Captioning performed by vitac captioning performed by vitac. So i think for the native americans it was a feeling that first of all theyve got some practical skills that are useful, and second that it is an affirmation that that is pan american war. Salvatore in annapolis, maryland. Welcome. Caller hello. My dad fought in world war ii in the pacific. He had Four Brothers who also fought in world war ii. Couple in the pacific, couple in europe, and another uncle who fought in the pacific in the navy. Couple of questions, my dad was a Second Generation italian american. It appears that the prejudice against italian americans was much less than against japanese americans and im wondering if that was true and im wondering why. And the second question, dropping of the atomic bomb probably is the reason im talking to you today. And wondering how that impact had on the outcome of the war and the ability of more american soldiers to survive. Okay, thank you. Well, thanks for the call and the questions, salvatore. Yes, i think it is fair to say that the prejudice is against italian americans were considerably less than against japanese americans. The italians of course were our adversary, at least until 1943 when they switched sides and became our ally. But the italians had not launched the kind of attack that had occurred at pearl harbor the japanese struck in december of 1941. I think there is also a racial component to it, frankly. I think that there was a it was easier to dislike asians and the japanese specifically. So of course they were treated dreadfully. And were just talking about native americans in the war and there were japanese americans who fought valiantly in italy and france during world war ii they were exceptionally capable, ferocious fighters, and they had something to prove, because at home there were tens of thousands interned in camps and treated not only as second class citizens but as noncitizens. With respect to the atomic bombs, yes, i think that the fact that the two atomic bombs dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki in early august 1945 brought an end to the war in the pacific probably saved hundreds of thousands of american lives. When ve day occurs on may 8th, 1945, one of the reasons that the jubilation was not more frenetic than it was is that the battle for okinawa is occurring precisely then. It is a cave by cave blood letting, and this foreshadowed what the toll is going to be in attacking the japanese home islands directly. There were estimates that american casualties could rise as much as to 1 million if that were required. And of course the atomic bombs in one ve day occurs in may of 1945, no one knows about the atomic bombs except a small group of physicists and others in new mexico. But no one knows whether even they are not certain whether it is going to work. So those bombs, horrible as they were and in my estimation brings the war to an absolute truncated end, appropriately it saves Many American lives, it saves even more japanese lives. The russians were ready to come in, the war was going to expand in the pacific because the russians had agreed to be part of it. So the atomic bombs saved a lot of heartache. Were talking about the end of world war ii in the european theater, the 75th anniversary of ve day. Joining us is world war ii veteran on our world war ii veterans line is pete from oklahoma. Caller hello. Good morning. Youre on the air. Caller why, thank you. Yes, i was over there on may the 6th, 1945 and we got on the ship on may 15th heading for the pacific. And we stopped by the United States, was training and flying b24s, was going to train on b29s for a couple of weeks and go to the pacific. And during that period of time is when they dropped the bomb that ended the war in the pacific. But we bombed all of europe from b24 base in mandera, italy. Great to have you with us this morning. Thanks for your story. And rick atkinson, how quickly was the military able to pivot to focus on the Pacific Theater . Well, the commanders in europe, and of course theyre civilian masters back in washington had been thinking about how to take a good portion of that force and move it to the pacific and how you would do that and who would go. Was it fair for those who had been fighting from north africa beginning in 1942 and then in italy in 43 and 44 and then in western europe for them to have to go fight in the pacific. So there were plans that had been put together. There were, in fact, units that were being shifted as he just said. In may of 1945, they were getting ready to retrain for the assault on the japanese homeland. The b29 he mentioned was the newest of the four engine long range bombers that had been doing extraordinary work devastating japan. B29s were used to drop the two atomic bombs. So there was a belief that you were going to have take a good portion of the european force, leaving some behind as an army of occupation, but the majority of it was going to end up in the pacific in one form or another. And in your weekend piece in the wall street journal, there is a photo of eisenhower flashing the v for victory pens at the signing ceremony. One of your early interviews in 2002 on the first book army at dawn, you said that in a different photograph of ike that there is a photograph reflected a certain