Transcripts For MSNBC Deadline White House 20240919

From your local County Office to the hallowed halls of capitol hill, conversations are right now underway about something that was a few years ago unthinkable here in the united states of america, the stuff we thought happens in struggling, fledgling democracies, not here. Officials today everywhere bracing for the possibility of chaos around the 2024 president ial election. Thanks to an expresident who launched a Coup Attempt that ended in violence instead of conceding his defeat last time and is now priming his supporters to be shocked, shocked if he loses to a candidate whose entry in the race has thrown him for a loop. A candidate beating him in levels of enthusiasm, crowd size, most polls, basically any significant metric for a president ial campaign. The Associated Press reports that one suburban Atlanta County is deploying local sheriffs at early voting locations and Panic Buttons that connect Poll Managers to 911. More from that reporting, quote, californias Los Angeles County and durham county, north carolina, will have new offices with significant Security Upgrades for this years election. They include Bulletproof Glass, Security Cameras and doors that open only with badges. Election workers across the country also will have new procedures for handling mail, including kits of narcan, the spray used for accidental overdoses. In some places Election Workers are being trained in Deescalation Techniques and how to respond to an active shooter. All of this is in response to the elevated Threat Level against officials in the wake of the 2020 Election And Donald trumps Big Lie. Here is the Deputy Attorney General yesterday. We are seeing an unprecedented and extremely disturbing level of threats of Violence And Violence against public officials, including prosecutors, fbi and other Law Enforcement agents, judges and Election Officials. This is a point really that we have to underscore, the threats against Election Officials who are often simply volunteers. These are people who are simply volunteering their time to help us undertake the most fundamental right we have, the right to vote, the right that secures all the other rights. These are people who are being threatened simply for doing their job. Its wrong. Its unacceptable. And it should stop. We are doing everything we can to expose that and hold individuals who are perpetrating those threats accountable. Here is what happened just this week on this front. Nbc news reports, a senior Law Enforcement official confirmed that Election Officials in at least six states received packages monday but none of the packages have been found to contain any actual hazardous material. Secretaries of State And Attorney generals offices and State Election offices in nebraska, iowa, kansas, tennessee, wyoming and oklahoma were targeted. The Return Address identified the sender as the u. S. Trader elimination office, that Election Officials who as Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco Points Out are volunteers, that they would be seen as traitors, is cause and affect. The result of a Poison Coursing through our democracy, the lie told by Donald Trump that the 2020 election was stolen from him followed by the lie that this election would be stolen and the person fomenting that is running for the White House again because of this, Election Officials are stocking up on narcan. They have installed Bulletproof Glass and Panic Buttons. In washington, democrats are preparing for a possible showdown again on january 6, 2025. Over on capitol hill, politico reports that democrats are, quote, hoping that Kamala Harris will win in november and they will flip the house. It would likely be Hakeem Jeffries holding the Speakers Gavel as the process of certifying a victory gets underway. Its nagging top house democrats. Mike johnson might keep his majority as harris wins and finds himself in a position where he could have struck the counting of electorate votes and possibly throw the election to the house under the constitutional provisions of the 12th amendment. Johnson after all led House Republicans in filing a brief after the 2020 election asking the Supreme Court to essentially overturn Swing State results. Now, he is leading a charge suggesting that undocumented immigrants are voting en masse in what they view is an effort to sow doubt in the election. Officials bracing for the worst and preparing to defend the way our Democracy Functioning before, during and after the 2024 president ial election is where we start. In a moment, we will be joined by the Colorado Secretary of state, and voting Rights Attorney Mark elias. We start with the New York times reporter who has been on the beat for years now. Nick, i feel like you have this extensive and vast body of reporting that takes us through the Voter Suppression laws, first championed and passed and signed into law in georgia, through the antics of noncertification, refusing to certify things being maybe beta tested in nevada. Take me through the state of Play Today as we are less than 50 days ahead of a general election. I think unsurprisingly, we are back in the state that really first caught national attention after the 2020 election, and thats georgia. The State Election board in georgia, which is recently seen they have seen a 32 majority right Wing Majority take over the board. Its passing new rules that are concerning, not just democrats but republicans and Election Officials and everyone from the County Level to the State Level in georgia that could possibly disrupt the postelection period. We are talking about the certification, the counting of votes and the sending off of electors to the Electoral College. Last month, they passed a rule that would allow for local Election Officials to take a reasonable inquiry before they certify, which raised a lot of concern about whether that could throw certification into question. Now they are scheduled to meet on friday. They have over a dozen new rules and new proposed agenda items. We are less than 50 days out of an election. Secretary of state Raffenspergers Lawyer sent a scathing letter to the State Election board saying, you shouldnt change these rules. The board of every County Election Official sent a similar letter. We will see what happens friday with the State Election board in georgia. When it manies could to concerns about the new laws, thats where we see the most action right now. Nick, let me just play some of the sworn testimony from Election Officials from 2020, at least half of them republicans like brad raffensperger. It has all gone too far. All of it. Joe asked for chris, a patriot, to be shot. A 20 Something Tech Today has Death Threats and a Noose Put outside saying he should be hung for treason because he was transferring a report on batches from an ems to a County Computer so he to read it. About 45 minutes later, we started to hear noise outside my home. My stomach sunk. I thought, its me. Then it just we dont know whats go the uncertainty of that was what was the fear. Are they coming with guns . Are they going to attack my house . Im in here with my kid. After the election, my cell was doxed. My wife started getting the texts. Hers same in as sexualized attacks which were disgusting. We have various groups come by and they have had Video Panel trucks with videos of me proclaiming me to be a pedophile and a pervert and a corrupt politician and blaring loudspeakers in my neighborhood and leaving literature both on my property but arguing and threatening with neighbors and with myself. Ive lost my faith of security all because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally Rudy Giuliani decided to scapegoat me and my daughter, to push their own lies about how the president ial election was stolen. I gained about 60 pounds. I just dont do nothing anymore. I dont want go anywhere. I secondguess everything that i do. It has affected my life in a major way, in every way, all because of lies. For me doing my job. Same thing ive been doing forever. Nick, i played that because that is what Donald Trump achieved last time. Without all the rules changes, the laws being changed in statewide in georgia and with this Election Board you are talking about. Can you give us specific examples of how the laws have been changed to make that effort easier in 2024 for Donald Trump . Sure. Its important to look at laws like what changed in georgia. Reorienting the State Election board to give it more control. Taking the authority from local Election Officials or secretaries of state and handing it to partisan entities. Removing processes that were trusted in the 2020 election, like drop boxes, taking those out of the equation. We have seen that across the country. What i think is really important to look at now is not just how those laws changed but theres active lawsuits and active litigation to try to further change the rules. We are less than 50 days out. Theres been lawsuits by the former President Targeting Mail ballots in nevada. Ones that could arrive late as allowed by the state law. You have a grace period. They are trying to say anything that arrived after Election Day must be thrown out. That alone could disenfranchise legal votes under nevada law. What it could also do is it puts into question a certain bucket of ballots for lack of a better word. Those could be used as evidence in a future challenge. We are seeing lawsuits trying to establish that there could be certain questions or numbers of ballots that