That means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate ok lets go to also 1st theres a lot of discussion about trumps decision to move i think what 12000. 00 troops out of germany and the the the theme is that coming out of the white house germany is not paying its nato bills but that im not satisfied with that explanation oh by the way its bipartisan its a bad idea everyone knowing i know everyone that knows me watching this program i think nato should be dissolved completely but nonetheless and you know the top line story here is miss place this is about a fraught relationship that germany has had with in nato with the United States leading that Alliance Since the end. Since the not in the end in the end of the 1940 s. All the way to the end of the cold war in 1901 so theres something much bigger players go ahead. Well trunk obviously is a much much bolder than his predecessors no you are correct this is something that has always been some tensions in the relationship has always gone on for example throughout the cold war americans were just large extent concerned about some of the european integration and us remember after the cold war you had meddling albright to cautioning the europeans that you know the e. U. Should not be a couple for nato remember that nato system in these situations now. Is because well they are simply because the european integration and the ablest this continent to use collective Bargaining Power to have greater equality in relations with United States so this is quite normal for any country why would you cooperate with 27 to 27 countries seeking. In the negotiate from business a signal strength and they always have the incentive to deal with one state individual instead of a bilateral basis and then maximize their influence however the u. S. Nonetheless membership support of european integration of least a certain extent because it provides the price United States with a very powerful lot was very important to recognize this dilemma that the u. S. Always space so a strong e. U. Weakens the us within the west however a stronger or a partnership with the e. U. Then also becomes a source of collect intentionally and us to empower a strong army to control together now i think now in the last few years this relation fence began to change largely because of the rise of asia with china at the center because the u. S. Wants to spend less on europe this older began with obama however they want more loyalty to the u. S. In terms of use our energy our technologies our corporations our transportation orders banks etc etc so and a lot of others on europeans they want more autonomy so and at the same time to still want americans to pay for security so this is a relationship thats always been yes on some tensions and its always been. Or should and i think what were seeing now is that has to be read the fine and i think its a mistake to simply dismiss it trumping ironic not say that its not erotic. Well i mean erratic i mean you know use a move to troops to another country like poland ok the u. S. Promised it would do at the end of the cold war also i find it really quite amusing that you know if this bipartisan hair on fire is that you know its going to cost too much money to do relocate these assets here george they never complain about the cost of the military when theyre escalating but they do complain when they deescalate why interesting go ahead george rove had said thats exactly right if they were one item in the budget that never causes any control the scene washington thats the military budget that just sails through. Trump proposed the 730000000000 the democrats say 717 mil 1000000000 are less split the difference i think to some 65000000000 i mean that just if you just waltz us through proly apparent control or see in the the bitter fighting between the democrats and republicans militaries. And of course in this case trumps proposal to withdraw all these 12000 troops from germany has indeed been attacked by actually i mean both democrats and republicans have condemned. Trumps withdrawal and opposed thats always the case the moment there is any discussion of withdrawing u. S. Troops so many ways whether its syria again bipartisan hysteria withdraw from afghanistan. And remember. The whole story of the russian bounties on the u. S. Servicemen you know you dont mean the story only wheeled out precisely at the time when he seems like where u. S. Troops are about to leave. Just as the trunk wants to withdraw from syria we saw here. The gallant cooks we must save the cuz the cars are of the greatest ally in the world so i would expect at some point you know maybe next week some stories along the lines of some russian john plot taking place in bali and putin is engineering some kind of a major crisis in john many so we mustnt absolutely mustnt. Withdraw any troops from germany the less this always fits into a pattern and of course youre absolutely right with withdrawing troops of germany fike you know making steps to you know bring this nato this museum really lets us know those political strategic books to an end can only be a good thing i mean sadly i think were still a long way from that at least it seems like a step in that direction you know big claim you know and reading the main Mainstream Media press on this topic here never once did i come across that Public Opinion poll consistently in germany would like to see the american treat troops leave their country 75 years after the bank wishing of nazi germany but its never mentioned in the press that you know they the troops theyre just not wanted theyre not needed and and really what this gets it whats coming into for here in your 1st answer was quite eloquent is that you just have american exceptionalism against european ideas of security and theyre clashing head let it well the mission of nato has changed because it will initially when it came to place the whole argument was a western europe was very much we can from the war and americans needed to stay there until they could be temporarily strengthened and then leave them and this was the famous quote eisenhower when he was the Supreme Commander of nato he argued that you know in one in 51 the are going for still there in 10 years this whole mission would have failed because we didnt build up their p. And some didnt. Fullback well no this situation just shows tragically from understeer is no so it union 2nd year is very much rebuilt but thats