Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

Beat. The reidout with joy reid starts now. Tonight on the reidout how do you plead to the five counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference in the performance of Election Duties . Guilty. How do you plead to the six counts to perform Election Duties . Guilty. How do you plead to count 15, filing false documents in indictment 23sc188947 . Guilty. Our show tonight is brought to you by the number three. Kenneth chesebro becomes the third codefendant to plead guilty and agree to tell a Jury Everything he knows about trumps plot to overturn the Georgia Election results. While on capitol hill, it was speaker vote number three that ultimately sank the maga hopes and dreams of jim jordan to become americas insurrection friendly speaker of the house. And tonight, more than three new candidates are throwing their hat into the ring for the gavel. Plus, a Major Development in The Middle East tonight, as we see the first photo of an American Mother and daughter after having been freed from captivity by hamas. But we begin tonight with the dominos starting to fall in the Fulton County case against donald trump. After another one of his former Legal Advisers and codefendants flipped. Today, Kenneth Chesebro unexpectedly pleaded guilty for illegally conspiring to overturn trumps 2020 Election Loss in georgia. Just hours after Jury Selection began for his trial. Which was set to begin next week, alongside another former trump attorney, Sidney Powell, who also entered a surprise guilty plea yesterday morning. Chesebro is now the third codefendant to accept a plea deal. However, the first to do so on a felony charge. Part of the deal, chesebro must pay a fine, do five years probation, and write an appall aenl letter to the state of georgia. Most notably, he must truthfully testify against the remaining codefendants, including trump. As well as provide documents and evidence for the case. Chesebro may not be one of the more well known characters in this whole ploy. This is a guy with a hard to pronounce last name and a pretty bizarre character arc. Believe it or not, he got his start working as a Research Assistance for constitutional harvard law professor laurence tribe. But he was actually one of the most important players in trumps plot to overturn the election. Many have credited him as being the architect of the fake electors scheme. Which makes his cooperation to put it mildly a very bad sign for the twice impeached, four times indicted former president. And a major legal victory for Fulton County d. A. Fani willis. Not only was she able to flip two key members of the alleged conspiracy, but as the Washington Post points out, prosecutors can now avoid a trial in which they would have had to showcase much of their evidence against trump and others, which might have offered lawyers a Legal Advantage heading into other trials. Joining me now is lisa reuben, msnbc legal analyst, and melissa redman, clinical assistant professor at the university of Georgia School of law and former Deputy District Attorney in Fulton County. Thank you both for being here. Lisa, i will start with you. This is a big deal. It feels like a big deal. It avoids the first trial, but in your view, what is the significance of both of these two, you know, speedy trial defendants flipping on trump . Well, certainly, joy, the two speedy trial defendants flipping here has the advantage, as you noted, of avoiding a trial completely and allowing fani willis and her team not only to have to preview their case for former President Trump and the remaining codefendants, but it also avoids consuming their resources needlessly, and one of the key questions is going to be at what point do fani willis and her team go back to judge scott mcafee of the Fulton County Superior Court and ask him to get the trains running on time for the remaining codefendants in this case . President trump and his codefendants were counting on having at least five months plus Jury Selection to push this off. Thats no longer on the table for them. And they have pretrial motions due in december. Could those be expedited . They certainly might. And thats on top of the cooperation that fani willis and her team gained from Sidney Powell and ken chesebro. Because they have to now testify truthfully, and who are they going to testify against . Its going to be donald trump. Donald trump is at the head of this conspiracy. Fani willis is now the most successful of any of the prosecutors who have gone against trump. The new york a. G. As well. Shes now nabbed two really high profile, you know, basically confessions, and also a somewhat lower level guy, so shes got three down. Is the strategy in your view here for her to just keep flipping them with an eye on the main prize, which would be donald trump . I would imagine at some point you do want to get down to the main players. You still dont want to go to trial with 17 defendants, trying to fit into one courtroom. So i do anticipate she will continue to offer Plea Recommendations to those who are willing to cooperate. And those individuals are going to have to make real business decisions, especially those in the circle of the two that have pled. So those other codefendants involved in the Coffee County matter. They now have to decide, now that both scott hall and Sidney Powell have pled and agreed to cooperate, what are my chances of coming out of this without a Felony Conviction. To stay with you for a moment, thats a really good point. Now shes gotten people to plead guilty in the Coffee County part of the plot, which for those who its all become a big jumble, this is the part where they were taking actual data from the Voting Machines