Transcripts For DW To The Point 20240713

Temporary asylum has expired and right wing parties are on the prize open or closed is germany a country of immigration thats our topic on to the point. On. Welcome and thanks for joining us here on to the point where our guests in the studio are multilane ng who is an opinion writer for the berlin daily. He says germany is in a global competition for qualified immigrants to be successful it must offer greater incentives and better conditions and its a pleasure to welcome suffrage and shockey is a freelance author and journalist born in uncorrupt and resident in germany since 1970 he says unified germany still has no immigration policy based on reality but is under enormous pressure to act. And great to have with us on the other hand she is originally from costa rica and now works with the berlin based Migration Hub Network which provides support to International Projects working with migrants she says it seems like were going back to well known regulations forgetting the real contribution the current and future migrants make to this country. So let me begin by asking all of you this i have been in germany myself for 35 years now and for as long as i can remember this country has been engaging in passionate debate with itself about precisely this question whether it is a country of immigration what makes this discourse so tortured. Im not quite sure whether its a real gentleman phenomenon that was specific to germany i mean if you look around. Just to other nations from the back ocean and the the bricks of discussion in Great Britain scandinavia from austria all these countries they old struck with the relationship between native born population and migrants and refugees so so there is something that i mean germans like to argue and to discuss their own identity questions a lot but its not exclusively germany that doesnt and i agree to some extent because somehow. Myself in germany it feels like germany says still trying to fight what kind of migrants they want in this country. Germanys migration country and you know the mayan bad will be the 9 many a lot of migrants will have made an incredible contribution to this country so for youve been here in germany even longer than i have you know i have a similar impression that this debate just goes on and on with the new leader ations absolutely i think it brings a lot of. Tension but maybe its also a profit for people to discuss this and not to finish. I dont know but in the end i was told to joke i think this is a serious problem because vs have kind of uneasy in this question the basic background of this discussion is in fact the guest worker this does go through of the sixtys of to seventys and the german society. Didnt develop a real positive constructive. To what towards the expanse of work make aeration the mickens have a anonymous positive memory of this time so theres a gap between this negative attitudes among a lot of germans people dont integrate stay for a debate dont communicate and so on and the other wants to say v. Could come to this country and could find a safe place because make our living here because invest in our home countries and we could really bring our children to the world here and this is the proof we have to bring this together them all together to have a more realistic view of future immigration thank you let us just give a listen to how a few germans with a migration background actually also answer this question about whether germany has become a cut a country of immigration torch of ellen launched an ambitious social media survey to find out what they think heres a sample than it is today germany is a multicultural country it already is a society based on immigration because thats not something for the distant future and so its already reality it. May be some people just dont want to believe that were already such a diverse society. And as a human. Michel in my opinion someone who would describe me as not german just because of my name or Something Else that doesnt understand germany. And for topless man i dont know. We are a nation of immigrants go to one slum and. So over this long debate. At least some of its phases the word multicultural has not necessarily had positive connotations for a lot of people here in germany yet the 1st speaker that we heard used it in a very positive way as a statement of fact what do you think that i think it should be used in a positive way i mean you have to differentiate between the simple fact that germany is a diverse of multicultural immigration country i mean theres simply a fact because people from my own background now in the near future will be 25 percent of the population who can deny that it is a migrant country the the next thing is to have a positive attitude towards being that to value the contribution migrants have to pull the country starting with the recruitment agreements in the fiftys and sixtys with italy spain greece and all these countries but ending now with immigration all 3 so we have the example of the minister of health whos traveling around the world to get migrants coming to jobs were going to see another example of that a little bit later on but let me ask you this one persons multicultural is another persons parallel society the idea that different ethnic groups live next to each other sensually in a form of ghetto cut off from the Larger Society whats your experience as a person whos been in this country now for i think its 4 years its only 4 years but i work with migrants for being here ready for you know more years than that and i have to. Seeing with them whats the was a transition that takes to actually feel integrated and theres many people sadly who even have born here and they dont even feel themselves german so there is definitely i would like to highlight what matters the set i mean we have to work towards look at it as a positive