And im also helping out here with the lnp, kirby Junior Center for constitutional studies and citizenship, a topic which we will be talking about at length today in the book featured today, which Say Something about in a moment. Tim added, a detail of a teacher who is enthusiast mystically excited about having art. The odyssey from the teaching in her high school and i laughed because in the graduate School Government where we teach people on capitol hill who are involved in legislation in the executive branch this weekend literally kicked off a one credit on the odyssey and what you can learn about it for civilized so i sort of had an out loud cackle as im prepping for this talk and my i id also like to thank and welcome cspan listeners watchers and film for filming tonight. Cspan is going to be wisely i think televising this timely book this important book now tim goeglein is Vice President of external and Government Relations for focus the family. He has served as a specialist assistant to president George W Bush and as Deputy Director of the white office of public liaison. Tim has served as a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation and as a Communications Director for senator dan coats of indiana and gary bauer at the for working families. Tim, his wife jenny, have two sons and in addition tim has authored a number of books, American Restoration and now his latest toward more Perfect Union the moral and cultural case for teaching the Great American story a more Perfect Union. That word hangs on the modern ear slightly strangely. How can something be perfect then be more perfect . But that phrase when it was adopted in the preamble of the constitution by our founding fathers, was understood slightly differently. It comes from the old latin roots, perfecto gus from pere factum. That is to say, through our good deeds, write something very different. The understanding of something done and complete that we can now ignore and have run on autopilot for something weve learned has been bad thing to do. And you, tim, is going to be basically teaching us something tonight how we might perfect our union once again. And by the way, before tim takes podium, i just i have to say, tim is a great lover of god and country and and culture. His friends. Right. And i count myself among his friends, and he is also one of the most optimistic and cheerful people i have ever met. And i point out, because then optimus awesome comes through in this book in a very beautiful precisely as he handles some of the grimmest mistakes in american miseducation over the last 70 years and. I think we all know here that optimism is something in high demand and, in very short supply right now in the states. And so without ado, tim goeglein. Matt, thank you so much and may i say it right at the top with introduction like that, i should say thank you and good night. Im genuinely humbled. Those very kind comments and im especially humbled to be at Hillsdale College because although i did not know or intend that i enjoy such a esteemed invitation, hillsdale plays a significant inter role in this book and. I hope everybody here and 50,000 of your best friends will buy and read the book. And by the way, im pleased that you began with the title from our great preamble, the constitution. I, i know where im standing and what im what i and standing in front of. And it seems to all make sense. And so it means a lot to me by way, i should Say Something that i think its past of all that people here, people who are watching, listening, people who actually who have a a Strong Association with hillsdale or may not know, but Frederick Douglass plays a starring role in part of of my newest book. And im very pleased to to say for those who dont know that that the great man visited and spoke at Hillsdale College two or three times, i believe and there is a what consider to be a priceless portrait that was taken by a hillsdale michigan photographer of frederick. Ive seen the original photo which i consider to be a bit of a treasure and i say in the book and ill say this evening that i believe that Frederick Douglass deserves deserves to by reputation and by greatness to be considered in the in the in the pantheon of our of our of our founding generation. What he did and achieved is stunning. And im pleased hes honored in the new capital visitor center. Im pleased that he is honored in this portrait at hillsdale. And i hope for those who enjoy book that you will come to see that we need to learn more and know more about about this great i do have some focus on the colleagues here. Im thrilled that theyre here former Senate Colleagues a couple of former white house colleagues and its where id to begin my book talk if i may some of you may recognize the photograph of a man who influenced me very deeply and just by the probably of god, i met three times during my tenure at the white house working for president bush and. I remember very strongly i write about this in the book, the very first time i met David Mccullough. By now i say with humility, ive read, i think, everything that thatwritten has written. But i was particularly struck in conversation that i had ne of americas really finest historians of the second part of th century by, a discussion i hh him about insomnia, of all things, insomnia. Why was David Mccullough suffering fromnia . I thought he was joking when he told me this. St i said, no, no, no. He said i meet with politicians all of the time, which he he did. And he said, i speak all time colleges, universities, schools. And he said, it concerns me very, very deeply that its not just the rising generation of Young Americans who dont know our history, dont know our constitution who dont know our culture. They dont know