That trump from the trump you worked with in the white house. Well i think the change you know Michael Collins said hes changed ive said hes changed us all like im a rose that i was with her 20 years has said hes changed. I see a more real person i see a person its losing whatever level of attention that he had its gotten more narrow and i see a person that is really regressing into childhood in terms of the way they handle criticism in the way they take in input and so it is his way or the highway were running the u. S. Administration like a one man broadway play there are no other actors or supporting players on stage with him and the result of which is because a nightmare inside ministration and its led to this crisis and mismanagement of the pandemic which is then led to the debacle in the economy so. Alternately it will be a referendum on mr trump i think hell lose handily of the book the woodward book then the book by the nice comments made by his sister or the Michael Cohen book that just came out they just continue to pile on so you know i grew up in a blue collar family my dad said to me when you had a stone you have a sledgehammer hit a big piece of granite it may not break after 50 hits and then maybe youre on a 70 if nothing happens and then sure enough on the 71st hit a rock explodes and i think metaphorically thats applicable here because this stuff doesnt seem like that perfect mr trump but i think it is affecting them and i think youll see this sort of demolition prior to the november 3rd referendum which is why youre supporting a man who allegedly runs a campaign from a basement who is often seen on camera not understanding things who clearly supported messing cusser a should use this Remote Control i would be supporting the Remote Control you know any am an object would be doing a better job mr trump hes made the country weaker or hes made the country poorer and hes made the country sicker and by the way i mean the guy is pretty fit Vice President biden you saw right now bicycle hes hes going to go ok well i got to tell you the pick out of the death rate from groan of ours is was here in britain then the United States as a as you seek to support the trashing of a. Covert reputation no i would really seek to support trashing him on trial would get it very objective we actually you know i dont why the racial bellicosity in a blue collar family we are a family of immigrants i dont like and john people who go back to the countries that the originally came from thats what they told my grandmother 100 years ago i dont like the bullying of private. Citizens whether its lori palau or my wife your hero i dont like the deconstruction of western alliance that is alternately lead to great peace and it hasnt prosperity for most of the quote that hes deconstructing so now theres a whole series of things that he is doing that you can look at energy actively if you well america and you want peace and global prosperity you have to reject him at the polls isnt it is it peace or is it are is it actually and the thing objective leads and you guys in the us weve got to get somebody else in there thats not nuts its really that is it peace or is it actually war he denies the atlantic magazine remote looks that he apparently said there is an inbuilt military Industrial Complex one thing were in he doesnt want war all i heard him say those remarks because when i was on the Campaign Plane with him and i mentioned to him that i had done troop support missions in iraq and afghanistan and even shocked you like you know why the hell would you do that and you know what you saw at risk and then he would go into the diatribes that are being reported in the atlantic so we know the same this stuff is just surprising that it didnt come out earlier magnitude what he said ok away from the alleged insults all of america sure its made a point about the wars. I dont like the worse i dont like the situation in iraq or afghanistan but i also dont like the threat of terrorism here in the homeland of the United States or in or in Great Britain so there is a unfortunately you know anybody who has read an intelligence briefing related to all this knows how complex this is and theres no theres no decision on the matrix of decisions it isnt complicated it is difficult to make. Sense its very simple there are forces in the military Industrial Complex that want wards and as. For the threat of terrorism it is precisely because of policies but bill clinton by both george bushs thats what caused it and of course he didnt youre youre you know at least to eisenhower now he hasnt read the speech he doesnt understand that speech and hes sitting there very flippantly saying derogatory things about the generals but hes also missing the fact that the listed men and women in the service we just burned our minutely republican our guest said yes that hes the most unpopular commander in chief in modern u. S. History which is good news for the United States because hes trying to move the United States to an autocracy you got a guy when the military is he doesnt have it these people rally dislike him when youre youre bringing up Something Else about the wars i dont like the wars i think there was a mistake to go into iraq but this is now with 20 years of hindsight and reflection i dont like it tacked on the World Trade Center 19 years ago ive been on wall street for 32 years i lost scores of friends in the World Trade Center in one very close friend and i eulogized his children. And 9 and 719 years ago so i dont like that either so you know and i know we live in a very very complex world and you can just look at the actions and the antics of President Trump and know that hes unfit to serve as the american president and i would make the case even through it to our adversaries you want somebody more stable in that job and you want somebody a little bit more predictive ball and you want somebody that actually really does want peace and prosperity views right now this guy is reeling while hes lost inside a pinball machine ok it was actually eisenhower i was the game about well just finally Nobel Peace Prize nominee that is not why i is now are that you would i mean im going to have to stipulate that on this t. V. Show the Nobel Peace Prize nominee as such. Donald trump he