philosophy with respect to this . Because you know, when i hear this antifa is there, antifas doing this, im still trying to figure out who and what antifa is. Could you enlighten me . Well, first let me say as i think i said in response to an earlier question, antifa is a real thing. Its not a fiction. But it is its not an organization or a structure. We view it more as we understand it to be more of a kind of a movement or maybe you could call it an idealogy. And we certainly have, as ive said, a number of and we have had for some time and have opened quite a number this year of properly predicated investigation into violent anarchist extremists who subscribe to, selfidentify with antifa. They say, you know, i am january fifa, things like that antifa, things like that. And we have seen individuals, i think i mentioned this in response to one of the earlier questions, identified with the Antifa Movement coalescing regionally into what you might describe as small groups or nodes. And we are actively investigating the potential of violence from those regional nodes, if you will. Thank you, congressman. Might need to unmute yourself. Were advised that were having some issues with webex right now. Were trying to correct them. Well stand by. Okay. The gentleman from new jersey may continue. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Is there mr. Wray, did you finish your response . I finished my response, but im not sure whether you still on line while i finished. Id be happy to pick up where if you could tell me where you lost contact. Well, i think i think i got the gist of your response. So ill move on. Mr. Miller, the past four years have seen the United States significantly scale back its presence and commitments around the world. Our nato allies no longer trust us to keep our commitments leaving the door open for other forces to step into this vacuum. And as weve seen time as weve seen time and again, instability leads to violence. Does the National Counterterrorism say theyre planning for the effects of a global vacuum, a Global Leadership vacuum . Thank you, sir, for that question. Ive been so impressed. Ive been doing this for a few years, and the most amazing thing is the partnerships we have internationally on the counterterrorism front, and i have seen no degradation in our commitment, in our partnerships in that regards. As a matter of fact, oftentimes its almost one of those during the cold war. We maintain a significant journtterrorism presence overseas and have the ability to generate combat power and deploy that forward if theres an enemy, a terrorist group that is in a position to threaten us. Do you believe that the United States is acting as a Global Leader should . As you noted, were in a great transformation geopolitically and geostrategically from the counterterrorism aspect. I talk with all my partners regularly, with our five is, and i feel confident that we maintain a close relationship and partnership and leadership role. The gentleman from new jerseys time has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from north carolina, mr. Bishop. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I have a doggy in the background sounds like. First, id note that the petty game who from the department of Homeland Security testifies today must be amazing to americans outside the beltway. This is the annual hearing on worldwide threats to the homemade. And i cant for one imagine setting aside that priority in order to engage in a snit with the department about whether mr. Wolfe or mr. Cuccinelli appears. So we have neither. And in light of that, ill direct questions, director wray, to you. All summer and early fall, of course, weve seen numerous and ongoing riots, looting, property destruction, even serious injuries and killings in cities across the United States. Minneapolis, l. A. , seattle, charleston, chicago, st. Louis, washington, d. C. , rochester, lancaster, and of course portland come to mind. Weve seen some media characterize these events as fiery, but mostly peaceful. And politicians have dismissed them occasionally as myth. But americans have seen independent reports and shocking videos, and they keep coming. I dont really understand the thinking of lawmakers who seek perversely to justify this criminality by pointing to the existence of other violent extremists with different ideasologiidea idealogy. I would like to think plans especially for ideologies closer to their position on the spectrum. Indeed, as miss lesko mentioned the left and right of these things is hard to pin down. In any event, some of these reports early on have suggested that there were pallets of brick prepositioned in riot areas. Weve seen reports of vehicles on scene to facilitate or supply rioters. Coordination of activity by a social media you made reference to earlier and interstate travel of rioters to values. All of these suggest a Funding Source or multiple Funding Sources. You have made reference, as has the attorney general, to numerous arrests having been made. Are you investigating sources of funding in support of that criminal activity . I appreciate the question. Certainly we have a number of investigations and are pursuing a number of leads that do things like try to identify networks, travelers, supply sources, we look at repeat offenders. As i mentioned i think in response to a question from one of your colleagues, one of the things thats so challenging about this is that an awful lot of the coordination or coordination or organization if you will that occurs is happening kind of on the ground, you know, in the dark, on the street at a tactical level as opposed to kind of in a more structured or coordinated national level. That makes it that much harder to investigate and disrupt. But i think its important for people to understand that although i do agree that the majority of the people out there protesting in general across the country are peaceful protesters, theres no question that the big number, the biggest number is peaceful protesters. That should not diminish which i think is the point youre making, from the fact that even though it might numerically be a Smaller Group, thats very dangerous activity that that Smaller Group is engaged in. And thats why the fbi is focused much as your question was, were focused on the violence. To be not the idealogy, dont care left, right, violence is wrong, were going after the violence, we dont care what motivates. To be sure. Those issues ought to be irrelevant to this committee or to any Law Enforcement agency in the United States. That is to say what idealogy someone has or their First Amendment activity. And to say that much of that happening is frankly something that we should take no cognizance of. As to those engaging in violence and destruction, and there have been many, the question becomes with its proliferation in so many places, is the fbi examining the finances underlying the people who you arrest to see what their venmo accounts say, to see what the sources of cash are that come to them, that theyre buying supplies with and fireworks that they fire at Law Enforcement officers. And are you using civil forfeiture laws to disrupt those sources of funding and the like . Without reference to any specific investigation, i can tell you that there are any number of investigations in which the source of funding, the source of supply are things that are of particular interest and things that were actively questioning and pursuing leads on. As far as the civil forfeiture piece, i will confess that sitting here right now in the hearing, i cant off the top of my head think of a situation where weve yet been able to use that. But we will use every tool in our toolbox if we think it fits. My times expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentlelady from new york for five minutes, ms. Rice. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Miller, late last month, your boss, the director of National Intelligence, radcliffe, said the office of the director of National Intelligence would cease inperson Election Security briefings to congress. Then just yesterday he reversed that decision and said that he will continue to brief the senate and house intel committees on efforts to secure the 2020 elections from foreign interference but will no longer conduct briefings for all lawmakers, citing the need to protect intelligence sources and methods. Its incredibly frustrating that a nonpartisan issue like the security of our elections has been so politicized that members of congress are now considered untrustworthy of this critical information. Its also particularly alarming that this information is being withheld from members of congress only weeks after dhs confirmed publicly that russia was working to boost President Trump again by discrediting Vice President bidens health. Will you commit to us at the odni will continue to keep all members of congress informed on Election Security threats, and if your answer is yes, how do you plan on doing that . Maam, with all respect, i dont do Election Security. I absolutely will provide any information you require, the congress requires on terrorism matters. But that really is a decision thats been being made at the d i level. And my center, we just do counterterrorism, maam. Well, maybe you can take the message back to your boss yes, maam to say that members of congress are not worthy to be trusted with this information when its actually our job to have this information and to have some level of oversight is really disturbing. Yes, maam, id be happy to take that message back. Thank you. Mr. Wray, recently the department of justice and federal partners conducted the largest ever seizure of terrorist organizations, cryptocurrency accounts, seizing in total 300 accounts. Allegedly used by foreign terrorist organizations like al qaeda, isis, and hamas to fund attacks. Out of this committee we passed a bipartisan bill that would require dhs to develop and submit a threat assessment report on the use of Virtual Currencies by terrorist organizations. This version of the bill was included in the ndaa and signed into law in just this past december. This case demonstrates the adaptability of terrorist groups who have traditionally used unlicensed Money Services businesses or other Money Laundering operations to adopt their terror financed activities to the cyber age. In your opinion, will cryptocurrencies continue to be used by these terrorist organizations on a wider basis . What trends are you and your Respective Department seeing in this matters . Well, congresswoman, i agree with you that cryptocurrency is a source of particular concern. Its proliferating not just across terrorist threats but across other kind of criminal threats, as well. And within the terrorism space, both across International Terrorists and domestic, and it makes it one of the key investigative tools that we have, one of the key investigative strategies that we have in that space, much as was in the answer that i just gave to congressman bishop is to follow the money. Thats one of our goto moves. And of course the abilitymoves. The ability to follow the money is critical across every threat. Cryptocurrency makes it that much harder to do that. We have developed a lot of expertise on that. But each team we sort of solve one kind of cryptocurrency, a new kind comes on the market. Part of the reason why this is such a big deal is that it fits with other technological trends which have a similar kind of effect of hiding and obstructing criminal activity from Law