What the Republican Party that the party needs to sit down and figure out not just what are our core values, what are we saying to the american people, how do we get rank and file democrats to get back on board, more importantly we need to look ahead in terms of the 2018 mid term elections and the 2020 elections to ensure that we are adding new voices an fresh blood to the table. And we conclude with Bruce Dickinson, lead singer of iron madden madeen. His new book is called what does this button do. I had no idea that i would be in one of the biggest rock n roll bands in the world at age 59, what, are you kidding me, thats not credible. But just one thing happens after another, and suddenly you end up on lifes biggest roller coaster. Election results, Donna Brazile and bruise dickinson when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following bank of america, life better connected. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose lets start with politics, democrats won elections in virginia, new jersey and new york on tuesday, many see the victory as a rebuke of president trump. Democrats claim governorships in new jersey and virginia, also swept elections in Virginia State legislature and won a tait race in new hampshire. Joining from me washington jerry seib, susan page the Washington Bureau chief for u. S. A. Today and hugh hewitt, host of the Radio Program the hugh hewitt show and a contributor to nbc news. Im pleased to have them here. I will begin with you, hugh, what happened . Well, the republicans got wiped out in virginia, charlie. And i do mean a total and complete wipeout. When one looks at what happened in the Virginia House of delegates where they had a 6634 vote margin and at best will be tied or ahead by one when the votecounting is done, then people get a sense of the breathed and the depth of the reswreks the republican brand yesterday. Ed gillespie has run recently in virginia so we have some metrics that we normally dont have, in lowden county, a very wealthy county Median Income a few years ago was 115,000 a year, about an hour outside of d. C. , ed gillespie won that county narrowly in 2014 in a senate race by 500 votes. He lost it by 23,000 votes last night. Now the population has gone up by about 20,000 but that is still a stunning repudiation of something. So victory has many fathers, a loss is an orphan, in this case there is a paternity suit over who is the orphan. But i think most people will agree it is president trump. Rose well come back to that. Susan page, what happened. 34 of voters in virginia told the exit polls they came out to vote against president trump. So for them at least this was an election that was designed to send a message to the white house. The white house, the president has losses, a lot of these key suburbanites better educated white voters, anan americans and others in the suburbs, that is wh we saw in virginia and in other places including new jersey. Rose and Westchester County here in new york. Jerry what happened. Well look, i think we saw an emergence of antitrump coalition and one that can win in some places. You have upper income whites, millenials, minorities, suburban women and single women, stunning figure that i saw in the exit polls last night and this morning, single women unmarried women went for Ralph Northam the democrat over gill eggs me by 7722 . That is a stunning margin for any Demographic Group and among single women 16 Percentage Points higher than Hillary Clinton did among that group just last year in the president ial campaign. So what you see there is an energized base for the democrats in the emergence of a base. The cautionary note though i would say is that these represent, these figures represent big turnout in what should be blue areas of virginia, where the democrats ran up big numbers but you still see a big swath of red in virginia in central and southern virginia which still looks an awful lot like red Trump Country in the interior of the country. So running up big numbers in areas democrats should win is great. There is still a question about whether they can break through in other areas. Rose did these democrats who won present a positive case rather than simply a case against the president , hugh . I dont think so. Im a virginia voter, i voted for ed gillespie, full disclosure. The house of delegates, that is a measure of not much because it is a 30 day job in one year and a 60 day job in another year and it pays 18,000 a year. So its not something on which a whole lot of effort, time or energy or stra, the Northam Gillespie campaign depended where you were in the state what kind of campaign you saw, in the suburbs of virginia where live was a campaign about tax rates and traffic in other places about confederate memorials. It was just a mel average of different campaigns. I find it difficult to characterize governor elect northam other than a gentleman in the southern style and ed gillespie as a gentleman in the southern style, very affable. Neither of them are trumpian, neither with secretary clinton with long and fixed images in the mind of the public. So i dont think theres really one campaign that we canty off on. Rose well work about the fact that gillespie commercials certainly in the last several weeks of the campaign seemed like trumpian commercials. Yeah, i think that. But they go ahead. I think that ed gillespie was trying to be trumpian without being trump, trying to get trumps issues out there without embracing the president too closely. And it didnt work for him it worked to galvanize some of his voters but it didnt get him even near a majority of the vote and turned off, i think Ed Gillespies tough ads on immigration and gangs helped galvanize democratic voters who in some ways were not that enthused that the progressive wing of the Democratic Party was not that enthused approximate by Ralph Northam who is a pretty moderate guy who voted for gorge work burks twice for president but the fact that ed gillespie used some of trumps cultural issues got some of those voters out. Rose hugh, if gillespie had run as a moderate republican from the place that he came, moderate to conservative republican, would he have fared better or is it simply not the year. It was a nasty primary. He couldnt do it. There was a nasty primary where he ran