our american story. And as i was researching my book, i found out a very important i think, comment from doctor who said, im quoting it. He said, every day, as mccullough reads the papers, he said, it seems as if leaders are taking positions based politics and have forgotten about history, he said they, are unaware of the past and in how they will be remembered in the future that seems timely, topical and relevant, doesnt it. Lincoln said that its not enough to assert he was a euclidean, and he said over and again you have to demonstrate. But i think its what made him a great litigator and i would like to in in the best lincoln manner, if i may were meeting today the day after his birthday, id like to, if i may demonstrate not from opinion. I have a very dear friend who i relish and love. We spent time together many years in the senate and. We remember Daniel Patrick moynihan, the late senator from new york, who everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not everyones entitled to his own facts. And i think in part that is the problem that we have excused fact, history and weve replaced it with emotion and attitude in part. So instead of us sharing a bunch opinions, let me share. I may our empirical and attempt anyway to demonstrate part of what i use as the golden narrative in the first part of of toward a more perfect. This by the way, is a reprend tive Empirical Data set of. What what almost all of the data shows in what Public School not know about our history ando constitution, our declaration federalist papers, etc. T and is a test, by the way. Is taken from test that is given to every legal whoants become a citizen. And this is substantial survey. Its an accurate snapshot of what public students in that particular period of time not ago knew or know. And youll see that only one in four could name George Washington as the first president of the United States of america. Only 10 knew there are nine justices on the United States court, less than 30 only. Only 9 knew that the president heads, the executive branch of our government, only 3 were able to answer six out of the ten questions. Thats a pass score for the u. S. Citizenship test. I love space and aviation houston, comma, we a problem by the way these students would now be in their early to midthirties and they are casting votes. They are rallying in theyre even running and Holding Political office yet they were woefully ignorant of our history and our system of government. By the way, i wanted to share something else, if i may. There was another 2009 survey. I think this really matters that found that more than half of their respondents attributed this, by the way, in all of the 20th century. Right in all of the 20th century, this quote really matters from each according to his ability to each according to his deeds and this survey found that more than half respondents a attributed this, quote to either George Washington and thomas paine or president obama and not from the communist manifesto. In the same period of time. I want to share something else, if i may. I know that im speaking hillsdale are hillsdale of course is simpatico with the Intercollegiate Studies Institute isi. But whether its left or right in views, the empirical questions are what count. And i was particularly with an easy survey this is a large survey. 2500 american right only of of of all cou ne the three branches of the United Government including. Only 36 of College Graduates whcod do so. 18 could not name a single ghor a freedom graeed under. The United States constitution, one the highest schooonhe civics test administered by isi. Ill say it again the highest performing scienceasarvard university, whose students or a barely 70 , i might say even grading on a curve thats a dplus i mean the great Harvey Mansfield of harvard famously opposed inflation he said ill put the grade inflation score at the of the paper ill write a line and ill put the actual what they actually earned underneath d plus that should sober us. Now ten years later in preparing this i wanted to see measure comparable Empirical Data sets that in the same breath you could you could talk about hoping that you know a decade later things had perhaps improved. And so this is a 2018 survey that was by the Woodrow Wilson national foundation. And what i liked about this data set is that they did a large survey of people in all 50 states and they found that. Only 53 were able to earn a passing grade in u. S. History, 37 this actually. believe that Benjamin Franklin had invented the light David Eisenhower led ouright military in the american civil war. The way, i put in parentheses here a bit of a bit of humor the civiled in 1865 and eisenhower was not born until 1890, right. By the way, just a bit o humor 2 actually said that Climate Change caused the cold war. Okay. I maybe they thought it was funny as well. By the way, there was 2017 survey that was done by the American Council of trustees and alumni. I was taken by this particular survey and they found that 43 of all College Graduates do not know that the First Amendment gave them guarantees, codifies freedom of speech by. The way i think this explains a lot, dont you . Even as an inveterate and i am one. Thank you for saying so. This is sobering. Were not on the road to were there we are living in a time of mass historic, cultural and, constitutional, measurable illiteracy and. I think its application is colossal. By the way. I to make religious liberty and the rights of conscience a substantial part this book because vocationally and profession fully during my decade in the u. S. Senate for dan coats. Nearly eight years at the white house for George W Bush in the last 14 years as one of the Vice President s at focus the family i