The same way, they call 101 aa ukraine i, oleksandr sklyar, was born and grew up in kharkiv, in a city that suffers daily from russian weapons. I know that poltava has become a home for tens of thousands of displaced people, and for me it is a second hometown, where the best years of my career have passed. Thank you to the armed forces of ukraine for the opportunity to play football, there are discounts for exik 20 in pharmacies podorozhnyk bam and save, see this week in the program judicial control with tetyana shustrova, why do not virtuous judges retire with honor, this is absolutely not in accordance with the law, nor with logic , nor with the activities of the Supreme Council of justice, and how the judge who released the drugimpaired driver received lifetime benefits specifically, we will say that he there are more buns with poppy seeds, watch on thursday, august 3 at 17 45 the judicial control program with tetyana shustrova on the espresso tv channel, watch this Weeks Program collaborators traitors from the village of orlovo who started to build a career under the occupiers, i came, i decided, thank you, its good to humble yourself, you came to this, they made a clan of conformists took control of the school, watch the program of collaborators with Olena Kononenko on the espresso tv channel on wednesday, august 2 at 17 45 freedom is here, guests are here every day, this is the shipping district of kherson, we are on live, we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut, we tell the main thing on weekdays at 9 00 Andriy Yanitskyi keeps the economy under control, yes, we are talking about news economy on the espresso channel, but its not about dry numbers and clear terms, its about the economy, its about the ability to analyze, forecast and get a profit, about what currency rates will be, salaries and pensions, and how product prices will change, information about everything that affects our wallet and informed means armed, watch the economy news project with andriy yanitsky on weekdays at 8 10 not espresso, dad, who were you during the war , a defender, a defender , congratulations, friends, this is a worldview program my name is vasyl zima today we gathered to to talk about a new world order from the horde sequorum, is the war that is happening today in ukraine really one of the elements, or maybe even the epicenter of the formation of this new world order, how powerful and key world players are playing in this war and around this war, what can be the place ukraine in the new world order is this just the conjecture of conspiracy theorists and nothing of the sort is happening, we are simply dealing with a local war that will not resolve the balance of power in the world after its completion by what i have invited to the conversation interesting experts and guests you know are already in touch with us yevhen magda, he is the executive director of the institute of world politics. Yevhen, i congratulate you. I congratulate you. Vasyl. In your opinion, not in your opinion. In your opinion. In your opinion, is the war in ukraine today the epicenter, or perhaps one of the elements of the formation of a new world order . Will change the balance of power in the world and the key world players around this war are not forming this new world order now please we are observing a paradoxical situation on the one hand the russianukrainian war is obviously the most powerful largest in the world in the 21st century and in europe after 1945 this is for sure and we we see how this situation actually develops, how the threats to use Nuclear Weapons sound, what are the consequences of this war , but the russianukrainian war is not a world war, and this is evidenced by the fact that on the one hand ukraine is supported by the rammstein coalition, and on the other hand, you know, belarus is on a tight leash with russia and in free swimming, iran is there, somewhere behind china and behind russia, but still not in such a way as to spoil relations with the United States with i see the European Union in this way then. Is it possible to say that this war came as a surprise to the key players, or would i like to voice certain theses . Maybe they are conspiracy theories, but in any case, people should have professional answers to them, because listening to conspiracy theorists is especially these people who talk about er reptilians, by the way, about the sudden ones, i immediately remember er , yesterday a statement was made. Im sorry that im a little distracted, but this is not a distraction, its related to the topic i was teaching. Yesterday, a statement was made by a former representative of the intelligence of the United States of america, he participated in open hearings in the congress in the United States of america and er he said that er in the pentagon the department of defense of the United States of america there are samples of nonhumans there are nonhuman biological samples he did not say extraterrestrials but not human biological samples on such on the fact that the pentagon also has samples of extraterrestrial aircraft this and after that a tweet appeared that is why it was a tweet by dmitry medvedev, the former president of the Russian Federation, now he is the deputy head of the Security Council and the Russian Federation, he said there he took a photo of Zelensky Biden er, the scoundrel macron told a few more people and called them vertebrates , that is, there are enough people who can call everything they see around reptilian extraterrestrial beings who are waging their war on earth here, but we will be on this is to look at it from the point of view of