Transcripts For DW Conflict Zone 20240714

Ambassador Sam Brownback welcome to conflict zone i. Q. The u. S. Recently held what was billed as the Worlds Largest meeting on religious Freedom International religious freedom delegates were welcomed by the same donald trump who said in 2016 i think islam hates us and when he became president a year later moved to bar the citizens of several muslim majority countries from entering the u. S. How does that help your campaign for religious freedom and i see it all as something for us that religious freedom is specifically a right of everybody everywhere all the time and what hes primarily discussing are immigration issues but youre certainly immigrating to your own party i mean there are people like john. Mckay the late John Mccain Lindsey Graham who were horrified by the state said this executive order sends a signal intended or not that america does not want muslims coming into this country and you can go to any state in United States and you have mosque there or there and if you want to open up one yourself you can do it and the point of what we were talking about when i was psyched about here is International Religious freedom. And that is guaranteed here in the United States and if you cant practice at the United States youre well placed to bring in a lawsuit that you would choose and to declare and to put forward that you have a 1st amendment right in the United States to do this and by the way we are not a perfect country and we dont claim to be but we are one the do it we do believe in these rights is fundamental rights like religious freedom we do practice them and we have problems and they end up in the court system but were going to continue to push these rights every chance and every place we can but the policy was condemned widely by religious groups including the Jewish Community the policy of barring people from muslim majority countries was the American Jewish World Service coded and nothing less than a xenophobia muslim in the intent of which has been made clear by president chum through multiple anti Muslim Statements over several is it that it doesnt help your cause to be promoting International Religious freedom when you get responses like that does it. I dont i dont care for those responses but i also would stand for all of those peoples rights to save those and do it those things that they do and i would stand for their rights to practice religious freedom the United States i think youre conflating 2 separate issues i think youre bringing in my opinion of what youre putting forward here an immigration issue which there are some. Stanch all questions about immigration theres a lot of dispute and debate about u. S. Immigration policy a legitimate discussion to have but what im talking about is a fundamental right to religious freedom to where there really isnt i dont think that much dispute that individuals in the United States are all entitled to this fundamental right to practice their faith or no faith at all for 11 and various ages not in the homes by things which which donald trump has said. We were told yesterday are about jews the president s Statement Last month to them that if you vote for a democrat youre being disloyal to jewish people youre being very disloyal to israel since when is it the business of a political leader to comment on the political views of a particular religion because the outrage yeah yeah my position and work is invest your religious freedom and thats what i comment on thats the line that im in and thats what im going to comment on on your program really until you know i into those views that if you vote for a democrat youre being disloyal to jewish im not going to comment on those one way or the other ive got enough work to do in this job on religious freedom and anything you want to talk about on religious freedom im happy to discuss about sort of brownback you said that you saw pushing for religious freedom as a way to promote of the rights you said if we get it right youre going to get more freedom of assembly is going to be more press freedom is going to be more free speech taking place you set that into law yes fact is when you drill down there is little no evidence for that is that oh why did i dispute that completely if you if you look at this issue on religious freedom which has been declining and contract in around the world the last 10 years in particular you see these other rights decline and retract and often religious freedom or the persecution of people of faith is one of those 1st issues that happened biggest manipulated the most the earliest. And you can see countries that really on or religious freedom tend to be ones that also on her 1st amendment rights of free speech and assembly you can also say theres a couple other correlations on this i appreciate the question there are a couple correlations that i think youd be interested in one is youre going to see less terrorism if you have more religious freedom and there is a factual basis for that as there are for these others and youre going to find more Economic Growth if you get more religious freedom this is thats why we talk about this in the sort of foundational sense in july you looked at the United Arab Emirates which you singled out as being one of the good countries they hosted you said the 1st of a papal visit on the Arabian Peninsula and theyve been stepping up and doing a lot more so you gave just cold stuff for them this is a state which arbitrarily detains and forcibly disappears individuals who criticize the authorities you made no mention of that when you were giving them the go. I didnt of those additional things but also as i could be out on the mental things and they are they are but also because i mean youre out of your ass freedom but its also a matter of democracy what do you i think im sure what did you think of the papal visit for the 1st time in the history of mankind to the Arabian Peninsula what did you think what led you to cover it what do you think that the well what do you know if you go what do you what do you think about that people arent interested in my views what you say you know or my goodness youre putting on forward right now what i mean here is that you only know about what jail for their views thought