Transcripts For GBN Patrick 20240703

Said we will raise taxes, weve set out what we will raise and what well spend the money on. So what you did hear this morning is that were going to get rid of the tax break for private schools and use that money for the teachers we need in our state secondary schools. We did here is were going to get rid of the non dom status properly and use that money towards reducing or reducing waiting lists. The tax burden on people is as high as its ever been under this government, you know, this has been the tax rising government of all time. Thousands of households in devon have been told to boil their water before drinking it for another week after a parasite was found in a key reservoir. The Uk Health Security Agency says 22 people are confirmed to have become sick and as many as 70 other cases of diarrhoea and vomiting are under investigation. The tory mp for totnes and south devon criticised south west water for what he said was slow and poor communication. The company has apologised for the outbreak and has offered £100 of compensation to those affected , compensation to those affected, and britain has asked china to push for an end to russias war in ukraine. As Vladimir Putin visits beijing, the russian president was greeted by xi jinping with full military honours for their third meeting in just over a year. It comes less than a week after russia launched a new offensive in North Eastern ukraine. China has long been suspected of supporting russias economy and its invasion of ukraine. For the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. Com slash alerts. Now its back to. Patrick. Back to. Patrick. Welcome along to a bumper show today, former home secretary Suella Braverman confronted the cambridge probe. Confronted the cambridge probe. Palestine protesters. They, along with other student movements, stand accused of peddung movements, stand accused of peddling anti semitism on campus, intimidating jewish students, fostering extremism and behaving like fascists. They are seen as the radical student wing of what Suella Braverman famously called the hate marches that take place every weekend. Suella explained why she wanted to look these cambridge protesters in the eye. We are having a slightly rainy cambridge. Why have you decided cambridge. Why have you decided that you wanted to come today . Well, patrick, im very interested in this whole phenomenon that weve seen both in the us and here in the uk of protesters, pro Palestinian Protesters, pro Palestinian Protesters , the encampments and protesters, the encampments and the, militant tactics that certain protesters are taking to make their point. And weve seen in recent weeks encampments sprung up at oxford and cambridge and other universities around the United Kingdom , of particular relevance kingdom, of particular relevance to me is that i was over 20 years ago, a student here at the fantastic university of cambridge. Were just outside my old college, Queens College , old college, Queens College, and so its a bit of a trip down memory lane for me. You know, when i was 18, it was so exciting, daunting , and the exciting, daunting, and the biggest honour of my life to get into cambridge. My parents hadnt into cambridge. My parents hadnt had the privilege to go to university as an 18 year olds, and it was the biggest, the biggest privilege for our family. And i remember coming family. And i remember coming here, it was a bit of a wide eyed, naive young girl, and i had a wonderful experience here at cambridge. And, you know, its a great teaching environment. Its supposed to foster discussion, exploration of ideas, respect , freedom of of ideas, respect, freedom of thought. But of ideas, respect, freedom of thought. But it of ideas, respect, freedom of thought. But it feels now what thought. But it feels now what were seeing on campus here at cambridge is a certain kind of thuggery , intimidation and thuggery, intimidation and harassment whereby one group is allowed a megaphone , to blast allowed a megaphone, to blast out abusive messaging , and out abusive messaging, and another group just has to shut up and put up. Yeah and what are you actually hoping for from today, then . So at some point, were going to head down there and try to engage a bit with the people who have been camping out. Now what in an ideal world, what happens . Listen, im really genuinely interested in what these people think, ive been very vocal over the last six months about my views, both as home secretary and subsequently the acts of october 7 by hamas were brutal and murderous, and that israel has a legitimate right to defend itself and its military action in gaza is justified legally and actually , morally. I went out to actually, morally. I went out to israel last month to meet survivors of october the 7th, senior military and political figures in israel, and i have my husband is jewish. I should declare that i have an interest in in the issue personally, but i also am genuinely interested in what the other side of the debate says. And weve seen these marches, weve seen people feel very strongly about, rightly, the civilian deaths in gaza. Every civilian death, whether its arab or israeli, is a tragedy. We dont want civilians to die, weve seen a lot of people feel very strongly about this conflict, and i am genuinely interested in what people who are taking to these encampments think and feel where they get their information from and what their justification is. Yeah. Yeah. So its a bit of a fact finding mission, i suppose, really, isnt it . And hopefully we can have some kind of dialogue and some kind of discussion with them and answer some of those questions. I mean, theyre never going to have a better chance. Are they really to, you know, see somebody like yourself. Youve presented yourself. Youve presented yourself here. So hopefully they do take that opportunity. And some people do feel quite intimidated by these encampments. Clearly not. You listen, im im not im not shrinking violet. I think you could say im someone. You know, i see being elected to parliament as a privilege. People put their trust in me to go to parliament, and they expect a level of courage and bravery on their behalf. And i want to inquire. I want to find out. I want to question , i want out. I want to question, i want to engage in a reasonable and rational and respectful way with people who might disagree with me. Thats the essence of a free and Democratic Society. And if we cant do that in britain, then were in a really worrying state. Yeah, do you worry, then, that there has been a certain decline, maybe since the time that you were here . When we see that there have been to a few of these kind of things and theres a bit of shouting, theres not always the biggest desire to engage. Are you worried that weve maybe lost that a bit as a society . Do you think . I do fear that . I think we get a polarisation of views, we get a polarisation of views, we get an entrenchment of views and then we actually get extremism as well. You know, weve got a really big problem in this country, as ive coined it, mass extremism on our streets. Weve seen through these marches not everybody on these marches, but a large number of people engage in anti semitism, racism, intimidation , thuggery, intimidation, thuggery, harassment, and members of the Jewish Community feel terrified. In the uk in the 21st century. And that makes me ashamed to be british. We shouldnt be living in a country where certain groups feel scared to go out into the streets and go about their daily business, and just before we head over there now there is some school of thought that say that people like the police or Certain University authorities should have done a bit more to move some of these people along. Actually, the visible presence allows something to grow, allows something to fester, and you know, it can make things worse. Where would you stand on that . Listen, i agree and support the right to peaceful protest. I support people in exercising their right to do that peacefully. What i object to is when that , expression crosses when that, expression crosses a line into to racism, intimidation and criminal behaviour. Intimidation and criminal behaviour. And i think when youve got, jewish students feeling intimidated, not feeling able to express their views or express their faith , then weve express their faith, then weve got a real problem and weve got a climate of fear. And the University Authorities need to step in and discipline and stop, Unacceptable Behaviour. Yeah. And just lastly, actually, before we move along, they make lists of demands like they make lists of demands like the universities need to divest from anything thats kind of israel related, really , theres israel related, really, theres talk of them doing things like interrupting, graduate ceremonies and things like that as well. I mean, what do you think the universities should just stand firm and not give into the demands like this . Really absolutely. We cant have a minority. Minority group dictate the views of the majority. And, a big institution in the United Kingdom, which is partially taxpayer funded as well. So, you know, this is, universities shouldnt take political positions. Theyre not here to indoctrinate. Theyre not here to be vehicles of political campaigns and the divestment, demands and the boycotting demands and the boycotting demands are anti semitism, pure and simple. And in no circumstance should any public institution, any state institution, any state institution , engage in that kind institution, engage in that kind of activity. Do you do you think that there is a lot of anti semitism out camps like this then particularly . Well, this is what i want to go and see. You know, thats my observation that there are there are elements of antisemitic behaviour, for example, chanting from the river to the sea is, to my mind , an anti semitic chant. My mind, an anti semitic chant. Its calling for the eradication of israel. Its calling, therefore, for the eradication of jewish people. Thats a call of jewish people. Thats a call for genocide. That is anti semitic and, you know, a lot of people chant that unwittingly. They dont really know which river theyre talking about, which sea theyre talking about, which sea theyre talking about, or what it actually means. Some people chant it knowingly. Im really interested to see what thats all about, whats happening here . Well, should we should we find out . Lets go. All right. Find out . Lets go. All right. Okay. All right. What are we . What are we . Were middle of may. I dont know if its exams, which is also even more like staggering. Shouldnt they be, like, hold up in the library studying for their exams . Well, i mean, yeah, exactly. They should they should be ready, shouldnt them . But, i think theres some talk of graduation ceremonies coming up as well soon, which they think they are trying to disrupt. But since i spoke to ola braverman there just before we went into there just before we went into the encampment, the university unfortunately, has given him. They have given in to some of their demands , or they have their demands, or they have certainly given in to some of those people in tents, and theyve decided to move their Graduation Ceremony from where it should be, where it has been for centuries. Ive decided to move it to a different location. What youre going to see over the course of this show is the kind of people who are at these protests, the kind of people who organise these protests, and the kind of people really, who actually universities and other institutions are giving in to. But i want to get the reaction now from the editor of the communist of the rcp and former student at the university of cambridge, adam booth. Adam, thank you very, very much. What is the link between communism and some of the people who are at these encampments and hamas . At these encampments and hamas . I dont think theres any link between communism and hamas and the protesters , the and the protesters, the protesters that youve got in the student protests across the uk at the moment are there as was as as was even said in your clip with suella were are there to protest against divestment, i. E. Against university funds, you know, tuition fees, the students tuition fees, the rents, taxpayers money going to fund genocide in gaza via Arms Companies like by via banks that are investing in Israeli Companies that thats what the students are protesting about. Can i put something to you, adam . Because because were going to were going to see a lot later. And, you know, ive been to quite a few of these now, and i do put it to you that actually a lot of people there arent students, arent they . And i think, you know, that i think that maybe you had hoped that people from the revolutionary communist party, etc. Will put a few tents up and would kick start other students, and youd get quite a big rebellion. But in reality it is just a lot of people sitting in tents, Wearing Masks in the rain, begging for vegan food. Isnt it . Well, i dont know what the dietary requirements are of camping in these things, so i cant comment on the veganism or otherwise. But as i said, theres these protests have been sparked by a movement thats going across the whole globe at the moment, sparked by something that happened in Columbia University in the us, where which faced brutal repression from the state authorities there and that has spread across to the uk. Because why . Because the uk. Because why . Because just as in the us, weve got a regime here, the tories, that are complicit in genocide and yeah, that has sparked actually a mass movement. Youve had hundreds of students involved in these protests at all these students, adam, are they students . Well , the students are well, the students are explicitly calling for workers to join