against a pure trumpian candidate. I interviewed ed gillespie on my radio show a number of times. He always talked about jobs, 50 tax cut 15 tax cut or 5 percent, i cant remember what it was, that is part of the problem, probably, and about the military build up necessary. It was a very abc republicancenter right campaign. Now there may have been other ads playing in different demographics but i think he ran as a traditional republican and indeed some of the trump critiques of him is that he did not embrace the president. I will tell you part of the problem, charlie, the Republican Party as a whole has an image problem. They havent gotten anything done in the United States congress. Zero zip other than the confirmation of justice gorsuch. And so this tax bill becomes a musthave if they want to avoid having happen to their Republican Congress what happened to the Virginia House of delegates. Rose jerry, has the president responded to these Election Results yet. He has responded in some what typical faction by essentially distancing himself from ed gillespie, the loser. The president doesnt embrace losers very much. Saying essentially ed gillespie didnt really embrace me, he worked hard but he didnt really fully embrace me and thats the reason he lost, republicans the economy is great and well see how that works going forward. There may be something to that, the economy is great right now and that tends to work to the benefit of the party in power. There is one other issue we havent discussioned yet which was important last night is health care. It was the most, it was on the minds of voters more than any other issue and it worked to Ralph Northams benefit and it suggests that there is a con undrum for both parties, more for republicans, people dont like o bamarcare, it is unpopular. They are scared about the World Without obamacare at least as much, health care turned out once again much as in 2016 and 2012 to be a big issue. And one that probably worked at least marginally to the democrats benefit. Rose does that mean the republicans should not have touched health care until they had infrastructure, tax reform and then maybe should have return turned to health care. I think you could certainly make an argument to that effect. You can also ager if they were going to touch health care they should have gt init taken care of and moved people into a place they could feel comfortable and that clearly hasnt happened. Were basically in the middle of the river with republicans on health care and that is not a good place to be. The currents are pretty strong. So not having, having engaged on health care and not having accomplished anything on health care is the worst of both record worlds. Rose some say it is dangerous when you give something to somebody and they like it in part, then you take it away, they dont like you in part, hugh . It is absolutely true. Theyre facing this in ways an means as we speak, the markup is going late tonight. And the divide over whether or not to get rid of the obamacare pan date ought not to be a difficult one, republicans should get rid of a mandate that has been unpopular an on which they promise to act in eight years. Senate is thinking about doing it led by tom cotton. The president endorsed it. The perfectly executed half charge gets you killed on the middle of the hill, it is absolutely true. And theyve got to get their act together because they are not delivering, which demoralizes the traditional republican electorate if he same time that the Trump Campaign and the trump this is a coalition government. The Congressional Republicans and the trump republicans. And both sides are blaming each other tonight. And not without good cause on both sides of that coalition. So they both need wins. They both need to come together and to win things. A year is a long time, two more data points, the republican one handily in utah in an open congressional seat just like they have in every other red off year congressional election. And ohio measure number one, get tough on crime measure one overwhelmingly, 8416. So what you see, the constellation that appears depends on the stars you look at. Those are two more data points we should not pass by. Rose what does it do for the democrats other than make them believe something might be really, really possible in 2018 . You know, i dont think it solves all the democrats problems, they are still divided. But we did see progressive democrats liberal democrats turn out for a moderate candidate in virginia. Liberal turnout was up 8 Percentage Points from four years ago, even though the candidate was more moderate than the candidate who ran four years ago. And that is something that is encouraging to democrats but that is not to say this say party united. That is also a question of whether they were mobilized against something or for something. Yeah, thats right. And you need to be, history tells you you need to be for something, you cant just be against something and win office. Charlie, i would point to one other group that was mobilized which is millenials, there is is always a question whether they vote, whether they vote in big numbers, whether they vote in mid terms or offyear elections at all there is a group called next gen america which call picked nine precincts to see what happened to turnout yesterday. And in all nine of those precincts, turnout was up over four years ago, the last Gubernatorial Election in virginia. And in most cases up a lot. In a couple of precincts in richmond around virginia commonwealth university, it was more than double four years ago. So there are some signs and this is good for democrats that millenials got energized and did show up. Ralph northam was not that kind of guy necessarily so this this is a two edged sword, millenials are progressives and will want a party that moves to the left more than others in the party will be comfortable with. Rose let me ask you about two people, donald trump, what does he do now . I think the president has to take a message away in this that he is not winning the future election, that his style of governing is going to generate more turnout in the blue states and not as much turnout in the red states. Its been said that blue is getting darker, blue and red is getting darker red. But there arent enough reds left demographicically