Enforcement. So if you think about any investigation we have, youve got the stuff, the documents, the communications, the people, the witnesses, the sours, human sources, and the money. If cryptocurrency hides the money, if default endtoend encryption blocks us from any hraufpbl stuff and if Artificial Intelligence and all the various ways in which Technology Makes it easier to find human sources make it harder for us to protect human sources, then we lose the money, the people and the stuff. Thats when were in a really bad space from a country protecting us from terrorist threats to organized criminal threats and others. Can i ask you to just talk a little bit more . You made reference earlier in response to a question about the collaboration that your agency has with social media platforms in terms of misinformation and disinformation. Can you just talk more about that . Because if people cant trust the information theyre getting, that just goes to the heart of really affecting, you know, what i think all of this on this Committee Want to do, which is everyones right and ability to vote and base their decisions on facts not misinformation and disinformation. So this is one of our key challenges both for the fbi and for the agency and for the country. Misinformation, disinformation is not new. But what is new is the ability through social media to amplify it at scale in a much more meaningful. Thats why the partnership with the tech companies, sell cone valley, are so critical to our efforts. They have resources to take responsibility for things happening on their own platforms much more quickly and within greater legal flexibility in terms of their terms of service than we can do through Law Enforcement means. And so thats why that is thats part of the key effort. We the fbi are not and cant be the truth police. And a lot of people dont understand that that is not how we go about deterring misinformation and efforts. We follow the thraefplt if its the russians, we follow the russian actors. We talk to social Media Companies. We dont have people sitting on social media trying to find things that look false and then wonder whog did it. We tkpwho the ogo the other way. We look at the actor and see what they are had he trying to spread. Social companies can go whatever way they want. They have resources that i envy. They can and should and are increasingly bringing to the fight. Its particularly of concern to us in the election context when americans make the mistake of getting information about elections themselves from social. Its one thing to push out misinformation about a candidate or a policy or something else. But when information gets pushed out about where you go to vote, whether your polling place is open, whether its closed, that kind of thing. We are trying to make sure americans know to get information about where and when and how you vote, you need to go to your local Election Officials website. Dont take it from social media. Thank you both for being here today. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Crenshaw, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for moving us into a much cooler room. Much cooler. Yeah. All right. Thank you, director wray, for being here. I would like to ask you about a number of things, china, iran, russia. The thing is i think politically theres not that much daylight between us on these issues. We largely agree on these threats. What there seems to be disagreement over is the source of domestic threats were facing, the vast a lot of looting and rioting. I dont know why we disagree but we do. Theres been more than 550 declares riots by antifa and the blm organization. It doesnt come close to measuring the actual and true damage done to peoples lives. Thats just insurance. Small business without insurance whatsoever. Some will not open up even if they did get insurance payments. Ive heard many members question whether antifa even exists. Director wray, you said antifa does exist but you considered it more of an ideology than a group, correct . Yes. An ideology or maybe a movement. Okay. That seems to me to be downplaying it. It organized locally. It wears a standardized uniform. Collects funds to buy highpowered lasers to blind federal officers, feed their rioters since they clearly arent working and bail out those who have been arrested. This is an ideology mixed shield wall to attack federal officers. It formed an autonomous zone in an American City and besieged a federal courthouse in another. Do you have a way to define what you mean by its not a group . So, i want to be clear that by describing it as an ideology or movement i by no means mean to minimize the seriousness of the violence and criminality that is going on across the country, some of which is attributable to that people inspired by or who selfidentify with that ideology and movement. We are focused on that zones, krpblt. Some of it is extremely serious. And you mentioned before three categories. Criminality, peaceful protests. And ideological rioting. You didnt use those words but i will. It matches the third category, people who purposefully want to instigate it, antifa being one of them. I want to read you section 2331. It has three components. A, acts dangerous to human life a violation of the criminal law of the United States or of any state. B, appear to be intended first to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence by intimidation or affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, and c occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States. Does that at all match the activities of antifa . It matches some of the individuals were investigating and other charges. You put your finger on a little bit of a legal predicament, which is there is not currently in title xviii an offense or crime. It seems pretty specific. There is a definition. Ironically, unlike on the International Foreign terrorist side, there is not a crime of domestic terrorism that you can charge. So typically we, in domestic terrorism cases, including of the sort youre describing, we are pursuing explosive charges, firearms charges, rioting charges, you mentioned. Are you prevented from following the money, the websites. They are clearly organizing. It seems strange we cant call it a group. We are not precluded from following the money. Thats good. We have a number of investigation there is not a Material Support to offense. When you do Material Support to al qaeda or isis. There is not Material Support to domestic. Willfully fail to keep the public from harm in violation of the color of law statute. Does that apply to mayors and City Councils who restrained their police department, Minneapolis City Council and mayor de blasio. That is a legal question i want want to defer to the attorney general and the department of justice. Thank you. I yield my time. The chair recognizes the gentleman from california. I want to thank our witnesses today. Director wray, director miller for being here today and i think all the good folks that work under you in your agencies for keeping this country safe and keeping our families safe as well. And i thank you mr. Chairman thompson for holding this most important hearing. And your focus today is a central topic of this Homeland Security, which is keeping this country secure. One of the purposes this committee is to assess international as well as domestic threats to this country. One of those threats right now the biggest one i hear in my district is Election Security. Not only are foreign actors threatening the election, but there is a lot in my district about peaceful transition of power in this country. Thats been the hallmark of our democracy and a lot of my constituents are concerned if President Trump loses in november he will not relinquish power and he will try to stay in office. Reminded of al gore who lost the election in the year 2000 by a ruling of 54, United States supreme court. Im saddened that mr. Wolf is not here today because i wanted to ask him a few questions, yes or no, and i really what i really wanted from mr. Wolf is to ask him to make the same commitment as general mark milley, made. Im going to open quote him. He said i believe deeply in the principle of in a political u. S. Military. In the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, by law u. S. Courts and the u. S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes, not the military and i foresee no role for the u. S. Armed forces in this process. And i was hoping this mr. Wolf would also take that pledge. Mr. Chairman, since hes not here, i would like to submit for the record that these questions in writing and hopefully you get them to him and he will were respond to him without objection. And, gentlemen, i have a question for both of you. Sometime in midaugust the Senate Intelligence committee released its fifth and final version or volume, i should say, regarding the russian interference into the 2016 election. That Senate Report found that manafort passed sensitive Campaign Information to russian intelligence officers. And my question to both of you is, are you monitoring to make sure that its not only foreign interference into our elections but rather that campaigns here in the u. S. Are not trying to ask or solicit foreign support by Foreign Countries of domestic campaigns . Well, certainly we pursue when i am call will describe in the senate in the cisse report but also in terms of political corruption or Illegal Campaign finances, cases and things like that. Some of those are criminal investigations. Some are even Counter Terror investigations. So we certainly have a number of people working on those kinds of matters. And thats a threat we take very seriously. As part of our overall effort to protect not just our elections but our democracy from foreign interference and influence. Mr. Miller . Sir, in accordance with statute, thats beyond the remit of the National Terrorism center. We focus on lincolnages into domestically but i have no role in that and not completely familiar with all the ins and outs, sir. Im running out of time. Very quickly, mr. Miller, under a definition of terrorism, how does the concept of foreign interference of our elections, foreign manipulation of our democracy fit into the concept of terrorism . Sir, we focus on acts of violence committed against american citizens for to effect preliminary change from an International Context only. When you talk about influence and whatnot, thats a different category. That doesnt fall within our remit, sir. Mr. Chairman, im out of time. I yield. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentleman from new jersey for five minutes. Mr. Van drew. Thank you, chairman. Thank you all for being here today. Just very briefly i wanted to go back to the antifa issue. So if we have an organization that is able to communicate among different counties, different states, different areas, different cities, is able to organize when black lives matter also organizes at the same time, advertises for people to help them and they will pay them, feeds them as was said so eloquently before and takes care of them, that to me would be more than just a loosely admit group of people. I guess we want to define this a little bit. There is antifa, a group of individuals that control antifa. To some degree without question it is organized. Would you agree with that . I think what i would say is that we have seen folks who subscribe to or selfidentify with the Antifa Movement who coalesce regionally into what we refer to or think of more as small groups or nodes. They are certainly recognized at that level. Not to interrupt you. But, for example, and i understand that some people selfidentify as communists, yet there is a real communist organization that is organized at the same time. Theres something out there that deserves a very thorough investigation. Well, the last part i would say we are very thoroughly investigating. And as i mentioned, we have a number of, quite a number of properly predicated investigations being conducted by our joint teufpl task forces around the country into violent anarchist extremism. And any number of them involve people by their own admission or otherwise, toplt Antifa Movement. In some cases we see those individuals working together in a tactical organized way. In those instances it might be more of an enterprise investigation. Let me ask you this question. Black lives matters, which are good words. Black lives do matter. Black babies. Black parents. Mothers and grandfathers and human beings and human souls. Theres nothing wrong with those words. Yet it is emblematic of a system that is marxist. Get your google out. It is a marxist organization. It is also an organization that believes in some degree in overthrow and change of the country and also believes that the Nuclear Family that we know has a place no more. Is there any example or any real interaction with antifa and black lives matters, or they just happen to always be at the same place at the same time . Im not sure theres anything i could share on that certainly in this kind of setting. I guess what i would say to you and, again, its important to understand this not for you but for people listening, right . We investigate the violence. Were about the violence. Were agnostic about the ideolo ideology. We dont investigate the ideology. When it inspires violence, we will investigate the violence aggressively. When i make comments about movements and ideologies, i want to be very clear i am in no way minimizing the seriousness of the criminal conduct or violence or any way down playing the fbi investigating fully. Because the ideology of antifa is based on changing and breaking down the United States of america. So i think thats something that we have to all just yet. Im not saying it is you. But say this is something we have to teal with. We are seeing a lot of emerging threats as a result of evolving communication technology. I just want to ask you a few questions. What role have Novel Communications technologies played in the recent rise in domestic extremism. And are you getting the tools you need to deal with it. I think it flows naturally out of the first topic you raised the. The coordination, the communication and some of the frustrations that we have in really drilling into that is in part due to terrorist actors, domestic or international, relying on increasingly endto hep endtoend encrypted messaging platforms. We are getting to the point where Technology Companies are creating an entire warrantproof world in which there are devices and Communications Platforms that it doesnt matter how awful the conduct, it doesnt matter how tragic the victim or how bulletproof our court order is to get into it, we will be blinded to it. And that is a dangerous, dangerous world for us to be in and directly relevant to some of the activity youre describing but lots of other threats too. Ill take, for example, the Sutherland Springs shooting. You may remember it was one of the deadly shootings in america in texas. The phone that that shooter had, we have been trying now for three years to get into it. And this is not just an fbi problem. Its not just a federal Law Enforcement problem. If you take to state and local Law Enforcement leaders around the country like i do every day, you hear about this issue more and more all the time. And so we have to figure out a way to deal with that or were going to create a world where Law Enforcement is blind in its ability to protect kids, families and community. The gentlemans time has expired. Im sorry. Thank you very much for your time. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from north carolina. Thank you, director wray and director miller for being here. Trans National Criminal organizations present a continuing threat to our homeland and our border communities. Ive discussed efforts to curtail their efforts with secretary wolf and was hoping to continue that work today. I want to further strengthen our board security. To fully understand the threats and our defense capabilities at the southwest border, the Department Needs a mile by mile analysis of that border. I directed the department to conduct such an analysis and to develop a plan to meet gaps identified in that analysis. I understand there is a Border Security plan which is a start. And i requested they provide it to the committee as soon as possible. Moving on to cybersecurity, according to u. S. Intelligence officials, chinese and Russian Hackers are stealing Biomedical Research for a covid19 vaccine. Officials expressed concern about chinese and Russian Hackers damaging american efforts to develop a vaccine. What is the department doing to combat hackers and working with pharmaceutical academics. Congresswoman, youre correct that we are seeing efforts by our foreign adversaries to engage in cyber targeting of Covid Vaccine research, testing, technology and treatment to disrupt our National Response to the pandemic. We have recently publicly attributed some of that conduct to chinas most prolific cyber actors. I know our uk counterparts have publicly attributed some activity there on the same kind of front to russian actors as well. We have tried to be forward leaning in our outreach to companies, manufacturers, universities, research centers, et cetera when we see targeting by these adversaries so they can take appropriate steps from a cybersecurity perspective to harden their systems and prevent ex filtration of the information. So far we have been successful in getting there before valuable information has been lost. But make no mistake, this is a real cyber threat we are contending with daily. Thank you, director wray. Congressman higgins and you asked elections. Another way russia in particular is seeing to undermine the recovery is covid19 through spreading that same disinformation on the virus to create distrust within the public. Are there any distinct challenges in disrupting russias disinformation specifically on covid19 and Vaccination Efforts . Well, certainly misinformation, we share your concerns about misinformation about covid, whether its misinformation about the infectiousness of the disease itself or miss information about treatments and cures, vaccines. In some instances were able to, and we have pursued cases for various scams and schemes, essentially fraud. People pitching fraudulent tests and cures and people claiming to have the vaccine, things like that. When there is fraud involved, we can use Law Enforcement tools to go after it. Youre right to kind of draw the analogy, were not the truth police. Especially on Something Like medical issues. We defer to cdc and medical venues to correct misinformation there. It is important that people get their information in this context from the medical professionals. Making sure russia is not spreading miss information on this, you mentioned a key strategy of working to disrupt russian voices of disinformation was stopping them before they gained credibility. And so i wanted to see if in the covid19 space there is an extra challenge there if, for example, it is gaining credibility, for example, through anti vaccers. Well, certainly as we discussed, and as you mentioned, the essence of disinformation, the only way it works is to do it through voices that are viewed as credible. Im not sure that i can think of a specific example off the top of my head. If there were a situation where a credible voice paid attention to was pushing out under the guise was badly flawed and dangerous information, that would be a source on of particular concern. Thank you. My time has expired. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentleman from mississippi for five minutes. We saw just this past weekend in california the headlines from compton ambush leaves two Los Angeles County sheriffs deputies fighting for their lives. The story goes on to say a manhunt is under way in california early sunday after two Los Angeles County sheriffs deputies were shot in their patrol car by a suspect who opened fire without warning or provocation. The deputy is a 24yearold man and 31yearold woman both in Critical Condition at the time of this article and fighting for their lives as they underwent surgery following the attack. A handful of antipolice protesters show up at the hospital where the deputies were being treated. A local faith leader to pray some of the protesters were shouting slogans like death to the police. Protesters were blocking the entrance to the hospital emergency room yelling, we hope they die. In june of 2020, the ap reported california deputy shot in ambush attack at police station. A california deputy was shot in the head but survived an ambush by a gunman intent on harming or killing the police. It opened 3 40 a. M. On the backside of a police station. Abc news, july 22nd of this year, Police Officers killed surge 28 to civil unrest and those looking to exploit. Cnn, february 10th, 2020. Attacks on police are calls for alarm. The article goes to say, an armed assailant approached a marked police van in the bronx on saturday evening and opens fire on two onduty Police Officers. The suspect, who remained at large until the following morning, then on sunday police video captures a man later identified as the same suspect strolling into nypd 41st precinct before opening fire on police, wounding a lieutenant. Fox news, june of this year. Police under siege. They go through incident after incident of attack on police. Buffalo, new york, two Law Enforcement officers are struck by a vehicle monday. Another was run over during a demonstration in front of the Buffalo Police departments e district. The trooper who was run over suffered a shattered pelvis and broken leg. Cincinnati, ohio, an sister was saved by a ballistic helmet when it was struck. 