Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Tonight the world is still coming to grips with the devastation in the wake of the worst mass murder of jewish people since the holocaust. Today three days after hamas fighters launched a devastating surprise attack, the Israeli Government announced it had finally taken back control of its border with gaza, the area were hamas broke through a security barrier, often referred to as the iron wall. Israeli Officials Say they have discovered the bodies of about 1500 hamas militants inside the country. Over the course of the day, military forces say they continued to find in kill isolated hamas gunman. The death toll in israel continues to rise, to now over 1000 people. The vast majority of whom were civilians. We are learning more horrific details from the small communities in southern israel, along the border there where men, women, in children were slaughtered in their homes. In one kibbutz, 100 bodies have been found. In another nearby, an Army Major General described the scene as a massacre. Its not a war. Its not a battlefield. You see the babies, the mother, the fathers, in their bedrooms, in their protection rooms, and how the terrorists kill them. Its not a war. Its not a battlefield. Its a massacre. Its a terror activity. So you can look at it yourself, its something that i never saw in my life. It is something that we use to imagine as our grandfather, grandmother, in the pogrom in europe in other places. A couple whose arrive survived at attack told reporters how they hid with her baby until they were rescued by israeli troops. They were terrorists inside the kibbutz. We were basically barricaded in, we heard shooting for 21 hours until the army rescued us. We kept Hearing Shootings and gunfire and bombs and alarms. We just dont know what was happening. Our worst nightmare. We had our chargers, so we were communicating with anyone that we could. My parents included. We lost communication with them around five pm on saturday. We havent heard from them since. We dont know whats happening yet. They are the only house in the cookbooks that was not reached yet. Because there are still terrorists there. Some people are hiding in those communities for days including 30 people in one near by kibbutz who were just rescue today. Israeli forces history than 150 have been taken hostage and are now being held in gaza. The son of one of the missing, a 66yearold grandmother, said in a news conference, he hopes he has been taken to gaza alive. We are optimistic, scenario that she is held hostage in gaza and not did on the street of the kibbutz more. Me [crying] my mom, a 66 year old lady, proud mother of me and my three other siblings who are in the room with me. Although they have been pushed back to gaza, hamas began Firing Rockets into israel today, including the coastal city of ashkelon where chief Foreign CorrespondentRichard Engel reported through the barrage. Now we are hearing it again. Stay with us. Me [sirens] there is one, a rocket. You can see it streaking in the sky right now, turning. Another. This is being launched from a different site. So now you will start to see the Iron Dome System taking them off. Today the Israeli Military continued to retaliate against targets inside the area that hamas governance. According to the Israeli Military, hundreds of hamas operatives were killed in airstrikes, which hit an Weapons Storage Site in war room. As you look at these images, gaza is one of the most densely populated places on earth, with millions of civilians in harms way. Footage also merged showing a Devastated Port Of Gaza City burning. The Health Ministry says more than 900 people have been killed in gaza, including 260 children, half the residents of gaza being under the age of 18. According to United Nations more the hundred 80,000 people have been displaced or this extremely densely populated area, with 2. 3 million residents. As one young woman put it in this footage from inside gaza, from today, channel 4 news, nothing is safe. This afternoon i met christina on the street close to her home once was. Now its not even safe to walk and this building caught fire as well during the bombardments that happened so its not safe. Nothing is safe. No nothing is safe. This is an ambulance. She is afraid of what is happening now, and what might happen next. This comes after these really Defense Minister ordered a complete siege of gaza, cutting off electricity, water, food, and fuel. Gaza has already been under a blockade for 16 years. Concerns are rising of an acute humanitarian crisis after israeli strikes hit the crossing. Theres nowhere to go for any of those people. Last Point Of Entry for basic goods in medical aid. This is just the first 24 hours or so of the response. It could be just the beginning of a prolonged conflict. Israeli military may be preparing for a full Ground Invasion of gaza. They have mobilized 300,000 reservists and are calling up 16,000 more. Ali velshi has reported extensively from war zones across the world. He has spent a lot of time in both israel and gaza. He joins me now, live from israel, about 50 miles from the border with gaza. Ali, i mentioned the nations in anguish and shock and grief. How are people processing what has happened there in israel, in your reporting . Everybody is on edge in this entire region. I have been speaking to a number of Israeli Defense forces members