Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

Literally, perish the thought, but there is no trump the leader of the republican party, who is busy, as you just heard, endorsing candidates for House Speaker after the congressional wing of the republican conference that is in thrall to him through Kevin Mccarthy out, then there is defendant trump, whose last week has been going a little differently than party leader trump. The first guy, the trump who is the leader the publican party, apparently wants Ohio Republican congressman jim jordan to leave lead the House Of Representatives. After floating the possibility that donald trump himself could become the speaker, donald trump wrote on his Social Media Platform of jim jordan, quote, he will be a great speaker of the house, and has my complete and total indoor cement. Usually dont trump doesnt believe himself sometimes, which is why he does just endorsed someone. He says they have complete and utter endorsement. Jim jordan is one of two House Republicans running actively to replace the ousted speaker Kevin Mccarthy. He is a fierce trump loyalist in a chamber full of republicans who are willing to do the bidding of a criminally indicted former president. Jim jordan is currently leading the effort to impeach Donald Trumps likely opponent in 2024, President Biden. Making him a Material Witness in three days before trump support. Jim jordan said this. The ultimate day of significance is january 6th. This is how the process works. The ultimate arbiter here, the ultimate check and balance, is the United States congress, and when something is done in an unconstitutional fashion, which happen in several of the states, we had a duty to step forward and have this debate and have this vote on the 6th of january. Thats not exactly how it turned up. Here is what the Ranking Member of the january Six Committee, liz cheney, said about jim jordans role on january 6th. Jim jordan, if you think about the extent to which people have now said, well, it was speaker pelosis fault that Donald Trumps not invaded the capital, the security wasnt sufficient enough. The person who knew, there are probably more than just jim, but there are a handful of people of which he was the leader, who knew what donald trump had planned. Now somebody needs to ask jim jordan, why didnt you report to the Capitol Police what you knew donald trump had planned . You are in those meetings at the white house. According to the former republican speaker of the house and Fellow Ohioan john boehner, jim jordan is a political terrorist. You call some of these members political terrorists. Oh, yeah. Jim jordan especially. My colleague from ohio. [laughter] i just never saw a guy who spent more time tearing things apart never building anything. Never putting anything together. So can and should apolitical terrorist lead the House Of Representatives . Can and should someone who has failed to comply with congressional subpoena from the jerry Six Committee leave the House Of Representatives . Every publicans and washington shoes jim jordan as their speaker, they would, in fact, once again, prove themselves to be the antidemocracy party, which is exactly what party leader trump wants. Listen to more about what liz cheney said earlier this week. And if the republicans decide jim jordan should be the speaker of the house, there were no longer be any possible way to argue that a group of elected republicans could be counted on to defend the constitution. Now, republicans could be making that choice next week white house scheduled return from recess. So lets take a look at this guy here, defendant trump. Today the Appellate Division of the new York Supreme Court rejected his request for a stay in new York Attorney general Letitia Jamess civil fraud trial. The court, however, did agree to temporarily pause the cancellation of his Business Certificates. The decision effectively halts what trumps attorneys described is a, quote, corporate death sentence, while the trial continues. In court today jeffrey mcconney, the controller for the Trump Organization, testified about how he was instructed by eric trump to include the value of seven nonexistent mansions when calculating the value of trump s Seven Springs property in westchester, new york. In a dramatic moment at the end of these proceedings, mcconney also testified that this man, a long Trump Organization cfo, allan weisselberg, asked him to help carry out tax fraud. Mcconney told the court he agreed to help out weisselberg because he was afraid he would lose his job if he didnt. When the court resumes on tuesday, Allen Weisselberg will take the stand, and special counsel jack smiths 2020 elections case against donald trump. Judge Tanya Chung Chutkan and granted extension to grand prix Trial Motions to the case in the slightly longer extension to file evidentiary motions in the case. And in the maralago documents case, this woman, judge Aileen Cannon, as effectively paused all activity in the case while she considers a request from trump for a threemonth extension on the deadlines for filings relating to the handling of the classified material that is at the center of that case. Defendant trumps attorneys have asked for a threemonth extension to review the voluminous amount of classified material in the case, and were gonna see if Donald Trumps favorite judge, as he calls, her gives him that extension. A lot to get to here. Joining us now is democratic congressman Eric Swalwell of california, he was an Impeachment Manager in the second Impeachment Trial of president donald trump, hes a plaintive in the civil suit against donald trump for