and unlawfully holding Voter Information to prove this dominion plot, that involved Sidney Powell, the bail bondsman. In the case of Kenneth Chesebro, as you point out, this now involves another side of the plot, getting the fake electors to certify that theyre the real electors. This feels like its two big chunks of it, but the chesebro part is particularly important, because this is where they were defauding the voters . Absolutely. Not only do you have Kenneth Chesebro who has pled guilty to a felony, you have those preindictment Immunity Agreements with about eight of those actual electors. All of whom are going to be able to come into court and talk about exactly what they were doing, why they were doing it, and what information they had at the time. And lisa, to come back to you for a moment. Chesebro allegedly, according to a lot of great reporting including our own katie phang, he was offered a plea deal before, turned it down. Then Sidney Powell takes the plea deal. She pleaded guilty to solely misdemeanors. His was and he pleaded to a felony. So to me, this says that the longer you wait, the deal doesnt get better. It actually gets worse, right . So for everyone looking down the line, the first person to plea, they got the best deals. They got misdemeanors. Yes and no, joy. As melissa probably knows well, georgia has a version of whats called a first offender act. That allows someone to plead guilty to a felony, but then essentially never have that felony entered on their record, provided that they comply with all of the conditions of their probation sentence. So if ken chesebro behaves himself, at the end of the three years of probation hes expected to get, it will be as if he never had any Felony Conviction at all. And that was critical for his legal team. Why . Because ken chesebro is a lawyer, and in most jurisdictions where youre licensed to practice law, if youre convicted of a felony, that license immediately evaporates. For ken chesebro, his livelihood depends on that. It looks like they got that today, joy. Let me stay with you for a second. Now lets talk about donald trump and his threats against people, members of the bar, people part of the court system. A judge has threatened to imprison donald trump for violating the gag order in the new york fraud case. Judge Arthur Engoron said in a filing this morning the court is fining trump 5,000 for leaving up an untrue and disparaging post about the clerk, engons clerk on his campaign website. Donald trump has also putp and doxed the attorney general, Letitia James. That may violate a gag order as well. He shared a blog order from a far right politicalctist on truth social that has Letitia James home address. Hes continuing to threaten people. What surprised me about engorons finding is the 5,000 fine. Thats a very tiny fine for somebody who even though its a lie, claimed to be a billionaire. Why so little . I think because chris kise who represents the former president in the new York Attorney generals trial went to the court today and said look, this was inadvertent. It was left up on the campaigns website, but the defendant did as your honor ordered him to do, he took it off truth social. The fact it remains on the campaigns website was mere inadvertence, and engoron said ill take it on faith its inadvertence this time. Ill sanction your client 5,000, but the next time, let me lay out the buffet of options that include imprisonment. This is a warning, the next time he wont be so gracious. It is an interesting series of events including what trump did to Letitia James, because the threats that we know that fani willis has received, shes talked about them. They have been Death Threats, racist threats, et cetera. What do you expect to happen in this case . Because to me, i mean, i dont know what the judge is like here, and whether this is the type of judge who would come down hard on donald trump. What do you make of the fact this is sort of a mafioso threatening atmosphere that trump is creating around these prosecutions . Well, judges are empowered, they have the authority and the duty to not only conduct trials but to try to make sure those trials are conducted safely. That includes the safety of those involved, the attorney, the court, the court staff. I would imagine the judge would do the same, if it becomes apparent there is a need to institute some type of order that there are no Media Comments about the case, i dont have any doubt hell do so. Lets talk about this, the gag order. Judge chutkan, the other case here, has lifted a narrow gag order on trump. This is the 2020 election case. She temporarily lifted her narrow gag order in Donald Trumps 2020 election interference case in washington to give lawyers time to file more briefs on the matter. Chutkan said the order would be lifted while she considers trumps request for a longer stay. She ordered special counsel jack smiths team to file any opposition to trumps bid to lift the gag order by wednesday. It is, to me, a little shocking, lisa reuben, are his lawyers making the argument that donald trump has the right to attack jack smith and jack smiths wife . What could possibly be in their Appeal Filing because that is what he was doing. He was not only slagging jack smith, he was slagging his family. I think what will be in their Appeal Filing is a lot of what we have seen from them in their opposition to the gag order itself. They will maintain that donald trump has a First Amendment right to political speech, as the presumed frontrunner for the republican president ial nomination, and that judge chutkan in imposing new conditions of Donald Trumps release, has interfered with his First Amendment rights. I dont expect that argument to be