Has to consider a much broader impact what happens to society as factories move about what happens to the Public Health sector whether there is an Opioid Crisis do you think industrial democracies have managed globalization in their prosocial rather than corporate ways. They have not understood that the rules of the game have to be changed and we are still. Living with historical legacy stuff industrialization because if you look at the Social Security systems Education Systems most of the most a legal frameworks in the investment world all of them are designed for industrial face of technology and now were moving ahead and i think the problem is that our concepts are lacking behind what youre saying is that the government didnt do enough to create new jobs to compensate the schools to make sure that people are not taking drugs rather than you know taking measures to make sure that industrial capacity is kept where there is good tech and so typically explanation is that market is going to be a liberal democracies have failed to solve problems that they created i think its only half true and the problem is that they still believe that the methods they used after the 2nd world war which were very successful that the same methods are still applicable and producing on the applicable i mean no whats a scandalous one for example donald trump and many others say that we want to preserve certain jobs certain factories here even if it means that the the price of goods is higher we just want to people employed and that has everything a factor of the society why is that not a legitimate point of view i think the point is that if you look at the u. S. The number of people employed in the United States has grown in a massive way all the time and the fact is that the u. S. Has been able to take benefit from globalization but the fact is that certain sectors do not i born in a great deal in finland and if you look at whats going on in certain parts of America Today well. Ive seen that ive seen that im trying to explain to you that theres a political decisions because of technological change c. E. O. Also took measures to protect their grammarian secretary and i know you couldnt save this traps you couldnt do that when the horses were compensated by tractors. The impressive impact was that i often i hear that comparison often but im not sure we are quite at the same stage when such a major fact but lets look at it from the other perspective globalisation relies heavily and encourages over consumption and thats also a fact that has a major Environmental Impact that Environmental Impact is compounded by all the goods moving around and all the garbage being moved back miracleman to that. You know soviet union it had huge environmental problems in spite of the fact that it was completely. The only system or something to do you know what im trying to explain that its its really quite often we are putting globalization hat on everything globalization has to play but to take logical factors are much more fundamental and you cannot save jobs when radical change is going on but you can create jobs and thats the problem they have not been able to create a list and then others argue with that but im asking you why is it such a bad idea to think about localizing both production and consumption because that would take care of many things including environmental things that everybody so worried about trying to explain the rules when horses were compensated by truck to use it to totally different kind of Production System the same with globalization we have seen now this this Mass Movement of Production Capacity into asia Asian Countries but we have seen 1st indications that may be but maybe. People are going through it. It made me conclude that thinking about technological change we have seen now 1st impact of 3 printing for example i did guess decided to move production from one to germany by because of political reasons though because of the fact that makes it possible and im confident we are going to see a lot of changes which will lead to what you are saying more local local approach but that is thanks to took Technological Development you cannot fight against technological changes otherwise you will but i dont think anyone at this point is trying to discourage technology from developing the question is whether some of the Country Companies that still rely on the Old Industrial model and shift factories overseas. Are continuing to exploit that same model because in vietnam or in china they are employing people not robots right they are in china they are employing more and more robots so the production is moving human labor force is not that relevant anymore in chinese Production Model but it is very relevant in vietnamese so so this is what happens in the world where i have seen this happen in europe of certain production moved from from sweden to finland then from finland to spain and portugal and then from spain and portugal to china but you cannot imagine that the level of standard of living in finland can be as high as it is today if we had been keeping as saying there were. Just comparing the european Single Market to globalization and there are a little bit sarah. The biggest difference is the Single Market is heavily regulated there are some compensatory role models and content to tary mechanisms globalization is not do you think globalization as it stands today needs to be if not regulated than at least coordinated i think we need to come into force come and rules thats the most important thing so that you cannot. Needs with lets say with damaging the environment or or not respecting new human rights and social rights of the people that is something we i think that Global Community has to be able to solve these problems and thats thats creating opportunities for fairer. One that also discourage companies from sunday jobs overseas because if you are concerned about environment if you are concerned about. Rules that