today and at one point today something happened around us and 50 of them started running by with their guns. Everybody is on edge. In fact, as were speaking right now, i just mentioned to my team, that we havent heard bombing in gaza. 50 miles over, there we hadnt heard bombing for a while. The way bombing is working, theyre a four hour shifts. The bombs come, the missiles coming from the navy, off the coast of gaza, for four hours and then the fighter jets start. Now the fighter jets have started, and we are hearing, you might hear, it or you might see it on the other camera, every couple of minutes or so you see another explosion in gaza, and you hear the sound. The issue here, chris, is that there are two camps in israel. There is the very frustrated fearful, angry camp of people who want hamas destroyed, and they want to see the strongest possible attack and response to the strongest Terrorist Attack that this country has seen. On the other hand, there are the families, as you said, not just 150 or so hostages that israel believes are being held in gaza, but the people who dont know whether their Family Members are hostages are not. Their priority, and theres another one of those booms, as another Missile Strike hits gaza, their families want them to be rescued first. They want that to be the priority. In fact, earlier today, i went to talk to a woman. She is from the kibbutz which abuts gaza, right on the other side of the fans, in which many people were killed, from which many people are killed and taken hostage. She believes that her husband was a hostage. We arranged to go and meet with her. As we approached, we heard her screaming. We saw her on the balcony. She was screaming into a fall, and saying why you telling me this by following . And what it turned out was that the army had just culture to tell her husband was mirage, and he was dead. He was found dead with a bullet through his head. So she was too distraught to talk to us. In fact her mother called an ambulance just to deal with the fact that she was and shattered and strategy wise. Her mother then came out to talk to me a little bit. And here is what she told me. Is she okay . You want to go back to see her. I will go back. She wont be okay. We cannot be okay after such a tragedy. But we will do our best to help. Thats what you can. We must be strong. We must help. A child by one month and the lasting told me was that her daughter had a one month old child. Her husband told her, run with the baby. They were trapped for 28 hours. She ran with the baby. She got out, go to a shelter, the army found her, she went to her mothers house, and she had just been telling report from sky news before this news occurred. There she is hoping her husband is a hostage in hoping hubby freed soon. I want to follow up on the hostage situation. I think hamas and put out a Statement Today threatening the lives of those hostages if israel struck gaza without warning, i think that was what they said. Obviously this is incredibly complicating for calculus here for the Israeli Government. 150 hostages lot of people, old what is being communicated about that . I would have to imagine that their safety is very much front of mind as people process the effects of the atrocity. So today the families of the hundred or so people that israel knows where thinks they know are hostages have been informed. The government isnt reaching out to them saying we believe your loved one is one of the hostages. The problem with this is, how to get the hostages out. There is no meaningful dialogue between israel and hamas. There is no meaningful dialogue between america and hamas. Amassed eels with iran. Hamas sometimes deals with qatar. You can negotiate a release. At one point homicide if you release, will give some people back in order for some prisoners, we will give your hostages back in order for every prisoner to be released. That is not happening at the moment. So the option b is, as you said, a Ground Offensive into gaza to rescue these hostages. But gaza, israel can see everything from the top, in gaza. They have drones above gather all the time. They know its topography looks like. They have no idea whats in those buildings are underneath. Those hostages could be anywhere in that could be human sea shields. The complexity of getting those Hostages Freed is a major issue. Ali velshi, thank you. Stay safe. Thanks for being there for us. Ali velshi is one of many correspondents including sanchez who made it to a kibbutz near the border that was attacked by hamas. Heres what hes. Our everyone the small houses in this kibbutz is a scene of horror. As you watch him here into the living room, there are four Bullet Casings all over the floor. There is just the carnage, the chaos of the people who lived here, bullet holes in the tv. Bullet holes on the wall, and its hard to believe this was once replace someone called home. Such few miles away, nbc Correspondent Nelson Barber was trying to people who witnessed the attack. She and her team are forced to take cover as rockets were fired. [sound of artillery] [speaking in a global language] Alison Barber joins me from tel aviv. What did you see there today . Ive spent a lot of time reporting on the ground in ukraine, and one thing that happened there a lot is missiles flying in the air. Here in aerate siren. But because those missiles are typically coming from the caspian sea, and russia, and