Consultant and former labour aide stella santykiu, and the former conservative mp michael brown. As always, i want to hear from you. Its a crucial part of the programme. Email me. Mail. Margaret gbnews. Com. But now its what weve all been waiting for. The news bulletin with sam francis. Francis. Jacob, thank you very much. And good evening to you. Its just after 8 00 leading the news this evening, just after 8 00 leading the news this evening , the defence this evening, the defence secretary says state involvement in a cyber attack on the ministry of defence cant be ruled out. But he refused to confirm if china was the culprit. Beijing strongly denied it was behind the hack, calling the accusations completely fabricated. Up to 272,000 british personnel may have had their details compromised. And their details compromised. And speaking in the house of commons, grant shapps said it shows that the world is, he says, becoming a more dangerous place for reasons of National Security. We cant release further details of the suspected cyber activity behind this incident. However, i can confirm to the house that we do have indications that this was the suspected work of a malign actor and we cannot rule out state involvement. This incident is further proof that the uk is facing rising and evolving threats. Grant shapps, speaking earlier in the commons. Well, in scotland, john swinney says hes over the moon to be voted in as the scottish parliaments choice to be their next first minister. He was backed by 64 of his colleagues and his name will now be submitted to the king. He replaces humza yousaf, who sent his own official letter to king charles earlier confirming he was stepping down and staying in scotland, where ministers have been warned that children there who question their gender are being referred to clinics because some doctors are fearful of toxic debate. The author of the cass review told the Health Committee in scotland, theres fearfulness among Health Professionals who dont know how to treat gender issues that some children face. Doctor hilary cass suggests the toxic nature of the gender debate means that some doctors are afraid of doing or saying the wrong thing, leaving children with inadequate care. Labours newest mp has care. Labours newest mp has taken his seat in the house of commons after labour won the by election in blackpool south. Chris webb beat conservative david jones in the Third Largest swing to labour from conservative in a by election since the second world war. Sir keir starmer has suggested its a sign of things to come in the general election. And weve heard tonight that a man has appeared in court charged with attempted murder after a chainsaw incident in a residential street on bank houday residential street on bank holiday monday. Residential street on bank holiday monday. Footage on holiday monday. Footage on social media showed the 30 year old wielding a chainsaw and chasing Police Officers down a road in broad daylight. Two road in broad daylight. Two officers were later treated for injuries. Liridon kastrati has also been charged with breach of the peace possession of an offensive weapon and four road traffic offences. Hes been traffic offences. Hes been remanded in custody and will appearin remanded in custody and will appear in court again within the next eight days. And finally , next eight days. And finally, before we hand back to jacob in westminster, weve been told that prince harry wont be visiting the king while hes in the uk this week because of his majestys full program. Harry landed in london this morning ahead of an event marking ten years since the Invictus Games launched. Years since the Invictus Games launched. A spokesperson for the launched. A spokesperson for the duke of sussex told us the prince understands his fathers commitment and hopes to see him soon. Thats the latest from the newsroom. Ill be back with newsroom. Ill be back with another update at 9 00. Until then, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the code on your screen or go to gb news. Common alerts. Well, welcome back to state of the nation. This is not the time for panglossian spin. Last weeks Election Results were a thumping defeat for the tories and a warning of what is likely to follow at a general election. Although labour under keir starmer is not as popular as new labour under blair, the electorate is wary of a conservative party that has no vision. All we seem to offer is vision. All we seem to offer is an arguably competent management of the status quo, which the labour party seeks to mimic. Yet the status quo is not good enough. Public services are not of a satisfactory standard at the moment. Hmrc cannot be bothered to answer the telephone and search response targets that it doesnt meet. My sinner motoring infringements lead to driving bans. Unnecessary checks on safe food from the eu will push up prices and stop some goods coming in. The government seems set on managing for the concerns of the manager, not for the voters. This needs to change the voters. This needs to change the voters. This needs to change the little inconveniences of life must be removed and officialdom must work for the citizen, not the other way round. Legal migration needs to be reduced further as it harms the standard of living of the poorest, the most. It can be poorest, the most. It can be brought down by ministerial action and does not need primary legislation. Illegal migration must be dealt with more promptly and flights to rwanda need to become a reality. The war on the become a reality. The war on the motorist must stop 20 mph speed limits removed, as even the Welsh Government has realised they are useless and annoying, and the power of councils to fined for trivial infringements must go. These little routes just make peoples lives a little bit more difficult. Green policies make us cold and poor need to be suspended. Surcharges on electricity ought to fall on the state, not on the consumer or business, making us less competitive. And the ambition for net zero should be delayed until theres Affordable Technology or other countries begin to catch up. The ban on petrol and diesel cars must go, not just be delayed for a few years. We need to build more homes that are beautiful and not ones that have tiny upstairs windows. For Fictional Health and safety purposes. Those and safety purposes. Those entering the workforce today must have the hope of owning their own homes within the next few years, rather than waiting for inheritance. We must stop for inheritance. We must stop the war on our own supporters, our own conservative supporters, by ending the attacks on those who let out property. Whether