Transcripts For CSPAN3 Post-Civil 20240703

State but moved to the greenest state in the land of the free. As soon as he could. And it was here at the university of tennessee, where he completed his ph. D. In history. And we know that dr. Hardy is a man of good sense because hes stayed is now an east tennessean, and its even rumored that he wears the color throughout the year save basketball season. After all, no man is perfect. Oh, what, dr. Hardy continues to perfect, though, is is of the past. He and i first met when he was working here for the east Tennessee Historical society and the Education Department. And he, alongside lisa oakley, whos with us today, worked tirelessly to build a network of teachers throughout the region who understood the power local history in the classroom. They also worked tirelessly to create a network of students in high school and middle school who are competing at the highest levels in the National History day competitions. Despite that workload, dr. Hardy was always generous with his time. With me in the curatorial department. He proved to be an invaluable resource on projects dealing with Abraham Lincoln, the sesquicentennial, the civil war and most recently the jim crow era in knoxville. And it was really during this time that we first started talking about the origins of baseball and how to recreate in knoxville. So im sure youre going to enjoy that today today. Dr. Hardy serves an assistant professor of history and the lincoln scholar at Lincoln Memorial university, where hes also the executive director of the Abraham Lincoln center for leadership and Public Policy outside of that, you should know that dr. Hardy cares deeply for his family. Hes an avid of the mountains. Hes a Founding Member of the knoxville holsteins vintage club, and he has strong predilection for chocolate milk, donuts and olive garden in no particular. You should also know hes a dogged researcher, the type that understood the power of place and the importance individual stories to the art, to larger events and. In that vein, his forthcoming title is on the knoxvilles Million Dollar fire, which will be an interesting publication, one that ive encouraged him to read title as one hot night in knoxville. But enough about the our topic at hand is a perfect the origins of baseball knoxville. Please join me in welcoming my colleague and good friend dr. William hardy. Well, good afternoon, everybody. Its a pleasure to. Be back at the east Tennessee History Center where i spent eight years here. The east Tennessee Historical society. As adam said in the Education Department and this for today, really comes full circle in this building because it was approximately ten years ago when i was working on second floor when adam walked into my office with a baseball in his hand, set it down on my desk and had this little slide grin all over his face. So whats this . So this is what were going to be doing next summer. I was like, oh, this is interesting. And adam pitched the idea that he was starting a vintage Baseball Club. He had seen some two clubs playing over in the nashville area, and i was pretty excited because i always wanted to play baseball. I just for a number of reasons, unfortunately, just never had the opportunity to play any any baseball. As a young man. And so i was excited and i said, this is great. Ill get to play baseball. And adam said, well, not exactly. What do you mean . And he said, i was thinking about rather than playing baseball all in your row, you would be what we call the arbiter in vintage baseball, the umpire. And i mean all the excitement drained from my face, not being able to live my childhood fantasies was gone in a heartbeat. And, you know, no fall it adam was it was it was right and thought itd be perfect to be the umpire because in the vintage baseball game, their role is to explain the rules of the 1864 game that we play and to also offer any contact texts. And i can do that on the civil war era, but i no, adam, youre going to play baseball. I to play baseball. Come on, captain put me in. Im ready to play and there was for reasons i was excited to play, vintage baseball one obviously getting to play baseball. Number two. Well, i needed the exercise badly. Number three, it would be a great opportunity for my kids to see their old man play ball and, maybe occasionally not make a fool of themselves and do something that looked like a bit of athletic prowess in the garden and number four, i knew instantly there was a possibility of public option opportunities. Being a civil war scholar, i knew that there had been a wealth of knowledge on on baseball. But the amateur in the south postcivil war, even precivil war, hadnt been thoroughly explored by historian now. I know that there are articles out there by baseball historians working with the society, the sabr, the society of baseball and a butcher. This march, american based society baseball research. Thank you, dr. Feller. And i know that theyve done some studies, but theres nothing been really extensive on postcivil war baseball and especially in knoxville. I was excited to see to dig into that story. And adam had already done a little bit of brief about two teams that were going to be playing the knoxville holsteins, which was a team that existed in 1867, and the dry town boys of herriman, tennessee which i believe existed little bit later in the 1870s, if i recall correctly. So this was a really exciting opportunity to play the game and to do the research and hopefully produce something. It just took ten years to do it a lot. My plate and thats what im going to talk about today. Excited to share the product of that ten years of research into baseball history. Now, first, im to talk about the gentlemans game, the of amateur era baseball and baseball was in the antebellum urban environment and was constituted at a Sporting Fraternity that emerged in mid19th century america, its middle to upper middle class culture, a culture that emphasized clean sport and exercise to improve ones health, character and morality. The sport of baseball for these early amateur baseballs served as a vehicle to improve ones physical and wellbeing while, providing masculine camaraderie, sociability and entertainment at these early Baseball Clubs. Salt, white gentlemen, members respectable young men of good position and good character were often those connected with various mercantile and banking houses and a sprinkling of other profession in all occupations, such as lawyers, doctors, Real Estate Agents, etc. Etc. Now the game of baseball took many forms, but