to win his congress. He could become a loser. And hes got to emulate what he does abroad. Hes given his best speeches spn saudi arabia, poll land and yesterday in south korea. And if the president imports into the United States a little bit of what he exports abroad, he would be a lot better president and the party would be in a lot better position. No way not to read this election as all about the president. Rose no way what, say that again . No way to read the results of yesterday other than in virginia. Rose about the president. Other than a referendum on the president , yeah. Yeah. Rose go ahead. Before you say it, let me queet you for from a colume. You said trump has changed washington more than washington has changed him. You know, and this is not what we expect to happen with new president s, especially new president was a lot of experience. This president has not been reshaped by this town. But this town is a different place now than it was a year ago today when he won election. It is faster, it is louder, it is fiercer, the divisions are wider. He has had a huge affect but not to the extent that hes been able to deliver on the Campaign Promises he made. And you look at what happened yesterday. Democrats are encouraged that after being really spooked by Donald Trumps victory a year ago, they are increasingly convinced theyre going to be possibly able to win control of the house and donald trump does not know what trouble is like until one of the the house or the senate is under Opposition Party control that is a different landscape for him. When you look attacks reform, jerry, is it likely to pass . Is it going to be that close . What has to happen for it to pat . Whatever you want to call it, tax cuts, tax reform, whatever it is. Look, all prediks have been perilous for the last few years so i go there with great trep taition. But i think the imperative to do something on taxes is so high for republicans t was high before yesterday, its higher now as hugh was suggesting earlier. I think they will find a way to get something done. What that something is i dont know exactly 6789 it may look more like a plain vanilla tax cut than real tax reform it may not happen by the end of this year. It may spill over into early next year. But i do think that in the end they have to get something done on this and i think theyre on a path to accomplish something probably almost entirely on party lines. But at this tabling of the game that will be fine for republicans. And so if i had to put money on the line, and youre asking me to do that, i will say they will get something done. Rose hugh, will this result in a challenge to donald trump or was there going to be a challenge to donald trump in the primaries regardless . What a great question. Yes, i think john kasich will run against him one way or the other. But i also want to add this comes after three deadly hurricanes, fires that were deadly, after the las vegas massacre, after the new york terrorism act, after the Sutherland Springs massacre. I dont think we have ever had an election after two months of is he quengs disasters of this sort and after the con confrontation and collisions that susan described and the stakes that jerry laid out there. And so i really think the prediction business is a very dangerous thing to be in. The republicans have to pass this tax plan but as a former member of congress, jom campbell said to me and the confederacy had to quinn gettysburg, sometimes you lose what you have to win. Thank you, hugh, thank you, susan, thank you, jerry. Well be right back. Thanks, charlie. Rose stay with us. Donna brazile is here, she has worked on every president ial campaign from 1976 through 2000. She served as al gores campaign manager. Twice served as interim chair of the Democratic National committee. Her new book takes a critical look at the 2016 president ial campaign. Its called hacks the inside story of the breakins and breakdowns that put donald trump in the white house. Im pleased to have Donna Brazile back at this table. Welcome. Good to be back. Rose i dont know where to start. I want to come to the book in a moment but what is the state in your judgement of the Democratic Party today . You know, you cannot separate the state of the Democratic Party from the state of our democracy for two reasons. One, what we saw in 2016 was a disruptive political season. It was a season in which voters were taking a stand against the establishment in both 34reu9 kal parties. Inside the Democratic Party, of course, we had Bernie Sanders who was an outsider take on the democratic insider Hillary Clinton and likewise in the republican part you saw a donald trump take on many of the so called insiders. I think were at a point now in the Democratic Party, so much of the Republican Party where the party needs to sit down and figure out not just what are our core values, what are we saying to the american people, ho do we get rank and file democrats to get back on board. More importantly, we need to look ahead in terms of the 2018 midterm elections and the 2020 elections to ensure that we are adding new voices and fresh blood to the table. What happened. If you look at, you had barack obama for eight years. You had bill clinton for eight years. Yeah. You had george bush for eight years in between the two of them. But you have had democrats constantly losing state legislatures and state houses. Some people say well, gee, thats redistricting. But it evidently is something about the message. It is jerry mannedderring. It is also the republicans investing in down ballot races, not just focusing on the so called battleground states or the 18 states in district of columbia that lead to 270 electoral votes. The difference in my judgement is that the republicans spent money not just recruiting but training candidates at every level while on the democratic side. Rose they had a plan. They had a plan. The democrats, we have failed to move beyond what i call beltway politics where we focus all of our attention on winning back the house or the senate and winning the white house, but not focusing on winning legislative seats across the country. Rose so the Democratic National committee failed the Democratic Party. Well, look, howard dean had a 50 state strategy. Once president obama got into office, we dropped