as who let out property. Whether as houday who let out property. Whether as holiday lets or as short holds. We must stop attacking second home owners, most of whom are probably conservative. We must deal with the terrible marginal rates that led to a constituent. A constituent wrote to me last week saying he is turning down a job, earning £120,000 a year because hes just as well off on £80,000 and has less stress. These vicious marginal rates are damaging to Economic Activity and harsh on the individuals who are affected by them. We must are affected by them. We must support our nation by being proud of its noble history and not giving in to those who hate britain and all that we have achieved. We must not kowtow to the woke agenda or adjust our language to satisfy fanatics. In language to satisfy fanatics. In short, we must be conservative and show ourselves to be on the side of voters. Trust the people is a better slogan than coalition of chaos. As ever, let me know your thoughts. Mail margaret gb news. Com. Well, im joined now by my panel Pr Consultant and former labour aide, stella santykiu , and the aide, stella santykiu, and the former conservative mp michael brown. Michael, you saw all this brown. Michael, you saw all this first hand in 1996. Yeah, surely weve got to get out of this state of denial, admit things are difficult, are really bad and show a route that madness is carrying on, doing the same thing and thinking it will get different results. Well, in an ideal world, i agree with you jacob, but ill be honest and blunt with you. I do not think that under this Prime Minister, things are going to change outside the parameters that he set. But i still dont think that you should despair , you have to go should despair, you have to go into an election with what youve got. Youve got a prime youve got. Youve got a Prime Minister who none of us voted for, none of us outside voted for. I dont think even tory mps voted for him because there was an election. If i remember, inside the tory party so if youre asking what i would like to see as you pose the questions just now, i frankly dont think thats going to happen. But what would you like to see it . Of course, of course, of course, yes. But i think the pubuc course, yes. But i think the public have stopped listening to the tory party. However however, i think that all is not totally lost. There is a record of 14 lost. There is a record of 14 years, and i do commend the paragraphs in William Hagues article in the times this morning when he said, look, there are 4 million more people in work today than there were on the day that David Cameron became Prime Minister, the education standards in this country are far better than 14 years ago. So there are 1 or 2 things if you string together the record that does that might at the margins hold several indeed dozens of conservative members of parliament seats. But if youre looking to rishi sunak to change his policies , i dont to change his policies, i dont think one of the really important points in hagues article was he said, you need to set out your long term view and this is part of the vision of the values that we need to show how. Now. You need to do some things to show were actually serious, but its actually about the long term values that youre aligned with your voter. Of course, youre not just a manager, of course, but, let me say that just before the last general election, ive said this before on your programme, the last general election that i fought in 1997, which i, along with the conservative party lost catastrophically, we did actually have a good story to tell as a consequence of the economic policies that were followed by ken clarke in the run up. But it did us no good whatsoever for, i think that every tory mp that is standing for re election does have to have a belief in their own self and in their own record. No tory mp should go into the election without being optimistic. You are the secretary of state for Somerset North East or whatever the constituency is going to be renamed. You have a record personally to stand on, which i think will carry the day for you. But dont rely on mr sunak. Well, im certainly optimistic about my own chances in my glorious constituency, stellar labour must be rubbing their hands with glee, not just at the results, but then at the response. Theyre not doing it publicly as much, but i cannot hide my feelings, so i have to say i cannot play the game that the two main Political Parties seem to me to be playing, because obviously what what you will hear from spinners , from both hear from spinners, from both parties is, you know, they need these elections to be competitive. They need the activists to feel like they can make a difference by going out there and canvassing. Otherwise people become complacent. And this is a disaster for both parties. I this is a disaster for both parties. I think the results very, very clearly show labour is going to have a massive landslide. Thats what the results show. The polls, whatever we were expecting, the polls, the they have become true. So these are good news overall. Yes and i, i do agree with, michael, to an extent, i do think that a lot of mps will be looking to stand on their personal record. You saw that happening with the mayoral candidates. However, michael, i think if andy street shows us something, it is that it is not going to save everyone. And i think thats a very important point, because if you look at ben houchen and andy street and both of them well known as individuals, the bulk of their vote is still the tory vote. Their personality adds a few points, but on the tory base, it doesnt create the whole of their vote. They didnt manage to beat the national polls. Yes they didnt. The national swing, they didnt. The national swing, they didnt manage to beat the national team. I still think that that it shows. I still think that personality politics, when it comes to the mayoral seats plays a role. But overall, yes, just picking up jacob on on a status point , the mayoral a status point, the Mayoral Election in the West Midlands, though , is the kind of case i am though, is the kind of case i am making for the just 1500 votes out of half a million cast for the two candidates. Now there is a case the tories could have won that. Now he pulled out all the stops as best he could, a little tiny bit more organisation, a little tiny bit more work. Worked very hard, sure, but, it is, it is, cringe making to lose an election by that tighter margin. I an election by that tighter margin. I know an election by that tighter margin. I know all about tight margin. I know all about tight margins. I had a 486 majority in my first