successful with the d. C. Circuit, which is the Court Of Appeal that oversees judge chutkan. However, you can see in judge chutkan despite her issuing that order, shes going Above And Beyond To Grant donald trump every advantage in that appeals process so she cant be accused of being biased against him. So if it takes a few more days for her to be able to enforce that order, shell give it to him knowing, i think, secure that the d. C. Circuit will ultimately enforce it. And melissa, to you, to just come back now to the georgia case. Steve saddo, who is Donald Trumps counsel in atlanta, claims that chesebros guilty plea was the result of pressure put on by d. A. Fani willis and her team and the prosecutions looming threat of prison time and said i fully expect the truthful testimonyl be favorable to myense strategy. He said the sam thing about the krakken ladys plea. What do you make of that . Is that just brave talk . I mean, you kinda have to assume the attorneys are going to put on their best face in light of all of these defendants entering guilty pleas and agreeing to cooperate and testify against the remaining codefendants. So i think you do have to i have every faith that he is confident that his version of the facts are consistent with the previous arguments made by both Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro, so he believes if they continue to assert those versions of the facts, that it will be helpful to his defense. We shall see. Lisa reuben and melissa redman, thank you both very much. Up next on the reidout, the Capitol Hill Chaos continues as House Republicans reject jim jordan once and for all, with a bunch of new candidates now ready to throw their hats into the ring. The reidout continues after this. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in many people whether youre 18 or 80. 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He hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Youre replacing me . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. If youre still having bladder leaks, its time for a change. Axonics therapy gave me my life back. Its not another pad or pill. Its amazing that a tiny device can provide 15 years of relief and you can try it out first. Get started at findrealrelief. Com Ask A Bladder Specialist if Axonics Therapy is right for you and to discuss potential risks. Results and experiences may vary. Lets get your life back Liberty Mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. Oh. [dog barks] no its just a bunny only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Its easy to get lost in investment research. Introducing j. P. Morgan personal advisors. Hey david. Connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. Lets find the right investments for your goals okay, great. J. P. Morgan wealth management. Jim jordan is an effective legislator. The honorable jim jordan of the state of ohio has received 194. The honorable Hakeem Jeffries of the state of new york has received 210. No person having received a majority of the whole number of votes cast by surname, a speaker has not been elected. Humiliating as that was, that was not the death blow to Maga Insurrectionist jim jordans request for the house speakers gavel. Tying the record for the fewest number of votes for a majority nominee. After retreating to yet another Conference Meeting in a Secret Ballot vote, republicans voted against continuing to support jordan as their Speaker Designee after a week of wasting everyones time trying to get him to the necessary 217 votes. So, 2 1 2 weeks after booting Kevin Mccarthy, House Republicans are right back to where they started, no house speaker, no plan to find one. Jordans Donald Trump Style Intimidation Campaign backfired spectacularly. His detractors remained unmoved despite harassing Text Messages september to their wives or the Death Threats several of the holdouts said they received even as their colleagues tried to downplay the harassment as part of the job. So far, i had four Death Threats. I have been evected from my office in colorado. I have notice of an eviction because the landlord is mad. For not voting the will of their voters and their constituents, theyre feeling that pressure. As they should. The people want jim jordan. Today, were getting more of these text things about, you know, rinos are stopping jim jordan. True leaders are followed. I have to follow you because youre my leader. I dont have to be pushed into you, to be a leader. But it might help to ask why republicans, and jim jordan specifically, put themselves and us through this. Despite knowing for a week that jordan didnt havehe votes. The answer may lie in who has been helping to fuel the chaos. Namely, Right Wing Media figures from Foxs Sean Hannity toight Wing Podcaster and the man who bragged about Making Breitbart the home of the White Nationalist altright, steve bannon. Theashington post reported that bannon had been publicizing the Phone Numbers o House Republicans, and matt gaetz went on his show to praise bannon, bannon viewers for the deluge of calls. Before todays vote, bannon, who has been sentenced to four month in prison for defying congressional subpoenas and will go on trial for a fake build a wall scheme, is urging jordan to keep up the abuse. Jim jordan is finally listening. Get to the floor and keep voting. Rip the mask off. Let the whole nation and particularly the district c, the southern congressman, corrupt up to their eye balls, the appropriators and Armed Services committee, expose them to the nation. Let them sit there and let their constituents see them. So now, after jordans very public and spectacular failure, the house will go home for the weekend after 17 days with no speaker. In