the game that becomes the National Pastime about the time of the American Civil War was the new york game, which happened in brooklyn, new york. And this born in really the mid 1850s as rules were laid down and and stipulations found the game now as several of these new york baseballs would eventually leave gotham for new beginnings to the north to the south mostly the west. They took the new york game with them and, organized Baseball Clubs, and thats this game became National Game in short order. If you look on this slide right here before the American Civil War baseball has spread across this continent and is out on the west coast as early as 1858, but importantly for whats coming. And ill discuss is that baseball exists still in the south precivil war you can find it in kentucky. You can find it in macon and augusta, georgia, galveston and houston texas, new orleans. It all across the south and in memphis and nashville, tennessee so it did exist before 1860s. It was not, as often has been told, a sport that came to the south as a product of the American Civil War and appeared when southern soldiers saw the game played in their prison of war camps or elsewhere or maybe on the battlefield during a sort of a period in which there was no fighting, in which baseball was played. Now, baseball was growth was not halted. The American Civil War, it was only temporarily slowed. Yes, fewer were played. And many baseball is the war fighting for both union and confederate forces. But these baseball is turned. Soldiers continued to play the in their camps when weather, leisure and weather permitted which helped spread the game to those had never seen the game before. Soldiers played here at fort pulaski, georgia these are Union Soldiers. This is usually regarded as the very photograph of a baseball game. You can see the 48th new york volunteer infantry in the front, the band. But in the background that is a baseball being played back there and i mentioned a minute ago Union Soldiers would play baseball, even in a confederate prisoner of war camps, as seen in this 1863 lithograph of prisoner of war camp in south berry, North Carolina. Now, what the civil war did was help democratize the game by exposing it to a blue collar class, so to speak, of americans who in the postcivil war era would organize clubs of their own as a source of not only entertainment and physical exercise, but also to maintain a masculine in camaraderie that the soldiers were used to from four years of serving and as a fighting alongside each other. Now, after the war, baseball exploded. Americans cut the baseball fever, but the tens of thousands and this epidemic struck americans from coast to coast with such ferocity that in the words of the editor of the Daily National intelligencer, it constituted a perfect mania of the masculine persuasion, irrespective of age station or condition has an attack. The baseball fever, which now brings us to knoxville, tennessee. And when did baseball arrive and by whom whom . The origin stories of knoxville baseball until more recently, has often been attributed to one man, samuel billings, down as knoxville, as founding father of baseball and it comes from an article thats been widely available to and those interested in baseballs origins upstairs on the third floor of the mcclung historical collection and its vertical files, it was an article published on november 20th, 1921, in the knoxville sentinel. The signals associate editor and manager nb withers penned thi article in which he wrote, quote, baseball has quite a t since t war, but the games, just as interestingly and hotly contested back in 1865 as they are today. In 1921, in those days, gloves were unknown and overhand pitching was not allowed because scores were the rule and it was no strange thing for one team to beat another by a comfortable margin of 30 runs in these days, babe ruth is willing to call it a good day when he knocks a couple of home runs out of the polo grounds. But sb dahl, captain of the old knoxville team, says that he always two or three home runs in a in, quote sb dahl was samuel billings. Dahl and he was already widely known not just around knoxville, but across america. He was not just one of the elder at this time. Merchant prentiss is a knoxville he was nationally known as expert sharpshooter. So much so that he featured on a poster about the united Cartridge Company with other expert sharpshooters and on the very bottom row in the dead center, you may notice a female that is annie oakley on the right side. You may already recognize sam was Close Friends with the worlds wealthiest man oil tycoon john dirac, a feller. They were golfing buddies and the dahl would often joke into the press that rockefeller, you know, he wins all the time. But he cant beat me. I can outrun him. I can beat him in the game of golf that rockefeller could only get four rounds or four holes in before he was spent for the day. For those who know a little bit about rockefeller, he suffered from ill health. Now dow was a larger than personality, but this article from 1921, in which delbert dale tells the origins of knoxville baseball needs to be read very carefully. It is a collection of memories. An 82 year old man who is purportedly recalling events that are from 55 years in the past according to dow. He started the first Baseball Club in knoxville. In 1865, and it was the first such Baseball Club in the south. He said that he had gotten the names of about 60 men, a mix of and southern boys from the civil war who were possible candidates to join his Baseball Club. And he set a date for a meeting at a local billiards room on gay street. Now, knoxville, though situated in the heart of civil war, east tennessee, it a deeply divided city during the war, so therefore was going to be a good mix of unionist and confederates. Now on the day of the meeting, dow was surprised only about half of the 60 men showed up. These were all men they quickly organized team called the knoxville knoxvilles elected their officers dal, was elected captain and secured a field on the east side of j street and began to practice. Meanwhile, according to dal, though southern boys who didnt show up, they met elsewhere and organized own club called themselves the holston club and secured a field out along what is now jackson avenue somewhere near the Railroad Tracks. The practice practice now down goes on to mention some of names of the Baseball Players, which are instrumental in getting a list of possible Baseball Players that played. But he goes back to say that the first baseball