that, that was a huge mistake because we didnt have resources to go in states like mississippi and louisiana, just look what happened earlier this year when we had congressional candidates in george ga and kansas and south carolina, montana, they did very well. But over the last four years we probably put less than 30 or 40,000 dollars in those states. We put more in georgia because georgia became an expansion state. So i think the party has to, and tom perez is doing a good job, the parties. Rose chairman. The new chairman of the dnc, i believe the party has to invest in critical races down ballot races in the future. Rose how can barack obama be such a good politician and be so unsuccessful. Look, barack obama came up against the establishment too. He was an outsider. He was in the a democratic insider. Rose but when barack obama, in 2009 when he began governance. Right, i remember. Rose you should. He won by a huge majority. Thats correct. Rose he had defeated the clintons. That is correct. Rose showed some Political Savvy there. Thats right. Rose majority in the house and in the senate. And you are so you would assume therefore that this was a time to build, to spread out, to organize your message. Consolidate your game, and to come up. Rose why didnt he do that. He staged faced a terrific hit as the leader of the country and also as i, i believe, the leader of our Political Party because it wasnt just the policies and the obama agenda and obama coalition. I think the party after his viblght ree defied decided they wanted to go back to doing things the old ways. Result of that we started losing critical. Rose he was the leader of the party. I understand but he was investing and the team was investing in quote unquote version of the democratic grass roots that split the party, created a lot of divisions within the party but never the less he won reelection in 2012. Rose thats the point. Some will argue that what he did was, in fact, and also would be true with bill clinton i assume when george bush, when he was reelected. If you are running again, your primary focus is to get reelected. Absolutely. Rose if you dont get reelected nothing happens. And you assume that the more, the bigger your victory is the more democrats you will pull in. Thats correct. Rose so that is and if you are out there us using most modern political techniques, that should help you as well. Obama had all of that. But if you recall in 2014, because i was out there again helping my party, Many Democrats ran and they ran away from president obama. They told him not to campaign. Rose right. That was in 2014. So i think president o did obama faced a dilemma in helping the Democratic Party. He encouraged the party to take out loans to help the d triple c, the Democratic Congressional campaign committee, the democratic senator yal campaign committee, i dont want to sound like an inside the bellway person, but i am. He took out loans to help the party. Im guilty as charged. He took out loans to help the party, to rebuild the party, to restaff the party. But at the ind of the day, it left the party in a lot of debt. Rose heres my point about the book. This is a fascinating book, hacks, the inside story of the breakins and breakdowns that put donald trump in the white house. You have a couple of things here, in your appearance on my show with eye wonderful colleagues were trying to get you to confirm what you said in the book, gayle thought were you walking away from the book, nora was raising questions as to what, in fact, about the Democratic Party, and whether it you believe it was fair ortion. Not. The. Rose which is the question nora asked you. The primary is run and maintained by the state governments and the state parties. And i concluded when i told bernie i would figure out if the system was rigged, i concluded that, that i found no evidence that it was rigged. Although some people from bernies camp believed it was rigged. I also concluded that there was a cancer inside the party. Rose what is the cancer. The cancer was. Rose that is a question. The cancer was the joint fundraising agreement that had an addendum or a mem dumb that gave secretary clinton who by the way and i said it this morning, she bailed the party out. She helped to raise sufficient money to put the dnc back on what i call back on its course. Rose you said it made it more favorable to her. The cancer was taking away the power of a chaired party and the officers of the party. I was an. Rose giving pot we are to the person providing the money. Thank you, and harness it. I found that to be oddious. Rose the party needed money, its favored by giving power to secretary clinton, right . I mean is that a fair statement. It is a fair statement. Rose is that what you say if the book. Thats what i said in the book that i found that to be odd yution and that i wanted to get ready rid of the cancer but i could not kill the patient. The cancer made it an unfair primary election for Bernie Sanders, did you find the evidence. I found the cancer that i believe would have lead people to believe that the dnc bas tilting the scales to one candidate over the other. But i found no evidence of rigging. No evidence that dnc staffers rigged the california primary, or rigged the. Rose what does rig the primary mean to you. Rig is rig is a term that donald trump used. Rose sounds like a criminal term. It is a term that donald trump used. Rose yeah right. And because donald trump was saying the process is rigged. Let me tell you. Rose he also basically that said that in fact he wouldnt necessarily accept the judgement of the vote because it might be rigged. Thats correct. And so the word rigged came from donald trump. And what i said in the book was that i found no evidence of rigging. What i did find evidence was a cancer that. Rose but the cancer was something that gave more power to the clinton people than the Bernie Sanders people because they loaned them more. Well, they were able to get the dnc out of debt. And they put the dnc on in the book i describe it as a starvation diet. And i didnt like it. Rose yeah. So today, today, now go back to my first question. Rose okay. Is there a fun 2016 election. We have to unite and i think the place to start is with the Unity Commission that tom perez has put together. I was not able to