buoyancy of spirit that i think served him well. You write in your final book, the guns at last light, that there his fellow commander, some of the other allied commanders were not confident that ike was necessarily the commander type. Well, there were frictions, there is no doubt about it and the british in particular had doubts about eisenhower. Not all of them. Some of them were revered him. He had difficulties really through the entire final year of the war with field Marshal Bernard montgomery, field marshall, a very difficult character it must be said. So there were those who had doubts about eisenhower. There were those who had doubts about him when he became the theater commander in the mediterranean in late 1942. He never heard a shot fired in anger. He and his west point class both missed world war i, they had not been deployed. And so there was a feel that who was this guy and why is he the one to be the supreme commander. My feeling is i lived with Dwight Eisenhower metaphorically for 15 years. And my admiration for him grew every year during that span. He was an extraordinarily capable war leader. He was an extremely capable political general in that his primary job was to hold together this fractious allied coalition. Eventually there are more than 50 countries in what Franklin Roosevelt called the United Nations fighting with the United States. And eisenhower was brilliant about Holding Together that centrifugal force trying to pull apart every wartime coalition. So eisenhowers laurels at the end of the war i think are fairly earned. He showed himself to be a capable allied commander and that big smile of his which one of his subordinates said was worth at least an army corps in morale terms was fairly earned when we goat to may 8th, 1945. Lets hear from tom next, saint petersburg, florida. Tom, youre on the air. Caller hello. My name is tom willis. The reason im calling is i often wondered who engineered the end of the war. Was it admiral dornus . Secondly, did he honestly believe throughout his entire career that his losses in the atlantic were not caused by the amemorialic machine . And thirdly, what happened to him at the end of the war . Well that is a lot of questions. Admiral dornus was the commander of the german navy at the end of the war. There wasnt much of a german navy left to command by that point. The german submarine force had been almost completely destroyed by may of 1945. In terms of who engineered the end of war, well, there were conversations among those who were still surviving in berlin, he was actually to the north to the northwest of berlin, about how to go about contacting the allies and how to go about bringing this catastrophe to a close. Hitler having killed himself on april 30th had essentially tried to pull the temple down around him as he perished, but not everyone was willing to take that route. Not everyone was suicidal. So there had been a basically an agreement that they would send a delegation to allied headquarters, first to montgomery and then they end up as i mentioned at eisenhowers forward headquarters. Its all a bit catch us if you can. They are making it up as they go along. They are very aware that every day that passes there are more germans who fall under soviet control. And this theyre determined to avoid. Theyre trying to stall as long as they can to allow germans to flee westward. They are fleeing westward by hundreds of thousands, eventually by millions, in order to avoid being under soviet control. So when the final decision is made that okay were going to give up and secede to the allied demands for Unconditional Surrender at that point it is a fait accompli. Steve calling from providence, rhode island. Hi there. Caller yes, hi. Good morning. I would like to make a comment. This gentleman knows and i know that the war was decided on the Eastern Front. The western front was like a little skirmish compared to the Eastern Front and if the germans prevailed on the Eastern Front, there wouldnt have been any western front. There would have been a settlement. But the most important issue i want to state is the russian crime when they entered berlin and over 2 million german women were raped by those communist animals. Im a german american, and my father is a german american who served in the italian campaign. Steve steve well get a response from rick atkinson. Thanks for the call, steve. Yeah, there were crimes of the first order committed by the soviets not only in berlin but through all of Eastern Europe as they overran poland and then pushed into the eastern precincts of what was then the german empire. And the reason the soviets were doing that, besides fatal lack of discipline, was a feeling that the depravity that the germans had visited on the soviet Union Beginning with the invasion in 1941 and extending right on through the end of the german advance was to be repaid in kind. So more spirals out of control in ways that no one could see at the beginning, and this is a food example of it. The atrocities that the germans committed are repaid, probably with interest, by russians. I agree with you, the russians certainly carried the weight of the war for all of the allies. It is estimated that soviet soldiers killed nine german soldiers for every one who was killed by british and american troops combined. And