a speech last night, President Biden made the Case Forarynd economic aid to israelnd ukraine. But that will have to wait. In astatement, a White House Spokesman said, House Republicans need t end their chaotic fighting and their compet to out extreme one another and instead join President Biden in working on urgent priorities. Since republicans lowest priority is apparently a functional house of representatives, theyll meet again on monday for a candidate forum. So far at least, ten republicans are running or considering a run, with an eye towards a tuesday floor vote. Joining me now is congressman Eric Swalwell of california. And charlie sykes, editor at large of the bulwark and an msnbc contributor. I want to play a sound mash that includes Kevin Mccarthy, matt gaetz, and Dusty Johnson of south dakota. Well have to go back to the drawing board. What history will look at, the crazy eights led by gaetz, the amount of damage they have done to this party and this country, is insurmountable. I have never seen this amount of damage done to just a few people for their own personalities, for their own fear of whats going through, and really, its astonishing to me. And were in a very bad position as a party. Obviously, were in unprecedented time. This continues to show how terribly irresponsible it was for 208 democrats and 8 republicans to put this house into chaos. The most popular republican in the United States congress was knifed by a Secret Ballot. Congressman swalwell, i will give Kevin Mccarthy credit for growth. At least temporary growth. Maybe it will be like Hireversal On January 6th when he said trump was to blame, only to run and fall to his knees at trumps feet. But he at least is now admitting it was the republicans. Is that a good sign that hes found reality . I dont know. What are your thoughts . Baby steps. Just to welcome Kevin Mccarthy back to reality, it was Kevin Mccarthy who struck all of these deals with the loan sharks in his party, so he could become speaker. Hes the one who created the environment that one person could wreak this chaos and throw him out within his own party. He was just so desperate to be speaker, not a leader, that he hung on for a couple months. And then they all called in the loans. And he couldnt pay up. Thats why hes out. So its actually really also very rich that he was the one nominating jim jordan. I couldnt think of a worse person to nominate me than the guy who had just got thrown out. Its funny if this was a comedy. Its not funny when you consider what is at stake, and the republicans have shown themselves as an opposition party. Theyre not a governing party. And the moment requires more than republicans can offer. And the only path forward to fund the government when funding runs out in a couple weeks, to fund the humanitarian needs in The Middle East and to stand with israel as it defends itself, and to stand with ukraine as it defends freedom against russia, the only way forward is a bipartisan governing coalition, and we keep raising our hands and saying, take yes for an answer. Were here to give you those votes. Charlie, you know, there was a gentleman, one of the members of the republican caucus, said you know, a leader leads. And people want to get behind them. You dont have to threaten and give Death Threats to make people get behind you. Thats not a leader. And jim jordan did try that. He tried that trump strategy, and trump has made thuggishness and Political Violence standard in the republican party. I think that is to me the most stunning thing. That hes normalized the idea of Political Violence so much that nancy mace says, its just part of the job to get Death Threats. Really . So thats where we are now . I guess thats where we are now, at least among republicans. Keep in mind the playbook did not work this time. The good news is that you had more than 20 republicans that stood up against donald trump. Steve bannon, and thought that the idea of electing jim jordan was too absurd and dangerous. The bad news is the chaos is going to continue because the conference itself is the chaos. This remains trumps party. This remains a party that is still afraid of what steve bannon has to say. And for steve bannon, this kind of chaos, this kind of fear is a ladder. This is his brand. And he has to be very, very frustrated that it did not work this time. Again, maybe just a green chute that you had two dozen republicans who said maybe we ought to stand up against the bullies. Maybe we ought to stand up against the threats. Maybe the Critical Mass will mean something. I dont know. It hasnt in the past. But this was interesting. It was so naked, it was so confident that if we attack people, if we threaten them, that they will cave in because they have before. And to your point, you have people like nancy mace, and it was others as well, who kind of said well this is a red herring. This is no big deal. This is what you expect. That really was a sign that they have normalized, and they expect this kind of tactic is legitimate and this will drive the republican conference. To stay with you for a second, charlie, i want to remind people who steve bannon is. Besides saying he made brightpart the home the altright, he has been fnd guilty of two countsf contempt of congress. As sentenced to four months incarceration. He was indn five Felony Counts in conn wh his role in a fundraising effort to esyie to Trump Supporters and say they wer going to Fund Building a wall it was a lie. They were snding it on their own persona fund. The Southern District of new york, he was pardoned by trump in that same scheme. This is somebody who defrauded the very people he claims hes trying to get a speaker for. And yet, he essentially is