science and from the point of view of common sense, so if we talk about conspiracy, the words are that this is a war between the states and russia, or the states of russia , china, or the europeans of europe, the states of russia, china, its just that it is happening today on the territory of Ukraine Ukraine was so happened that it became the bridgehead of this war in which the new world is brewing in kazan , can we say that or did this war really become unexpected and it was not some kind of preparation for world showdowns between superpowers. Unfortunately, this war was expected because, in any case, western intelligence knew about a largescale invasion several months before its implementation, but uh , in any case, and they reported this information to the relevant ukrainian officials, but on the one hand, on the other hand, it can be said that we are dealing with an aspiration for russia to subjugate the world as and where it is only possible, that is, russia is trying to bluff because anya is economic. As the experience of more than 500 days has shown , anya does not have enough military capabilities to be such a bright militarypolitical player russia has its shortcomings, eh, well, you know how eh, its certainly a sad anecdote, but the fact that she could reach the atlantic there, yes, but she caught bakhmut, and this is evidence that the Russian Military machine is far from the same as it is not as powerful as her they often mythologized there and said that she can do everything and is basically capable of everything, this is not the case , they are not all of them, they are not capable of everything, they are not capable of everything, and we will do it. Mobilized during the great war the west, the european west, first of all, in supporting ukraine, in condemning russia, in imposing sanctions against russia, with every day of this war, the pressure of the west and monolithicity is getting stronger, stronger. It received a new member on the 31st this is finland and sweden on the 32nd. Actually, this issue can be resolved in the near future, and i hope that the 33rd member of nato can become , say, ukraine, but in any case nato expanded, this is also a consequence of this war, because if it were not for this war, finland would not have thought about joining nato, and everything was fine before that. No, russia did not threaten it in any way with its aggressive behavior, and this is already certain changes. And this block that russia formed for itself, did not complete the formation of such a postsoviet one, has also now given a crack, because the odkb is not as monolithic as it was, and ukraine, well , obviously, will definitely not become a member of this treaty on collective security, that is, some cracks have gone, some new formations have well, lets say how finlands accession to nato, is it possible to say that this is still a war between two powers, the west and the east, and here the question is either russia will grow even more or the west will grow, and then we can say that in ukraine it is now being resolved or not only in for ukraine, ukraine really became the main battlefield for this war, and it is sad to realize that the losses we are suffering are huge, and in principle, frankly speaking, we will be restoring the economy of ukraine for a long time, and we will not be able to return anyone who died, it is true reality, you can talk for a long time about what became the causes of the war , but there is a moment that is worth paying attention to. Ukraine was written off completely on the eve of the war, that is, they said that it simply would not be able to resist or that it would collapse under russian pressure, that they, the Ukrainian Army would cease to exist literally a couple of days after the russian invasion, this did not happen. And we convinced everyone that ukraine exists as a state and will continue to exist as a state on the european political arena, and will do it quite successfully. Managed to achieve everything with the joint efforts of millions of our citizens and this is evidence that ukraine as a state took place, this is one of the main consequences of the russianukrainian war at the moment that ukraine does not always position itself as a point in the confrontation between good and evil. I think this is a very big mistake because it is in this context that we have to show ourselves it is in this context that we have to talk about ourselves in this context that we have to demonstrate that ukraine is a state that is capable of achieving greater success we are now we are completing the process of forming the ukrainian political nation, and the war with russia is the catalyst of this process, a very powerful catalyst that we must also Pay Attention to and work effectively with it. I think that we will be able to achieve appropriate success and i think that we will be able to be among the country which will shape the new world order, but for this we need not only to talk why am i in nato, why are we not in the European Union, for this we need our internal changes if we are on the way to victory with russia in the war with russia in fact, in certain moments, turn into russia lite. This is absolutely not the case that we, well, actually need. Now im going to ask you about something that i often read on social networks, uh, of people who, well, mostly people who write now, of course somewhere they already feel tension and stress and pain, well, ukrainians are not the same as they were before february 24 last year, and somewhere some kind of fatigue, emotions are running high and you want to blame someone else for starting this