his role in inciting the january 6th attack on the capitol. Also with us, normal in, steelmakers scholar at the institute, enjoys fans, professor at the university of alabama, school of law. She is an msnbc legal analyst. Thanks to all three of you for being here tonight. A lot to get to. Congressman swalwell, well get to you first because a lot of what is happening is happening in congress, and a lot of what is happening in congress is highly influenced by donald trump. He is, for all intents and purposes, the leader of the chaos agents who got rid of Kevin Mccarthy are now about to someone new next week. Tell me where your thinking is on this. Congress right now, run by republicans, is a law firm. It insurrection ella lp. It has just one client, and a client is donald trump. At the expense of bringing down the cost of gas and groceries, bringing down the cost of health care, bringing down the Student Loan Burden that millions of americans have, they fight every day for this guy. And now they have a vacancy in the speaker position, and he is going to call the shots. The reason he likes jim jordan s because jim jordan leads that law firm. Jim jordan would be a lawless speaker. He has 500 days plus into defying his own congressional subpoena for what he saw on january 6th. So of course donald trump wants that. A look at my republican colleagues, ali, and i see crabs in a bucket. These guys are just trying to pull us all in to the chaos that they all crave, and democrats continue to show unity, unity to lift the debt ceiling, to keep the government open, to make sure we keep ukraine in the fight, and were going to stay united, all the way through, because were working for working people, and we will let them continue to be chaotic, and we will get the keys to Government Back in 13 months. Joyce, the reason this conversation is important in the context in which were having right now, is that donald trump has had a pretty good week as far as congress goes. He, his influence has proved disproportionate to his influence elsewhere. Not working as well for him on the legal front. He is team his claimed a remarkable victory in new york with the staying of the dissolution of his company, but thats not really the full story. Its not, and i guess if by claiming a great victory you mean what was entirely predictable happening, and then while this is a great victory. But it was always in the cards that there would be a stay in the revocation of the Business Certificates and the dissolution of Trump Organization until the case was over and there could be a full appellate process. One of the ways that we knew that this was in the offing, in that the judge in the trials, said it was in the, offing was that yesterday with very little fanfare he uploaded our order that prohibited the trump defendant from moving around or dissolving or transferring any of their corporate assets without getting advance permission from the court and from the special Monitor Of Retired federal judge, who has been appointed to oversee things. So this was always in the ordinary course of business, and not much of a victory. Congressman, i want to ask you about something that hook keen jeffries the minority leader has said in an oped in the washington post. He said the rules of the house should reflect the inescapable reality that republicans are lighted emigrated support to do the basic worth of governing. A small band of extremists should not be capable of obstructing that cooperation, reform the highly partisan house rules that were adopted at the beginning of this congress, and join us in finding Common Ground for the people. Now thats not all that revolutionary. Many democracies in the world generally speaking parliamentary democracies have a system like this, where youve got to make a deal with folks on the other side. You keep a few things off the trade would be unpalatable for them. You move forward with a few things. Tell me about the complexity or possibility of what Hakeem Jeffries was talking about. What i read in the oped is what i see from jeffries every day when he leads the caucus which is hey guys, where the coalition of the willing, the working, theyre doing, if you want to put down your k offs and come join team competence, well do that with you. So we stand ready because Government Funding is going to run out in about 38 days, and so troops and cops, border agents, air traffic controllers, theyre all going to see their paychecks at risk. And so again, we just stand ready, united. Right now, i talk to my constituents, they dont give a rip about team blue versus team red. They just want to know, are you good to have give me Breathing Room so that my paycheck goes farther. If you shut down the government, that doesnt happen. If ukraines not in the fight, we could be drawn into this conflict. And so we stand ready to be Coalition Partners for getting things done. Joyce vance, lets ask about Aileen Cannon and florida. This has been an issue in the maralago discussions since the beginning. Then trumps team have said that they need, i dont know, im making it, up but two years to go through all the documentation. There was an argument that the prosecutors have made that says, actually, you had all these documents. A number of them are in contention and will be able to manage this but youre gonna have to do in a secure location, and once again, because of, that they wanted more time. Where are we in that case with respect to needing more time . Its possible that there is a legitimate argument here that they need some more time. The government has said that substantially all discovery will be turned over by today. But