once said we love wiki leaks theres a big trial going on here for the press freedom Amnesty International have been barred from the courtroom here love of control to see over the English Court proceedings any chance that the Job Administration could to stop maybe the white house decides to stop the extradition of julian asunder to the United States i dont need to do a web app prior to election so all i have to see what he does after the referendum but you know thats a political hot potato that i dont think anybody wants to touch inside the white house right now and again you and i both know how complex that situation is and you know and i think your democracy and our democracy and it is being threatened by a very surgical very careful all. Militia it happens to be an intelligence militia and its based on social media and its trying desperately to demean the russians i mean the russia has yeah oh you mean the russians. Well you know what i mean come on you know what i mean i honestly know jesse out to the other reporters and tell you your viewers are intelligence you you know what i mean and by the way heres the thing when you read this stuff and you know this stuff and you see this you can see this stuff when you hear this youre this and so silence is a form of complicity when youre looking at a situation like this and you knew i was that the american president has made the country weaker sicker or less state all and more divided you have to speak if you love the country and if you love the world you also have to speak out because you know that a more stable administration somebody that could orchestrate the administration and who are needed it which would lead to a more prosperous American Economy which helps the world and could put down the pandemic i understand you have the same problems in Great Britain and its been a failure for both countries but but the president had the information he told what were they had the information he knew it was 6 times more deadly but he decided to play it down. You cant do that when you are the response of all. The American Government you cant you know when you have the most secret position in Public Service in america if not the world ok and you cant do that scarlett you cant do it man and his care will take thank you he said he said it was so that the American People didnt panic thank you after the break the support of evangelicals with a sense of history like you will probably understood is a game changer in u. S. Politics and in the 400 years of the mayflower were about to see history on the 17th century i believe catch up with my states big time ahead of a us president ial election with biblical significance coinciding with the 400th anniversary of the mayflowers arrival in the United States we investigate how the event as a vote might be the most significant in the history of the so called city on the hill told us all coming up in part 2 of going on the ground. The world is driven by a dream shaped. By dares thinks. We dare to ask. A new gold rush is underway and gonna thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich is a good. As. Those that work children a tool in between gold. My family was very poor i thought i was doing my best to get back to school which side will have the strongest appeal. Welcome back involved one we heard from Donald Trumps former White House Communications director thats the scary movie about what he sees as the existential threat trump poses to the United States but many in the country some of the 70 percent who identify as christians see trump as not only their president but their savior head of an election that coincides with the 400th anniversary of the mayflower arriving in the United States well today is the voyager of anniversary of the start of the voyage before 1000 restrictions were in place we spoke to martin wizard whose book trump and the puritans is out now arjun welcome to going underground tell me about the book and why novembers election is not the discontinuity that were led to believe by some Mainstream Media outlets or basically our premise is that you can only understand the modern United States in 2020 but understanding something of its deep story where people think theyre coming from how they read their history even their mythology and that if you look at the United States purely as a modern phenomenon then you come away utterly bemused that all job is not to be written off as an idiot nov 2020 should be read in the context of another anniversary this year the 400th anniversary of the mayflower just go through that with me we would argue so its a curious combination of events in november no less even the same month that november 2020 is both the date of the next us president ial election but of course its also the 400th anniversary of the arrival of the mayflower on the shores the Eastern Shores of the United States in massachusetts and our premise is that vats of what followed the huge him flocks of puritans in the 630 something called the great migration created a really significant contribution to the d. N. A. Of the usa which obviously has changed developed over the years 18th century like a century 20th century but nevertheless makes the United States quite unlike any other comparable western democracy for example 2014. Very Detailed Research showed that Something Like 70 percent of adult americans identify themselves as christian and those adult americans Something Like 26 percent identify themselves as evangelicals over that 26 percent Something Like 81 percent voted for donald trump in 2016 the support of evangelicals with their sense of history rightly or wrongly understood is again change in u. S. Politics and in the 400th year of the mayflower were about to see history and the 17th century i believe catch up with United States big time ok well lets go back a little from from there to the mayflower you summarize the brutality against the native americans this is all part of the thread that you spin right through to today and at the same time you say this implicit influence is enjoying in say steve bannon when he took on the clintons deplorable pents in the n. T. Climate change ideas and the science abortion rights all of this we can trace to those initial massacres of native americans and the type of christianity