What the European Union is all about how everyone for france 24. 00 m. Falls will be governed paris and im melinda crane for dutch of ella in berlin in the European Union health care has always been handled at the National Level so as the corona pandemic swept the continent it was nation states that were calling the shots even between close e. U. Neighbors borders were closed crucial medical exports were stopped and solidarity was looking pretty illusory but that is now changing with french patients for example being treated in german hospitals and melinda with a crisis that were 2 months into which shows some are calling the biggest test for this continent since world war 2 a lot of questions Going Forward the french president and u. N. Michael calling it a moment of truth ahead of thursdays Virtual Summit there are those that are eyeing did to. De confinements and then other nations that are doubling down what common response can france and germany often dubbed the motor of european unity a rally a continent thats sure to face some major major challenges both within the European Union and from the rest of the world our title today is corona europes moment of truth process that cats and daughter bella t. V. Join up for the debate welcome and joining us from frankfurt hes the former deputy mayor there former student leader of may 68 and former coleader of the green party in the European Parliament thank you so much danielle convention for being with us. And joining us from his Berlin Office is my tam from my shop hes a member of the german bundestag representing fribourg which lies close to the French Border and hes also a member of the Franco GermanParliamentary Assembly welcome thank you. From staus boule holland the banks of the rhine we are pleased to welcome a doctor cmyk by dr youre an emergency physician and also a member of the Municipal Council who has brought thank you for being with us thank you over the past weeks youve been doing a lot less politics and a lot more of your quote unquote day job i know youve been working out of the emergency dispatch it should be pointed out to our viewers as asked the region that porters germany is one of the big clusters here in france originally it was down in the southern part of ads us in that city of new whos of but you also have been feeling the brunt of it we know that the curve is flattened whats the situation like this tuesday. Well this year 3 of them is a stabilization in the number of people tested positive that my team understand visitation of a number of people being persecuted low and then maybe with no hope in people transferred in i. C. U. Which is a. 10 percent or less than the others so we still have people going through the hospital we still have people to think positively of you still have severe cases by the number of people dying and the number of people going to as you only planning see america go by mary when you are 1st saw the cases coming out of china coming out of italy did you think as us would be hit so hard now never. We have the same image 1st the myth that we have from sars or from nurse. Early 2000 and we we thought that we can have something about. Maybe 10 cases in strasbourg and then up in something like. We saw people coming in we still 1st the elderly people. Younger people with when we surveyed cases and we saw people dying you saw people in transfer to i. C. U. You need ice you bet we were really surprised but no one of our colleagues. Didnt think that. Their needs work i mean have these raids in our region. Let me pick up with a question to my town fun marshall whose electoral district is just right across the rhine river from that region that as we have just heard was hit very early and very hard by cove it so mr from russia what has that meant for the people in your district and for your region as a whole. That was and still is very difficult for our region you should probably know that about 40000 people from all sides move to my home region to suit. Basically but they all work in the very important places like for example hospital sir we absolutely need these people and them as a sudden they they couldnt come but also because we decided to close the boy ringback as i was as was defined as a high risk area why was it you find a high risk area. Because the infection spread east exactly in that specific creates room south of koran and there it should jammu was because there was any stretching band with several 1000 people and these people they were very close together and some of the virus spread very fast and then harriet knowledge just these days we can come back to slightly open the borders again which is very important for on a common diet and i hope and we will bring this topic into a meeting of the committee of cross or cooperation where i am a member from the village of williston in this cross border corp this will be a Video Conference this thursday and have very much show that we cannot convince both sides germany and france to make our cross border cooperation more easy in the near future then youre convinced frankel german cooperation well thats literally in your d. N. A. Because youre the citizen of both countries how do you think your 2 nations have risen to the challenge. Difficult its difficult because for the french its difficult to see that it seems that. Its easier to be in germany and that they handle the cold it or the cold it is not so explosive or less explosive that in france and because. This pandemic. Push through national react here so if the 1st safety the senate the safety its a national thing and so are the corporations is is is not good is not good is difficult and i think that the french and the German Government is not doing it well its not doing it today still today you know like they did some wonderful things you know are you know about transfer from france to germany etc