Emerge from the. Immediate impact of the virus that that they are developing neurological problems and many of these are our cognitive challenges things like problems in concentrating on as in memory problems in sulks solving making simple decisions and i think we need to get on top of this very quickly you really think and youre an expert in this field that this anecdotal evidence of a lot of tasteless of well these may all be connected with brain function. Well you know we know that i mean if you think about what goes on in cody its essentially a spiritual problem and that of course him to see is with the oxygen supply to the brain and we know a lot about how anything that interferes with the oxygen get into your brain can affect brain function now it may be that there are direct viral affects maybe the virus itself sex that right not that i dont think we will be clear on that yet but we do know that there are these indirect effects caused by also the oxygen being on a ventilator being in the i. C. U. Being on sedatives all of these things and known to affect brain function so what is your hunch because its arguably not as exciting resigned is that it is indeed just a function of respiratory. Impacts from grown a virus or blood clotting that is affecting the brain as opposed to the virus itself somehow attacking the brain itself we dont i think it is as interesting as you said being in this conversation i spent a lot of my time in the i. C. U. Looking at patients who had brain injuries but you know most of those brain injuries arent due to say an impact to the brain a lot of these patients are people who had a cardiac arrest and the problem you know most people would think well lets hop problem thats not a brain problem but but actually when you have a cardiac arrest same problem here you know maybe the interruption of oxygen to the brain is at a different level the ultimate result is still brain damage and thats what im really interested in in trying to track and prevent if at all possible and so while there is anecdotal evidence theres also Firm Evidence the growing of viruses is in the family of sars virus is in and send back a 23 the survivors did have long term neurological complications. Yes thats right i mean thats just another factor that you know mate made us think that it was essential to get on with this study now we experienced this before obviously on a much smaller scale that we know about how survivors of similar viruses in the past have gone on to have long term problems with concentrating and memory in the and these are the not small problems these are things that can affect peoples ability to work and peoples ability to go about their everyday activities we have more than 10000000 people in the world right now who are recovering from coronavirus and you know imagine if a year from now we have 10000000 people who are able to carry out their their jobs affectively thats a huge economic and societal problem because dementia or alzheimers the biggest killers in this country as a 2018 in the office of National Citizen fix im just wondering are you saying the dementia alzheimers style dynamics may apply in that i dont know our Prime Minister who recovered in a virus his brain function the fact that its presumably. It could worsen were talking about worsening over time its not just people recover and as long as their brain function recovers it will stay at that function level. I mean that is actually one of the critical questions we were addressing in this study you know it could be and i think we all hope that these problems are temporary people experience temporary problems with memory and concentration it could be that theyre permanent youre just stuck with this situation which is course. Much worse but the worst possible scenario is that this virus can trigger some sort of degenerative situation where people actually get worse over time now we dont know when thats the case not really is it really is too early to say but it could be and we could end up with a generation of people who are suffering with a dementia like illness down the line the Prime Minister here is under attack for a perceived. Care homes where so many thousands of people here died what is there. To link degenerative diseases like dementia with over that all. Well there are many factors involved people who are old are more horrible by definition they tend to have more other medical issues going on they may have spiritual issues and they have heart issues they may have issues with their brain directly you know like dementia so this you know this population of people are inherently more vulnerable when anything any virus light like this hits and i think thats probably the main factor of course theres a theres a Community Issue as well of these people are already living together in a you know in a small space so when one of them contracts the virus its very easy passed on to others and those have been widely discussed in the media but do you think that somehow dementia treatments may help in any if its proven long term Brain Effects of growth of ours i think we dont know the answer to that we dont really have effective treatments for dementia and i think the same would be true if it turns out that the virus causes some kind of degenerative situation i think its unlikely that were going to have a treatment that we can pull off the shelf to to. To deal with that but so its i think the priority right now is to try and understand what these problems are understand how widespread its going to be and put steps into place to deal with it if and if and when it occurs as i say we dont have any evidence yet that degenerative for those people watching you are recovering from coronavirus but what made you start thinking about brain function was it and you might have to define this word neuro tropic dynamics it was it was it this report of a lot of taste and lots of swill. Yes i mean once it started become apparent that people were losing taste musing smell it it was it was clear that there were some neurological issues going on because those are both neurological. Neurological