Good bye sean. This week in a screeching u. Turn and in an apparently chaotic manner the johnson government announced a new month Long National lockdown in england starting today but this is a lockdown with a difference schools universities and key workplaces remain open hospitality house parties and holidays are forbidden elsewhere across these islands things are different wills is already a week into a much stricter to be close time while Northern Ireland is half way through month long restrictionists scotland this week saw the introduction of a 5 regionally based system today we asked to Public Health experts whether these measures contain the virus across the u. K. While the world awaits a vaccine professor harvey burns a former chief medical officer of scotland is a new president of the British Medical Association he is in a unique position to assess and assesses whether the virus can be brought back under control through these tight or Public Health restrictions dr coming out of extra medical school has over 20 Years Experience in Communicable Disease control and infectious Disease Controlling and this he worked as a consultant in Communicable Disease control for local authorities arent Public Health and the agency which is though being bullied inspired you kick up ministers for the failure of taste in trees out to be in conversation with our 2 guests later but 1st your messages treats and emails on last weeks show last week show on black history martins excited great interest and many responses we hear 1st time in patterson who says all History Matters but i wouldnt pull down any statues i didnt like in marshall says the problem isnt history the problem is to the history is written by or presented on t. V. And all the sudden its official it even says we never got taught Scottish History when i was at school donald says that as another amazing black lady me to see a cool jamaican scot that massively helped medicine to better hygiene getting the crimean war and every bit the equal to florence and. Richard lindsey says excellent show joint bonds always the voice of reason when talking about racism really put a lot of people in their place when liam neeson spoke of his experience i had my bind see a lot physics cheap mints both on and of the field and finally nelson says Jock Thompson and then that will forever of mind us that we are all of us and of whatever origins of equal value common in the culture of scottish people now over to alex with professor heidi burns and talk to. So how did bob uncertain we now have a renewed lot of those of sorts coming in england with a soft and political in wales and scotland has a a 5 brought weiser so difficult to get there the key message isnt Public Health across and get less pandemic under control of access something that i would often say but ive got less sympathy for the politicians. And the damage thats done by a knockdown is significant and that governments are going to are having to train or we have balancing it no i think we own scotland Northern Ireland and so and have all of our in slightly different approaches i think scotland began harsh on lockdown if you like it has that have the highest rates of transmission some time ago and were known to be getting to see now working and i think anglo and has waited a bit and i think that had to stricter outcome so its about trying to do the best you can and the circumstances youve caught but i just think that england of probably we had a bit too long to be honest whats happening in the north of england if you look at a Significant Movement dont have you have said that intends a real epidemic control you have to minister that and the level that local level if what you mean by that the thing with a particular. Well what we need is local experts and we do have them so little authorities have all the consultants in Public Health there and then we also have the local Public Health england an equivalent in the other nations experts in Communicable Disease control these are the keep players they are the linchpin the commanders in chief and they should be leading their outbreaks locally because they have the network and the network is with the hospitals the market casting the Environmental Health officers and they know if there is a rising tide if there is quiet if there is calm or if there are concerns and they can respond very dynamically on a day to day hour by hour basis and therefore they should be meeting every day and you know you have it as a command and control center for under locally rather than from far away reach a london or elsewhere. Minus a meal so much difficulty and getting tested and trace operating across these islands i mean weve had this week that slovakia has tested hof the complete in 2 days this is november of the vita started spreading alyea media why isnt that sort of thing possible in the u. K. Youre absolutely right its very frustrating you know if you equate to straight about it because i started talking about it this way back in march and were told that availability of the chain is limited were told to the process that said bottle of good tasting and then an icing the stuff and then reporting and so on is difficult actually not convinced that the management of the whole process has been effective and a lot of that management has been outsourced i agree absolutely the local public house is the way to go here right from the beginning and my own university we were offering opportunities for crap. Zoran but we were told no no the government wanted to do. Particular way and i just dont think its been reached i really dont see why and i spoke just last week about proving tasting and up here and i was told that the kind of trash that i was suggesting whered be a little sore and theres no reason why he shouldnt because other countries as you say are doing it so its very frustrating and its the way out of this test isa to magic people find out who will go asymptomatic is carrying and potentially spreading the virus and isolate them thats the way to drop this and get it from no dairy quickly but it can carry the testing local level i mean whats wrong with the these big light post Tasting Samples that the the governor of a stylist a member violently capable of of doing the the job on a. Scale that are necessary to meet this crisis well its also a scattergun approach the scattergun approach is weve said all floodgates open go and get a test well thats not the way to run a outbreak control give you an example of when we dealt with the swine flu pandemic we met with a lot of our tree staff every day and we couldnt work out where the pinch points were and how we would run the operations whereas when youve got if far away at lighthouse labs it is doing it at scale but it is not responsive locally it can never be responsive locally and then we introduced what you would call it failures of communication the n. H. S. Labs at the touch of a button would have alerted the patient the g. P. The hospital and any other place it needed to inform about the test result of here weve had to set up and create new networks with new permissions to enable all this communications to happen so a number of things have gone wrong if only we had stayed with what we know what we know works best. So how to balance scotland and england for that matter we have