Not the president of the world bank so take. Me seriously send us an email. On the welcome to all departed these really leadership wasted no time in painting Donald Trumps movement jerusalem as a historic landmark following of course within its own interpretation of history eleven appraised intensified even more after the United States had to invoke a veto against its own allies at the Security Council what does israel hope to gain from base isolating show of support to discuss that im now. And joined by down dyker fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs mr dyke its great to have you on the show thank you very much for your time thank you now let me know if you disagree and i bet you disagree about but i think the israeli authorities and first and foremost Prime Minister netanyahu very apparent in that efforts to all over south what donald trump really sad on the status of jerusalem netanyahu called that decision courageous and just at a time when the state department actually tried very hard to persuade everybody that there was absolutely nothing extraordinary in it why is israel are trying to package this an ounce meant for what its not well israel is trying to basically affirm what the American People have said for twenty two years and its unfortunate that so many people around the world. Russia by the way not included have gone against the will the American People as a matter of fact russia recognize the jerusalem already for a long time and certainly the western side of the city and the American People have said jerusalem is israels capital of the israeli people have known that everybody in this part of the world though everyone knows that jerusalem is israels capital not everyone publicly agrees with it but Everybody Knows another fact that if you want to have stability in the middle east you want to have security in the middle east recognize jerusalem and let the Israeli Security forces keep drus them safe for people of all religions but then mr decker i think there is a lot of space for you and us here because the state department had to issue several clarification stating that washington indeed wasnt trying to influence the talks on the status and the separation of jerusalem in any way but i think these railings are thirty days maybe very deliberately make it appear as if donald trump was speaking about jerusalem as a whole well said a look its very important to understand that the state department was saying something true in this particular case dont. From President Trump said that the status quo remember that word status quo thats a code word for keeping things as they are what the United States did was to correct an injustice and our and a and a a position that had been incorrect and biased against israel very much unfortunately at the behest of a israels a friends in europe which held they took they prejudged. The outcome to negotiations by trying to recognize or suggest that the palestinians should have a capital on the eastern side of the city thats a prejudgment of negotiations the state department saying no the negotiations have to come directly between the sides all the United States did was to fulfill the will of the American People and prime and president s before donald trump that for you know smart for political reasons decided to last minute to mobilize that six month waiver state Department Said no negotiations is what will determine the ultimate the ultimate status of israels of the of the holy city ill miss him mr jack as you can imagine i mean russia dont trade the words of the american president or even the American Congress as the word of god so its just the positional one country we by the way strongly opposed by pretty much everybody else in the International Community accept israel at the same time there is a whole body of International Agreements specifically stating and providing for the two state solution based on the nine hundred sixty seven borders before Israel Occupied East Jerusalem did you read some statements asked at fed diverging from that in any way accent or your facts are wrong unfortunately i mean theyre dead wrong theres no theres in oslo in the ostler agreements it says specifically that the final core issues including including settlements including the future of jerusalem and and final borders will be determined by negotiations u. N. Security Council Resolution two forty two is governed israeli palace. In diplomacy for decades since one thousand nine hundred sixty seven and it makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of israels requirement to return to the indefensible nine hundred sixty seven lines i care no no no where nowhere in the International Agreement it is stated that israel can have jerusalem only to the south can you not mention any specific document that would proclaim internationally that jerusalem is the sole capital off israel and no im not nothing else listen countries work according to their National Interests everybody who has eyeballs in their head knows that the jewish people have had three capitals three times have had a capital jerusalem three times in their history over the last thirty seven hundred years since one thousand nine hundred forty nine jerusalem has been the capital of israel every israeli knows that every man woman and child knows that every country that comes to visit to israel they come to jerusalem where our seat of government is located where all our government offices are located where most or government offices are located where our knesset or parliament is located so its very clear to to to everyone inside the country and i think around the world the drew slim is the capital of israel and thats the and thats just a fact of well its very clear to everybody and around the world including russia that israel certainly has a historic connection to drill so nobody is disputing that what they and the rest of the International Community is saying is that the palestinian historic connection to jerusalem is just as strong is israel going and you personally i are going to have that one palestinian historic connect in jerusalem youre talking about the palestinians in fact the jordanians would would curse you for that statement that the jordanians the hashemite kingdom has been the forty third direct descendant of the prophet according to the two to. Two the tradition of islam would of would ascribe the custodianship to the hashemite kingdom and King Abdullah the second and in fact that is the strategic that is the strategic amanda. For jordan in that is basically imbedded and sanctified internationally approved and. Im well familiar with your