in with these because students actually recognise that whilst they can be a spark for bigger movements, actually what is needed is precisely the university workers, the lecturers and the other staff to come in and support these protests as well to shut down the campuses as theyre the ones with the power to prevent these University Bosses from bringing big business onto campus and actually kicking imperialism off campus and putting students and staff in control of universities. Theyre so proud of their cause. Why are they covering their faces . Well, i think weve seen a lot of smearing and a lot of intimidation and a lot of repression of students and workers on pro palestine protests. Since october the 7th, many of my own comrades in the revolutionary communist party have had their faces splashed all over twitter by the met police. Theyve been harangued, threatened that theyre going to be pulled out of their beds at night by the met police just for attending peaceful protests in support of palestine. So i dont blame students for having a bit of fear that people like Suella Braverman, who used to be home secretary and the current home secretary, are going to use similarly brutal, repressive measures to try and intimidate students and other protesters in support of palestine. Okay. And presumably , okay. And presumably, presumably, you know, these people who feel so strongly about their cause, who have such passion and have the history on their side and what they are doing, their actions will echo throughout eternity. Okay. Those people, when presented with somebody like Suella Braverman, should engage with that person. Should they should they should they say, should they give them a piece of their mind . Should they have the mental fortitude to debate and outwit that person from behind the mask . Well, i dont think Suella Braverman is exactly a worthy champion that requires them to get out of their tents and debater, to be honest, shes someone whos out there, to be frank, to be troll. Shes a troll. Hes there to smear the protesters as anti semitic, which is completely hypocritical coming from someone who daily wakes up racism against muslims and other races and other ethnic minorities. So youve got a minorities. So youve got a racist government, a racist tory mp coming and accusing students of racism completely falsely. Why should they debate someone whos not willing to debate on honest terms . Thats really interesting , thats really interesting, adam. Look, thank you very, very much. Adam booth there, who is a former student at the university of cambridge and the editor of the communist. And alison, ill come to you first on this. What do you make of what he had to say . There well, as a Cambridge University graduate, id say one of the things youre taught is precise use of language. And he said there was genocide in gaza. Then most categorically is not, genocide in gaza. The International Court of justice recently said there was no provable instance of genocide in gaza. And its fatuous. Its gaza. And its fatuous. Its obviously there are terrible, tragic civilian deaths , but the tragic civilian deaths, but the Israeli Defence forces are doing their absolute best to minimise civilian casualties, and there is no comparison to be made with actual genocide, which was the holocaust of the jews during the second world war, which killed 6 million jewish men, women and children. I you know, i just think that they are, you know, having been to cambridge, you meet a lot of intelligent people, patrick, and you realise lots of intelligent people are very, very stupid. And the thing that strikes me about this event, first of all, as you said, im really shocked that the senate house, which is next to that encampment, thats where we all go to graduate and thats where lots of the exams are held. So jewish students marched, walking back and forth there. Theyre going to feel deeply uncomfortable. The idea that the university of authorities have buckled and cancelled the degree ceremony there is absolutely astonishing. But there is a lot of weakness and cowardice in the university body. Well were going to be were going to be seeing exactly what happened a little bit later on when Suella Braverman and i spent quite a long time with some of those protesters. Sean, the other accusation there was that Suella Braverman is a racist, he said. And also those people , there was no need those people, there was no need for them to get out of their tents and talk to someone like her. I mean, theres three things to say. Firstly, i am really worried about this generation and how they approach the art of politics. One of the things you very quickly learn in politics is you have to be able to speak to the other side, and if you believe in your belief, you have that debate to convert other peoples beliefs. If you dont engage, thats the beginning of fascism. Fascism brooks no dissent. It has no conversation. It it puts its law out there. And thats the end of that. And |, and thats the end of that. And i, i worry that students are holding on to that with safe spaces and an inability to engage. Spaces and an inability to engage. If when i was a student, engage. If when i was a student, if someone had presented me with x, home secretary, i would have unloaded on that home secretary because its an arena to get your point across. But the real worry is, i wonder if universities are actually acting for their students. If i was paying for their students. If i was paying fees and i had my graduation moved, id want some of that money back. If i was paying of that money back. If i was paying fees and i was jewish and i was being intimidated in that way, id want some of my money back. And i think universities are opening themselves up to some kind of legal case because theyre not providing the service they are. And also the complicity of staff, which is something that we will see throughout the course of the piece a little bit later on, as well, matthew, ill throw it over to you. Like i said, i think that this is actually a desire to try to agitate and that they thought theyd put a load of tents up and that a load of hundreds, thousands of students would come pounng thousands of students would come pouring out of this university and they would kick start something. And that hasnt happened. And you now have a load of people who cant move , load of people who cant move, who are just sitting in the rain. Yeah. I mean, rain. Yeah. I mean, im rain. Yeah. I mean, im fascinated yeah. I mean, im fascinated to see what happens when youre in suella, when and tried to speak to them. I mean, you know what i thought was extraordinary . That interviews. Im a democratic socialist. Im certainly not a revolutionary socialist. And the difference of the word of that is the word democratic, because adam was saying there that Suella Braverman has no legitimacy. I disagree wholeheartedly with suella on a whole range of matters, but she is an elected representative. Shes a member representative. Shes a member of parliament. Those people, you know, the revolutionary communist party, whos whos probably got a membership of about 250, is a self appointed. Yep, spokespeople. And that is yep, spokespeople. And that is the difference. It should be for people who are elected to debate with one another to have different views. And the university of cambridge stuff. Yes, yes to peaceful protest, no to giving in, in case something happens. Itsjust to giving in, in case something happens. Its just ludicrous. Yeah and so look, hey, what did happen when Suella Braverman met some of these protesters head on . What was what would be your your your main question to some of the individuals . Im really keen to hear what your message is to israel. Your message is to israel. Were gonna were going to show you the full walkabout and the protester reactions and off the protester reactions and off the back suella will join us all live in the studio. Shes going to dissect it all. Shes also actually going to debate someone who is one of the big organisers of not just that protest, but student protests around the country, but up next, a bombshell telegraph report reveals that the nhs bosses are destroying the careers of whistleblowers who stand up for Patient Safety, spending millions of pounds on the legal action. In the process. I will speak to one of those brave whistleblowers and ex consultant surgeon and thats next. Stay tuned. Coming up, the former home secretary, Suella Braverman looks these pro palestine Union Protesters in the eye. And we expose actually , a heck of a lot expose actually, a heck of a lot about them. So make sure that you stay tuned for that. But you stay tuned for that. But first, its been revealed that nhs bosses are destroying the careers of whistleblowers who stand up for Patient Safety by whacking them with multi Million Pound legal cases. So in damning revelations of nhs scandal on top of scandal, a Daily Telegraph investigation uncovered that more than 50 talented doctors and nurses who claim that they have lost their jobs, with some driven to the bnnk jobs, with some driven to the brink of suicide. By the way , as brink of suicide. By the way, as bosses sought to bury their concerns about upwards of 170 patient deaths. One consultant patient deaths. One consultant described it as the biggest scandal within our country, and so that the true number of avoidable deaths was astronomical. Instead of trying astronomical. Instead of trying to fix the problems, whistleblowers claim that nhs chiefs have spent millions of pounds of your money, taxpayers money, hiring law firms and private eyes to investigate them. The whistleblowers in one case, the nhs spent more than £4 million on legal action against one single whistleblower, which included 3. 2 million in compensation. And campaigners say this is happening up and down the country. Im joined now down the country. Im joined now by ex consultant urologist, surgeon doctor peter duffy, himself an nhs whistleblower who is the chairman of a Group Representing whistleblowers. As well right across the uk. Look, thank you very much. Great to have you on the show. Something that i think people had long suspected was happening. But now we can confirm is indeed happening. How bad is this problem . Can you give me some examples please . And what kind of thing are they trying to cover up, it is a really big problem, i mean, i should make it clear im the chair of the healthcare section of whistleblowers uk, because, of course, whistleblowing isnt just restricted to the health service, but i think its one of the biggest areas where whistleblowing is most relevant. And its a huge problem , i think and its a huge problem, i think one of the figures that came out of the telegraph article this morning was that one law firm, just that one law firm, and i think 1600 nhs whistleblowing staff on its books had suffered some sort of detriment or dismissal for their whistleblowing. So this is not an isolated issue. There are literally thousands of us out there who have suffered just for trying to do the right thing, okay . And can you just play out for me how it works . So theres some kind of scandal that takes place, a patient maybe died when they shouldnt have died, and a member of the nhs staff wants to come forward and say, look, this , this was wrong. What happened here . Things need to be held to account. And then what . The nhs top brass pile in and tried to coverit top brass pile in and tried to cover it up, you will usually get shut down in some way or other. So in my own particular case, i mean, i did speak out for a number of years, but i only did so internally. And i think its when you go external that the real retribution begins. And i did that in the summer of 2015. So wed had an avoidable death. And then on top avoidable death. And then on top of that, we had an act of disobedience to the local coroner. And at that point, you have to make that binary choice between either going with the cover up or going to an external authority. So i went to the care authority. So i went to the Care Quality Commission and the Care Quality Commission and the Care Quality Commission and the Care Quality Commission tackled the trust about it. In october, and the detriment started immediately. So that month my pay immediately. So that month my pay was cut and then we havent got time to go into the whole sort of sequence of events that that tends to happen. But you are essentially forced out of your job. Are essentially forced out of yourjob. So do motion disciplinary action. And in the summer of 2016, i was hit with a threat to go back through my previous earnings, recouping monies. And of course , sorry, monies. And of course, sorry, i just dont understand that. I just i just dont understand that. Ijust i really just dont understand that. I just i really dont understand how thats legal. Its not. Well, it isnt it isnt legal. But i think the problem is that your only real redress is that your only real redress is through the employment tribunal system. Theres a two year wait for that. And in the meantime, the trusts can do what they want. So, like many other whistleblowers whove been put in this situation, i wasnt going to stick around to have a retrospect of pay cut. So you resign, you leave, and then the problem doesnt get dealt with. And this is the thing. So in going and going around the houses and doing absolutely everything , including just everything, including just splashing millions of pounds of taxpayers cash everywhere by the way, tries to cover it up. It means they dont deal with the problem. So presumably more people die. Yes, thats exactly right. And thats one of the biggest flaws of Employment Law at the moment. And the way that these sort of cases are interpreted, it turns into this terrible dogfight, right, between the whistleblower and the solicitors who are