election. It shows you campaigning on the ground works. Field organising is important, but if labour has this big majority, doesit labour has this big majority, does it know what to do with it . And i dont mean the slogan, theres no plan. I mean it seems to want to set its stall out as we will do what the tories have been doing. Well just do it a bit more competently. I think this is this is exactly why Rachel Reeves and keir starmer, why theyre being so extremely cautious. Because with great power comes great responsibility and rachel gave a statement, a very important statement, a very important statement this week, as were expecting the inflation rate to come out later this week. And she said what labour will be doing is stability, growth, investment. These are the three main things and a lot of commentators have have pointed out that unlike previous years, you know , new labour, for you know, new labour, for example, they had the minimum wage. They had they had some big policies that commentators could analyse , whereas labour has been analyse, whereas labour has been extremely cautious. And i think the reason exactly why theyre doing it is because the majority looks like its going to be so great. Its actually quite scary. And this is one of the things that in other countries , theres that in other countries, theres a swing to the right and the swing to the right here seems to have happened to the labour party to pretend to be tories. Were not getting that populist right wing following that. Theyre getting another countries. Yeah, i quite agree with that. But ive just come back from a wonderful holiday. So the glass is half full for me. Notwithstanding watching the Election Results from barbados. But nevertheless. But nevertheless theres still things that the tory party can champion. The National Living wage is a triumph for the conservative party. They should be. You know, its been increased from pounds 44. Yeah, exactly. So that is a good news story. Its been increased far story. Its been increased far more than the Labour Government who invented it could ever dream of. So there are some good small things. I of. So there are some good small things. I dont think its probably going to stop starmer from walking into number 10. Well, thank you very much. My panel coming up, the ministry of defence has faced a cyber attack which has put 270,000 personnel at risk. But who was behind it . At risk. But who was behind it . Plus the commercial success that is the sit down with sitwell returns. But william is cycling his way here amidst the chaos of rail strikes. Will he make . Well, 7 well, weve been . Well, weve been talking about the elections and the conservative vision. And youve been firing in your mailbox. Helen says and doesnt mince her words. There is no competent maintenance of the status quo. This government is on quicksand. And the longer they are here, the worse everything gets. And i voted for them. And peter , if voted for them. And peter, if the fraud of hmrc cant be bothered, why should we even bother . Thats a very good question. I think if you didnt pay question. I think if you didnt pay your tax , hmrc might might pay your tax, hmrc might might just were into action. The names, bank details and some addresses of around 270,000 Service Personnel have been exposed in a data breach at the ministry of defence. It has been revealed. Although the government will not name who it suspects to be behind the cyber attack, it was reported last night that china is at the forefront of peoples minds. Secretary of state for defence grant shapps said this to the house of commons earlier today. This was the work, as i say, of a malign actor who compromised a contract to run a network entirely separate from the mod core system. However, as ive said, we cannot at this stage rule out state involvement from elsewhere. The Chinese Government itself has described the suggestion as fabricated and malicious slander probably went on to say of the running dogs of capitalism, thats their usual phraseology. While an investigation has been launched in attack, what does this say about our countrys power to defend itself against hostile states . Well, joining me hostile states . Well, joining me now is the chairman and ceo of the Cyber Security association, chris windley. Chris, thank you very much for joining chris windley. Chris, thank you very much forjoining me. What can we do to stop this sort of thing happening . And do you thing happening . And do you think its got the hallmark of a chinese attack , well, actually chinese attack, well, actually the, the second question first, if you like. Yes, i do , right. If you like. Yes, i do, right. You know, i mean, obviously, this sort of thing could be china. It could be russia, if you like. One of one of our you like. One of one of our enemies. Inverted commas. Right, the people that are, you know, seem keen to attack us, you know, in a non kinetic way, but nevertheless , you know, they are nevertheless, you know, they are attacking us, and in terms of what we can do, i would just say positively of the company thats been hacked , shared services, been hacked, shared services, connected, limited , you know, connected, limited, you know, that they that they did go through the cyber essentials plus certification , right. As plus certification, right. As all organisations that, work for the government, mod police, etc. Are required to do right, and of course they did report, what happened to the ico and, and there will be, you know , an there will be, you know, an investigation from the ico , and investigation from the ico, and you know what weve seen jacob, with the ico is, that they will investigate carefully and theyll make a decision based on on you know, whether they think youve done a good job or not. Right and but thats the least of our worries, isnt it, that the ico may say that the company should have done more or whatever, but actually that a major state is attacking us is a real problem. And we need to think of what other security we can put in place to try and stop it happening again. Or do we do it happening again. Or do we do it back to them . Are we doing it back to them , well, i mean, back to them, well, i mean, where i stand on this, you know, is about time that we reacted to whats going on, and, you know, so first of all, we need to wake up, you know, that we are being attacked by russia, by china, by other countries, and that so we need to wake up, and we need to take action. You know, we are, i as i understand it, we are moving ourselves onto a war footing, if you like, which is exactly the thing that we need to do, i, i personally , have to do, i, i personally, have