My favorite google product would be the Search Engine because i use it so much. I google things every day, 50 to a 100 times a day on questions about scroll work tests if anything was pets, youtube, social media, google maps. I would say google docs for my essays and my homework recently. I just google this place. I think that google is change the world change the way we talk with people and how we get things done. I wish i would have invested that im the yahoo 1st came up in peoples they didnt say go, but now you look at google or be like oh, theyre coming up after either by john one control them to go into a car block or the exodus of Ethnic Armenians, it shows no sign of of a, a logs in his valley. We thought wed run to the forest to wait until the situation come down. So we were told that we had to escape. I ran without taking anything of just my family, my duck, if you go to our viewers watching on tv, as in the United States into all of you around the world. Welcome. We begin today, marking a birthday. Google is 25 years old. The company name is now part of our global lingo. When you search for information online, you simply, you know what, you google it. The companys founders, larry page and sergei brand are among the richest people in the world. Now they are Success Story was written during what is referred to as the wild west of the internet. The 1st decade of the century. Hi, new is coming. Gone for high tech, but non, for the sectors power and profits. There are concerns over google, maintaining a monopoly on the market and that it is used as a manipulates, the search results to maximize ad revenue. There are also varies over intellectual property rights, as well as the right deprives. And my 1st guest is one of the worlds authorities on the rise of google, and what the Search Engine has done to media as well as mankind. In 2009, his book with google do forever leads him to an error in which people entrusted the Search Engine with their data. And their hopes for the future. Thats hopeful author is jeff jarvis. Hes a professor of journalist innovation at the City University of new york. Jeff, its good to have you back on the program. You know, weve talked countless times over the years about google social media of the internet. I want us to go back to 2014. I want you to take a listen to what you said here on dw, about google, and what the Search Engine meant for our notion of books take a list. So i think that we treat the book as to wholly, we think that the form it has is the form. It must always have, but its a fairly recent phenomenon. What can a book be now . A book can now be a conversation. A book can be corrected and updated a book can be collaborative and bring in other other other people. A book can link out other information and people can link directly to the ideas within a book. The form of the book can be updated and magnificent ways, and i dont think weve yet begun to experiment with the book being treated as hopefully would you say the same thing today, jeff . No, and in fact i have a new book out called the gutenberg parenthesis and its i, we cant, i say i was wrong and i quote wonderful umberto eco. If i may just for a 2nd, he said the book is like the spoon, scissors, the hammer, the wheels once invented it cannot be improved. And i think echo was right and i was not, you know, you have been somewhat criticized for maybe drinking the koolaid of the time and not easily believing that google and co would always do the, the, the right thing. Is that a valid a description of, of where you just of the zeitgeist of the, of the time . So, i think that googles still claims to be a good company all at all. Im disappointed they keep telling you more products than they are. They say, i think their, their decisions, for example, pulling out of china have been all in all i think proper. But there is a different lesson for us that comes not from google, but for milan mosque. And allowing too much of our Public Discourse to be centralized in one company that could be taken over by a nihilistic nurses. As such as him tells us that we need to be true or to the essence of the internet and the future. That is to say more open distributed. Uh, federated uh is the ethic of the internet. The things are, are equal across the whole net. And i think google has held fairly true to that aspect of facebook less so and twitter under buske, not of all the European Union is where google encountered the strongest head winds. I mean, when it comes to new data privacy, anti trust regulations, does your, in your opinion deserve credit for showing us all signs of this brave new i tech world of mean . Did europe tell the world stop being got over google . Its maybe too much. So i think it under a i, we now see that the, the e c has said that they want to be known for regulate a i that seems odd to be to position your up more as a regulator then as a creator back of the day i often heard european executives and especially people from government, lamenting the europe didnt have its own google in france tried to start one of 1 point, one of always said, is that europe needs to invest more and just complaining and just regulating is not. I think a full some strategy for the future. But 2 things id like for you to consider on this to a birthday, our relationships, the books and our relationship to knowledge and information. And i have a personal library in my home. I still buy books. What about you . As you can see behind me, i have a lot of books, books about books, have you just written the book about books and, and study books through their history from gutenberg, lets be clear that movable type was also done in china and korea before gutenberg. But from gutenberg on in that time, its an amazing history and, and i wanted to look into good, but parenthesis, to the lessons we could learn from our entry into the age of print, as we now leave it as not to say the print