132 officers had been injured. Davenport, iowa, Undercover Police officer was struck twice by governor. Las vegas Police Officer was on life support after being shot in the head monday during a protest. Minnesota, shots were fired at Law Enforcement officers near a Minnesota Police station last week. On may 28th, another, which means a Second Police precinct in the city was set ablaze. New york, new york Police Officer was seen being struck by a vehicle in a deliberate hit and run. Oakland, california. Several shots were fired at Oakland Police headquarters. A federal Law Enforcement officer was also shot and killed from i night. We see story after story against violence of our First Responders. The very men and women who put their safety in jeopardy to protect us are under attack. I ask you what intelligence, what information can you share about these attacks and what can we do as congress to better protect our First Responders . Well, first let me say although im familiar with every one of those incidents that you described, hearing you go through them again is yet another reminder to me about how tragic this is. And i think its important for americans to take a deep breath for a second and think about what it means for somebody to put his or her life on the line for a complete stranger. Then think about what it means to get up every morning and do that day after day after day. And as i said in response to i think one of the earlier questions, and you have touched on through your comments, the number of officers feloniously killed in the line of duty this year is up significantly from last year. Thats not including all the officers lost to covid. Thats not counting all the officers who miraculously survived an attack but whose lives are forever altered. Thats not counting the officers who died in things like a vehicle incident as they are racing to the crime scene. And as i mentioned i think to congressman bishop, one of the things i started doing when i started in this job, i decided i was going to call every time an officer is shot and killed through adversarial action, i was going to call myself the chief or the sheriff and express my condolences on behalf of the fbi. Each time i do it, i ask my staff to give me a picture, a photograph of the officer and a description of their family so i know how many kids they had, how old the kids were. A guy who was recently engaged to be married, six months from his wedding day, was killed. And i will never forget, for example, having to call in your home state to brookhaven, mississippi where they lost two officers in a single incident in a department of, you know, i want to say less than 30 people. Every Single Person knew those two officers. I understand people in this country are angry and upset and hurt, and i get that. And theres reasons to be angry and upset. No means to minimize their concern and hurt. But the Law Enforcement family is hurting too. And these people who put on the uniform and go out to protect all of us and our families every day deserve some level of appreciation. And i appreciate your comment. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you very much, director wray, for the record, i think theres no issue around support for Law Enforcement on this committee. Its consistently been there. Its only when the rules get changed is there a concern. And i might ask mr. Rose to talk a little bit about the rules. After 9 11 congress did quite a bit towards supporting the men and women and their families who lost their lives. And all of a sudden in the middle of this, new york gets penalized in terms of the resources that congress had already approved. So its those kind of things. With that i yield to the gentleman from new york. Chairman, thank you. Director wray, director miller, first of all, we have we do not have a Domestic Terrorist Organization in america. We have a foreign terrorist designation. Thats correct . Okay. Aside from a domestic terrorist designation, which is in our legislative pursue, something i support, some republicans do not support. Some democrats do not support. Do you need any other further resources to go after criminal organizations in the United States of america that are organizing to inflict violence on american citizens, Law Enforcement especially . Well, i think i would put resources in sort of two categories. One is funding, right, for data analytics, which i can explain why thats relevant, to boots on the ground, et cetera. So theres that piece of it. And then i would say there are tools. We always want more tools. And i touched on one of the concerns earlier which is this endtoend encryption issue. When we talk about organizations and communicating with each other, if we move into a world in which bad guys have a choice between putting all of their information and communications in platforms or devices that are warrant proof, utterly beyond reach of law, no matter how rock solid the legal case is, i dont think that is a judgment they should be making on behalf of the American People. I most certainly agree. Can you please commit to getting us in memory form or list form, the tools you think you need to keep us safe and our Law Enforcement officials safe and our citizens safe from violent criminal organizations in the United States. We would be happy to follow up. Thank you. Lets see that we can unite around something here rather than what it appears that we are doing. I want to move on to the threat of White Supremacists globally, domestically. Director miller, looking at the existing list of stdgs and ftos, put that list aside. Which organizations are you concerned with, particularly in the White Supremacist Organization front . As you noted thank you. Its nice to have an army veteran here, by the way. Yeah. Russian Imperial Movement as you know we designate. Absolutely. Which i thought was a real strong statement in a good way. We see the other groups. You see whats going on in germany right now. Which groups . Oh, geez. They change their names so fast these days to keep ahead of us. Right. So azov, 18. Sure. If you look at any of the global groups, do you see them in Central Europe or otherwise, any connections between those groups and domestic organizations . Nothing monolithic. We are not picking up anything of a routine systemic connection. I think what you will see is more ad hoc, because they are all sitting online together chatting, but have not picked up anything deliberate. But you are seeing communications and interactions, physical movement of people at all . Other than that, as you know, with russian Imperial Movement, there will be westerners that have gone out to some of their training. To fight in crimea. Yeah. Do we know who all of those individuals are who have gone to partner with azov and come back here . I cant say we know all of them. Do you think thats a problem . Is it probable no. Is that a problem . Would you say we know everyone. No. Would you say we have a system some place for those who have tried to work with isis or al qaeda . Like director wray noted, with Communications Technology the way it is now, i would like to say we know but i cannot say we definitively know everyone that has gone overseas to support foreign terror organizations. Would you support this administration looking at looking at stg organizations so as to assist us in fighting this new terrorist threat . I think we have an extraordinarily robust and solid system for doing that and we look at that regularly to see if we are aligned correctly or if there are any other organizations that should be designated. To include those organizations that you just referred to earlier that are not presently on the list . Correct. Okay. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. Garcia, for five minutes. In thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you to Ranking Member rogers for the warm welcome. Really appreciate it as a student of National Security as a former front line operator and steward of developing National Security technologies and doctrine. It really is an honor to be here, especially in this era of our nations history. Director wray, director miller, thank you for being here today and taking the time to help educate us. Keep us aligned and keep both sides of the aisle informed. Really appreciate it. Director wray, i think your comments, the single biggest threat to our nations security right now is our politicians and government leaders, especially at the state and local levels, the city levels, to not get their collective programs together and support Law Enforcement. As my colleague from mississippi, mr. Guess, mentioned, it is getting ugly out there. It is getting uglier out there. As leaders of government, if we dont make it Crystal Clear and entrepreneur ambiguously we support those as a policy but also through funding this will get worse. I really appreciate your comments and commitment to that. And i also appreciate your condemnation of previous abuses of power by your organization and look forward to affixing those things of the past. Appreciate you both being here. I would like to pivot to a slightly different conversation and topic if we can. In my district, i come from southern california. We were unfortunately the site of a mass casualty at a local high school where we lost two of our beloved teens less than a year ago. Where i come from, i was formal naval aviator. We would convene a safety investigative board or review. The team would go for six to nine months and look at every element, what the pilot ate, what medications he was on, what his family life was like, what his emotional state was, what his Mental Health state was and come back to the entire fleet and debrief us, what went wrong, what went right in some cases, how could we have avoided that situation. In our country, we dont seem to have anything like that for mass casualty incidents. We have these fatalities at high schools. We have mass casualties in different venues, different types of weapons. We hear about it in the news. It makes front line stories for a couple of weeks. Then it goes away. We sometimes dont remember the specifics and the details. I guess my question is why dont we have that. Why dont we have a mass casualties Lessons Learned report that becomes public domain. We can redact things to protect personal private information. Withen that we can get Lessons Learned about what his parents saw, what the kid was going through, what tell tale issues were prevalent. And i bet we find common denominators. Something as parents we can read, teachers we can read. Classmates can have access to it and as a nation we can understand what led to some of these incidents. Why dont we have that . What do we need to do in order to get to that and have it available to all 330 million well, congressman, i appreciate the question. I think we do have some of that actually. We at the fbi have done a number of studies of not individual selfcontained mass casualty attacks but weve looked at the trend of them. We have looked at the collection, the universe of them over a longer period of time and have generated some reports about indicators that might have tipped people off if they had known what to look for. And so we have tried to get some of that information out. A number of field offices, i mentioned all 56 of our field officers, met with Law Enforcement in each place. And a number of offices are doing outreach efforts with schools and neighborhoods in their aor, their area of responsibility to kind of better educate people as to what to look for. Because one of the things we have learned, and frankly the same thing applies on the terrorism incidents, is that if you look back theres almost always someone, a classmate, a family member, a neighbor, a coworker, who saw, at least with the benefit of hindsight, saw a change in behavior or transformation. And you hear us say all the time, if you see something, Say Something. Most of us picture the unattended backpack in the bus station. Of course we want people of course if they see something to Say Something there. But if they see something about somebody to Say Something. And so the more we can educate people as to behavioral patterns to be concerned about, a lot of this is very individualized because people are individualized. So its the people who know the baseline of behavior of the person to know, wait a minute, has changed now. I should go to the School Security stperbgs i should contact Law Enforcement, et cetera. So thats part of it. There is also Lessons Learned in terms of hardening our schools. Theres been a lot of work done with state and local partners on that. There is an infrastructure piece of it. It will take kind of a collaborative Law Enforcement Education Community partnership to do it. Yeah. Im out of time. But i will just say i think we need a concerted effort to try to make some of the