that was burgeoning in the east coast i think to be fair to the bay flower curiously enough although this is the year that kind of kicks off the big puritan influence in america the mayflower settlers at plymouth actually as the case of the fence had a pretty Good Relationship with native americans they were if you like far more tolerant than some of the ones that followed them know which is were burnt at plymouth and the ones that were earlier before the mayflower absolutely yes failed callies yes absolutely no quakers were hanged plymouth but but the key thing is that what happened in 1620 was was the proving that a puritan a godly american was possible and what happened from 1630 on words which people often forget is there was a Huge Movement of. People who are dissatisfied with the state in this country to the north american colonies and so between at 1630 and the early 16 forties literally thousands of people someplace called the great migration moved into what we now call new england and set up for example the colony of Massachusetts Bay and in Massachusetts Bay rather than in Plymouth Colony which is more tolerant to the south we see something of quite a theocracy being established its in Massachusetts Bay for example the 1690s we have the salem witch hunts its in reaction to whats going on there that we have appalling massacres of native americans in king philips war for example in the sixtys seventys so although the mayflower if you like is the iconic this is this is the year we pin this on i think in defense of the mayflower settlers it was the next generation and the next influx of people into the east coast of america forming these puritan bible called common wells that created much more of these hard line theocracies in Massachusetts Bay and also continued that sense of the alien other that sense of america being a New Jerusalem they even referred to in north america as being an american canaan this idea about having crossed the Jordan Jordan with the atlantic into a Promised Land for the Promised Land read north america they were creating if you like an american israel and i think its something that that sense of exceptional nurse that sense of providential calling that i think particular that next generation of puritans have contributed to in effect the modern usa and it runs and runs from there ill get to israel in a 2nd to mike pompei or what i did was a former president a former cia director but even the roman catholics are watching you tie it up this original purity. Idea of a religious sect in these United States u. K. Up there with. Successive lives jews absalom of catholics it didnt matter the excess. Journalism is a d. N. A. That runs through no matter what you believe it is the idea of american ness that sort of thing exactly because clearly in the 400 years since the mayflower americas changed on all comprehension huge influx of Eastern Europe russians poles people from southerners all those days always werent catholic with French Colonial is absolute absolutely so so were not arguing for for a simple puritan thread what were saying is that all the amazing changes are taken place in the north america you know the movement of jewish people the movement of muslim people and so on although it is change huge since 1620 that theres something thats been entered into the american d. N. A. A romance if you like which often glosses over brutality and violence and so the exceptionalism can be seen in iraq afghanistan libya syria iran renders ways nicely the exception is and comes from there and you say doesnt matter of your republican or democrat obama channeled the city on the hill was the city or the hills its an important idea in the american thats all thats a very good question the city on the hill was a phrase that was used in 1630. 00 as this next generation on the socalled winthrop fleet arrived to found Massachusetts Bay and the idea was that what was happening in america was going to be an inspiration to the world that effectively they were creating in north america a New Jerusalem in the new world a new israel in the new world as it were and that what they were going to do that would be like a city on a hill that the world would look to them and see something extraordinary happening there that phrase a city on a hill for example its quoted by j. F. K. As quoted article twice by ray gurn its a british referred to by President Trump its the concept that america is this unique state this unique exceptional experiment which the world looks to now obviously that. Very attractive if youre american it can be a little galling perhaps if youre not an american because obviously there is exceptional sense to that but that i think is needed to put something to say about ive tried to diplomatic but clearly that has spoken very powerful the american consciousness ok but the christian right that gets around donald trump and all drama is going to appear with on the television you also talk about how they would be able to forgive the. World their own personal foibles of the president by quoting or at least name checking in a rainy and leader. Cyrus absolute its quite curious isnt it that we see we see a persian king a persian prince being used as the comparison for donald trump and the state would have to explain that the story thats going on here is that is that in the Old Testament in the jewish scriptures we have this image at times of people who are who are not part of the religious community being instruments in the hands of god and within the Old Testament there is this king called cyrus and if you if you google him youll find him if you can coordinate says of christian bible you find him in the Old Testament the jewish part of the bible and cyrus is a person in the Old Testament who does things for gods people according to gods plan says the Old Testament although he is not jewish although he is not one of the one of the chosen people although he is not of the people of god so more than evangelicals quote him again and again and again and again and they look at somebody like President Trump and they say i know is imperfect. I can live with the attitudes the accusations of immorality with women and sons over i can live with the coarseness i can live with a barrage of tweets because im not talking back in this