i mentioned 26 million soviets dead, they did most of the dying, they did most of the killing. And it was absolutely vital to have them remain as part of the alliance. It is the 75th anniversary of ve day, victory in europe day. Here on American History tv and washington journal, were joined by rick atkinson, the author of the liberation trilogy, the guns at last light, the three book series on the war in the european theater. More of your calls and comments coming up momentarily. We are joined next, though, by senator pat roberts of kansas who is chair of the eisenhower memorial commission. The senator from kansas. Senator we saw you yesterday on the floor with your i like ike button on the senate floor. You were a youngster when ve day happened. Tell us your memories of that. I was nine there. The button says i still like ike. They handed them out at the congressional lunch as of yesterday. They were a hot item. But i think most of my memories came when i was about 16 and got to go to the Republican Convention in 1952 where eisenhower won on the first ballot as opposed to taft and the inaugural. Those are the only times i personally met the man. Obviously, at 9 i was back in kansas. I remember that day, though, because i was swinging on the front porch, and my mom came in with tears in her eyes and she said, we have defeated hitler. Ike defeated hitler. And i asked her, does that mean that dad could come home . Not at that particular time, he was in the pacific. He was a marine and on okinawa and iwo jima and all of that effort. Well were talking at any rate, the one thing i remember about ike, you knew he came into the room even though your back was too him. He had that presence, that charisma and a very ready face, a wonderful smile and everybody met that liked ike and that stuck. Were talking about general eisenhowers role in the victory in europe. Talking to you, though, about the eisenhower memorial. General eisenhower led the allies to victory in europe. He served two terms as president. Why has it taken so long for a memorial to be created in washington for president eisenhower . It is amazing how many groups that you have to go through at the National Capital commission and the fine arts council, et cetera, et cetera. Secondly, you have to raise the money for it, and then you have to have federal funds. You have to have all members of the family on board. There were changes, i was the second chairman way back but danny inouye, the medal of honor winner, the senator from hawaii, and then senator ted stevens, two world war ii vets pushed very hard on this. If you take a look at most memorials, not many are built on a very rapid basis. It takes step by step. But the process, basically, is just not simple. You have site selection, to the design approvals, the construction. It is a monumental undertaking. Pardon that terrible pun. We are thrilled now, finally, to see the hard work come to fruition. It is done. And all we have to do now is wait hopefully until september when social distancing will not be that much of a problem, we hope. If it still is, well have the dedication accordingly. It was supposed to be today on the 75th anniversary of ve day. What quick comments were you going to make . What were you going to say in that dedication . Well i think i had four minutes. The president had accepted the invitation to speak. We had a flyover. Basically the eisenhower family would have spoken. We have a number of world war ii veterans, including bob dole, who helped raising money on the private side of it. And i just think this memorial honors not only a very extraordinary man and favorite son of kansas but served as a symbol for all generations of the promise of america and what our values made possible here and around the world. I think he really was the president that basically was president when we entered on the world war stage and then more especially when he was the supreme allied commander in europe. Well senator pat roberts from kansas, we look forward to the dedication when that does happen. Thank you so much for joining us this morning on the 75th anniversary. You bet. I hope you can be there. And back to our guests. Rick atkinson, the author of the liberation trilogy taking your calls on comments on this 75th anniversary. James is in sturgis, south dakota. Go ahead. This is Master Sergeant keating, retired air force. I was an iraqi war veteran. And post 9 11, saudi arabia, ground zero. Served a year in korea. And i did a fundraiser with my dad, he was a world war ii veteran. Graduated in may, 1945. And he delivered coffins, and there was a lot of them. And he went to florida, portland, oregon, may of 45 and he graduated. And anyway, just calling to thank all of the veterans and share a little history. Thanks, james. And rick atkinson, your dad served in world war ii, and you yourself an army brat, your dad a career military veteran. Tell us what that experience, what was the experience in particular like, ve day when that would come up every year with your dad . My dad had was from new jersey. He enlisted in the army right after he turned 18 and in late 1942. He went to ocs, officer candidate school and became a Second Lieutenant and got to europe right after the war ended. He was in the constabulation an occupation force in bulgaria with