Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing 20240703

I am happy to be with my colleagues. I think it is an encouraging atmosphere, i noticed it yesterday on the floor, and again today. We did a lot of good work before the recess. Got plenty of work still to do. I am delighted to kick it off with this hearing. In march our Committee Held its first oversight hearing on the bipartisan infrastructure laws, Drinking Water and wastewater provisions. Today we will expand upon those after focusing on the laws on Drinking Water. Nearly two years after becoming law, bipartisan infrastructure law is helping to help make is helping to make clean water a reality for communities, schools and childcare facilities. As the benefits of this law continue to become a reality in morecambe committees across america, our committee is anxious to hear from stakeholders about how you believe this work is progressing. And if we can make any improvements. Mike rawlings heard me say my colleagues heard me say anything i can do we know we can do better. Investing in our nations Water Infrastructure is deeply personal to me. Growing up in West Virginia and virginia, my sister and i lived near rivers and streams like beavercreek 100 feet from our house. Just outside of beckley was a stream contaminated by septics and tanks. About a two hour drive south of the Cuyahoga River. In pennsylvania i was reading on the news that the coyote of the Cuyahoga River caught fire. The question is what we are going to do about it. Both of those experiences ingrained in me the importance of water in our daily lives. From protecting our beaches and wetlands to maintaining Service Lines, clean water is cortical to our nations economy. As many of us know, matthew 25 calls on us to care for those who are in need. Including giving those who are thirsty something to drink. I believe that includes a moral obligation to ensure that all americans have access to clean, safe and reliable water services. Fortunately i am not alone in that belief. Shortly after taking office, President Biden invited me and others to the oval office. He tasked us with a leading the charge on updating of federal Infrastructure Investments, including our highways, bridges and Water Systems. We rolled up our sleeves. We got to work after that meeting. We and our staffs worked together to draft the Drinking Water and wasteWater Infrastructure act. We invention this Bipartisan Legislation after our committee unanimously and posted it by an 892 vote. I will never forget that day. An 892 vote on some thing that came right through our committee and something we are normatively proud of. Are enormously proud of. The bipartisan infrastructure law present biden signed into law in november 2021, a day many of us will long remember. Today the bipartisan infrastructure law is the single largest water infra structure investment in our nations history. Through that law, congress is investing in an unprecedented 55 billion to improve Drinking Water and wasteWater Systems, including replacing lead Service Lines and addressing emerging contaminants. And it was fully paid for. Still, there is more than needs to be done. And what can be done . My hope is todays hearing will allow us to gain a deeper understanding of how the implementation of those historic funds is going. Our hearing also presents us with the chance to explore future opportunities to improve our Drinking Water infrastructure, and to make sure that the bipartisan infrastructure laws programs are benefiting communities with the greatest need too. While im excited to hear from all over witnesses, i want to take a moment to welcome back Keisha Powell to the committee. Ms. Powell testified before the committee in 2021 when we were drafting the water portion of the bipartisan infrastructure law. Her testimony was instrumental in moving that package forward and we look forward to hearing your perspective on the implementation today. As i mentioned, it is not a first hearing on examining our nations Water Infrastructure needs. It wont be the last either. Earlier this year we had a hearing with the epa System Administrator and other stakeholders to discuss some of these programs. Just this past may, senator padilla and others also held a water affordability hearing at the subcommittee level. While looking at low income Water Assistance Programs and what additional authorities or changes might be necessary to make those programs function even better. Later this month, that same subcommittee will be reviewing tribal water needs. I hope this series of hearings will help us and inform us of what we can do to ensure that these programs continue to work even better as we face changes in our climate, our population and infrastructure needs. With that, i am grateful to gree t our panel of witnesses. We look forward to hearing from you today as you represent state perspectives, city Water Utilities and rural water. Before that we will hear from the Ranking Member. You are recognized. Thank you, chairman carper. Hope you had a nice break in the beautiful state of delaware. This is a great opportunity for the committee to get an update from stakeholders on the progress, as the chairman has lined out explicitly, on what was enacted in the bipartisan infrastructure jobs act. It is nice to see you back in front of the committee. Todays hearing will focus on the critical importance of clean and efficient Drinking Water and wastewater symptoms and wasteWater Systems. It is vital that all americans have access to reliable water and sanitation that they can afford. The Drinking Water and wasteWater Infrastructure act authored by this committee is a critical component of the Infrastructure Investment and jobs act. It introduced new programs to meet the current needs and challenges in small, rural and disaffected communities. During this hearing we will hear the challenges we face in safeguarding our communities, the failure of and for mentation of policies from the iija, which was meant to ensure every individual has access to clean and healthy Drinking Water and wastewater, and how other federal policies may be helping or hindering efforts for communities to provide for the residents. The iija authorized 55 billion in funding for a variety of Water Infrastructure programs. These programs aim to address the issues faced by our nations Water Infrastructure, including grants for small and disadvantaged communities, funding for lead Service Line Replacement and support for innovative water technologies. The iija recognizes many committees are struggling with aging infrastructure and emerging contaminants. Small, rural and disadvantaged committees often lack the resources and expertise to tackle these challenges, leaving them vulnerable to Water Quality issues and Public Health risks. The iija offers funding opportunities for grants, lowinterest loans, and Technical Assistance to ease some of these burdens. As we work to implement and secure funding for these programs, its crucial to ensure resources are directed toward the communities most in need based on actual Public Health and environmental risks. The federal government must also provide the necessary Technical Assistance and training to support these programs. Many of our smoke amenities do not have the technical expertise. Our small communities do not have the technical expertise. I have concerns regarding the epa implement and directives from congress as it devotes substantial investments to our nations Water Infrastructure. The epa has repeatedly tried to impose its policies on states and communities, often in violation of the Authority Given to them by the safe water and dragging safe Drinking Water act. Obstacles imposed by federal regulators are especially inappropriate when elevated inflation eats away at historic Infrastructure Investment that America Needs and that were demanded of congress. Additional threats to reliability and affordability may come from other environmental regulations. In particular, failure to provide Liability Protections for Water Systems facing contamination will slam and Water Systems slam our Water Systems and only enrich trial attorneys. West virginia had to deal with pfas kim and nation pfas contamination. The concept of polluter pays has had broad bipartisan support over the years. That is why i find it truly perplexing to hear that environmental groups are actively lobbying against protection for Water Systems and other passive receivers. With pfas contamination going back decades and regulatory efforts to protect our Drinking Water, which i support, there will be an increasing need to support to protect our water system that had no hand in creating these chemicals. As we look to preserve safety and affordability of drinking and wasteWater Systems for the future, and maximize the benefits of the iijas investment, protecting passive receivers is Something Congress must get right. I will close by saying everyone in attendance already knows Water Infrastructure investments are critical to Public Health, Environment Health and economic develop. The successes we have had today have been based in cooperative federalism and enshrined in the safe Drinking Water and clean water acts. Communities and states know their needs the best and need a helping hand from the government, but not a heavy hand. Thank you for all you do to keep our countrys water and wasteWater Systems clean and healthy. I look forward to hearing your perspectives on these issues. Sen. Carper thank you for those words and the opportunity to continue our important and wonderful efforts in this committee on this front. I will introduce the secretary. I think senator cramer and will introduce eric. The secretary of the North Carolina department of environment