brought in by the nhs, often at huge expense, and its a real david versus goliath thing. And in the meantime, of course, all the wrongdoing is simply forgotten about. And the bloodbath that ensues with all the legal goings on, and look, just finally with you, a lot of people out there watching this or listening to this right now will have serious reservations about whether or not they had a relative , a loved one in the nhs relative, a loved one in the nhs who did die or come to some serious harm as a result of medical negligence or a medical mistake. They might have relatives in there now, and theyre suspicious of whats going on. How worried should they be . I think the vast majority of nhs staff do a really good job after under really very difficult circumstances, so im certainly not here to criticise in a sort of blanket fashion, the whole of the nhs. But there is no doubt the nhs can do better, much better, the figure of 11,000 avoidable deaths is one of the more conservative ones that ive seen, now that you have to put that into the context of the millions of people that are dealt with by the nhs. But even so, thats 11,000 too many, and were not going to make inroads into that until we do something about the background treatment of whistleblowers in the nhs. Whistleblowers in the nhs. Well, im very, very sorry that you had to be a whistleblower to begin with. Im very sorry that the treatment then of you was so appalling afterwards. And i would like to thank you for being brave and for sticking your head above the parapet and hopefully trying to get some, some change sorted, because ive got no doubt whatsoever that you main motivation for doing that is to make sure that more people stay alive. So thank you very, very much. Isaac kenyon neurologist surgeon doctor peter duffy, who is an nhs whistleblower. Right. Look, Aaron Cummings of the University Hospital of Morecambe Bay Nhs Foundation trust, this is the chief executive. He said this there were a number of ways for staff to raise concerns, including via the freedom to speak up guardian scheme. He added there is still a lot more work we need to do, but we are all committed to fostering an environment where raising concerns is prioritised and respected as an essential part of our core business model. Theres also a nhs spokesperson here who said it is completely unacceptable for any member of staff to feel silenced or unable to speak up about issues affecting them or patients. Not only should everyone working in the nhs feel they can raise concerns, but they must know that they will be acted on and that they will be acted on and that they will be acted on and that they will be treated fairly. That is vital for ensuring that the nhs learns from mistakes and provides the best possible care for patients. Every nhs trust should be adopting the updated National Freedom to speak up policy and nhs england has recently asked all local areas to urgently ensure staff have easy access to information on how they can raise concerns , including raise concerns, including through having a dedicated freedom to speak up guardian in place. I know that that story will mean a heck of a lot to a lot of our viewers and listeners who regularly get in touch with me and discuss with me poor care, poor treatment, and frankly, malpractice and negligence that they feel in the nhs. Still to come, former home secretary Suella Bravermans shock visit to the old gaza protest camps at Cambridge University. Im not here to get into a fight. Im not here to debate necessarily. Im coming with a sincere intention to engage. Sincere intention to engage. How do you think it went . Who do you think came out on top when Suella Braverman looked those student activists in the eye . Soon we will reveal all with suella as well. Live in the studio. But next, Hollywood Star kevin spacey fights back against his cancellation after being cleared of multiple Sexual Assault allegations in a london court. On the one hand, youre a cold, literally, quote, a cold eyed monster, but nevertheless a cold eyed monster. Theyre prepared to have a date with again, is that correct . The woman behind that scoop is telegraph columnist allison pearson, and she joins me live in the studio to give her view. Welcome back to Patrick Christys. Tonight now Ann Widdecombe is on the way. And Suella Bravermans visit to the gaza protest camps at Cambridge University. Followed by her in the studio and a walloping debate, actually, between her and some of the people who are responsible for organising these student protests. But first, hes the hollywood megastar who was put through the ringer whilst facing multiple Sexual Assault allegations stretching back decades. Kevin spacey , who back decades. Kevin spacey, who won oscars for the usual suspects and american beauty , suspects and american beauty, was fired from hit Netflix Series house of cards in 2017 when an actor claimed that spacey molested him when he was just 14, in a new york apartment. But after being cleared of nine Sexual Assault charges in a london court last july , spacey is now out to save july, spacey is now out to save his career in channel fours latest investigation against his name has convinced him to fight back. Well, tonights panellist allison pearson, conducted a times quite tearful interview, actually with him for the Daily Telegraph on the one hand, youre a cold, literally. Quote a cold eyed monster, but nevertheless a cold eyed monster theyre prepared to have a date with again, is that correct . Again, is that correct . Well, theres one case where someone accused me of something in 1998 and said they never spoke to me again, and i was a terrible person. And i have emails of this person. In 2011 saying how great it was to have seen me when i was in la last december of , of 2011 and december of, of 2011 and wondering whether i might put him up for a role in captain phillips, a film that i was producing. Allison, youve called kevin spacey metoos greatest casualty. Do you want to expand on that a bit . On that a bit . Yeah, well, it was in 2017. The big investigation into Harvey Weinstein had gone on. Weinstein had been arrested. Obviously had done many terrible things. This young guy , inspired things. This young guy, inspired by the metoo movement, came forward accused spacey of having molested him when he was 14. Turned out to be whats a nice word for pack of lies, patrick . But you know, lets just say that the jury in that case, found a not guilty verdict after 45 minutes, all right. So it was absolute nonsense from beginning to end. But but once that guy had come forward , because there had come forward, because there was the metoo frenzy, all the people running scared. So they dropped kevin, netflix dropped him and not only did they drop him and not only did they drop him from house of cards, they said he will never work for us again. And kevin spacey said to me, if a few people had just said, lets take a breath, lets see what this allegation is about. Lets find out if theres any truth in it. But no, they just assumed he was guilty from the get go. And then of course, everyone else saw, well, if netflix is dropping him, that means they must have got the dirt on him. So he said, my life was finished in four days. All right. So thats what happened to him. And since then , hes to him. And since then, hes spent millions trying to rescue his reputation in various court cases, including one last year in london for charges. Four men in london for charges. Four men came forward with Sexual Assault charges again absolutely thrown out. But what weve got, patrick, is weve got a situation where, the criminal Justice System can find somebody not guilty. But then the woke lot will say, yeah, but legally hes off the hook. But morally, hes off the hook. But morally, hes hurt peoples feelings, so hes hurt peoples feelings, so he cant be allowed to get away with it. And i guess what i would say to you, this is one of the greatest actors of our generation, one of the greatest actors of all time, probably hasnt worked for seven years. Hes in a pretty terrible , hes in a pretty terrible, vulnerable state, and yet they still wont let him. You know, they still wont let him back. And its the power of the first allegation, isnt it, really . Because he can be found not guilty of everything, as indeed he has , and still he indeed he has, and still he faces absolute cancellation, really. And its almost like people wont be satisfied until he throws himself off a building. Yeah. Whats interesting with because obviously i was interviewing him and he obviously he speaks brilliantly. Obviously he speaks brilliantly. And you half the time you think this mans this mans giving me a good interview and you think, oh, its kevin spacey. I have to Say Something very funny that happened on Tuesday Morning because i woke up and checked my email, and the first one was from sharon stone, and the next one was from liam neeson. I thought, this doesnt happen every day in my life. Yeah, so whats happening now is proper a listers are coming forward. They say enough is enough. The quys they say enough is enough. The guys done his time. Hes absolutely brilliant. We think hes an ornament to our industry , you know, stephen fry wrote very brilliantly and said, obviously kevin spacey had behaved very inappropriately and has apologised. But you know, hes done his time. How much how its crucifixion on. Its basically crucifixion. Its absolutely terrible. So what absolutely terrible. So what were seeing now is were seeing these major league actors. And these major league actors. And once that happens, because its a cowardly industry. So whats a cowardly industry. So whats been happening is kevin has been getting some really good offers and the writers will work with him. Its like its been like a leper. Patrick. He might as well have been ringing a bell saying, unclean. But now the writers will work with him, the producers will work with him. The actors arent too bad about working with him. And then one person in distribution can say , person in distribution can say, oh, kevin spacey doesnt accord with the values of our , our with the values of our, our viewers. And that is every single time thats happening. But im, i think hes a bit more hopeful now because you do wonder and as you know , you do wonder and as you know, you do you do wonder. Its just brutal. And i felt worried i think i actually thought, do these people want kevin spacey to throw himself off the top of a high building . Because thats kind of the implication. Often kind of the implication. Often its like you cant work, but i would have to say, and im sure everyone feels this is cancel culture is contagious. Because spacey became absolute pariah. And people i heard of, i cant name the names, very famous people, actors who wanted to issue statements in his support and their management said, no, you cant. Its too risky. So everybody then thinks ill be cancelled if i support the cancelled if i support the cancel person. So its a kind of contagion, really. But now what contagion, really. But now what is promising, i think, is these i mean, sharon stone , liam i mean, sharon stone, liam neeson, stephen fry, trevor nunn, these, you know, these are big figures and there are more coming. Well, and youre helping with that. And, you know, this is going to have a real world consequence. I think, and a push back both against cancel culture, which can can i also just say when you end up with situations as it seems to be the case here where someones found not guilty of everything, it actually dilutes the very real and serious cases when people have had things go wrong. And we dont want that. Allison, thank dont want that. Allison, thank you very, very much. And people can watch the full version of that on the telegraph, the telegraph website. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And do as well. Yeah. And do as well. Its magnificent. So allison will be back in the studio again in a few minutes, but still to come, while Suella Braverman, brave or ill, advised to enter into the lions den and confront the pro palestine mob. What was what would be your your your main question to some of the individuals . Im really keen to hear what your message is to israel. Your message is to israel. All right. Well, i will be showing you what happened at that gaza protest camp in cambridge, where we presented them with the people, the person that they arguably hate the most for their opportunity for their opportunity to look her in the eye and tell her and debate with her and have a constructive conversation with her. But up next, weve got Ann Widdecombe and Ann Widdecombe is going to be talking about Keir Starmers big six plans. He denies ripping off all of new labours ideas. But its not copycat because were now, what, 27 years on from 1997, the challenges we face now are not the same as those faced by tony blair. Is Ann Widdecombe buying it . Stay tuned. Welcome back to Patrick Christys tonight. Still to come . Yes. My visit to that pro palestine student protest with Suella Braverman earlier today. But braverman earlier today. But first, keir starmer set out his six pledges for britain. So this is what the labour leader has planned. If he enters downing street. Street. Step one economic stability. Step one economic stability. Now this is the very foundation of economic growth. The second of economic growth. The second step is cutting nhs waiting times. It is impossible to overstate the seriousness of this problem. Step three a new this problem. Step three a new Border Security command because the government has lost control of our borders. Step four Great British energy now the problem here is obvious. Step five here is obvious. Step five cracking down on antisocial behaviour. And finally, step six 6500 extra teachers paid for by removing tax breaks for private schools is right. He set his stall out and widdecombe joins me now. And do you believe him . You believe him . Well, it reminds me of the edestone , if you can cast your edestone, if you can cast your mind back, to ed miliband when he actually carved in stone , he actually carved in stone, his, half a dozen promises, and this is very much a similar exercise. So when people say, is he trying to wait . Blair, hes just continuing. He really in the miliband tradition. But if you look at his record, hes stood everything. Hes ever promised on its head, he said he was going to remove charitable status from schools, reversed the two child limit in benefit, reversed the 28 billion green investment, reversed , abolition investment, reversed, abolition of tuition fees. Reversed. You cant actually believe anything he says. And the thing about these six pledges, is that they are all vague, with the possible exception of the last one, which actually has a figure 6500 new teachers. Now my question to him is, has he copied blair because what blair did was announce thousands of new doctors and then admitted that they actually included all those then in training in medical schools. So is he saying 6500 completely new teachers . And if so, how are they going to be taught . Yeah, well, this is it, isnt it . Recruiting 6500 teachers paid for through ending tax breaks for private schools. It is quite vague. And also i dont think the thing that they can account for in all of this is what exactly do they do with all of the children who are now going to have to leave some of those private schools as well, that theyre just going to dump into the state system, launching a Border Security command to stop the gangs arranging small boat crossings. And youre laughing. Why well, of course i am. Theyre already International Cooperation in trying to get on top of the gangs , but it isnt top of the gangs, but it isnt that easy. Hes not going to be able to do it. Just like that, and when he talks about, you know, launching a new Border Security command, thats not what britain wants. What britain wants is for the boats to stop coming. Thats what they want. Whats he going to do about that . 7 yeah, 7 yeah, and 7 yeah, and Great British energy. Now thats something that i think, for want of a better phrase, should possibly send chills down. Everybodys spine, because i think that is just ed milibands expensive vanhy just ed milibands expensive vanity project, isnt it . Yes. Im pretty certain that it is, and, you know, when he talks about how important it is that so much electricity now comes from solar and comes from wind, we have to remember that having developed those at the expense of fossil fuels and at the expense of nuclear, were now reversing a lot of that, and were not reversing it for fun. Were reversing it because its necessary. I do, i do put it to you, anne, though, that weve had keir starmer there. Hes given us some ideas. And actually rishi sunak hasnt stuck to any of his ideas either, has he. So, you know, why not give this kind of go well, politicians can make vague comments like, you know, stimulate the economy. Stimulate the economy. What does that mean . What does that mean , okay. Yeah. I does that mean, okay. Yeah. I mean, all im saying is that its all very well and good saying that hes, you know, hes not going to stick to anything and that theyre a bit laughable and that theyre a bit laughable and theyre a bit vague, but, you know, you have got to look at what hes up against. And people are a bit sick of that, arent they . Oh, theyre totally, absolutely fed up with the government, ive no doubt about that. But if he thinks that this is an answer to what people are fed up about, then i think he needs to think again. Hes trying to copy blair, though, and hes trying to copy blair. Look, our friend nigel farage did a cracking piece on his show about this earlier on, literally mimicking him to the point of having the little card in the sleeves rolled up, etc. How does he compare to blair for you . Well, im afraid he doesnt. I mean, blair did an awful lot of damage to this country through things like devolution, but at least he had charisma, he convinced people to vote for him, and, starmer has no charisma. I mean, he has no more charisma. I mean, he has no more charisma than a wet fish. None. Yeah, it will be. It will be fascinating to see whether or not he actually achieves any of these six things, or whether or not he sticks to them. I think the other concern for a lot of people is, all right, if hes saying these six things now, that all sound quite vague and all sound relatively palatable, isuppose all sound relatively palatable, i suppose in some ways. Whats the really radical stuff he might actually have up his sleeve if he does come to power, but and were going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much. That is the wonderful Ann Widdecombe there, former tory minister. Look up next, the moment that no doubt youve all been waiting for Suella Braverman marches straight into the camp of people who are, well, mostly despise her. You dont get into politics and you dont go into public life if you cant handle the heat, you dont take necessary, albeit uncomfortable, positions. If youre not ready for the pushback , well, after the break, pushback, well, after the break, you will see her quite astonishing interactions with the pro Palestine Protesters at Cambridge University. And then suella herself joins me live in the studio for the full reaction and an unmissable debate. Ill see you in a tick. That warm feeling inside from boxt boiler. That warm feeling inside from boxt boiler. As sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Weather on. Gb news. Good evening. Its time for your latest gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. There will be a few showers around tomorrow, but also some decent warm sunshine before that. A largely dry night ahead once the heavy rain that is affecting central parts at the moment clears away towards the moment clears away towards the west. The low pressure the west. The low pressure driving the rain is making its way westwards across the uk and as it clears away it will take the worst of the heavy rain with it. So for many it is going to turn largely dry overnight, although across some parts of nonh although across some parts of north wales, Northern England, perhaps into southern scotland, there will be some thicker cloud here and that cloud could bring some outbreaks of rain elsewhere. There will be some clear skies but temperatures not dropping a huge amount. Most places holding up in double digits. We do need to watch out for some mist and fog first thing, particularly in the south east. I am expecting a few patches to develop overnight, but they should largely clear quite quickly as we go through the morning. Tomorrow. Some brighter skies across other parts of southern england and wales. Thicker cloud though for Northern England and wales, and this bringing some outbreaks of rain even into parts of southern scotland. Sunnier skies, though , scotland. Sunnier skies, though, for Northern Ireland and the rest of scotland, albeit towards the far northwest towards the outer hebrides. Here some thicker cloud could also be bringing some outbreaks of rain first thing tomorrow morning. Otherwise, as we go through the day, the thicker cloud across some Northern Areas should break up a little bit. So some brightness breaking through here and elsewhere. There will be some decent sunny spells, but also a few showers to watch out for. They should be generally fairly hit and miss in nature, so many of us will avoid them. Do watch out for some heavier ones across parts of scotland, temperatures likely to be a little bit higher than today for many of us. Low 20s quite widely, so feeling pretty warm in any sunshine into the weekend and on saturday. Watch out for some hefty, showery rain spreading its way across southern parts. Elsewhere, there could be a few showers to watch out for, but they dont look like theyll be as frequent or as intense. Perhaps fewer showers on sunday, but still the chance of some, especially towards the south. Then monday is looking mostly fine. See you later. Later. Looks like things are heating up boxt boilers as sponsors of weather on gb news. Its 10 pm. Im Patrick Christys tonight. Christys tonight. But you dont get into politics, and you dont go into pubuc politics, and you dont go into public life. If you cant handle the heat, you dont take necessary , albeit uncomfortable, necessary, albeit uncomfortable, positions. If youre not ready for the pushback. Suella braverman faces off with pro Palestine Protesters. With pro Palestine Protesters. Your message to the Palestinian People find out your views and what youre protesting about. Im really keen to hear what your message is to israel. What your message is to israel. Find out what happens when suella takes the fight to them and your member of staff, did you not fancy . Maybe if you are a member of staff, which i suspect that you might be, yeah. How do you feel about producing a crop of students who dont want to engage with a Major Political figure on a Major Political figure on a Major Political issue . Whos more political issue . Whos more cowardly . The students or the staff . Find out. Ive got tomorrows front pages with the telegraphs allison pierce and tory peer lord shaun bailey and ex labour Party Adviser matthew laza. Okay, now look, whats this . Very closely. What do you this . Very closely. What do you think this german politician does next . Yeah. All right, ill show you. I cant show you anymore. Suella braverman confronts the gaza students. Who wins this. Next . Patrick. Thank you. The top stories from the gb newsroom. A damaged air valve on a pipe in a field containing cattle has been identified as a potential source, leading to small traces of parasite in a local water network. Thousands of households in devon have been told to boil their water before drinking it for another week, after a parasite was found in a key reservoir. The Uk Health Security Agency says 22 people are confirmed to have become sick , with 70 other cases of sick, with 70 other cases of diarrhoea and vomiting under investigation. Southwest waters investigation. Southwest waters chief customer officer says its possible that cattle manure caused the contamination. The caused the contamination. The company has apologised and is offering £100 of compensation to those affected. Sir keir starmer those affected. Sir keir starmer has told gb news therell be no tax cuts under a Labour Government until the economy is back on the path to growth. The labour leader says that while he wants to keep the tax burden as low as possible, he also wants to ensure that Living Standards improve. He said british people deserve to know that future generations will enjoy better opportunities. But he says that can only be achieved with tangible steps. If we, have said we will raise taxes, weve set out what we will raise and what well spend the money on. So what you did hear this morning is that were going to get rid of the tax break for private schools and use that money for the teachers. We need in our state secondary schools. We did here is were going to get rid of the non dom status properly and use that money towards reducing, reducing, waiting lists. The tax burden on people is as high as its ever been under this government, you know, this has been the tax rising government of all time. Rising government of all time. Cambridge university has announced it will host this weeks graduations elsewhere as a pro palestine protest camp remains outside the venue. Its hosted ceremonies since the 18th century. Protesters pitched tents on a lawn outside senate house yesterday, with graduation ceremonies due to take place there tomorrow and saturday. But there tomorrow and saturday. But the University Says its taken the University Says its taken the difficult decision to hold the difficult decision to hold the event at an undisclosed alternative location. Gb news were there earlier as former home secretary Suella Braverman visited the cambridge fought palestines encampments as she attempted to talk to activists and students about the protests. And students about the protests. And lawyers for donald trump painted his former fixer as someone who celebrated the former president s legal troubles. As the hush money troubles. As the hush money trial continues today, the court was played audio clips of Michael Cohen saying the case fills him with delight and that he felt giddy with hope and laughter. He felt giddy with hope and laughter. Imagining mr trump in prison. The former president faces 34 counts of falsifying Business Records in relation to a payment to a former adult film star. He denies any wrongdoing. For the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gb news. Com alerts. Now its back to. Patrick. Student pro palestine protests are taking place right across the country, most notably at Cambridge University. Seen as the pinnacle of academia in britain and possibly the world. This lot are the best of the best, the brightest of the bright. These students have laid out an audacious list of demands they say theyre not afraid to take radical action. They see themselves as Freedom Fighters for the people of palestine , who for the people of palestine, who will stop at nothing to prevent a genocide. Carving their names a genocide. Carving their names into the oak tree of history spurred on by the revolutionary communist party they hate the tories. They hate former home secretary Suella Braverman, the woman who called out hate marches. The woman who demanded the police take hard action against them. The woman they all make tiktok videos about calling her evil , make tiktok videos about calling her evil, disgusting and vile. So we decided to present this lot of courageous, intellectually