dies. What might for newspapers and magazines . Me not to say we forget the lessons of print, but it is to say that we, i think we have time. It took a while for the book to be the books that we know now it took a while for there to be tremendous innovation with printing. That is to say the novels that are gone to some of the essay with one pain in the creation of the newspaper. It took up the other century longer to get the copyright, the business model. Thats a very long timeline for print culture. And were at the very beginning of whatever the heck internet culture is and whatever it is, what we make it. You recently wrote, jeff, that, that the book has many meanings. Um you said that books are companions so that we are not alone there. Consider that and consider that the us Surgeon General earlier this year pointing to social media, said that there is a National Epidemic of loneliness to contend with. How do you square that, sir . As im working on a next book about the internet and in that i did a lot of reading of the research of what we know about our interaction with social media and with the internet as a whole. And media have been engaged in great measure it in a complete moral panic about the internet. Media dont really admit that the internet is a competitor and they dont really know what to do with it. And so we see a lot of coverage, especially since the 2000 election in the civilian 16 election of the us and of the u. K. And the results theyre trying to blame the ills of society on this new thing. The internet thats naive, its wrong. And i think we have to have more faith in ourselves and in our children, going back to the history of books, people complain that the people were gonna spend too much time reading books and part of them. The novels were believed to be corrupt in the morals of women and children. Weve gone through these moral panics with technologies again and again and again and again. And we need to learn at some point that we figure it out. We have to have some faith in ourselves. Ive got less than a minute left, but i want to ask you, um, well google in your opinion, see a 50th birthday i dont know. I think that none of these companies or institutions are forever. Copyright was invented at some point, editing and publishing were institutions that were invented at some point. What i tell my journalism students today is when it is up to them to reconsider these institutions, which ones should be reinvented, re made or replaced. Yeah, i like the 3 are there, jeff jarvis is always good talking with you. Excellent analysis. Good to see. Thank you. Or either by song says it, it has a rest of the, a former leader of the, in the going to call her back region as he was trying to enter armenia. Reuben bar dungeon is a billionaire who made most of his fortune in russia, is detained. Been comes in the week, thats almost a quarter of a corner cupboard box, Ethnic Armenian population fleet, 47000 people, leaving their homes and their lives by streams of cars continue to arrive at the army. And buddha. Some of them have been waiting in line for days to reach safety as a by jones military take a bit of the break way. Region is not going to camera back to last week. Prompted thousands of estimate communions to leave the homes and their lives behind them. Marguerite, dyslexia, and is one of them. She and her family of 12, that the village is soonest. They heard the sounds of messiah nearby crystal. Theyve taken refuge in this hotel in the armenian buddha town. Of course it has become a makeshift shelter. 6 dark for all my shoes, but the only thing that happens all of a sudden the nobody expected it. So there was a no show bundle and we were bummed at night because we didnt know where to go. Logs in is valley. We thought wed run to the forest to wait until the situation come down. So we were told that we had to escape. I ran without taking anything of just my family. My duck is usually an issue. One is jeff, margarita and her family suffered during a 9 months long blockades, imposed by the as the by johnny government. Last december, the enclave was cut off from the outside world that were critical shortages of food to medicine. A new login issue right now. We have no flower new log in. If theres no sugar, no food and you have the girlfriend. I had no milk for my grandkids a lot going nothing. Well, how can one live like that . Most of the refugees found shelter, hearing chorus, just 30 kilometers away from that homeland as a by john has promised to guarantee the safety of s, nicole medians. However, i will agree to assist, they have no choice but to leave possibly forever. I want to go to washington now in bringing us a lot. I didnt touch, but shes a visiting fellow in the center of the United States in europe at the brookings institution, as well as a global opinions kind of calling this stuff, the Washington Post and a senior policy fellow and the European Council on foreign relations. Its good to have you on the program tonight. Let me get your opinion just on the, on the numbers weve seen in between about a 3rd of the Ethnic Armenian population of newborn oak auerbach leave this week. Do you think either by john will ever welcomed him back one day a, a hi change there is too much bad blood between the 2 communities and really 3 wars that are being followed since the breakup of the soviet union. I cannot imagine armenians willing to go back, feeling safe enough to go back and live under us every room in the same way uh, lives 30 years ago, have flood armenian territories, are meaning old territories of this layers and layers of a mutual of historic claims. And im really fairly well documented. Theres 2 of atrocities that have taken off both sides. So this big practically made living together very difficult. You say theres plenty of blame to go around. The armenian population of newborn no power box is suffering this time, but a series theyve