position on jordan but thankfully jordan is not the only member of the International Community here but rather than arguing about that let me ask you Something Else unlike a number of his predecessors including barack obama when he was a president ial candidate President Trump said nothing in this latest statement about the on divided nature of jerusalem if champ is indeed so courageous as you seem to believe why do you think he did in gold that far because he because he basically laid out a principle oksana which is the jerusalem is the capital of israel recognized by the United States of america at the will of the American People he didnt want to prejudice negotiations you know all of you guys in the International Media a lot of you guys have not done your homework and have basically trying to is to ascribe to President Trump things that he didnt say or he didnt mean he basically recognized it long overdue correction and the correction is a principle and the principle is the United States recognizes what every Israeli Government is recognize with every israeli man woman and child is recognized jerusalem the capital of israel what goes on after that in terms of negotiation well thats why the president said status quo secretary of state Rex Tillerson also said that the United States is not planning to move to see it from tel aviv to jerusalem until two thousand and twenty and that the American Government maps on the American Government maps jerusalem will still be not identified as israeli territory whats the point of calling a spade a spade without drawing it the side well the truth thats the very thats the very point that its a matter of principle but in terms of changing the technical aspects of or to operationalize the principle and change all the technical aspects that come after that thats something you have to ask the state department. Employees that handle the technical shifting of maps in the state department its its its a question of stages its a question of process and you probably know very well diplomacy doesnt happen overnight and the implementation of policy doesnt happen overnight and everybody you know the jewish people have waited have waited thirty seven have waited over two thousand years for this decision and they can wait a few more years for the implementation of the american decision the state Department Level you know very well that this announcement didnt sit well with a lot of people on independence fenian authorities here most notably palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas stating that he would no longer accept the United States as they meet east me a mediator and you know your i find your opinions on the palestinian sometimes pretty harsh but having sad that do you think this kind of alley nation is really in israels interest because if there would be somebody else some other power trying to mediate this process do you think that powell would have represented easy interests just as faithfully as the United States have always done well i can tell you exxon of this the palestinian leadership is headed by chairman Mahmoud Abbas is making a fatal mistake by trying to b. T. S. By trying to boycott in sanction the United States who gives them more money then then the combination of all the european states put together and that really goes for the arab states as well the United States has been the biggest purveyor in the biggest cheerleader for palestinian independence and together with israel by the way have done more to advance palestinian independence that anywhere than any other country in the world so the problem is that the Palestinian Authority is working against the will of its own people and i can tell you is somebody thats in the west. Every day talking to the Palestinian People the Palestinian Authority are have become a cynical terrorist supporting entity that is not working towards peace and that have no interest in at this point coming to the negotiating table negotiating with israel and this is against the will of its own people and if you were here in the areas of drusilla and gone through the west bank and have real conversations with palestinian professionals youd realize that theyre all saying Palestinian Authority and my what about us are working against the interest of their own people and thats why you could never get elected again if you went to elections opposite hamas well mr dyker as you know theyre a number of countries in the region dividend bishan of playing a role in the middle east Peace Process and one of them is turkey which already announced its help to move its Palestinian Embassy to is charles lane now president i dont is that far more ambitious and i think cunning figure than trump and i suspect he may be in power for a bit longer than trump if having trump siding more explicitly with these releases worth others like mr ed on rallying so eagerly and round the palestinians well i think coming is a very good word oksana for for president early on hes become the leader of the new neo ottoman Islamic Radical movement in the middle east and hes always been interested in lighting a fire underneath the stability of jerusalem its been very clear that president ordered one has been involved in supporting the Northern Islamic Movement in advancing the propaganda that al aksa mosque is in danger and he has been very much a participant in the supporter of all of the instability thats gone on by radical islamic groups on the temple mount the jordanians are not happy with him the egyptians are not happy with him the saudis are not happy with him and thats why the egyptian the saudi leaders didnt show up at the oh i see meeting last week in istanbul so he. He is not exactly the best friend or even close to being a good friend of the sunni arab established that there are no friends in the International Community let alone in your own region but we are talking about responsible politics and geopolitics what i ask you and i would not be. You know to paint a picture of mr add on the believe me i know he speaks about how do you do after all russia had its own very very difficult period of it turkey after turkish and on our own plane over syria thats not what i ask you about i ask you about why that it was responsible to take these kind of decision that does not bring any immediate benefits not israel nor to the United States that the United States does not even plan to follow up with indyk next coming years and by the nature of making that decision give all that fire give give all that rhetoric give all that thought are to. International figures like mr ed on do you think that was responsible i think