war. We remember that the day before, it was nato in vilnius and so on at the same time, statements were heard by themselves and from individual politicians. By the way, complicated things, first of all, that if it wasnt too much, then the war would not have started. Well, its almost as if the west almost pushed for this war, but could, could, stop it all. I dont i know how i would write a book about the first year of the war. I studied a lot. What did the diplomats of the politicians of britain, europe, and america do . Well, i did not see any incitement to war there. People did everything they could do diplomatically. Maybe somewhere they did not resort to some more radical steps. But again anyway radical steps must be calculated, they cannot be resorted to just like that, and that is why the question sounds like this. This is nato s rejection of russias proposal when, late at night in february , the ambassador of the United States of america to russia came to the buildingcompletion of this ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation and gave it, the deputy minister came out, he visited him with this rejection of the proposals not to expand nato, and there were other proposals from russia, and the following words are heard here. To expand to the east, and then they took after some time and expanded, but there would be no war , do you agree with this thesis or not . No, i do not agree, because russia had clear enough plans for ukraine and the development of hostilities. At the end of february 22 , this is evidence russia wanted to enter kyiv, change the government in kyiv, and after that do everything to make ukraine a territory completely subordinate to russia , so that ukrainian resources would work for russia, and then russia would begin to move further into poland further to belarus, further to moldova, further to the baltic countries, there is no doubt that ukraine has become a stone on which the russians broke their teeth, and this is objective. At the present moment , the reality is therefore to expect that the russians could change their mind there. No, i draw such a conclusion from one simple thing they have the mechanism of dehumanization of ukrainians was launched a long time ago, it functioned effectively and, accordingly, was supposed to bring the necessary consequences, that is , it can be said exactly the same that russia tried to undermine european capabilities and european capabilities, but this did not happen russia is stuck in ukraine and ukraine has really turned into a shield for a number of european states. However, we protect ourselves first of all and then all other europeans. Western politicians are behaving differently now. Well, they all behave differently. Some are more decisive than the british, some are less decisive, but in any case, everyone understands in one way or another that russia is an existential threat to the west. A civilization that actually grew out of the former ancient greek civilization from its values, and roman civilization is a phrase from the time of napoleon, and many laws were also written , because the europeans now live on the sidelines , but thats what i wanted to ask about, is it not stopping our westerners today . Partners, here are the leaders of this western world, according to the anglosaxon education, they also call it well, what they do not see until the end and what will the new world be, because from this war they still set the new world everything that brings death, then brings life therefore, this will be life, but it will not be the same as it was before february 24. Do you think that the west will quickly understand, first of all, and maybe our partners around the world what this new world will be like . Because it seems to me that there is a misunderstanding of what will boil in this cauldron of war which is happening in ukraine today is slowing down the partners a bit, because either you have to push harder, give more weapons, and then you can do something wrong, that is, you dont understand what will come out of this, i can come up with something even worse, or maybe there will be more of a threat, maybe it wont be as we planned and heres the misunderstanding of what this nouveaunovus horde will be like with a sekvor, hes slowing down somewhere and theyre waiting , they think well, lets see, well, now there will be another counteroffensive anu, then well see whats on the drinks anu wait wait or maybe russia will fall earlier but maybe putin will die and this is slowing down because there is no determination to say the new world will be like this and we have to do everything to make it like this and there will be no questions but suddenly it wont be like that and suddenly something will go wrong dont you think that this is a misunderstanding to the end of the new model of the world, at least in part of this world, it is somewhere and forces our partners to continue to look at the map of hostilities, to expect what will cook again in this hellish kazan of the ukrainian ukrainian war. I think that the world will be multivector, this is already clear. I think that the west is afraid of a World Without russia in in the sense that a World Without russia will strengthen chinas position, and i think that the role of regional alliances will grow in this world, and in this context, ukraine as a state that in the 21st century is the first to actually defend its independence with weapons in hand in conditions where its loss, the loss of independence could have huge consequences. It should claim to be a leader, one of the leaders of the modern world, it should be clearly understood that