that country is so big, you often have a window of time where you hear a siren and you know that depending on where you are, lets say youre in kyiv, your 45 minutes or two before it would make it into the airspace. Thats not the case here. What we saw here today, and we had three different instances we had to run into a shelter, you would hear, in hebrew, an alert that something was coming in the air, and it was not minutes that you had to get to shelter, it was literally seconds. You watched how quickly that played out. That was pretty much in realtime. You have an alert, you see something in the sky, and you run. You start hearing the booms. Thats because of how small this country is and how close those cities are that hamas is Firing Rockets on. We were about two and half miles away from the border with gaza. That is a community, sorrati, is been evacuated by Israeli Military who were told to evacuate all sylvia, but that man you saw me talking to when we were talking he was telling me about what he witnessed this weekend, on saturday. Hamas had taken over a Police Station near there and parts of the street outside his apartment, outside his home. That window, he was showing, us that his bedroom. He said he had woken up, on the sabbath, he didnt have his phone on because he doesnt use electricity when it is the sabbath, and he started to hear all sorts of different noises any peek through the windows and said he saw hamas fighters Walking Around firing their weapons. He said he had never heard artillery like that. And he watched and peek through the window for the next 20 to 30 minutes, trapped inside his home. Anytime he thought they looked in his direction, he ducked down because he was afraid if they saw him they would shoot him. The situation here is expected to only grow more worse, more dire. We know israel has moved a number number of battalions all along the border with gaza. They say they have been Building Infrastructure there, seemingly in advance of a land assault into gaza and the people there. They have nowhere to go because there was a full blockade. The one Border Crossing the theories Israeli Military crossing said they should use, the one that goes into egypt, its not actually open. They were only allowing ten points today, people had priya provoke to trap through that border, and then local military in gaza, affiliates on sky news were reporting showing videos of missiles landing near that crossing shortly after the Israeli Military heads are thats where people should be going to evacuate. Have people along that area, where sderot is the largest town there, and then there are the kibbutzes close to the border, at this point, it must be all entirely evacuated, right . Theres no one left there as of now . A lot of people have left. We did not see very many people. But when we were there today, after people had already been evacuating, people had gone, we still saw three different civilians lived in the area, two of the three didnt speak to us on camera but two people didnt anytime you have been to people have been evacuated, whether its recovering hurricanes are former war Somersby Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Wwwwwwwwwwwellison to locate is a privilege because you have space to say you have a money or resources to move so that could be some of the things that are at play here and some people could be staying just because they want to stay for whatever reasons but a lot of people have evacuated but we did see people there today who were still there and people we spoke to werent having immediate plans to leave, and why, exactly, was unclear. And you just mentioned this, but we have seen call up reservists, presumably forces that have gone down to the south. First it took, i think, to many israelis a shocking amount of time to regain control of that area. But now to pulling down what appears to be a preparation for some sort of largescale incursion . Yeah, i mean, as we were headed on the road between tel aviv and headed further south we saw a massive convoy of Israeli Military members, tanks, trucks, with Gunman On Top of, it is they were headed towards that area. There was a heavy military Police President s where we were, and yeah, as you said, the idea they have said they are amassing more their forces along now border and theyre also Building Infrastructure there. People we spoke to in that Community Though today they were still frustrated and talking about the fact that they felt like the response to the initial attacks on saturday took too long. They kept saying when they were retailing, the one man we saw, where were the Security Forces . Why did it take so long . But now, yeah, 300,000 River Reserves have been called up. They seem to be moving increasing in the direction of having an even heavier Hand Response and retaliation. Ellison barber, thank you for reporting. Coming, up how could Israeli Intelligence miss an attack of this magnitude . They say that netanyahu bears responsibility for. This next. This next. My name is marie. Im 49 years old and im a business owner. I own a lemonade and Ice Cream Shop in florida, so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. Im still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. I did not want a dramatic change. I wanted something subtle. And im really, really happy with the results. Its still me, but with fewer lines. Botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crows feet, and Forehead Lines look better. 