about it well i think that comforted them well lets lets talk about what happened. Thats talk about you you have a papal visit on the Arabian Peninsula thats never happened in the history of mankind do you think thats significant then i think our blows up even human rights above me is the let me go to the nish the thought we finish the thought if you want to answer my question ill finish my thought here that there what youre doing is youre starting now. To open up in an Arabian Peninsula area that hasnt had these freedoms put forward before but hasnt had a papal visit ever happened before this starts to talk about some of these rights and my job that i see is one that youre always trying to move people along the buses here as well but its not free speech just dump talking about democracy but only the shot here of it is the let me let me finish this thought here what youre trying to do is to get these countries to move on forward and that you hope that as you move them forward on these things that they will tend to engage more people that have a broader set of thoughts and that you can get to more of these as you saw in the going to do that the ruler of the u. S. Has 6 and wife is holed up in london having run away from him terrified that shell be kidnapped like to live his daughter as well with a child together but thats who you are dealing with. Hes got no intention of changing and being becoming a Democratic State and you and this is one of the good hunch is you name it well this is one that held a papal visit this is one that i went to mass there in that country my biggest problem with getting the mass was the traffic i wasnt blocked from going there thats not true in a number of islamic countries where i have visited and you dont have the degree of ability to move around they are not a perfect nation and they have many things they need to improve upon but im just reading to a religious freedom the government chooses and vets all the amounts issues weekly guidance for the friday prayers and even informal islamic teaching has to be approved by the government is that religious freedom and i would guess you guys didnt put a gold star said on this not once i did why dont you compare him to what the saudis do now what do you think it would come to the saudis not to lets talk about the sound of the saudis a bit late well no because you know about the saudi sky reaching what must be well what did you ever think about how do you ever improve a situation. Do you just say were going to stand back and were going to condemn completely and all the time and you guys arent doing enough and were not going to talk or work with him or is this you try to engage this the right way Michael Brown then the president said what are you going to your way to do it but Michael Abramovitz president of Freedom House at the u. S. Cannot effectively promote individual liberty human equality or democracy by narrowing the definition of human rights to exclude broad categories of rights or people and to focus on International Religious freedom excludes democracy free place for the courts and its like that those so the obama years this was being done much better and progress is being made our idea should have you just say about obama you know youre just saying that of the way of just saying were going to stand back and be critical and were not going to engage is a much better way to go quoting an individual than saying that thats the way to do it i choose to believe and ive been around and working on these issues for a few years i carried the original Realty International i just freedom bill i was one of the key sponsors of that in a Democratic Administration that didnt want to really see this become law and sense and weve continued to put these reports forward weve continued to work on this topic and i think without those sorts of efforts you wouldnt see youd youd see further backslide and then we are today but im busted and so i think these are key things that we try to push this on forward the only tell you what about high individual told me that he was really funny because i want to get through quite a lot of ok what do you want to fight so lets so d lets do this well yes you do sir you dont want to hear about what direct ways we want to go at this i do i want to hear how you explain away this single minded focus on the International Religious freedom and i ask you how discouraging you think that might be to human rights victims in because. Yes i know i do that every banner of your variance very bright man and youve interviewed many people much brighter than me over a long period of a very successful career and i applaud that you know that and that i have a certain Statutory Authority the position i am going to statutorily created position and it has a narrow mandate and then narrow mandate is on religious freedom and its on every country in the world except one which is the United States and its not only United States because this is a very robust and difficult debate in United States and we want to keep a bipartisan support for this topic but i dont want to have a stand if you take egypt for instance where donald trump said in april that president r. C. C. Was doing a great job and was a great president. The question is whats so great about ignoring the escalating campaign of intimidation the violence of the arrests against political activists many others who voiced criticism in april 17 senators including james risch the republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee drew attention to what they called serious concern about the erosion of political and human rights in egypt but you think theyre doing pretty good bus was thinks theyre doing great. On. How do you think he compares to president morsi when he was in as you gyptian the leader of egypt how do you think sisi compares. He has tried to achieve more people who do. You think see how young were really trying to see is worse than morsi do you not think torture is worse no no im asking when you see them go around cairo murdering babies do you know hes the head of the Muslim Brotherhood. A hes the Muslim Brotherhood. Its not. That strongly reputable of a group but you would rather have them in and so you see. Is that he truly id rather have people not