put the Unity Commission, because i was an interim chair, ways not a perm nenlt chair and i wanted a permanent chair. This table includes people from the Sanders Campaign as well as the Clinton Campaign and theyre going to take a more forencic examination of what the party is doing. That is not one. Number two on the message side, i think the party has to come up with something that is clear, con cease and con compelling compel sog ordinary americans understand what the democratic part, when you say what does the republican stand for, lets just say the Republican Party before donald trump, we knew, you know, less government, you know, less taxes, et cetera. The Democratic Party. Rose defense pend spending. The Democratic Party has to get it down to opportunity, opportunity, opportunity, but we have to come up with a message that is compelling, concise, that. Rose primarily an economic message, isnt it . Its always going to be an economic message. The fairness message, a message about opportunity, about fairns, and leveling the Playing Field so every american regardless of your zip code has an opportunity to live out his or her life. Rose steve bannon said to me at an interview that anybody who plays politics rather than economic politics will lose. You would probably agree with limb. I agree with him to a person point but as a black woman who grew up in the segregated south, and my lifetime i have seen the doors of opportunity finally open. And it is my. Rose recognizing recrimination and realized we had to take the responsibility. Right. And also as a black woman growing up in the segregated deep south it took us until 1965 for people in my generation and my parents generation to have access to the ballot box. So identity politics is rooted in our history. But its not rooted in such a way that we we dont use it in a Democratic Party to divide. We use it to say that you are welcome. That you have a place at the table, that you are part of this american family. So i disagree with mr. Bannon in terms of is that the only message . No, we have i thought 4eu8ry had a good strong economic message but nobody heard it because everybody was talking about her damn emails. Rose that is what happened the whole email controversy preventedded her message about what she would do for the middle class and lower middle class. Every day i heard her message, on the conference calls, i heard it through the material that was being put out but you never heard it on tv. Rose there seems to be clearly, i mean once you wrote this back and all these things came out and we all were atwitter over the weekend in one way or another, because of things that you had said, and they therefore, the democrats who worked for Hillary Clinton john podesta and 70 or 80 others said she shes talking about a campaign we dont know. Well, right your own damn book. They were in a campaign, i didnt run the campaign. Rose they are saying you didnt know what her campaign was and the what you described is not their campaign. They should write their post more tell. Rose it is a post more tell. Let me just say this. 56 congressional campaigns, 19 state and local campaigns, 7 president ial campaigns, 49 states, i know campaigns. I may not know a lot about anything else, but i know campaigns. When you walk into a campaign and you are told that everything is under control, that madame chair, you dont have to worry. Rose is that what they said to you. Were going to win this. Yeah, a year ago, i was up here in new york saying that we have problems. Im already hearing from voters who are at the who are at the polls and their names have been taken off the list. Im hearing from voters in detroit that they still need yard signs because theyre trying to build up enthusiasm. And i would go to brooklyn, i would come up to brooklyn and say we need help. Rose the headquarters. I used to call it the high command of brooklyn because look i worked in nashville for al gore. I said we need help, we need money, we need resources, you know what they would tell me, dont worry, madame chair. Dont worry. And im like mi worrying. I am worrying. I worried every time i left washington d. C. To travel to florida, colorado, pennsylvania, i worried. I worried when i heard from my family all across the country that there are no yard signs. Rose you think they were too claysity and took it for granted. I think they believed they had it wrapped up. I think they looked at their computer models and said its fine. I come from the old school where i want to know, i want to know charlie rose and i want to talk to you, i want to hear from you. Rose you want to know where i will be on election day. Right, right, but also independents. I want to know, i want to hear from you. I dont want to look at some computer and determine that charlie rose is going to vote for me. I am old school, oldfashioned. I plead guilty. I want to say, will you vote for me. Will you support my campaign. Rose did you think she was going to win or did you think the outcome was in doubt. Or questionable. Or not necessarily wrapped up. Here is what i believe, when i left the set of abc that morning and got a phone call two hours later to become chair, i was excited about helping Hillary Clinton. Have i known Hillary Clinton for over 30 years. Rose you wanted to see. Wanted to see t i gave up everything. I gave up everything but teaching my students at gorgetown because i thought it was unfair to quit. But i gave up everything. I traveled, i cant tell you, i just traveled nonstop. I wanted her to win. The last thing i wanted and i said this in the book, the last thing i wanted was to see donald trump in the white house. I knew if hillary got into the white house, if she would take on the russians, clean up our democracy and have cleaner Political Party, i wanted her to win. Rose why did he win. They saw him as the outsider who would come to washington d. C. And remove the ey wanted the same type of leader that they saw in barack obama change. They saw him as a change agent. They saw her as part of the status quo, i also believe that the russian interterm play a role, it kept our primary going on. And. Rose do you believe it affected the outcome of the election. You know, that is still in doubt. Because the corruption, i also identify in the book that we didnt get the russians