originated Public Health control so often factions diseases so why if i can it be that having that resource of knowledge over the years we found this particular virus so difficult to get a get a hold off i think in part its due to the fact that this virus is very very and infectious and spreading many whitely mean point and when we manage to suppress the number of cases. In margins or in any pro and then we got sporadic outbreaks in local Public Health departments where danny very effective. And then we lifted Interest Rate she was we opened up hospitality and so on and it began to spread like wildfire and local Public Health departments became quite well and you know a lot of the guys i speak to are literally being run ragged by whats happening so we need more extensive controls but critically we need people to and she used to those groups it is still for st tng to hear people say oh we dont care you know this is terrible all these rules were just going to go oh were going to have parties were going to have christmas together and store and. If you meet with people and you dont do it distance and you dont wear masks and store and you increase significantly the spread of the virus and its it is basically counts violet me attention classes are remote land on line at the present moment. It was preserved in the you know this is a a tragic and serious a condition but presumably your students must of views this as a as a tremendous example of of a living real life example of what it really means to be an. In a pandemic situation are you talking to both the the cases you should go on at the present moment yes i am so i take liberty with deviating from my brief of what subject i was covering to say i will cover that subject but lets cover this right now whilst the iron is hot and weve started doing even tutorials late at night its kind of clock we meet we discuss and we move forward and its really good for the students who are joining us so they are learning in real time and they will grow up to be experts they are also be willed it and concerned and not sure about why weve had so many im bill and messages so when i tell them that in an outbreak you need a commander in chief and the commander in chief does the following and this is how you do it you get all the people around the table would discuss the strategy and then we do it and then my students say how come england or the United Kingdom isnt doing it in that manner and i say well when politics and health interfere it becomes difficult so out of us would think that theyre in the cases of a lot of talk about the students going back home for christmas those students have gone on to campus would that be an example of where we should have a test of all of these people to make sure youre not releasing back into the homes of our own the come to do the right in the world if people who are asymptomatic but infected yeah i think and have basic. Needs that to make a case to anything to is exchangeable to store strange and continuing that wintered story i mean its not that difficult when it is things that we proposed and the order was casting we slaughter from wholesome precedents it was there is evidence that the want of the affluent from any. Building in storage if its anywhere in that building is in fear. It was crude and iris you can do a fortune so why dont you know theres a 400 students hall of president s change to a shorter if you get closer to kishi do you have to go into. The place. That was too difficult. Join us after the break we will look at how the experience thus far can translate into perhaps better practice over the coming months to get this virus under control and will cast into lustily a stock which companies have been more successful and tackling coronavirus so innocent. People say droll pals untalented and worthless but you see how difficult that is do blast the money gun it takes some skill they had to go to Ivy League College or the company end up doing good work over. Some control from middle class to homeless overnight most of them are very hard working people who want to get ahead that have either have some some Health Issues or have some of how this trick of bad luck a full time job werent always pay for a place to live and missing just a months rent can get you with victim to gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. You better catch up real quick or youre going to have a judgment of possession against you and get addicted by anyone thats homeless is history like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time its not the case see how it is to be paul in the worlds richest country. Welcome back out of continues his interview with dr pipe and cognac im professor heidi burns and asked the question will this really all be over by christmas. Caught up on talia from extra university which is say the public a really understanding the Public Health messages i mean theres been a lot of delivery of them but other the public really taking them to heart thus far you know and it is very disappointing weve had so many mixed messages and i feel now the public also have got messages fatigue and they are consciously or subconsciously switching off we need to have an our act together and get simple clear understandable messages not too many layers not too many tears just get a simple straightforward Public Health messages out there and repeat them reinforce that. Holly bonds is generally said and i think accepted that communication at least of policy has been better in scotland the elsewhere certainly a man with a heart can not communication be improved follow up to try and drive these messages whole i think so and i think part of the problem in england has been its change tracks so often you know were not going to have lockdown or not we better have a lot of this kind of thing so people become a bit confused and frustrated is Scottish Parliament is closer to the people the people of scotland have better access to their politicians and thats faith how thoughtful people see the politicians the see the clinical director of the sea the chief medical officer and still in very regularly explaining things and our National Political narrator jason leach tree example you know he appears on sports programs that we can dog food in the store and taking peoples questions this kind of saying still there is more excess ability in scotland its difficult policy but as i stated beginning ministers are trying to be hard to keep the economy growing as best as possible while suppressing the virus and i have to say that i think im probably right in trying to achieve our uncertain way theyre doing it class kind of on supply of so much being outsourced to private companies in terms of testing those many stories of retired Health Professionals volunteering the savva sister to help with their some even getting an answer while the private company is given your shed loads of money to to do things perhaps not very well i think its outrageous i really do i think. We have an experiment that we have and you know it is a very tired people we have volunteers who were. If you do test and trace insurance and yet its going to these private organizations and i think we need to know how much is being spent on that sustain the poor has been spent on this in england and it Northern Ireland scotland drought