whats got before the new keeper is now its just our structure which emerged during the cold war which is the u. S. Base for security and the europeans largely get to esther talk but youre also correct that there is a discrepancy between the Political Leadership and the population mean almost every year to do this poll so whos the greatest who a disgrace threat to International Security come from and almost all americas allies say United States so that there is this. Is the difficulty and the relations. So i think we with that argument i think within washington you get 2 different perspectives one is trumps argument essentially you know when to punish the germans because there are 2 us were told and if youre shifting the troops in iraq then youre essentially punishing them so im trying to respect that hes actually saving they dont by having this punishment and reward based on their loyalty to the United States its more from congress you get this other perspective which is you know if you alienate you know the europeans the germans spent effectively youre handing them over to the russians and chinese that this could be a kremlin conspiracy you know i mean yes there is its actually very multidimensional its george i mean they ever since the god from top to bottom when he was a candidate and now president is it theres been a theory out there is it you know forcing the European Countries or you of the nato members to spend more weight in the nature of these nato members would realize well why are we spending so much money because it really isnt a threat to our security here and that would be a way for example saying see if i force you to pay more you dont want to be more than you see it there is no threat you know me and they actually spend it coming to fruition in a very near when they go ahead. Yes that was the. The argument and thats and thats a very reasonable which is that you know ok you telling us that youre terribly frightened that this terrible big russian bear in the east ok fine and they some more you know but you know why are we protecting you youre the one who supposedly in the front line so when they say labby i know we said were at the front line but we dont actually mean that we have spent more they said ok fine and were not going to spend any more so that was that was a reasonable argument but trump also had a deeper argument which is that europe has become an economic rival to the United States i mean it was one thing to. Build up. Europes defenses in the 1950 s. And 160 s. But even from the like the seventys on. West germany and that was a lot of the time is now becoming a serious economic rival to the United States now you know 4550 years on it we can see the results of this so that it doesnt make very little sense for the United States to be subsidizing a power that is really an economic giant i mean this makes me a salute you know sense and the Trump Realizes this but of course you know theres a huge powerful well oiled atlanticist establishment that is absolutely hell bent on slaughtering any attempt to. This in time go this relationship so yeah theyre just theyre just too many careers built on this ok i mean the 5000 nato bureaucrats on the continent as well i mean they you know thats that been their entire future when one of the interesting things that i find interesting is that with this i mean the polls want they want to build for trump and they want american troops permanently stationed in poland again that would be against the agreements made ending. The confrontation in in europe with the dissolving of the force. But doesnt poland stay standing like this its position is not really divided nato internally even more because it shows that there is no kind of unified understanding of what the alliance is supposed to do i mean this is an alliance in search of a mission and the poles are stepping up and defining it for the rest of the member countries thought it. Well that was already a concern by. Poland and others joined nato because of the cold war there was some concern among for example germany that they didnt want to can point to russia as a threat they believed that there was able to ice on working relationship with them meanwhile the poles pretty much just wanted to be on the other side of the wall so a continued 1000 Russian Alliance not a solution for nato what you do the western europeans dont want to name russia as a threat and the eastern europeans want to label russia the solution was as i said to stretch egypt ambiguity in order just about democracy stable government and you know with friends to russia. And i think theyre there that parity with. Russia which is against expansionism and would trigger this security guarantee and wish to converse from being this organization for democracy to again containing russia so that was the strategic i think you need money you need huge military budgets you depend european democracy im not sure i really comprehend that gentlemen im going to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after that your new abstraction and some real news day. Thinking of getting a new thing once we got. You know a girl who threatens you are wired. To use a crate with him he will. Freaking out the wallet is pretty much anywhere near as thousands of breeding dogs are paid to do new lane conditions on. I mean 67 years you know theyve been locked up in a cage outside you see no protection from the weather the heat you know the courtier the rain the snow the funder nothing they have no protection. To get you. To get through kids. Across the u. S. Cruel puppy mills are supported by dog shows and still most of the puppies that are coming from these large Scale Factory farming kind of operations are being sold and at stores even joined a good businesses are involved like cargo the mom sent up there has been a shocking amount of organized opposition to efforts to increase the standards of care for dogs bred in commercial breeding for so many days most of that opposition is coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with dogs dont buy dog. Shows seemed wrong. But old roles just dont hold. Any old belief yet to shape out just they become advocates and in gains from an equals betrayal. When something a find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. 