thing because unfortunately steel in the streets and in the society many people tend to get their culture there and they see because there is not that openness you know in the rio live in the daily life for them to express their culture their allegiance so of course they feel more safe towards get a rise and enjoying their groups than rather just you know integrate with the rest of society i would stress that perilous aside hes part of Integration Society because not only because they they they are not being welcomed by open arms but because they tend to be 2 words you should be they speak their own language they try to help each other to so they that they have a bloc in communities and have little italy in new york we have chinatowns everywhere so these are perilous societies but that doesnt exclude integration except i think this person has been germany but the question dream question is why we are punishing so much why there isnt much point in history and this question for example i experienced 2 different gratian persons one was coming from turkey 2 to munich in the beginning of seventys as a child and 2nd voices growing up man coming from munich to berlin theres always a real Culture Shock so people live different they have different ideas of life and this is part of modern open pretty societies we have to ensure people that they can lead you leave life differently result having this big topics always part of this aside goulet is. Proto society in berlin and the and the high middle class areas life is also very very parallel if you compare 2 to 2 places a bullet more social conflicts are so. Its a stuffing its the point of fear coming out from differences is the main issue can i ask you for another comparison you talk about open a Pluralistic Society is one country that is often seen that way is Canada Canada has quotas for Skilled Labor immigration but it also tends to take quite a large number of refugees and know that you lived and worked in canada so can you give us a nutshell comparison of that society compared with this one. I think the attitude i was in by the way more in the United States but in canada but i have some experience was in canada and the attitude is the more important thing i dont expect in fact germany becoming kind of this is not realistic this is a country is a traditions is a story we have to talk about it the problem is that we dont talk really about it you know be told always about immigration because she has immigration all shut the close the borders open the borders its not that easy if you have to to to push away the that and this and to look in our history which is a difficult history the 20th century by the way and to the story of the divorce and we have to see what this judgment today how it can change and how ill fix it it is that amount of theres another layer to that history as well namely 2015 when we had hundreds of thousands of refugees entering this country many of them from syria many of them fleeing the war there was quite a shift in attitudes after says its all about attitudes there was quite a shift in attitudes what was initially heralded as a welcome culture turned bitter why what. Happen there are good but these are 2 different just courses the discourse about the refugees into 20152016 is basically driven by humanitarian arguments being tolerant being an open society and so on and so on the migration discussion is around competition is about seeing the fact that 3 quarters of migrants go to to just 4 countries United States Great Britain canada and australia because the English Speaking countries they have an excellent. School and University System and so you have to be attractive for migrants in the future to to to to have a state in the in the global competition i mean germany reigns in the tract of this and bring 12 and 13. Countries which are developed this is not enough so germans have to have to have to recognise the fact theres not just the question of being tolerant open and welcoming but then the sessa t. Of having more immigrants this is something of this is very interesting because the image of germany is very positive by a lot of countries and this ranking is very interesting theres a gap between this i think and the point you match and i think that has to do is that something which of the germans is that they have difficulties to accept that some vals and if you want to have yes i may say i want to separate that topic that migration with the winds who are rising 2015 i mean lets look at how are they doing this case theres a report right that says that 4400000 have got a job but kind of jobs is another story but i work with many of them and that actually the acted too that many of them have taken towards integrating into i mean following the rules sort of say its been phenomenon they go to german classes there were a kid in a fight i mean theyre really trying let me let me stop you right there because we actually have a report about exactly such a young man and let it be said that it is perhaps not confusing that germans often confuse this debate. As for many for a long long time they had no category for Skilled Labor immigration it was only refugees those who came in 2015 were looking for Refugee Status lets take a look at a young man who is one of those who has received a temporary refugee recognition but who lives in uncertainty not knowing when he might be sent home if the danger to him in his home country recedes we visited a young man from afghanistan. Kies has had a stable job at the Migration Office tonight for a little under a year now he came to germany 5 years ago and speaks german well that makes him a prime example of successful integration. Back in afghanistan he had been in the military but he fled the country after receiving serious threats by slugs his new home but his residency status makes him worry his right to stay is only temporary so each