out of our system until october 21s. October 21s, they kept coming back. They kept. Rose hacking and hacking. They kept handling. They had a sophisticated military style cyberattack. Rose should president obama have been more aggressive and based on what he knew to say that the russians, we have evidence from the normal authority that i look to, the fbe and the cia and the National Security agency, we have evidence that the russians are trying to affect our democracy. He went to the congressional leadership. And it was my understanding that they told him not to tip the scales. I went. Rose Hillary Clinton believes he did not do enough, said so in her. Well, again, see shes right to say that. I believe that more should have been done to protect our democracy, and tern personally, as one who had to go to work every day with Death Threats to get up every morning knowing that i had to protect my staff, my colleagues, my friends. Rose Death Threats. Death threats. I mean people who who knows where these trolls and bots came from. You know. Rose you think they were internet threats. They were internet, they were personal, they were on my phone. They came every which way. And you know charlie, i worked on enough campaigns, i have been called a lot of things in my life. But i have to say to myself that doesnt sound like what americans say. And i didnt know at the time why many of us were targeted by some of the trolls and the bots. Now we know. They were on twitter, they were on facebook. They were paid with rubles and they created Fake Identities and then they came after us. And once you are email is out there i have been had by both the chinese and the russians. If there is one thing i want to leave with your viewers, i want to work hard so the north koreans, iranians or anyone else who hates america dont come after our country again. Rose ever think about what america, how america might have been different if al gore your candidate had been elected. I think about that a lot. I also think about what the country would be like today if hillary was in the white house. I still believe that i would be out there trying to clean up the Democratic Party, clean up what the mess that the hackers left. Rose you were the chair of the Democratic Party. Here is what i dont understand. You said some tough things about lots of people in this book. Of course. Rose you literally said barack obama and Hillary Clinton left the Democratic Party that was weak and in debt and weak and not in positions of leadership. Correct. Rose that is what you and you said that the Campaign Staff of Hillary Clinton was selfsatisfied and had a feeling of inevitability. They did. Rose that is not how you win. Look wz my point is koont couldnt you pick up the phone. Couldnt you donna brazil with all that you have done, and with the title of chair person of the Democratic National committee and say secretary clinton, ive got to talk to you. Let me tell you, the one thing i did was i screamed, i shouted, probably did a little cursing. And i found myself like talking to an empty room. Rose nobody would take your calls. Put it this way. The i was not running her campaign. And no matter how many times i complained and said people are not getting your hearing your message on the radio, et cetera, et cetera, the campaign kept telling me and this was the way they treated me, madame chair, its going to be okay. Rose patternistic. It was so condescending. I screamed every night, every day, you know what i finally did, i stopped moaning and wining, i went out and raised money, i tried to do my breast to help us. Rose you also said what was the word you used, pd. Im not patsy the slave. The reason why is because charlie. Rose did you say to them im not patsy the slave. On august 19th, if donald trump is in a black church in a black neighborhood saying what the hell do you have to lose. And here i am a black woman, i am someone who came up through a party that opened the doors for me to participate. And i am asking the campaign to give me the tools and the resources to counter what donald trump was staying, the you know the best i could do a colume in u. S. A. Today, because i didnt control the money. You know what it disp, i got so angry, i said fine, im going to raise my own money. And you wont control it i am going to respond to donald trump, that is the best i could do. Rose the book is called hacks the inside story of the breakins and breakdowns that put donald trump in the white house. Donna brazile, thank you. Always a pleasure, god bless, thank you. Rose back in a moment. Stay with us. Bruce dickinson here best known as the lead singer in one of the most successful heavy metal bands of all time. Iron madeen. Throughout their 40 plus year career the band has sold over 100 million albums. They are played more than 2,000 joes around d shows around the world. Their most recent tour took them to 39 countries across six continents. They traveled in a custom boeing 747 piloted by dickinson himself. Here is a look at iron madeen performing speed of light from their newest album the book of souls, live chapter. At the speed of light. We will not return. Rose dickinson solo career has spanned 15 years and six albums. He writes about everything from being a frontman to flying in his new book called what does this button do. Im pleased to have Bruce Dickinson at this table for the first time, welcome. Thank you very much. Rose nice to have you here. So many people i know thought if i could do one thing, if i could have one thing, i have had all this success and accomplishment and all this money. But i would have loved to have been a rock n roll star. Uhhuh. Rose and you have both. Yeah. Rose in factd, the Business Success may be, which came first. Oh, no, no, i was, the singing was iron madeen success and that was absolutely the first thing that happened to me. And it still the only going thing that is happening to me. Rose that is where the passion is. No, the passion is everywhere, i mean, i dont think things im not i dont do things im not passionate about. Obviously passion sometimes varies. You think i really dont want to get out of bed this morning. But thats just being a normal human being. I, the it says in the book what does this button do, my father always told me look, have a go at everything when