a lot of communication with ukraine and, ukraine, of course, have a lot to offer us here, i would say. Right, because they are literally on the front line kinetically and from a cyber perspective as well. Well, thank you very much, chris, im joined now by luke de pulford, the executive director of the inter Parliamentary Alliance on china. Time is a bit alliance on china. Time is a bit awkward, isnt it, because president xi is off hobnobbing with president macron, and its not a good look for france , is not a good look for france, is it, that they want to have better relations with a country that cant be trusted . Well, no its not. And perhaps even worse for france is that last week it was revealed that last week it was revealed that in the earlier cyber attack, which was attributed to china by this state sponsored hacking group, apt 31, which also targeted a whole bunch of uk mps. It targeted french senators and that came out last week and was revealed there too. So its terribly embarrassing for them in the midst of this diplomatic. And we cant be confident that its china. Im not maligning them, am i . No, youre not maligning them. I think we can say that pretty confidently. And one of the reasons we can is that, well, certainly government sources have been briefing it all day long to fleet street. I think also, i mean, i was told that there was a bit of an argument within government over attribution. Should we say that this is china or not . There are some forces believing that perhaps this is not a good idea. Its going to hurt us unnecessarily. Some wanting to stick to the protocol, which is to wait quite a long time before attribution. Collect all the evidence, and some saying that for a hack of this severity, 272,000 people, ministry of defence , it requires very urgent defence, it requires very urgent and swift action and this comes to the heart of our relationship with china, that the Foreign Office very much of the kowtow approach, and it always has been , its weak and its not putting british interests first. The mod perhaps being a bit tougher. Tougher. Yeah. I mean, this attack comes in a long line of recent attacks. Some of them are extremely serious. It isnt just the Electoral Commission hack or the Electoral Commission hack or the hack attempted hack on mps. The fbi released news of the vou the fbi released news of the volt typhoon hack, which was extremely serious. This was where Chinese State sponsored hackers had attempted to embed malware in the Critical Infrastructure of china, and it had sat there for up to five years with the ability to temporarily disable it. This is extremely serious stuff , and extremely serious stuff, and this must have an effect on our relationship with china that if the stories are true about their electric cars , that they could electric cars, that they could switch them off. And the mobile telephones that are manufactured by them that are manufactured by them that they could spy on, we need to reconsider all of our supply chains. Yes, i think thats true. Yes, i think thats true. There are a couple of things that really need to happen. We finally have to have the gumption to call china a threat. Deaung gumption to call china a threat. Dealing with beijing as it really is. Certainly our intelligence and Security Services are screaming that from the rooftops. Sadly it seems that government is unwilling to take that step. But in addition to that, we have a fairly useful piece of legislation. The National Security act, and that contains within it the foreign influence registration scheme. Ludicrously, were still having a debate over whether or not china should be in the enhanced tier of that scheme. I think that todays news has to finally put that debate to bed, absolutely. And do we retaliate . Is there anything we can do, or does that just make things worse 7 does that just make things worse . Do we have the capacity to interfere with Chinese State secrets in this way . Well , i was secrets in this way . Well, i was speaking to somebody earlier who described our capacity to deal with these sorts of threats as fighting a house fire with a water pistol, and we simply dont have enough. Again, the fbi director , chris again, the fbi director, chris wray, said not long ago that chinas capabilities outstripped everybody else in the world combined when it came to Cyber Espionage. So theyre in a different league. That includes the us, obviously. Well, yes. Well, yes. But its important to distinguish between espionage and interference because china is doing both. And one of the things thats very clear from our own Security Services is that the reason that china is a threat is not the kind of snooping that nations do upon each other. Its because they want to change the way that our institutions run through the United Front Work Department. The interference of china is, in the words of the intelligence and Security Committee report on china last year is our biggest threat by far and has penetrated every area of the uk economy. How do they change how institutions work by the cyber threat . What concrete changes does this make . Well, there are a number of ways they do it. The United Front Work Department is a sprawling organisation and the influence operations associated with it are , i would say, the with it are, i would say, the fundamental vector for change. And that can be Something Like inculcating dependencies so people are unwilling to perhaps stand up to china or well do the bidding of china, which often and this is like giving money to cambridge colleges and things like that, is buying influence. Is it using the cyber spying to blackmail people . Is that going on . Do we know . Well, certainly its happening at to perpetrate what people call transnational repression. Basically beijings bullying of diaspora abroad. That certainly happens. And it happens through Cyber Espionage and other means. But this kind of worse. They just beat people up. They just beat people up. They just beat people up. We dont have much evidence of that happening in the uk, but it did happen. In of that happening in the uk, but it did happen. In fact, it was it did happen. In fact, it was perpetrated by the consul general in manchester who ended up having to be withdrawn, taken back to china because we didnt have the guts to label him persona non grata and kick him out. But no, this does china respect strength or would it make it worse . I think youre make it worse . I think youre putting your finger on it because Chinese Military strategists, the academic field, understand these kinds of hybrid threats as a form of competition between states. They dont look upon them necessarily as acts of