game which shortly was played, happened in 1865, just right after the end of the American Civil War in dallas memory. This game was amazing with several freak injuries in which he identifies unfortunate by name and how they came to incur those such injuries. Dow claimed that the knoxvilles won that first match with the holsteins by 17 runs and that they played a number of games over years, few years in, which the hosts won some. But the knoxvilles basically won the most. He closed, noting that he kept the Team Together for a few years until until development on long game street it necessary for us to abandon old baseball grounds now writing the history of the origins of baseball in knoxville means as historian, i cant rely one source. Ive got to go out and corroborate dales story and got to go out and find other evidence. Sure, i can. I can be a journalist and use this. Pull it out of the vertical thousand, produce an article rather quickly. But as a story, my name goes on to this publication now in the journal of east tennessee history, which im very proud of, and ive got to be able to show my evidence for this. And up till now, there have been few historians, steven, delve into this topic and. They must be acknowledged because its a good historian. We stand on the shoulders of those who come before us. And i must first say that an honor is to the late ron allen, who was a local historian in who did considerable research, i imagine, up on the third floor in the microfilm room, going through newspapers. And he compiled a list books, a number of books on various topics on knoxville history and which is a wonderful vehicle into certain topic, having and go straight to the source and found he found these these accounts he about dow it talks about this 1921 article and hes you know he acknowledges he says 1865 but i cant find anything in the newspapers, not to at least 1867. The second person i must acknowledge adam alfrey, who when he was doing his history of of the first two Baseball Teams in our vintage Baseball League on the holsteins in the dry town boys of harriman, he produced his research and, gave a presentation here in 2014. I in summer 2014 in which was the first to really push back on the 1865 date and say there is no evidence for 1865. Its 67. And heres the newspaper articles. And adam was able to produce a very 80 of newspaper articles from 1867 with reports of these freak that occurred during, that socalled first baseball game the dow mentioned, and they occurred over multiple games. The third person i must acknowledge is mark aubrey, who is a fashion dating research searcher, actually is an unpaid researcher. I think he often will send me messages. Midnight for, a project that should have been finished by now. The firebug at a mentioned at a mark has been one of these great friends that i had through playing vintage baseball and has been a source of of its. Hes a wonderful source to help me in my research and he has produced he has several blogs on knoxville baseball history i think its called ode, knoxville baseball. Hes done some work on, africanamerican baseball, the leagues here in knoxville, appalachian leagues featured on wb our recently and produces research for saber. I stand on their shoulders and launched this project in which i had to go out and find a number of sources to be able to tell a much more complete story. Those sources include well the newspaper articles things to like ron allen and who had found these articles with boxcar doors, which produced names often last names only. Adam found a of eligible bachelors in knoxville in 1867 and under this list bachelors they give descriptions of them and list anyone who was playing baseball. All of these were Baseball Players. That gave me additional and in some cases first names to last names i could not tell. Who is this person . I mean, get a name like a smith. Ive got a problem. How can i figure out who this smith is . So eligible bachelor ads were help census records, city directories to be able to figure out who these people were, their occupations, their their net worth photographs maps to be able to discover where played baseball and as a type of thrill. I loved going to cemeteries. Cemetery visits have provided me Additional Information like military that i did not know and that i could add another oh this is another baseball player who played in the military now samuel be down in his article for the most part pretty good but exaggerates a little bit about his athletic and the dates are as adam correctly argued were a little bit off and go figure 1865 it begins in the spring of 1865 the civil war still going on. Knoxville is a disaster. This city badly divided, fought over, occupied by both armies. Maybe only unoccupied for a few days and four years of war. How could they be playing baseball. A lot of these names on this list werent even here in 1865. One good thing came out of adams talk. Many things, but, well, adams spoken in 2014. A descendant of dale came and attended the talk and had given them his information and i had a mention in passing that this descendant had been there and he had given them personal information and said he had some stuff. And so when i finally got the nudge from the journal to get this article done, i contacted adam, gave me the information, and i was like, wow, this has been like quite number of years. Ill try this email and lo and behold, i got a response within a few hours of sending that email and found him over in North Carolina and he said, i got some stuff, my basement, so ill go this is the College Summer of 2020. I was ready to get out and take precautions, but i went over to his house off of lake norman. Its beautiful. And he took me down into his basement. That might be a little weird, but hey, cool things can be found in basements for historians. And when i down he had this workbench and cases books documents all across the desk cases of stuff for two prominent knoxville families. Im working on him getting that to mcclung im trying there is a wealth of information in there but he told me he said look, ive got a lot of sam dales stuff here, but ive looked through it. I dont think ive in baseball stuff. But youre happy to through it. There was no baseball, nothing related to down baseball, but there was a wealth of information which. I can now tell a story about dale and really get a good, solid, brief biography of this man sam dow was born in bangor, maine in 1839 and five years of age. His family migrated to exeter, new i cant say for certain where. Dow saw baseball played but i can