would throw an election into doubt, at least that argument is being made. Its being made by the former president on social media. As we kind of head into this final spring in the general election, these lawsuits are taking advantage of some State Laws that have been passed and are going to really put that to the test. New federal laws that have been tested like the electoral Count Reform Act through the courts in the first again election coming up in november. Nick, stay close to the cameras for the next 50 days. We will need you. Thank you for starting us off. I want to bring in the Colorado Secretary of state. One of the Election Officials who was sent a suspicious package under investigation. Joining us, the Voting Rights attorney, founder of democracy docket. Mark, i start with you. Pick up on the point about the frivolous lawsuits filed to throw into question the results in the minds of the base of supporters and amid that base, of course, for the people who were inspired to travel to washington on january 6, because they believed that lies. We heard them testify before the select company, people who said he believed Donald Trump. Tell me the State Of Play now, 50 days out from the election. Donald trump used Frivolous Litigation in his career as a builder, in his career as a casino owner, to try to intimidate his adversaries and enemies throughout his career. One statistic that will put into perspective is in 2020, if you look from January 1 to september 16, basically a couple of days ago, the Republican Party and their Allies Filed 13 lawsuits. Thats a lot to make it harder to vote. That was how many they filed in 2020. This year, they have filed over 80. They are flooding the courts with litigation aimed at one thing and one thing only, making it harder to vote and making it easier for them in the postelection to contest elections. They are not going to get away with it. They are losing the lawsuits. Democrats are fighting back. Were all fighting back. They are not going to succeed. But they are trying to weaponize the courts in the way in which they weaponized so many other institutions of government, to try to merge their political support for the Election Denier Movement with an operational support, whether it be in Court Or God forbid we see another january 6. Mark, one of the ways you have explained sort of then versus now is that last time, they went up against you 61 times, they lost 60 times. Your cautionary note is that some of the attorneys are better. But the facts are just as flimsy. Handicap the prospects for any legal success. Yeah. Those 13 and 81 numbers that i said, thats preelection litigation. In the postelection in 2020, we saw Donald Trump and his Allies File 65 lawsuits. They lost 64. That was great. It was bad for the country that was put through that, but it showed the courts would hold and the courts would not yield to a barrage of Frivolous Litigation. The problem is since then republicans have been studying what they did wrong, in addition to not having the facts on their side. They have upgraded their legal talent. We are not seeing in court my Law Firm is involved in 50 plus lawsuits. We are not seeing Rudy Giuliani and sidney powell. The lawyers are better. They have upgraded. A lot of republican lawyers who i think were shocked and appalled by Donald Trump in 2020, they have capitulated. The republican legal establishment has capitulated in the same respect that we have seen the Republican Partys elected officials capitulate. They are getting more access to more and better lawyers. My message is the same, which is that at The End of the day, Theres Nothing the republican lawyers are going to do thats going to change the outcome. In The End, Kamala Harris is going to get more votes and more electoral votes than Donald Trump. Madam secretary of state, along the way, if thats the ultimate outcome, folks like yourself are seeing this Threat Environment persist and in some bays accelerate. Tell us what its like for you and your staff. First off, thank you for having me on. Its great to join you. We do see a consistent Threat Environment. To be very clear, the Threat Environment has been relatively consistent since the insurrection on january 6, 2021. To put it into context, i myself have received nearly 1,000 Death Threats or violent threats since september of just last year. In colorado, we did receive one of the suspicious mailings yesterday. That did contain white powder that was then intercepted before it got to my office. The Threat Environment in itself is leading to Election Officials stepping down. It has led to turnover. Folks come in in their places. We have County Clerks ready to go, secretaries of state ready to go. I think we will have a great election with the uncertainty that Donald Trump has tried successfully to inject into the electoral process. I want to ask you more about the status of the investigation into what was sent to your office. I have to sneak in a break. Stick around. Theres so much more to show you, including Liz Cheney being on this side this time around. Theres no bottom for some of the folks, Sara Huckabee sanders trying to get under j. D. Vance in a race to the bottom with another shameful attack on Kamala Harris and her family. We wont spend too much time on her. We will talk about the bigger political problem it represents for the Republican Party in their effort to win over women ahead in november. Later, how a Debunked Local Tale turned into Front Page national headlines, terrorizing one small town and the people who live there. The Gop Ticket continues to push their dangerous racist playbook. All those stories and more when deadline White House continues after a quick break. Stay with us. Im not just an expert on eyecare savings, im also an expert in looking good. Like when you wear florence by Mills Frames created by millie bobby brown, only at americas best. Talk about a big deal. Get two pairs of florence by Mills Frames for 119. 95, exclusively at americas best. Still have symptoms from moderate to severe Ulcerative Colitis or Crohns Disease after a Tnf Blocker like Humira Or Remicade . Put them in check with rinvoq. Rinvoq works differently and its a oncedaily pill. When symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief with rinvoq. Check. When flares tried to slow me down, i got lasting Steroidfree Remission with rinvoq. Check. 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And we are just getting started. Join us at watchman. Com. Watchman. Its one time, for a lifetime. I think that theres no question that violence has no place in our politics. That is not a partisan issue. Violence should have no place in american politics. I think what President Trump said this morning has it backwards. When you look at what he did when he lost the last election, when you look at his attempts to seize power, when you look at the fact that he watched people need to know this. He watched television while Police Officers were being brutally beaten at the capitol, while the capitol was being attacked and invaded. And as his family pleaded with him to tell the mob to stop the violence that was being carried on in his name. He is a threat to democracy. Theres no question. The answer to that is to defeat him at the ballot box, to defeat him in the election. I think its important for people to understand how high the stakes are. We are back with the Colorado Secretary of State And Mark elias. You said you received 1,000 Death Threats since september. Talk about your understanding of where the Threat Environment under which you have to do your Job Fits into Donald Trumps strategy. Its 100 part of his strategy. Donald trump Knows exactly what he is doing when he pushes out lies and disinformation about Election Officials, juries, judges, prosecutors. He basically sends a flag for his supporters to attack. If he did not know he was doing that initially, he does at this point. This has been a marked pattern for at least the last four years. I will tell you, it gets scary when someone and 1,000 someones are telling you how they are going to come and kill you and your family for simply doing your job, you have to take it really seriously. The Threat Environment has taken a toll. Colorado has seen a 38 turnover in County Clerks since 2020, in part because of the environment. Frankly, to a large extent, Election Officials i will speak for myself. We feel like we are alone. The doj pursued less than 20 cases since 2020. With that said, i will not be intimidated. I have not changed my course at all. If anything, it invigorates me. We will not allow folks who will try to use threats of violence or actual violence to tilt an election, to be successful. I think that Election Officials all over the country have backbones of steel at this point. Its unfortunate. We should not accept this atmosphere of violence in this country. At The End of the day, americans have the power to put this country on the right course. Thats by getting out and casting their ballots in november in the president ial election. This thing that you are talking about, doj only pursuing 20 cases is something i have heard from former doj officials, like andrew weissmann. If they were going to be true to what Lisa Monaco says in the tape i played, what do you and other Election Officials need for the next 50 days . We need state and federal officials to, number one, stop lying. People like Donald Trump, the speaker of the house, stop spreading lies. It leads to threats against our families. State