Well congress of families provides a powerful platform for such groups and this week one of its found those alan carlson joins me from Rockford Illinois what lies behind these close connections with russia and why wont he leave the Gay Community a lot of. Alan carlson welcome to conflict zone. The World Congress of families is a very benign name for a group thats credited with inflicting considerable misery on many people around the world these days the Southern Poverty Law Center which has tracked your movement for a very long time so youre one of the Key Driving Forces behind the religious rights global export of homophobia and classifies you as a hate group do you wear that with pride i dont accept the label at all not were not a group at all the Southern Poverty Law Center has its own agenda its own fundraising goals and it distorts the truth of events i. C. s approach and we group yes as a Prolife Group we are firm understandings of the natural family of family based and focused on the procreation bearing of children and we see that as protecting that stanley style that family form is vital to the future of the human race so why is it then the conferences have frequently featured plenty of hate speech havent they let me quote some of them to you tell the l g p t tolerance tyrants is leavened the mafia these homo fascists these rainbow radicals that theyre not welcome to promote their anti religious and anti civilizational propaganda this was from one of the speakers in to police in may 26th seen that certainly fits the hate speech bill doesnt it i dont think something i think you talk some article a conflict over i only different views of human life and human nature. And it also reflects the reality that the l. G. B. Chiba but in some places and in some ways and sometimes has become very. Actually based has focused very much on attacking its opponents and dehumanizing them so that they have a halo now about. Are there the hate groups now are they well certainly they they they bear some of the characteristics of being a hate group yes they are they do not listen to arguments they do not respond to rational arguments they seek to silence people and they seek the silence particularly those who are motivated by religious faith so i yes there is something close to 8 replaced though im not. Propaganda pieces saying that well you have had frequent speaker joe conferences scott lively the man who proclaims that gay people were responsible for the holocaust and the rwandan genocide he was sued in u. S. District court for his role in promoting an antigay law in uganda and the judge ruled the case couldnt be tried in the u. S. But his comments were highly constructive if scott lively he said it added a did a vicious and frightening campaign of repression. By people in uganda this crackpot bigotry he added could be brushed aside as pathetic except for the terrible harm it can cause a question before the court is not whether the defendants actions in aiding and abetting efforts to demonize intimidate an injury l g b t people in uganda constitute violations of International Law they do better really sums up what you and your friends are about doesnt it crackpot bigotry the words of a u. S. District judge well scott likely has not been that close of a friend to this but it is true rip through something of a midair one of my colleagues invited him to a planning meeting and he was there i certainly know its true im not sure and i think scott goes too far and has gone too far so i dont think youre dealing with a representative person of our of our movement or organization i think scotts work bush has the edge to far and i am not i dont affirm it but you havent repudiated him in the past have you. Well actually i have i have a saying saying jacki what i said in a number of interviews that is claims to have influenced policy in places like uganda and russia i said i just dont think are true this is just one example as i said the of the rhetoric used by you is stuff designed to inspire fear and hatred of homosexuals in the in 2014 the w c f claim that its cofa civic dialogue that it had never taken a position for or against so called sodomy laws nor had it attempted to rollback the rights gained by these individuals that was pure nonsense wasnt it the Human Dignity trust claims that through your support fancy gay legislation you helped turn gays in many countries into outlaws outside the protection of the law was that your aim i dont know of any case where we had any direct role or even in any direct role at least in such changes it is true we have never taken a formal view on i guess or current sodomy laws. And in fact my main my focus and my concern when i was certainly right was. In the organization ive retired now but when i was leaving the organization my focus was always on the protection of natural marriage and the understanding is that by and large leaving people alone. In their bedrooms was was birth of illegitimate. What it became an issue is whether they wanted to make Public Policy building around or truly samways forms as some call it i would call it as a builder of rejection of the natural family model and the recently extended should support that and that model alone because thats where children come from thats for sure born its where stable relationships between mothers and fathers are really important finally important to the future of their nations and if youre the children thats been our focus and i think youd be looking at sort of what