giving the strategry to the republican conference. And has been for a long time. Steve bannon is who he has been telling us he is. Hes a grifter, an extremist, and thug. When donald trump came into office, he was installed in a very, very significant position in the white house. With the ear of the president of the United States. So hes going to keep doing what hes doing. Hes launching a campaign against the number three republican who has been endorsed by Kevin Mccarthy. Tom emmer committed the terrible crime of absolutely voting to certify the election of joe biden. So this mess is nowhere close to being done at all. Until they do what Congressman Swalwell said, say hey, were going to have to deal with the democrats, were going to have to have a bipartisan majority. Right now, thats a red line for most of them. Lets give you the last word on this, representative swalwell. I want to put up the list of people putting themselves forward. Kevin hearn, jody arrington, donald, the guy who got his head rubbed by the guy who believes in lynching in texas. Most didnt vote to certify the election. Are any of thee people viable . No, and they could put it on monster. Com or like, whatever job Search Engine they want. Its become that ludicrous. And the only path forward is to come to democrats. And joy, if you have crossed the ruicon where youre not going to let Death Threats get in the way of you doing what you think is the right thing, you have already shown the courage to do the right thing. And now, the only path forward, the only way to get the majority of votes is to work with us, as i said, to keep government open, to fund ukraine. Theres not much more we really have to do other than those efforts. And so were just ready, standing ready to get things done. Let me show you how unserious they are. One of their members, a republican who had voted for jordan, traveled to israel today and missed the vote because he said he was going on a Fact Finding Mission in israel. No, Go On A Speaker Finding Mission here so we can get things done. We stand ready. Were competent. Theyre chaotic. Congressman Eric Swalwell, charlie sykes, thank you both. Coming up, hamas releases two american hostages as u. S. And european officials pressure israel to delay its Ground Invasion in hopes of bringing home even more hostages. More next. He hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Youre replacing me . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache. Only pay for what u ed. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. With the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. Oh. [dog barks] no its just a bunny only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. He hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Youre replacing me . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache. Only pay for what u ed. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. A major breaktop through today in the israel hamas crisis. Two americans abducted by hamas have been released. We have a new video released moments ago that well have for you short lay, and was shot by hamass brigades. Showing Judith Raanan and natali raanan. The released hostages are from evanston, illinois. They were kidnapped while visiting a kibbutz in southern israel. The mother and daughter were greeted at the gaza border by the Israeli Military and taking to a Military Base deeper in israel where they were reunited with Family Members. Judith a natali are also shown here with members of the Israeli Defense forces in a Photo Provided by the izrille government. President biden spoke by phone with judith and natali raanan, sharing this photo. He told them the u. S. Will fully support them as they recover and heal. Earlier, the president also released a statement saying the u. S. Secured the release and thanked the governments of qatar and israel for their partnership. Biden maintains hes is working around the clock to secure the release of the remaining american hostages. The two freed americans are related to former israel based nbc news correspondent martin fletcher. Heres what he had to say about the release earlier today. At the moment, the mother and sister are on the way to the border with Gaza To Meet Judith and natali. They havent met them yet, as far as we know. But theyre on the way. Its going to happen any moment. The family was, of course, the cousin told me, were shocked. Were happy. Its unbelievable. Were celebrating. I said how much are you drinking . They said were not celebrating too much yet because we dont know what condition their Family Members are in. Are they hurt . They dont know. Theyre not celebrating yet but theyre getting ready to celebrate. Theyre certainly celebrating theyre alive and well. I now want to hoe you that video, as promised. This is the video of the mom and daughter who have now been released. Judith raanan and natali raanan. You can see them here. And we blurred out the vision of everyone else. I believe they are with Israeli Security forces. Joining me now are nbc news correspondent hala gorani and john brennan, Senior National security analyst for msnbc. I want to start with you, hala, because this is a Major Development in terms of two american citizens being released by hamas. On the ground there, what does it seem to bode for whether or not we will see a major Ground Incursion in the next couple days . Reporter thats a good question. Will it delay it, will it change the strategy on the ground as far as the Israeli Military is concerned . Because two hostages were released today, but about 200 remain. And this is really due to the mediation of qatar, that has spoken with israel, that allows hamas to maintain a Political Base in doha, that