we have, but our leadership it will not be instantaneous even after our victory in the war with in russia, it will not become a onetime thing. You should not think that everyone will come and bring the keys to the bank from the president ial palaces or from the offices of the prime ministers of european countries. No, we need to change within the country, we need to to build relations with our neighbors, because i am sure that only through strong relations with our neighbors we can build an effective state, we need to act so that we do not feel sad for ourselves and look for effective opportunities in order to quickly rebuild and build a strong state, because at the moment, for example, the question the dismantling of russia has somehow gone off the agenda, the truth is, and this means that even the victory of ukraine will cause the restoration of its territorial integrity. Only a certain step, but not a complete one. In my opinion there will also be a problem, that is, we will not have time to rest on our laurels after victory, we have to live and fight on, we have no other way out, and we have to convey to our partners that the preservation of russia in its current form will become a deferred threat that may not necessarily shoot across the territory of ukraine, which can shoot at another state that russia decides to challenge, and it will once again become a serious problem for the world. Thank you, mr. Yevgeny. Thank you for taking the time to join and give your professional comments. Yevhen makda, executive director of the institute of world the politician and the writer were not in touch with us, we are proud of him, we respect him, we wish him a good day and we will include in the conversation the next guest with whom we will continue the discussion of this important topic this is oleksiy gran, the scientific director of the democratic initiatives of psiv foundation. I congratulate you and the professor of kyivmohyla Academy Professor of Political Science at the Mohyla Academy mr. Oleksiy i congratulate you, even if it is more precisely comparative Political Science, lets compare everything in the world compare well, actually , lets compare now, ill put you a question you know, somewhere with success, somewhere with success, people who want to know more continue to look for answers, and having certain fragments at their disposal, they want to make a complete picture, but this complete picture is not always made up, there are always some elements or some knowledge that people lack, or do you think that the war in ukraine , which is ongoing today, is the cauldron in which this new world order is being brewed, shouldnt we think so globally and lets just say that this is a local war in which the fate of the state of ukraine, its independence, is being decided sovereignty and its territorial borders, what will they be and everything and no new world order will be formed here because of this war. What is your opinion, vasyl . Well, you know the answer. That is, this is more of a rhetorical question on your part, and in this case, yes , it is definitely a test. In general, to the whole world and how this world will be, what this world will look like. Excuse me, here i have a little like this, this is me from home. And how this world will look like , why is this not a local war . We understand very well, because this is a violation, actually everyone is all the rules of the global world order, and if it succeeded in russia, we can already see that it will not succeed. But it sounded like the victory of the law of the jungle, so thats why the power of those countries that strive to protect freedom, democracy, but also territorial integrity is being tested now. We see that the old institutions do not work, why did i move from freedom and democracy to territorial integrity, because well, in fact, we know that in the world, by far , all countries are democratic, and even these countries, which, lets say, are part of those countries that they are now voting in the organizations of the United Nations for the territorial integrity of ukraine, they are not democratic. Yes, here we are practically all arab countries, the majority , the vast majority of arab countries support us , with the exception of syria, eritrea and algeria. Yes, but well , it is difficult to call them successful democracies. Africa, that is, for them, lets say this is the slogan that we talk about in europe in the west, that it is a struggle of dictatorship with democracy or democracy against dictatorship, it does not work for them, but for them the slogans of territorial integrity work for them. It works for them. The slogans are pragmatic, that is, food security, Energy Security , freedom of navigation, environmental security, the admissibility of hiding Nuclear Weapons. To agree with him. Look, lets remember that when the soviet union collapsed, francis fokuyami, whom we all love because he defends such a proukrainian position, but then he made an incorrect prediction. He said that everything was over. History, the world will be this is the victory of such a liberal democracy, and in fact the path has become politically polar , but we understood that in reality everything will be much more complicated and we saw that the world and new centers of power are growing in the world and it is not only china , but these Regional Centers in different parts of the world, and the threat that the world will turn into a multipolar one, and from a multipolar one into a semipolar one, but not like it was during the cold war, that is, then there was a bipolarity of the usa, the ussr, and now the usa and china