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We suffered from terrible disaster, and we were caught by surprise and we are fighting for our life. And our people are responsible for this, the government of israels responsible for the situation. That is why right now i am helping the idf as much as i can to win the war, immediately, and after we win the war im going after those people who are responsible. Israel in a state of abject grief, shock about what is arguably the worst Security Failure in the state history. Surprise attack by hamas came amid a very deep political in ongoing crisis in the country, caused by Benjamin Netanyahus move to radically alter the countries constitutional structure to essentially get rid of judicial review. Despite the greatest Street Protests in a generation. A man who was indicted and attempting to stay out of jail, political turmoil also drew members of the countrys most powerful Security Services and apparatus and military, thousands of reservists, these really Defense Forces among those in opposition, all the way up to a former leader of the countries internal intelligence agency. With this background in protests as recently as two weeks ago, the morning after hamass brutal attack, the Editorial Board at haaretz, a left leaning paper, published a piece saying that he bears responsibility for this israel gaza war. This is an independent journalist covering the conflict for more than two decades. She joins me now from jerusalem. I would have to imagine that even three days after this there is still so much grief and shock and anguish. First, just, how do the people youre trying to are dealing and processing in thinking about what happened . Hi, chris, good evening. I think you are right, people are in shock. The people who i have talked to sound almost like theyre in a moment of Cognitive Dissonance because its so hard to absorb the dimensions of this disaster. Its hard to just absorb the ties, the lengths that tie and i dont know anyone right now who doesnt know somebody who is dead or missing. Its a pretty small country, so it all feels very intimate. And i think that has put a bit of a pause on some of the political questions that you are asking and that general noam tibon brings up. I can understand that as well. There is obviously the shock and grief and consumer the hostage situation. I asked ali about this, but i want to ask you as. Well this has to be front of mind for the security apparatus, when the israeli soldier was taken hostage in a Prisoner Exchange of 1000 prisoners to one and he was a top of mind concern for the Israeli Government, 150 now people, we think, hamas has. What is the conversation around there . What is the focus on getting them home safely . Thats also really interesting point. Burt first of all i wanna say, the number that you site of 150, im not sure where it comes for, but i think the numbers gonna rise. No, youre quoting very reputable, everyone is using it, but i have looked into, this and i cant find a source for this. If i, however, compared to the numbers of desperate posters im seeing of missing people called by Family Members, i have a pretty clear feeling that its going to rise significantly. But to the meat of your question, that exchange was one of netanyahus signaled Pre Electoral moves. Its part of a policy he had. Not only a kind of ahead of elections, but also his netanyahu doctrine, which has hailed, until now, that israel can live with hamas. I want to read you a quote, a very brief quote from march 2019. So not that long ago. And the Prime Minister of israel, netanyahu, said, anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian State has to support Bolstering Hamas and transferring money to hamas. Netanyahu told his likud knesset members. This is part of our strategy. So what you have now in israel are hurting agonizing Family Members and friends of i dont know how many people who say that this strategy has failed, that it has betrayed the country, and today there were three separate press Press Conferences held by Family Members, improvised because the government has not provided them with any support structure, and they were saying the government owes us. The government has to bring our loved ones back. But the Israeli Cabinet made a decision two days ago, saying it was not going to take these hostages into account in planning its counteroffensive. So what these families were saying today wise, explicitly, and this is almost a quote, we are going to cause an earthquake here if you do that. And yeah, i dont know that the Israeli Government has a strategy right now to address the entire issue that you just brought up. I should just note that that quote, which is, i think, reported by reporter for haaretz in a statement that netanyahu had given to fellow Looker Members in a closeddoor meeting. I cant confirm that, so i want to be clear on the sourcing of that quote. But i would like to add, this is not a solitary quote. He has had very well, publicly or articulated policy of demonizing the Palestinian Authority that was politically expedient for him, and one of his ways of doing that was cell israelis on the idea, we can deal with a mask. These pathetic little ragtag terrorists, we can handle them. And that entire doctrine has blown up in the face of all israel right now. Noga tarnopolsky, who ive been