gam gamesmanship. they don't want to say absolutely not we will not do an interview. so this is part of the gamesmanship. mueller is saying, okay, we will take some of the questions off the table. would you please sit down with us. and frankly i think a lot of lawyers don't expect this interview to ever happen. >> not under, i mean, or it might happen under compelled terms. under voluntary terms everybody doesn't think this will happen. as much as a good faith effort to make this happen under voluntary terms. >> absolutely. i think that is a very important point for them. if this ever does come before a judge who has to make a decision