care pash honestly and deeply about religious liberty and conscience rights. I would argue strongly that if we do not have religious liberty and conscience rights, if these redefined, we no longer have the United States of america. And in this particular part of the i, someone whose worldview so broadly or narrowly speaking and out of time may have been probably was fundamentally different than my own. Thats good. Thats good. Orwell famously that he who controls the language polits right politics is a branch of ethics right he famously wrote all animals equal but some animals are more equal than others. Okay i didnt comeo llsdale to talk about pigs, but convincing americans equality demand as we treat religus individuals and organizations worse than others is a masters stroke of language and. I demonstrate in the book why increasingly, measurably. Our religious liberty and rights of conscience are under attack. And it is a predict regular frontal assault. One of the great books that David Mccullough wrote and its really rather extraordinary was on john adams, one of my favorite president s, the second president of the United States. And also its now forgotten his extremely important tent book on the constitution in some or all of you may know that adams was not present the Constitutional Convention nor thomas jefferson. Jefferson was in paris. Adams was was in london. Right. Im sure. They were emailing and texting to find out what was going on. Independence. But but a number of years after right after not the Constitutional Convention, adams in a famous to the massachusetts militia, this is 1798, right . By the way, adams lived to be a very old man. He wrote that our constitut was made only, you know, only can be a very dangerous word. s like always and never. Right adams was a was what was a genius. He knew what he was saying here. He said, our cost of tuition was made only for aoral and religious people. It is wholly in adequate to the ment of any. Im raising our right hand. Adams was not anvangelical christian by the lights of the 21st century. Most people of goodwill would not say that he was you at every turn. It sort of an orthodox theological know biblical christian in this regard. But what he is writing is timeless when it comes to the application of the United States america this not just any other country this is our country. And what an exceptional, remarkable country this is exceptional. And i that history has proven. Adams be correct when people ann a moral or Righteous Foundation socie collapse and. F the ills we face as nation today ive ive named just some of themility broken families drug abuse, urban violence. These are manifestations. Have replaced the blueprintrt we bequeathed tothrough the declaration of independence and theonstitution ution with a blank document. Each person is told to fill in for himself or herself. I went back and read many the speeches of president eisenhower and. Im convinced that the 1953 inaugural address is very underrated. This is a this is a great speech and there is a gem of a sentence that is thats in that. And placed it in the book. And i wanted to evoke it and tease it out a bit because in 53, eisenhower power says that a people that values its privileges ave its pncles soon loses both. I tnkhat we have in part forgotten our principles while exalting our but without principleso rve as a foundation. It seems to me that we will eventually our privileges to and that is what we are seeing playing out in our culture every day. Id like to use some examples if i may. I am just back from speaking at a very large and a very well known universe to everybody who is at hillsdale. It shall unnamed and in all seven of the. Classes that i was honored to speak in, totaling by the way, across seven classes, a little over a thousand students, maybe, maybe a bit more. I, in each and every class. Are there any california natives or people who have spent any substantial part their young lives living in california. And in every one of those classes, the hands went up. And by the way, you know, antioch are not statistics. Okay. But i asked how many of you know who father sarah is across seven class is one hand one ill repeat. Across seven classes one hand father sarah of course, broadly or narrowly defined, is one of the principal of california and. The missions and what achieved in this exceptional state this remarkably beautiful, exceptional exam three place california he has been effectively erased and by way we are standing meeting tonight here at hillsdale all washingtonc and just thre blocks from where we are meeting there is one of the most beautiful monuments, statues of im a lincoln man to z. Count me. This is a this is a remarkable person for all history, american or not. And we have had a delegate to the United States house of representative tives who has just yet again filed right. The equivalent of legislation to dismantle i have this great statue the monument of of lincoln this told in this era of unfortunate that iconoclasm this this monument was paid for by former american slaves. It is beautiful beautiful public monument. Its a glorious public piece of artwork. I think i have looked at this 100 times or more in my life. Are and im sorry to say, as i as i demonstrate in the book, its not just sort of thing the attempts to erase abraham lincolns name our nation has a pattern. When i walked hillsdale tonight, i saw the beautiful portrait of churchill just before covid i was speaking at another Great American university. And at the end of my remarks. Its common for people who who speak from time to time people will come down to where youre speaking afterward and and you have a bit of conversation. And i had a number of undergraduates come down who told