Captioning performed by vitac its a spy story, its a humanitarian story, its a political and diplomatic story. Hoover was not very diplomatic by nature. The interesting thing is lou said later on that he was never the same after belgium. What he saw particularly the children. Remember, he was an orphan. All his life, there was something about hoover, he was not naturally gifted in social interaction. But with children, there was a different person. And belgium stamped him, for better or worse. The other remarkable thing again, building on what we said earlier, it was all voluntary. He appealed to the American People. He said, again, the American People, if you tell them what you need, they will give you their shirt off their backs. And there is a you go to west branch, the records are there. It is its a remarkable story there was one group, i think there was a kansas club of new york, who were going to build a clubhouse. And instead of building the clubhouse, they gave hoover the 500,000 that they had raised. And that was repeated over and over and over again. At this point, the United States wasnt in the war. But, again, that reinforced hoovers with belief that all his life, he was looking for a third way, between laissezfaire, capitalism, which he abhorred, and socialism, which he dreaded. And he came up with this terribly clunky, very hooveresque term of what was it . Voluntary association, the idea that without government coercion, without legislative edict, you could approach you could reach americans at the grassroots. Through churches, through the community chest, through the red cross, through a whole host of volunteer organizations. That was the backbone of america. That was the strength of america. That was what gave voice to american ideals. That was great. It worked. And Woodrow Wilson asked hoover to come home, and he had become a phenomenon, as you might imagine, and wilson entrusted him with something called the American Food administration. And he is its all voluntary. There are no ration cards in world war i. He uses propaganda. He uses public relations, this new embryonic science to reach people and touch people and motivate people to respond to his appeals. So there were meatless mondays and wheatless wednesdays. Not every campaign worked. There was a campaign by a pig, you know, a properly cared for pig is as sanitary as anything else. Well, the suburbs did not rise up and embrace that. Whale steak was adapted to some, though not many diets. Sugarless gum is a byproduct of the food administration. Again, the idea was, the American People would grow more, save more, and together they would basically feed their allies across the sea. The problem with that, theres two problems with that. Again, it confirmed hoover in his belief, which by now is a bedrock conviction, that whatever the problem, you know, you didnt need a government solution, you just needed to organize. Hoover also said the test of a democracy is that its organized from the ground up, not dictated from the top down. And again, people responded. It confirmed him in his faith. Economically, the legacy was, farmers grew more and more. They became addicted to foreign to surplus purchases overseas. And of course, in the 1920s, no more war, no more european markets. There was a slump. So there was an agricultural depression in america long before 1929. And that was one of the things that bedeviled president s through the period. Hoover and Woodrow Wilson became close, for what passes for close with either man, each in his own way was almost too rational, too cerebral for the political process. They were both in versailles. Wilson and hoover was part of the delegation. And later on, years later, hoover did something no America President had ever done. And in fact, the record stood until george w. Bush wrote about his dad. Hoover was the only american president to write a book about another american president. He wrote or deal of a president. Which is very sympathetic and a best seller. Hoover wrote two dozen books. That was the only one on the best seller list, but its a fascinating and what is in wilson that clearly appeals to hoover, its useful to know in terms of predicting many of the problems that hoover would experience in the white house. Who asked him to be commerce secretary and how long was he there and what impact did he have . The harding administration, Warren Harding, rather touchingly, aware of his own limitations, set out to recruit a cabinet of the best men. So Charles Evans hughes became secretary of state. And he asked hoover and basically gave hoover a choice. And hoover picked the commerce department, which in those days was perhaps the least Important Department in the cabinet. Well, of course, hoover being hoover, soon there were cartoons portraying hoover as secretary of commerce and undersecretary of everywhere else. And he did rub a lot of feathers, because he used well, he created something out of what was there. The federal radio commission. Radio is regulated because hoover started it. Forerunner of the fcc. And from the outset, he was certain that he did not want a bbctype arrangement. He did not want he wanted government to regulate the industry, but he didnt want