54 jets and more than 1300 military personnel are headed to heal some air force base in alaska where is that to say come on ill show you whats the reason for any type of enhanced u. S. Military presence in this area rushed up. What is it suddenly about the South China Sea that makes it so of added 11000000000 barrels of oil. Take a look at this map who really owns what kind of says no it belongs to us india says no we claim that that belongs to us both of these countries have Nuclear Weapons capabilities there is reason for concern so thats why were going to drill down on this story for you today right here on the news with rick sanchez where you know as we always like to say we do believe by golly its time to do news again. Welcome back to crossfire hes are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were talking about some real names. Ok george its switch gears here none of us are doctors here obviously and but were all perceptive about politics thats what we do basically for a living in one form or another and watching joe biden i mean its really its quite shocking that weve gotten down to a candidate it could be the democrats a rally behind if. They do is challenge ok hes challenging it in a variety of ways that we all know that this is. Domestically this is all an anti trump gambit thats very very clear ok its not voting for joe its voting against donald trump but if we do have this heightened ministration the implications are enormous how would the outside world see this whos in charge internet interAgency Consensus whos in charge of that i mean it would send a very ambiguous message to the International System go ahead george. Yes thats it tell you right. Whats very sad here is of course how cynical the democrats have been bill of this after all bidens physical and mental deterioration well as a parent throughout the primaries everybody could see i mean the candidates themselves on the stage was seen to be sniggering at his office decrepitude yet they all rally around him theyd all stand why was this because they were absolutely determined to defeat donald trump and they thought that lunch bucket joe with this suppose it links to the in industrial midwest would somehow be the one person who could be absolutely guaranteed to defeat trump now if they got it clear that this is really very problematic as people do see. That this is you know how can he last 4 years let alone 8 years so who is going to be running the country now his rise the outside world is concerned well there are no doubt the atlanticist establishment types were very powerful in europe who would welcome oh its great this day the rich ah no the the obama crowd all the all the safe arab hands for george or maybe on the flip side of what you just said is that an empty vessel that we can fill yes yes yes thats right so that i think i think like of their oh theyll tell him are oh you know you know russia is a rat you know weve got to you know spend more here move troops you know yeah ill go along with all that so yes no doubt. Happy about this but its a very dangerous situation because to have somebody in the oval office who really isnt up to the job so he could either make absolutely reckless foolish decision or all of the dish. Vision will be made by people who have not been elected to anything and what their own agenda thats the point that you know you know glenn you know historically you know we had Winston Churchill in his 2nd stint as Prime Minister he was exhibited mental deficiencies obviously brezhnev the soviet leader he died in power and even Ronald Reagan in the waning days of his 2nd term in office that would be change became obvious that he was having some problems as well now im describing 3 individuals historically 3 important historical individuals at the end of their government Power Service ok were talking about a guy thats going in to the white house i mean that should send alarm bells should not go ahead mark. Yeah good health a key difference that its not at the end of his term. I agree with fear i was sent before i think that that idea biden is why do you want to bring him in because. Household name whos part of the old guard was with obama and this is very much an anti trump platform and will let their men message all discounting will be a return to the normal and he especially were a sense to possibly idea biden but the realities of this is a great difference with its cognitive abilities according to quite probably and i hope agree thats a sense of. The progress is there as well because keep in mind that the democrats have all for the last 4 years now been criticizing the mental state i would save quite reasonably pointing to his narcissism on the other running a candidates roost similarly struggling with dementia also. Does doesnt bring up a lot of moral issues or one whats going to its all about winning now of course a whopping after he wins 1st their office. Become string together a simple sentence i think. This is going to be hard on president and the for the rest of the allies especially in europe theyre going to see. One they like more than trump but also one not well qualified to leap so im against the sooners remember much this antimissile. George i mean with the most loot one of the most important elements to keep the International System stable is certainty what can what can you expect i mean in this case i mean when i look at you know last 3 and a half years truman on the margins pushed back against this injury Agency Consensus but we could have though im in the white house in january that will have no resistance whatsoever its going to it will sign you know well ill sign anything i mean that you know and then whos making those decisions that didnt. Im in so the world you know unelected bureaucrats that like thats going to create a lot of uncertainty in my mind go ahead yes yes and what weve seen during the trump years and before all is that that unelected bureaucracy is a public menace. They have been pushing their agenda they have ignored the elected president they are the one who actually ran on the platform they simply said well you know we dont care about his policy was he ran on we the people in charge because as you say we are the interAgency Consensus so if i was a dangerous situation how much more likely will this be on the bike and i mean you know a lot of might well enjoy you have a good time you dont have to do anything you know spent time with your family you know you know playing croquet whatever you want to there will run everything. And who are the people going to be running it i mean they will be people like. Fiona