equality. My wife sends her best. She is in North Carolina. The position you hold is a position i think you held since Governor Cooper appointed you to that leadership role about two or three years ago. This is your second tour of duty at the agency, having previously served as the departments director of legislative and intergovernmental affairs. In august of 2023, ms. Biser was elected to serve as president of the Environmental Council of s tate, a National Nonprofit association, Agency Leaders working to improve the capability of the states environmental agencies. Thank you for joining us today. Please proceed. Before you do, maybe i should introduce the other two witnesses. No no, we will hold off. You go ahead and we will let ben introduce ms. Powell. Thank you, senator carper, members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to be with you today and talk about the Infrastructure Investment and jobs act and the transformative investment it has helped enable in North Carolinas Water Infrastructure. One of North Carolinas Top Priorities is ensuring that everyone in our state has access to clean Drinking Water and reliable Water Infrastructure. Because without that, nothing else matters. I want to start by sharing with you a story about the community in North Carolina. The residents have been fighting for decades for the chance to connect the Public Water System. Governor cooper and i had an opportunity to hear from these residents about what it was like, knowing that when they washed white clothes, it would come out brown stained from well water, and when it got cold the pumps would go out. In 2022, thanks to federal funding, we awarded a 13. 2 million grant to run 40 miles of water lines to connect 350 homes in ivanhoe to the county water system for the first time. Other systems in our state are facing failing infrastructure, pumping stations that are being inundated as we have more frequent and more severe storm events. Even in liberty, North Carolina, they have orangeburg lines. It is wood pulp filled with tar. They are literally disintegrating in the ground. It is vital that we confront each of the needs to improve the resiliency of our system and to protect the health of our residents. I will add North Carolina had a head start on handling large sums of Water Infrastructure dollars. Our state leaders chose to allocate a significant portion of our American Rescue plan dollars to Water Infrastructure. It was 9. 1 billion. The first thing we did was evaluate our processes. Its easy to spend money but the challenge is investing it well. In order to ensure the record amount of funding we received reached communities like ivanhoe, we reimagined our grantmaking process. We canvassed every county Health Department in the state to identify where we had communities who did not have reliable access to clean Drinking Water or sewer services. We conducted outreach to nearby utilities to ensure they knew about these committees and encouraged them to do projects to connect these folks. We wanted to make sure it was not just the wellfunded biggest utilities ready to go, that we gave everyone in North Carolina an opportunity to benefit from these dollars. The changes are resulting in so far more than 2000 homes slated to be connected to public water for the first time. North carolina also has significant levels of pfas contamination, which has affected rural and urban areas alike. We especially worry about the burden on our small towns who cannot afford to shoulder the additional costs associated with treatment without outside help. The epa administrator and a fellow north carolinian came to a small town that discovered high levels of pfas contamination which was likely the result of firefighting foam. To announce iija funding for communities to illustrate the type of community that was intended to help. While a facility in North Carolina gave us early experience in dealing with forever chemicals, when a pfas chemical known as gen x was discovered in a river in 2017, we recognize pfas is larger than one company or one chemical. Deq has been working with public Water Systems to assess pfas levels and help prepare for the Upcoming National Drinking Water standards. We identified 43 of our municipal and county Drinking Water systems that serve 3 Million People that will need to take action to come to compliance and protect public. We are learning from and working with the public Water Systems that have already addressed pfas in our state. I will give you an exhibit of the Cape Fear Public Utility Authority you spent 43 million who spent 43 million on a carbon filtration system to treat pfas coming from the cape fear river. We know the testing and planning and design work has to take place before you are ready to construct a treatment system. This work can take a year to do. To help other utilities prepare, we are making a significant portion of the early rounds of early contaminant funding from iija available for planning grants to help these systems identify and design the best treatment system for their situation. We appreciate the 23 million per year over five years that North Carolina is receiving for emerging contaminants through iija, but this shows how much we will need. What we were getting so far is just scratching the surface of the needs of North Carolina. We estimate that just for our state it will take between 661 million and 1. 3 billion to install Treatment Technology at the 43 municipal and county Water Systems. That number does not take into account the number of small Water Systems which we are currently testing. All of this is on top of our normal Water Infrastructure needs because we have not invested for far too long the billions of dollars we need over the next two years. This reinforces the importance of iija and this committees work and the state revolving funds. I recognize this as a policy and not the appropriations committee, but as the newly elected president of the Environmental Council states, i would like to bring the committees attention to the longterm threats being posed to the state revolving funds by the fy24 appropriation bills. We are concerned about these developments of using congressionally directed spending out of the corpus of the funds. The proposed cuts would be devastating to the states capacity to meet current and growing environment on needs and what harm the partnership and would harm the partnership to protect health throughout the country. Using supplemental appropriations in the iija to offset cuts in the annual federal funding undermines the historic opportunity provided by this landmark legislation which was intended to extend financing for water entry structure to more committees. This is not to take our foot off the accelerator. North carolina will never stop working to ensure all residents have access to clean and reliable Water Infrastructure. I appreciate this committees commitment to that same goal. Thank you for allowing me to be here today. Sen. Carper since your selection as president of ecos, do you be prepared you prefer to be called president or madam secretary . Secretary is fine, thank you. You can introduce your and i thank her for her willingness to serve on the task force and thank you for being with us today. You are recognized. Thank you senator cardin and born, raised and educated in the city of baltimore. Thank you senators for the invitation to testify before you today. The general manager and c. E. O. Of water koa. And chair. The water has the honor is she here . She couldnt be here today. Im happy to report that we see progress. Overall we have received a total dollars because of the increased of clean Drinking Water funding with over 30 given in loan for giveness. It will receive just over 105 million from the state revolving funds. And the bioenergy project and sanitary and thank you for your support and leadership for advancing these. And historic decreases in federal climate and cyberthreats and addressing widens the funding gap. One of the most urgent issues is p fmp as and threatening waters emission to protect Public Health and maintain our track record. And we must hold the polluters financially responsible and not leave our customers to shoulder this burden. These factors have led to increasingly unaffordable water bills. According to the department ofhealth and human services, water is the Fastest Growing utility cost and the Congressional Budget Office 90 of Water Infrastructure is funded locally much higher than other types like roads and transit. I thank this committee for authorizing the water at the epa and providing 1. 1 billion in various packages for a program at h. H. S. Since 2020. We were able to provide 10 million in Financial Assistance and 4 million from the lowincome Water Assistance Program to assist. The eep program has never been funded and will soon expire without ending this critical lifeline. We must fund access to water and equally critical resource. On behalf of us, i thank Committee Members for your support and pledge to work with you the water sector challenges in years to come to create jobs, enhance Economic Growth safe guard our environment. This concludes my testimony. I will be happy to answer any questions. Thank you your testimony. And again before senator cramer introduces a witness, i want to say my colleague, back on the campus of the university of delaware last month and had an opportunity to speak and spoke to members on the campus about the intersection between if i had policy at the university of delaware and talked about sports and the upcoming football season and. [indiscernible] we also serves on several boards the north Dakota Water Coalition and past chair of the American Water works association. And i dont know what he does in his spare time and he is a twotime member of the hall of fame. And but actually resource to me and my staff. Thanks for the introduction. Please proceed. Good morning. My name is eric voalz and executive director. The association was established in 1974 and provides assistance, training and advocacy in rural water. A huge thanks goes to my staff that provides access to quality water. In 2022 we associated with the league of our cities to survie our water supply needs the need of 2. 