its very responsible for the following reason if you want to have stability security in the middle east you had better be on the team that is being led by the israelis i think that you know the saudis the egyptians the jordanians all understand that the future of their security and the future of a stable middle east is located in the small state of israel nation state of the jewish people no the entire arab world understands that if this region is going to survive Iranian Regime subterfuge and subversion of the entire region its israel that they can depend on thats why theres been such a sea change in the geopolitics of this region and they know that president early one has played an unhelpful role with i think the russians know it as well as anybody else the United States those in the moderate arab countries know israel knows it so well israel wants to have Good Relationships with the. Good relations with turkey as weve had for decades well mr dr we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. Welcome back to wills apartment down dyker a fellow at the jerusalem for Public Affairs mr di could its clear that the many there may want to have good relations with many countries but they have the country that you most fundamentally have been focused on is saudi arabia Everybody Knows about the represented but in order for that to continue you will have to have not only the goodwill of the on the kings buy that it is in saudi arabia or in jordan for that matter but also the the goodwill of people in the arab street do you think the perception of israel on the arab street has improved as a result of the announcement made by mr trump well thats actually a good question we have to have to do some we have to do some polling to understand that the problem with the arab street has been that they have a very problematic relationship with a lot of their leaders and they look for any opportunity to come out into under the false under the fake banner of israel as some sort of a mini imperialist nation theyll try theyll hit the streets when theyre misplaced anger is really against their own leadership i mean thats the a. B. C. s of arab Public Policy that if thats if they can why is the only democracy in the middle east is so eager to cooperate with saudi arabia how ive made to believe the most repressive regime and the region you know you should ask a different question how come israel and russia have such a Good Relationship well i dont think you would claim that russia is their repressive dictatorship you may have criticism about russias political system but i hope you wouldnt argue that it is just as bad as in saudi arabia no im not arguing that. Very you know when you look at the side of the very close cooperation between israel and and president put in especially when it comes to turning back radical Islamic Radical islamic operatives where you have tens of millions of those in moscow alone you know what one could only look with satisfaction at the russian israeli relationship especially in the cooperation to the north of israel where you know where russia is playing a role a very substantial role in in syria and israel in israels cooperating with russia there are some that would say the russia has occupied has become the major superpower occupier of of syria today me and mr dyke are you know better than i did that russia is present in syria abby invitation of the un recognized different government and. They all care patients of the. Palestinian territories by by israel is not recognized by the International Community there is an important distinction here but let me again bring you back to the issue of. Establishing or at least fostering peace in the region because the recognition of the state of israel seventy years ago was based on the explicit condition that a jewish state would leave side by side to be in the palestinian state if that condition is not fulfilled and you concerned that the concept of a dedicated jewish state will lose its appeal but endangered National Community well first of all exxon i have to correct you your facts are wrong the partition plan of nov twenty ninth nine hundred forty seven call for the establishment of a jewish state and an arab state not a palestinian side an arab state and what it was meant is not the state of saudi arabia or not the state of jordan but i stayed in palestine can be agree on that at least no it was it was in called a state of palestine otherwise the Un Special Committee on palestine would have called it the state of palestine the palestinians themselves consider part themselves. Part of southern syria which you probably know is in there being an expert in the region the problem was that israel was attacked by six of its neighbors and look how far geopolitics has changed in the last seventy years where you have a total realignment in the middle east and all of the violence thats taken place in iraq in syria in lebanon in yemen what does that have to do with drusilla it has absolutely nothing to do with jerusalem the arab world is imploding because in large part the development of isis on the one him and the development of the Iranian Regime the race for nuclear and terrorist supremacy throughout the middle east well mr dicus he said ive been following this issue long enough to see the gradual decline in support for the two state solution i think israel may find itself the only party speaking in favor of this increasingly theoretical proposal more and more people in europe and russia in asia in latin america believe that if the two state solution is not possible then israel will have to do what democracies are required to do and that is to provide fair and equal treatment to all including those living in the occupied territories i you prepared to be a democracy not just a jewish democracy but democracy full stop no no you got it wrong we are prepared to be a jewish democracy and thats what we are you have to visit israel youre very welcome to come a host you host you through the Jerusalem Center and well show you what a real thriving liberal democracy is in the jewish form of democracy thats not only about lots of all soup or about its about real freedom and if you ask the million two hundred thousand Israeli Arabs that live in complete freedom freer than in any arab country in the middle east youll understand why you have that freedom car comes at a cost to your neighbors doe and if we also look at the way the israeli made of the military treats the palestinian civilian flag me tell you this is not a pretty picture and i icon from a country that has a long tradition of state violence but even for ours this