hill. All that crowd who kind of came out of the woodwork during the trump yes it will quite frightening in the kind of pathological view of the well they have they will be in charge and you know this is a real serious threat to democracy i mean what is the proper having elections if the people who are running the country i dont think to do with any of these elections and they dont run on anything you know they did thats a perfect good point because it just shows you know they continue divorce between up Foreign Policy issues and the democratic process ok you know one of the things i find really disturbing is that in the last 3 and a half years troops Foreign Policy is been all over the place i think thats a Fair Assessment i think the fact that its been all over the place has actually created debate now mostly against him from the interAgency Consensus but in a byte in ministration we wont even have that debate will insist be is if for. All see just this is completely separated off into a different realm because whoever is assuming the oval office in january will have to team with a pandemic and economic turndown social unrest here and what i worry is like when george was alluding to is that you know going to have a small you know little cabin in area will get will take care of the rest ok and you know those people taking care of the rest happen just asterisks record over the last 40 years go ahead. Now i would also add that what is this going to do to this notion. Of the country to trust in the Political Class given mind of one of the reasons why people voted for trump even people who didnt care much for mr want to throw a wrench into the system because that the distrust of the Political Class and the media for sake had a grown at a huge level which is very much definition of populism when people feel that alienated from the political cause. They believe the Political Class or to distance from them and then you have trump in power and the 1st thing they see is the political cost effectively trying to taking down with this rush again and other things other ways a sense of denying the results of the election hillary obviously leading living it and now once she said ok so i dont care much for the way he leads a list by the time hes gone now theyre going to put in biden who does not have. It who seems to have dementia and he seems to be the center vessel which again the political east can control it for those in the United States who are not happy with how the political system is going this is going to probably have a huge reaction this time maybe more from the political right to who will question the legitimacy just like the left can legitimately of challenge the right will not recognize the legitimacy really applied and not because he may in state election but because. Of his mental state well i mean look we have a political system that is now rooted in disbelief ok i mean it is so partisan george and i have talked about this privately a number of times that no matter who is declared the Bigger Picture in november the countrys going to explode ok theres no doubt about it in my mind george will rapidly running out of time one of the things i find really. Again to the point of bizarre is that you have this plotlines matter we have you know exactly systemic racism and all of that whole narrative that is in the wake of the. Of the by juggernaut as there were in the basement but in meaning theres no reflection that the american Foreign Policy particularly since the end of the 2nd world war has has. Dealt very very harshly with people of color around the world you can look at Southeast Asia you can look at iraq you can look at afghanistan you look at syria i mean theres no reflection is there i mean its all internal they dont see how Foreign Policy has been played out to the detriment of their what it wont values about fighting races go ahead yes thats a very good point that thats exactly i got an absolute heap aka say oh you know we really care about you know people of cholera except when theyre living abroad i mean then then we really dont care but then they just miss out i get so frightening that syrians you know that all people of color iraqis theyre not people of color you know its just on them the smithereens were just going back to the point about what the agenda of the interAgency Consensus there is no question these people want revenge against russia i mean they they are furious that over 2016 and one of those dangerous aspects all the way biden presidency will be this crowd that will see a look for payback against russia i mean and i think it probably will last for a based on allegations a myth and a hoax ok g. s the political left really is a cult ok because its not based on empirical evidence its based on fury resentments and revenge thats what we might get in january all right gentlemen thats all the time we have i want to thank my guests and also in budapest and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here our p. C. And x. Time remember across the. Join me every thursday on the alex simon chill and ill be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business im sure ill see you then. L. A. Look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such conflict with the 1st law. Should be very careful about official intelligence and the point of view screen is to create a trance every. Night on theory shots and with Artificial Intelligence will summon the demon. The robot must protect its own existence as a nexus for. From Central London this is all to u. K. Swathes of Northern England state of lockdown as the infection rate surges and Major Incidents is declared in britain the just giving police the power to bring in me ill be talking to of all respects but. Companies say millions of employees and wont return to the Office Despite the promise was told to get stuff back to would. Levels of crime pounds by some pretty low levels as the. Along with budget cuts could escalate the situation to get reaction from a former Police Officer. And also the Academic Freedoms that universities may be at risk is a survey shows that breaks into this field they need a sense of themselves ill be discussing it with a journalist and a politics expert. Localized coronavirus lockdowns continue across Northern England with Greater Manchester declaring a Major Incident as cases rise it puts the region on an alert level similar to terror attacks or Natural Disasters aunties and he joins