yes but even now when you know even if you see the discussion that we have now caught the post by and then make the kind of leak recovery i think that france and france and germany are not on the same track and if france and germany is not on the same track then it would be very difficult in europe we want to we want to come back to that question just a little bit later but let me go now to dr cmyk because we just heard from daniel cohen bend it that in fact there are many people in france who have a sense that somehow the germans are doing it better weve seen some pretty prizing headlines coming out of france lays out among poor croissant you may you know why are they better across the world not only in europe but all over the world it seems that the corona virus is exposing the gaps and deficits in countries Health Systems and in their economies so what would you say you have seen about what needs to change in france. Well what i can say about the difference of 1st of maybe it will be it is. Different from counting the dead people because in front of the people in this period. Also are enduring. That people are counted else. But in germany if you have they other tears or you have hypertension you may be counted differently when i said that i can explain the difference while the other part of the difference is maybe about that the number of bet per capita and you have your money i think its something that our 8. 00 for one family have you done in front its 5. 00 and the number of i. C. U. That you have germany its 2 or 3 times higher than in france so thats going to explain because when you have severe cases your ability to have 20 large or mechanical ventilation supports to save people and if you have more rights you bet and you have merit more i see your doctor and nurse years well trained than you can save people so maybe one of the 1st listen. Its that we need if you show. Public Health Services are we going for the European Union around the world and we need urgently to face other pandemics coming but some might argue about the french spend more per capita on health care than the germans why have they less to offer as you just described. Well because we had the. Where we. Countenance vision on Health Policy in last 20 years the last french government. Was really. I do. A story policy unhurt and they close something about 2000 bets in 5 years so i have some. You will not pay for this because you need these beds for the people and we Emergency Departments are saying that or something about 2 or 3 years that we need beds we need nurses doctors we need budget spending on Public Health structures let me yeah say to daniel come back i know you wanted to weigh in here we want to just bring in a brief report and then id like to come to you right after that so even between the close neighbors in the European Union not only the effect of the virus but also the responses to it have diverged pretty widely the lockdown restrictions here in germany for example were never as drastic as those in france and in fact are now slowly being relaxed my thoughts about our colleague michaud they could has this short report from berlin 4 weeks into nationwide contact restrictions the government is beginning to loosen its tight grip on public life and german chancellor Angela Merkel is cautioning germans to be responsible with their regained freedoms then be at all female lockwood now lifting some of these restrictions but we dont know exactly what the consequences will be. And thats why we have to take this slowly step by step. It would be a great shame if we now knowingly had it into relapse. At varying speeds German Federal states are allowing medium size shops to open but hotels and restaurants have to remain closed people on the streets of berlin not torn between a sense of relief and concern. And style lifting the restrictions to mean go both way is it really depends on how sensibly people behave now emitted no government. When most right their life must go on im not worried that people are going to drop dead around me. By the lord to the shops and people just dont keep their distance you cannot imagine how many wont pass just 5 centimeters away from me and i stand by love for. Public backing for the restrictions imposed has so far been always upwards of 90 percent and im going to mount calls Approval Ratings have also sought Germanys Health system has so far been spared being pushed to the limit now the german chancellor is concerned that germans may over celebrate the easing of prescriptions and it will take at least 2 weeks until she finds out. So let me ask any convent do you share the chancellor is concerned about a premature relaxation of restrictions i know that in a recent interview you praised her leadership for example in comparison with the marshall rhetoric of president knockoffs yes. Internally she is doing well the problem is when she doesnt talk about europe in which we can discuss this after i just want to to come back to the difference between france and germany i think the critics on the german system Health System was exactly the same in the wording before that it was in france we felt so bad. Because there there didnt have enough nurse etc etc the big difference is the federal system the federal system is stronger if its good managed and it is a good manager in germany you have the heads minutes in edge every lenda its white even if they have less money they are there all going as a better lead of these improvised level and this is a big difference between france and germany and i think a part of the German Society will be aware to continue to keep the wonder laugh to meet there will be and a part of our its a problem but at the end you cant lock down for months and months the people in the family dont you cant do it a family with 3 kids in a 60 need apartment is impossible you cant do it 