symptoms if you like i guess people tend to think its something to do with the nose because its all in the brain now that that started to make us think what well is there anything else going on and i i started to ask around and. Talk to people who were recovering from copenhagen and many of them were reporting bigger issues problems with things like memory and concentration and early on in the pandemic i was really thinking well you know this is not a problem for a neuroscientist like me this is a problem for. People who want to understand viruses but you know as this is a new dawn and more and more people have contracted the virus and more and more people in as a result are now starting to recover its very clear that this is a problem this is not one or 2 people many many people are reporting these kinds of neurological deficits and weve had people on this program from the independent Scientific Advisory group on emergencies what did you make watching if you did from gallagher of Boris Johnson here flanked by his that we are following the science does that make any sense too. Well i you know im going to comment on that the political background to that situation obviously i did watch i was i was aware of it and you know i can only hope. That the politicians are really taking the scientists very very seriously and i guess i was getting at the fact that science obviously changes and probably changes because of hopefully innovations that you come up with but then if you immediately started to suspect. Relations to brain cognition obviously theres a higher case of frequency of dementia in care homes that there is in the accident emergency or grow the virus warden or spittal do you think there are implications here for future brenda mix i think there are because you know i think everything we can learn from this pandemic will be useful in the future and you know whether thats how best to contain it or best to develop vaccines or how best to anticipate the if you like knock on effects like cognitive deficits and thats why here its so important for us to get access to a large number of people we want a lot of people to sign up worse your cognitive or brain deficit is going to be down the line but you know maybe thats not true maybe even people who are asymptomatic young people people out in the street dont have got through this without even getting into hospital maybe those people are also going to be affected with these neurological problems and you know until we assess a lot of people were really not going to know whos if you like immune you know whos going to run into trouble down the line i know youre at the beginning of the journey if theres a big if there are parallels between how corona virus itself acts on the brain and dementia what are the what sort of dementia degenerative curve are we looking at i mean will people know if they havent got a brain or worsening brain function in a years time after recovering them basically theyre safe. Well thats an extremely good question again its one that we cant really answer until we get get hold of the data and as most people know alzheimers disease is a is a fairly slow generally a slow moving neurodegenerative disease it can often be some years before you know somebody eventually succumbs to to the disease itself but you know there are other forms of neurodegeneration that go much more quickly and so on and right now we know we dont know whether whether the effects of corona virus are in one of those 2 categories you know i think typically looking at somebodys performance of decline in this case over the course of the year is enough to determine whether they are to generating and how quickly the process is going so thats actually why we plan to follow people for an entire year because we can learn a lot from how somebody performs a yes and now relative to how they performed day thats really the key its going to tell us with that this is a moving target or stationary permanent problem just finally and briefly i know over in china theyre coming out with dementia drugs go. In in china there are drugs coming out. What if the Research Money goes into all of this and we get nothing out because if sars did affect brain function back in 2002 and 23 why is it we still dont know more about the the sars family of viruses and how they affect the brain condition. Well one of the reasons is because you know we didnt have as many people back then we now have as many people surviving for us to be able to do this kind of research i think you know in many ways sounds a bit bizarre but this is a great scientific opportunity we have one of the largest scientific natural scientific experiments in the world more than 10000000 people contract in the same virus so i think this is the 1st time in history weve really had this all of opportunity where we can look at a large proportion of those people look at the experiences theyve had look at the apps the other diseases they were coping with the time whether they were sedated whether they were hospitalized with ice and to my take and try and pack what is behind this and you know recent this is the 1st time weve been able to do this professor you know and thank you. After the break what are you supposed violent rioters in all called have to do with the cia we speak to one of them calls youngest ever that your slate is about upholding democracy under the flag of the peoples republic of china all of them all going about doing going underground. The world is driven by. The dares thinks. We dare to ask. Welcome back well as nato nations remain in the minority in their criticism of china over its new National Security law the media has largely been in the majority and voicing concerns that china is trampling over a british democracy that found its roots in colonialism but its shadows have arguably lived on nathan law as the youngest ever legislator to be elected to the home go council quoting anti british imperialism a gun the that eventually led to his arrest spending 7 months in jail he is the founder and former chairman of the prodemocracy party demo system before