make some inferences at local academy in exeter the Phillips Exeter Academy Baseball was played even the president lincolns Robert Todd Lincoln who attended there played baseball. Its quite possible dallas all baseball played there now you probably didnt see the new york game there because up in new england they favored the massachusetts game was a game. Im glad we do not vintage baseball because one way to put you out by soaking and that is hitting you with a baseball baserunner, you could hit a base runner and theyd be out. Thankfully we do not have those rules, but it is quite possible. We saw baseball there. One of the things this descended had a diary of dow. It was before the baseball period, before the civil war, but it was 1859 to 1860. And in diary i found that he had left exeter in 1859 and went to louisville, kentucky, my hometown. It was pretty cool. And he followed his brother to to go into the grocery business, to learn the grocery trade and louisville, kentucky baseball was very active. There was a quite a number teams and gentlemen of his class were the gentlemen played that game i cant say for certain he played baseball there. He didnt say he played baseball before this period, but its quite possible he saw baseball played in louisville, the civil war came and dow wanted to do his part and, join the union war effort. He was in kentucky, which was neutral. So he crossed ohio river, made his way up to inapt, was to see the governor of indiana and asked i will raise a regiment to do our part in indiana meeting the president lincolns quote at 75,000 troops to be raised across the country to put down the rebellion, the governor said, i thank you, mr. But weve got enough troops. Weve met the dow said. Okay. He returned back to louisville, kentucky, and then soon thereafter joined the second kentucky calvary just outside of just across the ohio river, actually in jeffersonville. Thats where they formed the second kentucky calvary, not inside kentuckys border. His civil war didnt last long. He was at the battle shiloh. He got illness so severely he had to go back home to exeter, new hampshire, to recover with his parents once he recovered, he got a desk job basically with the United States government, the Revenue Service. He found his way to knoxville, tennessee in 1864, shortly after admiral burnside had liberated the city in the fall of 1863. It is there in knoxville. He laid down his roots, got into the grocery business and he made fast friends in the masonry. And he gathered a network of gentlemen just like himself. Now. We fast forward to 1867, a transformative in knoxville history, transformative event along the entire east Tennessee River valley. When the Holston River flooded now we know it is the Tennessee River today in knoxville, tennessee, but it was the Holston River at that time on down, passed knoxville. That designation wasnt changed. Believe in the General Assembly to the late 1890s or Something Like that, where it becomes the Tennessee River at the just north of the city. Heres an image the flood of 1867. It was a flood that washed out many homes, flooded the city via creeks, first and second creek turning Downtown Knoxville virtually into an island. It would set on a 60 foot bluff here a little, so to speak, if there any flat in knoxville and business sort of kind of came to a standstill. And it was during this period as the water slowly began to recede, that dow started about and talking to some of his friends about the idea of lets play baseball. Lets organize a Baseball Club and therefore, on march the 19th, 1867, sam dow called a meeting together at joseph coopers star billiards saloon and this was a article that i found in the paper. It was a very small print easily to be overseen when someone is going through microfilm looking at it with their eyes getting a migraine as a result of looking at microfilm. I benefit from todays technology and being able to do a Online Search at home and use ocr to pop in baseball and and found this, which i dont think anyone ever found. So this is the first notice published the knoxville whig on march 20th that a seball meeting occurred the night before. Heres a photograph of Downtown Knoxville is sam dow on the right at about approximately 1867. This image has always been published in 1869. Use the signs it use the city directories and newspapers. You can find out that this picture is actually than 1869. Its somewhere the late summer of 1867 sorry, late summer of 1866 and the spring 1867. So were right in that period of baseball being organized if you see the red arrow, its pointing at star billiards, which was located in ramsey hall just underneath slide photographer tim slayers gallery. It was here that night. The dow organized that meeting and. It was just as dallas said approximately mostly men who had shown up Union Soldiers. Now in this meeting, dow organize it and again down on the right, he will be elected the captain of this club, the gentleman on the far left is Spencer Munson, and there he is. And his union uniform, Spencer Munson from mentor, ohio. And for a brief period of time later in his life, his next door neighbor was an ohio congressman by the name of James Garfield future president of the United States. If we move over to the the second from the top left, that is William Chamberlain william Bill Chamberlain. As he was known, he served in the 23rd ohio and. He served under the command of two future United States, rutherford b hayes, William Mckinley is, also known as being a he was a druggist and part of the firm of sanford, albert and chamberlains. All right. Maybe i got that backwards how the firm went. But sanford, alpers and chamberlains drug firm the gentlemen to his right. Third from the left is homer charles, who also a union officer. And a in the Revenue Service, which dow worked in the Revenue Service friend mason all. These connections through the masonry, through the union army, through their professional occupation in class. These gentlemen lower left that is Luther Stephen trowbridge, a Brigadier General in the United States army, the highest ranking officer among any of the baseball. Baseballs. But theres a common theme. These are officers, a squire, a sergeant munson was a Sergeant Chamberlain was a first lieutenant. Ill skip over to the gentleman on the third from the left. That is ac camp who also served in the union army, owned greystone mansion, the home of w w 80 today, was a member in the grant administration. Another connection republicans all of these unionists who were republicans highly unconditional