it makes sense to you to keep your Production Base closer to the areas where they where they go to consume but but i was at nokia for example if you look at the prices of mobile phones if you wanted to. Come of this size mobile phones price that was the night is it was Something Like 2 to 3000 euros and then 10 years later it was 100 euros that was based on the idea that the action was organized in completely different way i heard you say in that. One of the most important things in governance is having a concept a broader education on what youre trying to achieve and. Seems to have one it may be wrong. We disagree with it but do you think that kind of world view has the right to exist were looking at these consequences of this. Technological revolution there are other similar than those late 19th century which were the interests are bhushan consequences lack of rules a lot of gaps between different income groups and so on through out of a lot of challenges and i think we have 2 options one is to go to mosul she and 2 to try to. Do the good old times and that is that is going on in the u. K. Breaks it move those who are going to have the brakes if they say the u. K. Have to come back. To the times when we were able to decide on what happened in the ear because i hear exactly one european leader after another speaking about the brainiest there im im trying to say that this is really quite venom and i can see that in russia i can see that in turkey i can see that in the United StatesAmerica Great again this. Idea people who are afraid of the future who have lost future perspective they are easy to be taken into that and then there is another option and that is lets try to keep these values we have principles we have without understanding that all right they were very good until now but theyre not working anymore and thats why i think that we have to move or for whose what kind of system we would like to have into future and that is the discussion we are missing almost everywhere in the world and to be honest trump is not doing that his message is completely completely nostalgic he will have to contend with some of those issues when he moves to discuss industrial tariffs with the European Union which is expected to happen pretty soon are you at all nervous about are nervous because theyre hitting both americans and the states i think there are were looking at cold globalization there are 2 aspects we lose or we wrote and im coming from a country which believes strongly in we but we can see that unfortunately the major tendency is now sorts out if somebody is getting something its we have to pay for that and this is wrong. Globalisation the way it has been carried out over the last couple of decades it also benefit a. Very small group of people so there is substantially left. Very very large groups of it in. Numerous countries disadvantaged but their option is not to stop this Technological Development which is behind that if you look at the most richest or guru people. The world they have something to do with digital little technologies and they have been able to benefit like rockefeller or carnegie late 1900 centuries exactly in the same way now the question is that instead of saying that why did we not stop that the right call is how to create new rules for the game so that everyone is able to benefit from that but it isnt to be conflating technology and globalization and i think many people think there is you know there are so related i mean they are any they are now but you cant be all in favor of technology but if you want to have a more fair processional distribution in a given country and youre ready to take certain risks for that you want to again that may be some there may be. More than factoring that employs last people than before but it operate in your country pays local taxes etc what we have today and you mentioned big tech giants they their work everywhere around the world its not clear where exactly they pay their taxes what are the best countries in the world if you look at. Peoples minds feelings if you ask me in russia of course but i suppose until you know if you if youre going to look after inclusive countries to be honest youll find very often nordic countries there what are nordic countries doing but they have a very fair social model yes they are a lot and they really are most open societies as well they are countries which have invested heavily in close so they have been kroeber ised but they have globalized with rules which have be they may be able to make it possible that they were one has benefit from do you think the world can live by the rules that the nordic countries. And i dont know because its a question of historical legacies we dont have this imperial history and thats where legacies are openminded records we dont we dont look that much history Prime Minister we have to take a very short break now he said well be back in just a few moments. Why a paradise with some ground turned into a round the experimentation field for agricultural chemicals we know that these chemicals have consequences they are major irritants theres no question otherwise why would that the Chemical Company workers themselves be geared up and suited up locals attempt to combat the on regulated experiments but often in day you have many of these people one foot into the biotech pharma and the other foot in the government regulatory bodies this kind of collusion is reprehensible while the battle goes on the chemicals continue to poison hawaii and its people so one has to ask the question whether there is a form of Environmental Research going on in hawaii whether these Companies Feel they can get away with this because the people have less political power. And welcome back to worlds apart with former Prime Minister off the island as call. Mr. You mentioned bracks and before i heard you describe it as as an example of empty populism people voting out of emotional feeling rather than rationale