me now with more on his say so why has the local authority taken such a drastic step well what weve been seeing particularly in the Greater Manchester area of northwest england has been a rise in the transmission rate in that region particularly weve been seeing in the smaller towns like blackburn and oldham an increase in some cases a very sudden sharp increase in the transmission rates and so for those reasons Major Incident has been declared the great manchester combined but all 30 say that this actually helps boost their capabilities to deal with this kind of issue that theyve been learning from places like leicester and that it will allow them to have access to more resources so what exactly is a Major Incident and what exactly does it tail it usually is declared in response to Something Like a terrorist attack for example or a Natural Disaster like shuddering which youve seen in years gone past regions can access extra National Resources which can include the police for example drafting in the army if support is needed we have seen of course again with floods army forces coming in to help the fire brigade look police and others with logistics but of course. With this announcement expected to lead to Greater Police enforcement of those latest measures we could see people feel comfortable if the army were to be brought into the street to force the now where much of the city council say that people shouldnt be alarmed by these changes me sort of the. Weekend households being told that they couldnt meet each other like they were before no gatherings in larger numbers places like pubs and restaurants do remain open however there are restrictions in place again with social distancing and other measures not the north of england has been the parts of the country which has seen this rise in the transmission rate these rules also apply not the east lancashire parts of West Yorkshire and it appears that seems to be the governments new strategy to go forward rather than once more plunging the entire country into a lockdown and devastating the economy once more and theyre going to take a localized approach and go by area area by area and see which areas are the most impacted and at the measures in place there is a thanks very much indeed for that update well for more on these localised outbreaks im joined by microbiologist dr simon clark some of these local lock downs is there the Science Behind them. Oh well there is not much science find any of this because weve never before but we know from International Law ground further that it has an effect on suppressing the number of that certain number of infections below 0 or below what we would otherwise expect so it seems that on a localized. Basis and thats been shown it less than that it will work as well it does work to lets that we should remember that are going to manchester though the Major Incident that seems to be more about getting resorts is to deal with the situation but that that this whole idea of this could really terrified residents could in off. Well you could do them oh youve got to remember really on whats happening you people have been told not to congregate in their homes but i guess if the numbers dont stabilize and start to decrease pretty soon then that might might be the opportunity or the expectation that there will be further restrictions imposed on the population and changing their sexual resources might help with that but of course getting replaced beforehand will be beneficial and we better than waiting for things to happen at a massive rollout program in testing havent we so is isnt that because were now seeing high infection rates because normal people are getting tested. Well i dont think that necessarily stacks up by these are real increases i dont know the way at all for any situations where people who want to meet tests are getting them were otherwise they would but im not sure i believe that i think this is just optimal testing what about deaths that they still seem to be low at the moment but why is that. The moment yes there is some indications some dates are not very good date a little bit of dates that to say deaths are related to seasonality to be in temperatures so you might be that there might just be that we havent seen them filtered through the system yet we know from from the experience in spring but it takes a number of weeks for people to turn up in austin or and if they are going to pass away for that happen so there is a delay on not happening off the base become infected and now we see a lot of young people in that increase in those being infected and young people getting mostly mild symptoms are no show us the case in the u. K. I havent seen any data on vast but certainly it costs a continental year theres been an indication that younger people are picking it up and spreading it is that good that young people would pick. Up spread it and if its done in such a model contracted in in such a mild way thats better than keeping everybody away from each other well known necessarily even younger people can get serious complications with mobile no symptoms and of course if they spreading it around they could spread it to a friend of a similar age you have an underlying condition like aspirin thats not uncommon in younger people or they could spread it to older relatives so thats when it becomes serious now theres this talk of a 2nd wave in europe is seeing signs but the World Health Organization says actually one big wave that never went away. Well theres no textbook that definition of what is and theres not a 2nd wave we certainly do you see in this country are made and sustained Community Transmission site you can stand up the argument that eightys is that the way weve had hitherto tried previously but really whats in a name if the number of infections and sadly constantly goes up over the coming weeks and months does it really matter whether we call it a 2nd where you dont know and really realistic label we cant suppress this cam way unless theres a vaccine we just have to accept that were going to keep catching this thing well yeah i was afraid thats the case the be all the options for us at the moment are a vaccine which isnt an option because we dont have one and this didnt seem to some degree be that you know socially distancing keeping a meter or 2 weeks are all just saying whoa well hopes to have of this not shut out a vaccine that could be perhaps available by the end of the year. I doubt