In this turbulence arena but of course its both a policy to the conflict as in syria and to peace efforts so our question is moscow in the middle east who is in kind of a power broker going and going to really. Keep. Up. With arms very much for joining us on to the point and my guests here in the studio include reggaeton am who is a freelance journalist from lebanon she says russia wants to be in a position to ease all worsen tensions in the region that will deepen migration flows to europe and continue paris st america and its allies also with us is about american support for t w s Russian Department and he points to a russian saying that goes holy space is never. Russia has filled the vacuum created by others. And a very warm welcome to. The middle east. And the new argues that in the middle east russia is making very efficient use of its a very limited resources which can be said for countries in the west are good thank you all free for being held like to begin with you are again a full blown war between the u. S. And iran appears to have been avoided for the time being but where does that leave us in the middle east and what can you tell us about the role of russia in the region. Well of course i mean if we look at the last few years in the middle east of course we can all agree that sasha has gained more weight. Recently especially in places like in syria and recently in libya but i think this is all because the americans have chosen to step back from that region at least militarily and at the moment politically they dont seem to be interested in and they can get any any peace deals or be im involved watch so when that russia so that void i mean we can go back to this in the at the course of the conversation to speak of all started but the russians saw an opportunity it can step in and try and really embrace the fact that it was once a big power in the world and once a big power and been really still a snow is once again the german magazine cicero described russia or is the central actor in the whole mideast region is that over the top result plausible i think it is a little bit over the top i mean it is as i said it is only a big part of the moment because the americans have chose to be if the americans decide to step back and decide to be involved as they once were then that russians would not stand a chance to stay the big powers the big the big players they out at the moment theyre going to be russia is resurgent at the moment moscow has a real clout in this region were without sidenote how do you explain the return to power and influence from your perspective while russia has a very strong and very long history of military presence in syria and libya from the soviet times Russian Troops and Russian Defense were delivered to syria from late if 2 years in their base there until the collapse of the soviet union the same for levy russian government soviet government was one of the 1st in the world to recognized. Qaddafi as a huge of state after the putsch and the year after. Lootera troops are present in libya as well so its acquired the historical link but theyre both country and now we have 20 years put in the power in russia last year in december so hughes is doing step by step reconstruction of the russian influence not to the soviet level of course but im quite agree with you that the russian trying to use this not limit not putri source of its half but limited resources but very very smart very very small indeed i just wonder. At the beginning of the show we have this quote from you holy spaces never empty was not all of it its about if you leave some space its not about geopolitics its a general life. Rise from the altar icemans saying if you leave a space which is very attractive for many parts many many participants someone will jump on that so if america leaves a place or europe least someone didnt jump jump in and try to them in the space and its not only for me though its just dont you know theres a certain fascination for russia even after mitt among the analysts and all the people that are dealing with the middle east professionally. Sometimes the middle east experts are jokingly saying that the reason why we are so fascinated with russia is because one of us made it to the top of the country because im talking about of course they used any pinnacle was very influential in very influential soviet leader and it was a middle east expert and very eloquent arabic speaking but beyond this. There is myth and there is reality of course and the russian role is important but the strategies and tactics that russia applies are not so difficult to decipher and secondly i think it would be easy to follow the example of russian policies in the middle east europe could do that very easily but then it would have to stop caring about human rights it would stop caring about values whatever the russians challenge these were used and it would have to abandon certain of its Foreign Policy principles and thats the dilemma because what russia does basically is stabilizing governments they consider legitimate and. We dont know the whole thing its about values based policy of course of course none of this is something that is completely i would say anathema to the russian Foreign Policy but its something that they consider hypocritical and a western idea and so they say our the Foreign Policy argument goes we are with the state we are with the government regardless of expenses and. Russia is not limited by our limitations or so from intentions of the rest of iraq theres no talks of democracy in russia or very close russia is very pragmatic in their Foreign Policy. Having thats why is that actions were never bothered by all the massacres that happened in syria. And there were facilitated by the russians made when when decided in 2015 when he said the russians were never told that he talking