profound, hard and activists with the lady herself. Former home secretary Suella Braverman. This was their moment, the moment they could tell their grandchildren about their opportunity to stick it to and debate their public enemy number one student activists all around the country are looking at the students of cambridge right now, holding their breath and saying, come on, make this opportunity count. Viva La Revolucion i revolucion i am genuinely im here, genuinely , to learn and to hear genuinely, to learn and to hear their points of view give them an opportunity to send their message out, im not here to get into a fight. Im not here to debate necessarily. Im coming with a sincere intention to engage. I am quite interested as well as how theyre managing their revision, their exams and protesting against israel at the same time. That is multitasking. Same time. That is multitasking. What well be able to see from our other cameramen is that theres an encampment here, and theres an encampment here, and theres another encampment a little bit further down an as well. So whats your initial impression of what were seeing here in front of us, this encampment . Well, i mean, this is the Beautiful College of kings college. It has a very prominent place in the city of cambridge, andifs place in the city of cambridge, and its on one of the main thoroughfares of the city, kings parade, which is often rain or shine, quite bustling. Rain or shine, quite bustling. Theres a lovely set of shops, ive got to say, it is unsightly. It doesnt do justice to the beautiful architecture of this college, and i am quite surprised that its allowed to take place on college grounds, because traditionally you you cant walk on the grass, let alone put a tent up on the grass. I dont know if those rules have changed since i was here, but it is quite surprising that the College Authorities have allowed this kind of , have allowed this kind of, occupation to take place. Yeah, indeed. Yeah, indeed. I mean, theres quite a thorough job here, isnt it . Theyve got signs up saying divest now, and theres a lot of palestinian flags, as you would expect. And there are some expect. And there are some individuals here who might be worth just seeing whether or not they want to have a quick chat, which i should. I see if the shop with you. Yeah, sure. All right. Okay. Hello, guys, could i just ask, do you fancy having a quick chat with suella at all . Its no good. It might be a Good Opportunity to get your points across to someone. Any. No. Okay, lets keep walking. Do you want to ask them anything directly or very interested to find out their views . Very keen to hear what their thoughts are on this issue and keen to hear their message. What are you here protesting about . Are you here protesting about . Might not get a better opportunity than this to talk to us. Whats your message to the Palestinian People . Whats your message to hamas . Whats your message to hamas . Whats your message to hamas . Whats your message to israel . Message to israel . No. Okay. Well we can just we can just keep walking, cant we, so weve got a couple of signs here. Lets have a look. So Cambridge Jews for justice in palestine is one of the signs there. What do you make of signs like that . Because there are signs like that out. A lot of these protests, you know. Well, listen, i mean, its a really emotive issue and i appreciate there are strong views on, you know, in which where people support the cause of the Palestinian People and they believe that Palestinian People deserve a homeland and they deserve security. And i they deserve security. And i believe that actually, i believe the Palestinian People deserve a homeland. I also believe the israeli people have a right to their homeland and a right to live in peace and security, right now , my view is that right now, my view is that theres a very brutal conflict because israel is defending itself against a death cult called hamas, which runs palestine and which is intent on eradicating jews in israel from the face of the. Got a few people here now, quite often youll see that they dont seem particularly intent on showing their faces. I dont know if you might be able to engage with people. Hello im just wondering if youd like to have any kind of discussion at all with suella today. Hi, im suella im keen to find out your views and what youre protesting about. Youre protesting about. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. No interested in why youre covering your faces. Is it a covering your faces. Is it a covid or a Health Measure . No covid or a Health Measure . No comment. No can i just ask, are you students at the university or just from around the area . Nothing. No. No. Okay, fine. Okay. Interesting yeah. And what were you expecting . You know, did you think that maybe people might engage a little bit with you, so feel very strongly. These are supposed to be some of the brightest and the best students in the land. And taught in the art of articulating their views and expressing arguments in a coherent way. And im interested in hearing their arguments. Yeah. Anyone engaging and listening what was what would be your your your main question to some of the individuals . Im really keen to hear what your message is to israel. Yeah nothing interested to hear your message to hamas. No comment. Do message to hamas. No comment. Do you think the hostages should be released now . Released now . No. No. I think we keep walking. I think we keep walking. I think we keep walking. Not. Not. Not. Not very, dont know if you would like to have a quick chat with us, sir, at all today. With us, sir, at all today. Hi there. Go on. You. Very nice. Im suella, can i ask you what your message is to israel . What your message is to israel . Yep. Right. Could could i ask you what your message is to hamas . Silence, guys. Hamas . Silence, guys. Anyone willing to just explain a couple of bits and bobs . What you guys are doing here, why its so important to you, what the demands are or anything. No vegan and not fruit needed. Vegan and nut free food. Needed. Vegan and nut free food. Thats what it says is needed, right . Well, there we go. Morning everybody. Hi, im Suella Braverman mp. Im here to Suella Braverman mp. Im here to inquire about what your protesting about and give you an opportunity to send your message onto national television. No. Onto national television. No. Okay all right. Well fascinating really because i thought that maybe they would, give some form of response or. Yeah, yeah, i think theyd have a line so strongly about it. Well, to go to all of this trouble to camp out, spend their time in the rain and the pretty miserable english weather. Yeah. And to maintain a vow of silence is intriguing. Listen, university should be a safe place. It should be a place for discussion and free debate. What im concerned about is, you know, protesters , shutting down know, protesters, shutting down other points of view. We can see here, you know, people dont want to engage. Yeah they dont want to engage. Yeah they dont want to, discuss. Hey, guys, can i just just ask at all if youd like to just ask at all if youd like to just ask at all if youd like to just ask a couple of basic questions. Its a really Good Opportunity to talk to a former home secretary it looks like a gimmick. It looks like a stunt. Yeah is it actually sincere . I mean, you heard me asking to a couple of them there. Look, are you actually students . And i am quite sceptical and quite sceptical as to whether or not they are. Im just wondering if you might want to explain to us a little bit why this cause means so much to you, and whats going on for you. Yeah, im just going on for you. Yeah, im just wondering if youd like to have a quick chat at all. Just about why. Why this all means so much to you. Do you want to engage at all with anyone . Great opportunity here. Silence. Whats your message to israel . No response. To israel . No response. I just wonder , you know, when i just wonder, you know, when you tell your friends later that you tell your friends later that you had an opportunity to talk to suella and they say, what did you do when you turned your back . He says, its a liberated zone, so i dont know if you can see the sign there. Theres a sign there that says liberated zone, right . Okay. Interesting. This is ouridea okay. Interesting. This is our idea of liberation. Presumably standing in the rain, getting wet, masks on, balaclavas. Balaclavas. Oh, what did he say . So he said, what did he say . Get out of our effing campus. Get out of our effing campus. Oh, really . Oh, really . Okay, so i didnt hear you . Okay, so i didnt hear you . Okay, so i didnt hear you . No. How does it make you feel . Because when you. So you initially, you were very quick to call things hate marches. I know a lot of people completely agree with you about that. By the way. You you must get quite a lot of stick sometimes when you walk around. I mean, that person just muttered it under his breath and then legged it so how does it affect you . Does it, doesit how does it affect you . Does it, does it does it bother you at all when people have those views about you . Listen, i mean, there has been a very vitriolic response to me from some quarters, particularly in relation to the stance ive taken on the marches. And i still call them hate marches when youve got hundreds of thousands of people chanting anti semitic slogans, chanting anti semitic slogans, chanting jihad , where, you know, chanting jihad, where, you know, theyve crowded out other voices and jewish people. I think thats hatred. Its not every Single Person , but there is Single Person, but there is a very strong element of hatred. And the police have arrested hundreds of people. You dont get into politics and you dont go into public life. If you cant handle the heat, you dont take necessary, albeit uncomfortable, positions. If youre not ready for the pushback. And im here to tell the truth. I tried as home secretary to do that. I will constantly endeavour to do that as a politician. Im put here in parliament. Its a privilege and i owe people the truth. However uncomfortable that may be for, for others. And it might not be popular with everybody. It might, in fact upset or offend some people. But if its the truth, im not going to resile from it. There is a question id actually always wanted to ask you, because i wondered if you did feel a little bit let down by the police in the early days of these protests, when they were especially around london, because i know a lot of gb news viewers and listeners were saying, look, come on, weve got to just stop this. Weve got to nip this in the bud. And weve got to nip this in the bud. And it felt like you were banging your head against a brick wall there. How was that what it was . Were you a bit disappointed . Thats thats a good way of putting it, patrick, i mean, over the month of october, going into november, i was pulling my hair out, really, with these marches. They were getting bigger and more aggressive and the marches were getting more emboldened. And the police were standing by and letting it happen. And you know, i would talk to the police a lot trying to urge them to take a more robust stance to arrest people who were breaking the law, whether its scaling the war memorials, whether it was firing off flares, whether it was wearing face masks in breach of orders, they just wouldnt do it. And it was frustrating. And, you know , thats eventually why you know, thats eventually why i couldnt stay in the role. You know , i lost confidence in the know, i lost confidence in the police to properly police those marches, maintain public order and keep people safe. And im afraid theres still been a wholesale failure of policing when it comes to these marches, as israel does move into rafah , as israel does move into rafah, thats going to be the next big issue for a lot of people who are camped out at places like this. Yeah, there is a lot of strong imagery coming out online about people , you know, about about people, you know, about death and destruction, especially involving children, etc. A lot of very emotive stuff. Does that Israeli Military action become increasingly hard to justify because were probably going to see them get more and more angry here. Well listen, all war is tragedy. Its been it reflects a failure of political process and diplomacy and civilians dying in gaza, gaza and civilians being killed is a tragedy. Theres no killed is a tragedy. Theres no question about that. Equally tragic is the brutal attack on innocent israeli civilians by hamas on october the 7th, and unfortunately, the need for israel to defend itself, unfortunately, the need for israel to defend itself , because israel to defend itself, because if it doesnt go into rafah and eliminate hamas, kill or arrest the senior hamas leaders , the senior hamas leaders, release the hostages, then hamas will just do this again to israel. So they have no choice. And i support israel in going into rafah. And im disappointed that the uk government doesnt. That the uk government doesnt. Okay, so you actually think we should be stronger and be more vocal in our support for israel going into rafah . I think israel is on the right side of this debate to defend itself. And you know, western allies, western democratic allies should be supporting israel in her fight. But, i mean, when it comes to here, what i have been also disappointed by is the lack of robust and strong leadership. You know , weve had the you know, weve had the apologies. Weve had the apologies. Weve had the apologies for the apologies by the police. Weve had the speeches on downings, on the steps of downing street by the Prime Minister, and nothings changed. I know jewish people who have left the United Kingdom because its just not safe for them. They dont feel safe here