it will be being rejected before by the 8th of this year i think that just to try science ray we have the data to show us whether or not it works by then we might get something that we can start to speed or by extreme excess the time and of course the nose the question of how effective is it just because it works doesnt mean it works completely that it affords everybody completely us that protection against that exception and silence and just finally summon your idea about the socalled herd immunity in effect sweden say its worked for them. Not entirely sure it has im not sure many people would agree though. Certainly they were unable to protect all the people that carry residents by to shoot in a way that was a total failure and also this weeks do not know despite what they might tell you whether or not that so immunity will last a very long dr simon clarke really good of you to join us live today thank you for being with us. Well this like those are local lockdowns the government is pushing to get employees back at the office from today but it seems that Many Companies here in this country plan to defy the cols and keep staff working remotely more than 60 percent of employers expect some or all of their staff to carry on at home according to the british chambers of commerce among those companies and not west groups rolls royce scottish and Southern Energy b. P. And of either critics are concerned that city centers will become ghost towns if many continue to work from home while Boris Johnson gave bosses the power to tell them to return to the office instead of government telling people to work from home were going to give employers more discretion and ask them to make decisions about how their staff who work safely. Meanwhile the governments eat out to help out scheme to tempt the public back to restaurants and cafes and revive the hospitality sector got underway today don has got a 50 Percent Discount in participating outlets monday to wednesday capped at 10 pounds per person critics say that the scheme is over complicated and could lead to confusion as it covers only food and non alcoholic drinks we got reaction from venues and the public. Really nothing i think you would think its something thats encouraging if you want to come out still be able to save money where it might if they dont lets get right thinking about it be able to patronize and see i think right steve but he doesnt want to walk you know. Because of these things i think is a very good idea because we were going to look for the front end. And i can see being from god now in the restroom and some sense some of the stuff. So the sucking up the existing ones survive and im back i guess i notice that you have to scuff things because if i think so on one level its really noisy older people coming out of houses and even stuff on the other hand i do feel like its a common i want to show that we want to get the process out nor i saw a level of danger which is still kind of person so its a kind of way that presumably the place was actually my night i dont know how much it will help the economy. You know i think its in many ways kind of ideological already for economic. Still to call much of this hour a meeting think turnbull bills of wealth disparity has narrowed across the country in terms of earnings but has increased in terms of property and all the finances. And i could only credence in the best is maybe at risk as a survey shows of brechts of 10 academics feel the need to censor themselves ill be discussing this with a journalist and a policy expert from Queen Mary University shortly. The world is driven by a dream shaped by one person if there is. No dares thinks. We dare to ask. Join me every 1st week on the alex simon show and ill be speaking to us from the world of politics or business im show business ill see a. Crime has sold to pre lockdown levels across the u. K. According to the metropolitan police there were just over 19000. 00 and june in the capital above the average for that month lets have a 2000 more than in february when 817000 were reported 18600 were recorded in january a similar trend has been reported by the West Midlands police with its commissioner stating crime levels then had bounced back to data from the region shows that Violent Crime hit its highest rates in at least a year this june and was 17 percent higher than last year londons mass of the column has warned that a further easing of lockdown could lead to further rises combined with cuts to Law Enforcement and youth services. During the last decade of government austerity ministers slashed police and new services causing Violent Crime to rise in london and across the u. K. Now we are in danger of going back to square one under a new era of austerity as the government refuses to compensate londoners for the cost of cope at 19 this year also saw more killings in the capital with 17 homicides reported last month to more than last july and the highest number this year despite facing criticism over systemically measures the government says it is putting enough funding into the police. We have given london an unprecedented package of support and been clear about Police Forces across the country will get the financial backing they need to see them from a coronavirus pandemic and i was joined by a former Police Officer and policing expert at Liverpool John not Moores UniversityPeter Williams he thinks the spike in crime posed lockdown isnt surprising because of crime any crime bill is to see as we heard during the lockdown commented upon by the old secretary no less shoplifting reduced to all time lows not surprisingly exult shot to shot the same im afraid applies here in Violent Crime will far more serious issue that you picked up on peter let me just interject there because you mention the home secretary actually have what she had to say at the start of lockdown so just listen to this provisional data from police shows a full in overall crime during this coronavirus outbreak car crime burglaries shoplifting only lower than the same period from this time last year. But we also know that the most sophisticated criminals continue to exploit and capitalize on this horrendous crisis or part of the drop in crime is because everyones stuck at home. Yes completely and i asked pretty much the reason why the bounce back if it can turn a bit like that doesnt surprise me because its probably returning to some souls who normal mullet see and in that refers