about the russian the russian policymakers the russian the love the leaders i mean because of the russian leader to help me about him that i mean that russia has no one who is a true divide i am if you look back and the 2nd for him just now it was the same script applied to syria which was a player purchase now in the 2nd for the you destroy the mother rights and then you destroy the extremist and then you establish a stability of it nor regret it in no cost and that you have people involved by the way because it was putins war at least with regard to the 2nd issue is not most new script its quite right all force russia have nor limitations and all very close but just clearly russia is here to stay reflecting what you were saying about the just the fascination that some german commentators have with really germans by the way not only journalism want to see one senior german spokesman recently described russia as indispensable so clearly russia we mightnt i dont know i dont im not sure whos going to break the lines here for a lot of the putin today but we might not like. Policies but the but theyre here to stay i think i think they have put in has and this is probably the strategic i dont want to call it genius but the strategic advantage of your daily. Genius is really i dont want to step back for from this i dont want to express too much admiration for this because if you analyze it is actually notes of difficult he put himself in if into a position from which he can benefit from all the mistakes that others make in the region and he can somehow he can digest. Something that the others cannot and and by and by these Means Project power and this is a situation of really unique situation and also what is interesting is like weve been probably we will talk about the war of narratives that a boy on is this syria war is it a western conspiracy as Many Russians believe is it just like a terrorist uprising an attempt to destabilize the region or even to to oust russian interests in the region we have a lot of narratives going on my fascination my main rather intrigued i have to say also when i travel to moscow to talk to russian experts about this is that it doesnt really matter there is kind of you know theres a little there that is that they seem to be comfortable with with with these conflicting narratives as long as there is no western narrative that dominates and. I find this very very interesting aspect of Foreign Policy also if it is it true that assad used chemical weapons or is it not true is it true that there is a conspiracy against the Syrian Government because the western countries wanted to allegedly establish a gas pipeline from the gulf to the mediterranean which would compete with russian interests no matter there is a lot of theories and a lot of narratives around and my feeling is that russia the russian the official russian state lets say or proponents of the official russian state narrative can very well live with these conflicting narratives because it helps them to project their power in the region. Laura. Mayo may not be a genius but he has certainly played a game. With the slow withdrawal of the United States from the middle east and as a result russia is now perhaps the key. To reach. In turkey syria iran israel saudi arabia in egypt and libya. Strongman around the mideast are building closer ties with. Israel. And he provides incentives in syria his troops are fighting to defend Bashir Al Assad regime in return russia gets to military bases on syrian territory and nato southeastern tip. Countries in the region are buying russian Weapons Systems even nato member turkey. Russian Nuclear Plants are also in demand russia provides them fully operational to egypt for example and promises investments along the suez canal. Offers Diplomatic Services as well mediating for instance between arch enemies iran and saudi arabia and between syria and turkey and between libya and german chancellor angela merkel. Is russia ousting the United States as power broker in the middle east. Just in a moment we were talking about the methods being employed by the russian leadership. Tell us a little bit more about what the strategic goal where does he want to take. First of all as mentioned. Original power. In the middle east the old soviet. Influence in the in the region but. Security. Theres no talks about democracy or human rights from russia what they want to mention as well. That in the russian Public Opinion syria doesnt play a huge role so there are politics do whatever they want in russian army as well on the ground there are public is not as much as concerned of the happenings in syria or libya but as it wasnt its now not concerned or they actually applauded then and not really consider their time to time have messages from russian contractors killed them to leave in russia on the office level denies the involvement because its a private contractors which are on the ground in libya for private companies. Their time to times news about People Killed or injured in libya deliberate back 2 or 3 men to russia but on the office the lives of the numbers are very low really has to be snowed you know i have no children um because the russians dont deploy like massive troops like the american did in iraq or where they just send mainly experts and they deploy small number of troops maybe because russia is incapable of sending like a big number of troops its ministries is lots of very well. Montagne and lacks way behind the American Military when it comes to to financing it so it doesnt really have that much money to be able to fund all its ambition in the region and militarily its cannot its cannot support that i mean aside from sending experts and trying to politically play on on. Use its leverage to mediate between some parties its i mean its better fitting at the moment from it it has