is really both both and you know what about those leading that are utilizing peoples rush no they see problems and by that you mean back the tears a little tears you know i often hear people describe laxity years as populist but wasnt David Cameron the biggest pop populist of all i think you made a mistake you putting into the room an issue which is very difficult to be voted because i had a referendum in feel good rejoined do you know what we have very clear to all to use to join with the green meant we had negotiated or to stay there yes or no but in the u. K. Case you knew only one option another one was to hope im going to mention that an example because i think youre probably the best person to understand what kind of position cameron was in and i know that back down the you had faced opposition from your own party and you need to do to do a lot of persuasion in finland when you were taking your talents a referendum i mean yes i dont think that mr cameron did any of that in fact he later tried to blame my own country for sort of manufacturing that. Agenda do you really think he had demonstrated good leadership wasnt just a mistake or was it perhaps a characteristic of what kind of leadership he was offering. I can only say that afterwards when you get afterwards it was a fundamental mistake was it a vote about the state of the e. U. Governance as many people claim that the time or was it ultimately a vote on the state of the british governance because were we have see. Over the last 2 years that its not very inspired me its. Always like that so that if you look at. Referendums or Public Opinion lot of people are even when you were out on membership. Joining the e. U. Or leaving the or even when most people may be able to for for that there are many people who are voting against the government like in finland as well when we go to dont or new membership one argument was to to vote against the government in the u. K. The most fundamental one was the fact that there were a lot of problems and people couldnt fully understand what this because of the membership what these speakers of or some other reasons the reason im asking about it is because i think its a fair question and its a fair case to discuss the quality of the socalled liberal leadership that is so it is they full of the populace because asking before about transfinite what kind of ideas here propose this many people dismiss it out of hand and yet many would claim that it is in part the liberal leadership that brought us all to a place when we have to talk about morally decent forms of globalisation. You can believe that democratic systems have been. Waving learn to mcchrystal until theyre liberal in a new but i want to say that that we have time to time in democratic systems we have crises the fact is that you need to face some kind of transition period and we have 64 now ive seen several of them so that times a time we have a crisis and after the crisis certain things will be changed and i think this is a very fundamental crisis because of the fact that so many things are changing so much a new sleep this is exceptional in that respect when you were taking offense into the European Union being a democracy was enough now you have to be either a liberal democracy or illiberal democracy which is not i assume a good place is there any middle ground can a democracy be conservative and both its economic and social approach it should be much more efficient i think the democratic system has to be changed we have a lot of legacies of early they say Industrial Age so that if you look at the structure of the government its almost the same everywhere. And i dont believe that for example lets take an example. Of a population who is going to take responsibility of that is it means to for violence is it minister for social and health is it minister for interior or whose responsibility is that i think we have to understand that the role of the government has to be changed as well and democratic systems have to be reformed absolutely i heard you say that in the future the meaning of power including political power will be decided by those nations who are most. Conducive to have the best potential for scientific and Technological Development do you think these distinctions between liberal a liberal democracy versus authoritarian system will matter they will matter because of the fact that in no one looking at Digital Technologies they are more or less applied in a different type of entertainment and they are rather easy to be done because because you need only rather limited ecosystem for that but in the future when we are moving to health care transportation. Education Financial Services it means that the ecosystem is going to be very complicated and you need and that is very relevant you need consumers citizens who are really educated well trained to have capacity to live in that kind of society and i think that is the challenge for every Single Society roughly the same way like earlier in the investors at the educational systems in the world have been designed for Industrial Society to be growth and now we have we need changes in order to get citizens who have capacity to do that but i think its clear that citizens in the socalled authoritarian societies also have such capacity in fact levels of education in both russia and china are pretty high and whats interesting is that the. Virt to fully integrated system sound systems do seem to have at least initially set an advantage over democracies in how they develop their technologies i mean china is the best example when it comes to big data when it comes to centralized data pools they are leading the world partially because of how they can apply their decisions do you think europe and other democracies will have to change their own system in order to compete with china or they will have to try to change china system in order to be able to play in the same i think used important. Because if you look