unionist. I should go ahead and say who supported lincolns policies, not just preservation of union, but also. The outlier in this group. A gentleman on the far right on the bottom dal, that is john w paxton, who was a mason and the confederate on this team. He was a captain of the 19th tennessee. The paxton as they were known. And sort of when says is a clear distinction between union and confederates. He sort of neglects of his closest friends here who a confederate but for the most part these are Union Soldiers unions will be the future Republican Leaders of knoxville tennessee. They chose a baseball. Now this dowel would say in his 1921 article this was at that time, the present location of woodruffs store on gay street what is today . The 400th block of gay street finding a vacant land in knoxville was tough in the Business District. The only area left was todays 400 and and 300 blocks of gay street. The problem was the land was a dump. They knocked millions their trash there. It was overgrown had jumps, weeds and everything on this area and the mccanns owned it. And the mccanns were eager to sell it to Begin Development and the city march forward its Business District north to the railroad and dow and his close Charles Seymour a lawyer Real Estate Agent and close friend of the mcclung went to the mcclung family, the Charles Mcclung and frank mcclung, the two eldest in this family and they were the grandchildren of Charles Mcclung who basically out knoxville, tennessee and hence they got a lot of land as a result of that when they laid out the city in 1791, they got their blessing to play baseball, that they clear that land for a baseball ground play. But the clubs made one condition. They said when were ready to sell this, you know were were going to were going to sell this property and youll have to find somewhere else. And thats fine. And so dallas knoxvilles went quickly together to clear this land and prepare it for baseball. What about the other gentlemen, the socalled southern gentleman . The dow mentioned it didnt show up. There was a group of men who did not show up, who didnt want to play with dallas knoxvilles team. These men organized their own Baseball Club, called themselves the host and baseball, i gather they got the name possibly thinking about the flood. It just recently happened on the host river. Thats just my inference. There. And they put together a club now they chose as their captain Robert Armstrong and his brother Frank Armstrong played. And whats interesting about this team is whereas the knoxville boys are mostly union men, mostly from the north, gentlemen who had come into the at the end of American Civil War, i should go ahead and say not carpetbaggers that mythology of lost cause of carpet bagging northern yankees coming in exploiting the Natural Resources of the south here in knoxville were welcomed. You know they they looked on knoxville they had served here. If you read their letters, they talk about east being the most beautiful land theyve ever seen and east Tennessee Women being the most beautiful on gods green earth. And they came here eager, invited to come here, marry those southern daughters daughters. They were welcome because they had the energy and vision of a new south, they wanted to build. And yes, that meant to tap into our Natural Resources and wanted to diversify the souths economy, not just be an agricultural base to help east tennessee, tennessee grow and progress. They dont fit the carpetbagging mythology, the myth, because thats one thing they did. They did recognize smart things. Marrying southern daughters here, but also they didnt bring a radical social agenda. They did support emancipation. But these were more moderate who didnt necessary really advocate for greater civil and Political Rights for africanamericans having done that, they were suitable stock to stay. Now there were some radical republicans who showed up here got driven out real quick in knoxville, tennessee. But back to the whole and were these southern soldiers. They werent really southern soldiers. They came from southern sympathizers and families on part. These were very young men on average about 22 years of age. One player, 14, the knoxville. Knoxville is where an older that 25 and a half on average the whole distance were a mix. They had two Union Veterans and two confederate veterans and one of those Union Veterans was basically a medical cadet. He didnt see any action. And one of the confederate veterans was a courier who passed messages. These young men who were too young to fight. What i found in my research, what them was pilots like the knoxville knoxvilles republicans. These are democrats, the postcivil war period. They were a mix of southern sympathizers others who sympathized with the Confederate Army confederacy during the civil war. But there was also a bunch of unionists, conditional unionist from like as old as the williams the gentleman in the upper right photograph that is j. C. Williams, who comes from John Williams family. His dad was a close friend of president andrew johnson. Now, these gentlemen, were unionists of begin the civil war. They supported lincolns preservation of the union. But the moment emancipation got on the table, they were done. Didnt sign up for any social change. And so at the end of the civil war, these conditional unionists gravitated to the point that they were breaking bread with their initial former enemies. These rebels are sympathizers and these become democrats. And john c here is a prominent lawyer, defended the coal in the coal mine wars and a prominent role in a couple of democratic president ial administrations. Gentlemen, on the bottom is colonel william with his two year old pony. There are two month old pony there. William caswell was very wealthy gentleman. He was a confederate courier during the american. Hes the confederate courier that i mentioned. Gentlemen, in the upper left, thats samuel bell latrell. He was the mayor, james church on the trail, the mayor of knoxville during the american civil. This was his son. He a union captain during the American Civil War. But when he came back in the postcivil war period, the policies more radical in State Government from William Parks and brownlow drove latrell to the democratic by the mentioned his brother, who also played a james latrell junior. He a confederate officer during the American Civil War. So politic acts is what brings these together so were douses these are union confederate. Its not so much that its its the post war politics unite them knoxville knoxville to be in