going on the run to what he alleges is persecution from china and he joins me now via skype from an undisclosed location nathan thanks so much for coming on 1st when im going to ask you why an undisclosed location what we are now the how excited. Are now and. So many answers before. Once again before that you know where my whereabouts and my purse. In my purse and a half from now could it be in response to article 38 of this new law i dont know where you heard in the world but apparently article 38 seems to suggest that any offenses committed against Hong Kong SpecialAdministrative Region from outside the region by a person who is not a permanent resident of the region is liable for action let alone permanent resident which i presume you are well. Where ever i am and then if i have committed something liable to. Prosecute. It is not about where i be but. Is about well whether there are any uncertainty created by the Chinese Authority or even that has. Reached outside china so yeah just wait and. The whether its safe to review my location to see power wells with june in the sun choose to sit here in britain according to the United Nations or Edward Snowden who had to flee to moscow well i think i was there all the while actually on many. Many similarities that we can come together for now in hong kong ive been a prominent activist and author of election now with in charge the county and all of that while basically none of the laws hong kong has implemented will be like its just written in such a broad and take anyone who went to protest could possibly be gracious and face my phone died long consenting so my reaction is to such a little and yeah its definitely destroying of course freedom and they sell ptolemy were things best because im going to say we have to prove apparently that Deng Xiaopings translates or own who said he wanted julian songe to be free in this country with things better in hong kong do you think under the british dictatorship when the past and there was a sachin. Well 1st of all. It is quite meaningless to come the same place in different era because the time has changed and secondly which is the last 2 decades actually hong kong and the last of that case of its colonial time all call actually. Was implemented with a serious offer liberalisation and democratisation measures but it all being returned to the 5 base chain so we can say bache and actually intense on a whole the process of democratization in hong kong and to concentrate power more and more throughout the incoming taishan of one country 2 systems you see the chinese authorities claim that this is imperialist meddling there qs. Hong kong human Rights Groups of being some of the sometimes in the payment is often linked to cia backed organizations that learn u. S. Government funded n. G. O. S while these are all at from beijing has always been used to stay much higher stuff Home Movement they have never provided any relevant after those for the accusation because these are not true or complete will come out to protest for their own sake and for the sake of democracy and because china has not been doing what their promises on compete for which are democracy and autonomy so while it kind of narrative is being used to fuel its own purpose and and tries to fool the world but their world refused to listen to these guys so it is in court of law to recognize that this is a movement mobilized by holcombe people themselves in self the local d like florrie for those as if you know about him paralysed is about high an author a terrier expansion they wanted to control on call everywhere advocate or the freedoms that we have enjoyed is it means to an end for the so called human rights activists to work with cia linked organizations because the National Endowment for democracy is clear that it has a role in the prodemocracy movement professors you zhang room whos been imprisoned a constitutional law professor who we are. About on this program he wrote for the National Endowment for democracy its on his on their website the any day of his be funded by the. Well i have no idea what that kind of accusation that you brought up was a crown or that was merely someone writing something on their website or their organization you know if you go check on the protest side of income people people carrying their own resources to the ground and supporting the movement by their own even though there are International Organizations night boys a couple to hong kong but that doesnt mean that wrestling financially organized or organized station only it is a false accusation and i dont think what you have coined now about the length of any the phone call in this matter is a correct description im not sure of the hundreds of millions of people whose governments are being destabilized by the naslund of a democracy how given the over the decades would agree tell me about the Hong Kong Democracy Council that your on the board of hong kong people elect. Organization focus on. Africa if you walk on the us so it does not directly involved in the local ground protest in hong kong right but its called the Hong Kong Democracy Council and it seems to have direct links to lobbying in washington for laws that suggest unless hong kong enact legislation that helps washington there should be u. S. Sanctions on china well i say. Call rationale behind though its when china is found out to. Commit itself to the promise off on the british on declaration well its a totally accountable because the declaration is timed by british and Chinese Government and it is tabled in the United Nation so i was talking about the professional treatment of hong kong that is a major premise of that which is hong kong remains autonomous so if home going under the direct autocratic control from china it is just an ordinary chinese city so why the well should all the perpetual shame on phone call i think this is the logic behind so i dont i dont think the way to country use the use of words and the rationale behind. Hong kong human rights and democracy that help the discussion exam is not the world or that its a tiny minority of countries