government to run the industry. With, you know, enormous repercussions ever since. The first airfield in washington was hoover. Hoover field. Its over where the pentagon is now. He took he wrote zoning regulations that could be adapted all over the country. He promoted the construction of new housing, with standardized products. I mean, sounds kind of dull, but the fact is im trying to think. Hoover is an engineer. He thought like an engineer. He ate like an engineer. In the white house, it was famous, no state dinner could last more than 60 minutes. And he once eight five courses in 13 minutes. In the 1920s, he called his son into his office one day, his son, who was he was Herbert Clarke hoover. And he was Herbert Clarke hoover jr. And he said, you mind dropping your middle initial. And he said, no, but why. And he said, well, i have to sign my name hundreds of times a day if i dont have to. I mean, youve got to get yourself inside that kind of brain in order to understand both hoovers accomplishments and his lamtations. How long was he commerce secretary . He was commerce secretary for eight years almost eight years, under both at the tail end, after he had been nominated for president but 7 1 2 years under harding and coolidge. Theres a very poignant scene and you know, who knows what might have been. Harding had Great Respect for hoover. He never he said, you dont write the same gd english that i do. A well, thats im not sure that thats an insult. But in any event, but he had Great Respect for hoover and one thing i mentioned, both parties in 1920 flirted with the idea of nominating hoover. Wilson told his brotherinlaw that if level to him, he would choose his successor Herbert Hoover. And hoover talked to some democrats in 1920. But he decided, he was an old he was a bull moose republican. He was a Teddy Roosevelt progressive republican. In fact, his problem with the party throughout the 20s and throughout his presidency was from the right wing of the party, that never really trusted him and a lot of them were isolationist, too. And they held his cosmopolitan background against him. But anyway, he accompanied harding on the crosscountry voyage of understanding to alaska where harding felt ill and then they returned to san francisco. Its funny, Hoover Harding pressed Hoover Harding was clearly oppressed by something, and he couldnt get it off his chest. He couldnt sweep. So he played bridge endlessly, game after game of bridge. And its funny, hoover, who loved cards and was a mean canasta player in his later years, permanently lost his taste for bridge. Never played bridge again after harding died, because that trip had worn out his tolerance for the game, but also because of the tragic consequences of the trip. Harding asked him at one point, cryptically, if you knew of some great scandal within the administration, what would you do . And hoovers advice was to go public with it in all. Totally. He said, you would at least get credit for exposing the wrong doers. Harding didnt bring up the subject again. It was very clear to hoover that teapot dome and the other harding scandals had broken through and were you know, he said, later on, he said, people dont die of broken hearts. But people can get exhausted and be vulnerable to heart attacks because of profound disappointment. And clearly Warren Harding was disappointed. The completion of that story, harding died in august 1923. Coolidge becomes president. He retains hoover. They dont have the same chemistry that harding did. Coolidge was as suspicious of activity as hoover was unwilling to be inactive. And plus, i think coolidge sensed hoovers ambition. And yet, its interesting. When the mississippi overflowed to this day, by some measurements, its still the greatest Natural Disaster in American History. 1927. The flood covered thousands and thousands of square miles in the south. There was no government agency. There was no expectation that government would respond in any way. There was only Herbert Hoover. Who had this nickname, the master of emergencies. Well, this was a domestic emergency on the scale that he had dealt with overseas. So typically, he left washington, went out into the field, organized, you know, tent cities, Railroad Cars full of food, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And its interesting, because in 1928, he ran against a very impressive governor of new york, al smith, charismatic figure, in many ways seen as sort of the father of modern liberalism before franklin roosevelt, his successor. And its, you know, no one writes about 1928 without emphasizing the bigotry, the anticatholic bigotry that smith ran into, particularly in the south. And extraordinarily, its not Barry Goldwater who broke the solid south and its not dwight eisenhower, its Herbert Hoover who carried texas and several other southern states. The assumption is he only carried them as a measure of the anticatholic bias that existed in the deep south. And that clearly was a factor. But theres another factor that tends to get overlooked. And that is the gratitude that people in the deep south felt, because hoover was the face of relief at the time of the floods. The only person, really certainly the only Person