the republicans and the holdens the democrats. Where did these players play weve long know about dallas knoxville is playing on the gay street baseball grounds. This was sort of pathbreaking in this research. There have been mention that they played along. Jackson avenue, now is around railroads. Now, i cant say for certain exactly where the holsteins, but there was an 1895 article that i found. They mention Cripple Creek that is first creek. Cripple creek gets its name according to i believe i saw an article from Lucy Templeton many, many moons ago who said it had to do the bend in the in the creek is why called it Cripple Creek. It was area prone to flooding and it had flooded significantly and looking at the maps at this period of 1867 and looking at the maps trying to find vacant, the best guess i can get is where i sort of place that sort of burgundy looking baseball in a vacant area and first creek has changed its past since then since its 1867 map. But whats interesting is where that where they played it is quite possible they played on the very ground where randy boyd today is building the smokies that i guess will be the next smokies stadium that is interesting connection of knoxvilles baseball past bringing it back into the urban environs it and linking it with baseball today. That was an interesting find now again, i cant say exactly there, but they say its along the creek. So there will be possibly playing baseball on the very ground that the knoxville played, baseball in 1867. Now to wrap this up, i want to talk about some baseball, some of the story these of the early baseball games. We know that the first baseball game, based on whats Available Research is may the fourth, 1867, reported here on may 8th, 1867. The week now these games we get just little snippets there through the knoxville whig this is parson brown those paper hes more interested in political baseball is a novelty is interesting and my gosh who are these guys who want to be idle lazy on the weekends when they should be in church playing baseball and so Little Information but what we do get is during that first game in 1867, it was attended by hundreds of spectator ers, both men and women. And women play a part as spectators in this game. And it was believed by women being on the ball field that they would calm the men and that they would not get out of hand, not get competitive. And remember that they are gentlemen, first and foremost during that game, a brass band led the procession of these two teams, the knoxville knoxvilles and the holsteins, to the knoxville baseball grounds. And it is said by dow that they won that first game by 17. I cant confirm it from another source, but it does hold true that the knoxville prevailed in that first game and immediately was issued the next week for a game and that game the hosts won the second match. Now what i have found through the records, only four games that the holsteins and, the knoxvilles played and dow said they most holsteins won some my Research Shows the knoxvilles won just that first game you know the holsteins got better and better with each game and stomped the knoxvilles in the stay in the in the city championship in november. 1867 by a score of 9225 im sure of those 25 now got two or three home runs. Those injuries are such a lovely game. Baseball, lots of injuries a lot freak injuries. Our friend on the left, Spencer Munson, neighbor of James Garfield, he was playing in the outfield when the ball was hit deep. He caught it lovely catch. And as he was going to throw the ball into the infield, people, a bone snap, his elbow dislocated. I think adam playing vintage baseball i can maybe offer an explanation. They werent good on calisthenics and stretching and everything before. A game. I can see how such freak injuries have occurred, especially after having an arm and having a rotator cuff surgery a couple of years ago. I know my arm needs a lot of warm up before a game. These the two figures in the center in, the right, William Chamberlain and bill bell to trail in another game, Bill Chamberlain for the knoxvilles steps up to the plate hits a massive shot out to the outfield samuel bell to trail the mayor son gets under it hes ready to catch it loses in the sun. I can also attest to this happening and the ball just went right into his forehead and he dropped like beef on the ground unconscious and had to be carried from the field. Im saying baseball is temporarily tattooed foreheads at them. Adam, when he was practicing baseball before forming our team, went over to nashville or went over to here rowan state Community College and was in the game. I think he was pitching and the ball was delivered back right into his forehead. He showed up on a monday morning staff with it tattooed to forehead, still. There were these freak injuries occurred during 1867, these during these early. I do want to tell those hosts things got better with each game and i can attest to that is our vintage Baseball Team i think we lost our first five games until we really got our pace in that first season. And then we went on it. We went on a tear. The stands got better with each game they their opponents to less runs with each game and they became regarded as a powerhouse across the state in. The summer into the fall of 1867, the holsteins were challenged by the state champions of 1866, the Mountain City club of chattanooga let me say a quick word about. These were best of three series and they could be any moment two teams a great so although usually played by regard is the two better teams in the area but. The holsteins were challenged Mountain City because they had that sort of sense these holsteins were were probably the next team in the state they played a best of three series and the knoxville holsteins won in the third and final game to claim the series to be the state champions and brown those whig gave them three cheers and a tiger for the holston. The paper. Those things went on to defeat as i mentioned in that 9225 game, the knoxvilles the city championship and the host were riding high in 1867 and then they got too big for their trousers and they sent a challenge to Gate City Club of atlanta. Also a Gentlemen Club much like these amateur Baseball Teams, undefeated, a traveling team, i call them forerunners of the Cincinnati Red stockings. Although the Cincinnati Red stockings become professional, these are sort of that last hurrah of amateur great teams and against city clubs head will come up to knoxville play you guys thanksgiving day newspaperman colonel john fleming a baseball