anymore. So this problem has got out of control. Theres been a failure to deal with it, and i really worry for the future of our social cohesion, our communities, our democratic discourse , freedom of speech and discourse, freedom of speech and Mutual Respect because its actually very harmful for a cohesive society. Cohesive society. All right. Well, we are now live in the studio with the lady herself. Suella braverman , thank herself. Suella braverman, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for taking the time earlier today. Okay. So lets address the elephant in the room early doors, which is you were met with a wall of silence there. What do you make of that then . Well, i went there with a genuine intention to learn. Listen in and discuss in a respectful and rational way. I appreciate this is a really emotive subject. People have strongly held views. My views are very well known. I believe in israels right to defend itself. After the massacre of october the 7th, led by hamas. October the 7th, led by hamas. Theyre a brutal death cult and israel must do whatever it needs to do militarily to eliminate hamas and secure the security of its people. And i went there and what we were met with is, as your footage shows, a wall of silence and, you know, slightly surprising, really , i kind of surprising, really, i kind of thought, you know, these are going to be erudite , you know, going to be erudite, you know, confident students, informed, knowledgeable , all theyve knowledgeable, all theyve theyre all quite passionate. Theyve taken a stance to camp out in the rain and make a point , i thought that they would at least answer some basic question as they refused or were unable to do so. I can only conclude they dont have robust arguments, or they didnt feel confident about actually entering into a dialogue. Well , one entering into a dialogue. Well, one thing that was quite interesting was as i was on the train on the way back from this, i started to get a couple of direct messages on twitter from people who were at that encampment who were saying, actually, we maybe would quite like to engage with you. So what weve done is probably in about five minutes time, weve got somebody on whos going to come in and have that discussion with you and have that kind of discussion that you were hoping to have with them, earlier on today. So. So well park that there for now. Id like to talk to you a bit about some of the points that we made towards the back end of that one thing that is going to be a massive point of contention in the coming weeks is israels continued invasion into rafah. That is going to be a massive issue. Were going to see an increased presence out on the streets, and a lot of people might decide to join more of these encampments as a result of what they might see on social media. As a result of that, how would you respond to that strength of feeling that israel should should stop now . I disagree with that. Listen, israel is a sovereign state. Its a democratically elected state. And they have an armed forces, one of the actually most professional and expert armed military forces in the world, actually , i recently went to actually, i recently went to israel. I met with senior Israeli Defence force personnel, political figures, survivors of the massacre. You know, parents who lost their children in horrific circumstances , horrific circumstances, unspeakable tragedy. And, you know , the enemy here is not, the know, the enemy here is not, the people of gaza. Its not innocent palestinians , its innocent palestinians, its hamas. And there is no question about that. Israel needs to about that. Israel needs to defeat hamas, and theyve had some success in doing so. Hamas runs the gaza strip effectively. They have a very complex network of tunnels spanning the territory of gaza. They run a lot of the administration, and they are a brutal force. They kill innocent gazans themselves. Theyre blocking the distribution of aid within gaza , distribution of aid within gaza, and they oppress women. They oppress gay people, they oppress minority groups. They are a brutal force. And in fact, guards and civilians are being killed by hamas themselves. So its right that israel takes whatever measures they deem necessary to eliminate and degrade hamas. Theyve done so. Degrade hamas. Theyve done so. Theyve got eliminated or degraded about 18 out of 20 or so battalions. But there still so battalions. But there still remain some battalions in rafah senior hamas personnel in rafah and importantly, the hostages are many. As far as youre concerned, our government should remain resolute that israel needs to finish the job. Unquestionably , vie israel is unquestionably, vie israel is one of our closest allies in the region. Its one of the only democratic states in the region, and we support israel to defend herself in the face of such brutality and threats on her borders. And therefore, you know , we must we must continue. And im disappointed. Im disappointed by, lord camerons recent stance when he says he, you know, he hasnt seen some of the detailed plans and therefore they dont. The uk government doesnt, at this point in time, support israels operation in rafah. I you know, the reality is with or without uk support, israel is going to go into rafah and do what they need to do again. Again this lets remember this is against hamas. This is not about killing innocent gazans. This is not about killing innocent palestinians. Killing innocent palestinians. This war is a tragedy. This is a tragedy on all fronts. Tragedy on all fronts. Unfortunately, innocent civilians are killed in war unintentionally. And that is, unintentionally. And that is, you know, really sad when we see children in, in gaza being killed, when we see civilians being killed, that is, unfortunately a tragedy of war. And some people have described i probably have myself at times, to be honest with you, describe some of those individuals that we see outside those University Cameras as hamas is useful idiots. And how concerned , though, should concerned, though, should ordinary members of the public be about sympathy for hamas amongst especially young people, but certain communities as well, in this country perhaps pockets of the Muslim Community in this country, how concerned should people be . You know, you you were in the home office, youve seen behind the curtain how big a problem is that sympathy there for hamas, do you think in britain . I think its a considerable problem. Weve seen the marches take place now on a regular bafisin take place now on a regular basis in london and all around the country. Hundreds of thousands of people on a regular bafis thousands of people on a regular basis are taking to the streets to celebrate the events of october the 7th, even before israel took defensive measures, the marches started back in october. You know, this was not about israels defensive measures. This is what a to celebrate what happened on october the 7th. Weve had hundreds of arrests of people glorifying and celebrating hamas and terrorism , totally abhorrent and terrorism, totally abhorrent in our country. And im afraid this is corrosive to our sense of common unity and identity. In britain. Its breaking up our society, and we really need to have a firmer line taken by the authorities. So here in the University Context , the failure University Context, the failure lies with the leadership. The failure lies with the University Authorities, the College Authorities, the College Authorities , for failing to stop authorities, for failing to stop anti semitism on campus, stop intimidation and harassment on campus, and to actually take a firm line, you know, for example , a few months ago we saw a student rip apart one of the portraits of balfour in trinity college. What happened there . What happened there . Its gone quiet, hasnt it . Its gone quiet, hasnt it . What happened there . Now that, to my mind, as an observer, that looked like a clear cut case of criminal damage. Well, we were looking at it now on the screens. If youre watching us on television, i mean, it is. Its slashing with a knife and nothings happened as far as real aware, as far as im aware, nothing has happened, neither by the College Authorities or the police. That is, you know, that is sending a message that that is tolerated or even worse, encouraged and supported. Now, thatis encouraged and supported. Now, that is totally unacceptable by the College Authorities. Where is the line . And, you know, it is the line . And, you know, it seems that every time were seeing a double standard being appued seeing a double standard being applied so that a blind eye is turned to this kind of behaviour, its emboldened. Its enabled, and then we get more and more threatening and abusive and more threatening and abusive and frankly, Unacceptable Behaviour in our in campus , but behaviour in our in campus, but also within our society. Okay. And just just one more with you before we do have that discussion with somebody who is responsible for organising some of these, these protests as well. Can i just ask, when you were making these points, presumably when you were home secretary, how how much resistance were you met with . What was that like . Because, you know, you must be making points like this. You must have also. We havent got time to talk about it tonight, but making similar points like you were making about illegal immigration, for example. And it did feel a little bit maybe like you, it was falling on deaf ears. Was it . Well, patrick ultimately i had to leave the government because, you know, i wasnt supported on this issue and i left the government over this issue. I left the government over this issue. I was encouraging a tougher line. I wanted the police to arrest the criminals, not just stand by doing nothing. I wanted Stronger Political leadership from the Prime Minister to change the laws more urgently. We have an urgently. We have an insufficiency of our laws and you know , at the end of the day, you know, at the end of the day, i wasnt met with the sufficient support and thats why to i had leave the government. All right. All right. Okay. Well, look, stay where you are. Thats all right. And so. Well, its not going anywhere because we have found one student. Yes, one student who will speak to her about this conflict in gaza. So, i mean, we had to really go looking for this, but yes, finally, here we go. Suella braverman. Well finally be having a discussion with one of the welcome back to Patrick Christys. Tonight we are only on gb news. Now i am joined by Suella Braverman. And earlier Suella Braverman. And earlier today, we gave protesters at Cambridge University the opportunity of a lifetime, really, to explain and justify their position to the former home secretary. Sadly, no one actually there decided that they wanted to engage. But we have since found one individual who would like to have their say with suella. So welcome, fiona. Thank you very much. Great to have you on the show and the National Campaigns coordinator for the revolutionary communist party. And fiona has been actively involved in the student encampments. And, yeah, this is an opportunity now, i think, for an opportunity now, i think, for a bit of engagement, a bit of dialogue really, which is what were after. So. So anything. Right. So anything. Right. Thank you. Well, i respect your opinions and thank you for coming on to the show to take part in the discussion, one of my first questions that i was very keen to ask, i mean, were you at the encampment, Cambridge One, but other ones. Other ones. Okay. And can i ask you what your view is of the events of october the 7th . What do you what do you think happened on october the 7th in israel . Well, obviously the camps havent started because of october the 7th specifically. Theyre starting. I mean, this week in loads of encampments up and down the country, theyve been like celebrating and having to, like, memorise the fact that this week commemorates the nakba , which took place 76 years ago, which means catastrophe, which is a massive symbol of what israel has been doing for the last 76 years. This isnt about october 7. And to start with, thatis october 7. And to start with, that is just entirely disingenuous. I think on your part, i really want to say that i think its great, actually, that you went to that camp today , and tried to talk to those students, and you kind of embarrassed yourself, i would say, whilst doing that, because it was a reminder for me, and im sure for other people watching that actually the Palestine Movement brought you down and the Palestine Movement has the potential to bring down lots of other tory ministers and the whole tory government, and not just the tory government. I not just the tory government. I would say any government and any mainstream Political Party that is backing what israel is doing right now, which is a genocide, and thats what people protest. Do you want to come back to that, bringing down the government, well, so youre saying your encampment is nothing to do with the events of october the 7th or israel response to october the 7th . Is thatis response to october the 7th . Is that is that what youre saying . Its totally detached to october the 7th and israels response, the 7th and israels response, the only thing that is detached, i would say, is actually your views and your approach to this whole situation and the whole the tory government, the people, the tory government, the people, the student protesters are very attached to what is happening in palestine, and they are doing what they can in order to stop universities who provide, i think, £450 million to the israeli state, to the Israeli Military, rather than investing in their own education on on what they should be putting money into. You are the one and your government is completely out of touch with what actually the majority of people in britain think about whats happening. The majority of people in britain do not support what israel is doing, and actually want us to stop sending weapons. And you were saying today that we should send more, which is complete opposed to what people in britain actually want. So i think youre detached, right. So on on arms. So can i ask you whats your whats your view of hamas . I dont want to talk about hamas. I want to talk about why and the reason that you want to talk about hamas is because you want to keep justifying spending more money for israel. Right . Sunak earlier, a month or two ago, was talking about increasing defence spending to 2. 