there are issues involved in locations where classified documents can be viewed. And i might be possible that they need, maybe, an extra few weeks to get that done. There are lawyers for a defendant in a criminal case and they have obligations to do things in an appropriate timeline. The problem that i see here, though, is that the judge has had a willingness to shut the entire thing down to give them extra time to sort these issues out. And if she grants trump this additional three months that hes asking for right now, thats not necessarily the end of it. They could look at discovery and come back and say judge, we need more time. And that becomes a neverending game. They have already asked that the trial date be moved until after the election. I think thats a harbinger of where we are headed with. This i was going to, say that seems to be where all of this is headed. Congressman swalwell, you talked about the fact that theres another schedule shut down for November 17th if we dont get out of the mess that we are in, the catharine. But Something Else donald trump posted about this week, first he suggested that there should be, no one should be elected speaker unless they agreed to not fund ukraine any further. Then he sort of amended that little bit and said that unless we fund ukraine and exactly the same level europes funding ukraine, i dont really understand what he means by that, because america has taken quite a lead in funding in ukraine. But the bottom line, is he saying the quiet part out loud. For all those people who have always wondered about donald trump and his propensity to defend Vladimir Putin in a illegal war, hes coming out in telling republicans. The thing that used to be completely bipartisan, support for ukraine against an adversary, is not necessarily so. What is so maddening is that for my republican clogs, colleagues, i was raised by two republicans, he would never see on television on this channel, theyd have to go somewhere else to see, me is that we would win the cold war and we did. And so now the republican mantra is, okay, trump likes putin, putin likes, trump so that means we have to like putin. But im telling you, right now china is watching, and you cannot be soft on russia and tough on china. And so there is no reason the taiwans should believe that we would be behind them and have their back if were gonna walk away from ukraine. If you walk away from ukraine, youre gonna see europe also walk away from ukraine, and europe is also going to have no interest in helping us at this and he will in america to defend taiwan. So this is all connected. Its our freedom and our values, but its also our work. In so far republicans who want to do this and go all in with donald trump, im not going to believe you any longer when you tell me that youre tough on china. Thanks to both of you for joining us, and thanks, i think we had a technical problem with norm, but there will be more opportunities to chat with norm. Eric swalwell and joyce vance, thank you. Still ahead, Banned Books Week here in america. We know banning books is a growing problem. New reporting shows that theres been a 33 increase in the number of banned books in schools compared to this time last year. Lavar burton is joining me tonight to tell us why we should all be fighting the banning of books, and better yet, reading the very books that they would have your void. But up next, a sinister an overlooked story out of franklin, tennessee. Nearly a dozen White Supremacists turned up at a farm for mayoral candidates. They escorted one of those maga candidates, gabriel hansen, and her husband, into the event. And no surprise, Gabrielle Hanson did not condemn the White Supremacists. Stay with us. Full story, next. I have moderate to severe crohns disease. Now, theres skyrizi. Things are looking up ive got Symptom Relief Control of my crohns means everything to me. Control is everything to me. Feel significant Symptom Relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer Bowel Movements at 4 weeks. Skyrizi is the first and only il23 inhibitor for crohns that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. 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And set yourself and your future self up with an aarp Medicare Supplement plan from unitedhealthcare. the new stuffed quesadillas. Only at El Pollo Loco while National Headlines the new summer family meal. Starting at 24. Only at El Pollo Loco. About political dysfunction in tennessee are focused on the states republicans, removing two black lawmakers in april, justin jones, and justin j. Pearson, both of whom later won those seats back, a smaller and even more bizarre story has largely flown under the radar, and this week that story went from bizarre to sinister. This is all happening in franklin, tennessee, the county seat of williamson county, just south of nashville. Its on to some of the nationals nicest neighborhoods. And this is Gabrielle Hanson, an alderman in franklin, tennessee, running for mayor against the incumbent mayor, and theyre both republicans. The election is later this month, october 24th. Early voting is already happening. We Gabrielle Hanson is a maga loving candidate who has found herself in controversy after controversy, largely thanks to one dog journalist, a veteran investigative reporter, Phil Williams. Gabrielle hanson supporters havent taken kindly to that, and late last month, local police were forced to get involved when her supporters tried to block Phil Williams from getting inside to cover a Candidates Forum or. Another forum this week, and this time phil didnt find her supporters at her door. He