booster and newspapers are very important for boosting the game. So the reputation of the city is at stake on thanksgiving day this game is going to play. We expect a game, exciting game. We are not saying the proper way to pay respects to the National Holiday is to play baseball. But at the think so let them does give thanks. This game was a fiercely fought contest back and forth inning two inning reports are betting was occurring the game showing this game evolving rather quickly in knoxville to adopt some more unseemly characteristics of the game that was developing elsewhere as across the nation in the last sitting the hostess had the gate city just had to hold them off for the bottom of the ninth and the Gate City Club went on a run and won the game. What happened next is a source of contention between . The people of knoxville, tennessee and atlanta, georgia. In knoxville, tennessee they reported it was a wonderful after the game of huge banquet put on by knoxville miss judge blake baxters daughter julia baxter made a beautiful cake for the Gate City Club and they were happy. The festivities and big events like this were part of the after party. These games, these gentlemen came together and drank alcohol and had a lot of great desserts. They would report. Knoxville says it was a wonderful event and Gate City Club went on happy. But a few days later in atlanta, one of the gates City Club Members publicly denounce the knoxville hostesses as unseemly gentlemen who were bruised and battered after this and hurt feelings. And they had insulted them during this festivity knoxville is exchange back and forth between the captains of these two clubs and either side agree to disagree on what happened. In 1868. The whole stones began their title defense rather late in fact the club had just sort of gone on for the winter and to their occupations and john keeps writing in the paper. Wynn, the hostess, is going organize lets whats yours to finish champions finally in the late summer of 1868, they get a challenge a nashville Baseball Club and the holsteins are like now, were going to get together, get serious about baseball and Start Playing some scrimmages against boys, boys, teenage boys, even some boys under the age of 13 in the streets of knoxville on the host and ground as well, showing a baseball democratize quickly. People of ages were playing and white and black. There was three black Baseball Teams. This area. But in these matches the young boys beat the holsteins bad and john fleming was livid he in one of these after this holsteins had better hang their bats on a willow and if they feel that they must have exercised they could probably find some kind hearted farmer who will give them a job at husky corn and pay them with the shucks, which will be more than their services are worth. If they are no better at that, then that at playing belle ball, we will let them advertise for a job at half price. We would also like to help the afflicted, downtrodden and oppressed when our power to do so. Fleming could be biting in his and he took shots at sam dales knoxvilles all the time in the paper the hosts instantly got their act together, played the Nashville Club in the 1868 state championship. But in the best of three, the holsteins were defeated by the Nashville Club. And shortly after that the host and club disband. There are reports of another hosting club in the 1870 years playing. Its not the same team anymore. This team disbanded, the knoxville, stayed together for one more year. One last game on the gay street baseball in 1869. Tolbert herbert hall recollecting on this event this 1869 game. It was the bottom of the ninth. The knoxvilles down by one run to their rival the greenville city college club. Runner was on first the tying run. Sam dow comes to the plate. The pitcher throws the first three pitches to the wide of the plate. Dow is convinced this guy is intimidated by me. Hes going to throw it wide again. Im going to step into the box and im going to get that ball. And on that pitch was low, but dow got the end of his bat on it. And wouldnt you know, homerun he reported that ball rode all the way almost to the Railroad Tracks its a long. But by the time they got the ball back in dale had circled the bases and won the game. And that would be one of the last matches played the gay street baseball grounds because shortly thereafter offers were being made and mcclung was were selling lots on that property over in the far left you can see the first few buildings being built on what was the gay street baseball grounds and that building on the very edge, that kind of third building from the far was the sanford and alberts drugstore. To put a twist on the Joni Mitchell 1970 hit song, they paved paradise and put up a bunch of three and four story brick warehouses. Thank you. There are questions you can come up to microphone and ask your questions right. My shirt. Thank you. I thought was appropriate for the occasion. Indeed. As one researcher to another good job, im wondering. If youve run into a pitcher by the name rufus oliver moore. He was playing a little bit later probably the 1880s 1890s. The is have i run into a pitcher rufus oliver moore went by ali or all went by either ali or al pitching and maybe the 18 you said 1888 and 19 in 1880s and nineties. I have not. Now i have limited myself to the 1860s with these two Baseball Teams and what was going on at the time. However, theres another publication there that really this story of knoxville until, a story which is fills in whats going on with civil war baseball in the south. And there could be a i could come across it, but i have not i have not come across that player. I could throw it to the crowd and look to good friend, researcher mark averill. If you heard that name, no matter what he is that and that is why he is such a dependable. Im trying to track him down because he is the grandfather of the individual i think is probably the greatest baseball player to come from. Knoxville, tennessee doris sammy sams, who played eight years with the allamerican girls professional Baseball League, six time allstar, two time mvp, xolo and set the single season record for home runs at 12. Not particularly impressed to our contemporary times favorably compared to both ted williams and babe ruth. Yes, she was a pitcher first. When she quit pitching, started hitting over 300 and hitting home runs. Wow. So im a longtime knoxville person. I have heard about the ball field at woodruffs on the east side of on k street. I am just skeptical that there is enough level space there