documents and Lessons Learned truly accessible to every american out there so that were actually benefiting from foresight and not just commiserating on hindsig hindsight. Thats the path forward. Gentlemen, thank you for your time. The chair recognize the the gentle lady from michigan, ms. Slotkin. Thank you to the witnesses for being here. I appreciate it. Theres been back and forth on whether acting secretary wolf should have been here. Whatever the reason, given that this is a world life threats hearing the secretary should have come here and this idea that someone under Senate Confirmation cant appear is actually factually incorrect. I know that since i was under Senate Confirmation when i was called to testify many times. Let me ask about mr. Wray, you have been really helpful and being straight and clear about kind of the threats that are going on out there. Can you talk about level of effort extremist violence, domestic extremist violence. You have talked about in this hearing how youre seeing 2019 i think you said was one of the greatest levels of Domestic Violence we have seen in the country for some time since oklahoma city. Can you tell me how many cases you have open . If you dont know the exact number, just approximately. You have opened on groups that are white supremacist versus groups that are coming from the left. Just the level of effort that the fbi is employing right now. Well, im trying to think what i can say certainly off the top of my head on numbers. I will say that let me start with this. As a general rule, we have each year lately we have been having roughly 1,000 domestic terrorism investigations a year. Its higher than that this year. Yeah. You know, a good bit north of 1,000 this year. I know that we have had about 120 arrests for domestic terrorism this year. Now, that number of investigations, 1,000 plus and the 120 arrests, thats domestic terrorism across the board, right . Yeah. Everything from racially motivated violence extremists, militia types, sovereign citizens, you name it. Of the domestic terrorism threats, we last year elevated racially motivated violent extremist to be a National Threat priority commensurate with homegrown violent extremists, jihadist inspired people, and isis. So thats important, right . What you are saying is the level of threat from domestic terrorists across the board, regardless of ideology, is at the same level as homegrown terrorists that have connections to a foreign terrorist organization. Did i hear you correctly . We are treating it as a priority in terms of our intention and resources. I assume you are giving it that attention because it deserves that attention because the threat has elevated from a time im a former cia officer. We were doing a lot of foreign terrorist nexus stuff in 2005, 2006, 2007 through the last ten years. I think its interesting that domestic terrorism has elevated in the fbis eyes. Yes. And i think the thing that we are all struggling with is, you know, these homegrown terrorists of every flavor and type. Just in the number of either cases or arrests, how many are White Supremacists. If not the exact number, is it the same as other types of domestic terrorism . Is it higher . Just give us a level of a proximate numbers. Racially motivated violent extremism is the biggest bucket within the larger group. Within the racially motivated extremist bucket, people ascribing to some white supremacist ideology is the biggest chunk of that. Okay. Thats very helpful. So White Supremacists are the largest chunk of the racially motivated domestic terrorism. Yes. And i would also add racially motivated violent extremists over recent years have been responsible for the most lethal. Domestic terrorism lethal attacks have been in antideposit, antiauthority, from anarchy to militia types. We dont think in terms of left, right. Yeah. I understand. Thats not the way we look at the world. I understand. Just my last seconds ill be submitting some questions for the record for mr. Wolf commensurate with the questions i submitted to chairman milley in and around our elections and the peaceful transition of power. But thanks very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. In line with ms. Slotkins question, mr. Wray, you know, Congress Passed a law the data act. Its referred to as the domestic and International Terrorism act that requires the production of a report identifying everything that ms. Slotkin talked about. Are you familiar with that . I am familiar with it, yes, mr. Chairman. And you know we are three months late on the production on of that report . And so im certainly aware of the report and the requirement. I will say that and im aware its delayed and behind schedule. I know that the first report of the ones that are called for, it is my understanding its complete and that its in the inter Agency Approval process. It should be forth coming soon. Unfortunately with covid, of course when the nda was passed, no one anticipated the impact of covid and the people and the impacts it would have on our workforce. Thats been the big part of our delay. I understand the importance of it. I know we have been engaging with you and your staff in terms of providing briefings as well. We will get it to you just as fast as we can. I think it is important that all members of congress have access just to the data. And if theres some followups from it, its fine. But congress has spoken. And i hope you follow. The gentleman recognize the the chair recognizes the general from new york for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you both for being here today. I appreciate it very much. Spent a lot of my waking hours down here in washington on Election Security and cybersecurity. I could talk to you all for hours. I do want to pause for a second, director wray, to commend the work of the fbi agents on a regular basis. You dont hear that enough, and you should. For 20 years before i came to congress, i was a federal organized crime prosecutor. Some of the best cases i ever did had heavy involvement by the fbi, police corruption, political corruption, gang cases and homicides. So i just want to commend the line agents day in and day out who do all the great work. And i convey my thank you to them. Theres plenty of ways i can go here. One thing that has been gnawing at me and i want to touch on real quick for both of you, because i have another question, that is when the new York City Police department was cut by a billion dollars or oneseubgt of their budget and knowing it is the primary target in the world for terrorists to attack, im just curious if either one of you have had any concerns that have arisen because of the lack of funding they now have . Director wray. Well, first, let me say i appreciate your kind words about the hard working men and women of the fbi. Our folks had a tough job before this year. And certainly covid didnt make it any easier. And im really proud of the hard work thats gone on in terms of keeping our people and their families safe but not letting up on the mission. And the results are pretty extraordinary, frankly. As far as new york, as somebody who grew up in new york city and still has family there, i care deeply about the safety of that city in a very personal way. And certainly i dont think its appropriate for the fbi director to wade into sort of political debates, local or otherwise. But i think our Police Officers, including the nypd Police Officers, are extraordinary Public Servants who have a very, very, very tough job to have, to undertake. And i think people really ought to think carefully about the ramifications of making that job harder. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Miller . Thank you, congressman. And obviously last friday as we recognized the 19th anniversary our hearts went out to new york city. And we were dispinted we werent able to go up. But of course with covid19 and whatnot, we werent able to do that. Im hopeful next year, the 20th anniversary will be in an entirely different place in this global war against terrorism. And we will good news on al qaedas demise. I just wanted to highlight, we have the most unbelievable partnership with the nypd. We have an analyst. Shes magical. Imbedded into the National Counterterrorism center. And we talked to nypd probably three or four times a day. Im not familiar with total honesty, im not familiar with the cuts. Look into that, absolutely. And if theres anything we can do to support, obviously will. Between the joint Terrorism Task force and the nypd, theyre just remarkable partners. We want to help in any way we can thank you very much. Director wray, i spend a lot of time on Election Security. Its one of my grittest concerns. Everything from making sure that the machines dont get hacked into. And im really confident on that. To the high concern i have about the possible obstruction in the process of the election by foreign actors such as russia and iran and china. And im also concerned about like in new york state there is a delay of eight days before they start counting absentee ballots after the election, which delays the results which delays the individuals belief in the results. Im concerned about that. You testified on a lot of different aspects. Whats your biggest concern about Election Security Going Forward this fall . There are a lot of aspects we are concerned about and you touched on some of them. In many ways what concerns me the most is the steady drum beat of misinformation and sort of amputation of smaller cyber intrusions that contribute overtime. I worry they will contribute over time to a lack of confidence of American Voters and citizens in the validity of their vote. I think that would be a per sepgdz not a reality. I think americans can and should have confidence in our election system. And certainly in our democracy. But i worry people will take on a feeling of futility because of all the noise and confusion thats generated. And that is a very hard problem to combat. Thank you very much. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from missouri. You need to unmute yourself. We will well, we will well go to mr. Green. Well go to mr. Green for five minutes. Yes, mr. Chairman. Can you hear me . Yes, we have you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank the witnesses for appearing, and im especially interested in a topic related to violent activity. I have in my hand, mr. Chairman, a story from the Washington Post dated september 14th, 2020. And it is styled trump health appointee Michael Caputo warns of armed insurrection after election. The relevant portion of the story that is quoted reads, and when donald trump refuses to stand down at the inauguration, the shooting will begin. He warned in video. The drills that you have seen are nothing. If you carry guns, buy ammunition, ladies and gentlemen because its going to be hard to get. Mr. Director of the fbi, you pride yourself on your independence, do you not . Im sorry, i have a little bit of a hard time hearing the very end of you pride yourself on your independence, do you not . I do pride myself on my independence. Youll investigate anybody or any opportunity to prevent a crime, is this correct . We will follow the facts and the law and nothing else, and well aggressively pursue any criminal activity. Can you explain to me kindly, sir, why you have not pursued the facts and the law as it relates to mr. Caputo and these statements . He appears to be warning us of some sort of impending crisis related to violence. Well, i dont want to try to engage in whether or not theres any particular investigative activity going on that might be somehow related to all of that. What i would say is that we dont investigate rhetoric, and we will investigate when we have proper predication of a federal criminal violation. Well, if i may you can be assured, if we have a situation where we have the facts and the law and the evidence that we will pursue it without regard to any other consideration. Permit me to ask this. Mr. Caputo is a part of was a part of the administration. He appears to be on some sort of leave right now. He has indicated that there is going to be violence. It would seem to me that, at least an interview would be in order. Why have you not interviewed him . Congressman, im not particularly familiar with the Public Comments that you are referring to, but as ive said, if we see credible evidence of violent criminal activity that is a federal crime, we will pursue that activity. Mr. Chairman, may i kindly insert the Washington Post article in the record without objection . Without objection. Thank you. Back to you, again, mr. Director of the fbi, my hope is that my calling this to your attention today will give you sufficient reason. Weve got a member of the United States congress who is bringing to you intelligence that has been reported publicly that a member of the administration has made comments that there will be violence if there is a refusal to stand down by a person who is associated with the presidency. My hope is that this is sufficient for you to at least interview someone. Let me move to the director of National Counterterrorism. Would this intelligence not seem to indicate there may be some sort of activity that would fall under your umbrella if this is credible information, mr. Director miller . Sir, thanks for the question. My focus and remit is connections between International Terrorist organizations and any u. S. Domestic violent extremists or homegrown violent extremists. I have to ask now rhetorically, what does it take to investigate someone associ e associated with this administration that makes these kind of comments . This seems to be fairly serious to me. I likely will be at the inauguration, and we have a person who is associated with the administration who is indicating that bullets are going to fly, and shooting will begin. These are his words. It would seem to me this should be sufficient. So im going to ask, as a member of congress, that the fbi perform its duties as an independent agent, having favor for none, investigate this and please report to me if you would if the committee does not desire to know, would you kindly report to me what your findings are to the extent that you can . I yield back, mr. Chair. Thank you. The chair recognize cleaver for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I apologize for my technological failure earlier. Let me also, first of all, say i would like to thank you, mr. Chairman, for your leadership. I look at leadership as being measured by how they function during a crisis, and were in a crisis, and i think weve handled it magnificently. Director wray, let me just say the polarization is rising frighteningly, and at least and i think its helping to create a new and growing and dangerous through our country now. Were becoming a nation where people want to live in neighborhoods where people have similar ideologies and we loa e loathe and we condemn lying in a little small circle in which we might function. But we accept it, even praise it when its done, too chief some sort of political now let me just say i have to say i appreciate you and the way you handle the department. I can tell you, i tremble at night because we have seen many of our institutions damaged over the last few years and people in positions of significance have allowed those organizations to bend to the will of politicians. And i have not seen that with the fbi. Id like for you to address, if you can, you know, where the fbi stands in terms of the morale and whether the fbi is now in a situation where we depend on it to consider its central objectivity. And i also end by just saying that your presentation today is something that i want to express appreciation for. But where is the fbi right now in terms of the guys out on the streets doing all the work we need to be doing to protect the United States of america. Well, congressman, i want to tell you, i very much appreciate your kind words to our folks and the question. I will say that i could not be more proud of our people, and, you know, whenever you ask questions about Something Like morale, its a hard thing sometimes to measure, but ill give you a few pieces of information that i think are extremely good news. One is that last year, and this has been a trend over the few years of my tenure as fbi director, our attrition rate is down to 0. 4 , 0. 5 , so less than 1 . There are very few organizations in this country that have an attrition rate that low. But an even better piece of news is on the recruiting side. Last year, we had triple triple the number of people in this country applying. These are qualified applicants to be special agents of the fbi. The prior years, the highest number in about a decade. And this year were on track to be even higher. And so i think thats a very positive signal about the brand of the fbi and the currency of the fbi out all across the country and among the public. You know, just in the middle of covid, our folks have, you know, opened Something Like 750 covid fraud investigations, 600plus violent gang members arrested in the course of a single month. I mentioned the terrorist attacks we thwarted. I think in fiscal year 20 weve recovered 500plus kids who were victims of human trafficking. I can go on and on and on. But theyre doing all that despite the challenges of the current environment. I say im honored but really im humbled to be working with them. Thank you. It would have been great if secretary wolf had been here. I think, unfortunately, tragically and painfully, his absence does continue to do damage to the democracy. I would like to yield back to you at this time, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from illinois, ms. Underwood. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Your agencies have identified domestic violent extremism, particularly White Supremacy. As a leading threat to our homeland. Last month, a teen from my district in antioch, illinois, went to kenosha, wisconsin, where he allegedly killed two people with an ar15 style rife amid the protests there. Weve seen too many examples of this kind of deadly violence being fueled by online extremism. And now with a combating method requires a thoughtful approach to safeguard american civil liberties. Director wray, in explaining the fbis approach to domestic extremism, you said, quote, the fbi is only concerned with responsive ideas and constitutionally protected protests to violence. In the days before the shootings in kenosha, the Atlantic Councils Digital Forensic research lab found that folks in militias were publicly organizing for armed individuals to travel to kenosha. A socalled militia leader wrote Law Enforcement is outnumbered. Take up arms and defend our city tonight from the evil thugs. Another user wrote, quote, i am on the way with 75 people from green bay. We have lots of guns. Lots of pipe bombs. Going to cleanse the streets of rioters. A third writer wrote, attention all nonwhite and degenerates of kenosha. You have until sundown to pack up your belongings and leave the area. After that, anything that happens to you or your children will be your fault. And a fourth wrote, shoot to kill. Director wray, are these ideas or threats of violence . Im sorry, at the very last part, the question itself, i couldnt quite hear. Im not sure if its director wray, are these ideas or threats of violence . Well, without reference to any specific case, certainly language about violence can in certain instances be part of the offense and can be threats. We pursue threats to commit violence, not just the actual commission of violence. To your knowledge, did facebook at any point provide any of these kenosha specific threats to federal Law Enforcement . I cant, sitting here right now, speak to any specific tips or threats. I will say that we get lots of leads and tips from facebook and work closely with them on a lot of terrorism issues. In light of the violence that occurred at similar events this year, we can all agree statements like these concerning. Thats why its so important to share this information as soon as possible with local officials like those in kenosha so they can make effective plans to keep their community safe. And i want to be clear, i am speaking here about statements publicly posted online. Often under users real names, not about private communications. Director wray, what steps if any, did the fbi take to alert state and local officials in wisconsin about these specific threats of violent activity in their area . Well, congresswoman, theres a few things i would say on this topic. First, just to be clear, we dont have people we, fbi, dont have the resources or the authority to just sit on social media and troll for i didnt ask you i know youre not suggesting that. But im just making sure the people out there understand. Sir, we have limited time. Answer the question. Im sorry . We have limited time. If you could answer the question. But so what we do do, we have, in addition to the relationships we have with social Media Companies, we have something called ntoc, our National Threat operation center, that has both callin lines, you know, 1800callfbi and director wray, excuse me, sir, i asked if you took steps to alert the local officials. Yes, and so what im getting to is that the National Threat operation center, when it gets threats and tips of this sort that youre describing, we have a mechanism by which we feed that information as quickly as possible to state and local Law Enforcement so they can take appropriate action. We have a system reclaiming my time. The director is not answering specifically whether or not the fbi alerted state and local officials in wisconsin. Id like that noted for the record. The day after the kenosha shootings, i heard from someone that said theres a militia cell in antioch thats becoming more and more emboenlded to take the law into their own hands and im becoming fearful to send my children to the same schools as white supremacist members militia members. Domestic extremism and White Supremacy post critical threats to our homeland. Stop deadly extremist violence, federal Law Enforcement and their partners must seize on opportunities to intervene before the violence begins. And i am looking forward to working together with you, director wray, on improving our ability to prevent violent threats from becoming violent actions. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. I am disappointed not all our witnesses fulfilled their duty help the American People understand the threats to our National Security, and i yield back. Thank you very much. The gentle lady yields back. Recognizing general lady from new york, ms. Clark for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank our Ranking Member rodgers. As our nation faces immeasurable from the rise of white supremacist terrorist groups to the risk of cyberattacks crippling our crittial infrastructure, this committee has a responsibility to conduct oversight and ensure the executive branch is doing its job. But congress can only fulfill our constitutional role if the executive branch follows the law and appears before us when subpoenaed. Id like to thank director wray and director miller iffar peering before us today. Also id like to condemn in the strongest possible terms mr. Wolfs refusal to appear before us and comply with the lawfully issued subpoena. His refusal to testify is yet another example of the lawlessness that has infected the department of Homeland Security. Mr. Wolf may not want to answer for his departments actions for removing the uteruses of i. C. E. Detainees to manipulating intelligence to minimize russian meddling in our election, but when a Congressional Committee must show up. And with that i turn to my questions. My first question is actually for you, director wray. And its a bit parochial and to do with my district. Yesterday i joined in a letter to the new York City Police department signed by two new york state legislators, two members of congress and members of the new york city council, regardless regarding, excuse me alleged cooperation between the fbi and the nypd in a community in my district. Specifically, it alleged in light of new yorks new state level bail laws, investigations that would have previously been handled by local officials, the nypd, are now being turned into federal cases. Are you aware of any arrangement of this nature between the bureau and the nypd . Im not familiar with the specific issue youre referring to at least in new york. I will say that okay. Will you look into it and get back to me on this . Id be happy to take a look. You said there was a letter that youd written this was sent actually sent to our local police commissioner, but the there was a Public Statement made by one of our Police Officials that they are working with the fbi, and so id like to get some clarity around what this arrangement is, if it exists at all. Okay. Well, ill have my staff follow up with your staff to get a little more information and see if there is information we could provide that would be helpful to you. Wonderful. I appreciate that. Id like to ask a question about the recent resurgence of White Supremacists against africanamericans, Jewish Americans latinos and so many others. Politico recently obtained a draft dhs 2020 homeland threat assessment which describes White Supremacists as the deadliest domestic Terror Threat currently facing the nation, but subsequent drafts diminished this warning. What is your assessment of the deadliest domestic terrorist threat currently facing the nation, and have you ever faced political pressure or been or have received a request from any other element of the u. S. Government to alter the assessment . Well, first, let me say my commitment to calling it straight extends not just to our investigations but to our intelligence assessments. Thats been my commitment since day one, and it continues, and will continue, as long as im sitting in this role. And we have continued to take that approach to all of our intelligence assessments on my watch. As far as the the issue about danger and domestic terrorism threats, what i would say is that we assess that the most dangerous threat to the homeland encompasses lone actors radicalized often online with easily accessible weapons against soft targets. That includes homegrown extremists, including jihadi inspired and domestic extremists within all sorts. Within the domestic violent extremists we assessed racially motivated, racially and ethnically motivated by extremists is, has been responsible for the most lethal activity over the last several years, and thats why we i asked specifically about White Supremacists. Are they included in that threat assessment . Yes. So within within the racially and ethnically motivated violent extremists, i would say the biggest chunk of those, i cant give a percentage, the biggest chunk are individuals motivated by some form of white supremacist ideology and thats that group, the racially motivated extremist has been responsible for the most lethal activity in the last few years. As a point of clarification this year, the lethal attacks weve all seen have been from antigovernment or antiauthority types but if you go back over the past few years its been the racially motivated extremists that have had the most impact in the homeland. I give back the balance of my time. Recognizing the gentle lady from las vegas, ms. Titus, for five minutes. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Can you hear me . Yes, we can. Thank you. Im sorry. I, too, am sorry, mr. Wolf wasnt here because i wanted to ask him about the limitation on j1 visas which is keeping several dozen special ed teachers from coming to clark county. And i really dont think special ed teachers are a threat to the homeland, but nonetheless. Director wray, despite your protest to the contrary that the fbi is not being politicized, weve seen increasing politicization of the Justice Department under attorney general barr. This crossed a longstanding line that has not we dont usually expect or see or tolerate this sort of thing from our nations Law Enforcement. Just yesterday, the attorney general told the nations federal prosecutors, this is virtually a quote, to be aggressive when charging certain demonstrators with crimes including the crime of sedition. Now, sedition, you know, is an act of inciting revolt or violence against a Lawful Authority with the goal of destroying or overthrowing it. Now, put that in the context of the fact that fbi officials earlier this year described the perpetrators of some of these actions at demonstrations as largely opportunistic individuals taking advantage of the protest. Then we had a report by Armed Conflict location, an event data project, which monitors political upheaval around the world. They looked at 7,750 protests from may 26th to august 22nd and 2,400 locations, and all 50 states, and in washington and found 93 of the protests were peaceful. Third, weve seen the statement by the former federal prosecutor, federal attorney from eastern virginia who said, well, if youre Eastern District of virginia, mr. Rosenberg who said, if barr is saying if you have a sedition case, then bring it. Thats okay. But if hes urging people to stretch to bring one, thats deeply dangerous to our constitution. I wonder if under these new directives from attorney general barr whos apparently trying to shore up the president s law and order image, youre going to change your approach to dealing with some of the people involved in these demonstrations . If youre going to look at building a case for sedition . Its difficult to prove, but maybe youll set out to do that . Could you kind of describe how this might make a difference in the crimes that you pursue against some of these people . Well, congresswoman, im not familiar with the the conversation thats been attributed to the attorney general, you know, in the press. So i cant really comment on that specifically. I will say my commitment, our commitment, is to pursue justice in every investigation. To follow the facts, follow the law and follow proper predication. And we have a commitment to protect the American People and uphold the constitution and were going to do both in every investigation. That includes in this context. Could you talk a little bit about the crime of sedition and what it would take to prove it . And do you see any cases pending out there now that might fit under this kind of charge . Well, i will confess that im not a legal expert on the crime of sedition. So im not sure that i would i would have to brush up on that to be able to really answer your question in the intelligent way i think you would expect of me. Certainly there is dangerous violent criminal activity that is occurring amidst some of the protests around the country, and we, i think, have a responsibility to pursue that activity aggressively, but appropriately. Even if numerically even if numerically it may not be the lions share of the protesters, by any stretch of the imagination, it doesnt take more than one person to engage in sometimes lethal activity against others. So we have a responsibility to pursue that, but you can be confident were going to pursue that based solely on the facts and the law and the appropriate evidence and not based on any kind of improper or partisan consideration. Would you think that mayor durkin or governor jay inslee are domestic terrorists because of whats happened in seattle as has been suggested perhaps by this administration . Im not familiar with the particular comments that youre referring to, so i really cant comment on that. Well, i know, im just asking, do you think they would fit the category of domestic terrorist based on whats been happening in seattle . Im sorry. Do i think who is a domestic terrorist . Mayor durkin and governor inslee . I wouldnt be describing them that way, but i will say, i dont tend to comment on people as ascribe labels of terrorists or criminal activity to people except when were speaking through our charges. Thats how i would communicate about that. I appreciate that. I wish some other members of the administration felt the same way. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you. Chair recognizes the gentle lady from new jersey, ms. Watsoncoleman. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for the service that you render. The job that you do. Your willingness to be here and have an exchange of views. Mr. Wray, i have a series of followup questions. Congresswoman underwood asked you about investigations, and you did not answer whether or not you would be pursuing those investigations at her request. So is that a yes or a no . I will confess, congresswoman, that i was having an extremely hard time hearing congresswoman underwood. I dont know if it was the quality of the audio connection, or, perhaps, because she was appropriately wearing a mask that i couldnt hear through the mask. So i will confess i really couldnt understand the question very well, and i was doing my best to answer it to the best of my ability. So probably makes more sense for me to followup with her staff offline to make sure that i understood the question. Good. Thank you. What about congressman al greens request that you investigate the statements that mr. Caputo made while he was a spokesman at the dhs impacting what the cdc was saying, and his notion of, there would be violence and that the scientists were actually i think the terminology is creating, were seditious in their actions . Will you be investigating that . I know you said you didnt know the comments that were made, but now that you know, will you be investigating that . Well, first congresswoman, let me say, as you may know, we dont ever confirm or deny the existence of investigations. So when we get requests from members of congress to investigate something, which happens all the time, we will take the evidence thats submitted. If somebody has credible evidence of a crime, well review the evidence and decide what to do about it. Okay. Then can you tell me a couple of things. Number one is, do you do you feel that voting by mail as a result of the pandemic and in anticipation of having the largest turnout in voting at a time when we have this pandemic, do you believe that there is a widespread fraudulence and abuse historically in voting by mail . Thats a yes or a no. Well, im not with respect, im not sure it easily lends itself to a yes or no question, but i will answer the question. We take all electionrelated crimes seriously including voter fraud, whether inperson or i guess my question is, my question is, it is a yes or no question. Is