reading for years and is an incredible reporter in journalists there. Thank you so much for making time with us. I hope you and your loved ones are safe. Thank you. Still ahead, the Republican Issues in congress logging in americas response around the world. The world is watching. Theyre seeing a dysfunctional democracy. We need to get a speaker by wednesday. Senator chris murphy on what republicans need to do so americans can best support its allies. Next. Allies next an unabashed atheist. And im alarmed, as you may be, by the intrusions of religion into our secular government. Thats why im asking you to join the freedom from Religion Foundation, the nations largest and most effective association of atheists and agnostics working to keep state and church separate, just like our founders intended. Please join the freedom from Religion Foundation today. Ron reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell. Struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1 . Ask about vraylar. Because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms with vraylar. Some medicines only treat the lows or highs. 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Its olay with Olay Hyaluronic body wash 95 of women had visiblybetter skin. And my skin is so much more moisturized. The u. S. Has announced see the difference with olay. Attending Military Assets closer to israel, but without key figures who are in charge of them. Thats because the with central command, part of the Department Of Defense responsible for the middle east, has multiple top positions vacant. Thats because of senator tommy tumbles ongoing military blockade. Republicans have been holding up the wall as part of an Ongoing Campaign to restrict Abortion Rights for service members. On the other congressional chamber, the real geopolitical crisis, the constitutional officer Speaker Of The House, secular lying to the presidency, continues to be unoccupied. That is of course because House Republicans fired former Speaker Of The House kevin mcrthy last week. Theres no clear map for mccarthys replacement to be confirmed. The Acting Speaker is hamstrung in his ability to respond to the crisis. Yesterday congressman Michael Mccaul with republican chair of the House Foreign Affairs committee. He said his party used needs to get its act together quickly. The world is watching. They are seeing a dysfunctional democracy. We need to get a speaker by wednesday. And the first bill on the floor is going to be my resolution condemning hamas and its Terrorist Attacks in israel. Congressman mccauls partner on the senate side, senator bob menendez in new jersey, was forced to sit down as Senate Foreign relations care amid a damning federal corruption indictment. He denies the charges against him and say he will mount a vigorous defense. All this puts in the u. S. On a more precarious position than i probably should be. One member, chris murphy of connecticut, will join me with an update, with the very latest on where things stand. Next. Ngs stand. 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So many families desperately waiting to hear the fates of their loved ones, not knowing if theyre alive or dead or hostages. Infants and their mothers arms, grandparents and wheelchairs, Hollow Coasts Virus A Abducted and held hostage. United states is Expediting Military Aid to israel, President Biden said the will send rockets to enforce the iron dome defense system. This is in addition to aid sent every year. Chris murphys ernst serves in the Public Relations committee. Senator, good to have. You what do you view the role of the u. S. , especially senate Formulation Committee and the senate and what happens next year. We just finished the senate riffing with the administration the State Department and at first we do need to get Military Support to israel right now and were working with the israelis to find out what they need most urgently and second we need foldable magic team on the ground in the middle east, and i think its clear we will have an ambassador to the middle east by the end of next week. We also need an ambassador in lebanon, where the work is going to be done to stop a front from opening up on israels north, and third, we need to really robustly do work with our partners to try to find mechanisms of deescalation, so right now that means working with recoveries and the egyptians, countries that are allies ignited states and receive a lot of Military Assistance with United States to use the context they have with a mass to find a peaceful into the hostage crisis, with likely evolves citizens for america as well. And that last line, i can only speak to my experience as an american journalist covering american policy through the years. I remember the run up to the iraq war, the uk said, youre 20 blairs government, your, ally we stand four square behind you and what you think you have to do. That proved to be catastrophic. Strategically, and for the country, for the region. I think there is concern some have expressed that the u. S. Has to the Israeli Government, do whatever you have to, do whatever, and that will perhaps a bat massive strategic miscalculations or incredible amounts of misery and civilian death in gaza. Well, listen, right now the focus is on accountability, finding out who is missing, who is being held hostage, and understanding what the American Interest is here. But of course we expect