suffered in this conflict in the past. Im wondering how are these Current Events . How are they being viewed in either by john . As i say, the regional is not the public is not too focused on the 2 monetary dimension. Rather it seen more as the restoration of also be john sovereignty. Because remember that another new car, but its technically inside. Also based on its feeding in our median dominated armenian populated enclave during the soviet times, armenians and not the res lived there together is even though armenians for the majority. And then later on, there is left in the ninetys how to be even the, during the fighting between the 2 nations. And now its been our medium to be over the past 30 years. But of course, you know, for the republic theres where theres been a strong beach of nationalism since the 2020 war of the refrain is the car. But its also be john, that this is the restoration of also beaten on sovereignty. Talk to me about what, what has changed in either by john to put the country and a strong position that it didnt have, as you said in the 19 ninetys when armine approved strong, as well as there is now an incredible as to which we are in power in between these 2 countries, which is the reverse of what it was during the breakup of the soviet union. Army was backed by russia and had, uh, i was gonna be, john was disrupted for in the survey. And in the ninetys, armenians were able to capture. So when youre there a board or soviet porters, i should say, and lead to a number of refugee flows. But now we have a reverse situation. Also be john has grown new. Its how really very strong it gets along with russia, but is strongly backed by turkey in a military economy. Partnership does not like any, say, a historically, even though theres like a tennessee between these 2 countries. A, there has never been this level of unity 2020 more. It was a direct support from turkey. And of course, you know, at present or no one makes no secret of his support for any of a president on the other page to be on that observation. Has a good relations with his real, relatively good relations with you, because it has stepped in as an alternative Energy Source of since the beginning of the war in ukraine to replace the russian gas in a sense. Obviously not all of it, but its significant enough that you uh the deuce of being at causing us to be john as an alternative energy partner. While you present as being, holding talks between a strong shell is beautiful between positive b john and armenia. The issue that weve seen now over this recent episode is how i dont coverage if the union has because it has because the germ needs from United States. Ringback from european meters for there to be in the military solution to the issue. If not there are no car about pulling. 0 of age on to not see community at ways to settle this issue. But it seems like you p leverage over us are beautiful and its actually rather slim. And id like to get your take then on. What do you think turkey is seeing when it looks at this situation and when it looks at this unprecedented geopolitical power equation that is before. Now what do you think it officially at error one, what c . Thank you as well. I think that there is almost an im conditional support for us of age on the do factor position. I think turkey would also likes to normalize relations with armenia and open its order, but not at the expense of its relations without the beach on. In other words, the father based on is to pursue peace. Turkey goes along with that and might like it. But if they are to pursue war, uh they will support that option too. So terminates position is just unconditionally linked to the re position. But we dont the broader strategic level, they seem to want the restoration of trade, which opens up the turkish trades into central asia and, and all the way to the rest of asia. This is a corey during middle core door that already wants, sees as an alternative to other routes that are bypassing turn. Key at sort of turkeys is word extension, but that requires the normalization of ties between turkey in our media. And its just not clear at this point of whether or not the tensions between the 2 countries between also based on at armenia is, is going to end with this episode, another article rebel or continue in the next few months. But let me just ask you, weve got about 30 seconds left, you know, considering the just the power structure right now in the region. I mean, how likely is that we can see this conflict . No. Blaze out into a bigger more. Do you think thats even possible now . I think dodge, because this is a call cases. So we can never be certain. We have to be cautious about the worst case scenario. So this is really the time to push the page on and armenia in to the back to the negotiating table to sign a piece deal. This more has to end here because now both countries have their sovereign territory and they should now sign a piece you and youre can be the architecture of that. And we will see if it happens, it could be in brussels as well. I didnt touch bosh, its good to have you, but its not. We appreciate excellent analysis on this situation. Thank you. Thank 6 young people from portugal are taking all of the countries of the European Union and several others to court these activists, these plaintiffs, or between the ages of 11 and 24. They filed a case with the European Court of human rights, and they are accusing the countries of inaction on global warming. And thus they say violating their fundamental rights. The activision, their supporters are in strossberg, where the hearing opened today, 6 young people and the lawyers against 32 countries, they say simply on doing enough to stop global warming. These activists have come to strasbourg to argue that the Climate Policies of all the e. U. Member states, as well as britain, switzerland, norway tacky, and russia, a so inadequate the violating that human rights. Todays case is about the young. This is about the place that they are paying for the failure of states to tackle the claimants emergency. It says about the home that they will suffer during their life times unless these step up to their responsibilities. A group range and aid from 11. 