war. They look upon them as ways that china shows its strength. And of course , china responds to and of course, china responds to strength, but its never found strength. In the uk response, at least not in the past 1520 years. Palmerston, who sent a ship up there, south china, up the yellow river, didnt he . Anyway, thank you very much, luke. Coming up as the muslim vote issues 18 demands to sir keir starmer, should we expect british politics to become more and more sectarian . Plus, William Sitwell is peddling his way to westminster amidst the fog of rail strikes. But will he make it . Our breath is bated. Well, weve been marching on and talking about the mod hack. Probably by china. And tracy probably by china. And tracy says we should be more up front and open about the need to defend ourselves against the likes of china and russia. We should show our strength. Should show our strength. Indeed. And, robert, i feel for the Service Personnel who are now worried about their details. Ihope now worried about their details. I hope the support announced by shapps today is sufficient. And i said march on, because those are some of the words from the Chinese National anthem. So they can march on. We can march on faster. Perhaps one of the most striking moments of last weeks local elections was when a Victorious Green Party councillor said this we will not be silent. We will raise the voice of gaza. We will raise the voice of palestine. Palestine. Well, its not much that this councillor went on a vile rant at a leeds rabbi, referring to him as an animal which played a role in the rabbis eventually going into hiding. Role in the rabbis eventually going into hiding. The green going into hiding. The green party has denied prior knowledge of the incident, although the daily mail has claimed it presented the party with a dossier of this evidence in february. Whatever happens, it does point to growing sectarianism in british politics with local councillors making foreign conflicts key campaigning issues. The muslim vote group has issued a list of 18 demands to keir starmer to earn back the votes he lost. But is this the future of multicultural britain . Well, multicultural britain . Well, with me now is my panel Pr Consultant and former labour aide stella santykiu, and the former conservative mp michael brown. Stella. How worried should labour be about this, that, if you look at the West Midlands vote, there was a very large vote for a pro Palestine Group and it made the labour margin very narrow. Group and it made the labour margin very narrow. Is group and it made the labour margin very narrow. Is that margin very narrow. Is that going to have consequences in general election . I dont think its going to be very narrow because 24 of the vote in the general election is not going to go to independent parties, it is going to go to the main parties. And i think that the swing is going to be more in favour of labour. If you look at the actual results, evenin you look at the actual results, even in rochdale, where where George Galloways party ran on every single seat, he only got to win two seats and his his campaign was not just based on gaza, it was also based on economic issues. But does the muslim vote request to keir starmer increase the likelihood of more sectarian politics as labour seeks to consolidate its lead . So this is what i would say. So this is what i would say. I dont think that there is a practical challenge to labour. I dont think that practical labour should be worried. I am personally, politically worried about the animosity that exists between groups in the uk. I think it is a very sad situation i yeah, well that i think is very important, michael, that weve actually done very well on multiculturalism in this country, that weve had pretty peaceful integration and people have become british. This is different, isnt it . Different, isnt it . Yes. But jacob, how often do you and i say to people whose cause that we disagree with stand for election, stand in our democratic process . So, you know, theyve done that and theyve won, i like stella, dont think that the labour party should give way that will cause the labour party far more pain in the long run. That will frighten off the blue wall that theyre trying to win back. And i think weve got to credit to the labour frontbench, i dont think that they will fall for that. But i personally think that. But i personally think that its a very good thing that the green party have got these candidates that have, in 1 or 2 places, got elected , like the places, got elected, like the character weve just seen. I think the people who really the daily mail and indeed all the Political Parties need to scrutinise more than any other party are the smaller parties like the green party . I think on the whole, the labour party has learned its lesson from corbynism to root out. Its quite difficult, though, isnt it . To be fair, even to the big parties, when youre putting up candidates in hundreds of councils across the country, we almost always end up with 1 or 2 who turn out to be pretty awful. Pretty awful. And i think in the grand totality of the thousands of councils that there are up and down this land , there wont be down this land, there wont be many like that. But i do think its better that they come out and put their views before the voters. And if the voters do voters. And if the voters do voters. And if the voters do vote for them, i think we have to accept that. Thats part of our democracy, part of our democracy. But its novel for the interests of other countries to be at the forefront of a British Election campaign. I disagree with that, jacob. I disagree with that, jacob. I disagree with that, jacob. I dont think that its weird at all that politicians, even even if theyre just running in local elections, that they are talking about such an incredibly Important International issue. I mean, Andrew Mitchell, Important International issue. I mean, Andrew Mitchell , the uk mean, Andrew Mitchell, the uk Foreign AffairsForeign Office minister, said today on monday. Sorry, he said that israel is in danger of violating International Law with the assault that they are planning on rafah. And everyone is extremely worried because there are hundreds of thousands of refugees. There are lots of terrible things going on in the world. We were talking about china and the way it treats the uyghurs and what the way it treats the uyghurs and what the 300,000 way it treats the uyghurs and what the 300,000 people who were killed in syria. But these dont turn out to determine our elections. It is odd to have a domestic election on on events that are outside the control of the politicians. Its