managed to has to be said that as managed a bit there the relations with the gulf is was with the gulf countries especially was saudi arabia despite all the differences between them on several topics just how it was in syria but they managed to agree on the oil market to be able to Work Together to stabilize their own my kids and look at the other one and this is you just rolled out like how theyre dealing with their potential opponents an enemy is the day the friendship. Well its a the very very personal and at the same template technical relationship between the 2 and putin is something really fascinating to see like how how those heads of state in the region that are really afraid of russia because they say like the americans are far away but the russians can do us harm and we and we know they can do us harm and so they go to moscow and this is a fast and if you look at the Syrian Opposition the Syrian Opposition has i think rightfully claim that russia is responsible for many casualties many dead in the war in syria actively and directly responsible however the Syrian Opposition has always gone to moscow its always been open to moscow never tried to alienate moscow too much because they were afraid but both so because they thought that its absolutely important to to entertain relationships with moscow the russians have also brought up the negotiations and the attempts to bring in some Political Solutions alongside the military solution. The Constitutional Committee in syria thats being much talked about that is currently meeting or not currently but that that has started revived geneva thought it may be fail fail to be 40 even started but this committee was a russian project and the United Nations implemented this because they said if the russians want this we will do it in order to be able to have the initiative doesnt mean that its a successful as it has recently but youre youre right that might have that mr davis but doesnt mean that theyre capable of making them get to places all right but theyre there theyre trying to offer a different scenario ive recently talked to a to a pretty i think influential Foreign Policy expert from russia who said the war in syria for us was a successful startup but as every start up can be considered a cynical statement about if you look if you look at was one of the consequences but whoever he said it was it was a successful start a bit like every start of you need to have an exit you need to sell it and we havent actually found a way to sell the start of successfully so they are trying theyre trying to keep the political process ongoing also to Gain International legitimacy and at the same time during this time. Im to have bought try to find a military solution but i think the russians are honest about something they know that just conquering every bit of syrian territory with the bashar assad is not enough they need to find a political solution and they havent found it so soon extend as a vacuum within a vacuum and a lot of people are saying the read the europeans should be doing more is there are they right to say that and if yes what should the europeans be getting up to. Well yes of course the europeans should do more because the of the europeans are the 1st suffered ours of anything that happens in the middle east and we saw the consequences of the syrian war on europe that it did not did not suffer from from the consequences it was germany particularly that suffered from the over 1000000 refugees from syria thats came here so of course that it does need to do more but if we look at the history of you know europes relation with russia its been really like nonexistent because were already member in 2008 when russia had her small war with georgia and it was over a few days but he put europeans response was not like major and then there was also the other russians adventure in ukraine when they took over crimea and the europeans only imposed some small sanctions but russia 5 that it can get away with anything its doing basically and this made her feel empowered to go further and start in syria as well and the 1st kind of country which was harmed by war and sort of was not germany that was turkey which got 2 millions of refugees red letter and if you want job done like why dont our jordan in almost 1000000 but there was not much talk in your about the refugee crisis in jordan lebanon or shortly before 2015 because it was not a start it was a very narrow narrow sighted public succession. Lets just talk continue on the theme of the europeans they have tended traditionally to standards so i didnt leave the dominant role in the middle east in diplomacy at least to the more influential americans take a look at the current conflicts in libya and you can see why after all they dont even have a shared strategy. Libyas defacto strongman is code for have tar the field marshal was long an asset of the cia he and his Libyan National army large parts of the country under their control and routed the islamist militias now his troops are poised to take the capital tripoli. Internationally recognized as libyas president. But his power is limited to the greater to poli area he receives military support from turkey and libyas former colonial power italy. But france and russia back qatar. Sending military support. If there are russian citizens there they do not represent the interests of the russian state and do not receive money from the russian state new belief. In the coming days the warring factions was a cease fire in berlin. Commit squabbling european players and russia agree on a common approach to libya. And. The crisis in libya. Together calling for us to be a peace conference in this coming weekend what can we expect for realistically you know well both both have so far failed in there to solve this conflict and its interesting that on now standing