i recall some say. Not the main message but maybe some extreme edges of things where. I just dont accept the argument where you say you have never attended and i was asian says its never attempted to roll back the rights gained by the l g b t community the w. C. S. Never has never will advocate for any policy that bring harm to innocent individuals but one of your leading lights in africa to raise oka for former w c f person of the year as being key in trying to roll back al g b t rights in africa she strongly supported a gay harsh antigay law in nigeria and this is a law that not only mandated long jail sentences for gay sex but banned gay people from meeting in groups thats policing the bedroom isnt it and thats what she stood for up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex if you feel good about that. Well if youre going to monasteries is a good Roman Catholic and shes been working to defend and protect. The christian understanding of marriage and. And defend and protect children and she thinks im the only one that hasnt done to carlson shes been pushing for laws that provide for up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex im asking you whether you approve of that so i approve of and i sodomy laws of the United States joe nigeria deal with its own issues i think you may be exaggerating her views on some of those things but lets assume that theyre correct again im. Certainly but youre is a different circumstance a different situation different point in its history that we are today so. I will i will say that the research has been a friend of the of the movement. And. Ill just leave it at that and you think it would be fair for somebody to spend 10 years in jail because they love someone of the same sex i think it would be fair that society and law reinforces a protection defends the natural family and that reinforces a protection defense children and protects them from sexual behaviors but youre not healthy for the children youre not on seeing the question doc carson you like to play something you like to play semantic games up to 10 years in jail because you love someone of the same sex whose business is that so you know business somebody is business who people love is it is an American City right here youre right its not my best. But youve spent many many years trying to get people to Police Sexuality personal sexuality. To protect children yes. Thats because nowhere are they casualties your organization has produced more power than in russia your major partner in trying to crack down on the Gay Community where youve been incredibly i would say even brutally successful 5 years after russia passed its law against gay propaganda a law that you personally and the w. C. Have to light it in helping to construct hate crimes against lesbian gay bisexual and transgender people were reported to have doubled do you consider that a good achievement. I dont think youre drawing some conclusions or that may or may not be correct. To may not be related. To the law in russia which again i think was related and focused on russians situations and russian issues and russian historical developments were focused on the protection of children not authorize sure encourage in a directory of an indirect way. 8 actions or to describe it it said no you cannot assist propagandize on sexual radicalism torched children thats a chair but whether you intended it or not in the 6 years after this law was passed police in the semi autonomous region of chechnya felt chechnya felt empowered to launch a massive wave of unlawful detentions beatings and ritual humiliations of men presumed to be gay police kicked them with booted feet beat them with sticks and pipes and tortured several with electric shocks. Why dont you stand up for their rights do you think thats a good thing for police to do with gays. A no i dont and i dont think the right my russian friends would say that was the way the law was intended to be implemented so i dont think it was why dont they say that in public and why dont you say that in public they have to sit in public i just said yeah but why didnt you say it before i actually have when ive been asked the question i mean a few years ago the british actor in mckellen visited moscow he required a bodyguard as he pointed out for one reason only hes gay and thats the kind of russia you praise isnt it the one that presents such a threat to the l g b t community. I present russia then ask how much. A russia terrible period known as communism a terrible century the 20th century massive period of death from slaughter if you logical conflict. Followed by a period when they tried western liberalism not the good kind of western liberalism or the bad track and that left everything run loose and free and they found that their families just a must in collapse and so theyve been trying to put things back together again. And i think those are a pretty good job and the last 1520 years. Not perfect. Certainly has not written the laws that they have but most of them look like big improvement for russia they have done a better job in terms of protecting family and i think children from crete from mercian and the structural bit sexuality thats not healthy for the children as a. Pretty good job and the fact that the kremlin uses laws to silence l g b t activist suppress peaceful protests and sense of online expression is not your concern. Well you say those things i and im not sure what specifics youre talking about it is my concern to that