Associated with government who had tried to address their needs. I mentioned the harding story concludes in 1930, they built harding a great big hollow drum in marion, ohio, but they couldnt get anyone to dedicate it. Coolidge wouldnt go and dedicate it. And hoover, seven years after harding died, hoover took a train to marion and dedicated it. Not only did he dedicate it, but he used his speech to single out people in the audience who had been crooks in the harding administration. People who had hastened the president s death. I mean, it was a very gutsy thing to do. How was he picked by the Republican Party to be the candidate and how big did he win against al smith . In many ways, he was a reluctant choice. I mean, remember, this was a guy who had, you know, fraternized with the enemy. Had been part of Woodrow Wilsons war cabinet. He talked to democrats about 1920. Its a wonderful letter from Young Franklin roosevelt to a friend who had urged hoovers virtues. And fdr, you know, genial fdr agreeing saying, he certainly is a wonder. No one would be better than Herbert Hoover as a democratic nominee. But hoover was not interested in being a sacrificial lamb that year. He had you know, he knew enough about politics to know that in 1920, it was a republican year. So anyway, he allowed his name to be entered in the california primary against hiram johnson, a senator who was a militant isolationist. And the result was a mixed bag. He got enough votes to really wound johnson and make sure that johnson would not be nominated, but not enough votes to impress the professionals. Remember, that was the famous smokefilled Room Convention where senatorial cabal, according to legend met, and by process of elimination came up with Warren Harding. Well, the fact is, hoover was never a regular republican. Again, he had been a supporer of the bull moose third party. He was that kind of you know, in the 1920s, the closest thing to a modern parallel would be colin powell, say, in the 1990s. Or early, you know, post2000. Someone who, frankly, should have made the party proud to have as a member, but whom the base would instinctively shy away from, as a standardbearer. How big did he win by . He won big. He won by 6. 5 million votes. 21. 5 million votes to 15 million votes. However, underneath those numbers, there were portents for the future. One reason why al smith is held in, i think, higher regard than most unsuccessful candidates is theres a real sense that smith started something. The best evidence of that is cities american cities. Calvin coolidge carried new york city. The last republican to do so. Al smith, of course, carried new york city. But he carried a lot of other cities, as well. So you had actually the makings of an early realignment. Had there not been the Great Depression. Had hoovers reputation, in effect, not been destroyed during his single term of office. What is fascinating to speculate is would that breakthrough in the south, would that have been a onetime event, attributable, in fact, to al smith as an opponent, or might it, in fact, have foreshadowed a twoparty system . How did the Great Depression come about . I cant tell you. I cant answer that. And i think there are a lot of economists who would if theyre honest, respond the same way. There are clearly a number of factors, some of which are easily identified. I mean, the dislocations of the war. We had this crazy, crazy, quote, system, where as part of the versailles agreement, basically, crushing reparations were demanded by the victors of defeated germany, which was really in no position, economically, although it had been largely unscathed by the war. Nevertheless, so you had this crazy system where germany is borrowing money from the United States. The United States came out of world war i, the new financial centerpiece of the world. New york supplanted london. The United States came out of world war i for the first time in its history a creditor nation. The rest of the world owed it. But you had this system where american banks were loaning money to germany, which then used the money to pay off the reformations to anyway. In addition, domestically, you had a rotten banking system. Totally unregulated. There were banks that were speculating on the stock market. I mean, there were banks that were doing things with deposited money that would shock us today. You had wall street speculation, rank, overheated, baseless lots of people buying stock on margin, which is to say, in effect, they were borrowing funds. If the stock market ever went down, particularly if it went down sharply, they would have to sell their stock to pay off what they had bought. The whole system was jerry built. Hoover believed it was the cumulative impact of the war. The dislocations brought about by the war. It was true, it was an international phenomenon. It was not limited to the United States. But i for the life of me cant give you a single reason. One very important contributing factor was that glut of consumer goods in the 1920s. I mean, ironically, hoover, who celebrated the abundance of modern industry, you know, cars were affordable, so were refrigerators. So were, you know, other appliances. Homes, all of those homes that he