being praised to subject their citizens. To industrial degrees of torture yeah and you saw morsi and the man who was responsible oh it was mr ill c. C. Was responsible Human Rights Watch said and 2013 for one of the largest single day massacres in modern times in a city for which nobody has ever been held responsible somewhere between 40800 people die. He didnt discriminate killing by Egyptian Forces pussy didnt do that. I think there would be a variance of opinion of believing that the Muslim Brotherhood being in power in egypt is better than c. C. P. In a tower no i do not claim i dont think anybody in this administration with the c. C. Is perfect or near perfect by any means you feet preys on him and i think that once were that there would be criticism and that there has been criticism that there will be criticism but there i also believe there are people trying to work with this government in egypt saying this is a major player in the middle east and in some way that we need to work with some ways when i was in the senate i worked a lot with Hosni Mubarak and president mubarak had a lot of problems and he did a lot of things that were highly questionable but youre still saying ok then whats the alternative and is it the Muslim Brotherhood yes thats the alternative well i dont think thats the right way to go. In january secretary of state colin powell was in cairo he too was heaping praise on the c. C. He said hes really taken to heart the ideal of religious freedom and hes done so with great power and great courage and he is to be lauded for that. The facts are rather different when it comes to religious freedom in egypt the egyptian christians who are the largest no community in the east live in a minefield of of legal and social to. The nation you know and i mean maybe you meet with more people that are dealing with religious issues in egypt tonight do i doubt it but ive met with a number of people that are practicing people of faith minority faiths in egypt. And heres what they tell me. That this is much better under the c. C. Government than it has been even though you would prefer the Muslim Brotherhood they do not. There is communal violence is taking place and it is very discouraging. They are very appreciative of the signals that president sisi is sending from on time and top and trying to push they very much appreciate him dedicating in opening up a church because of the signals that it sends they are not appreciating it was a very closed as well and let me finish this point if i could with you they appreciate some of that now i look at it and i see a lot of problems that are taking place. These are these are not the sort of thing where you you pick the perfect against what you have right now this is the sort of situation where you say this is its either candidate a or candidate b. Within us and they would rather have the Current Situation than what they had. But not all that easy right for respecting religious freedom it would be nice if they would 14 churches were shut down by the authorities between september 26th seen in april 28th with coptic christian is denied access to them and for a service is prohibited in one village south of cairo theyve been waiting since 2001 to have a church and last december they were attacked by muslims was stoned no one was held responsible and the christians have had to suspend all that you know and all those things ought to be addressed. And weve put those sort of a use in our right theyve got a gold star and the secretary of state not get a gold star he didnt say i give you a gold star no he said you did you look at our report are really. Just freedom reporting that the secretary issued on egypt he said and he cites a number of these problematic things that he said hes really taken to heart the ideal of religious freedom and hes done so with great great courage and hes to be lauded for that thats what he did so. He also put out that report and you look at the reports which very few people read. I would dispute that within the religious freak religious Freedom Community this is the Gold Standard to use your terminology this is the Gold Standard on religious freedom the secretary of state issued that report he signed it he cited it he put it forward and he stands by it. The best of the this talk about i think you should look at that report ambassador lets talk about the u. S. Attitude to human rights because this is would be so much as anything goes where it was changed one country pushes religious freedom any more than the United States. What about all the other fundamental rights well im asking you this one because this is the one i work on and you asked to interview me and this is the one i know but the fact is the another country is as. Give you know the country that pushes religious freedom or the United States this is so who is ever held a ministerial on religious freedom before this one has anybody i would suggest to you theres not been a single nation before this held a minister own religious freedom went out and held one we have this issue with this is in the bonus thousands of people from around the world ambassador i understand that no but you tell me a nation thats better than ours on religious freedom so im boss of the i want you about im not talking about you just carried on trying to do you think im trying not better on religion or you told us about religious freedom but i guess what i read was interesting but this isnt the ministration has basically said goodbye to human rights diplomacy hasnt it you know it has not sir ranks real extremists and says religious freedom and human right Rex Tillerson trying her 1st secretary. State religion i am didnt know why he did not said to his really just harriet im a human right Rex Tillerson says its risen that too often promoting our values is an obstacle to advancing our other interests in other words dont lets let human rights get in the way of a good trade deal i mean i submit to you that religious freedom is a human right. Its in the 1st amendment nice lady only one as well but if you wont even admit its a human right will you admit its a human right just a matter of what. You agreed to answer questions i agree to come here and ask the people who are interested to know use theyre not interested