found some members of a local White Supremacist Group called the Tennessee Active Club. Heres a portion of his report from wtva effort ev. Someone said you were here making us think that i dont know what that statement is. I dont know that statement. We are here for Gabrielle Hanson. White supremacists protecting their candidate, who has made fading lgbtq pride events a focus of our campaign for mayor. Some were not too eager for their identities to be known. Just making sure everything goes. Well okay. Are you concerned about things not going well . Its a possibility, and were just here to protect Gabrielle Hanson. You heard protector. Yes. I hear you all here for Gabrielle Hanson . So whats the purpose. Were just here to show for some support, that. All kaufman, whos been described as a strong staunch antisemitism, described is a staunch neonazi and holocaust denier, and a massive catch of iron arms. Shes a friend of mine and shes had some incredible threats. So well just posted up out here. Then theres brad luis, the operator of the luis Country Store on the Far West Side of nashville and its a store known for its extreme right wing messaging. And so easily went on the mark, it Gabrielle Hanson was the Real Estate Agent who got the listing. A recent investigation from the Southern Poverty Law Center reveal how the second floor of the store was used as a White Nationalist fight club. Luis responded in a postal tell telegram calling himself an actual literal not see. Hanson and a hired security guy, were doing a show on kaufman, the 90 figure who apparently heads the Tennessee Active Club, which made us wonder, why would she be associating with such figures . Miss hanson, the people you have described that you associate yourself this have described themselves as liberal not. Season either gonna be pleased bisson cnn with . Literal not sees . Anytime that you dont she is here with people who describe themselves as not sees. Is that an appropriate for someone who wants to be the mayor of franklin . Those are questions of supporters that they didnt want us asking. After the appearance of literal not seased White Supremacists at mondays forearm, franklins board of mayor and ultimately Statement Denouncing what happened. They also stated that the board will not tolerate any form of hatred, intimidation, or violence directed at our residence, meeting representatives, or anyone else attending or participating in the democratic process. And quote. Every member of the boards signed on to that statement, except, yeah, you guessed it. Statement with the names of the current Franklin Word including the incumbent canmore. Gabrielle hanson wasnt listed. What did do instead . She put a statement on social media say she didnt hire the literal not sees and White Supremacists. Hire them . No one had some suggested that she hired them until she did. So thats odd. She also said, quote, furthermore, i want street categorically that i am not nor have i ever been associated with any White Supremacy or not the affiliated group. End quote. To demonstrate that shes not categorically associated with any nasty affiliated group, a few hours later she shows social media posts from the not see affiliated White Supremacy group the Tennessee Active Club, which is at the center of this controversy. The posts falsely linked her opponent to antifa and cryptically states, quote, remember, there is no political solution, end quote. This is happening right here right now in tennessee. People are already voting and Gabrielle Hansons name is on that ballot. Joining us now, the chair of the tennessee democratic party. Sir, thank you for joining us. Im glad to have you here tonight. I have to say, theres so much in the story that i knew nothing about, including What A Fight Active Club is. I know in the fight club is from the movie. Somebody told me to join an active club i would think it would be a place where you get fit. This is apparently a euphemism for these white supremacist neonazi groupings. Yes, and its not just here in tennessee, valley, its all across the nation. These groups have found a way to perpetuate violence and to double down and to train on how to be violent and dangerous extremists. These Domestic Terrorist Groups will stop at nothing to ensure that they can continue to intimidate and harass and threaten society. So i think this is a dangerous precedent that we are seeing, and these active clubs, whether in intensity or anywhere else in the nation, i think people have got to pay more attention to them, and weve got to start doing what Phil Williams has done, highlighting when they are a danger to our communities. And i think we should. Lets start. Now lets read from the Southern Poverty Law Center, an article from june 2023 by jeff to shower, where he is talking about these active clubs. He said active clubs train in Mixed Martial Arts to fight against what they perceive is an anti white system. The Group Celebrates violence and hyper masculinity, arguing the physical strength will position them to stand up to the forces they believe weaken america and european nations, including islamic, judaism, and racial diversity. End quote. I guess this is relevant because there was a ku klux klan in this country. There were people who actually, on a regular organized basis, used violence to stand up for what they thought was either the dilution or affect negatively on them as white people. I think some americans would be surprised to believe that this similar type of organization exists today. Yes, and youve got to, thing right here in tennessee, where the ku klux klan has called home for a very long time, to see