built, but lots of them were bought on credit. But more than that, radio. I mean, aviation. You had these new industries that were taking off. But the market became literally glutted. And one thing economists know is that wages failed to keep pace with prices. So you had this gap which grew. And at the same time, you had millions of people who were in effect, overcommitted. They were living, in effect, paycheck to paycheck. They were speculating in stocks, but eventually, the purchasing power being what it was and remember, the farmers were depressed and its hard you know, 40 40 of the American Workforce in 1920s was in agriculture. So when you talk about an agricultural depression, nearly half the country was depressed, long before wall street collapsed. One other thing that is so easy to overlook, when youre looking at the failure of the economy to respond to the various stimulative efforts that hoover and some to even later on, fdr, you have to remember how tiny a percentage of the american gdp went to the government in those days. When Herbert Hoover became president in 1929, the federal budget was less than 4 billion. And a substantial part of that was going to veterans. The reason he vetoed the veterans bonus, for which he paid a very high price, in fact, it was one of those classic cases, youve been around this town long enough, there are instances where congress will pass something, knowing the president will veto it, so they dont have the take the heat. And the veterans bonus, which had been promised to world war i veterans, but many years down the road. I think in the 1940s. Well, of course, there was this, understandable, ground swell, demanding an early payment of the bonus. A 3 billion a year budget could have been doubled, and it would have been throwing a pebble into a river. I mean, criticisms of hoover for not being sufficiently vigorous in exerting the potential of government to affect the economy overlooks how limited was the effect and the other thing was, like all of us in retrospect, we like other things we didnt see at the time. Keynesian economics, the idea that government in bust times should bust the budget. In other words, that it should do everything it could it can to boost purchasing power. Depressions were all about deflation. So if you can inflate the economy, presumably, thats the necessary medicine. But nobody knew about keynesian economics in the 1920s. And in fact, theres a famous incident in 35, 36, Something Like that, when fdr meets professor keynes. It was like the dialogue of the death. It was very clear that fdr was not intellectually a convert. He had been politically a convert to keynesian economics. But anyway, there were all sorts of factors. And this is not to excuse hoover. Hoovers great failing, and we can talk about, you know, some of the things you know, at the time, and this is easily overlooked, hoover exists in the shadow of fdr. Fdr did so much more. But in the context of the time, what hoover did was seen as so much more than his predecessors. Remember, we had had Great Depressions before. Martin van buren had been president. James monroe had been president. Grover cleveland in the 1890s had been president. The notion the notion that the government that the federal government, especially, would step in and try to correct the Economic Cycle was heresy. Depressions were acts of god. There were booms and there were busts. And there was nothing you could do about it. And thats the philosophy that, for example, andrew milne who was hoovers holdover secretary of the treasury maintained. He basically told the president just, you know, flush out the system. All of the bad, the crooked bankers, the speculators, all of that, you know, i mean, that was hobsian economics. And hoovers response was to get himself a new secretary of the treasury. He sent him to the court of st. James. But the other thing is, we tend to think that the stock market collapsed in october 1929 and the next day there were bread lines. And in fact, this was a story that took time to evolve. Early in 1930, the new york times, among other media outlets, praised hoover for doing more than any president before under the circumstances. Hoover did not believe in a boom and bust. In fact, to go back to Warren Hardings administration, as secretary of commerce, there was a severe recession right after world war i, and it was hoover who was, in effect, delegated with the responsibility. And what he did was, among other things, greatly increased public work spending. Which, again is, in many ways, a foreshadow of what we associate with the new deal. Well, likewise, hoover immediately, again, voluntary association, hoover called to the white house for jawboning dozens of the nations leading business executives. He got them to agree to undertake an increase in their commitments. And wages were talk to henry ford, who initially agreed to increase worker wages. He contacted all the governors of the states, the 48 states, and appealed to them to increase, step up, accelerate public works programs. He, himself, went to congress and asked for 150 million, which was more than any president before him. In fact, more than most president s combined. And that was just the first