Extraordinary Police powers because in germany was in ruins obviously and anarchy was a big threat, not only in bavaria but everywhere else. And he came home in 1946 and went to penn state and then went back into the army. He liked it well enough to make it a career and served for 30 years. He died about 18 months ago at the age of 94. Ve day was not anything particular in his world view. He marked veterans day, memorial day, fourth of july, these were important holidays for him as they are for many of us. Ve day in and of itself, he was worried as one of our earlier callers was about whether we could end up in the pacific, i think. Fortunately for me and for him that wasnt necessary. I was born in munich because my father as a lieutenant having gone back in the army went back to europe and was part of the army of occupation in salisbury, where the American Army hospital happened to be in munich and at that point austria was still in the occupation force until 1955 when the russians and americans both left austria. So the residual effects of the war have persisted in many ways, and even ten years after the war we still had Occupation Forces in austria. And of course to this day, we have American Forces in germany. They arent Occupation Forces because they are allies now. But the consequences of the war in terms of the military topography were profound. It affected me personally and certainly my father. Next up is robert calling from portsmouth, virginia. Caller good morning, gentlemen. I just got a comment. My grandfather served in both theaters. He was in the navy during the europe conflict and when they decided they were going to call it quits, ve day, he transferred over to the United States marine corp so he could go to the what do you call it the Pacific Theater, and he actually seen action and thank god he come home to us. And he served in two different branches of the service and two theaters of war. Okay, robert. Any specific question or any other comment in. Caller well, i have a question for him. Is it true that during the second world war, they had a secret group of nazis to make a fourth reich after the war . Im sorry, i didnt hear that. A fourth reich. A fourth reich. Well, there were certainly good nazis who got away. Who escaped either the hangman or prison for some sort of accounting. Some of them famously went to south america. And there were a few who had ambitions of somehow either reconstituting the german reich or keeping alive the spirit of the reich and the spirit of adolf hitler. This is a fringe group. They are not really to be taken seriously. I think a greater concern is not those who a great concern is not those who escape justice and those who may have had ambitions to pull together the tattered remnants of the german empire back into and reconstituting it in some fashion. But those in germany and elsewhere in europe, it is not just germans by my means who feel that the spirit of the third reich somehow should be honored and should you cannot be legally a nazi in germany. The germans have been extraordinarily capable in the past 75 years, first, of educating all germans, particularly younger germans about what had happened and who was responsible for it, but it is difficult to snuff out this virus of fascism. And we see it cropping up in hungary, we see it in other places in Eastern Europe. We see little sparks of it in portions of germany and it is very concerning. And we see it wherever there are populous who want to take the route of fascism or neo fascism or proto fascism and try to feather their nest politically with it. That is of a greater concern than any residual nazis from 1945. You write there your last book about the discovery of vast troves of german bouillon of gold, of art treasures, of manuscripts in caves and mines across germany in the waning days of the war. How did they prevent looting of that and also prevent extra violence by troops, revenge violence against germans who may have been prisoners in pursuit of german troops. Yeah, the germans were great thieves. Nazis had looted art works and treasures of all sorts both from individuals and from galleries and museums all across occupied europe. And they tried to discover that stuff and get it back to the original owners is a process that goes on to this day, frankly. Revenge killing was a great concern. And in fact we saw that at the concentration camp not far from munich when american soldiers liberated the camp and saw tens of thousands in emaciated conditions and thousands who had died and corpses strewn around the outskirts of the camp, there were soldiers, american soldiers, who lost control. The discipline broke down and there are an estimated several dozen german camp guards, these are ss guards who were murdered either by the americans and in one case they put them up against a wall and mowed them down with a machine gun or were murdered by inmates who got into a frenzy until order was restored. So there was concern about this for the most part discipline obtained, the number of revenge killings by american troops in western allied troops is very small. Discipline was really quite admirable. Less so, i think its fair to say, among soviet troops coming from the east, but that was part of the price and the pain of victory. Lets go back to calls and hear from