officials and federal officials to step up. That includes providing security in an adequate way, pursuing prosecution. Here in the state of colorado, i have released A Million Dollars of Grant Funds to the county so they can have narcan if theres a letter laced with fentanyl so they are ready to go. They can upgrade windows if they decide they need Bulletproof Glass. I have led a law to make it illegal to have a gun at the polls, to threaten Election Workers. More needs to be done nationally and federally. We need more support. We have been sounding the alarm for four years. Where is it at . With that said, we are going to persevere. Donald trump and extremists have lost time and time and time again. What they fear most is the american people. Thats why they are trying to suppress the right to vote, because the american people have all the power in the world. Mark, its insane it is insane that she needs narcan and Bulletproof Glass. It is insane we are 49 days out and Liz Cheney is warning again about the role that Mike Johnson might play in refusing to certify. I love your optimism, but tell me what you worry about at this point. Look, my job is to worry about everything. Im worried about everything. Theres nothing i dont worry about when it comes to elections. I am optimistic but im also realistic. I understand what it is Donald Trump is capable of. I think i understood what Donald Trump was capable of before, frankly, a lot of the media understood what Donald Trump was capable of. Yourself excluded. You have done a service in educating your audience. Its something we need everyone in the next 49 days to educate their audience about these threats, what it is that the secretaries of state are up against. Here is the thing. The secretaries of state have steel backbones. The lawyers have steel backbones. The democratic party has steel backbones. We are not going to surrender our country to the threats and intimidation of Donald Trump and his supporters. We are not going to let the mobs that will that formed January 6th, but which were present before January 6th in places like detroit and in philadelphia, trying to intimidate Election Officials in georgia and arizona, were not going to let them affect the outcome of the election. At The End of the day, Donald Trump is counting on people to give up. He is counting on the cynics to win. He is counting on people to say, you know what . I dont want to be part of this. Here is the thing. Everyone listening needs to make sure they are registered, they have a plan to vote and they vote. If everyone does that, Kamala Harris and the democrats will win. Mark, we have talked about this a lot as well. Im going to say it. There is this desire that Kamala Harris win in a landslide to erase doubt. What i want to tell you as an exrepublican is that the doubt is part of the plot for them. Theres no there wont be any more credible win for vice press harris. I wonder how you deal with having to sort of engineer a lieproof victory. We look at their commitment to lies. We look at their ability to go on cnn and say, we created the story. They are lying in front of cameras and then going back to the same cameras and admitting it was a Lie And Proceeding anyway. How do you deal with that level of audacity and that level of brazen lying in the context of an election that hasnt happened yet . Look, my job is not to lieproof victory. Thats impossible. Theres no amount of votes that would lieproof a victory. Donald trump said after 2020, he said he won six states he lost. Pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, arizona, nevada and georgia, those were all State Ez lost, all states he went to court and said he won and insisted on since then. Since that time, he has added to that list of states he says he won, he added minnesota, a state he lost by 7 , new jersey, a state he lost by double digits and he said he believes the votes were counted inaccurately, he won in california, which is preposterous. I think some member of the media who interviews Donald Trump should ask him to acknowledge which state he thinks he did lose. I bet his answer is, there isnt one. He is going to insist he won every state. Lieproofing a victory is not possible. I want Kamala Harris to win in a landslide because it will make governing better. Theres something about mandates that are important for governing. In terms of the election, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump play by the same set of rules and those rules are what they are about the Electoral College and the like. I believe she will win that election. She will win the popular vote. I think she will win overall. The thing people need to know is democrats are ready to defend that victory. We are ready to make sure voters can vote and make sure their votes count. Madam secretary, i sincerely worry about what you have described here on this show, 1,000 Death Threats since september. I applaud you for doing your job in that environment. Nobody should have to. I would implore you to come back if we can be of any service in shining a light on the environment in which you are doing this extraordinarily important work. Mark, i know the Threat Environment under which you do your job. Donald trump tweets about it. To both of you to be continued. We will have this conversation every day if we must. Thank you for starting us off today. They cannot stop themselves. They have no impulse control. Another republican is out with a swipe at Vice President Kamala Harris family, which looks like a lot of our families. We will show it to you and talk about this next. The Trump Campaign alienating the female voters that remain in their column. We will bring you that story next. Missing out on the things you love because of asthma . Get back to better breathing with fasenra, an Addon Treatment for Eosinophilic Asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. Fasenra is not for sudden Breathing Problems or other eosinophilic conditions. Allergic reactions may occur. Dont stop your Asthma Treatments without talking with your doctor. Tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. Headache and Sore Throat may occur. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Step back out there with fasenra. Ask your doctor if its right for you. The future is not just going to happen. You have to make it. And if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea, and now becomes the future where you grew a dream into a reality. The all new godaddy airo. Put your business online in minutes with the power of ai. Vo Restaurant bread. Put your business online in minutes stale policies. No cheddar. Cheddar bay 2024 is here to clean up the crumbs. Come in now for the chance to win four years of free red lobster. Because one bite can unite all parties, at least for dinner. This one is for you. Not only do my kids serve as a permanent reminder of what is important, they keep me humble. Walk into a room like this where people cheer when you step on the stage and you think for a second you are special. Then you go home and your kids remind you very quickly you are actually not that big of a deal. Ours pretty good at it. My kids keep me humble. Unfortunately, Kamala Harris doesnt have anything keeping her humble. That is who she is. That was Sara Huckabee sanders, displaying Casual Ugliness of the attacks on Vice President Kamala Harris which never cease to take your breath away. Shes the governor of arkansas now. She used her platform, privilege of being an elected official, to attack not just Vice President Kamala Harris not being humble but to say the reason shes not humble is because she didnt give birth and she doesnt have biological children. Despite the fact shes a parent. Shes a parent to Cole And Emma emhoff. That casual cruelty is a hallmark, its what you would expect from sarah Huckabee Sanders. Championed repealing Child Protection laws. She was the White House press secretary. It reflects a broader brand of cruelty of the Republican Party which seems intent on alienating voters with modern families or blended families or people without children and all Those Childless Cat Ladies In Pursuit of levying these attacks at Vice President harris. Doug Emhoffemhoffs Exwife Lea the defense of Kamala Harris. She wrote this. Cole and ella keep us inspired to make the world a better place. I do it through storytelling. Kamala harris has sent her career working for the people, all families. That keeps you pretty humble. Joining our conversation, former assistant u. S. Attorney and president of the Leadership Conference on civil and human rights, maia wylie. Joining us, host of the fast podcast, Molly Jeong fast is here. A line has to be drown around picking and choosing which families are the right families. This attack on modern families, which make up the majority of the families that people are in or have made, it must be working somewhere for someone. You would think those are the kind of voters they would have locked up. This is a sign of political desperation to me. Yeah. I agree with you 100 . I find it so offensive. If you cant confront your opposing candidate on policy, you attack them personally, and you attack a woman like Kamala Harris i will tell you a personal story when i first had contact with Kamala Harris. As a sitting senator. I was a professor at the New School as a senior Vice President there. I had been asked by the New School to deliver the convocation to the entering first year class. I did so. In my convoy vocation speech, its about how