the israelis now. I give them as much as distances misseri to find a tire and target hamas without unnecessary civilian casualties, but hamas is going to nestle itself in civilian neighborhoods believe things so theres likely going to be some civilian casualties as part of this campaign of course will do Everything Possible to help the israelis make sure they are targeting limits that kind of activity. In terms of the americans, does the u. S. Government have a clear sense of american casualties and american possible hostages . Is that a known and determined fact . It is not yet. There is still so much chaos on the ground inside israel, israel families right now dont understand who is hostage, who is dead, who is simply just missing. And we do not have a firm figure right now as to how Many Americans are being held hostage. That work is ongoing, and was one of the questions raised on the call today, and the administration is still trying to seek an answer. Its very unsettling for American Families who have loved ones in israel. But this is a crisis that israeli families are going through as well. Immediately after the attack on saturday you saw some people, there was a Wall Street Journal article but also politicians attempting to pin this on the president s policy visavis iran, that the u. S. Had funded this through some sort of bank shot story about funds that are sitting in a qatar bank and havent even been transferred to iran. Lets respond to the idea that this was the outgrowth of this administrations around policy in attempts to reinstate a . Its really sad to hear these lies being spread, that the United States gave Six Billion Dollars to iran to spend on hamas attack on israel. This is a complicated story, but the bottom line for today is that not a single dime of that money has been transferred. Its irans money that was being held in a korean bank account. Its not u. S. Money. Second, the reports that iran has played a direct role in planning of these attacks has not been confirmed in the knighted states yet. But that question is kind of immaterial because thomas would not exist if not for iran support and because its a bit of Splitting Hairs as to while they were intimately involved in the planning of these attacks or simply funded hamas for decades to give them the ability to plan these attacks. There is no doubt that iran has blood on its hands, but there was also no doubt that it was not a single Dime Of American Money but ended up in the hands of iran, transfer to hamas, as has been alleged by many opponents of the president , who see more intent on scoring political points against democrats than they are in supporting israel. Senator chris murphy of connecticut. Thank you for making time with us. Still to come, the israeli response to the deadly hamas attacks and what it means for the 2 Million People living in the narrow gaza strip. Thats next. 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Way back in 1982 we took care of about forty kids and had to turn away over two hundred and fifty. Its the emotion of that moment that said man that just isnt fair, and i think it was at that moment that Operation Smile was born. Every three minutes a child is born with a cleft condition. Thousands are waiting for the cleft surgery and care your support gives. They need you. Give joy and a new smile. Scan the code or go online to give today. [car tires screeching] whenever heartburn strikes. Get fast relief with tums. Gazis a tiny strip of land on its time to love food back. Also available tums sleep support. The east coast of the mediterranean sea. You can see it here on the map. It is one of two Palestinian Territories thats bordered by israel to the north, egypt to the south. Its only 25 miles long. It is roughly the same land area as philadelphia. Gazas population is about a third more than, philly its Population Density on part with the city of london. Earlier this, week in addition israels Bombing Campaign in gaza, the Israeli Defense minister announced a complete siege. [speaking in a global language] that phrase, human animals, has stuck with me since ive heard. A real question of what things will look like for more than 2 Million People living their, including roughly 1 million children, with literally no place to go. No real access to food and water, or electricity. And airstrikes already started. Peter is the editor at large of the magazine jewish currents. And also the professor of journalism and the university of new york. Ayman mohyeldin of the msnbc, a report extensively from gaza. During the 2014, war and both join me now. Good to have you. Let me start with you, peter, you wrote very movingly about Reading Psalms in synagogue this weekend. What he was saying before, about how much this has touched people in the state of israel, people with connections, people with a jewish diaspora. It is not that larger country, this is a catastrophe. Yeah, i mean, at the center of judaism is the metaphor of jews as a family. Thats in the deep recesses, and a very, very traumatized family. Sometimes, we dont even realize how traumatized. Theres a notion in hebrew all jews are responsible for one another. This is felt, intensely. Everyone is kind of just in a daze. And, so, its just a sense of profound horror and dislocation. It evokes the most painful memories from jewish history. The israeli general talked about program, the door by door illness that we