lawrence, st. Paul, minnesota. What a great opportunity, thanks, ill be real quick. Two comments, i admired eisenhower for pulling in citizens for the towns near the concentration camps to witness what the nazi regime did but that is not my question. My question is studying world war ii is so impactful for understanding where we are today from a political military and social perspective, you could comment on that particularly as it relates to the politics in making both the atomic and Hydrogen Bombs post world war, thanks for the opportunity. Look forward to hearing your comments. Thanks for the call, lawrence. Yeah, the consequences of world war ii are extraordinary, socially, politically, militarily. Socially in this country our views on gender and racial equality are very much shaped by the experiences in world war ii. There were hundreds of thousands of black americans who served in the war. Mostly initially in all black units. It was a segregated military. And many of them had what they call the double v campaign. Victory against fascist opponents overseas and victory against racism at home. And the dignity, the empowerment, the sense of service, the sense of cohesion that that experience brought to black america was really a propulsion system for after the war and the same for gender equality. The Civil Rights Movement after the war. Same for gender equality. We had 19 million american women working outside of the home during world war ii. Many of them went back to being homemakers after the war but you dont keep that genie back in the bottle for long. You dont keep that jeanne back in the bottle for long. It showed that women had an opportunity, women had a potential opportunity to do whatever men could do. That they could do things that men could do as well, if not better. Whether it was a riveting together a ship or working in a science lab, teaching in college, whatever. So these very large social imprints that had come out of the war are with us to this day. It shaped the culture and the society, the economy in extraordinarily profound ways that we still see 75 years later. And well point ow viewers to ricks atkinsons modern day reflection on ve day in the wall street journal in a piece headlines ve day forged a world still worth defending and a photograph of a soldier wounded in belgium standing near Grand Central station on may 7th, 1945. Holly springs North Carolina is next and linda, good morning. Caller yes. Thank you for taking my call. I have great aunts and uncles from northern italy who had told us stories about resistance by many of the italians and how elated they were on liberation day. Our current family and friends remind us that this week, april 25th, was their liberation day and they celebrated and how sad they are that many of their elder survivors have passed away due to the covid19, and they feel like theyre in battle again. My question is what were the italian terms of liberation and were there still germans in italy fighting at that time . Yes, there were germans in italy until may of 1945. The italians, you may know from family history, in 1943, who decided after making an alliance with the germans, the pact of steel that mussolini and hitler had put together, in 19434, there were secret Service Negotiations between the americans and british and italians. In 1943 the italians basically switched sides. Now, not all of them switched sides. There was a state that prevailed in northern italy supported by the germans. The fighting which begun was going to continue to the end of the war, last toted th this day years ago. The italians surrendered after the germans had agreed to surrender. It was the germans occupying italy, fighting in italy, propping up that that rump state, throwing in the towel. That occurs until may 2nd, 1945. The war is awful in italy also. Next from illinois, youre on. Caller good morning. I hope the man from mexico is listening. We had a code talker on a local Radio Station being interviewed. That fella sang the marine corps hymn in navajo. Before the hair on the back of my neck stood up, i was standing up at attention. My dad was a marine in iwo jima, i was a marine in vietnam. The question i have is if Franklin Roosevelt still lived in august, would eleanor have let him use the bombs . Fideles for semper and for america. Thanks for that. Eleanor roosevelt was not directing war policy either before or after Franklin Roosevelts death in april. Roosevelt was keenly interested in the manhattan project, which was the construction of the atomic bomb. He saw it as a way to shorten the war. He saw it as a way to save lives both american and American Allies and to save japanese lives. He was less concerned about that. Had Franklin Roosevelt lived beyond april 12th, 1945, i have no doubt he would have made the same decision harry truman did, which was to go ahead and use this terrible weapon in hopes of bringing the war, the total war to a complete and final end, which happens, of course wallet japanese surrender in tokyo on september 2nd, 1945, thats vj day. We touched on it in the program but bob in missouri asked this. Who were the germans signing for the country. I guess hes referring to ve day, the allied signing, not the russian signing. It was the general, operations chief for german military. Yodel had been designated