sends hundreds of millions of dollars a year to the gaza strip, joy, and so it wouldnt have taken much effort for qatar to get these two american hostages out. The fact that theyre american, in fact, is quite significant. We heard from a hamas spokesperson that they were released, these americans, quote, to prove to the American People and the world that the claims made by biden and his fascist administration are false and baseless. The big question, of course, is will this lead to the release of more hostages . Hamas seems to indicate that if the Security Conditions allow, not exactly sure what that means, they would be willing to close the, quote, civilian file. So there is hope that more civilian hostages will be released. But there are also, of course, military hostages, troops detained, and those will be used presumably as Bargaining Chips by hamas. Also, i would caution against being extremely optimistic for a quick timeline here. This might be a little crack, not an open door. It could be a trickle and not a flood of hostage releases as many of the Family Members and others are hoping will happen, joy. You know, john brennan, to bring you in here, the release of these hostages who we can see them now, it does, i guess, for a lot of americans beg the question, well, if a major incursion begins and lots of bombing happens, people who you can see alive and well might not be. And would that jeopardize the lives of americans . Do you think that is part of the strategy of hamas in releasing particularly these american hostages who happen to be related to a pretty big time american journalist . I think its exactly hamass strategy to continue this extortion of the hostage situation. And by releasing these two americans, they know that america is the one that is trying to counsel restraint on israel. So by sending two of these individuals out from gaza, i think theyre trying to increase the expectations of americans that in fact there could be further releases coming down the pike. But if there is going to be this Ground Incursion, it does put the safety and security of the hostages in jeopardy. As hala said, i think this is going to be a very small trickle. Clearly, the government of qatar was instrumental in getting these two individuals out. Qatar has had very close relations with hamas over the years. Providing hundreds of millions of dollars a year to keep gaza afloat. So therefore, they use those relationships and contacts, but im sure the brigades, which is the Terrorist Core of hamas, is seeing that this is only going to be an effort to try to get this incursion delayed and to see whether or not they could increase the pressure on israel aside from the United States and other countries as well, to get israel to pull back on its plans to move into gaza in force. We know they have not pulled back on the bombing. There was a church bombing, an Israelibing Hit The Grounds of a Greek Orthodox church in gaza city which was sheltering displaced people on thursday night. Israels militarycknowledged it damaged the site while targeting what it claimed was a Hamas Command Center nearby. A Palestinian American republican justin amash posted on social media, i have now confirmed several of my relatives were killed at the Orthodox Church in gaza when part of the complex was destroyed as the result of an israeli air strike. The Palestinian Christian community has endured so much. Our family is hurting badly. May god watch all over israelis and palestinians who are suffering. For a lot of americans who may not even realize that bethlehem is in the occupied palestinian territories, a lot of biblical sites are located there. And in gaza, there are christians. What do you make of the bombing of a church in gaza . A christian church. Reporter so the Israeli Military has said that because hamas hides among the civilian population, because they have networks and perhaps stockpiles of weapons that they will hide in schools, that they will target those stockpiles and those weapons wherever they are. There are claims that perhaps this church was used for that. Although on the ground, were not hearing that. Were not hearing that from the people inside the church. They are extremely upset that part of the structure crumbled, killing several people. I coincidentally visited that church many years ago when i was doing a story on the christians of gaza. Its a tiny community. At the time, all those years ago, it wasser barely 1,000 people. I cant imagine its more than that today. And it is extremely sad, the loss of life is sad. The destruction of a building, parts of which were erected in the 12th and 13th centuries also gone. So its certainly for the christians, the christian palestinians who have ties to this region, a very unfortunate and sad event, including for the former republican congressman, justin amash. And john brennan, isnt the challenge here that saying the church is hiding munitions, youre bombing a church . And at the end of the day, there is international law. And in the case of the bombing of Baptist Hospital in gaza, the archbishop of canterbury might be surprised to find out theyre run by hamas. The doctors might be surprised to find theyre a legitimate target. Isnt that the challenge here, that you know, this is a small compact area, and people cant leave in part because the egyptian leadership has said, im going to quote the egyptian president , whats happening now in gaza is an attempt to force civilian residents to take refugee and migrate to egypt. Egypt rejects any attempts to resolve the palestinianssue by Military Means or by the forced displacement of palestinians. Theres nowhere for them to go and their neighboring countries are saying you cant force them here to