in a well i handle one area and thats religious freedoms are and in this area this is a human right its in section 18 of the un declaration of human rights it is a fundamental human right there is no nation on the earth that pushes human rights of religious freedom any more than the United States more than the trumpet ministration does sir and you cant come up with a single name about a else that does it this is true not my wrote to you last well but it is true your last meeting on religious freedom coincided with the creation of the new commission this year to explore inalienable rights in u. S. Foreign policy is that right. Youve said that is made in the house where youre the last meeting on religious International Religious freedom the one you held this year. You had a new commission this year to explore in alien the ball right that was announced i thought that was announced by the secretary but it wasnt at the ministerial if thats what youre referring to serve his is no no no i dont know but it came roughly at the same time came from the same as a yes with these are very separate entities but i mean you can confide in if you want but theyre separate entities there seems to be a growing impression that youre prioritizing religious rights at the expense of other rights. In 2016 Martin Castro who chaired the u. S. Commission on civil rights wrote that religious freedom is often used as a code word for discrimination intolerance racism sexism homophobia and that out worry is present now is. That what that worry that concern is present now is that. Religious freedom in the space they occupy is religious Freedom Internationally its not domestically. This is a fundamental right its a fundamental right for everybody to exist at all times all places for everybody and it doesnt pinch on other rights it is up just like freedom of assembly really just a religion other rights religion said here in the United States that said i think its if it does a person brings a lawsuit in and carries it on forward and they have the same rights as anybody else just this commission that was set up on elaine inalienable rights has been openly is chaired by somebody whos been openly critical of same sex marriage do you want to see same Sex Marriage Ban in the United States i dont have portfolio there sir you have the you i only have authority on International Religious freedom you have to interview somebody else that your confirmation hearing in 2017 you refused to give a direct answer when asked to state that there were no circumstances under which religious freedom could justify criminalizing imprisoning or executing people on the grounds of that l. G. Bt status why didnt you know about it so that question. Oh how not sure at that time but we i stand for whatever those rights are that the state department has been supporting it supports individuals around the world on their Human Dignity rights. That you and i support those. You dont buy more that will be relations on the grounds of Sexual Orientation you know i dont. Support what state department does in this area the area i work in is religious freedom but as governor of kansas you issued an executive order rescinding protection against employment discrimination based on Sexual Orientation it and i did because there was not a statute that supported and i thought those should be determined by statute not by executive order. To your boss the cycle you want to talk about religious freedom. To a frustrated 2 lost last year your boss the secretary of state went as far as to suggest that Donald Trumps president ial victory could have been the result of divine intervention to buy into that narrative. Thats the secretarys opinion. You know i know im not going to talk about theology with you to talk about religious freedom but i know that i would argue all you dont share his view will you do share is im not going to comment on it sir i mean other people in the administration have said the same thing you have 2 days Sarah Saunders and so recently the press secretary went even further god wanted donald trump to become president she said. You can ask her about it sir i think i just dont have portfolio there im youre asking me questions that i dont have authority to answer you dont think this administration is in danger of just a little too much piety and selfimportance. Flaming of holy endorsements for them of. I im just not going to i dont have portfolio there sir you dont have a view one way or the other i dont have the portfolio you got a unit as the press secretary or somebody else that can respond to those questions i i can answer a lot of questions on religious freedom but if you dont like an answer from ambassador Sam Brownback its been good to have you on the program thank you very much. Thanks. Everything will be different. But the crystal alabama stuff the slowing of. What happens when machines the forecasts start making more decisions. Just minutes. Reports on the battle to find decent accommodation limber up with the slim and the list the answer up to 100. 00 euros per square meter elapsed one of a sense of what the 100 years ago lived securely in the Water Bottles are becoming a scarce commodity elim made in germany lives illo. On the road with our superheroes my mission is clear blue kushti get anthony closely explore germany. Take diving and everything out so theres a lot going on in the. Early chart tested. Checking. On to w. M d adventurer some of the famous naturalist and explorer. To celebrate clicks on the front of the bloods 250. 00. Morning on the for the discovery. Expedition in boyd on dino place. Wheres home. When your family is scattered across the globe. To. Return back to the roots once again minutely. The charge family from somalia live around the world. One of them needed urgent assistance and. A family starts october any on t w. This is d w news life for 11 tonight. A phone conversation with the potential to end presidency a memo of a phone call shows trump pressing ukrainian president. To investigate trumps political rival joe biden and bidens son despite evidence of wrongdoing the potential quid pro quo got the attention of a whistleblower and his push democrats into pursuing impeachment. Also coming up. A defiant Boris Johnson addresses a wreath