5. They want to spend loads of money on that, but no money on the nhs, no money on education. So you want to cut pensions, you want to cut council budgets. Want to cut council budgets. Thats what the government that you support is doing, which is causing serious suffering in this is about. So this is not to do with hamas. Its not to do with israel because the conservative government is an anti conservative. Youre bringing up hamas, of course were anti conservative because the conservative government is facilitating and supporting a genocide. And not just that. Its also overseeing a horrific set of policies, austerity policies that are damaging everyones lives in britain today. Okay, so you have no view on hamas and you have no message for hamas, and you have. No, im not here to connection to us. Youre not here. Right . So you dont have a connection to hamas. Okay. And so whats your message . Do you do you believe israel has a right to exist . What is your message to the majority of people in britain who dont support you, who hate the tories, who hate you specifically . Right. You went to specifically . Right. You went to cambridge. You were saying. You were saying that you want a fair question. I dont want i dont want a pilot. I dont want to pile in and look absolutely, you know, crack on as far as im concerned. But she did ask you a direct question i think our viewers would like to know, do do you think israel has a right to exist . I think thats a silly question, to be honest. And i think youre putting youre asking the wrong questions. Youre asking those questions to distract from the Central Point that i was making, which is that these the reason you dont like these the reason you dont like these student protesters and you dont like these encampments . One is because theyve already brought you down. But its two its because of what it represents, which is that a growing movement and a growing feeling in this country, which is against the tories and against any main Political Party. You have made that point. I am very interested, although when i when i did go there, there were lots of posters about israel, there were posters about israel, there were posters about israel, there were posters about palestine and there were placards about gaza. So you cant completely ignore the issue about whats happening in israel. And lets talk about it. Im asking you to talk about what the israeli state has done for the israeli state has done for the last 76 years. So would you say that israel has a right to defend itself . Israel does not have the right to do what it is doing right to do what it is doing right now, which is a genocide which is the criminal enslavement and trapping people in certain places and then saying, youve got to move somewhere else. The ongoing invasion of rafah that has been spoken about today, the displacement of millions of people, of course, they dont have the right to do that. And no one thinks they do. Right. And you posing those questions is exactly what makes students in cambridge think, i dont want to talk to you. I dont want to talk to any war criminal. I want to grow this encampment. I want to grow this encampment. I want to grow this encampment. I want to grow a movement. Its quite its quite a strong stuff. I mean, as far as criminal. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so you are a war criminal. How would you respond . How would you respond to that . I mean, you know, well, you made some interesting points there about genocide. So lets lets focus on that. So the Legal Definition of genocide is the targeted destruction of a group of people defined by their race, their nationality, their ethnicity, or their religion. In what way would you say that israel is targeting a group by those that are serious . In what way is israel targeting a group . So the killing and the injuring of over 100,000 people already in palestine to you doesnt feel like a targeted approach towards specific people, and they are aiming you dont believe that. Aiming you dont believe that. You dont believe that at all. And youre saying, my point to you because ive listened to you quite a lot, what do you say about the very legitimate aim i would put to you that israel is targeting a terrorist organisation called hamas and is aiming to degrade, disable and even kill hamas terrorists. Even kill hamas terrorists. So youre i dont agree with that. I disagree with that completely. And calling legitimate. Youre talking about legal even if you want to talk about the legal world law, whatever. All all of those like institutions , the international institutions, the International Court of justice have also said that legally, what is happening and what israel is doing is, is and what israel is doing is, is a genocide and thats moving towards a genocide. Lets stick towards a genocide. Lets stick to and i think that and i think, okay, lets stick to facts. That is 40,000 people dead more than that. Thats injured millions of people displaced. That is the reality. Those are the facts on the ground. And well again, lets stay with facts. So the International Court of justice has not said it doesnt. It doesnt matter at the end of the day, i think it i mean, we can argue over specific words. We can argue over specific words. It is a fact that they are enacting a horrific massacre right now. And you talking about hamas, its just a smokescreen for their general interests in the region. And its not just them acting by themselves, is it . America and its not just them acting by themselves, is it . America is backing them financially, militarily, and our government is backing them financially, militarily, and students are protesting because they want to stop their universities investing in that entire system. And its not just the students who are protesting. Obviously, there have been protests all up and down the country, protests that you try to attack and fail to do, and the protests grew. Ever since then because you are out of touch with what people actually think and actually want. Well, thats interesting because one of the one of the key things, one of the yeah, one of the key things that defined that particular moment, really, of british political history was, was was the hate marches situation. Yeah. Okay yes. So, you know, how would you respond to some of the things that have been said there about that . Well, i mean, can i just want to correct a few things for the record. So the International Court of justice and i think you dismissed them as words and in, you know, irrelevancies, i dont think what the International Court of justice says is, you know, negligible. The International Court of justice has not said categorically that israel is committing genocide. Okay. The International Court of justice has said that the Palestinian People may have a plausible right to be protected from genocide , and no one would from genocide, and no one would disagree with that. But we must be careful about miscommunicating and misrepresenting what the International Court has said. It has not said, and indeed no authority has said that israel is committing genocide. There is no evidence for a genocide, no. Second thing i would also say is that real . The, the. Were going back to the marches now, the issue of the marches of course, everybody has the right to peaceful protest and expressing their views. But what we have seen and id be interested in your views, is anti semitism , your views, is anti semitism, weve seen from the river to the sea. Palestine will be free. Thatis sea. Palestine will be free. That is an anti semitic chant calling for the eradication of israel, the eradication of israelis and the eradication of jewish people. Youre a liar. Youre a liar on every single one of these mass protests right there is a huge jewish block in all of these encampments. The encampments that you went to today, even in cambridge, talking about all this kind of stuff, the cambridge group, Cambridge Jews for justice, they said you are weaponizing their identity to promote a culture war. And thats all this is because youve got no actual real policies or statements or anything to offer people in this country. Lets be honest, the reason youre here and the reason youre here and the reason youre here and the reason you went today is because you want to be the leader of the tory party. Youre interested in your career. Youre interested in promoting that. So thats why you come out. Can i ask your lie in could i ask i mean, this is to be honest and thats its completely false to call the marches anti semitic. People dont believe that they are. Im completely gripped by this. Im sure most people are. But, are you not just dismissing anti semitism there because there is anti semitism . I mean, ihave there is anti semitism . I mean, i have heard anti semitism out some of these marches. I have been amongst quite a few ones, not the ones i was at today. Absolutely, but quite a few of the ones i mean, i have been and quite often when you scratch the surface a bit, there are some anti semitic views you might come across like you are dismissing anti semitism a bit. I dont think it does, because the thing is, like, lets talk about the broader context of this, which is Suella Braverman lecturing anyone about racism, i dont think is going to i dont think anyones going to i dont think anyones going to listen to that. Basically, you and your government have been the architects of horrific racist policies, and youre talking about hatred. Youre talking about hatred. Youre talking about hatred. Youre talking about violence, youre talking about violence, youre talking about violence, youre talking about all of these terrible things. I was watching the thing today. Youre saying war is a tragedy and all of this kind of stuff. First of all, kind of stuff. First of all, capitalism produces all of that tragedy produces racism produces all these. I mean, i do wonder if thats a Central Point, isnt it . Is it . Is it is it in is it is it a it . Is it is it a look . In is it is it a look . Ill it . Is it is it a look . Ill let you come on this. But you know, there have been the allegations of racism there. But again, it is actually your main argument for you is you want to smash the capitalist system. Absolutely. Because capitalism produces war and produces imperialism , which produces imperialism, which fundamentally has been driving everything that has happened over the last 76 years. It isnt just about the last seven months or anything like this. Im entirely opposed to the capitalist system and the horrors that it produces across the world in many different places, but also in this country too. And thats what you support. And okay, well, well, lets, lets, lets come back to a couple of points there. So theres the racism stuff and theres the capitalism stuff. So go on and theres the point which is often lost in this debate. So you mentioned jewish people who are supporting the encampments, jewish people on the marches that is, again, a misrepresentation of the situation. The only jewish people who are accepted as part of these encampments and marches are people, jewish people who dont support the state of israel. And there are some jews. There are a minority of jewish people within the Jewish Community who are not supportive of the concept of a state of israel. Jewish people who disagree with you, i would argue, would not be welcome on your marches. They would be intimidated and they would feel, harassed and uncomfortable. And in fact , weve got evidence of in fact, weve got evidence of many incidents of anti semitism since october the 7th on campus around the country, where jewish students have felt that they cannot express themselves and they cannot, behave and, and, and live freely on campus. And thats thats one important point in terms of the charge against racism. Listen, i mean, against racism. Listen, i mean, thats i dont agree with that. You know, the government and our government policy is to control migration. Thats something that migration. Thats something that weve been elected to do. We have a mandate to do that. And have a mandate to do that. And its something that we owe the british people. And then lastly, on the majority of the british people, capitalism, we have the rest of your government capitalism, listen , we could capitalism, listen, we could talk for hours about capitalism, but i would just point out , you but i would just point out, you know, your your your trainers, your your bracelet , everything your your bracelet, everything youre wearing, the coffee you had this morning, the car you drove by workers, the car you drove by workers, the car you drove in today are all products of capitalism. Were in this studio. Were living in a free and Democratic Society because were beneficial edges of capitalism, growth, enterprise and freedom. And freedom. No, the only people who really interesting. And what i would challenge you to think about and reflect on is as a beneficiary of capitalism, where you have a lot of luxury comparatively , by of luxury comparatively, by global standards, you are actually , undermining the very actually, undermining the very system that has brought millions of people, in