year he has to reapply for extensions for his wife and 2 children. What happens when one year is up what will happen to my children and my family. We cant go back to afghanistan i left everything behind to build a new future i wanted to live in safety but nevertheless we havent truly arrived we can only wait. Should germany be more open towards well integrated immigrants. Right on to you on it because you were saying we shouldnt make this distinction between essential in the skilled on the one hand to contribute to the economy and the others who are often seen as a drag on the economy so what about a young man like. Hes a contribution to this country as many that has arrived in the recent years actually parallel to d. C. Act right that enters in march 1st there were another act that also passed the act to allow Skilled Labor immigration to sectors Like Health Care exactly and theres another one that passed exactly at the same time it actually entered into force i guess in february or something of that which is the temporary suspension of the protege sion because many of like them cases like that existed in germany where they already got a job but they were in the process whether protege shown or they were not and you know. Refugee status so and so now this act also is going to protect people like that right so i think thats i want to highlight what you said i mean what are we panicking about i mean perhaps its very important that we dont make a distinction and then we see everybody as a contribution and i also have many examples like like the one that you just showed actually from Syrian Refugees as well many of them especially the ones who had a doctor background which is basically one of the skill sets that its looked or its interesting this new act and theyre really working and theyre ready as a doctors and they are the ones where saying germany needs more migrants are more people who works in that for example health care what is going on here is that what difficulties they have are connected to the issue that there was a kind of impression that state lost state and officials lost control and they had this experience 2050 after their hundreds of thousands of marriages and this was in the end it was right there was a control and the next thing was that it was enormous the misuse by right wing politicians and by people who organized the public you know and there is a kind of send sensitivity on this issue because there is the story that enormous amounts of people who wants to come to europe and especially to germany and if you dont care about this who will be or so this is this is a this is a tall tree kind of. Its shut our eyes we have to open our eyes and we have to look at it and we have to address it we have to communicate the issue what is the ratio of. Immigration could be organize and i think this example that you just showed to us. Demonstrates this in a perfect way because we have on the one hand a moral obligation to protect these people because they helped the german army in afghanistan theyre seen by locals as collaborators so we have a moral obligation to help them on the other hand german taxpayers invested in these people for education giving language courses housing them for health care and so on and so on i dont know how much money in each person of them but to expel them after a certain time mean we invested and just waste of the money so that just an economical reason just to put into that market can i just ask you because its after has basically implied that right wing politicians are instrumental ising zina phobia precisely in regard to 2 young refugees like. Would you say thats true and by the way that they handle this are mainstream politicians running scared in front of this right wing fervor i think they instrumental eyes that but i think that is again that is a european if not a worldwide phenomenon i mean in the moment you have a couple of months 100000 of people coming in uncontrolled and you have a right wing populist party by 10 percent i think thats what could have been expected i dont want to excuse that or to to minimize the political impact but i think there is a correlation between the acceptance of migration and the feeling that is in a way controlled migration on and controlled by but you know its really important your same as above lets not forget they resign your report from the cafe which is this german bank a state that says that in that east and in the rural areas the. In germany 40 percent of the people are against or they said that they dont need skilled label migrants because of course and this is what thats the target of the other right when they stop relation because they are afraid that they have that unemployed right there part of the 3 point one percent of the people who are unemployed in this country so of course their fear is that increases and thats what also germany should look at into more precisely a more thought only also how we can integrate the ones where an employer at the moment let me just say i mean stop here because our time is limited and i do want to take at least a brief look at the other side of the coin at the same time that germany is wrestling with right wing zina phobia its also actively seeking Skilled Labor abroad a new law and a Public Relations campaign are designed to attract promising candidates. These 16 women from namibia are narnian german with music theyre trained nurses but because they have no chance of finding work in their home country theyre applying for jobs in germany. Employees at the University Hospital in dusseldorf travel to namibia especially for job interviews. I feel they said good if its a new team for my personal. Development and my career as well and for my for the things i want to do in the future. To explore a beat into what you know what class facility we gave him all her 1st name experience. The yalu hopes to soon be able