we be a we and not an us them. I come off the stage and i get a text. The text is from senator Kamala Harris who i have not met. I know her sister. I assume thats how they got my number. She said, that was a great job. She was there for her stepchilds first day of college. Tell me what a parent is and i will tell you its the person who shows up because its the right thing to do for the person you want to support whether you gave birth to that child or not. Its the person who says, im going to care and understand even if i have not had a child biologically, that Childcare Costs are a top expense that families are facing. You know what . If your childcare provider, you are probably earning 27,000 a year. In most major cities, thats your rent. You are probably a mother yourself. Saying, what can i do as a leader about that . She didnt have to have biological children to do it. To your point, so many of us have people we love who we did not give birth to as women who we care about and who we will show up for and we will vote for. That includes the young women we hope can live and survive an unexpected pregnancy and make a choice for themselves. If they have sewn up a christian nationalist extremist base, so if you cant come up with a way to express compassion for others, all you can do is cling to your extremism. To that point, it is a line that runs through it. Right . Sometimes they dont seem connected. J. D. Vance saying in an interview that women should stay in marriages even if they are violent. Sarah Huckabee Sanders saying Kamala Harris couldnt be humble because she didnt have kids. She does have kids. At some point it stops being about their ugliness and it stops being about them and it becomes about us. This isnt just offensive to women who hear that and view it as some deliberate attempt at otherness. Its offensive to men. Its offensive to anyone. Its offensive to a stepkid. It is the kind of intolerance that at some point stops being about maga and starts being about the rest of us and what are we going to do in response . I would say, its a narrow vision of what a woman is. Of what you can be in this world. You have to have biological children. That, i think, is very antifeminist. You have to be a certain way in order to be a woman. I would also add that its a little ironic, because this is the party thats made it less safe to be pregnant, that refuses to codify ivf, that refuses they are against the care economy, which harris talks so much about. They are not for early childhood stuff. A lot of the republicans governors have rejected federal funding for me meals for school kids. They are very im not going to call the entire party this, but it seems very antifamily and yet you are telling us that women to be women they must have biological children. Its unbelievable. Theres so much more to get to, including your beautiful new book. We will show this. No one is going anywhere. We will be right back. No one ise we will be right back. What the biggest companies deliver is exceptional customer experience. What makes it possible is unmatched Connectivity And 5g solutions from tmobile for business. Tmobile connects 100,000 Delta Airlines employees. 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I found that comment to be actually offensive. I dont know what more to say. Im disappointed in sarah saying that. I have to defend somebody who is a stepmom. Its a tough job. Reward that and speak of that in a high tone. Sarah Huckabee Sanders lost the senior Trump Advisor talking about the indefensible cruelty of what they said about stepparents, by saying Kamala Harris couldnt be a humble person because she hasnt given birth. We are back with maya and molly. Maya, i feel like in the last 49 days, theres not a lot to reveal thats new about Donald Trump. You do get indications of where the campaigns are. I have asked Vaughn Hillyard this question, whats the project . Its clear melania is out again. Shes beauiful and celebrating her naked, beautiful body. I applaud her right do it. I find it fascinating with 49 days to go, that was the message that the spouse of the Candidate Thought was most central. Let me show you some of that. Are we no longer able to appreciate the beauty of the Human Body . Throughout history, master artists have revered the human shape, evoking profound emotions and admiration. We should honor our bodies and embrace the timeless tradition of using art as a powerful means of selfexpression. I dont know i got all that. Yes, shes beautiful. I guess in her view shes as beautiful as the sculptures. You go, girl. Your husband is on the ballot. In your husbands view, this election is everything. He says the country ends and this is what i mean, sarah, can you what are they doing . It is impossible to imagine that that happened would the his approval. I mean, the campaigns approval. Maybe . Maybe . Who Knows. Who Knows. But its a highly edited developed ad. This is not something she whipped together to put up herself. The only reason im saying that, because i agree with you. Melania trump should be able to be who she wants to be. Do what she wants to do and that includes taking her clothes off. No judgment there on her. But i dont think id ever put clothes on if i looked like right . If were at the naked part of the show, i mean, im so happy to hear that message but, again, you are the spouse of the candidate who is running on the message that the country ends in 49 days and thats what you did today. But dont you think i Cant Help but watch that and think that this was some very ineffective, strange, weird attempt to project a more modern sense of understanding who women are and what they should and should not be able to do. To get back to people, Sarah Huckabee said . Yes. Like, look, were not all like crazy extremists. You have to give birth but you have to be beautiful. You have to be naked, be beautiful and have naked pictures taken of yourself. Oh, by the way, the whole question of what mothering means, has there ever was there any Talk Or Examination about what kind of stepmother Melania Trump is . I only say that i dont think its a legitimate line of inquiry, but it goes back to the double standards here, which we were talking about off camera. Which is the way the dialogue develops about who harris is or isnt and what she does or doesnt do, that never maps to the other side. That never says, well, okay, i dont think this is really the most important discussion to have, but if were going to have it about one candidate, shouldnt we be having it about both . Look. Its never too late to hold ourselves as media up for scrutiny. Anyone who errs or covers what sarah Huckabee Sanders said should note that to ivanka, don jr. , tiffany eric. And eric. And her son is posting some pretty offensive stuff on social media, by the way. But i would just add that, look, this is a party that wants to ban books, right . They want to ban books. The so this cannot be taken in a vacuum. To say that the media is a somehow the villain. You are the wife of the president Ial Cab date. They want to ban books. Certainly things you Cant Teach Lgbtq stuff. You Cant Teach remember, they were at war with, you know, black history. I mean still are. Still are. This is pretty wild stuff. And very, very out of the mainstream. To say that somehow its the medias fault that she is getting shamed for, you know, her naked body is kind of wild. And i would say like theyre just its not even that it seems like theyre not working together, its like they are running in two different earths, right . Earth 1, earth 2. Earth 1, hes running on this very socially far right agenda. Earth 2, shes like why is the media being mean to me about my naked photos. Which i actually missed that. Your book is out now. We have to have you out for a whole i started reading it during the break. Its perfect. Well have you back for a whole segment. Its remember, you are a wiley. It is out right now. Another break for us. Well be right back. Citis industry leading global payments solutions help their clients move money Around The World seamlessly in over 180 countries. And help a partner like the World Food Programme as they provide more than food to people in need. Together, citi and the World Food Programme empower families across the globe. Right now across the u. S. , people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. Yes, libraries. We all have a first Amendment Right to read and learn different viewpoints. Thats why every book belongs on the shelf. Yet Book Banning in the u. S. Is worse than ive ever seen. Its people in power who want to control everything. Well, i say no to censorship. And i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. If you do too, please join us in supporting the American Civil Liberties Union today. For over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. Including the right to read all manner of books. So please call or go online to myaclu. Org. For just 19 a month, only 0. 