become refugees in egypt. Yes, joy. As you point out, its so, so densely populated and the buildings are on top of one another. I think the Israeli Defense forces say they were targeting something that was adjacent to the church and the blast knocked down apiration of the church and unfortunately killed some people. Any time the israelis take strikes there, its almost impossible not tocivilians that are nearby. Thats so tragic that we look at what is happening to gaza itself and all the buildings that have come down and the people killed. Over 4,000, 5,000 people now. Its because its so densely packed together that its impossible to really distinguish and to have only militants killed in these strikes. Yeah. Hala gorani and john brennan, thank you both very much. Well be right back. Arfarin. Eliquis. Eliquis reduces stroke risk and has less major bleeding. 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Its indisputable that hamas perpetrated a heinous attack on civilians, the israeli response and the context of the overall situation in israel in the occupied territories in palestine, some 70 years of difficult history, have complexities that arent as easy to categorize into neat boxes. Hamas doesnt represent all palestinians, or even all gazans. And there are many Arab Americans who have expressed empathy for the israeli hostages kidnapped in those were her killed in the october seven attack. The Israeli Government doesnt represent all jews around the world, or even in israel. And there are plenty of jewish people in israel in the u. S. Who are expressing empathy for palestinians in gaza. In fact, there have groups of Jewish Americans demanding a ceasefire, protesting at both the white house and the capitol this week, with hundreds arrested. Im joined now by stephanie fox, the executive director of jewish voice for peace, one of the jewish groups that organized the protests. Thank you so much for being here, stephanie. I saw those protests and it was very heartwarming to see just Human Consideration and care. What prompted your organization to do those protests . Absolutely. Thanks for having me, joy. This week we brought together 5000 jewels and a massive demonstration demanding joe biden and other american lawmakers tell israel to implement a ceasefire right now. We believe this is the largest demonstration in History Of Jews in solidarity with palestinians. We were led by 25 rabbis and a massive Civil Disobedience were about 500 people staged a sit in you are seeing there. And we did this while meanwhile the Israeli Military is raining down bombs on palestinians in gaza, the 2 million palestinians trapped by land, sea, and water and air, there is no food, theres no electricity, theres no fuel, people are rationing food, drinking seawater. People are trapped under the rubble. Hospitals are out of electricity and whole families are being wiped off the Population Registry because every single member, every single member, every generation has been killed. We see beloved palestinian friends and colleagues in Gaza Tweeting with their last few moments of battery life on their phones, in english, about whats going on, because they understand that we in the u. S. Have the power to stop this. Its our government that is pouring billions of dollars into what we really understand is a genocidal war on palestinians, being done with our tax dollars, in as a jewish community, in our names. So we showed up to say no. Not in our names. Not with our tax dollars. We refuse this. Its interesting, i dont know if you want to comment on Marjorie Taylor greene calling your protest an insurrection, but i noted that 300 of your members were arrested that day. That is a very negative context comparison to the actual insurrection where people were allowed to go home. What do you make of the pack fact that Peace Activists were arrested when people who were storming the capitol were allowed to go home . Its a lot about the values of the u. S. Government. Jewish americans showing up to say absolutely not in our names, demanding a ceasefire now, and demanding an end to violence to our people now, ending 75 years of oppression of palestinians. But really, primarily, in that space saying ceasefire now, that hundreds and hundreds of us were hauled out by capitol police. It says a lot about where the u. S. Governments support goes. Lets talk about the progressive jewish folks in this country who say they feel abandoned by the left, that they dont feel supported, that jewish people still are the number one targets of hate crimes. What do you make of that, of peoples feeling that there isnt as much support for jewish folks who are also scared and grieving . You know, i was raised to understand the Core Jewish Value Of [speaking in a global language] which means every single life is precious. All human beings are made in the image of the divine, and every single life is worth, is an entire universe. I was also, i think about the core lesson that my great grandmother, may her memory be a blessing, taught me which is that the saying we must learn from the holocaust is that the world let it happen. And to me, being jewish, in the core of me means that there is no such thing as being a bystander in moments of historic injustice. Master tricity. There is nowhere else the jews would be then a fight to end genocide. Its an feasible. Stefanie fox, you are awesome. We didnt do week who won the week because of all this going, on but my sister, you won the week. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Two years. Two years after advil. Feeling better . On top of the worlddddd before advil. Advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. 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