to support her family in the media with the income she earns here. Later she hopes to study in germany will return to namibia. After the interviews in windhoek the team from dusseldorf is excited. To tell you our clinic has decided that we would like to have all of them into sold off. But is everyone. Profiting from the migration of skilled workers to germany. Exactly the question that ana just read this let me ask you this after 5 months language course and then off to germany so question would be how well prepared are these young women likely to be for what awaits them here and what will become of them later do you think this country will do better at integrating them than it has many other guest workers here but absolutely i also think that this country integrated a lot of cars because there were in the end this is a question of psychological discourse if you want because if you see all of the best sides of immigration you can have a picture if you see only the kind of a picture the difference is in the middle i mean you have you have the screen you know you have this dark sides and good sides and you have problems in the society important is how you solve the problems and how you can. Advise people to act more realistic and relaxed in the same day i mean they have an enormous Efficient Organization of life here in this country and they are able to talk to integrate a lot of people this is the question but in the same time you have an almost fierce in the in a pod off to society not a small part i dont think its a majority but its a start to form to persons of people are mostly negative towards me gratian goes off all to an almost a many many many reasons and they have to address the reasons its very important if you dont address the reasons you will have more and more pulled the market is this an either or should germany stop looking to namibia for skilled workers and simply invest more in education and training for people like the young afghan man you know what i would say its basically a question of sensitivity i mean if the even minister of health gives the impression that he a rich white man from a european country. Comes with a pocket full of money to buy labors to germany i think that would be a very very dangerous impression you have to see in some in some cases if you cause even a brain drain developing countries this is compensated in most cases due to the fact of the remittance these people pay to the families in their own countries but you have to i mean you have to talk about all these. Looking for skilled workers is one thing but but qualifying your own if its refugees and migrants in your own country is the next thing that is least as important as the 1st so ana last last question goes to you when we go back to our title. Monkey says we need to talk about it is the talk achieving something would you say germany is evolving toward a country of immigration open rather than closed. I dont know how these Public Relations campaign will go much of the looking forward to see that aftermath march 1st but the impression right now towards them i read that i hear is what about us yes germany has done an impressive work but still there are so many things that needs to be fixed internally even for the wants to come i mean i am part of a country for example that i cannot open a bank account easily in germany so its very important that the these little minor details that really counts a lot into the integration are fixed 1st and secondly lets also take into a look into the ones that are here already what i just maybe else them and particularly the ones who came into new 15 they are going through this field in process right so they will be highly skilled in a very in a very short period of time and they will be also part of these he labeled migrants so thats also a question that we will see as i guess is that the balance of this is our last question one word answer please when people from your country and from latin american generally look at. Germany what do they see open or closed its quite an aspirational but not necessarily the reality when they come here thank you very much good to have you for being with us today and thanks to you out there for turning in a fearsome. To. Be above. The law. As much as. The bottom of a. Beautiful. Tribute. To. The from. A sustainable closed loop economy in kenya. Traditional t. V. Production consumes vast quantities of morning. Now prest sugarcane is mean used to drive the leaves. Turning the unused waste into a valuable commodity. Global 3000. And 30 minutes on d w. Its smelly business feeding the worlds ever growing population. Agricultural multinationals are appeasing Global Hunger with cheap meat. Impoverished Small Farmers decimated Ecological Systems and an economy dominated by monopolies are the devastating consequences of industrial farming soil as im. You know 75 minutes on t w. They were forced into a nameless mass of. Their bodies near tools. The history of the slave trade is africas history. It describes how the need for power and profit plummeted and entire continent into chaos and violence. The slave system created the greatest planned accumulation of wealth a world had ever seen up to that moment in time this is the journey back into the history of slavery. I think will truly be making progress when we all accept the history of slavery as all of our history. Our documentary series slavery routes starts march 9th on d w. This is deja vu news live from berlin vigils across germany is the country mourns the 10 People Killed by a suspected far right extremists but theres also anger and questions about what more the government should be doing to combat extremism. Also visit the Community Near frankfurt devastated by this tragedy and speak to those whove lost loved ones. He was about to leave the bar just wanted to finish his mill he had just passed his exams a week ago we were