nato countries that were talking about most of the world isnt making a big fuss about this hong kong act and perhaps they see that it is absurd the china should abide by us legislation over what is part of its country i think that is also and all the false protections was the act because the act is about where the u. S. Should continue to give preferential treatment to hong kong things that are no policy of the u. S. In meddling on an issue and we have to understand that that International Status of hong kong is being recognized by the entire coming in to be a step they have to show that they remain strong rule through all and all told me so that the trust is on system just hunting i dont adjust to about i dont want to just talk about the u. S. Hong kong human rights and democracy act which marco rubio lobbied for with george for a long your colleague and samuel too but it clearly says sanctions have been put on china if china does not serve us interests. What sort of act is that i presume you lobbied for this act well i think. Thats on the lay for hong kong peoples point of view we need to hold china accountable and thats what the welfare to do so for the high value of normal people on the streets and on kong is they should be a defacto colony of the United States well i dont think that is a direct link so call me and call on if they and that kind of call dont call in only you know my set was the Current International says its absolutely wrong you dont call it not on the us then thats kind of relevant sanctioning mckennas them like the money is being implemented all over the world not only about chinas about all the human rights they hold all the human rights falling out so i dont think that kind of like condemn i think the. Current state of mind and i think youre using the wrong comparison to understand whats happening in hong kong because the because its can act rusher alleging that that is related to nato nations Intelligence Services to me why you think we havent heard more about the we go muslim concentration camps that we did hear of a while back apparently millions of muslims imprisoned and the news seems to have disappeared from from. The newspapers and Mainstream Media because hong kong we still call a lot of International Media station and i urge the world that we should continue continue to pressure beijing to china and to and the confrontation coming change on which actually the u. S. Congress has passed and not. Well concerning that issue so i think it is not about him paralysed them its all about going on this is about the well they have like acumen a thing well lets just commit the throughout the past decade because the. Liberal commune. It what allowed them to do so and thats not right you see evidence of these socalled concentration camps apparently comes from the network of chinese human rights defenders backed financed by the Us Government and homophobic far right i call adrian sense there are only 2 pieces of evidence in fact the basis for the accusation that millions of we give. In concentration camps are based on 8 people interviewed by the network of chinese human rights defenders is that propaganda to have you seen the serious or b. B. C. Proper and back knew it in a yes absolutely. But it also can make people that you counted any well again as i say the evidence for the initial accusations are 8 people youre saying there is no involvement youve had no involvement with anyone involved in u. S. Intelligence as regards your role or your colleagues role in the hong kong protest movement. By my colleagues and i have no connection to the u. S. Intelligence and any thought of intelligence from around the world we fight for hong kong peoples freedom for our own and. Calm people are. Now you can all be safe thank you thank you and thats of the show will be back on monday 4 years after you get Prime MinisterDavid Cameron resigned after failing to keep britain in the e. U. And overseeing a policy of austerity that led to deaths of the citizens he vowed to protect until then wash your hands join the underground when you present that facebook and instagram. Your songs i also remember. When you just showed interest in your. Words goes a long way to Traverse Team your. Brain a not desires you know when ill. Be transported to suspect james or inflation and in america and these are distracted they need their coloring she loved this person for 44 years. Strong in minutes she went you guys she you and was you cannot measure. It it was easy. She told her drugs to be. Really a man when you are a good man when you think. That. But i know i did it almost that thing is my look others are giving me or im. Not mean they say and mean i dont mean youre nice i am. And the i love you so moment i know the song lets me know i know that when you know them you love. Me like this girl. So we have inherited a brain that was constantly comparing itself to others so for a monkey we just for a bit of food it compares itself to others and if it seems that its weaker then it doesnt. Each for the banana because its afraid of getting it sees that its stronger sara told in his release and it goes for it and it feels good so we build patterns when were young of comparing ourselves to others and making decisions about when we feel one are any when we feel one down and its easy to feel one down all the time if your doctor needed to think that way and then you end up with this one is all the time and thats the root of depression. Oxfam warns that covert 19 could cause mass hunger across the globe and that killed 12000 people a day. To. Developing in an otherwise middle income and of countries i mean money is flowing to the Big Companies and its really not getting down to the people that need it. The poll finds of mixed feelings and that you are welcome in the u. K. Tourists without self isolation as brits get the green light to travel to 59 countries. By i think they will be regarded so what he suspicion 1st of all we need to make sure that they do not have the virus that they have had to test until ok and then then they have the right to enjoy themselves