1 billion in the 20 year need of north dakotas Drinking Program shows the need of 1. 1 billion op demands on the clean water side are similar. Huge needs on a state that has 280 residents. There are several Water Systems, engineers and to develop or projects are completed. We are appreciated of the investments being made to help our sit science. A key factor is labor which is required reductions in the number of crews they can limit. And a large amount of funding available for all infrastructure. Sore contractors are not as hungry as they were before. The cost of pipe is increasing. Since 2019, and increased and the cost of installing fire hydrants 135 people has more than doubled now more than 15 howrks. Various valves, drives and generators have long wait times. One system has been waiting a year and a half. And improving slowly. American manufacturers have been required to expand their and driven down lead times. Overall the cost of completing projects is increasing and hard for small systems to plan for to incleed them. Another important aspect is the multiple assistance provisions include i by to help communities and technical capacity. Rural water is proud to be the resource for small, rural, disadvantaged and tribal communities to comply with epa regulations and and funding for safely operating our utilities. The Regulatory Burden surrounding pfas is and supportive of the Liability Protection act. This legislation alliance with the goals to eliminate pfas by the principle for cleanups under the superfund law. The water sector is with 50 of our water workers estimated to leave the next 10 years. And Ranking Member capito, real water has accomplished a program. As of this year, 36 water associations have completed the process of obtaining apprenticeships programs. And over 60 apprenticees thank you mr. Chairman for giving me the opportunity to share real water perspective and we appreciate you in craftic policies. Thank you and thanks to all of you for your testimony. And leadoff the questions and senator capito. I may have to slip out a few minutes. As i mentioned in my opening staple. The poip infrastructure law provided more than 55 billion for Drinking Water and waste water improvements which is in addition to significant investments congress has made through the American Rescue plan. This was a downpayment and continued need is needed now. Epa released the Infrastructure Survey and assessment and 20year Drinking Water is 625 billion, that is 625 billion with a b. My question is a question for each of you, the question, i will start off please share with us, if you would, some of your beliefs with respect to the bipartisan infrastructure you are experiencing with respect to the bipartisan infrastructure laws funding and what you have been able to achieve in North Carolina and the financial gap that remains in your efforts to address and have spoken to this. Repetition is a good thing. Thank you for that question. One of the things we think about in North Carolina, people dont think about Water Infrastructure and when they turn on their water and dont have clean water or boil water or cant flush a toilet. As a result, we have underinvested for decades in our system. So this piece of legislation has provided a huge shot in the arm for us. You mentioned the eep needs a survey hundreds of billions of dollars in Additional Needs that is true in North Carolina. We have a study in the process of updating because it doesnt take into account and 1726 billion just for our basic Water Infrastructure. That is not including looking at the needs associated with upgrading our Drinking Water to deal with pfas. And that is quite significant. And we were only able in 2023 to find 9 of the 2. 6 billion that have been requested by our local utilities and that number has been held steady. We have had a record investment. 1 billion from the rescue plan from the funding we are getting and working hard to making sure that funding is reaching every funding that needs it in the state and not just rewarding those first in line but making sure we have local assistance. We have small and poor communities and we want to make sure that funding is reaching those communities as well. Senator carper and you said that is a lot. Ms. Powell, the same question. Certainly, our experience in working with stakeholders to make sure we got off to a good start to implement the infrastructure law has been a positive one. We understand there had to be guyedance provided up front for implementation and for the state of maryland, they took some time to update their definition of disadvantaged communities to make sure that funding is going to support communities across the state. We are starting to share funding from igaa and seeing some principal for giveness. But what we heard about in the hearing before, we need to see more funding in grants. Many communities cannot afford loans and we are constrained as well. And counts against the debt that we are taking out for our capital programs so there is a funding gap there. We submitted a list of requests and projected to receive 105 million. We are still shy of the need. I think it has been very good that we have been able to assist customers that need assistance getting their bills back in Good Standing. But those impacts listed before the pandemic and continue to persist. The last thing ill stress if i could, we talk about investment infrastructure. We cant forget about the people that run the facilities and physical the pipes. We have to invest in work force. Senator carper thank you for those words. Our group has been working very hard to navigate through the new rules and regulations to get the money out visiting with them in the last couple of weeks. Giving money out to all sorts of systems and those systems both on the clean water side and Drinking Water side from our very small up to our Largest Community in fargo. Senator capito there are lots going on and yield my first opportunity to senator boozman. Senator boozman i have to go into a farm bill important to you and i think to the witnesses. But i wanted to ask one question, regarding as Ranking Member on agriculture to you, i understand how critical it is to protect farm i. R. S. , ranchers and others not directly responsible for pfas from being appropriationly being held liable or subject to sweeping action that could wreak havoc on their ability to. And senatorial leum asis giving them assurance they wouldnt be pfas liability and rules to be finalizedded. And talk about providing farmers, ranchers and Water Utilities with the certainty. Thank you for that question. One of the things we did in North Carolina. Pfs is different. And it is called a chemical and stays in the region. And what we are doing is reviewing our rules and regulations to make sure we got commonsense measures that we are protecting the environment in that context and as you pointed out, i think it is a good and worthy conversation to have to make sure that we are looking where to appropriately draw those lines and pfas is operating differently. Senator boozman if they did go down to farmers, ranchers, Water Utilities, what effect would have that on North Carolina . I think about our farmers and public Water Systems. One of the main areas, ratepayers are paying for treatment costs to make sure their water meets safe for Public Health. I would hate to see ratepayers on the hook twice. Thank you for your question. Senator boozman thank you very much. Senator capito senator cardin. Mr. Cardenas a couple of years ago i was invited by a city councilman and trying to get Political Support for him but there is an opportunity to do grassroots politics. Every house where we knocked on the door, the question they raised were water prices and the affordability of water from our public utility. And you mentioned that in your testimony. And obviously and secretary, you are right, there is a tremendous shortage in the modernization and replacement of our Water Infrastructure and the pressure on our ratepayers make it impossible on the ratepayers that make it necessary but we are stuck with the sirgses where the rates are too high. We have the Liheap Program and you mentioned in your testimony that you used the koa individual relief funds and the bill contained a provision that i sponsored with senator wicker and senator stabenow to develop a Pilot Program on affordability with those who cannot afford it. Can you detail on the need for affordability as to the customers in your region strug gling to pay their current water bills as opposed to additional responsibility and the challenges that you have mentioned. Yes, sir, thank you for the question and thank you for your leadership on this issue as well. Since the start of the pandemic, we have applied over 10 million in Financial Assistance to 5500 customers through a variety of federal and statefunding resources 3. 