me they were really intrigued by this of winston churchill, whom they had heard of. George washington, thomas jefferson. Theodore roose Theodore Roosevelt. Oh, my gosh. Roosevelt. What a remarka american. Another one of my favorite historians who who very, very recently, not even in. Ri but wrote one of the best single volumes ever written on american and the story of america right paul johnson, John Theodore roosevelt rightfully was Paul Johnsons favorite president , right. He famously every american one time in his or her life should stand on the south rim of the grand canyon right. I know i have new yorkers in the room this evening, you know, he bequeath wreathed to the Natural Museum in new york that incredible museum. My wife jenny and i and our sons have visited this museum loved this museum. And you all may or may not know that in the last year and a half, the great Theodore Roosevelt memorial and statue in front of the New York Museum was essentially crated and taken away. And im told last report that it will be finding a new home in dakota. God bless north dakota dakota. Barry weis. Writes eloquently about much of what im speaking evening. Ive really learned a lot from and she she wrote a a paragraph that i think really beautifully much of what im sharing this evening. She wrote the primary of this idea logical movement. Shes talking about cancel culture is not building or renewing or but tearing. She says persuasion, is replaced with punishment. Mercy is replaced with vengeance, pluralism, conformity, debate with deplatforming facts, feelings, ideas as with identity and. I think theres a reason, perhaps, that she is a former new york opinion writer. Let me demonstrate why i write at length in the book about the 1619 project for, those who dont know the 1619 project posits that the United States begins actually in. 19 when the slave ships came to the coast lands of what is now the commonwealth speak in these terms, but this is a lie lie. This is a very toxic project. Is borne of a angst where the united of america is held ultimately in very low regard. And i want to i want to speak, if i may, just for a moment in antidotes and not statistics once again having, nothing to do with the left or. American progressivism. But i was at a very substantial meeting of my fellow conservatives and there was a very robust conversation about the 1619 project and i purposely went around after meeting to find out how many of them had read the 1619 project. Very few. They, in my opinion, by reading other people, had come the conclusions that ive shared. But i made a point to read the 1619 project multiple times to really become conversant with what its about and what its catalyzed narrative seeks to do do. And i think that nikole, who is the author of the 1619 project which was born of course at the new york times, i think in in a moment of crystal clarity, i might say unflinching clarity. She makes it very clear the fight over the 1619 project is not about history really. Its a totalte of the american story. But she says itt about history it is about memory. And as i ad that like a sponge, i thought myself, thats right thats whats going here. Hannahjones, by the way, said she was honored to claim responsibility for the violent, destructive mobs who toppled statues and in violent actions. Meanwhile, the 19 project is being taught in thousands of schools nationwide. And president bidens cited it as an exemplary piece of work in new guidelines for department of education grants. This should concern us very deeply. The 1619 project is irredeemable flawed, by the way. People of goodwill have continually about the illiteracy where did it come from . What are the seedlings . Where is it born . Is it bad parenting . You know, is bad teaching . I came to the conclusion in toward a more Perfect Union that this was intention all and a number of people are in the intention refashioning and new memory and new narrative of American History and its teaching, but none think none. Not one is more complicit than howard zinn and howard zinn is a name that deserves to be on the tip of the tongue in this moment of parental and grand parental rebellion that are seeing because hee handedly trans formed the study of histor american edu from, the discipline of surveyits andvents to the display of fi particular narratives,acts to heaid he wanted to trans reform american hist and. He said to denounce western civilizand tconvince ameran students to reject it. He said it, was marred. Is re neo marxism marked, he said. The religi popes, th government ofgs, e frenzy of money. Its catnip. By the way, i four uncles who valiantly fought in World War Two i venerate their im assuming there are many people here this evening whose own parents or grandpa prince or members of your family foster were involved in World War Two. Whether they saw action or not served honorably. Howard zinn wrote that america became involved in World War Two and im quoting him to protect the imperial interests of the United States. Can you imagine, please do. Being a young person in your American History class and youre learning about World War Two for the first time. And this is the sort of thing that you are learning and being taught. I actually really think we a moral duty to internalize this kind of thing. By the way, in the world of howard zinn, my much published, much this is merely the tip of a titanic iceberg. The examples are so that theyre in fact is at least one scholar. I wish could know. Mary graber. I went back and read her study of howard zinns work. And i two things to share because. I think one of them is really evokes the damage that he does and did. And i think the other one is a gloss on where were at. She wrote that zinns propagan has been