they try to do this as as and as reasonable and honorable way as they chant sometimes that doesnt happen i grant that but i cant sit here and. Condemn her precise specifics which i have not had a chance to look at it but he is a specific in 2014 just off the russia had ceased crimea in an operation almost universally condemned you know managing director at the time larry jacobs declare i think russia is the hope for the world right now to be clear about the context russia had just bought through an International Border and that the staggering state aggression and the w c f was similar tenuously telling the world what a great country russia was you happy that you become a fully fledged p. R. Agency for the kremlin. I was very unhappy for personal w. C. S. Reasons about the wii u. Earlier in incursion the invasion was actually a sion of of the crimea why we had planned a World Congress a family session in moscow for october 24th when we were going to be the primary sponsor and that was on its way to happening the invasion of the crimea took place sanctions were imposed by the United States and by European Union and those sanctions some of them were targeted at people who were involved in the russian meeting we had to cancel our theres a patient you went along anyway you went to you you know people went along anyway and you name the Congress Something different. I wasnt there and you know people did you had people who when i see some some of my allies did and none of them were actual employees of my organization some were contractors who were some of the bases on set or would be an example that i was always a contractor not a white one of our employees well why did you not stand up and condemn the repression that followed russias seizure of crimea. You set yourself up as as a more hands on i face as if one has to choose ones issue is im a historian im a story in a modern europe and i understand the complicated history behind. Relationship trade crimea Ukraine Russia belarus and the old soviet empire. Now i wish they had not done so and sat when i was asked i did but i abide by my issues ive tried to stay focused on the family issues. And like to say my own. Potential to take part in that Moscow Congress which i didnt want to do very much was spoilt by the invasion of the crimea and so i regret it for a very personal reason you dont seem to regret what your own government has been talking about which is that the russian authorities in occupied crimea were continuing and are continuing to persecute and intimidate minority religious congregations you of course said nothing about that either you seem to manage a kind of tunnel visioned up to carlson in which you dont look at the Bigger Picture youre simply interested in your own rights and you dont care whether people repress others or create unfair conditions for them you simply focused on your own issue. You preach a kind of morality to the rest of the world but whats whats moral about the russians persecuting and intimidating minority religious congregations and you staying silent about that whats moral about that. First of all i say i would agree with you i do have a kind of a tunnel vision in terms of the public advocacy of the work ive done i dont reject them because one starts ones once one starts wandering into other questions related questions then there are others or not theres another is pretty sure you lose your focus and no ones going to Pay Attention to you so yes i do have a kind of a tunnel vision on the. Other side a blind eye to to rip pression on a grand scale just to advance your own rather not a definition of what you think a family should be you have no redlines nobodys to shady tomorrow to cook it for you as long as theyre on your side when it comes to the family your happy to deal with the tyrant well i wouldnt say that theres certainly there are lies or some people i dont deal with and you mentioned scott lightly i made it very clear i did want to ask out lightly involved in our work going forward. So i know there are lots and. There with asset and in politics your alliances are with sometimes with people whose maybe youre whose motives are not pure thats all objects when you claim to vote for some from someone for political for other oluseyi like you can sit there and be fully analyze what lays behind that but if you care about humanity you would you would on the lies that if you cared about religious freedom you would care about what the russians have been doing to persecute religious minorities in crimea but youve never spoken publicly about that. Well thats your vast true but i lets lets lets go with what you just set what we have been know it and i think one of the things our involvement in russia has done has been to change the trajectory of the Russian Orthodox church which. Prior to about 20 years ago was very inward looking. Just focused on its own agenda its own the ology its own relationships i think we have helped to bring the Russian Orthodox church into a new kind of a victim and as an acumen as a move. Of. Involving working together for the 1st time. With Roman Catholics with protestants with their even mormons Latter Day Saints Church on a profamily prolife agenda and i think. Its been a dramatic change in the look of the Orthodox Church while they still jealously protect their own privileges and interests in russia i am standing up and i think thats loosening up and i hope maybe weve had some effect and help in doing that but then again you know im not interested in any of that you. Know im interested in all of it but i also understand the limits of my own involvement in these things how much money have the russians given you know group not a single dime no not in terms of sponsorship not in terms of funding you know some of your congresses never received any money that Nice Congress in moscow is funded completely by russian sources but in terms of money passing through our books share. We we have not received anything now. One point i would have happily accepted so that we said we did seek it i would grant that but its really since 24. 