75 million which has helped over 4,000 customers. The federal lowincome Water Assistance Program has been another opportunity for us to assist customers that have had needs and as i said, those needs existed before the pandemic because rates have been increasing and will continue to persist after. Right now we have over 90,000 customers that are behind on their water bills, leaving more than 51 million in arrears. And cant get the funding because we are notforprofit and we look to raise rates. And having a permanent lowincome Water Assistance Program is another way of providing the way to help customers with the rising cost of water and sewer bills because our costs to maintain the infrastructure we have. And new regulations that require us to invest billions of dollars will add to that financial burden. You mentioned the concerns on the ratepayers in North Carolina, do you have concern about that in your state . We want to make sure that water is affordable in the context of pfas. Their customers are paying extra 70 per year to pay for that treatment system. We are thinking about this all the time and make sure that everybody is at the table to help so the ratepayers dont shoulder the entire burden. And thank you for the baltimore system. This is a model governance and worked well in the suburb counties. It is well supported andred by all the jurisdictions. The baltimore system is one that is based upon the citys management which has been earl goes back 100 years. We have Serious Problems and i hope you can add expertise to have a structure to provide the needs for the customers that depend on the baltimore water authority. Yes, sir. I am looking forward to lending my expertise and the entire task force to ensure that the city of baltimore has the infrastructure for the water and waste water which is a regional utility. I started my Public Sector career as the head of bureau and i know the operation well and i know the challenges and those have become difficult over time and i do see that the city of baltimore is now starting to receive funding from igaa and i hope the work we do hopes to inform how those funds should be spent going this is for all td im going to start with you, mr. Volk. Im going to go back to the p foss issue. Circle liability creates a significant issue for passive receivers. You did not create it but it comes into your system. Often you are required to treat pfas due to regulations. Water is vulnerable due to the role of receiving and filtering pfas. I believe North Carolina, 43 systems installed, current systems. Treatment technologies to remove it and it gets in granulated carbon filters but it has to be transported and disposed of as you put new filters in. WasteWater Utilities must contend with industrial and residential contributors of pfas upstream. My questions are can you elaborate on the risks and costs associated with transporting and disposing of pfas contaminated materials and a circle liability impact to your ability to manage these byproducts effectively without fear of severe legal challenges . If the epa is requiring you to provide pfas free wastewater and drinking, are you caught between a rock and a hard place . Mr. Volk greatmr. Volk questions. A lot of these are on the minds not only the small overall systems of north dakota but across the nation. There are a lot of unknowns especially in our state with what the extent of the pfas is and if you find it, what you do with it and if youre told you need to dispose of it, where do i dispose of it . How much is it going to cost . Who is going to pay for it . If it is the ratepayer like we have talked, we are already strapped razor thin budgets. That is where being exempt from the liability would be an extreme help to Water Systems. The passive receiver. They did not profit from the pfas but now they are responsible for that exactly. Have you tested your Water Systems in North Carolina . Mr. Volk they have done a couple years of testing. We have been lucky it has come back with very few positives across the state. Would you respond to that . I would like to reinforce it please. Ms. Powell yes. I mentioned it in my statement we have been we initiated looking at alternatives to deal with pfas in Drinking Water. While we have done voluntary testing and it shows our levels are low and we would be under the mcl that has been proposed by epa, we have seen an anomaly in the data that shows a spike that could mean we are out of compliance in the future. That is why i mentioned financial compliance and operational risks associated with not only Drinking Water but also wastewater. We have to understand what will happen they are and bio solids. On the Drinking Water side, our estimates are upwards of a billion dollars to be able to address pfas in Drinking Water and just in terms of biosolids, the piscataway bioenergy facility project where we have received funding from the state, that project is upwards of 270 million dollars, the single largest investment we have made as a utility. Where we have received funding, upwards of 270 million, the single largest investment that we have made as a utility, and its supposed to be a positive one to take our i o solids to a class a to allow us to better manage biosolids. That investment stands to be threatened. Should we have to address pfas and biosolids. Its important that they have the protections from liability. You have some experience with this, obviously with some of your systems already doing the current filters. What kind of liability issues are they having or would they have if we can exempt them from transporting and trying to destroy, and managing once you catch it, it doesnt go away, what are you going to do with it . Thank you so much for the question. You know, there are two smaller systems that we have, one is a reverse osmosis system, radioactive carbon system, with the carbon system, one of the things we worry about is air transport of pfas as well, and as it gets refreshed and heated up, theres a lot we still need to learn about putting it back into the air where it continues a cycle. So i think there are its pointing to a need to tackle those issues. Again its a worthy conversation to have, to take a look at all the case law, everyone around the table saying, what are the unintended consequences so we dont ever burden our repairs. Senator murphy. Thank you very much, madam chairman and welcome to you all. I want to direct my questions to mr. Volk because i have two pollution problems that i want to address. One is in burrell county and for decades people have had an accelerated level of nitrates in their water to work its way above safety of the are experiencing all kinds of health problems. They are adjacent to an area that does have a Public Water System. The 35 billion that we have directed, wouldnt that be appropriate money to be spent to connect these folks to a Public Water System thats free of nitrates, isnt that kind of the purpose . Yes, senator, i believe that those would be you know, questions to ask your department of Environmental Quality but definitely could be part of the supplemental funding, you know, thats just extra, additional funding and there were additional subsidies that could be used there. But it could be something to get those users on a reliable quality source of water. Isnt that kind of the core purpose, why is this senator, definitely, definitely, it would be up to each state to divvy up that money how they see fit. I want to turn to another challenge in court county. We had in 2022, a whole bunch of residents who have a high level of manganese that has appeared in their water. Now canada, has a limit of 120 micrograms and the world health organization, 80 micrograms, epa is at 300 micrograms. And the estimate for the impact on memory and attention to motor skills in children when theres 120 to 400 micrograms, and 10 of the 13 nearby family wells have tested over the epa 300 level and one well tested over 1000 micrograms. And so people are incredibly worried about their health. The cops are dying, a Record Number of cows are dead, same story at brian celtics place, a farmer, and really, says it just checked my backside that goliath could get away with running over everybody else and the goliath in this case is a gravel pit that opened nearby. In this case, there is no Public Water System nearby to tap in. What can these funds do to help our Rural Farmers and families that are being impacted in such a fashion . Senator, i can only tell you what weve done in north dakota over the last 50 years. We have a Great Network of rural regional systems that would provide water to the farmer. And i know manganese is an issue and we been able to use the funding through the emerging contaminant section, thats eligible use and thats 100 subsidy, so if they were able to hook up to a regional supplier, that would be an option for those rural residents and farmers. You are talking about piped water, right . What if people are too far away from a pipe system to make that feasible, are there other things that these funds can do . Senator, i am not exactly sure, i would have to get back to you on that. Madam chair, i just want to provide for the record, several articles about the nitrates in burrell county and the challenge with manganese, and crook county, these two instances are examples of the sorts of challenges that people face, and it isnt just the farmers and ranchers, the families Water Systems that is, their pipes, filters, water heaters, their toilets are filling up with lax sludge, massive corrosion of their pipes, they cant sell their homes, they are afraid to raise their children but they cant afford to move. It seems like these are exactly the sorts of things that we were trying to provide funds for to assist and i asked to find a way to help these communities out. Without objection we will say those on the record. Senator kramer . Thank you madam chair and again, thanks to all of her witnesses for being here, eric, thank you for your expertise i will get to one of the process issues, in some respects, senator merkleys questions are about the program in general, and how states can use the various stacks in