spectacular effective. I totally agree. Sh hisishonest American History not the only factor in americans turn from their herige of freedom, communist fantasies. But he has been instrumental in this destructive traatio i thats right. She says. Howard zinn has succeeded in conv a geration of americans that the nation abraham truly cthe st or racist criminal enterprise, a built, murdering indians, exploiting slaves, oppressing the working man. The damage has been enormous. Barry says that keeping the spirit of liberty alive is in an age of creeping illiberalism is nothing less than our moral obligation. Everything depends on it. And right. I think we are definitively at a perilous time in the United States of america. A hinge moment. And the question think is, will we choose the truths of the declaration or will we fall prey to the false theories that have led to many to tyranny. It iour mission, all of us, to restore our National Unity by reki a bve and honest ve for our country, and by raising neraons of citizens who not only know the selfe trus of our founding, but act worthy of them. Thats the goal, by the way, where at home in school, at the workplace and the world. It the people and only the people who have the power to stand up for america and defend our way of. All of. This comes from the 1776 project and it has been an honor to be able to recommend personal. The 1776 project over and over and over again as just one antidote out to 619 and the toxicity and malevolence of the work of howard zinn. And i think that the 1776 project deserves only to be better known but to be widely used as the Gold Standard of the history of the United States of america. And by the way, by the way, paul johnson famously wrote. Right. That good history, great history is an antidote to arrogance. Right. The goal in writing toward a more Perfect Union was not to somehow replace history with ideology, a new ideology or another idea. Right. It was to say what history is and what deserves to be known and learned and loved by the next generation of our citizens. Finally, if i may. It seems a bit of an overstatement to say that there could ever be parts of any farewell address that would or could the great farewell address of George Washington. But i feel fairly confident that 1989, in Ronald Reagans farewell address he not only hit a very high point but i actually do think that this was certainly prescient and maybe prophetic. Remember is 1989. This is a long time before woke up stand cancel culture. Right. And the erasure that were talking. He says he said an informed patriotism is what w. Thats. Weve got to do a better job, he said. G across that is freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion freedom of enterprise. And Ronald Reagan says, freedom is special and rare. It is. He says. Its fragile and needs protection. We forget what we, he said. We wont know who we are. Listen to this. This89. He im warning. Imng of an erratic version of the an m that could result ultimately in the erosion of in the erosion of the american spirit. Ink its possible . Thats where we have arrived arrived. Reagan said. Start wie basic more attention to history and civicl. He said, all great change happens at the dinner table so tomorrow night in kitchen, i hope the talking. I believe with all of my heart that it would have been to write book without concluding on a note of. I feel enormous gratitude for the United States of america. I have dear friend in new york hes above 90. He wrote a wonderful about his love affair with america. You know, i feel the same. You know, our constitution, our declaration, our story by the way, not the balkanization. And of everybodys story. Our story. But heres the heres the note of gratitude and heartfelt. That its common to say, oh, weve never been this divided before. Yes, we have. We have, you know, in the american revolution, which they never called the american revolution, they called it the cause. Right. One third were for the british. One third were indifferent. And one third were for the cause. Thats two thirds who are indifferent or for the british empire. Know. Thats a lot of people. And we we were victorious. Its almost forgotten now. The nullification crisis. Right. It was a close run thing. The american civil divided. Weve been more divided. 700,000 americans lost their lives. Untold Property Damage marches to the sea, the burning of american brothers, cousins, relatives zuni, each other in the fields and peach. Weve been this divided. The moral and the social revolution of the sixties the seventies and the eighties. That was division bitter division. Parts of washington, d. C. , burned to the ground. Weve been divided before and weve come through. I we have been blessed and graced in some of those hinge moments with authentically great leadership. The statesmanship and leadership of George Washington erased. George washington in Thomas Flexner was right. He was the indispensable able man, a great man. By the way a man of great virtue, a talented general. One of our finest. Two terms unanimously. Elected to the presidency. Objectively, a great human being for all of American History and all of history. Lincoln, you know lincoln. Youll never get to the bottom of him. Hes that great. And it goes on and on. So im optimistic that the best days of the united of america are ahead of us. And the reason i am optimistic is because i believe strongly that in this hinge we have millions of americans who have i believe, woken up to woke and a sudden theyre asking whos on the school board and should i run for the school board . And who decides the curriculum and what are they being taught . Thats a good sign and i think that thats being replicated in other ways in other spaces. I think