to that applies to crime rates of crime and crime figures as much as anything else. There is a theory out there which if so many listeners are probably aware of written by a very famous french sociologist and neal their current who of course says that a certain level of crime is perfectly normal in society and it shows that should extend it is you know we operating in a Healthy Society now whether or not you accept that or not obviously there are very grave concerns which youve commented upon bill in relation to cuba comments from the older men control crime and as a fact of life but just mention them on the med theyre saying that cuts to policing a new service isnt the real issue thats what i think counted said what do you make of that well after sept i think he has got a point and i would point of use in the area of the violence the violence crime strategic approach which eventually the government accepted an approach adopted if you like but with in the area of particularly im referring to knife crime now but of course had been operating very successfully in scotland for a number of years now the issue this is the crux here is which touches on what the law and the mess said is that this is a now a multi agency approach as opposed to just a Law Enforcement approach. In the next hour were joined by a security and intelligence expert to talk more about this. The wealth divide is shrinking across britain when it comes to monthly earnings but widening when property and other assets are taken into account the institute for fiscal studies says the difference between earnings in london the rest of the country has decreased since the beginning of the millennium wages grew more slowly in the capital only rising versus over one percent since 2002 but now Housing Trends are driving inequality across the Country Property and other world has increased in the 150 percent whereas in the northeast its gone up by just 3 percent well i offense is concerned that the pandemic will only exacerbate the Current Trends across the country but the treasury says this gives the government an opportunity to level up communities we want to cross party house of lords committees such as radical changes need to be made to universal credit by injecting 8000000 pounds into the system the committee particularly criticized the 5 week waiting period. Ill be talking to an Economic Expert about all of this in just over an hour from now. One of the Academic Freedoms at universities could be under fire as a survey shows that breaks it leaning academics feel they need to censor what they teach and discuss the policy Exchange Study has found that just over half of respondents would feel comfortable sitting for lunch or in a meeting with leave backing colleagues and well thats one nearly all remain backing academics feel comfortable expressing their views publicly but their british counterparts are likely to solve sense of their views in discussions due to a fear of consequences for their careers. The challenge today is a serious threat to Academic Freedom may now arise from within universities this internal threat vibes from the way that some of the university both students and faculty members relate to others on campus being willing to penalise them on the basis of their perceived or actual political views a number of right leaning thinkers have been no platform from universities in recent years including canadian professor Jordan Peterson german politician and us middle former trump advisor Steve Burnham the government promised to enforce freedom of speech but the general secretary of the university and College Union has claimed that the latest findings were false and that Academic Freedom is not under threat well from all of this im now joined by International Politics expert from Queen Mary University dr lee jones and spite contributor fraser myers thank you both for joining us fraser is there really a problem here this is a very small study after all. Well it might be a small study but its also not something that we kind of know to be going on anyway anyway you know we see often in the news there are these kind of you know quite high catching cases of no platforming speakers being banned from taking arts in bateson in and in talks we see you know academics who are sacked and censored sometimes unable to carry out certain Controversial Research but i think whats important about this particular report is that it highlights that that is just the tip of the ice broke in that there is a great deal of selfcensorship going on in academia where you know people who might have views that go across that kind of cross the kind of academical of the doxy feel as if they cant speak out and you know you mentioned right wing people in the introduction but it also highlights that a lot of left wing people feel the same way especially when it comes to talking about issues around transgenderism and you know academics who are you call themselves gender critical now thats a viewpoint thats coming from the left those are a feminist so its important to recognize that this is a problem across the political spectrum and not a left right issues that really that the actual topic here the issue here is breaks it well as fraser says the report doesnt actually focus on brets alone it does use that as an example and it finds of course that remains supporting people feel free to speak. Then leave supportive and thats not surprising at all given that the vast majority of academics backed remain and that actually reflects findings by one of the reports authors about students too that students also felt free to speak up with 4 main supporters and not if they were leap supported but as closer says the report is not simply about brets it it also asks about the left discriminating against right wing academics that like discriminating against leftwing academics. And uses the example of transgender issues as well because i have to say though that many of us just off our traditional left leaning and right wingers appear to be few and far between well not traditionally traditionally there was a balance so if you go back to the 1980s its roughly equal split on left and right then its become predominately left wing from the last couple of decades political views of become more aligned to education more educated you are the more left leaning you tend to be and so thats true across many of the professions in general but i think universities are the special