are you a kid. Have a good at everything. You never know what is going to stick. And then the other thing that i got from him was finish what you start. And so were when i started on things did i feel really passionate about like flying little airplanes. I never had any idea, it wasnt an end game that i would be a cap pain of a 7474 747 if if you asked me i would go no, that is never going to happen. And the same thing when i started singing. I had no end game that i was going to be in one of the biggest rock n roll bands in the world age 59. What, are you kidding me. Thats not credible, you know, but just one thing happens after another. And suddenly you end up on lifes biggest roller coaster. Rose what is your definition of heavy metal . I havent got one. I have given up. Theres no point in even trying to define it. Its defined more by other people than its defined by me. Cuz when i started out listening to music, there was no such thing as heavy metal. It was a term coined by a journalist, actually. Metal came out of something called heavy rock. Heavy rock was simply an offshoot of blues rock, you know, lead zeplin and deep purple and things like that and free and all those bands. They werent heavy metal but they kind of came into heavy metal orbit. And then the whole world of music became polarized. It became very nich. Everybody was in there, put in their little sillos. And that was as much a fact of life because of the media. Because the media did that. And then Record Companies figured out that they could market it and yada yada and so on and so forth. But weve managed to survive and not just survive but to thrive in a sense outside that system. People called us heavy metal so yeah, fine, we are. Rose how have you been able to survive and prevail . Well, first of all, we dont, we dont ally ourselves to the media. We are not part of the cult of celebrity, for its own sake. Hopefully if we end up having any not ryity its because weve actually done something. As opposed to having you know Plastic Surgery or whatever. Rose or being famous for being famous. Exactly, turning up to the opening of an envelope. So we did what we say. We do it with integrity. We do a lot of touring. We tour fairly intensely. And we, i hope, do really good shows. And we engage as much as possible with our audience. Which is increasing. Because were years ago in the 80s we did one show in the new york area. Maybe two. We are now doing four. So were twice that size. And its a global band. So our nich has grown. I like to say our fans are like pliewood, you know. We grow a new laminate of them every generation. And they all stick to each other. Rose whats the size of the venues you do now . Anywhere from 10 to 80,000. Rose 150 to 80 so stadiums too. Yeah, yeah. We tend now, i think, out of preference, if we had a preference, i loved this most recent american tour because a lot ff was indoors. It just makes the show more effective. Outdoors its always a compromise with the lights and the sound and the, you know, whatever special effects you have. Indoors, you get much more impact with the show. And we are a very theatrical band. It is, as i have described in the book, when i started doing music, i was as curious mixture, because i started out doing theater. And doing acting. And then i discovered i could sing after deciding i didnt want to be a drummer. Rose you discovered could you sing because somebody listened to you and said boy, you can sing. Tharytd. And i went can i . And that person, that one little, i talk about it, it is a spark that just gives you that enthusiasm. And it can be one thing in your life in childhood that just flips a switch. And you think yes, i can. And i was really underconfident for a long time because being a singer, there is nowhere to hide, you know, you dont have a plank to hide behind that you can blame frk you play a wrong note, the guitarist they play a wrong note they look at the guitar and say how dare you, you did. The singer, people throw tomorrow national owes at you when you sing bum notes. So you have to have this confidence. But you just have a thicket skin. Rose what, tell me about this. That is the new live album. I only listen it myself, a couple of days ago. I was surprised how good it sounded. Rose you liked it. I really like it, actually. Its very good. I mean i will be honest with you, live albums for me, they are momentos for fans, honestly, that is the way i think about it. Weve done a weve done the bootleg work for you. And done it quite well. Because we record every show. So weve got access to hundreds of hours of tapes to put what should be the best performances together. Rose you consider yourself now more of a frontman or a solo artist. Or does it matter. Im the lead singer for iron 345den. I quitted the 3w57bd for five years. And i did that because i was having my little artistic dark night of the soul. And i was in l. A. Doing a solo album. And i realized i had no idea how to be creative outside of the framework of iron madeen. It derrified me. I think i am in an institution. And i will die in st institution if i dont do something about it. What can i do . And i, there is a quote from henry miller in the l. A. Times, and. Rose do you remember the quote. Yeah, its in the book but its Something Like all growth is an unpremeditated leap in the dark with effectively no idea of where you are going to land. Rose yeah. And i went god is right, every bit of my life thats ever produced anything of any worth has been that hanging on by your finger nails is going oh, i hope this works out. And show it dusker like its you throw a cat out of the window and it always ends the right side up. And i realized that i had to do that to figure out whether or not actually i belonged in the universe as a singer any more. And so i quit. And it was a little bit difficult, plaining it, you know, i have quit because of a newspaper clipping out of the l. A. Times. Cuz i got things like hes gone mad. And so i did, and i flailed around for a year or so not knowing what to do. And finally i came up with some pretty good stuff. I did six albums, and finally they asked me to rejoin the band. So at that point. Rose so that was an easy decision. It was yeah, it was relatively easy. I was with a band at the time who i loved. I adored these guys, they were