thats important. A very dear friend mine in washington, we were having a cup of coffee a couple of weeks ago and we decided that the new question ought to be not wrong with america. Whats right with america . Now, i mean, in this moment, there are many great things, great things that are happening. America right now that somehow dont make it into the papers are on social media or other places because of this kind of ongoing thing ideological battle. I think its its important we ask more often whats right with our country. Ill say again, i think gratitude is good. The soul right. And so so im hopeful. Im optimistic. And i believe with good reason. Right. And well we will trust the fact that weve been in a difficult time before and come through and that as we dive off into the 21st century that we have ample opportunity to do it again. May god bless United States of america. Thank you all very much. You bet. You know, i think you need to the bottom of this. I got it. I got it from green. You can all hear me now. Hello . Push the button. Underneath there you go. Thank you, jim. Youre welcome. We just have a few minutes for a couple of questions. And i wanted to just kind of ask you to tease out a couple other aspects of your book, and one that i thought was particularly lovely. Chief seattle. Yes who i thought was a nice way of highlighting the difference between the originals in as you put it of howard zinn versus a sort of positive and realistic view of could be reintroduced. Could you say a little more about that. Yes. You know, i say in the book and im eager to say to everybody here and far beyond here that Chief Seattle is a remarkable american figure and is beyond of having the city of seattle for him. His pivotal role as chief of of the two Indian Tribes in that part of the northwest, the way that he maneuvered in behalf of geography, in behalf of the of the people he represented. He was a he a remarkable negotiator. He was extremely thoughtful and he was a very talented public man. And in many ways, heres the caveat. Its entirely surprising that there has been a move afoot to erase Chief Seattle as outlined in the book, he was a slave holder and. You know, somehow with some elements of the progressive left, this somehow doesnt doesnt fit a narrative. Right. But, you know, much of history doesnt fit a narrative. Right. Much of history to be going in that direction until its not going in that direction. Right. David and goliath, good example. You know, isnt a progression that we are supposed to expect until it doesnt happen. And i think in the case of Chief Seattle his achievement is monumental. The history of what he did and how he did it is think far too little known. And i find it a fascinating study not only of his life. But of the centrality of his achievement relative to the entire northwest part of of our incredible country. And i think he more than rose to the occasion. And i think we we need to introduce the rising generation of, Young Americans to great man. You you also in book make a distinction in a variety of ways. But one of the sort of heather descriptions you give us a distinguishing education and indoctrination. Yes. And i always sort of joke im like, i am a doctor of literature and government but. But whats wrong with it . Wouldnt you want doctrine. Mean. Would you sort of highlight more of the difference between the two in terms of, you know, the current problem . Id be very pleased to. When i was a very young man, i was given an essay by the late great russell kirk. And as i write in my first book and i say this with great humility, we became very good friends when he and his wife annette would travel washington. We would a meal together. And i you know, i went to mecosta, michigan, his ancestral home, spent time there. I really consider it one of the blessings of my life to have had a friend like, russell kirk. And this early essay that i was given i think was 13 or 14 years old, was kirk writing about the danger of ideology. In fact using quirky and language he said let ideology be anathema. Ive never forgotten that anathema. Wow. You know, let it be enemy that anybody left right. Who gives their to ideology over against what is the. Right. Thats the best of dogmatic. Right but when were talking about in dr. Thenation, were not talking about healthy, dogmatic. Right. Were not talking theology between the 40 yard lines. What were talking about is a view or narrative of of life that is imposed unwillingly in opposition to the free mind. And i think its very dangerous. And i think that is precisely what we have seen. Russell kirk was right. Ideology is not increasingly viewed as anathema. It has been history so often. Great history, great literature. The finest parts of western civilization and culture, which i write about in book, have been replaced by ideology. And i think its the sort of thing that when a young person begins to learn the over against the ideology, they rightfully feel they have been robbed of own western civilized, their own western culture or bona fides, and they have right to be to be a very in that. You mentioned the statue just three blocks away, just a piece. History, not ideology. I watched took a walk over there i watched the older africanamerican couples live in this area, stand in front of the statue and defend it. Yes. Two young, radical olds screaming for it to be torn down and they peacefully talked them down. I find that to be not ideological, just a truth. Thats kind of a but is a beautiful one. Im very glad you said that. I write in the book. So i have lived and worked in washington for almost 35 years and ive spent a good part of my profession and a life all in the city, in the central core of washington near the white house, the