responsibility you know its not the marketing or legal for universities have a responsibility to be a space where you can speak freely and debate freely right to engage in engage with the public freely and if theres groupthink emerging on University Campuses that is particularly dangerous because it undermines the very purpose of a university or is it what you make of that. I agree completely and i think often the you know you get the sense that academics have decided whether a certain area of research is a propre or not based on you know the kind that kind of preordained political conclusions when you know i could you know academia is about the search for the truth and that has to be unencumbered by you know factors like Political Correctness or whether an idea might be popular i mean there has been there have been cases for instance i think back to james caspian a psychotherapist who was told he was not allowed to do research into the phenomenon of the transitioning and his university gave the reasoning that because it would not be politically correct and people might be offended and his research might be criticised on social media so you know what we really need is to create a culture of free speech where academics feel that they can express not only their own views freely but look into areas writ of research that might lead to surprising or perhaps unpopular can conclusions and thats up to universities and indeed student unions because obviously you know the government wants to play a role in all of this we know they want to clamp down on what they see as issues of 3 speech. Yeah i think thats true but that is viewed by a lot of the left wing proponents on campus as being very hypocritical because of course the government also childes free speech on campus through the prevent duty. Which induces a lot of concern around any discussion of islam terrorism or extremism of any sort however one wants to define that and that itself is a big Chilling Effect so the problem with the free speech debate on campuses is that it getting wrapped up into a generalized culture of war that weve imported from the United States where the right can only bash socalled wolk academics who are trying to protect the left cubans from right wing views. But the right is blind to its own restrictions on free speech and Academic Freedom so what is needed is i think a repeal of the prevent duty and the new legal status of tree duty for university to protect freedom of speech on campus but it is very difficult for this government to take any action in a consensual and serious way until that takes the plank out of its own eyes so to speak by looking at prevent present interesting where some in this opposite in effect a culture war as he says. Yes thats right i think both sides are kind of unable to see free speech as what a free speech should be the point neutral you know its not a let it shouldnt be a left right issue and i think you know least correct there is i think there can be a danger with what the government is trying to doing to do it where you have in effect what i think is a contradiction in terms of thing and whats not like a free speech crackdown which doesnt make any real sense to me i think anything to be protections for academics just so i think there needs to be free speech protections for ordinary workers all across the country who are you know you can be victims of whats being called Council Culture so i think that the as you do it though with overzealous student unions how do you deal with that. Well i think there it is very hard to deal with because it that is something that does have to be dealt with internally because you know that many of the issues raised in the report are you know questions of selfcensorship or questions of people not feeling that they can speak out you cant create a law that suddenly makes people feel comfortable airing now views that has to be a kind of cultural shift i think one thing that could be done is for universities and their government to change tack a little bit universities themselves are often in suits saying various rules against you know freedom of speech they often have all kinds of regulations that make it. Quite easy for student unions to find excuses to vent or you know they will give make or these kind of ridiculous security agree quire meant a certain controversial guess which means that you know events then dont take place so i think you know universities can do something there the government can do something by repealing many of the laws that it has against free speech and what a society particularly hate speech laws ok students will quote you know u. K. Law as a as a kind of excuse for striking down hate so that wider issue needs to be challenged thank you fraser for the lets have the closing comments now from lee. I agree with a lot of what fraser suggesting i do think student unions are separate universities student unions of private association essential in those should be left to do what they like like any trade Union Universities have especially through duty to uphold freedom of speech on campus and theyre not currently doing in my view is that although its only a minority of people who are sense or ears at this report points out its like all academics are in favor of you know sacking people with views they dont like thats not the case but i think that the culture in universities as gone too far towards censoring people who have controversial opinions and at this point government and Government Intervention is probably required to reset the clock on this i think a new statutory duty is required. To have to boost maybe the power of the office for students of this report suggests with an Academic Freedom ombudsman to find universities that dont uphold freedom of speech on campus and Academic Freedom because if theyre not doing that then theyre not really universities or universities are the only place in society where you can debate freely or ought to do a debate for the if they dont uphold that right then theres nothing special about. Ok thank you very much indeed for debating this with us here on r. T. U. K. Dr lee jones and fraser myers thank you both for your time and thats it with more in half an hour from the. Can. Eat. Eat eat eat eat eat eat. Eat how can you explain love. Ive been to 82 countries i did in 12 that i came here and on those 3 days i just felt at home. I love cold weather i like the culture i like the history i like everything