most definitely not determining our election. People of course, have a right to expect politicians to have certain positions, as there are a lot there are. There are a lot of very valid complaints people can have about israel being a very bad friend to the uk and the uk, really tarnishing its image by the support that we have shown to israel. The un questionable, unquestionable support that we have shown all right, well, speaking of the pro palestine movement, following a number of riots on Us College Campuses in the past few weeks, the protests have spilled over across the atlantic and into the united kingdom. As you can see from the pictures on your screen, students at Cambridge University set up tents on the lawn of Kings College , a college founded Kings College, a college founded by henry vi who also founded eton. You probably know, with protesters claiming the university is complicit in genocide. And the question is, genocide. And the question is, will we see the same degree of unrest that we saw over in the United States . Well, my panel is still with me , michael, why do still with me, michael, why do we have to copy the americans even when it comes to, sort of unshaven youths protesting . Jacob. Twas ever thus. Im 73 years of age. I went up to York University in 1969 for three years, until 1972, a year after the Grosvenor Square riots, my university was in the thick of it, anti apartheid south africa. Danny cohn bendit , danny danny cohn bendit, danny cohn bendit. Ive forgotten his last name. You will know before last name. You will know before my time, and another fellow called tariq ali. The whole of the universe. Vie world. Not the universe. Vie world. Not only oxford and cambridge, but york and everywhere else, was on fire with student protests. And in the end, we deal with it because i think weve got a clip of the germans being quite enthusiastic in there. Ill tell you how we dealt with it. And its to the credit of the conservative government of Margaret Thatcher and john major, in those days, we were paid a student maintenance grant. In those days, i had all my fees paid for me and would have done even if i went to the school that you went to, and mine paved me, too. But why . Mine paved me, too. But why . But now we introduced , but now we introduced, student fees. And if the students are idiotic enough to protest, this protest will pass. Weve had them down in the 60s and 70s. Have a look at what the germans were doing. I want you, i want you to. Came on. You came on. You shame on you, shame on you, shame on you. Well, that was quite a robust response from the german police. Do you think we should be that robust with students, or just allow them to have another day of unshaven . No. Of unshaven . No. I think that if we want freedom of speech, we need to support it. And we need if we if we are to say democratic protest is okay, then i do not see how students camping on campus is not democratic. I basically agree with you. I think people should be allowed freedom of speech and they should be allowed to put their case. At what point do you say that theyre causing so much inconvenience to others , or inconvenience to others, or theyre trespassing and its criminal trespass or aggravated trespass that they should be removed . At no point, the point only anses at no point, the point only arises when they indulge in some kind of criminal activity. So if kind of criminal activity. So if they, if theyre physically threatening to other students, as we have seen some situations, some cases like that in the us, especially towards jewish students, thats the only situation where i would expect it accepted otherwise. Im afraid this is the price we pay for living in a democratic society. Should we get some agreement on this being a price to pay, or do you just. No, im afraid im with stella. I mean, it must be the pina coladas that ive been drinking last week. Im taking a softer view. Students will burn view. Students will burn themselves out of their protest today , as they did in the 1960s. Today, as they did in the 1960s. And 70s, and i think that in the end, you just rain wont it . It will rain. Go home. Thats right. Go home. Thats right. I mean, these these are rich students at oxford and cambridge. They come from good families and they dont do cambridge. They dont do they dont do bad weather, they dont dont do bad weather, they dont do wet clothes. And when its pointed out to the tents that theyre living have been made by uighurs in china, you know, maybe the double standards because they dont bother about details like that. I think just details like that. I think just let it burn itself out. I would hope at least some of them come from working class families. I would hope, you know , oxford and cambridge accept at least some working class students. Im sure working class and poor students are smart enough to get into. Well, theyre very anti authoritarians at the moment in both these places, so its probably not going to be all italians behaving like that anyway. Thank you very much. My panel coming up next, William Sitwell has been velocipedklubb cycling his way over to the studio amidst the backdrop of rail strikes and useless railbuses to make it in time for the return of sit down with sitwell. And the good news is sitwell. And the good news is hes made it in time. Plus two apostrophes matter well, the mail mugs were steaming in. We were talking about sectarian politics and palestine protests. And dave said students would protest against a draft if you left the door open. I spent my life at door open. I spent my life at home protesting against drafts when my children leave, doors open and im not a student. But never mind, kim, freedom of speech is important. It doesnt look like the students are blocking the oxbridge colleges from working. Let them carry on. You might have thought the students would want to be working with finals coming up and all that, and gary says stop all student fees for demonstrating students. Gary is tougher than most of us. Well, bells rang, engines blew off steam, porters shouted, shouted, baggage trucks rattled over the platform. The train began to give up its contents. Now in ones and twos, now in a steady stream. That was pg wodehouse idyllic description of the hustle and bustle of Charing Cross station in 1920. But a little more than 100 years on, it seems that our attitude towards the Great British commute has perhaps become too idyllic and peaceful , with many idyllic and peaceful, with many abandoning the city and instead retreating to a quiet life in the countryside. The consistent tardiness of train services, coupled with the surging cost of tickets and frequent