63 a day. You can become a guardian of Liberty And Help protect all the rights promised to us by the u. S. Constitution. Make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. This is a clear violation of Free Speech. Thats why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. It is so important now more than ever. So please call or go to myaclu. Org and become an Aclu Guardian of liberty, for just 19 a month. Use your Credit Card and youll get this special we the People Tshirt and more to show youre helping to protect the rights of all people. The aclu is in all 50 states, d. C. And Puerto Rico defending our first Amendment Right of Free Speech and all of your constitutional rights. Because we the people, means all of us. So please, call or, go online to myaclu. Org today. Annouannouncing. Continues to bring prices down. The fed will lower. The next hour. Car insurance so you only pay for what you need. Isnt that what you just did . Service stand back im going to show ya, how doug and limu roll, yeah you know you got to live it, if you want to win. [bump] Time Out only pay for what you need. Liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. [introspective music] recipes. Recipes that are more than their ingredients. [smoke alarm] recipes written by hand and lost to time. Can now be analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. Preserving memories and helping to write new ones. Its good to get some fresh air. Fresh air . Hi guys bill, you look great now that i have inspire, im free from struggling with the mask and the hose. Inspire . Inspire is a Sleep Apnea Treatment that works inside my body with a click of this button. No mask no hose just sleep. Give me this thing. Where are you going . Im going to get inspire. Inspire. Sleep apnea innovation. Learn more and view important Safety Information at inspiresleep. Com. What is your message to j. D. Vance and former President Trump . Do you support them as the republican ticket. I do. What is your advice to them about what to do with these allegations about eating pets in springfield that they keep repeating . Theyre very hurtful. Its very hurtful to people. People in springfield. Hurt full to the asians who are working every day. I talk to some of their employees. I had them over for breakfast the other day, their employer. Excuse me. They said they work very hard. Theyre very focused. Theyre family oriented. Its hurtful for them, very, very much. Some of them are afraid. Its 5 00 in New York. As if what was happening to the people of springfield, ohio, wasnt an even lasting enough stain on our Nations Dignity and standing in the world, tonight new insight into the deep, dark depths of that humiliation, that disgrace, that manufactured, admittedly false controversy that has ended up up ending the lives of innocent people living and working in ohio because for the first time this afternoon the blanks are nearly all filled in. The rumors and the lies of haitian families eating pets, the Trump Campaign manufactured the match, Lit The Match and poured gasoline on the fire. The Wall Street Journal reports this on the morning of September 9th springfield City Manager was questioned by a staffer for j. D. Vance about whether there was any truth to the bizarre rumors about haitian immigrants and pets. From that reporting, quote, he asked point blank, are the rumors true of pets being taken and eaten . I recalled, heck. I told him no. There was no verifiable evidence or reports to show this was true. I told them these claims were baseless, end quote. By then j. D. Vance had already posted about the rumors to his 1. 9 million followers on x. He cut the post up and repeated an even more insistent version of the claim the next morning and that Night Trump shared the baseless rumor with 67 Million americans during the president ial debate on the Debate Stage. Now dozens of School Closures and Bomb Threats later the Trump Campaign is being asked to explain itself. This afternoon in response to the Wall Street Journals Story A Spokesperson told Nbc News this, quote, Senator Vance has received countless messages from residents of springfield on the disastrous effects of Kamala Harriss Immigration Policies and that they have created for their hometown. A shortage of affordable housing, stressed public resources, declining Public Safety and spikes in communicable disease. It is shameful that the media is ignoring these real concerns while purposely twisting Senator Vances words. Not much of an apology. Well note the statement made no denial that the Wall Street Journal reporting is correct, and to stop right here for a second. Donald trump didnt say any of those things on the Debate Stage. He said, quote, theyre eating the dogs. Theyre eating the cats. This afternoon in raleigh, north carolina, j. D. Vance debuted a new line of attack against legal immigrants living there legally. In the town of springfield, ohio, which i am honored to represent, weve heard from a number of residents that there are certain parts of town where they wont even drive because the illegal immigrants who have come in have made it unsafe to be on the roads. Again, vast majority of them are here legally, theyre all here legally. Its important to remember the way Donald Trump has described immigrants though as, quote, poisoning the blood of our country or calling his domestic opponents, quote, vermen. Well get further into how this reads out of a page of an Autocrats Playbook and what that could portend should trump prevail in november. First, as we approach The End of a Life Cycle for a lie of Donald Trump, the so what if its fake chapter of it all, which always comes, remember that like so many other contrived controversies, this was not a victimless endeavor. There are people, childrens lives today, right now as were on the air irrevocably changed because Donald Trump and j. D. Vance willingly wanted to lie about immigrants. Its where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Taylor popolarsdid i botch that again . I know weve had that before. No, you got it. Did i get it . We follow you so closely. Great to have you back on another huge story. You spent five years covering ohio politics and ohio politicians, importantly traveled with j. D. Vance the last few days. Also joining us editor in large for the 19, host of the amendment, Erin Haynes is here. In John Heilman Fashion he will fly into the studio. Hes host of the podcast in poll particular for puc. Taylor, take me through what j. D. Vance has done to his campaign and to the people, more importantly, of springfield, ohio. Well, nicole, i think whats really interesting about this story is there are two things to remember. Vance is obviously Donald Trumps Vice President ial running mate. Hes traveling the country as the gop Vice President ial nominee. He still also is the junior senator from ohio. These are his constituents. Everybody whos involved in the community at springfield now over the course of the last eight or nine days since vance started to make reference to these reported claims that local and State Officials say are faceless, to Donald Trump saying it at the debate, neither Vance Nor Trump have gone to springfield. Vance even said when we were following him on the Trail Yesterday in michigan and wisconsin, he wants to go at some point but he acknowledges that traveling in with a large secret Service Deal and motorcade might not help out. The local mayor has said he doesnt want the major candidates to show up because there are so many strains on the community. Vance has continued to amplify these claims and continued to insist hes hearing from constituents that are presenting him with evidence. His office has not been able to present evidence or the campaign. When i got to speak with him yesterday when we were on the tarmac in michigan, i asked him as a senator of this state, have you been briefed . Have you received data . Have you received intelligence from people you represent in ohio to confirm where the Bomb Threats were coming from, to confirm any evidence there . And he wouldnt directly answer. He instead acknowledged that as governor Mike Dewine said earlier this week, that most of the Bomb Threats came from overseas, not all of them, but most of them, and the Trump And Vance campaign feels that because that happened and most of them were overseas that they cant in any way be associated with them. Its important to point out these threats did not start until after President Trump talked about them on the Debate Stage which was one day after Senator Vance started to bring them up. Thankfully the Bomb Threats have been hoaxes. It has really disrupted the community and its prompted the state to bring in a lot of resources to try to restore normalcy. Taylor, theres so much to unpack in what youve just laid out. Let me come to you on the Wall Street Journal reporting that j. D. Vance was told from the outset that this was a lie and the woman whose cat had gone missing found the cat in the basement so there were never any pets missing. There were never any pets who Haitian Immigrants Living In Springfield and working in springfield, ohio, had eaten and j. D. Vance knew that the whole time. Yeah. Just track that for me. The Wall Street Journal report was very thorough. It came out overnight, and yesterday when i had the chance to speak with vance i asked him directly. I said, the republican mayor of springfield, the republican governor of ohio, local State Police and even the Ohio Department of natural resources said we have no evidence to support these claims. I said to him, what are you basing these off of . What he told me in essence is his office continues to hear from people in ohio who are making these claims. He told me, he wants to believe them, even if theyre lying to him, he chooses to believe them over the press and other officials because he views theres some seriousness to these claims. At the same time, nicole, there is a legitimate story about the Struggles Springfield has been facing. The schooling system, the local medical facilities, even