5 with cigarettes and then there it will explode so that all its also the french have to understand that we have to improve existence. Distance etc but we have to open a little bit if not the people who we dont resist to go out without any restrictions because its too hard may i may i just ask my town from marshall to weigh in on this point are you concerned about premature reacts ation of the restrictions. Well i feel that we here members of parliament when we are in discussions with the people of our regions or our constituencies we are raising High Pressure especially from the Business People because they have been there they couldnt they had to work for the last weeks i mean we have programs to support them but lets say those who sell goods in the cities those who run Restaurants Hotels they are basically in a very difficult situation and they are urging us to do must. To do what we can do to relax these districts and regulations and i think for the moment being were going to smooth the way we do instead of eyes we we ask our people to to to cooperate we we try to avoid you know strict measures of course if there is big parties we must be strict and we try to take the people with us and try to make them sensitive due to the fact that weve been not overcome the crisis in the few we just had were need to wait until we have medicare man and vaccination and this will take probably all of almost about a year so we must understand here one benefit is. Again you were just to a certain kind of distance behavior i think we can manage this we can manage it in supermarkets but its its a hot way of which also might be if i may say so differently in the engine countries and maybe during Young Country and in one go other countries because we have different of forms of lets say being close together on not freezing to a distance is different in kind of jersey countries i think we are in between and in southern germany we are somewhat more. State less in amber i think there is a different culture which which we might if that is. Our lets begin. On this issue of the mindset of you can see you can see germany from your window you can almost say since after all its possible you have a tramway line that runs to kevin and on the german side. You heard then you can be there you heard martin brown marshall. Is there a french mindset that makes it harder to observe the rules. And i dont think so or maybe im just going to say before and before answering your question that maybe the 1st difference between france and germany was the. Reaction to facing this crisis in germany they ducked you. Mass you just instructed you and the more loose lockdown in france we have. Where we. Are not a massive distance right that huge debts were reserved for wealthier people and. There we are so good. And now we have a general. May at last something that after tomorrow maybe more than some people. Down there can believe you can see people this way and there is no evidence today apart from. Just one models that dinner or another is better than a specific so i think that we should in our the country with be able to work will have a massive testings right to do so p. C. R. Or so all of their stuff and then out and then proceed by spirits you find look down maybe untruths to people who come through it and i can say that i dont think there is that difference. In france and germany i think it was different its the political discourse of the president michel and why the german president say i think we need to move from fear to trust we should trust people we should trust even in there or in their understanding and begin to understand and began better than what we think they can do yeah one phone call to. Steinmeyer spoke 10 days back he seemed to be all thinking it didnt get the menu and may call for employing martial language in his initial speeches were going to talk more about that in a moment 1st off northwest of where mark is there is the law then border town of carling and there theyve been keeping one essential service open its a report from france 24 dot com a web desk by sample. Of the reader that. You want to. Know. Basis people are looking like again. Hes on the quest for the deposit of human and i want you to the people who even look at message time mcconnell. Read a quote toward another i dont scale in the family. Plan to really listen when you are to get funded. Numb the. Look at it about you. That Mitchell Commission presents vision out of pocket calling us. How fearful of that youre about to. It was on leave and because i want to cause almost feels a kick to just leave it to just you have to get to. Wouldnt like to start from tucson one child about india and one night under. Your tree shot after 5 oclock just. Let me im not your doctor its good you to know it from just a kid. So a great example there of how innovative people capable can become in a crisis necessity being the mother of invention but as you mentioned the town from marshall in fact the border closures have caused a good deal of disruption serious disruption what would you say looking at cross border cooperation as a whole how healthy is Franco German solidarity in general. Basically am i thinking. We hear france and germany im always hearing different views on things but as we discuss together we can find a compromise and if we reach a compromise this all of them can beam down what will 4 of the other Member States of the European Union to follow that is basically how i would like just described. By the ship and im. Very specific partnership of course is the one we are having between the house and us and southwestern germany is specificity bob because we are almost the same college youre on historically even and therefore. I really am very sad about the fact that we have had the border us close and this is counter to go on as i said in the beginning we must open