man because i see him has a more exemplar i see him as this of course is the big question an instrument in the hands of god achieving what we need to achieve in 2024 to move cyruss in the south of the Islamic Republic of iran you sure that despite all this religious d. N. A. Running through the history of the United States you talk about something called the treaty of tripoli which the government of the us is not in any sense founded on the christian religion but this was a treaty with islam well im not sure this isnt a schoolbooks what liturgy of tripoli its extraordinary isnt it basically the treaty of tripoli libya yes yes well have more to libya but we have the treaty of tripoli which we go back to some 200 years was an attempt of the new. Really minted American Republic you know were talking the next generation of the declaration of independence breaking away from british imperialism trying to create its own trading arrangement with a north african state and that the treaty is formed and in order to reassure the people that they are working with they say there has never been a conflict between america and what mohammedans as they would they would call the. Islamic test head is not to be the phrase was used at the time but thats whats meant and actually ironically says america is not and never will be and has been a christian state or a secular state and one of the curious things of course is that america is officially a secular state we have a complete separation of church and state that there is if you like a head albeit one nation under god and thats a curious thing because america has this curious dichotomy whereas on one hand it is a it is a completely secular state there is no state church there is there is no statement of Christian Faith and yet on the other hand there are very very strong constituency that that argue that the the d. N. A. Of america is so intrinsically christian that effectively it should be christianity thats informing the National Dialogue more than any other state so you have this curious thing the treaty of tripoli that says this is a secular state we can get on with muslims we go with anybody and you have modern evangelicals who are saying effectively we think that it should be christianity and a christian concept those of that is in form in the National Dialogue and this informing the for the formation of america morality when britain is in bombing libya probably unaware of the treaty of tripoli to honor it it peo said at one point god sent trump to protect israel from iran you kept on mentioning israel the new israel how did you see the deal of the century and the streams of d. N. A. In. The deal of the century and thats where the trouble ministration is. Israel is quite a fascinating concept within if you like the puritan d. N. A. Contribution in one sense american puritans and they fed this into the d. N. A. If you like saw themselves as being like an american israel so in always being a replacement if you like that the new israel the new chosen people if you like americans you actually find this phrase you know to me it was very right here is that yes yes not native american who may european incomers but but puritans also had this sense that they were living in the last days that they were living they were looking towards the 2nd coming of christ and therefore even while they were describing themselves as being like a latter day a modern day israel there was still this sense that god had not finished with the jewish people that wonder the jewish people return to a home in palestine that would precede the 2nd coming of christ and what we see in a sense where where policy meets apocalypse if you like in the modern evangelical movement is that sense of viewing israel not simply as one other state amongst many within the middle east but being a state for which there is if you like a divine mandate at the moment whats become what was always been since 9048 a traditional support for israel from the United States is actually now developing into much more of a religious crusade and a christian fortune here and the end the jews will go to hell well the day of judgment we have a curious situation here for eternal hell is where for example trump himself is on record as saying that when he when he makes statements about the annexation of the Golan Heights when he makes statements about and of course move the embassy to jerusalem that he gets more letters from christian evangelicals praising him for doing this than he does for American Jews because traditionally as a broad statement the American Jewish community has. More inclined to is democrats but there is a sense in which many of these christian groups see israel as but take a key part in and towing events leading to the end of the world and therefore the american support for israel is basically lining itself with the right side of providence letter with a thank you my pleasure martin was expecting to be there in his book trump on the puritans is out now and thats it for the show will be back on saturday when we ask a lawyer who helped win the historic amazon deal about why he faces prison without a jury trial until then keep safe to join the underground on you tube sound cloud incident and facebook. Will justice be done in a london court not only is julian assumption on trial but so is freedom of speech and profession of journalism what explains this farce of Media Coverage of this trial why havent more journalists spoken out and is the sun being used as far as you need for those. To be. Religious near those who really can show you. With that. Something that. You know none of us. Good to see youre. Doing your. Mr spirit i believe you are. Sure. To move to. Ringback russia calls on germany to stop politicizing the alleged poisoning of russian opposition figurehead of the valley and say its up to moscow to clarify how im going to treat grave nerve agent was reportedly used on the country soil. Get snooping thats the call from officials in the u. K. He want people to sneak sean anyone breaking new code of. Oh im not going to. See is that basically what. I put in place i. Mean if somebody. With coronavirus case is going to u. K. The countrys testing system is said to be a breaking point we hear
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