fact, billions of people out of poverty around the world. And brought education, good standards, good health care, clean water, education, fair treatment to girls, 5 million people, housing 5 million people, housing 5 million children, prosperity to the world, 5 million children every single year die needlessly of malnutrition , of preventable diseases. And you sit here saying that its bringing people. Can i ask, can i can i talk about the palestine . Thats exactly, exactly that. So i just want to i want to ask you a point on this, because ive now been to a few of these, a couple of these student encampments. Right. Im not convinced that the vast majority of people at these encampments are actually students at those universities. Could you explain about how you organise these . Because i think its important for people to know, like the Cambridge One as one at oxford, theres been one, i think, at sheffield and leeds in places like that, because its easy to give the impression that these are students at those universities, and i just dont think they are. Are they . And why do they wear masks . They are. Are they Wearing Masks . Why are they concealing there . People wear masks. Some people dont. They are. These are pretty much everyone was wearing a mask. Student protests right. These are student protests. And in some places other people not students, have gotten involved. And i think thats a great all these students are at university. So i think the staff from those universities should get involved. And in loads of almost every single one of the encampments, their statements of support from the staff who want to encourage the students, and not just that wider people from the Community Coming to provide food, to provide support for what the students are doing. And the reason that theyre doing thatis the reason that theyre doing that is because everyone has realised that you cannot appeal to politicians. Theres not a single politician in this country that is actually going to do something to try and stop whats taking place, and they are realising the only faith that people can have, the only power that people really have is in themselves. And thats what in themselves. And thats what im here to promote. And thats why we need to widen out the encampments and grow the movement to beyond what it currently is doing, so that we can actually halt the government and our and their support for the war machine in. Okay. Right. Okay. Right. So there we go. So ill give the final word on this because we are very pressed for time. You know, you have had a Good Opportunity here to engage with somebody you know, in a whole hearted discussion about what youre seeing, whats your whats your view on what weve heard . Well, having, discussed a little bit, i mean, you know, one thing that strikes me is, you know, the lack of facts in the conversation and in, in, in the conversation and in, in, in the debate, the slightly irrational perspective on, you know, basic, facts of our society, of which youre a beneficiary , like capitalism, beneficiary, like capitalism, but youll never, you know, we wont we wont agree on that. And ultimately, your refusal to answer basic questions about hamas and israels right to defend herself right now, its, you know , interesting to hear you know, interesting to hear your views. Were not going to agree. Agree. Ill give you a fact. 40,000 People Killed by israel, nearly 100,000 injured in the process, millions of people displaced, a fact that is a fact. Could i just ask one more . Could i just ask one more . Just one more important. And youre a liar. One more really important point. Just, you know, its a yes or no, really. Before we go, does israel have a right to exist . This is the wrong question. This is the wrong question. Well youre asking yeah. Well youre asking yeah. Well, okay. I think thats quite. And should the hostages be released, listen, like why is there why is this conflict happening in the first place . Who is responsible for it . Who is the responsible . Do you believe women were raped on october the 7th by hamas . I believe there is a lot of violence taking place across that whole region. And i think western imperialists are the first people who set up that problem in the first place. And theyre continuing to back everything that netanyahu refusing to condemn hamas , and refusing to condemn hamas, and you refuse to condemn the whole system that produced all of that violence in the first place . Thank both of you. Thank you very much. I do honestly think thatis very much. I do honestly think that is one of the most gripping parts of television ive been a parts of television ive been a part of, and i want to say massive thank you for coming in and for talking seriously, and i want to say a massive thank you to you as well, for being a part of todays output. So both of you genuinely thank you very, very much. Right. Okay gosh. Well, i would like to just do a little bit of a recap quickly now of some of the things that went on at this, this cambridge pro palestine student protesters group, and ive just got a little clip for you now, one while we play that and well bnng while we play that and well bring my panel in where Cambridge Scholars debated the works of Martin Luther in the early 16th century, the birthplace of the reformer in england. If you just pan it around, do you want to have any kind of debate or discussion whatsoever, any kind of debate . Do you want to engage with the reasons why youre here or the reasons why youre here or the reasons for your cause, or even tell us what your demands are . Tell us what your demands are . No, i just wanted to just ask you a quick question. We you know, went out of our way to present you with a former home secretary here, and you chose not to engage. Did you bottle it a bit . Do you think do you think you bottled it . Maybe a bit . Or do you guys just not want anything to say at this particular time . Okay. It was a great opportunity. Do you think you guys bottled it a little bit there or not . No hello. Im just asking him why people bottled it when the home secretary, former home secretary was here. No. Okay all right, mate, why did you bottle it when the former home secretary was here . Right. Okay, so my panel are now back in, and alison, ill start with you. Look, strong points on either side there. I do think that the refusal to condemn hamas to say that israel should exist, or that women were raped on october the 7th, or that the hostages should be released, were possibly some standout moments there. Im just absolutely reeling. That young woman, fiona, called our former home secretary a war criminal. Absolutely unbelievable, well, at least we know what were up against, patrick. Thats all i can say, i know my enemy when i see it, and thats my enemy. No. Its disgusting. Ive been involved with jewish groups. Ive been founded. The British Health fund, the british friends of israel, many, many british jews are leaving the United Kingdom out of fear that they have no future here. So to just say that all jews are on side and theres no problem is outrageous. What do you make of that . What do you make of that . I go back to my earlier point that we that this generation has no ability to negotiate. Thats a horrible political tactic, stating opinion as fact, not willing to listen , not fully not willing to listen, not fully avoiding the questions. Which is avoiding the questions. Which is a shame because in one sense, shes very brave to come on. At least you at least would get into the conversation. But there was no theres no negotiation. Theres no theres no subtlety there. And i think thats a problem as well. And lets be very clear, when asked a direct question, when you then go to personal insults , it then will personal insults, it then will suggest to me that youve lost the argument to call a person a war crime criminal and to say that they were taken down then personally and theyre out of touch would suggest these are things that you might need to look at your ability. She also kept saying that nobody in the uk to suella agrees with you. We just saw the Eurovision Song Contest where the huge number of british votes were cast for the israeli, you know, the israeli. Matthew. What . What did you make of that . Because i mean, you know , that . Because i mean, you know, we say what we like, but fiona has got some incredibly strong views, and she was prepared as quite a young lady to look her former home secretary in the eye and say those views to her on national television. Absolutely. You know, it takes guts to tell a former home secretary that theyre a war criminal. And i mean that seriously, its you know, im good on fiona for coming to put her case. I have to say, i completely disagree with her case. And, you know, its, you know, as somebody whos on the centre left of politics, the far left of politics always claim the moral high ground. But i dont think you can get the moral high ground there when you wont condemn the hostages, when you wont condemn the taking of the hostages, when you wont say whether you whether or not, if you dont think its right, a right to exist, you know, state that position. But i think that was disingenuous on those questions. And i have to remind you that, you know, were talking about Fringe Groups with a few hundred members that isnt to say that i disagree somewhat with suella that, you know, im more im in the line of what the americans say. President biden says and our government says, which is that we need to that, you know, attacking rafe would be wrong, and we need to get more aid in. Thats a long way from some of the things fiona was saying. Yeah, i think i can i can i can see i can see how people are going to be picking the bones out of that for a very long time. I can absolutely hear, you know, students around the country, you know, cheering on fiona there. And i do get that. I do think it is quite concerning that, you know, like israel doesnt have a right to exist or certainly wasnt wanting to say it. Not going to condemn hamas. The hostages shouldnt really be released. And i thought, and see, the problem with those views are it means you cant come to an end. You cant have a you cant have a polarises it. And it means that the mainstream who might want to take who might take a ceasefire stance, get drowned out by the extreme. I also bet that most of the views fiona will have, you know, anti misogyny anti homophobia every other state in the middle east apart from israel are the things those kids hate. All right, look guys, its been one heck of a show. So thank you very much everybody. Thank you thank you thank you i would like to thank Suella Braverman as well for her time today. And thank you all for watching. Ill see you tomorrow at nine. A brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on. Gb news. Good evening. Its time for your latest gb news weather update brought to you by the met office. There will be a few showers around tomorrow, but also some decent warm sunshine before that. A largely dry night ahead once the heavy rain that is affecting central parts at the moment clears away towards the moment clears away towards the west. The low pressure driving the rain is making its way westwards across the uk and as it clears away it will take the worst of the heavy rain with it. So for many it is going to turn largely dry overnight, although across some parts of nonh although across some parts of north wales, Northern England , north wales, Northern England, perhaps into southern scotland, there will be some thicker cloud here. And that cloud could bring some outbreaks of rain elsewhere. There will be some clear skies but temperatures not dropping a huge amount. Most places holding up in double digits. We do need to watch out for some mist and fog first thing, particularly in the southeast. I am expecting a few patches to develop overnight, but they should largely clear quite quickly as we go through the morning tomorrow. Some the morning tomorrow. Some brighter skies across other parts of southern england and wales. Thicker cloud, though for wales. Thicker cloud, though for Northern England and wales, and this bringing some outbreaks of rain even into parts of southern scotland. Sunniest day for Northern Ireland and the rest of scotland, albeit towards the far northwest towards the outer hebrides. Here some thicker cloud could also be bringing some outbreaks of rain first thing tomorrow morning. Otherwise, as we go through the day , the thicker cloud across day, the thicker cloud across some Northern Areas should break up a little bit. So some brightness breaking through here and elsewhere. There will be some decent sunny spells, but also a few showers to watch out for. They should be generally fairly hit and miss in nature, so many of us will avoid them. Do watch out for some heavier ones across parts of scotland, temperatures likely to be a little bit higher than today for many of us. Low 20s quite widely. So feeling pretty warm in any sunshine into the weekend. And on weather. For. On. Good evening. The top stories this hour. A damaged air valve on a pipe in a field containing cattle has been identified as a potential source , leading to potential source, leading to small traces of parasite in a local water network. Thousands of households in devon have been told to boil their water before drinking it for another week, after a parasite was found in a key reservoir. The after a parasite was found in a key reservoir. The Uk Health Security Agency says 22 people are confirmed to have been become sick with 70 other cases of diarrhoea and vomiting under investigation in southwest waters. Chief customer officer says its possible that cattle manure caused the contamination in. The company, has apologised and is offering £115 of compensation to those affected. Compensation to those affected. Sir keir starmer has told