organizations like this Tennessee Active Club rising out of the deaths of this desperate maga candidate, who is still very viola bull viable every stone in franklin, its very disturbing. Let me ask you about, and im gonna read for my colleague, nick ramsey, wrote about this, in talking about how this is a national problem, and how you solve it. Because the active club, it said, there is no political solution to this. The implication i would supposes this violent solution to this. From next article, at the end of last, month hansens colleagues on the franklin board inexplicably failed to censure her for some of her past incendiary remarks. According to the tennessee, and one official said, with tears in her eyes, the voters should speak. Now, this is not a, it shouldnt be a democratic or republican issue. They shouldnt be a partisan issue. I would think that folks who understand that in the neighborhood of these neonazi organizations. That should be a universal. We dont want to part of that is our community. Right. And we are seeing, fortunately receiving some republicans to step up to the plate to denounce this and a senator in tennessee, republican senator in tennessee, has denounced the mayor who is a republican, the audubon who are overwhelmingly republican, theyve stepped up to say theres no place in our community for this type of hatred and division. Everyone except for miss hanson has denounced this group, so we have to ask is she okay with this violent extremism . These domestic terrorists, being a figure within our communities . Because if you heard phils clip, those people said they were there to protect her, and that just goes back to what theyre saying. Theres no political solution. They are ready to use violence if necessary. Feels like we saw on january 6th, right . These folks who have these kind of use deciding that their job to protect politicians who will support them. Hendrell, good to see you again. Thank you for making us a little smarter about. This Hendrell Remus is chair of the tennessee democratic party. You can read more on that story in a column i mentioned from msnbc daily, just head to msnbc. Com. Nick ramsey author of. That coming up, levar burton wants you to read banned books, and he knows that book bans have reits record highs across america. He joins us next to tell us how we can resist these efforts. 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[applause] Vice President Kamala Harris showed this message on social media during Banned Books Week, an event created part by the American Library association is more relevant than ever now as Public Schools and libraries across the country face more and more book bans. Over 3000 books were banned in the past year, a 33 increase from the previous year, and nearly 4000 books have been challenged in libraries so far this year. That is pronounced predominantly republican led states were officials like Florida Governor ron desantis in Texas Governor greg abbott have pushed legislation to ban more books and make it easier for individuals to bring challenges to have books removed. Tomorrows let freedom read day. Our next guest is levar burton, an actor to many, but to so many people before we do infirmity of his role shes played, he taught us about the wonder of reading, hosting a long time pbs eries, reading rainbow. That wasnt just a job for him. It was a passion project, and he remains a Literacy Advocate who this year is the honorary chair for Banned Books Week. You want all of us to join in on reading banned books. The freedom to read is under attack. Lets do something about it, joey . October 7th is let freedom read day. Take at least one action to defend books from censorship and stand up for library staff, educators, writers, publishers, booksellers, and readers. No one Person Organization can fight censorship alone. We all need to take action. Joining us, now the anchor levar burton, this years honorary chair for Banned Books Week. Hes also former host of the previous show, reading rainbow. Great to have you here. What an important discussion and i know youve had a few times this week with some of my colleagues here at msnbc but i dont think theres enough of this conversation we can have. I would never have guessed that in 2020 this would be the thing that were. Fighting banning books, the way they have done in dictatorial regimes in the past, the way they did in germany, and world war ii, we are fighting that in america. You know, when i first read Fahrenheit 451 in high school, i thought wow, What A Dystopian Wildes idea, that this is, and here we are now, living in that very reality. You are an oh gee in this fight. You get it. You understand how important the written word and relationship with literature, storytelling is to the human being. Literacy is an incubator for empathy. Absent an exposure to a wide variety of literature, you grow up in in an echo chamber. In a very narrow silo of information and experience. And so, as i say, you get it. You are a soldier on the frontlines. The thing about this, though, it is the point you make, we can all be soldiers in this. This is the one thing that we all have a voice. In part of that is the vote. We talk about that all the time. But this particular case, its going to your school meetings, talking with your School Librarians and your principles and the teachers, supporting them, voting, attending your school board meetings, voting in them, running in them. This is the one opportunity. Were not asking people to run for president here. Were talking about the fact that this battle is going on in our neighborhoods. In our neighborhoods is right. And