00 change 2050 and. Theres not even efforts to seek funding from the russians. Yes there is in terms of money coming into this organization. From russia. Weve never accepted any money and theyre really given any money is another way to put it. Lets talk up to carlson about donald trump youll get your vote in november willie. Probably a serial liar who paid off a point not just to keep quiet becomes the standard bearer for the christian right in america i dont get it is this the best you can do sadly it may be the best you can do right now given the way the american political system works donald trump is a flawed human being like all of us but his flaws are a little more flagrant some last and he has done a superb job somewhat amazingly to promote the prolife agenda to get importunate. Far more consistently than any other. President before and for that youre prepared to youre prepared to look away i mean this is a man so crooked where hes hand picked senior assistants that 6 of them have faced criminal charges the president has authored more than 20000 false or misleading statements since he went to the white house according to the Washington Post a Bipartisan Senate report last week on his Campaign Connections with russia actually described the president and associates of his campaign as often incapable of candor and both republicans and democrats signed off on that what more does trump have to do to lose the support of groups like yours. Well the bill stopped if he stopped. It lamenting policies regulations. Laws involved in Foreign Policy such as the United Nations the stocks are still pouring family and life. But we lose our support. Our american system is a very strong one i in some ways wish we had a european multiparty system and its here right now donald trump is the is the only game in town and hes a full again else flawed character but on these issues hes done remarkably well and hes been better than i anticipated 4 years ago thats causing a final thought you know morality seems very much like a moveable feast on the one hand you condemn l g b t activities because you say that to morrow but youre prepared to really look away from some of the egregious faults of donald trump and his team in the white house was not up doesnt your very selective about morality and you. Im selective on what i do focus on i will grant that yes theres a tunnel vision im focused on the action and promotion of the natural family a family formed by a man and a woman marriage their relationship to to their relatives to the past its the future why because thats where children come from in unstable homes so structure all the research and all of Human History best advice thats the best place to raise children what the west in particular faces a childless true church or as the sexual gender is going forward. Donald trump is a flawed human being is a flawed literal leader but hes the only option there is right now and hes done a better job than anticipated for years i dont consider that im selective morality i think im fairly focused. But. Its an imperfect world and you have to make hard choices in an imperfect world and youre not making it any more perfect by making those choices i you know i think i think i have and i hope i am contributing to a better work out cause and thanks very much for being a comfort zone. However there is so. Whats going on here oh no house of your very own from a printer. Computer games that are killing. My dog needs electricity. Explosions delivers facts. What the future holds all get living in the Digital World shipped. 15 minutes on t w. Nigerian mafia tightens its influence. We investigate the shadowy world of Human Trafficking and told to the victims why do so few go to the police. Was really bad i was afraid i was really trauma past. 77 percent. In 30 minutes on d w. Life on earth one of a kind and. A gigantic coincidence. For the improbable happened. To shoot off of us with the details of the creation of our solar system of the planet is a bit like winning the lottery. What is more unique start september 18th on t. W. Did beethoven in the justice did you did you do. It is it does it out of 16 will lie cheat. Roger told. Me rubber bands or stolen beethoven. Of course the subconscious always one thing is clear to them beethoven is wildly popular. And see assured. With the unsound the biggest composer of all time i cant even begin to imagine a world class one player centralist on a musical journey of discovery. Without a. Star september 16th on the w. This is the news live from berlin indias corona virus cases surpassed 4000000. The countrys leading the world the new infections but the government is sticking to plans to. Open up the economy also coming out. Germanys president calls for an official memorial for the victims of coronavirus. Says the sick and suffering must not be forgotten and says germany must do more to help people in their grief