traffic patterns have been disrupted by this influx. Its not a large community, about 60,000 people before the migrants showed up. Vance argues there should be more reporting on that. Local journalists including my spectrum colleagues have covered that. But then this obviously ballooned when they started pushing these unfounded claims. He still wont point to direct evidence just saying he keeps hearing it from people. Theres a dozen claims hes heard from folks and according to them ten are verifiable and confirmable. He even told me yesterday that Yesterday Morning his office heard from somebody who was speaking to a member of the press. He said, im not going to tell you who that is but they were confirming. He says hes going to press forward because according to him he keeps hearing from his constituents. So he has ten officials im sorry to belabor the point. I want to understand that. The in j. D. Vances mind he has ten officials who will talk to only j. D. Vance but not the republican Trump Backing Governor or the republican trump backing City Manager . Just him . Thats where its a little tough. I should clarify, not ten officials. Hes saying his office has heard from ten people. Ten dead pets. 12 people 12 dead pets . What he claims are verifiable and confirmed claims. His office or the campaign has not presented evidence of that. As you eluded to, the city officials from the City Manager, republican mayor to the ohio governor say they have no track record. Local police have gone back through 11 months of 911 calls and reports and havent been able to piece together what vance is continuing to claim. As the senator for that state much less the Republican Partys Vice President ial nominee, its pretty fascinating that he continues to lean into this and push into this despite the fact checking from the local officials on the ground. Do you have a dog or cat, taylor . I have a dog, her name is bonnie. If she went missing would you have pictures everywhere . Definitely. Are there any pictures of the ten allegedly missing cats or dogs . So we havent seen any. The Wall Street Journal report referred to a woman who had reported her cat missing and a reporter for the journal went and found her and she said, oh, after i thought the cat was missing, the cat ended up being in the basement, as you highlighted earlier. She even apologized to her haitian neighbors who she suspected had taken the cat. Thats about the extent of the proof. I of course with every other Journalist Welcome Vance and the campaign to bring this. If its happening, its serious. They are claiming these claims are there. Vance even told us when we were in wisconsin another reporter asked him, isnt it up to you to verify what youre going to broadcast because you have such a big megaphone . His response was that he thinks the media should fact check what the residents of springfield are saying eluding to the fact he doesnt feel like he has to verify stuff before he broadcasts it. Erin haynes, to quote bill barr, there are no photos of the dead pets because its bullshit. There arent any dead pets. A Vance Spokesperson on tuesday provided the Wall Street Journal with the Police Report in which a resident had claimed her pet might have been taken by haitian neighbors but when a Report Jer went to anna kilgores house tuesday, she said her cat, miss sassy, which went missing in late august, actually returned a few days later, found safe in her own basement. J. D. Vance for his part admitted to Dana Bash that he created this story to get the press to talk about it. I guess to taylors reporting, erin, we might be talking about the strains on a community and schools and the public services if he hadnt told a lie. Its the lie that j. D. Vance told that has us focused on the absence of any any evidence of what Donald Trump said, theyre, quote, eating the dogs, theyre eating the cats. Absolutely. Thats what you need to be focused on, not the racist hoax. Miss sassy didnt ask to be a part of it neither did the rest of the american electorate. Here we are having to disprove, you know, Law Enforcement resources, resources that are having to be spent on this hoax because of Election Smearing . We absolutely should be pointing out that now erin, were going to fix your audio so we dont miss a word. This conversation is too important. John heilman is here. I feel like its important for us not to get tired, right . I mean, this is so tiring and tiresome, the lies. Its beyond tiring. But there are real people that live in springfield. You dont have the haitian community that lives there is scared. I mean, the Elementary School was targeted. So every family with a child in Elementary School is scared this week. I want you to ive been thinking about this a lot and trying to think about what a decent, Fantastical Analogy would be, right . We live in New York city. Theres a homeless issue here, its a real issue. We have homeless people. Strains on public service, humanitarian. Issues related to public house, related to housing. Mental health. Mental health. Economic issues. All kinds of things, right . If the mayor of the city held a Press Conference and announced that there had been some reports from soho where i live about Cannibalistic Humanoid Dwellers coming out of the sewer eating homeless people, the press said, thats incredible. Thats an insane story. Can you show us some evidence of that . If the mayor said, i dont know if its true or not. Some people called and said that. Were highlighting the homeless problem, thats a way to get you to pay attention. In any other generation, you would think the mayor was out of his mind and owe would be on a are oneway Fast Train to getting thrown out of office in the next election. That would be a ludicrous thing, that premise that its somehow, a, its okay to make up a story. In that case, he wouldnt be defaming there wouldnt be the racist overlay of it because you wouldnt be blaming some specific community of nonwhite individuals but you would still say thats wildly irresponsible, totally unjustifiable and theres no rational argument for it, right . You would say that the mayor had lost his mind. I just keep coming back to that because that is kind of what j. D. Vance is saying. Its fine if we lie about this and then we put the burden on the press to prove a thing that he Knows isnt true. I mean, its almost the definition of Gas Lighting. If the press was doing its job, they would find these people, even though he Knows theyre not real and hes kind of conceding that hes making this all up. Yeah. But were past that point in the story. Heres the point when the press goes and covers the lie, he then accuses the press of disrupting the community and harassing the people in the city. I mean, its there will be Case Studies written on this some day about what the textbook gaslighting conspiracy thee ri maga moment. In a weird way its incredible its coming from j. D. Vance and not trump. Trump has propagated it. The hes the core of the sickness, j. D. Vance. I dont think i dont make endorsements in races or whatever. If you are a citizen of the state of ohio right now, theres only one recourse for this, which is this kind of behavior is so radically irresponsible from the elected representative of the state of ohio that there should be one recourse here, when he comes up for reelection again, if he has to face reelection as a senator in the state of ohio, i hope people will remember this and factor it into their calculations. He cared so little that he was willing to engage in this outrageous, outlandish and horrifying act of Gas Lighting on this kind of intergalactic scale. Well, i mean, i think the other piece of it is that it illustrates i mean, this story has everything about this moment because Mike Dewine, the governor, is talking about the residents. Sure. Theyre his constituents. Sure. All he can say to that was chris cuomo. All he could say to him was hes hurt them. Theyre your Con Stiet went. In a traditional way being an elected official is about protecting your citizens. Hes failed at the most foundational piece of being an elected official. Hes letting another person hurt his constituents. He failed to protect them from Donald Trump. Its so mind boggling on so many different levels. People want to praise Mike Dewine. Abject failure. I totally agree. Its funny that the bar is so low in terms of this is another way in which the normalization of trump is such a problem in this world. In any other world, thats what you would focus on. You would say, this is cause for recall for governor, you know . Hes not doing his job at all, but the bar is so low that just telling the truth that there arent a bunch of haitian Pet Eaters in springfield, ohio, thats considered a mark of courage in the Republican Party now, if you are willing to say something basic and true. Everyone gets treated on a curve. Erin haynes, we had technical issues. Well get those addressed before we talk to you again. Taylor, were so grateful that you are on the beat and covering the politicians in ohio who need coverage from a journalist like yourself. Thank you for starting us off. Thank you for invoking bonnie. There she is. The bonnie. Ah. She loves carrying sticks around. I love it. Dont they all . John sticks around a little bit longer. Well try to work some Heilman Family Dog photos in as well. When we come back, how Donald Trump and j. D. Vances ongoing attacks against the haitian Community Living in springfield, ohio, are not simply false, theyre straight out of an authoritarians playbook. Tim snider has seen this move from Auto Kratz Around The World. Hes been warning us where were heading for years. Now he has a powerful book out called On Freedom. Vice president Kamala Harris broadening her coalition with The Endorsements from more than 100 former republican National Security officials who are calling Donald Trump, quote, unfit to serve. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Ok yall we got ten orders coming in. Big orders starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant. Thats a different story. I couldnt slow down. We were starting a business from the ground up. People were showing up left and right. And so did our business needs. The Chase Ink Card made it easy. When you go for something big like this, your kids see that. And they believe they can do the same. Earn unlimited 1. 5 cash back on every purchase with the Chase Ink Business unlimited card from chase for business. Make more of whats yours. 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Just a few easy moves. Did somebody say easy moves . Oh no. No, i was talking about moving your internet. This will move the internet. Ooh, ooh. Lets keep it professional. Professional dancers ok stay connected during your move with the best in home wifi. Easily transfer your services in the xfinity app. Bring on the good stuff. Americans need to understand that they have to take trump both seriously and literally. He has said what he wants to do. He and his allies with project 2025, his desire to be a dictator, at least on day one. All of that is in the public record. Were not going back to the, you know, romance with dictators that puts, you know, innocent lives at Risk And Americas security in danger. We cant go back and give this very dangerous man another chance to do harm to our country and the world. That Call To Action for americans to take Donald Trump, as she said, both seriously and literally, has never felt more urgent, particularly given the ongoing smears and threats against haitian immigrants in springfield, ohio, by the two men atop the republican ticket. Two men who are running on their elaborate plans for deporting massive numbers of immigrants, even immigrants who are in this country legally like the haitian residents of springfield, ohio. Make no mistake, its not new. It is a deep cut from the dictators playbook. By putin, xi jinping, Victor Orban and dictators past and present targeting immigrants and immigrant communities is a Goto Movie specially when the chips are down, which is why taking trump both seriously and literally right now, is so important, because the world has seen this movie before and we know how it ends if they prevail. No one Knows the stakes better than our next guest. Yale historian, tim snider, whose First Book On Tyranny is an essential Users Guide to surviving authoritarianism. Now hes out with a new book On Freedom which New York times calls, quote, a companion to the earlier book, On Tyranny. In it tim snyder offers this warning. Quote, we find ourselves at a turning point. Whether we will be free will depend on us, not just on what we do, but on why we do it, our ideals. Tim snyder joins us now. You know the important role you and On Tyranny have played in our ability to understand and cover the events as they come at us fast and furious. And so while youre here, were going to talk about the book but i wanted to start by asking you about this flashpoint and these very real people being damaged by trumps lies about haitian immigrants and j. D. Vances refusal to apologize or to turn down the heat on this community of children and families living and working in springfield, ohio. What what is it that we can do and what is this tactic about 49 days out from the election . Well, first of all, i just want to take your point that these are real people. You know, i grew up about 20 miles from there. I played basketball with kids from springfield. These are real people trying to live normal lives in medium sized cities and towns in owe hey owe, immigrant populations are really crucial to helping people live normal lives, have prosperous cities, have small businesses. Its part of the way ohio works. Doing this is a way to make ohio not work. If you are asking about the parallels, i think there are a couple of levels here. The most obvious one is the politics of us and then, where if you are on the hard right, if you are fascist, if you dont want to govern or have freedom, you pit your citizens one against the other as j. D. Vance is doing now, get them to destroy one another. The only kind of government thats left is to stir on one side against the other. Its pretty clear thats how j. D. Vance understands government. The newer thing here is the politics of total line. Its not that you are supposed to believe about the dogs and cats, youre supposed to not believe in anything. Youre supposed to believe that everybody is lying all the time and in that vacuum or in that total cynicism, then politicians like Trump And Vance can impose themselves because theyre the best liars or they control the spectacle. This is what they do in russia. What does it say about the Success Or Failure of an effort toward authoritarianism, that this tactic is trotted out and defended and amplified by Trump And Vance 49 days out from the election . Is it a sign of political strength . I mean, it kind of feels to me like its the time of year, right . Its the autumn of the year that you can divide by four and, therefore, its the season of Trump Misinformation and russian disinformation and it happens efr four years on the dot. Every year you can divide by four. I dont think its a sign of either strength or weakness, i think its a sign of what they know how to do and a sign of what they will continue to do. We have to remember that trumps entire campaign takes place in the framework of a really Big Lie. The central notion of his campaign is that he never lost, that hes still really the president , that ordinary rules dont apply to him. Within that cavern of mendacity, you can have other stories like this one. This is how they will govern. This is how they function. I think its neither strength nor weakness, i think its normality from their point of view. We havent had a chance to speak to you since Vice President Kamala Harris became the democratic nominee, but i always like to ask you where in a slide or a lurch towards autocracy you view our country. I guess i want to ask you in the context of what her campaign is about and where things stand, where do you think we are in if terms of our risk . Well, im i mean, i dont have anything to do with the campaign. I can just say im happy that theyre talking about freedom. I think President Biden is right, that this is a race between democracy and tyranny. Even more fundamental than democracy is freedom. Believing in a democracy is believing in a people that can be free and making its own choices. I think there is a very good thing that has a new candidate that has a fresh message not just from the government doing bad things but also theyre edging towards this, freedom to. The thing that can bring us together is the idea of a future in which were more capable to do all of the various things that we want to be able to do. I think a politics of the future is the only way to answer a politics of us and them and politics of false nostalgia. Professor snyder, i wanted to follow up on that. Another way of framing it is this. You wrote On Tyranny we had an election, you were talking about every four years. We had a president ial election and we have to confront these questions, particularly acutely now. The fall of 2020 was a surreal time because of the pandemic. Donald trump was in office and had all of the powers of the presidency. In some respects hes more threatening now because its post January 6th. Can you compare how you felt about the state of the countries on the arc of autocracy. If you can cast your mind back to then versus now, are we stronger or weaker in trying to fight it off . Are we in a better or worse place than trying to fight it off . Were better. We understand more of the phenomena. Weve had more conversations like this about how these things work. In that way were stronger, but hes stronger in that he now like back then he was trying to make some money, stay in power. Now hes trying to stay out of prison. He wants to be in the White House until he dies. He wants to die in bed and hes strongly motivated. Bad things are going to happen in november whether he wins or not. Also back in the fall of 2020 we didnt have so many americans living inside this Big Lie which theyre doing now. Another reason hes stronger now than then, he has cadres. Thats different than 16 or 20. If he does come to power, things can change pretty quickly. Well be moving quickly into a politics of dysfunctionality. Everybody has to look up to a supposed strong man. Doing that in all of the chaos is the only way to get things done. Thats how i see it. Could not be more stark, more dire than what you just articulated. We want to turn to the vote. We have to 123450ek in a quick break. Well be right back. Nothing comes close to this place in the morning. Im so glad i can still come here. You see, i was diagnosed with obstructive hcm. And there were some days i was so short of breath. I thought id have to settle for never stepping foot on this trail again. I became great at making excuses. But i have people who count on me so i talked to my cardiologist. I said there must be