again these borders of coras on them in gaining strict standards of hygenic measurement measures that is quite clear but we must meet again because that is the reason why in europe we build friendships we have a sharing of area all people can move can get together we have these tools in the arrest as Program Europe has build community of common values of. Of democracies and that is the reason why the we can maintain that only if we come together if we talk together and if you have or has to talk in a different way how is your neighbor even might have played your cases and you talk about people in which sooner or later you will not know any more and that is what we have to avoid in the. For you know across border cooperation i will fight for opening the borders again quite soon dr summer after spending the last few days at emergency dispatch. Are you in favor of reopening the border. Well i think. We have a slow soon or later we have to we open the border but we should do 1st is a massive strategy and finding the best way to do it is insert a logical test. Are we we trust of this group because this some studies are in kentucky the struggle university how do you hurt my daughter marshall say thats going to take time are you saying in the interim keep the border shut well i think the border can we often after the 11th of may there are the end of the general left down in front i think it will be it will be a day for that we often ng but must soon i think are in his recent interview with the Financial Times i mean in my core repeated what he said in a National Broadcast here in france a week ago and that is that coming out of this crisis humanity will be rethinking its priorities and that includes he says the European Union sundown them on did he did he concedes thats what he did you open it up but he did want to push it the mushy uniqueness and want to process it and push it pretty close it up would you put it that will you mom. It will punish if you get enough from the city that i did just as soon not find peace to the people of a certain way but we put it a lot into the deal penzance about with a city if you dont if you dont so let me ask 1st of our matter and from our show and then down your cone bandit whether you agree with the french president and what that means quite concretely europes moment of truth more solidarity is germany going to have to put a lot more money on the table to ensure e. U. Recovery. Well i think. We are about to do that they theyre all euro finance ministers have agreed on the dream coins frist had to strengthen the european stability mechanism so that kind of treason might have difficulties to get access to money which could be true for especially for entirely when you have easy access to the easy as i am i just pristine and the 2nd that is for our companies is a Credit Program from the European Investment bank which i think is very important for small for medium size for Big Companies and then the 3rd thing is the socalled sure it will grant that is to support people that. For the moment being i have no work but that good return to their original job and in this meantime need some support in all these free programs germany is prepared to give guarantees these guarantees some up to quite a big amount of billions of euros and i think that is a 1st step the 2nd step will be of course every calorie program which we mired in cruel in the next multi annual Financial Framework of the European Union and of course germany as biggest contributor in the European Union met. Because now the United Kingdom has left as we are a lot of the biggest admit they are that were of course going to give that certain variance only guarantee with those that how weaker and i think these are important. Steps we are taking but of course we need to continue because it is also in our in the germany interest that the complete euro zone have that the European Union. Jaynes stable thats where a lot of german exports go down you can bend it noticeable by omission in that list that to motown for marshall just gave us our of course joint european bonds to Fund Recovery isnt it time for germany to give up its long standing resistance to mutualization of debt at least debt that will be incurred in future for recovery from this pandemic. When when we heard some us or we see the problem you say we are germany is the biggest net payer germany is the biggest net when that of the European Union not only the biggest may play it and i think that all the debate now is you have to make understand psychologically what it means for italy and what it means 1st day of god to go over greece or even other countries the problem is that the italian when you hit they wanted to hear that for their recovery farm germany. Swith sweden they are prepared to risk something for their recovery and this is what i miss by. Chancellor merkel speech it is a yes of cold we will do all the solidarity but we wont risk the in the situation leg to put it in common a front for recovery is that germany with take with france with italy with spain with the other the wrists of the big that mr dubrow see the commission it talks about one in the have been for their recovery you cant do death only if all the country out we are ready to go to guarantee this trial for the recovery and to say we guarantee with say we share the risk this is what the people lead italy in spain and other where they want to hear their share of the risk of the recovery sharing that risk much much time from marshall we can change the name if you like will there be at the end some deal i noticed by the way are emanuel caught in here as the interview that interview with the Financial Times seemed to be hinting that. Theres something in the works between france and germany is germany ready to take that risk but then you can be in the talks about irans air made very clear that