saw in this kibbutz. Lets talk about the Security Situation and security calculation of the israeli state now. It seems to me that this was shocking, and people of compared it to 9 11, if compared it to Yom Kippur War in 1973, also something the Israeli Defense forces were not prepared for. But governing the Israeli Security theory in the last ten or 15 years, particularly, in the netanyahu era, after withdrawal from gaza, you could, into thousand six election of hamas at the behest of the bush government, which was a strange strategic move, that you could basically manage it as a cordoned off area, that occasionally you have to go in, that you could deal with the tunnels underneath. That you could cut a bunch of deals with other arab states for normalization. And essentially, create a Security Regime that would mean that that would not threaten the israeli state and its people. That theory seems to me, ayman, to lie in ruins. That theory has generally been upended at the very least, if not in complete ruins. The reason why, as people have who know this much better than me and when starting it much longer, at the core of the arab israeli conflict has been the Israeli Palestinian conflict. It has been central to the very existence of israel, to the very extensions of palestinians. The idea, if you can imagine this conflict being co centric circles, that would be the most intimate conflict that has existed. Trying to resolve that would pave the way for all other once. There are Strategic Military objectives, you know, famously, in 1979, when egypt signed a camp david agreement, Israeli Military generals had neutralized the biggest military, and the most powerful military, at the time. Which posed a threat to israel. That was taken off the table. And the idea that if you can take these pieces off the table, the united arab emirates, morocco, sudan, and possibly now saudi arabia. You would be able to create this larger pocket of safety for israel. It was never going to be a successful plan if the central issue, in which Everything Else transpired, was never resolved. You wrote a little bit about 9 11 and its residents, one of the things that i just think about again, as an american who studied and covered American Foreign policy, i remember, after 9 11, i remember the sense of rage, moral repugnance, grief, anguish. Desire for revenge. And, you know, what happened was, 20 years later, i dont think i wouldve predicted that. But 20 years later, the taliban runs afghanistan. After all of that, after what was viewed by the world as a justified response to an atrocity, the Strategic Value of the undertaking to maybe there is lessons there. Yeah, look, israeli jews dont want to hear people criticizing and preaching to them right now. Frankly, if i do it too much, theyre likely to see people like me as a traitor. And honestly, thats the way a lot of americans felt after 9 11. Were like, please, we want to hear it. We are absolutely what was done was actually barbaric. And thats true. And we are within our rights to defend. To do whatever we want. Right. Even if thats true, rage is not always the best guide to wise policy. You can go into gaza, you can kill goodness knows how many people, and will goodness knows how many things. The palestinians are still gonna be there living alongside of you, bound up with you in a single garment of destiny, these two peoples together. And if they dont live humane, decent, free lives, in some form or another, they are going to prevent, sooner or later, israeli jews from living safe human lives. Its not hamas, they will create a new organization, that attacks israel. Ive heard people talk, and again, across this range of israeli opinion, again, i think in a totally justified and understandable way. This is the barbarism on display here, that you have to get rid of hamas. Thats what ive heard of the goal. Netanyahus sent israeli leaders, in the same way that getting rid of the leadership of alqaeda seemed eminently desirable and reasonable to me. But theres a real question of, what even that means. Yeah, its a great question. The truth is, lets be, honest israel has tried to do this many, many, many, many times. Including just in the last 15 years alone. This would be the fifth war in which israel has gone after hamas. By the way, when we say gone after hamas, gone after them decapitating their spiritual leader, killing other political leaders like friend easy, trying to kill others. The risking go on and off. They killed the person who made the drones, theyve killed a bomb makers, theyve done all the assassinations that theyve needed to do. Theyve invaded gaza, they destroyed weapons depots. Watch what has happened over the course of the time that israel tried to do that. In the beginning, hamas rockets were creed made pipe bombs that were barely crossing over into israel. Mostly falling inside gaza. Here we are, almost 20 years later, they are now using drones and carrying out. Their own assaults. And this is under siege. This is what hamas is done under siege. In the course of this trajectory. Theyre rocketed gone further and further. Thank you both, gentlemen, really appreciate it. That is all in on this tuesday night, alex wagner tonight starts right now. Good evening,. Alex thank, you my friend, great analysis for a very terrible moment on the globe. And thanks to athome for joining, tonight as we continue to follow the deadly israeli