white house, lafayette square, lafayette park, etc. And during the iconoclasm, right of summer of 2020 for the time i went down, parked my car on h street just to walk around lafayette park, the hayadams, one of the most Historic Hotels in the united veterans, which has the famous plaque from from the words of abraham. Right. Which echoed the bible of of the the duty that we have to care for the orphans and the widows, the madison home, the historic madison home on lafayette square. I, i spent about 4 hours Walking Around as much as i could. I was shocked and horrified to find that the statues of the four great foreign born which are the four in that beautiful urban rectangular park that all four of those great were in, in what looked like three strands of barbed wire to protect them from being vandalized or smashed in the center of that park. Andrew jackson its one of the most important. Hes on the back of his horse. Its one of the most important statues of kind in the world. And we all witnessed vandals who tried to throw straps it and and bring down. You know, the historic cannonade was was was and broken at its base the of veterans affairs. Rocks been thrown through the window the parts of the madison had been boarded up. In the United States america in our nations. Unacceptable. Were better than that. We are left, right and center. Its not worthy of our country. Were running out of time. So i just want to maybe just conclude with three sort of virtues you bring forward and maybe free, you know, free association, whichever you want to comment on. But they all three struck me because you highlighted in fairly specific ways as being very much in contrast to this sort of ideological indoctrination. Yes. And the sort of memory holding the sort of thing, because it is i found it very in the book, you make the double point. It is a kind of ideological interpellation. Theyre forcing on the free mind, but theyre also just withholding a great ocean of good things. The free mind. Right. So theyre starving . Yes. Right. And then poisoning. Its an era of both and misinformation, but willful and just the sheer, just a sad vacuity. Yes. The three things you said are sort of counter, which i thought was interesting, the virtue of, perseverance. Yes. That you sort of youd quote others and then you go and i would add. Yes. Which im curious why that in particular forgiveness. Yes. Was the other one. Right. You saw his in contradistinction to this. And then last not least, but youve already come to know one is gratitude, which is always near and dear to my heart. Right, because of my dear friend and ally of american republic, Marcus Tullius cicero. Right. Who said gratitude is precisely the recognition that drives one on to do duties. Absolutely. Youre duty bound because, youre thankful and no other reason. Thats right. Now, maybe im stealing your thunder on that one, but i wanted you to comment on these. And then we can. Yes, thank you for asking. And then we can actually head out for a a book signing. So people can get in line up there. Thats great. Ill do it. Ill give it. Ill give an answer, which is an amalgam of the three virtues, if i may. You know, i believe very firmly, as a christian that despair and discouragement is a sin, because i think it negates hope. That is at the of faith and. It would be so easy and in the moment that in to join a camp. Right. To put persistence. To put forgiveness aside and and to bulldoze our way forward in hopes that somehow we can be the grand marshal, our own ideological parade. And i think that that is exactly the wrong forward. I think we have to do everything we can overwhelmingly with good cheer, with magnanimity, with civility, with the negation of at every turn, to actually reintroduce the idea, the antique idea of real conversation, real dialog, even with the people with whom we disagree most vociferously. And i that people goodwill can spend part of our lives perhaps being frustrated but i think better frustrated. Matthew then jumping on to kind of train that think paul johnson in another context i think illustrated so well that somehow were in the back part of the caboose having you know that the party of western civilization and when someone taps us on the shoulder warn us that nobodys in the engine car and my view is that in this perilous moment i feel that we have to be on our bound and duty bound to engage the people who most disagree with us and share the Great American story and to know by the way that there is both a moral and a cultural reason for doing so. And that is because the history of our country is worthy of it. I mean, in all of the history of the world big statement, right . This is one of the most remarkable there ever was not a country. Back to your beautiful introduction. If were going to negate the idea of moving toward a more Perfect Union, then ultimately what were really seeking is a utopia. Its not what we want. We have to be comfortable with imperfection. Right. We have to be comfortable with imperfection. And we can make distinctions, reason and faith are both gifts, discernment is is a good gift from providence. I believe. And i think we can discern the excellent from the mediocre and to be confident at that standards in good taste dont change. And i think some of men and women that weve talked about tonight, i think some of the chapters of america and western civilization, weve discussed are worthy of our veneration in this generation and in unborn all. Right. Thank you very much, tim. Everyone on about books we delve into the latest news about the Publishing Industry with interesting insider interviews with Publishing Industry experts. Well also give you updates on current nonfiction authors and books. The latest book reviews. An