the appropriate ways. One of the areas with regard to the state involving the bigger system is the area for rural people like me and by the way, this applies not just to water but certainly to the highway, and that is, to have a formula that consistently recognizes rural states and the unique needs of rural states and we dont have a formula that simply sends all the money to the Large Population centers. Obviously we are talking about a multiple use system that connects and i appreciate your illustration with regard to the regional systems in north dakota that work together. Could you speak to the importance of the formula piece of this because the formula is often challenged when its time to reevaluate and reauthorize the programs. If we could speak to that and then you said something in your Opening Statement that i would like you to speak more to and that is the Technical Assistance piece. In all my years in congress, whenever this came up, the thing i hear the most from the rural systems is the value of Technical Assistance how, if you even know how to apply for a grant, it helps perhaps, get the grant. Thank you, senator kramer. Definitely, on the formula and coming from a small state, we would love any changes or anything that you know, wouldnt harm small states with limited populations, just because we dont have the residence, doesnt mean we dont have problems, we have our unique problems whether its miles of pipe between rural customers, and extremely short construction season, im looking forward to getting back to our Cool Temperatures then with the Technical Assistance, thats the heart of the association. Weve been around since 1974, helping when they were first starting the rural systems in the state and morphed into trading and Financial Assistance to all the wasteWater Systems in the state, where my staff is going in their day in and day out, helping with finding leaks, fixing things, helping them fill out loan applications, helping them connect to the funding sources, helping them hire an engineer if they dont have that in some of the small systems, you even have you know, parttime staff or volunteers, so the Technical Assistance to us, its the boots on the ground we live in the communities in the state, and we are not there one day and never to be seen again. We are there for the long haul. The Technical Assistance, i still sort of marvel about this 11 for professionals with over 300 systems, and i think what you just described is a way that you maximize those resources. But that doesnt change the fact that there is a workforce challenge, theres one in every industry. Space force is doing well, i guess, but theres a serious workforce problem in this country but i think when you said that you expect Something Like 50 of the workforce in your industry will be leaving within 10 years, what are you all doing, ill start with you and each of you can answer but what is the plan . How do we deal with this or do we just recruit more humans . Part of that, senator the problem we are trying to address is with our Apprenticeship Program, so with National Rural waters help, we have the standard set up and theres 36 states and north dakota is one of them. We are relatively new in the process of apprenticeship. We have a Workforce Development coordinator. He has helped to navigate through all the rules and regulations of the Apprenticeship Program, just trying to you know, change the narrative in our business where in small town north dakota, if your operator leaves whos the next person up its a vicious cycle, we are trying to change the narrative and change the culture. Its a true profession. We are just working hard to use the Apprenticeship Program to get the next generation of workers. Right now it looks like senator mullen will succeed you and senator padilla. Please proceed. Mr. Volk, the law provides 49 for additional subsidization. Is that customarily treated as a cap . The 49 is the cap, i believe, and i know weve had some discussions with, you know, is that enough. Assuming its a cap, what effect does it have on the communitys not afraid not able to afford the match in able to match these iija funds. We are struggling with that in north dakota with getting the lead finding out where 49 subsidization, 51 would go on to the customer and most of the lead is going to be in your older neighborhoods, your disadvantage communities, so we are really struggling with getting that and finding a balance with affordability. Miss powell, and rhode island, we are seeing a lot of damage to our Water Treatment infrastructure related to Climate Change. We have an powerful rain events that have flooded out for instance, a major city of are, Sewage Treatment facility and its unpleasant to be downstream when a Sewage Treatment facility floods out. Martin has had to take a berm around its oceanside Sewage Treatment facilities. Warren is planning a very expensive move with intermediate protection of its Water Treatment facility. How well does the iija find the need that communities are facing, to deal with these unprecedented flooding events driven by Climate Change and our relentless pollution by the fossil fuel industry . Thank you senator whitehouse for the question. We ourselves are dealing with the impacts of Drought Conditions. Earlier this week we had a meeting to talk about moving to a drought watch. So, it really is impacting every community, east coast west coast, north and south. I think the structure is there in iija, the authorization is there, the appropriations need to be there. Let me also ask you about micro plastics. We are starting to see that turn up more and more in Drinking Water. We see it appear in mothers breast milk. We see it appear in the end result in a babys diaper that has gone through the infant. We see it falling in the rain in colorado. And we dont really understand what the dangers are of micro plastics when consumed by humans. The bill provides 10 billion for what it calls emerging contaminants. Is it true that micro plastics are only one of several emerging contaminants if it were to be treated that way, and given the kind of upgrades that are necessary to deal with micro plastics, 10 billion, is that a sufficient number . The short answer, senator, is no. Its not sufficient. We have focused a lot on pfas, which would be in emerging contaminants. Which is an emerging contaminant and we have things to deal with that when you say are projections yes sir. So we need to have regulatory certainty. We need to have a comprehensive roadmap to deal with emerging contaminants that are on the horizon, holistically, so that we are not, so that we are making our investments in infrastructure upgrades make sense. So, suggesting some flexibility around the 49 for communities that dont have a lot of resources, and additional funding for infrastructure that faces climate related damage flooding, drying out conditions, whatever they are, and an expansion of the 10 billion which now has to cover both pfas and micro plastics in addition to what other emerging contaminants are out there, it would all be helpful to you . Yes sir. Is that a yes, also, mr. Volk . Yes. Thank you. Head nods are important. All right, i think next is senator mullen. Thank you chairman. You know, we all face unique challenges being from the midwest and rural states like oklahoma, north dakota, and even major metropolitan areas such as boston, new york, san francisco, l. A. , we all have issues facing us when it comes to clean water. Sometimes its policy related, sometimes its neglect, sometimes its a lack of funding. But we do know that one size does not fit all. And we need to give initial polities, states, flexibility to allow them to make decisions for their unique areas, and a lot of times when congress, we may have good intentions, sometimes, its politically driven, sometimes its actually policy driven and thats what we are trying to do is have good sound policy. But one size never fits all. And when we throw tremendous amount of money, i mean 55 billion is a lot of money, still, for anybody, i dont care who you are. Its a lot of money. And then we put restrictions on it, i think we hear from all of our witnesses, hey, we know where it needs to go. We need the flexibility to do so and if we are going to be funding these projects, then we need to make sure that we get those dollars as close to the state, as close to the individual providing this as possible, and give them the tools to do it without having the restrictions, which happened so often with federal funding. Every dollar has so many stinking strings on it, that they cant even access it. And thats what i believe, mr. Folk was saying a while ago, and senator kremer was trying to say, just to get through the bureaucracy, to get to the funding, is a miracle sometimes, in itself. And so, my question to you is what tools do you need for rural parts of the country, which is most of the midwest, what would be most helpful, the money is there, what tools do you need to access it . Senator, great question, things we talk about all the time, the flexibility would be immensely grateful i know with our state folks, they would love that. The flexibility in what . Dont use the dollars for certain projects without having restrictions on the project, flexibility on navigating the bureaucracy, what . You know, especially with this funding like i say, with the lead component on our waterside, we run the risk in our state of maybe not spending down our First Tranche of money as quickly as we can and we cant apply for the next set of money until we spend that down, and we run the risk if we dont apply for that before september 2024, we could lose that money and that would be reallocated to a state, so, some timing flexibility for our state to navigate lets say like where the lead service inventories, they are not due until october 2024 but they have to apply for this new funding, the next years funding of the lead in september of 24, so the funding is ahead at this point ahead of the true problem, the state does not know the magnitude of the total led replacement. We have an idea but some of the flexibility on that would be great, so they wouldnt run the risk of losing that. Maybe have a little more time or could use that at another point. Would it be helpful at each municipality or each world district, trying to apply for the grants themselves or the funding themselves. Would it be helpful that if we were to allow, through the epa, if congress were to simply give the money to the state that have like in oklahoma, deq, department of Environmental Quality, north dakota, im sure youve got an Environmental Agency that could help manage it, too, give it to them and allow them to help disperse the dollars in areas and set the timing that you need thats more designed to actually be practical for you guys to achieve what you are trying to get done. Center, normally thats how it would work with their base funding through the program, they have intended use plan, that they would go off and its on a ranking system, if theres Health Issues or things like that, so, they have that flexibility. Its just some of the tightness on some of this. The timing of the thing you need most help with . Yes. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Senator padilla, please. Thank you mr. Chair. Let me begin mr. Chair by just reminding you how proud i am of the work that this can this committee has done, while also working to expand access to wider read reuse and recycling, and Drinking Water, in terms of the foundation for the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment in jobs, this last june, i chaired a subcommittee hearing examining the challenges facing Water Systems across the country and the impacts of aging Water Infrastructure as weve been talking about this hearing already. And the fact effects that aging and the structure is having on families to pay their water bills. The cost of water is rising. Household water and wastewater bills have increased 160 , since 1998. Just to put it in context, thats a greater rate of growth than the rise in cost of electricity, for rent, or even medical bills. Now in 2021, congress created the temporary low income household Water Assistance Program in response to the covid19 pandemic and we also authorized a new epa Pilot Program to help Water Systems address low income water affordability. The authorization expires at the end of the month. So i know senator cardin talk to you, ms. Powell, earlier about your experience and taking advantage of the Resources Available and what it meant for customers that were able to receive aid but can you just emphasize for me, the program, wet when it expires at the end of the month, will customers be able to afford their bills at the end of the month . Thank you senator padilla for the question. We are also looking to develop new customer Assistance Programs and enhance the customer Assistance Program that we already have, but we found that having it in place we were able to assist more customers with the cost of the water and sewer bills and that helped them get their accounts back in Good Standing and also helps the utility to be able to move forward with our Critical Mission of investing in infrastructure and our people. One of the things that we are planning to do and weve been working with wasteWater Utilities across the country, is to advocate for a Permanent Program. We need the authorization and we need the appropriations. You anticipated my followup question which is exactly that, its been a temporary program but it sounds like you believe a Permanent Program should be part of a federal safety net . Absolutely because there are some states and communities to have their own customer Assistance Programs, so having a federal Water Assistance Program akin to light heat, that is appropriate for this critical resource. Thank you. I wont raise the subject of pfas that several of us have talked that already but i do want to associate myself with those earlier. I ask about another issue, which is not unique to california but california seems to be exhibit a, they need to exercise disaster resiliency and weve seen no shortages of challenges and opportunities to have access to safe wastewater, especially when it comes to natural disasters. Just last week, communities in and around san diego faced a oil water advisory after the first Tropical Storm hit Southern California and 84 years. It was an anticipated hurricane, tropical depression by the time it made landfall. This comes after where we sought 30 Atmospheric River storms flying communities throughout the state and yet, we are still emerging from a maker drought that has stressed Water Supplies not just in california but throughout the west and even here in the d. C. Region, low flows have triggered drought operation so another question for you, ms. Powell, how has the drought impacted your operations . Well, right now, we have normal operations. As i shared, we had a call earlier this week to talk about how we will deal with the Drought Conditions at wssc water because we are making upgrades to our potomac plant, and we are also working to recover capacity in the reservoir that serves our plant. We have specific limitations, so the Drought Conditions are exacerbating the limitations that we have to provide treatment. So its really critical that we plan for not only the future where water supply is concerned, but we plan for resiliency, which is why we have been working in the region to advance the water supply resiliency project that was awarded in 2022. You have spoken about the unique challenges facing Rural Communities, anything else about how you would like to add, how do you prepare for flooding, drought, wildfires . Senator, in north dakota, we do a lot of planning with winter storms, ice storms are very big and making sure that you know, if the power is interrupted that all of our small communities can still keep enough water whether its for citizens or if there would be a fire. So there is a concern that we have in our northern climate that you know, we all have our uniqueness on Climate Change or climate resiliency. Thank you very much, thank you mr. Chair. I think senator kelly and senator sullivan are in route. I just want to say thank you for your leadership on these issues thank you. I should mention, the subcommittee hearing, very bipartisan in spirit. Senator loomis is my partner on the subcommittee, hes a Ranking Member of that committee so we are working in a very bipartisan fashion. You are a good team. Thank you very much. Until we are joined by sensors sullivan, i want to ask maybe another question to President Biden. Would you take a moment to discuss the disparity between the amount of money the company spend to manufacture pfas and the Financial Burdens on the communities to handle the cleanup of these vehicles . Thank you senator, my colleague in minnesota and her agency recently did some studies on this very topic, and what they found is that it costs to buy pfas about 50 100 per pound but the cost to remove and destroy pfas is around 2. 7 to 18 million per pound, so theres quite a disparity between those two figures. That is quite a disparity. One other question for all of our witnesses. Attacks on Drinking Water systems in the United States are of a increasing concern and the communities that they serve as documented by a report from the American Water works association. As well as to respond to attacks as they occur, mr. Vo, do you want to lead us off . Another great question. For the association, we strive to provide the technical on site assistance to her small and Rural Communities with the Cyber Security you know, even as rule of a small state like north dakota, we are hooked up to the world, which can be great and also be acres, too, when the bad actors find is, weve had recent instances in small systems that there have been people that have got on there, they dont know exactly what theyre looking at, luckily, we were able to stop that and our state is very active, weve got some very intelligent experts working on that and we are working handin hand with our rural systems with them. Thanks for that. Ms. Powell, same question. Yes sir. Our Cyber Infrastructure is just as important as the pipes in the ground. We have systems that are connected that have to be protected and we are under attack, there are bad actors that are trying to access our systems, every water system, all the time. I think the water sector has become a prime target for bad actors. So you know the long and short of it is that funding needs to be there to support those efforts for Cyber Resilience as well. This is certainly a new challenge that is being presented to the systems but i think having funding for training and Technical Assistance and necessary upgrades, the focus should be on Public Health and how we are keeping that top of mind. Weve been joined by senator are you ready to go . Ready to go. For the witnesses, thank you, just real quick on the circle question. I know its an important one. I have a bunch of questions on other topics but, is it safe to say that all three of you agree that there should be some element of limitation on liability particularly in the pfas related area . Senator, i think its a good conversation to have to look at any unintended consequences. I think its a topic that is worthy of careful consideration. I do think its important for Water Utilities, as passive receivers, to have those protections, and the focus be on the polluters bearing