strikes, has led to the widespread withdrawal from the enjoyable nursery hubbub of public life, something that has been eroding since the covid lockdowns. So how do we get the country moving again . Well, im joined now for again . Well, im joined now for a special edition of sit down with sitwell by telegraph writer William Sitwell. William, you William Sitwell. William, you were writing about this today and i was particularly struck by the poor guard who had to apologise to you for the train not only being late, but then they signalled a goods train in front of it. So it just got later and later. And you get a nice refund, but that doesnt quite work. Anyone whos tried gwr delayrepay will realise that actually its a conspiracy to stop you getting your money back because it doesnt work so often. But i wrote this piece in the telegraph basically to say that, you know, were on a kind of theres a sort of lockdown by stealth at the moment. There are so many factors conspiring to kind of keep people at home, if particularly if you live in a rural area , you know where bus rural area, you know where bus services are scarce and when they when they are working, they dont necessarily theyre not amenable to the kind of general rigours of hospitality. You know, you get to the local town and then the bus either isnt going to get you home or there isnt another one. But also, i have to say, and i mean, i only just made it this evening into this, into onto your show because my gwr train was late and i, you know, one feels for the guards probably going on strike tomorrow because they have this sort of constant apology and we were stuck in front of a stopping train last week. It was a freight train. The driver was delayed getting to taunton. So, you know , the to taunton. So, you know, the train had to wait while getting to plymouth or whatever. He started with penzance. So the train was late leaving, and also i mean, there are some trains. I mean i always thought that virgin now avanti those that Rolling Stock at least the lights were kind of dimmed. I lights were kind of dimmed. I mean, these days, if you have a decent lunch in london, you get on a train at 4 00. Its like youre being interrogated by nazis, the lights so bright. So its not conducive to travel, has become a nightmare. Its not pleasant. And you cant rely on getting to a meeting. Just an old romantic youve watched too many of the Agatha Christies film with murder on the Orient Express , and there the Orient Express, and there they go. And its an elegant train and a dining car. Or from russia with love, with those wonderful trains , with fantastic wonderful trains, with fantastic food being served. It wasnt like that in the 1970s or 80s. Well, murder sounds like a luxury compared to the hell i have to go through week after week, and we always look back at, you know, with through rose tinted spectacles , with tinted spectacles, with nostalgia. But its, you know, the price. I mean, letsjust the price. I mean, lets just take the route that i know. Taunts into london, £130 almost minimum. You know , thats if you minimum. You know, thats if you sort of dont go at the commuting time. I travel around the country as a restaurant critic, and i frequently go from the likes of taunton up to manchester or birmingham, newcastle , edinburgh working and newcastle, edinburgh working and i love working on trains and i write, so its conducive. I dont have anyone screaming at me. Kids running around, you know, i quite like the idea of your children dont scream. Theyre very well behaved. Theyre very well behaved. Of course, other children, other peoples children, yes. And visitors. And visitors. But the wi fi is terrible. Theres 3g, which, thank god, has been switched off because its a conc. 3g is no g. And so youre looking for some snippet of information and you cant get it. So you cant make any phone calls, it makes Research Impossible on trains. The stop impossible on trains. The stop start. So even if there was some modern romance about travelling, its so impractical and one other thing is the pullman dining car. Now gwr was running this on, for example, a thursday at about 7 04. Theyve moved it back now, or did the other week to 6 03. Im not a new yorker. Its far too early to eat. Indeed. Yes, a gentleman doesnt eat quite that early. But you were making the broader point about lockdown having sort of permeated into peoples way of permeated into peoples way of life, and that theyre keener to stay at home and that that is affecting the economy, that people dont want to go out so much. Yeah, its very important that we support hospitality. Vie its an absolute bedrock, bedrock of our culture and lots of great hospitality venues are doing what they can in spite of their shrinking margins to attract people and to go out. But when you think that at home, you know, if youre in a city you know, if youre in a city you can get deliveroo or uber eats or one of those delivery services, food cooked in dark kitchens, as theyre called, so you dont get the Actual Experience of the restaurant, you dont get the service charge, youve got wall to wall netflix , apple tv, which is far netflix, apple tv, which is far cheaper than going to the cinema , you know, there are so many things conspiring to keep the lethargic person who who might necessarily, you know , you know, necessarily, you know, you know, who might have a who might be disposed to sitting on the, on the sofa to stay at home. But you can stay at home and you can order your deliveroo and watch gb news. Is this idyllic life . You can. And of course we want to encourage people to do that. We want to encourage people to do that, but then also, i mean, its a bit late after 9 00 after your show to go out to eat, but then at least go out to eat, but then at least go out for lunch, go out at the weekend. Its really important to leave your leave your front doon to leave your leave your front door, leave your flat and go out and commute. Now im very happy to see in london. I mean, you go through borough market, its completely busy, you know, you know, the cities are bustling, but hospitality is suffering. I have to say, i think its always sounds tedious, sort of blame government, but government does have a handle on, on the economics of life. And we need things like vat holidays and business rate cuts. And we you know, there are a lot of things conspire hits against hospitality are pretty big, arent they. Because you you didnt help with brexit, which has made imports impossible. No, no. Its made the red tape to try and get food in and out of the country. Imports have nothing to do with brexit. This is a weird decision of the government that ive strongly