more we can do for my symptoms. He told me about a medication called camzyos. He said camzyos works by targeting whats causing my obstructive hcm. So he prescribed it and im really glad he did. Camzyos is used to treat adults with symptomatic obstructive hcm. Camzyos may improve your symptoms and your ability to be active. Camzyos may cause serious Side Effects, including Heart Failure that can lead to death. A risk thats increased if you develop a serious infection or Irregular Heartbeat or when taking certain other medicines. So do not stop, start or change medicines or the dose without telling your healthcare provider. You must have echocardiograms before and during treatment. Seek help if you experience new or worsening symptoms of Heart Failure. Because of this risk, camzyos is only available through a restricted program. Before taking camzyos, tell your doctor about all of your medical conditions, including current or planned pregnancy. Today with camzyos, i dont lose my breath as often. My symptoms have improved, helping me go from expecting less to experiencing more. My name is mike. And this is my Camzyos Moment. Call your Cardiologist Today and see if a Camzyos Moment may be in your future too. Question. And see if a Camzyos Moment if you cant see whats behind all this, how do you already know, its jeep . Probably the same way you know if a trex is chasing a jeep wrangler. Is getting away. Yep or if it takes you places that make you say, woah. And their Hair Looks like this. Or someone says, the doors come off. Then you just know what it was. What it is. And what it always will be. Because when youre an original, theres only one. If we give up on the idea of truth, then we cant be free. In order to be free we have to realize Theres Truth and we have to struggle with ourselves to be selfcritical. We have to work to understand the perspectives of others. Thats what a democracy is going to be about. If we give up on truth, as Trump And Vance would really like for us to do, we have no way to defend ourselves against power. Truth is the last resort in defending yourself against power. If we give way to spectacle, those who have Wealth Or Power already are always going to win in The End. Were seeing both with what Trump And Vance are doing now, were seeing how all of reality could look later on. Were also getting the suggestion of how you fight back, which is by believing there is such a thing such as truth. Creating institutions like local journalism, for example, that can help us out. Tim, your first page of On Tyranny is something i bring to work every day and constantly questioning, what are we giving away without being asked to. The what from On Freedom which feels as profound and perhaps even more deeply personal do you want us to carry with us as we go about trying to cover this moment in our country and in our politics . Thank you for that. On freedom is about what it is we should have and how we can do the right things. Im trying to claim the word freedom, which we use for a much bigger, brighter, positive idea and that is that Freedom And Government go together. Things can go really badly, and they might, but they dont have to avoid being bad. We can actually have a much better future than we think. If we understand freedom rightly as a reason to cooperate, as a way to govern towards the future. The future can be very much better than we can imagine right now. The present moment is dark and risky. I think its also full of promise. Our national commitment to freedom, if we understand it the right way, can open things up so that all of us can have much better lives. Thats the thing we begin in the book. There is such an obvious intersection. What Harriss Campaign is about. Do you see the reaction to her and her candidacy. She assembled. Using it a few years ago. She uses the word. I find it hard that she and her team are trying hard to turn the conversation towards the future which is better and more joyous. Fight cynicism with cynicism. Youre going to lose because the other side is better at that stuff. Its nice to work together. On the basis of true understanding to the world, you can bring better Value Sets together. New ways to do things. Your actions as an example. What about you . Are you optimistic that the things that allow for a free press to exist in this country, theres only one candidate running on those things, right . Donald trump has for years one of the most consistent things he believes, people like us are enemies of the people. Are you encouraged this is catching on with a very diverse, ideologically speaking thing. I think im like tim snyder a bit. I dont know how at this moment theres no question Kamala Harris is performing and catching all of the wire. The race is just still too close and ive been doing this for 30 years. All of these trends for a long time. I am like a lot of voters. What weve seen from Donald Trump, the race could be this close. It has focused On Freedom. There are tens of millions of people in the country, hundreds of millions potentially, hao will who dont care. It would tear us down in a heartbeat. The hope i find on one side is matched equally by the disheartening matter. We have clarity. Tim snyder, your books, your insights are such a gift. We are so grateful to have you here. Tims new book is called On Freedom. Its out right now. Another large number of republican officials out today with endorsement of Kamala Harris. That story is next. The Darkness Of Bipolar Depression made me feel like life was moving on without me. Then i found a chance to let in the lyte. discover caplyta. 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And they warn, quote, we firmly oppose the election of Donald Trump. As president , he promoted daily chaos in government, he praised our enemies and undermined our allies, politicized the military and disparaged our veterans. He prioritized his personal interest above american interests, and betrayed values. Donald trumps susceptibility to flat Ri And Manipulation by vladimir Putin And Xi jinping, unusual affinity for authoritarian leaders and chaotic National Security Decision Making are dangerous qualities. He is unfit to serve again as president or, indeed, in any office of public trust. Were back with john heilman. So i wont get ahead of your reaction. The ragan alumnae had endorsed the National Security. I feel so much more comfortable. Its behind her if the numbers are a little bit better. Biden was in 2020 and the lead he had on Donald Trump. I trust the polls and we know that the Electoral College is tilted towards republicans. We know there is a structural advantage and the state of pennsylvania, she had a really good poll there the other day. No one in democratic politics and Understanding Pennsylvania and how hard it is to get there with that state. It doesnt feel comfortable there. Everybody has a not in their stomach about pennsylvania and for the sake of the country, i would not like to have a knot in my country on that. Can i put you on the spot. Sure. Really . I guess. I said i that would be naked too if i looked like Milania Trump so what else could go wrong. You do not speak for this person or have insight about this person but there soenl Run Republican left in the country. I think all of The Endorsements are good. Momentum is good. I dont think there is that much suburban republicans who are soft republicans what are still undecided who are swayed by a bunch of people they naefr been swayed by before. And i think they would be swayed by george w. Bush. I knew him back then and i covered him. I dont understand i understand hes waiting for late october. But i dont understand how guys doesnt get in the game here and give an endorsement. Do you want me to try to explain it. Yeah. I want the whole thing. Yeah. If i had to try to look, i think as someone who gave speech after speech about democracy, as someone who saw election results come in that Around The World that he maybe didnt like or didnt think were good and said, no, they voted, this is who they voted for. If you believe in voting, if you believe in elections, if you believe in democracy, and your george w. Bush or your you or me, there is only one person on the ballot in november who believes in democracy. There is only one running on democracy and that is Kamala Harris. So on what i believe to be the most important thing to him, democracy, shes such a clear choice. I think part of him thinking that his time in the arena has come and ended and that it doesnt matter and that it might make it worse. That he so i dont want to be predictive. But i believe in terps of what i thought was most important to him and that is our democracy and the idea of democracy, that shes the only person running on the things that he told us he cared about most. I will say this, im not playing hide the ball here but i will say for the benefit of an audience, if the Harris Campaign had in in the bag, they would not have released it yet. If you had it, what you would do is release the Colin Powell Endorsement for obama, if he hasnt done it yet, it doesnt tell you anything. It is interesting because i think it is a big test for him. I have no idea what he will do either. John heilemann, thank you for spending the hour with us. Another break. Well be right back. Us. Another break. Well be right back. Along with clearer skin, skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. And is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. 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