the cost. Its like airports and other entities, too, that all of a sudden, i mean, in my state a lot of these entities would go bankrupt. They were the reason for it but what about you mr. Volk . The small and rural systems would totally agree, they should not be held responsible for that. Polluters should pay. Okay good. Ms. Powell, and this is for everybody, this administration talks about Environmental Justice, environmental equity, i saw that in your bio, i have no issue with that. The problem, and ive said it 1 million times before, the Biden Administration has Environmental Justice and equity if a big asterix, if you are a person from alaska, you dont get any Environmental Justice or equity. You get attacked by this administration. So yesterday, we had another outrage, a legal outrage, the administration canceled leases despite congress saying you had to do it and then they restricted the natural result per Petroleum Reserve of alaska, but, mr. Chairman, i to submit the joint alaska delegation press release on this. The vast majority of the people in this press release are alaskan natives, screaming, screaming, what are you doing, why are you taking away our jobs, why are you taking our revenue, this is environmental injustice for Indigenous People in my state and it happens every day. Ive said it 50 million times in this committee but why did they get so outraged, ive also shown this 1 million times in this committee. Thats American Medical Association chart, from 1980 to 2014. What places in america had Life Expectancy increases and unfortunately, some places in america had Life Expectancy decreases, mostly because of the opioid epidemic. The place in our country that increased Life Expectancy the most, by far, was alaska, up to 13 years and it was in a rural, indigenous communities why . A, because it started really low, Life Expectancy for native alaskans was the lowest in the country, by far but b, from 1989 we had responsible resource development, jobs, clinics, hospitals, and portly this panel, water and sewer. So my constituents Life Expectancy in a lot of these places, up to 13 years, 13 years, like whats more important, ive asked this, policy indicator of success, are the people that you are representing living longer, i dont think theres anything more important. So yesterday, this administration took a whack at that, try to make my constituents live less longer, deb holland ironically, its just shocking, shes a native american, she attacks alaska natives every time she opens her mouth. What does that have to do with this hearing . A lot of the revenues that come from this kind of resource trying to go into water in sewage. My state has over 30 communities that dont have any Running Water or flushed toilets, i think thats more than any state in the country. Its all Indigenous People. So, do you think thats Environmental Justice or racial equity, by the way they are the most patriotic americans in the country. They all serve at higher rates in the military that any other ethnic group. My question for the panel is, in terms of formulas, by the way the epa administrator was in alaska just over august, we did a meeting with alaska natives on these issues. Ive shown that chart many times. So, in terms of the formula for water and sewer, dont you think it should prioritize, just for fairness, call it Racial Justice or equity, just call it good old american fairness, the communities that dont have anything first . Like theres a lot of talk about aging infrastructure on water and sewer but i think sometimes we miss like no infrastructure. So can i get the witnesses response, just on a formula, shouldnt we be prioritizing communities in america that dont have anything, flush, no flush toilets, american citizens. Its not right, in my view but i would welcome any views on it. Ms. Powell, maybe you can start. Ill be happy to start senator sullivan and thank you for the question and the awareness. I will say from a personal standpoint and ive said it many times, i believe that equity is about communities having what they need so that all communities can thrive on equal footing. Like Running Water. Having been in the water sector for some time, im not here to speak on behalf of the water sector but i can tell you, i dont know anyone that believes that we should trade the needs of the unserved or underserved, for the needs of the unserved. I think every Community Needs to have what it needs and i think that this historic investment in water and wasteWater Infrastructure or being able to provide wasteWater Infrastructure, needs to be fully funded and it needs to be sustainable and long term, so that every community can thrive on equal footing. Thank you, anyone else . We share your concern with making sure we are getting funding to those who need it most, so we actually change a lot of our processes to make sure that we are reaching. We have a lot of communities were bypassed over the years, so in getting our funding, we canvassed all the county Health Departments to find out which communities did not have service or access to Reliable Service and then we did outreach to utilities to encourage them to do projects to connect those folks. So far, weve been slated to connect homes to water. He did require us changing our process and also, we do give you know, extra points on our criteria to make sure that we are meeting the needs of our residents especially the rural parts of our state. Mr. Volk, do you have a final thought on this . We have worked hard with various state partners, federal partners, you know, to meet the gap of those underserved, not only, we have four tribal nations, to meet those needs, there are other places in the state where there is limited, you know, limited water, limited sewage, even in this day and age, its crazy and yes, though should go close to the top. Thank you mr. Chairman. Senator capitol and then we will wrap it up. Thank all of you for being here today. Very interesting to see rural, urban, big states, small states, we all have some similarities and some different concerns. My last question is around Risk Communications. We had an incident in East Palestine ohio, where there was a Train Derailment and great concern expressed by me and many others about the impacts in the water system and the chemicals that were being carried, in the train, how it was handled, and we had a hearing on it. And one of the things that came out of the hearing was the Risk Communication not just epa but ill use epa in this case because you all deal with epa. This case, this was not as good as it could be. If you are in a community that is at risk because of an accident or a weather event, im sure you have all dealt with that. Ive had this in my own community to have appropriate Risk Communications is essential. In other words dont Say Something and take it back react immediately, use science, all of these things. So im going to ask you, what experience do you have in this, and how do failures and Risk Communications additional burdens on your state . Because you have your state entities reacting, your governor reacting, and understood in the federal level Risk Communication. Thank you senator capito. This is something we spent a lot of time thinking about at the department because certainly when accidents happen or when you have one area that we deal with a lot, that is with pfas, because as residents get testing on their Drinking Water wells and find out they have high levels of pfas, you want to make sure you are providing folks with science based information, giving them what their options are, and making sure that you are consistent, as you pointed out. We try to spend a lot of time thinking through what questions that residents will have, sometimes you dont have as much time as you figured out with East Palestine, we maintain webpages, we answer calls every day from residents who are concerned about these issues. We make sure that we are having a whole of government approach to ensure that no matter where they call, they get the same answer. We want to make sure that there is consistency across the agencies. That is really important with pfas, you see it in the media all the time, different types of reports and epa has not set the drinking level, which ive been pressing them for, for probably now three years to do this. But they did set a level that is untestable, so if they come back with a drinking level that is higher than the level they put out last year, that could have some risk to it, here, you have confused messages to people who find this in their Water Systems and so, weve got to get this right. And so, i appreciate what you all do everyday because i know you are dealing with all kinds of may be possible contaminants and other things that have happened but the general public relies on you to make sure that the information that they are getting is not just accurate and timely, you are relying on other people to give you information so i think that is an area that we need to stay on and be as vigilant as possible. So thank you all very much, thanks for being here. I have one last question and then we will wrap it up. Ms. Powell . This one is for you. Bipartisan infrastructure lot included some 15 billion in funding for lead service replacements. Many districts across our country have been busy this year, creating Service Lines, inventories, and assessing what kinds of problems exist in their respective areas. Has your Water District been able to assess bipartisan infrastructure law funding to meet your obligations to replace the lead Service Lines . What are the challenges that you are experiencing as you work to address this challenge . Thank you for the question, senator, and as i shared in my testimony, im happy that part of our progress