00 to 24. 00 were moved to bring that case by the huge wildfires. And then they took portugal back in 2017. More than a 100 people died with scientists and Climate Change have made the flies was. Now the activists are hoping the european quote of human rights can false governments to drastic may accelerate the efforts to combat global warming. You, when has warned current targets put the world on costs, but catastrophic climate breakdown. Sped what i expect from government all the time while im at the shop for something that is real is a, this is a main problem because its so infringing on our human right . Its mostly like 2 months. I declare a full that can happen. Theyll need to persuade the quotes the judges of the case with lawyers for the defending governments. Arguing the 6 young activists have improved a direct link between the homes. They say theyve suffered and that Climate Policies would need to be as roseborough charge. Hes covering the story force, or dozens of lawyers in the court room as the European Court of human rights starts to hear. The legal arguments in before days where the a landmark case brought by these young people age between 11 and 24 and supported by the non profit group, the global legal action network. Now, these young people are coming to court with arguments outside what they say is a risk to their Health Promotion prompted by Climate Change. Because they say wildfires in portugal they argue are directly caused by Climate Change. Theyre talking about risks to their health. For example, theyve brought arguments that, but were still retreat illnesses of disruption to their sleep. And they say that this is impacting on their right to life, which has been trained in the European Convention on human rights. But theyre also bringing in arguments about discrimination because they say, as children and young people, very generation is particularly affected by the impacts of Climate Change. Or after this hearing judges, i think youre being court of human rights will deliberate. We dont have an exact time late on when they will come to a decision, but its likely or expected, at least that could be sometime in the 1st half of 2024. If the court sites with the complainants with these young people, the countries involved could be mandated, Court Ordered to rapidly accelerate their progress toward slashing emissions. But there is quite a lot of legal hurdles to jump before guessing theyre the countries involved have been arguing not only that they are taking action against Climate Change, but also theyre bringing a lot of technical legal arguments. For example, if i, whether or not the court has the appropriate or right jurisdiction to actually hear this case. And one thing theyre bringing off is that usually for a case to reach the repeating court if Human Rights National legal remedies would have had to be exhausted. So complaints would have had to bring a court to their National Jurisdiction that before it would get to this top court in strasburg, thats not happens in this case. So it will of course, be down to judges to decide age. Since the complainants bro, this case of back in 2020, and since they were inspired to do so by those wild fires in portugal in 2017 of course weve seen many more wildfires across europe and also other incidents as of extreme weather for example, floods. So that certainly has to go some way to focusing governments mines in terms of addressing Climate Change. But certainly those activists in court today and many others would say, but e governments simply have not yet done enough virtual reporting there the day is almost done. The conversation continues online and remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day well see you then everybody the, the quick stricken regions of turkey facing asbestos. 7 months after the disaster, the home full dust chose yet to so i. So the d. W report is examined the extent of the content of nation which took here so sorry, sees, continue to deny logo us in 30 minutes on the w to there, tiny yet vital micro chips. Without them, the Global Economy would grind to a halt. The race to produce and secure access to these minuscule components is on. But real subsidies making important superfluous in the future borders. Germanys economic survival requires a different strategy made into m. And in 90 minutes on d. W. Are you ready to get a little more extreme . These places in europe of smashing over just gripped the treasure map for modern globe charges. Some of the europe sway called breaking side on your max. You choose the sometimes a seed is all you need to allow the big ideas to grow. Were bringing an Environmental Conservation to life with learning impacts like global ideas. We will show you how Climate Change and Environmental Conservation is taking shape around the world and how we can make a difference. Knowledge grows through sharing, download it now from the the and the discovery change your mind just click away, find out best document, freeze on you to see the world, the subscribe. Now to dw talking entry the, this is dw news live in from berlin. Tonight, the us soldier who walked into north korea has been kicked out of the country. 2 months ago. Private Travis King Cross the border from south korea into the north. Apparently he told the north koreans he did that because he was disillusion with the u. S. Also coming up, i think armenians are fleeing of warner car lock in their thousands of cars crammed the road into armine as almost a quarter of the population escaped visor by johns takeover of the region. And a storm named leon sweeping across greece flooding rose