from l. A. , they were from the valley. And we had done like three albums together. And we really had a bond, you know. And i had to sit them down and go look, guys, theyve asked me to rejoin iron madeen. I know whats going to happen. I will rejoin iron madeen and my feet arent going tow touch the floor and i will be busy busy busy busy. Were not going to be able to make any more music, in practical temples. What do you think . And the one the bass player said to me, man, you got to do it. I said yeah, but why do you say that . You know. Rose why do you say that. Selfinterest and that. He said no, man, you put iron madeen back together. The world needs iron madeen. And i went hey, this sounds like the blues brothers, we put the band back together. And i went you know what, youre right. Rose why do you think he would say that . Because he was a big iron madeen fan. And we, people underestimate what the band means to people. I mean were a band that really means something people come up to me and say this band changed my life. Or this band saved my life or things like that. And it really deep extraordinary experiences of people have had listening to the band. And its difficult to explain that to people who think that people only have those kind of experiences you know, listening to you2. We do have that affect on people. And its amazing, fantastic. Rose do you understand what it is . Not necessarily. Rose you know that is a affect but do you understand what it is. Not necessarily. Its because different songs speak to different people at different times, and individual ways. And you cant fathom it, we dont design the songs that way. Its like different songs speak to me in different ways at different times. You condition design it that way. When i was at boarding school there was an emerson lake and palmer song that always used to be playing. And i fement, i was beaten up, i was bullied, i felt really lonely. And i would hear that song for years afterward words and i would be right back with that set of feelings. Songs really have a massive po ber to approximate recall emotions and really powerful moments in your life. Rose did you ever imagine that you would be a rock n roll star when you approached your 60th birthday. No, no. Rose thats incredible, isnt it. I never imagined that i would be a rock n roll star period. And you know, i was thinking as far away as maybe a 3,000 seat theater would be like oh my god, you know. And i was a kid underneath the bed sheets with the torch and i would be drawing little fantasy stage sets in the bio in the exercise book when i was 16. Then i got into iron madeen. And as i said, the worlds biggest roller coaster, except the roller coaster never got to the bottom. Rose why the title what does this button do. Funny you should say that. The book is being released ih germany. The german publishers had a real problem with the title. They said we dont like the title. What is wrong with t they we dont understand it. What dont you understand, what does this button do lets press the button and see what happens. He goes yeah, you dont do that in germany, you only push the button if you know what it does. I went i think we have we need to talk, you know. So. Rose did you change the title for. No, no, no. We said the book is being to be called what does it button do in english and then underneath you can put biography, whatever, that is what we have gone with t i think it is a bit of nonsense that they dont understand that concept. But it is very much have a go at everything, what does this button dond and a little bit of miss chief about it as well. Rose mystery and miss chief. Dont push the et are button, every child on the planet is immediately going to push the red button. Rose did you like this writing . I did enjoy writing it, actually and i strangely enough did write it, in is not a ghost writer. Rose i was told there is no as told to. No, i handwrote it on seven, pailt passed, handwritten script, a punt and peck typier, cant stand spelling mistakes, they really upset me so there would be loads of them if i typed it an forever stopping and interrupting the flow. So i did 160,000 words, we took 40,000 out, otherwise the book would have been a door step, not a book. And its me. That is it. We i tried to cover all the bases from getting rid of you know, throat cancer at the end of the it. That was a good stopping point. In other words, the starting point the rest of my life. And. Rose total remission. Area, the words on the scan was total clinical response. And i said to the oncology cologist, i went thats its gone. He say yeah, its gone like its gone. Yeah, gone, gone, gone. And i went wow. Rose thats good. Thats good. Rose best words you ever heard in your life. You dont sort of its very hard to encompass it. You almost get survivors guilt because you have been living with, youve been living and working with this thing, this part of you that has gone slightly awol. I treated it in the book i describe it as i treated it as an uninvited guest. I had a couple of bounces, mr. Chemo and mr. Radio and they were going to escort it guest from my body in the nicest possible way, youre leaving, buddy and youre not coming back. Rose and good for you. And luckily touch wood that that has been the case. Rose the book is called what does this button do, Bruce Dickinson an auto biography as well as iron madeen, live album. Thank you. Cheer, thank you very much. Rose pleasure. Thank you for joining us. See you next time for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs. Org and charlie rose. Com. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Youre watchin pati narrates people always talk about the beauty of the state of oaxaca. If youre lucky enough to come to oaxaca, chances are youll end up right here in the colonial city staring up at her beautiful cathedral. But youll probably never make it here. Ive been to oaxaca many times, but la mixteca region is a mystery to me. Im here to meet with one of oaxacas most incredible chefs to experience roadless travel, and to get a taste of mixtecas unique cuisine. The spiciness of the chorizo together with the chocolate is incredible. Pati narrates in my kitchen, im turning that experience into delicious Family Friendly recipes. Corn soup with queso. And a delightful pescado agridulce