that they could play that game. So will you tell us about size of the field they were playing on that time . That field, it the question was about the skepticism of the gay street grounds and, the level of the field because anybody knows the knoxville and i joke it there is no level ground here. It falls off significantly. You go down toward state street and central and then towards what is first creek. It did create natural amphitheater feeling spectators and that was mentioned in articles i maybe thats how sam dale could get home runs in these big scores. So the would just roll on forever which makes sometimes play on baseball grounds on uneven ground. A lot of fun with the bounces the balls will take. But looking at maps looking at newspaper. Well into the late 19 Century Stores that say opposite of the baseball grounds you find those stores on the west side of the 400 block of and 300 block of gay street. So theres a lot of corroborating sources that puts it right there in that spot. And looking at birdseye map of 1871 in knoxville, which is available in the museum shop, is you can see that there is some starting to be some buildings in some houses. But all that developed post 1871 when they started laying the street all the way up, what was mayberry street, which would be about generally, i guess, close to where some it is now or thereabouts so that ground was opened. Now, there is an interesting newspaper article in the summer of 1867 where joseph star billiards, which was the meeting of the of the knoxville knoxvilles and became a hangout for both clubs when they had their meetings he offered a special cigar box. And i think adam and i had conversations about this wed love to find this cigar box this cigar box an image on the top of of a baseball game and supposedly it shows a homerun being hit over a shot. Im forget his first name right now. Shropshires house, which was located on the gay street baseball grounds. So apparently at some point, his house located within the the ability a baseball homerun to go over the roof and on the box the mayor of knoxville, james church, will luttrell, was featured. I dont know if he was the one who was hitting the home run or not, but it does. Theres just a lot of corroborating sources on that. Thats where they were. They played. Im not doubting the woodruff location. What im curious about 90 foot base parents were foot base beds. I mean it had to be a smaller field than were playing on the day. What field do you guys play on . Well, they were playing on 90 feet, 90, 90 feet at that point. Yeah now, the question is, was he said home home plate was at where woodruffs was located is thats exact. We dont know exactly. But that lot is sources will point to it that they there but yeah they played 93 base past the pitcher 60 feet no was 4045 feet or so from home plate but the dimensions are there. Yeah. So the pitchers a little closer than today. Oh yeah. A little bit closer. Adam can attest to that. Thank you. Thank i can attest to i mean, i pitcher in our last game and i think well that six balls ended up pelting but you know i put my body on the line stop the ball. Yes. Got a question for him. Let me preface my question first by talking about a project doing to honor integrated baseball play on and field back in the thirties and forties. If you go down to emmas southern kitchen restaurant, you can see some banners we put up in your research. Was there an opportunity for any black to play in those games at that time . A very great question. And this will be this is in my article. The question is, in any of these early games, there any opportunities for africanamerican baseball to play . They appealed to play. There at least three teams in the area. And in 1867, city championship played in november of 1867. They appealed to play and. They were rejected. So the game that these gentlemen played was a very segregated game. Yeah. Among these gentlemen, what my research has found, it brought the pine gap neighborhood together. It was common a sunday afternoon to see black and white fandom, shared a picnic lunch and watch a very diverse games being played and everything. But i appreciate your efforts. Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. Just a comment on the existence of black clubs there. Black clubs, at least in the seventies, going forward, playing in nashville, i dont know if youve run into them there. There was one club that i know were still trying to figure out who they were and they were playing their manager or player was a josef a mabry, a colored man not the man from the house, but i know patricks been trying to track him down for some time. They were playing early as 1871. Yeah. And a mention there about africanamerican teams playing the 1870s and mabry and one of the images i had about it mention is the hazing attributed to that family was it was a very start player for the whole science. But i will say this one thing about i want to add what women women are playing baseball this time as well. But the first report that i have found and ive done a little bit digging outside of the 1860s, is there was an article in 1884 where a womens Baseball Club to come to knoxville, and theyre asking would there be anybody to play us. And unfortunately no one would agree to play them. But, you know, it just is i cannot figure out where they were located. The article say if they were a tennessee, i would love to know that information. But their women were actively playing baseball. Someone online ask about where they could experience a vintage baseball game to see what the question is. Can someone experience a vintage baseball game . We play as part of the Tennessee Association of vintage baseball and as members of the knoxville hosting. And there is another team, emmitt machine is who were a team that also played 1867 which further democratized as is the game because these were machinists laborers that worked along the railroad lines. It played the holsteins in 1867, on july fourth Independence Day you can you can watch these games out of the historic ramsey house. One of the things about Tennessee Association of baseball, when an education is a important core part of our mission and important part is playing at historic sites. And for us, weve had the benefit of playing the historic ramsey house usually play out there on saturdays. Ten or so times a year, and you can find that information at the Tennessee Association of vintage baseball website. And going on the historic ramsey house as well well. All right, i think thank you all so much. Attending the state