opposed. Completely unnecessary. If youve been paying attention to the program last week, youd be aware of friends who run the Temperley Somerset cider brandy company. There is no reason for any import into this country to be more difficult after brexit. The government has recently imposed some stupid regulations, but that is bureaucracy for its own sake. Its not required by brexit. Youre going to be as bad as this film, man. This playwright whos written a very bad play and has said, nobodys going to see it because of brexit. Everything gets blamed on brexit. I might cover that tomorrow in in more detail, but i was talking vat rates. You mentioned the minimum wage doesnt help that just made it more expensive to employ people. Now i have to say post brexit, whats happened to a lot of the sort of italians who would come over here and work . For example, you now have to pay them a minimum of if youre a skilled worker of £38,700, when you add in the tronc, which is the compulsory tipping thats into the 40,000. So thats making employing people very, very difficult. Employing people is of course from because we want to employ domestic people. Yes. And the minimum wage is helping people domestically get a better standard of living. We should surely be in favour of that. But well, i am generally in favour of it. If we had a British Culture where people really want to work as chefs and work as waiters, but were not there yet, i never believed that people wont work in this country. They will work as long as theyre paid reasonably. Thats why you want to have that higher level for overseas labels. I think i think with training, yes, we all work. Ive got to stop. Im sorry. Ive got the last word with william. Unprecedented. We work hard if were paid properly. And finally, a despicable crime against the english language has been committed in yorkshire. Been committed in yorkshire. Nonh been committed in yorkshire. North Yorkshire Council has decided to eliminate , perhaps decided to eliminate, perhaps even exterminate, the use of apostrophes in street signs to avoid issues with its clearly rather stupid computer systems. Saint marys walk in harrogate has apparently fallen victim to this change, although one postman told the telegraph newspaper that an anonymous punctuation enthusiast has already corrected the sign and reinstalled the apostrophe to its proper place , the apostrophe its proper place, the Apostrophe Protection Society really ought to be the royal Apostrophe Protection Society has also leapt the punctuation marks defence, emphasising the importance of using the humble apostrophe correctly. But if this proves anything, its what i say almost every evening that gods own true county is somerset, where such outrageous crimes against punctuation would not occur. Unfortunately, they have in yorkshire. Anyway, thats all from me. Up next is Patrick Christys , patrick, will Patrick Christys, patrick, will you be benefiting from hospitality this evening . Well, no. Well, no. Apart from the wonderful hospitality that i will be extending towards my viewers and listeners with hopefully a fantastic show and £14 billion we are now spending on Illegal Migrants every single year. How much before we say enough is enough . Also, the chuckle brothers at the home office have lost thousands of them. Anyway so that takes them off the backlog. Listen, ive got proof that labour mps dont know what any of their own policies are. Oh well, its all going to be very exciting. I look forward to heanng very exciting. I look forward to hearing that later. Itll be coming up after the weather. I will be back tomorrow at 8 00. Im jacob rees mogg. This has been staged for the nation. William and i are going to help the Hospitality Industry in a moment. And the weather in somerset, you know it. Its going to be absolutely sumptuously good tomorrow. So a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Good evening. Heres your latest gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. Whilst there will be a little bit of rain around and also some patches of mist and fog tonight, for many theres going to be plenty of fine weather through the next few days because of a large area of High Pressure thats dominating the story across the uk. This means its going to stay largely settled through the end of today and overnight does mean we will see a few patches of mist and fog, particularly towards the west, but also some cloud drifting in from the north sea further east as well. A dry night for most of us and temperatures not dropping a huge amount, many areas staying in high single figures or low double digits. So not a particularly chilly start to the day on wednesday. In fact, a fairly mild one and quite a bright one for some of us, though it wont be wall to wall blue skies. Not at all. There will be quite a bit of cloud at times, albeit it does look like a brighter, sunnier day than today. The greatest chance of seeing any rain will be towards the far north west. Here across parts of northwest scotland, perhaps northwest northern ireland. Some outbreaks of rain are quite possible. Temperatures may be similar or a touch higher than today, but with a bit more sunshine around, it should feel a little bit warmer. The High Pressure sticks with us as we go through the end of the week, and so were going to see more fine weather for much of the uk, although towards the far north northwest here there may be a little bit more rain at times. And elsewhere the odd shower cant be ruled out, but we should also see a good deal of sunshine, particularly as we head towards the weekend. Largely sunny skies on saturday, and by then temperatures likely to rise to the low to mid 20s. Looks like things are heating up. Boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. Its 9 pm. Im Patrick Christys tonight at. Terrifying scenes in oldham. We are coming for you in the general election. Anyway, hes general election. Anyway, hes got a mid term. Got a mid term. Why do labour want to win this lot back . But hang on, debility is not an active policy, is it . Well, it has to be. Now labour dont even know what their own policies are. And harry wont meet the king. But who rejected who also who make me dizzy from your kisses. Will you take my hand . Will you take my hand . Its all eurovision. Act its all eurovision. Act doesnt love our union flag. Plus. Countless illegal plus. Countless Illegal Immigrants are on the run. And what happens next here . Hey, hey , come. All my panel tonight is , come. All my panel tonight is political commentator patrick oflynn. Tory deputy chairman jonathan gullace and author amy nicole turner. Oh, yes. And would you be seen dead in this ,