installment. So the idea that he did nothing is pretty thoroughly disabused. So why is he 70, 80 years later pilloried . Why is he indelibly, personally associated with the Great Depression . And there are a number of reasons for that. One, the democrats brilliantly hired a man name charlie michaelson, who worked for, i think, the baltimore sun. And charlie michaelson, you might say, invented negative politics in the way that you and i understand it. Charlie michaelsons sole job, day in and day out, was to blacken the reputation of the president , to drive home, in voters minds, the fact this man was heartless. This man was responsible for the Great Depression, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Hoover unwittingly contributed to that by being hoovers great failure, you might say, a failure of imagination. He should not signed the tariff in 1930 which, in effect, at the worst possible time built walls around the American Economy and encouraged other countries to do the same. That was a real error of judgment. But hoovers great failing was temperamental. He tried to make a virtue out of it. He said, you cant make a Teddy Roosevelt out of me. Well, go back to that 10yearold boy who didnt know that he could do something for pleasure without offending god. I always thought theres a direct connection between that and the adult hoover, who was in many ways, emotionally stunted. Hes the most improbable politician. His story is i suppose every president is unique in his way. One of the lessons, i think, that hoovers story teaches us is, be aware of successful businessmen, because the qualities that drive business success, the ability to work with a board of directors, the knowledge that your order will be carried out, thats not the same as working with congress. Hoover had poor relations with congress, which was nominally republican, the first half of his term, and then marginally democratic a second half. He didnt have the political gift. He knew he didnt have the political gift, but thats the other lesson of the hoover presidency. Hoover is one of those very rare president s, William Howard taft comes to mind. Sort of quasijames madison comes to mind. People who are, again, almost too rational, too cerebral. Who dont have, in their dna, whatever that political gene is that enables a lyndon johnson, in the most extreme example, to thrive. What were the circumstances in 1932 . Did he run again, and what happened . He ran again. Was nominated by a listless republican convention. One thing we havent mentioned, of course, is prohibition. Another issue that complicated life, particularly for the republicans, because by and large they had a lot of rural supporters, the Republican Party was split on the issue of prohibition. Hoover, again, a cosmopolitan figure who didnt mind taking a drink, but who was sworn, unlike Warren Harding, to enforce the law. And in 1932, he was on the unpopular side of the issue. I think by 1932, there were a lot of people, including regional supporters of prohibition, that concluded that this experiment had not worked. And that in many ways, it had backfired. So you had he was carrying that dead weight. He had the depression. I mean, he had his own inability to inspire. You think of fdr and radio. Well, hoover was on radio. The difference is hoover was once asked if he got excited, if he found it exciting, speaking on the radio. And he said it was as exciting as talking to a doorknob. Again, thats the literal, thats the engineer, you know . So anyway, he ran again. The bonus army came to town, and measures are still being debated, still the subject of controversy. He dispatched douglas mcarthur, of all people, not to cross the bridge over into anacostia and set fire. To the veterans camp. As mcarthur took it on himself to do. Hoover sent explicit orders to mcarthur, and they were disobeyed. It was not the last time Douglas Mcauthur was to disobey executive authority. How big did fdr win . He swept the country. Hoover had 59 electoral votes. This man, i dont think modestly jimmy carter between 76 and 80, but i dont think anyone has ever gone from such an overwhelming mandate when he was elected to the powerful consensus that he should leave office. Roosevelt carried all but six states. And, with it, congress. And then, of course, in some ways, what put the seal on hoovers reputation as a failed president was the next three months. The Hoover Roosevelt idea was so bad that the constitution was amended. President s used to be sworn in on march 4th. It was decided that that was too long. That was too long because it was too long in 19321933. The two men had virtually no communication. I think its safe to say hoover believed that fdr was deliberately avoiding having any responsibility in the hopes that if things did go to hell, that he would then receive the credit, and in many ways thats exactly what happened. The irony is, the banks were crashing at the end. Just the roof was falling in. And hoover could have closed the banks. It was that some would say stubbornness, some would say principle. I would say a lack of political finesse. But he insisted that fda had to agree with him, that it had to be a joint undertaking. And heres the