together russia has tried to broker a peace deal between. Russia and supported the renegade general. Operation took you on the other side. Refused to sign this. For the moment. With a cease fire lets say he said he needs to get the backing of his tribal allies in libya before maybe he didnt want to be seen also as as a servant to russian interests and like show that he has a certain degree of independence the german approached. Was to talk to all the parties involved the United Arab Emirates saudi arabia Turkey Russia egypt algeria. France and italy and others so to make sure that they do bilateral talks with all of these parties before somehow understand their interest and then bring them together to one table and this is have is happening now i think there is a realistic chance that they could force the warring parties into a cease fire because the government of the internationally recognized government has has no option has to agree with it because its militarily very weak and then on the other hand may. All d his supporters if you refuses to sign this cease fire but what were not sure about to what degree his supporters spec ours are honest about about this because it could very well be that the speculate that house would conquer tripoli the capital of libya and then could just like broker a cease fire according to his own terms and so they have to make sure that his supporters his backers are really honest about wanting a ceasefire and then i think this conference can ultimately be successful. Yeah i mean this is another this is an authentic actually by russia to prove that it can broker a deal it is or it is a big player and it can be seen as a mediator and working together with germany could that be a template for other peace initiatives or peace efforts in the region while the germans or the russians have a good worker relations any waves literally its a growing relationship that to the noise of the americans will slowly but i mean we didnt we have to not forget that this process is also headed by the United Nations and the United Nations have seek the help of the europeans when it failed to get an agreement in the in the Security Council because of the big divisions between the russians and the western allies so yes it could i mean this could get to places and if it does then russia would feel more empowered to basically as a big player on the international scene. We come back to the same question of Vladimir Putin is he a war monger over a peacemaker not has been the theme of the show im very interested in in the light of these initiatives around libya and possible other all initiatives you know tell tell me about him what his role really means i think this i mean thing burning there will be a success for russian diplomacy because putin aura is back on the war stage the summit there was a huge no no reason how the result of the conference will be if any results at all but its distracting the Public Opinion in the war from the ukraine from the crimea on the book involved in ukraine theyre not going to block normandy approach of completely gun youre talking about iran syria and libya and its a more politics and middle east is much more important to small regions in the Eastern Ukraine so in this part of the russian political argument its a success. But whats got me the price we should be we should really be aware of this and i think and its realistic to is also. Put in will asked for a price able ask for for a compensation for his effort also to support a European Initiative that is going to be set like he wants to talk about sanctions against russia because we always talk about sanctions against libya against syria but lets not forget that what is really harmful invidia hurting russian establishment they say about russian leadership are the individual sanctions against Many Russians because of. What happened in ukraine and in crimea and i think if the russians side with the europeans in their peace efforts they will. Will will have to pay a price for that and i think thats what putin is going to demand and probably has already something to look forward to going through to the weekend indirectly to just one more question that we said that we would come back to weve got trump the impulsive american president theoretic american president weve got Vladimir Putin the opportunistic russian leader if you so will the genius the dark gene. This who is these 2 gentlemen is going to whip out i mean definitely out of the traps administration have made it much easier for russia to be involved more in the middle east of course the started before with obama when he broke his that had lined threats and he didnt offend syria but trump made it much quicker when he decided to pull out his the american soldiers from syria and left the scene for the russians who is going to weigh in with the bends if another one of the elections next year again. Is going to stay in power. For ever and. The one thing we do know for sure apparently. We speculate. Very much for joining us on the point today. Showing up. Want. A market. A journey into the unknown. But justifying exploits. A battle against the forces of nature. 1919 the 1st nonstop flight across the atlantic and just as a moment in history a long cherished dream finally comes true. Pioneers of the sky. And 15 minutes on t. W. Mysteriously its tongue tally may be come to make a skiing region in the worlds slopes instead of pristine nature and an annoying Mountain Peak just blasted away. The customers want it so thats the bottom line. Is that really true. The much tourists coming out spam. Actually remainders just shows numbers but fred shows how much. The man for the law. Ms. The smart way to get. The ball although its mobility show every week e. W. Every 2 seconds a person is forced to flee their home. 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