we hunted in big risk because these 3 programs which are mentioned before in the years and indeed the European Investment during the sure program form were going to. Meaning that we guarantee more than a 10000000000 euros which we are prepared to lose in the worst case and all these 3 programs are not mantra support of germany but i meant to support the us we have many difficulties now but when i was mentioning that i was talking about the future recovery plans i think that we will be able to find a way that the European Commission that is also true for the sure program for the purpose can. Get an image and money of course the Member States because the European Union has not a problem but it should be the Member States from the National Gems the Member States must always guarantee them and then the amount of guarantees and therefore also the amount the volume of risk print germany in the future will be a lot bigger but let me point out one thing through the euro bonds i am absolutely convinced that if we would have a bit of joy already in the german parliament. The Constitutional Court in germany i would not accept such images lation because in exceeds it goes over their responsibilities we as palin and carryons for their National Budgets can not do what in the euro is nor is bail home we can not give the bond chips to a true true true europe it is all on National Responsibility and im quite. Curious to see how r. And d. Variants of these 3 programs which i mentioned before will be going on here in the board this time but im very sure that the comes to surkov not would not accept such shared decision then let me refer to them to people who werent on time then it can be indeed. The buck stops at germanys Constitutional Court no because its completely right you have 2 things 1st we have to increase their european invented by own income you know you have the c o 2 he comes to see your own income means not that germany pay more that france played more that italy played more but that they are only incomes of europe and this could be the c. E. O. To tax it get the best stick to the digital tax and this would be an enormous increase of the european budget and with that type of a grief you can guarantee more for the record of every cup and debt that the german cause has nothing to say because you have only resource and export import in europe is only so or it doesnt go to one of the other countries so this is a furphy the 2nd thing the recovery funds. Cover every farm in this situation will be guaranteed by the european century by and into the European Center by guarantee their european car all the way back to the politics of the european said even if the German Central Bank say its not constitutional so im not so afraid of that youre this is a strict and so referendum on that theres a great novel let me cut all ties with and i dont have time let me cut that part of the discussion right there because id like to bring in dr cmyk now toward the end of the program to ask for your view dr but they are on how the e. U. Can play a constructive role in recovery you are sitting there in strasbourg in the city where the e. U. Parliament normally meets in fact it did not hold its last session in march it is currently closed and now the e. U. Has offered to the city of strasbourg to deal cope with 19 testing at the facilities of the parliament beyond that gesture what do you think is needed from the e. U. Well 1st i have to thank our german colleagues who are certain transfers of beijing in the ice you bet on permuting us. Doing that continuing we are job on saving people. Remaining ice you that thought that was really a really great act and i want to thank german the german people who have a potent yes im going to call it what we need now and when i heard the discussion we. Are invited to that what can European Union do for. For european people what we need to hear its what europe of mean to me whats going to change how europe can change our health care. Is there how europe can change the situation of the people who have less their jobs and to pollute on fickle north how europe can help the people who are homeless so how we can move from. What was a division of the economy europe how can we move forward who are more integrated maybe more federal a maybe more political europe. In which the social part and the ecology it will question will be i think. What we most need in the next that the next years the great citizens of our in our thoughts see america are very at the heart of it all those 1st responders that you yourself work with every day i want to thank you so much for joining us today from the alsatian capital i want to thank as well Yvonne Marshall for being with us our from berlin then youre convinced its in frankfurt im all for france 24 in paris and i am melinda crane forward that church of l. A. In berlin and let me say thank you as well to all of our viewers for joining us on this premiere this joint edition of the debate were glad you could be with us and we hope to see you again soon bye bye. The eco rebels of the himalayas. A state in northeastern india has switched entirely to Sustainable Agriculture abut how did they pull it off. And what did German Farmers learn from them. 30 minutes on d w. Im going crazy thing in all the time. How to handle our new lives in times of the koran a pandemic d. W. Reporter yes it looks like a good. And shes looking for answers thankfully with the help of many. Thank you is not life as we know it. Our new web series. Ruins morrow with a. Symbol of a long conflict in the philippines. Between the muslims and the christian population. As fighters occupied the city center in 2000. President 2 term. Was told. I. Will never again will hold. The reconquest turned into tragedy. It is not the kind of freedom that leads one. 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