is a lot when. You have when you see these really soldiers taking children when you see them hitting women thats not a pretty picture of jews democracy. Youre drinking the koolaid youre drinking the koolaid i know exactly referring to youre referring to the propaganda pictures that come out of the palestinian Mon News Agency listen i have children in the as you know in the israeli army and our army is the most moral army in the world bar none and its recognized in the west as being one of them probably an army that is limited constrained by International Law through self constraint more than any other army in the world and in just that you should know israel has Public Public diplomacy and Legal Officers attached to the tally and and and and and other major parts of the army so that it is in complete compliance with International Law and we have to be extra careful because we we live in a situation where there are the hamas and the p. L. O. Are trying and the fuck are trying to put us in the urban warfare and urban terrorism situation so we have to be particularly careful and i think we have we have only what to be proud of when it comes to relationships with the palestinian public and that and theres no surprise oxana as to why thousands upon thousands of palestinians are looking to become Israeli Citizens every year why is that happening i mr dyke i think israel is a beautiful country and you and your people can be really proud of what you have achieved im just saying that you are not treating your neighbors fairly and i think they sound injustice towards the palestinians actually growing not only within the middle but in the larger International Community you know that many europeans many people in asia in latin america believe that israel is not treating palestine and that this should speaking of palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas called for the General Assembly this week you know nine. Eighty eight point five percent of all palestinians live under palestinian jurisdiction military jurisdiction in area a and civil and administrate of jurisdiction an area be so thats ninety eight point five invited me to israel i on behalf of the palestinians invite you to visit a guy that won the west bank and then we can talk but i let i think well not be agree on that issue so lets go to the specific question that i ask you do you think the International Community this week is more likely to support to side with israel or get to palestine. If first of all there is no palestine theres something called a Palestinian Authority ok i didnt do my one called work again exactly but now its ok because you corrected yourself heres the point oksana the point is if the International Community wants terrorism violence and and death they can support a resolution that will make the p. L. O. And the hamas the custodians of your Russian Security in the russian compound in jerusalem if you want to have stability security and protection of the holy city for christians for jews and for muslims you the International Community have better side with israel and the United States because that is what israel in the United States and i believe many of its other allies really stand for is security democracy freedom and protection of the holy sites for everyone now if i were you or if i were in the International Community i certainly wouldnt put i wouldnt put my marbles with the p. L. O. And hamas defending my my National Interest particularly all of the millions and millions of dollars of russian Real Estate Interest in jerusalem well that we are not comparing the two systems here i think they had this is a deflection from it to be honest with you decide to flexion from what i have really ask you but since we have only a few minutes left even before the chance announcement the palestinians are trying to advance their cause with the help of Enter National and. And. Israel always felt that this now that you have been listed at. The help of the American Administration so eagerly do you have any arguments laught against the palestinians efforts to in International Eyes this issue you know the palestinians have used the United Nations as a weapon of war against the future of peace both for palestinians and israelis the Palestinian Authority actually mobilized the unesco to cancel out any connection between the jewish people and its own historic capital in jerusalem now if that isnt pure hypocrisy and if that doesnt cancel out any moral and ethical fiber of the United Nations i dont know how it will in nascar ok do you trust the un ad General Assembly do you trust u. N. General assembly as a neutral representation of the International Community voices on that well the United Nations General Assembly has passed more resolutions against the Democratic State of israel that it has against north korea and iran and syria combined so that you know it is a bubbling cauldron of hatred and and anti democracy and the Security Council it made a shameful decision in approving un Security Council resolution two three three four back in december of sixteen which is a which represented a new low point in a dear for the moral clarity or i should say cloudiness of the Security Council the United States unfortunately in an unprecedented move refused to under the Obama Administration its refused to veto that horrendously biased and i would even say antisemitic resolution against israel the Trump Administration is correcting that injustice well mr di k. Isnt it surprising that every time when you come. To a critical discussion on israel there is always an accusation and to some it isnt surfacing but anyway we have to leave it there i really appreciate your being on the show and being so forceful in defending your point of view and job curious please keep the conversation going in our social media pages and i hope to see you again same place same time here on all the part of the. Codependence policies to secure an absolute majority in council on elections as opposed close across the Region Council loaned us from the president as the vote the second round of the independence referendum. The us suffers another blow for its recognition of jerusalem as the capital of israel but says the un General Assembly overwhelmingly the move. The use of the veto obstructed the Security Council if you show you pulled out of the meeting to even think. Of the rights of palestinians america will put our embassy in jerusalem this is bullying and. In the photo over one hundred countries signaled the heavy pressure from washington is the u. S. President and ambassador both through
vimarsana.com © 2020. All Rights Reserved.