so people ask, what can i do to support the effort . You just broke it down. And i think of all of the things that we can do, reading banned books is the easiest. Its the lowest Hanging Fruit, buying banned books for your friends, christmas presents, birthday, hanukkah, but going into the school board meetings, showing up, being present, seeing what kinds of conversations are going. On most of these challenges and these bands have been instituted by a small number of people, and in one case, the woman that was author of the band hadnt even read the book. It was the hill we climb by amanda gorman, and we know she didnt read the book because she attested the writer as oprah winfrey. Oprah wrote the forward. The woman was trying to get the book removed from schools and she hadnt even read it. So this is what we are up against. You had a conversation with joy reid the other night where you brought up the subject of empathy. If you have are with people who have different experience than you had growing up, whether gender, culture, ethnicity, you may develop empathy. When the points you made, though, is that the people who want to prevent you from developing that empathy are people who do not want their world shaken. They dont want people roaming around with an understanding of all of these other people because that affects their worldview. On one hand i want to emphasize with those people in say i get itites its gonna rock your world to read about by a queer black, i but there are queer black ice in the world around us, and maybe we should understand their experience as well. I really believe that, this is all being motivated by a sense of fear, a panic thats going on, in a certain sector of the population that sees that the world is changing. Before their eyes. And are desperately trying to fight that change. But the tide has already changed. Its too late to go backwards, but thats where they want to drag us. They want to drag us back to the past. And my money is on the humans who have good common sense. We should not be banning books in america in 2023. Its just, it is abysmally ignorant to not want, to have the richness of lifes experience and literature as part of our lives. Was a conversation about being woke today, and i dont understand people who dont want to be awake. I failed to understand. It in any case, this is who we are, right and here we are at the end of Banned Books Week, 2023 and tomorrow is let freedom read day, which is it a statement that this is part of our human heritage. So let freedom read, riffing on let freedom ring, read the banned books, please, yall. I like to say thats where the good stuff is. So i, in a book club, as you know, we are unofficial motto is reading as resistance, which is appointed the are making as well. That is the lowest Hanging Fruit you can use to fight back against us. Lets take a quick break so we can pay some bills. On the inside i want to talk to you about just reading as resistance to these oppressive measures. Well be right back with levar burton. Motto is reading as resistance, which is appointed the are making as well. That is the lowest Hanging Fruit you can use to fight back against us. Lets take a quick break so we can pay some bills. On the inside i want to talk to you about just reading as resistance to these oppressive measures. Well be right back with levar burton. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened Immune Systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. I chose arexvy. Rsv . Make it arexvy. We really dont want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. Good, real food is simple. It looks like food, it smells like food, its what dogs are supposed to be eating. No living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. Its amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. The farmers dog is just our way to help people take care of them. Hi. Id like to tell you about a Cashew Farmer from mozambique named carlos. Carlos used to struggle to provide enough food and education for his family. But then everything changed. Technoserve helps farmers like carlos lift themselves out of poverty by building skills, connections and confidence. Today, carlos and his family are thriving. And so are his cashews. Go to technoserve. Org and donate today. Its a different way to make a difference. Levar burton is back with us to keep a discussion on Banned Books Week going, and on banned books. In general levar, while theres an emphasis on gender issues and lgbtq stuff in book banning, it has really been the same things in the history of books. It has either been the words that are used themselves about which people are brutish or sensitive, the ideas, which i think are most threatening, or the people who are writing these books. And all three are relevant right now. You look at the bans against the 1619 project, nikole hannahjones, its ideas people dont want to hear, but in some cases, there are lists across this country of banned books that are just based on the author as a person of color. Nothing to do with anything other than that. What is your sense of why books are being banned, and knowing what the best way is to fight it . Well, as i said, i really do believe that it comes from this panic, this sense of fear that the world that they believed was fashioned in their image is slipping away from them. And thats where all of this retrenchment is coming from. And you know, as you said before the break, resistance is reading. Reading is resistance in this case. And we all have a stake in this fight. And we are all soldiers in this war because, and its interesting to, me what we are looking