difference. Fdr, who is not only a born politician, but a natural pragmatist. Remember, its fdr who says try something, if it doesnt work, try something else. That is exactly what the person people wanted to hear after four years in which it was felt that nothing had been tried. In fact, a lot was tried, but it came very soon to be overshadowed by the scale, the scope of what fdr undertook. What were the circumstances in your life in 1984 when this book was published . Gosh, i was living in d. C. I had published a big biography of thomas dewey that i had spent a year researching. Came back to d. C. , i was writing on a consultant basis for bob dole, for whom i had worked earlier, and im very proud to say ive been associated with him over the years. I had done this book on tom dewey, who in some ways is the ultimate overlooked historical figure. The little man on the wedding cake. Someone stereo typed and written off, who turned out to have a vastly more interesting and consequential life. In many ways hoover was a logical sequel. I didnt think about it at that time. I had no political agenda. I had visited west branch at an adolescent and been really moved by the site, and its still moving. Youre talking about west branch, iowa . Where hoover was born and where hes buried. And the 450 yards separate the two. The birthplace is a little 14 by 20 foot, the size of the average american living room today, a little white wash cottage. And then 450 yards away on a hillside called the overlook, the very simple graves of mr. President and mrs. Hoover. He made one wish known, and that was that nothing ever been planted or built that would interfere with the view. He wanted people to stand at his grave and look off at the little house where he was born and draw the conclusion that he had drawn, the fact that the circumstances of your birth in no way limited the potential of your life. Its 1984 when you wrote this book or when it was published. When did you run the Hoover Library museum and why . Out of this book i had no idea at the time that i was planting a seed of what would be a 17year career at five president ial libraries. I was called by john faucet, who was from west branch, iowa, and was at the National Archives running the president ial library system, which was a good bit smaller in those days. And he asked me out of the blue ive never been more surprised in my life would you have any interest in being the director of the Hoover Library. And i thought immediately what a wonderful job. Now, people around me, at that point also i was working at pete wilsons office, senator from california, writing speeches. And people thought why on earth would you want to go live in west branch, iowa, population 1,800, which tells you more about them than it did about west branch. In any event, i left washington and went out and had a whale of a time. I spent six plus years learning my trade in west branch, making some friends for life. And so i did it reverse. I wrote the book, and then became director of the library. And that was the first of several. What would you say was the most significant and we only have a minute and a half the most significant thing that hoover did that is still in this country to this day . Well, you could look physically at hoover dam. It was no accident his name was put on it. Because he, as secretary of commerce, negotiated the compact with seven states, Rocky Mountain states, over the water of the Colorado River that they were all fighting over, water being dear in the west. And the result was hoover dam. Thats the most obvious physical legacy. Much more important, i would argue, however, is the example of a businessman who walked away from his fortune. He said literally he let the fortune go to hell, first to feed belgium, and then to organize american relief, and ultimately to go on to save more lives than hitler, stalin and mao together could eliminate. Not a bad epitaph. Thank you Richard Norton smith for helping us with our series on president s. The name of the book, and it is available on amazon and other places as a used book. This one, by the way, comes from a library in milford, michigan, the one that i have. The name of the book is an uncommon man the triumph of Herbert Hoover. We thank you very much. Thank you. For free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q a. Org. Q a programs are also available as cspan podcasts. Weeknights this month on American History tv, its the contenders the series that looks at 14 president ial candidates who lost the election but had a lasting effect on u. S. Politics. Tonight we feature 1940 republican nominee wendell willkie. After losing he became representative to britain, middle east, soviet union and china. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern and enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3. Youre watching American History tv. Every weekend on cspan3, explore our nations past. Cspan3 created by americas Cable Television company as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provid provider. Now on American History tv, a look at challenges faced by catholic politicians. Well hear from a professor from the university of notre dame about how al smith and john kennedy