at Technological Development there are 2 dimensions vertical dimension how to get lets say high tech lots used to be developed and that is a system requiring capacity a lot of funding. Decisions coordination and i believe that all the rich areas systems are having some benefits to do that but then there is this horizontal aspect or isnt the least asian of the watches and i believe that in the future this role of our research relation is going to grow and to be honest i believe that democratic systems are can be better but can be better in that is specially that is an option for europe because europe is. Traditionally have been quite good in regulatory. Environment if you look at for example i know where about mobile phones why. Mobile business was growing so fast in europe and united because of Regulatory Environment so thats why i think we are going to see competition between china chinese more though russia is closer maybe to trying the smaller today the european model but but it has also european aspects and then the u. S. There are 3 ways and not all can do it. Well you mentioned this horror i dont know if i can even pronounce that having this horizontal into. To society and i think its clear that its already happening in china it is happening in my view in russia. Do you see so the author is tearing their vertically integrated systems already becoming more transparent in my view because of technology and there is a clear understanding of that both within the Chinese Government and within the russian government. In order to compete the european system i think will have to become a little bit more flexible and agile and vertical integrated if you will do you see any movement in that direction come to helsinki late november its not the best time i mean we have a very dark brother cold here. That you will find 21000 young intrapreneur. Start up. All over the world coming to helsinki that time its an indication that there is a there is a change going on and it was impossible to imagine that kind of things 10 years ago but as you well know there is interpreters especially those who have from europe would be very critical of how long it takes the European Union to pass certain legislation and make them compete on the same level Playing Field with peers in china or even in the United States sometimes on the short yes but on the long. Game is different think about. Who and especially facebook saying 2 years ago government is our biggest enemy can you imagine that facebook. Like that anymore. Because they have broken that they have recognized that the system without rules is probably not in their interest and who are making and has Less Charitable interpretation for facebook motives. That they have. That access. Once and trust in their system we disappear if they dont have common rules when finland joined the European Union we had to dream though many europeans had a dream that europe should be like america the american political system was like a like a model for your kind of value today and today you know when you say that because you have to recognize that maybe on the limit this european system has some some positive things yes as well but this complicated case because of todays complicated problems we have had easy of times and i hope. In the future we have a minute left and i still want to ask a question about something that you mentioned before that. A legacy especially for bigger countries could be a bit like a ball and chain. Who do you thing has a bigger problem with legacy is that the United States is in the European Union or is a tresham. They are a bit different in. A bit different but i think when looking at countries that have played a big role in the world like British Society has france. Turkey russia japan or all the United States its so difficult for them to understand that if things are going wrong its its not only question of this is that they are there. They have to go. In front of the mirror and to look at what we should do and im coming from a small country and probably in the smaller countries its easier to do that and to understand that something went wrong but something. Small country that is now part of. That entity and im talking about the European Union has been able to look at self in the mirror and to see some of the good things that. Some of the difficulties that it. Has its problems but but but. Its if you look at figures its a bit more than one percent of g. D. P. And 99 percent of everything is you know. I think that the problem is that the European Union is overestimating its capacity and its trying to come too much to issues which are actually easier to be taken care of National Governments and local governments see that and the opposite way its not good enough when looking at trade issues. Environmental issues or security and safety issues. Its always a pleasure talking to you thank you very much my pleasure thank you. Same place same time here. Welcome to max keiser financial survival guide. Looking closer to europe thats without. Yanks this is what happens to pensions in britain. You watch kaiser report. Most people think just stand out in this business you need to be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid in truth to stand down and lose business you just need to ask the right questions and demand the right answer. Question. Or over. The headlines in our u. S. Courts will decide whether there is enough evidence to go ahead with the senate case against faced with. Conservatives accused of suppressing their view. Also to come rushing the u. S. Trade accusations u. N. Security council the collapse of the control treaty. The United States will not remain a party to a treaty that is deliberately violated by russia we are one step away from an arms race that cannot be controlled regulated in any way. And the captain of. The ship facing up to 20 years in jail in history their activities rejects an award for bravery from the promise of pleasing parasol