and given the authority by the residual german government. Yodel had an appointment after that signing and that was with the hangman. He was executed for war crimes subsequently after the nuremberg trials. You probably get asked this question a lot. Your liberation trilogies about the war in the theater. Youre working now on another trilogy about the revolution with your first book coming out on that last year. Have you ever considered a book about the Pacific Theater in world war ii . You know, i thought about it, bill, a lot. It was the obvious thing to pivot to the pacific and try to do for that theater what i had done for the mediterranean and western europe and i decided not to. This was 2013 when the final volume of the trilogy guns of last light came out. I decided not to in part, because really im a europeanist. I lived in europe, born in europe. And more important just out of fascination, even fixation with that earlier war, the war of independence, the war that gave us the republic we have to this day. So im working on volume 2 of the revolution trilogy. Its going to take me a while. I dont anticipate being around to take up the pacific. To jesus in illinois. Good morning. Caller yes, good morning. Yes. I have a question to ask. I wonder what he thinks about the mexican americans and latino contributions in the american wars. More than 500 mexican americans were in the war. Thanks for the question, jesus. As with the other ethnic contributions that we talked about earlier, native americans, blacks, and others, the hispanic contributi contribution, take the Texas National guard, 346th Infantry Division after federalized or the 45th division, which had been oklahoma and new Mexico National guard, go down the roster of names of the soldiers in those units and you see lots of hernandezes and gonzalez, many hispanic names, mexican and otherwise. Their contribution is significant. Their role in making those units into fine units, 35th and 46th both fought in italy, in some of the worst fighting in italy. So you know, hispanic americans have every reason to be proud of their role and their contribution to that 16. 1 million membership and women force that made the United States military in world war ii. Theres a photograph in bbc today about at this point princess elizabeth, Queen Elizabeth to lead 75th anniversary events, speaking to the nation on television there as an army jeep driver, broadly what was the role of the royal family back then in the war . Well, there are role was to keep the british in the fight and keep them focused on ambitions of the entire british nation, this was basically to prevail and withstand pressures from hitler and his fascist thu thugs. When ve day occurred there were huge crowds in Trafalgar Square in london and crowds that gathered outside buckingham palace. First of all, they sang patriotic songs, hope and glory, people weeping. They chanted, we want the king, we want the king. The king came out and appeared on the ballast. He brought with him the queen and the two princesses. Queen elizabeth was still a young girl. Now 75 years later has been queen for a long time. Theres no one better equipped to speak on behalf of britain and what britain accomplished during the war than Queen Elizabeth. Well, rick atkinson, we appreciate you joining us on the 75th anniversary of ve day. We always appreciate your appearances on book tv as well. Good luck on the continuation of your series on the american revolution. Bill, thanks so much for having me this morning and for remembering the day. Watch American History tv in primetime on veterans day starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Military historian Patrick Odonnell on his book the unknowns, the untold story of americas unknown soldier and world war i undecorated heroes who brought him home. At 9 00 p. M. Eastern 1997 film africanamericans in world war ii, a legacy of patriotism and valor. At 11 20 eastern, the 1945 film, the army nurse. Watch American History tv, veterans day tonight starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan3. Every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv on cspan3, go inside a Different College classroom and hear about topics ranging from the american revolution, civil rights and u. S. President s to 9 11. Thanks for your patience and for logging into class. With most College Campuses closed due to coronavirus watch professors transfer to virtual setting to engage with their students. Gorbachev did most of the work to change the soviet union but reagan met him halfway, reagan encouraged him, reagan supported him. Freedom of the press, which well get to later, i should mention madison called it freedom of the use of the press. It is, indeed, freedom to print things and publish things not for what we refer to institutionally as the press. Lectures in history on American History tv on cspan3. Every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Lectures in history is also available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. This last august 6th was the 76th bombing of hiroshima. The United States dropped a second atomic bomb on nag satisfying three days later. August 15th, 1945, japan announced its Unconditional Surrender. Up next, we look back at president trumans decision to use atomic bombs against japan