there this sort of experience, historical record, of wide of wide abuse of widespread abuse of voting by mail . Yes or no . We have not seen a, to date thank you. A coordinated National Voter fraud effort in a major election. We have certainly investigated yes. We have certainly investigated, if i may finish, we certainly have investigated voter fraud committed by mail. Its typically been at the local level and and very isolated circumstances, i suspect. Im just wondering how often you get to speak to the attorney general and if you would use your good graces and the respect we have for you to sort of ask him to stop spreading such misinformation about voting integrity. I want to ask you a couple of questions about White Supremacists and first of all, let me ask you about black lives matter. Does black lives matter represent an organization to you . Is that a yes or a no . I understand that there is an organization that calls itself black lives matter. Okay. Do you have it listed as a terrorist organization . No. Do you have any reason to believe that it is a terrorist organization . Well, we dont we dont categorize domestic organizations as terrorist organizations under the law because theres no mechanism for that. Okay. Have you found any individuals that have aligned themselves with black lives matter as a perpetrator of any of the violent actions that youve seen take place in what was Peaceful Demonstrations organized by black lives matter . Allies . I cant, sitting here right now, speak to specific cases. I know that we have had a wide range of domestic violent extremists in midst of current protest activity engaging in violence or destruction of property, and whether in any one of those cases somebody may have aligned themselves or associated themselves with black lives matter, sitting here right now, i cant think of one but i dont know for sure. Thank you. Do you know whether or not theyve been aligned with White Supremacists bugaloo, militia groups or whatever sort of rightwing groups . Well, weve had a number of investigations involving some of the activity were talking about. Domestic violence extremism, that in some instances, as ive mentioned, are people who are associating themselves with various anarchist ideologists like antifa and associated themselves with like the bugaloos, for example. I mentioned the case in my exchange with congresswoman lesko about the minneapolis individuals, for example, who associated themselves with the bugaloos and ultimately were also ensnared in trying to show and provide support to hamas. And then theres some other cases weve had involving bugaloo activity, i believe, perhaps the individuals who the individual who killed the fps officer out in oakland may have referenced bugaloo inspiration. The gentle ladys time has expired. Chair recognizes thank you, mr. Chairman. Yes. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from florida, ms. Demings. Thank you. Thank you to both of our witnesses for being here today. I am disappointed mr. Wolf did not join us today and ignored our subpoena. I have always expected and kind of prided the fact that the department of justice Homeland Security, those in the Intelligence Agency would act above the fray, act above politics, keep us safe. Hold bad actors accountable and eagerly appear to tell their own story on behalf of the men and women that they work for and the American People. So director miller and director wray, thank you both for being with us today. I can also say that i am grateful for the work that the men and women in Law Enforcement do every day, and i can say that, and hold them accountable when they are engaged in wrongdoing, all at the same time. The men and women in Law Enforcement do not deserve nor need to be used as political pawns as i believe we have heard too much today. I think they are clear on who they work for, and thats, they work on behalf of the American People. Before i get into my line of questioning for the reasons we are here today, director wray, following up on my colleague ms. Titus line of questioning about the attorney generals agenda. You know, were in a strange place right now. We are just hearing strange things all the time. And what i did hear recently, the attorney general say that really concerned me. He said, like i say to the fbi agents, whose agents do you think you are . Now, director wray, as we think about Law Enforcement and the very nonpartisan role that Law Enforcement is engaged in or should be, to alleviate any confusion to the American People, how do you respond to that comment from the attorney general . Im not familiar with that particular comment from the attorney general. I will say we, the fbi, work for the American People. Okay. Thank you so much for clearing that up. Secondly, i know both of you have said that pretty much the biggest threat or these persons who, we would consider as lone wolves, lone individuals, homegrown, violent extremists, how much would you say that they have taken advantage, when we look at the number of protests that weve seen around the country, how much would you say, and i admit the acoustics are not the best in here. How much would you say they have taken advantage of the number of protests to really spread their own individual purpose calls and message, and what can we anticipate as we get closer to the election from them . Well, certainly we have seen amidst some of the protests in some cities at certain times dangerous, violent extremism committed by people from a variety of ideology who are hijacking those protests as cover or best word i could use is cover for their own ability to engage in violence and dangerous criminality. I think one of the phenomenons that that lends itself to is not just dangerous to small businesses, dangerous to Law Enforcement, which we talked about already, but frankly danger to the other protesters as well. The people who are there peacefully then find themselves in the line of fire. So its activity we need to pursue aggressively using every tool, lawful and appropriate tool we have in the toolbox. One of the things we started to see more and more of that i am concerned about, this goes to your question about what can we expect to see in the future, in addition to people committing violence against government buildings and Law Enforcement, which is a real problem, and people need to understand that its really happening, and having real consequences. Youre also seeing now different violent Extremist Groups, or individuals, committing violence against each other. You know . In other words, one group shows up to pick a fight with the other group, and who knows which is chicken and which is egg, but now youve got an additional level of combustible violence as opposed to maybe just one category of violent extremists hijacking a particular protest. Now you have both groups from opposite sides adding to the combustibility and the danger of the situation. And so we certainly have seen that in a number of cities, and thats just a, thats a force multiplier in a bad way that im concerned about Going Forward. Thank you so much. Mr. Chairman, may i ask one more question . Director miller may be acting director of National Intelligence contacted a socalled reorganization of the National Center for terrorism, National Counterterrorism center, without consulting congress, reportedly cutting resources and staff. What is the impact of the reorganization at the nctcs operation . Thank you, congresswoman. And we owe you a briefing on that and be happy to do that. Ive been there five weeks and thought the reorganization, we cleaned up some stuff. Other than a few, we had some seats that werent filled for a long time. Those kind of went away. So i have not seen a major, any major issue at all with our effectiveness or efficiency and happy to talk to you more about that. Great. So you do commit to working with congress to discuss the resources . Absolutely, yes, maam. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you very much. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from texas. Mr. Chairman, thank you for your generosity. I just want to put on the record one question and introduce elements into the record. Is the doj contemplated or has it opened investigation into domestic terrorism charges against blm . I would like that on the record for response by both witnesses today. Black lives matter. And if so, what is the status . New york times, im going to introduce this. New york times, federal officers deployed in portland didnt have proper training. Ill do unanimous consent at the end. Washington post, i. C. E. Flew detainees to virginia so planes could transport protesters. Abc news, protests from kenosha to portland. Tells a different story who was actually involved in that. Fbi names qanon a domestic terrorist threat. This is the federal bureau of investigation intelligence bulletin may 30th, 2019. Years after being debunked, interest in pizzagate is rising again. And finally, political divides, conspiracy theories and divergent news sources heading into the 2020 election. Pew research, 43 of republicans identify fraud as a major problem of voting by mail. I ask unanimous consent that these be introduced into the record. Npr. What is qanon tiptoeing into the trump world. Ask unanimous consent that these periodicals be submitted into the record. Without objection. So ordered. I also ask consent to enter into the record a statement for the record from brian levin, director of the study of hate and extremism at California State University san bernardino. Without objection, so ordered. I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony. And the members for their questions. The members of the committee may have additional questions for the witnesses and we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. Hearing no further business, the committee stands adjourned. [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] the statue of Young Eisenhower as a teenage boy sitting on a stone block looking in the direction of two of his greatest accomplishments. President of the United States and Supreme Commander of the allied expeditionary forces. Today at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan2, watch live coverage of the dedication ceremony for the new divide d. Eisenhower memorial in washington, d. C. Just off the National Mall and at the base of capitol hill. Speakers include memorial designer frank gehry, former secretary of state condoleezza rice, Memorial Commission chair senator pat roberts and president eisenhowers grandchildren, david and susan eisenhower. The dedication of the new dwight d. Eisenhower memorial. Live at 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan2, online at cspan. Org or listen live on the cspan radio app. Weeknights this month, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Tonight, a look at reconstruction amendments. Daniel crofts discusses lincoln and the politics of slavery. The other 13th amendment and the struggle to save the union. He he describes how in 1861, lincoln and the Republican Party supported a constitutional amendment quite different from the one that was eventually ratified in 1865. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern. American history tv. This week and every weekend on cspan3. Up next, state Department Officials testify about the firing of the agencys inspector general, steve linick and secretary of state mike pompeos role in the party. The House Foreign Affairs committee is chaired by new york congressman eliot engel. The committee on