is receiving some projected funding for our lead Service Line Inventory and replacement work. Our lead Service Line Inventory work is underway and we are developing a thank you very much for letting me speak here. On behalf of small and rural systems. I can speak on north dakota. They do a great job day in and day out. A lot of them like we talked, shoe string budgets. But they do a great job. I want to push out to all the people who work with the systems, because sometimes in the water business when youre the news, it is not for good things. And that is a shame. They do great things. Everything. For the residence, not only our state but the nation. In that profession should be elevated of the highest levels. That is what i want to recognize those folks in the trenches. Thank you. Thank you, sir, and thank you senator carper and were having beer again. I was learn something when i come. We do too. What i would also lead the committee with his the need to focus on workforces. We can talk about all of the funding we need for the infrastructure. But without having the people in place to maintain that infrastructure to protect those millions of dollars of investment will be putting money into, and not being able to maintain those investments. So thank you for your focus on that. And i just want to say thank you to. Thank you. I would say i mentioned center it is unusual for us to be out a month. And i spent part of that time just covering my state. The businesses large and small. The nonprofits i was asked three questions. How are you doing . How are we doing . What can we do to help . I cant tell you people so we need folks to come to work. We need people who are trainable and have good work ethic to come to work to learn. We have low employment. I think its about 3 1 2 . Last time i checked i think we have about eight or almost 9 million jobs open right now that we are trying to fill. One the challenges for us at the state, local, federal level is the workforce make sure we have the Workforce Skills that are needed for all kinds of jobs. Including some of the ones were talking about here. It is critically important. Thank you for having me here today to talk about this historic investment. Thank you for your leadership in making that possible. I am going to continue the theme with a slightly different take. The Workforce Development as it relates to state capacity to handle these the grants that we are giving out are coming back in the forms of permits. We are facing an unprecedented level of retirement. But we have 24 vacancy for engineers. 24 . You can ask any colleague of mine. This is a major focus across the country. Categorical grants from Congress Make up 25 of my entire operating staffing budget. They remain stagnant. So i know it is policy not funding there is a nexus there. As we are seeing stagnant rates of funding and our responsibilities are growing. We need to make sure these programs are successful and make sure we have the resources to recruit and maintain highly qualified staff. Thank you. Will be joined by senator kelly. You are just in time to close us down. Go ahead. I am the last one . You are worth waiting for. Thank you for waiting. And thank you, all of you for being here today. It is important. Secretary i want to begin by talking about pete moss contamination and dragon water. I mentioned that ari came up. As a member of the group of 11 republicans and 11 democrats that work to negotiate a bipartisan infrastructure of law. One of the Top Priorities was dedicated funding for tricking Water Systems to respond to contamination. Its a problem in arizona but also a problem across the country. Thanks to our bipartisan law 10 billion is being allocated to tricking Water Systems across the country to address this contamination. In the state of arizona the funding has already been put to work helping Drinking Water systems specifically in the southern part of the state to install systems to this growing plume that we see in the groundwater aquifer under where i live, my wife, my granddaughters. It is under tucson. Since the infrastructure was past the epa has developed tricking water standards. The new proposed maximum containment level would be four parts per trillion instead of the current guidance, which is 70. Much lower. While the epa is not finalize these Drinking Water standards, if the proposed levels were finalized, how will that impact the Drinking Water systems . How many additional systems in the state of arizona as an example, would be required . Thank you for your question and thank you for your leadership. I can speak to North Carolinas experience with that. We had 43 of our, municipal and county systems that would not need the number you cited. I will say broadly speaking what is needed is, North Carolina got a head start. It forced us to be a leader in this area and learn a lot quickly. So we have had a number of years to do assessments. I think nationwide states need funding to do assessments to get a handle on where it is. The most costeffective way to treat it is actually to prevent it from happening in the first place. So we need funding to see where it is coming from. We need to put down the shovel and the environment. And look at how we can better control that piece of it. We also need to get a handle on where we are finding it. North carolina has done extensive testing and large Water Systems. But also we are in the process of testing over 650 over smaller systems. It serves all kinds of other populations and communities. So having the funding and the ability to do that comprehensively will help us get our arms around it and ultimately decrease the amount of treatment costs we will have associated with making sure tricking water is do you have a sense North Carolina than how you would have to scale the permit will system to get from 70 to four . How many more systems would you need to add . What you think the cost would be . There is not currently a tricking water standard. There has not been a lot of systems that were currently in place. We do have two Water Systems that are larger that had higher levels of contamination. We have one reverse osmosis and then one was a activation system. Based on the experience and the cost with those systems we are estimating between 668 alien and for the three Water Systems to come into compliance. That does not include the small Water Systems that are going to need to put filtration in place. So we dont have a number there yet. The results for those tests are starting to roll in but we do not have a complete picture. Do you know of any other, any future methods to remove it . Anything that is being developed or any innovation out there that could get us to four parts per trillion at a potentially lower cost . Sure. The reverse osmosis system and the carbon systems are the two efficient measures available. I know there is a lot of research and development that is ongoing. Our Research System is looking but commercially and but i am encouraged we have a lot of research and development going. I think we need more research and development not only on the systems itself but also to assess and treat the Media Associated with it so we have the ability to and not just perpetuate it. Thank you thank you. Thank you for making the extra effort. I want to really close where we began. Thank you not just for showing up today and preparing for today. And not just for your thoughtful responses to questions and issues that weve raised. Members of this committee are very proud of the work that we have done on infrastructure to our country. It is not something we do it is state local and private sector. It is very much a team effort. When i was thirsty, what did you give me to drink . It doesnt get any more important than that. When we turn on the spanglish, or what we will drink is safe for us. For us and our families. Usually have good attendance our hearings. This is an exceptional. I think it is reflective of how important our colleagues, democrat and republican regard these issues. We need to continue to make progress. Everything we continue to do we know we can do better. You have given us good input as to how we might be guided missiles as opposed to unguided missiles. Bipartisan infrastructure made historic investments in Drinking Water infrastructure across our nation. There is still a lot of work to do. But as robert frost would say, miles ago before we sleep. Still plenty work to do. We have every intention on staying active. We have to do our job on oversight. Its important and our job is a serious part of that oversight. Want to state active and work with state and local authorities. For those who dont have it, we want to make sure they get it. Before we adjourn just a couple final items. Wonderful members of this committee on both sides of the aisle. We also have great staff. These hearings dont just secure. The staff elaborates impulse together. It is a powerful panel week after week and month after month. Today is no exception. It is one my favorite parts that i get to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record materials related to todays hearing. And i was at will not be allowed to submit questions through the close of business on thursday, september 21st, 2023. What i like about this is when i ask there is no one here to object. I know i will get my way. Hearing no objections. We will compile those questions. We will send them to all of you. We ask you to reply by thursday. October 5th, high noon. Thursday, october 5th. Anything else . I think with that it is a wrap. One last thing to our friend and dakota. Tell your friends out there to take it easy. We are usually bruised and batters, especially guys like you. Its not a fair fight. Thanks, everybody. Take care. God bless