at, is it is iron to control other people. Its fine, i believe that every parent has a right to have a say in whether children read and what they watch and what they consume. But what you dont have is the right to impose your feelings and your fears on other peoples kids. Right. And there is an absolute, i mean you notice that these two issues, banned books and the autonomy that women should have over their bodies, these are conversations that are currently going on in this country right now, and they stem from that same urge to want to control that which you feel is out of control. In fact, Margaret Atwood is a fantastic example of this, because your book is about the controlling of women in their bodies and reproductive rights, and was written in 1985, one of the most band and challenged books around. But she writes about exactly this. Theyre banning a book that warns you about the society that not only could you be in but you might be in right now, so this is that concept of ideas. Nothing about Margaret Atwood, ive met her, shes the least offensive person you could meet. You should read her words, hers and tony morrison. The words are beautiful, but the ideas therein are threatening. Especially when they hit close to home, when it looks, like were in a country where we are actually controlling womens reproductive rights, so lets not get into Reading Books about. It right. And when it comes to our kids, this conversation has been positive as, they are protecting children by Initiating Lease Bands and challenging these books. And i dont believe that to be true at all. I think its very disingenuous to say that, because they are not concerned about protecting children. And i dont want to be the parent whose child finds out that they have been hiding the truth from them for all of these years and they spend so much time, effort, and energy trying to hide the truth and not show them the world as it is. Or even as it could. Be the one interesting turn here is the bookstores everywhere i go have banned book sections. People go and seek out these books, as you have recommended that they do. Every time i have a Band Book Author on the show, their sales increase. I dont think anybody looking to get their book band, but i think the reverse is happening. I think it is activating people. Its making people want to read as resistance. Its making people want to stand up for their librarians and their teachers at school, and its making people say hey, you want to van dam . I will read it. 80 of the country, it was under the people in the country are against these bands and find them to be patently ridiculous, which of course they are. And so that tells us something. Again, its a minority. Its a small number of people who are really trying to exercise some misguided effort of control over the rest of us and our minds and our bodies. Levar burton, an honor to speak to you, thank you for everything youve done in the past to make us all the readers we have become. Levar burton. Thank you, ali, thank you very much. Our friends at pen america, an on profit dedicated to the freedom to read have partnered with 24 others to fight but banning in florida is, in the heart of it, all in tomorrow for a Velshi Banned Book Club segment, were gonna have to our authors, the best bestselling michael connelly, and david bell, both talking to discuss their part in the dangers of limiting students access to literature. That sam eastern right here on msnbc. Also in the Velshi Banned Book Club podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tonights last word is next. One role of a lifetime. One sore throat. But she had enough. She took Mucinex Instasoothe sore throat lozenges. Show your sore throat whos boss. Mucinex instasoothe. Works in seconds. Lasts for hours. 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Woo hoo ensure max protein 30 grams protein, one gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients for immune health. before we go, a special programming note, a new msnbc films, Marthas Vineyard versus desantis, tells the story of migrants flown to the new england island, community that took them in and how republican politicians cruelty was crushed with kindness by the people of Marthas Vineyard. You can watch Marthas Vineyard versus desantis, right here on msnbc. When nothing as we close out Banned Books Week, find all four indictments against donald trump edited and introduced by me, the trump indictments, the 91 counts against the former president that in states, is available now and not banned yet. My new book, small acts of courage, legacy of endurance in the fight for democracy, i dont history of my own family escaping apartheid, integrated kenya, where i was born, and then leaving for canada and finally the United States. It will be published in may, but you can pre order it now. Thats tonights last. Where the 11th were hour with Stephanie Ruhle begins, right now. Tonight, the new jobs reports matching expectations, President Biden touting his administrations wins, and meanwhile it is day five of the former president s fraud trial. The developments from court today, and a chaotic week on capitol hill, ending with no speaker of the house. The Reality Check from senators as House Republicans scramble to find leadership. Then, coming through the noise, an important conversation about transgender youth athletes, with a panel of experts. You are not gonna want to miss this. As the 11th hour gets underway on this friday night. Good evening once again. Im Stephanie Ruhle. We usually do the nightcap on a friday, but we have got so much big news that we have got to break down, and later we