its just feels like. Our lack of overall management to the to this day a complex process it could be done more efficiently and more effectively i think is that for the station and they will adopt a county of that. The. Privatization of past and face is happening while many local authorities as weve seen from recent weeks feel themselves dreadfully under resourced and terms of the the local Public Health. Its a disaster and its outrageous and so i agree with what senator kerry burns just said because why why do you want to set up a private casting laboratory and a private contractor racing service which will never ever work as efficiently as if you had invested in your local n. H. S. Services and systems in both the local authority in the n. H. S. And in Public Health england if we look at least Staggering Amount of money spent 12000000000 pounds that is the equivalent of the empire budget of all the g. P. S. And Public Health combined now if we had used that money to instead set up systems Contact Tracing systems in local authorities in local Public Health england areas we would have a asset to the nation and a set that can be used 18 months 24 months from today because when we have sporadic outbreaks we will need local of our tree capacity and local outbreak tracing services we wont have the centralized systems in existence then so weve lost an asset to the nation it is a big mistake to have made a dot com if you cast your eye world wide for a 2nd or 2 which of the countries the you feel have had the best left of the us far in getting a grip of this pandemic south korea without a doubt and if you look at the south korean interventions it was early thats the key point early hard fast and strict so there when 1000 early with their control measures now wendy and hard meaning no half measures and ever strict about enforcement and them and making sure you wore your mask you took Infection Control seriously and now look they sorted out their health and as a result their economy is also sorted out so i i mirror what harry burns was saying. Which is you sort out the howth and you will sort out the economy in tandem so to tell me as a healthy person they kaname is being trashed i disagree the economy is being trashed because you failed to sort out simple Public Health measures to make both economy and how to run tandem together and so honeybunch your. Favorite example from round the world the presently that we could take real lessons from rome and present and have places like south korea and so on and japan and sort of have done very well but interesting places for me are places lancaster area new zealand where a lot of towns have been very successful in interesting me in new zealand and its clear that people have been very trustful of their government so this you know in suppressing the virus to lock now in these kind of things is one thing but the other thing is having Public Confidence in the process and places like new zealand have definitely should not how high a medical doctor 5 carlia without this renewed locked out and then wouldnt have got the 5 tier system of scotland alyea but in wales the pursuit of what the cost suck it but i. Do think that mr clifford and wales are going to have success of 1st minister and getting a grip on the virus for that suck up theyre going to have to continue that although a longer period to get the virus under control i think a longer period is also required because wales is not an island within an island and therefore whatever happens in england will translate into wales as well and therefore i personally would like a unified Public Health approach across all the nations it is unfortunate that we have a 61. 00 worsham in scotland Northern Ireland. Wales and then in england because wales is a very close neighbor of england and the population is in england there will be movements and when there are a movement whatever happens in england will also happen in wales therefore we need to synchronize the control measures in both the countries at the same time otherwise you are hurting one economy whilst the other economy creates all the cases which will then come and in fact your people that you were trying to prevent from getting infected or bombs as a call for a unified policy across England Wales the scotland would would that work well and it wasnt just thinking at the moment but yet system in scotland and i know that some entity beyond would just suggest that he if he hears like lawyers for the central down route have stricter rules that will control more effectively whats happening in those he as the chief everyone in 2 years will continue to see problems and they will gradually grow up to the point were they will need stricter rules insurance so that is an argument if that if that actually is what happens that is an argument for consistency across the u. K. But what happens if the consistency is the wrong policy as perhaps if a number of changes were seen from Prime Minister johnston that way it will be the case. Couldnt consisted. Of is what im suggesting we need we need to be quite strict about it yes so how to bombs have i can ask you to pick the hot on this president the but his medical association for a 2nd of these the global matters that your members are thinking about what are they so a mass than the a me just say of the crisis that they cant look forward to see whats to come i am working with royal colleges since ornge to begin to think im proud. How do we prevent this happening again to mark how much he is much creature the lord of misrule shit so is he who read skill you go and that its just another argument for dealing with it it probably to no society is a Sustainable Development and economy that works to provide well be for everyone and society is the long term objective for this and we mustnt miss the opportunity to meet that argument about what the politicians seem to be focusing a lot of christmas us on the style of us a great family a patient but a facility a virus doesnt recognize a. Religious festivals of n. L. Of time of the doesnt know of course not and im concerned that we are already giving out mixed messages christmas 2020 can not be the same as all our christmases my advice is look advice people now that you need to have fewer human contacts for christmas going to 20 in western yourself so that you are well able and in good spirits in 2021 thats the way to go i absolutely agree you get the spiders to close contact with other human beings and theyre far from the 1st time ever we are not going to have a Family Christmas Party for sure we will have her zuko with the family and that will be what we do its a safe isolated state with your mask and hand washing and shortage and you will be safe to enjoy next year so how to balance thought about it by kolya thank you so much for joining me on the alex aman chill thank you thank you many countries to struggled with handling covert and most western European Countries to sleep wealth into a 2nd wave of the deadly virus. What is most disappointing is that many of these countries actually pioneered Public Health control in the days when Infectious Diseases were most often by that cure or effective treatment so why has it proven so difficult to implement Disease Control or an effective test interest system and the why is it so difficult to deliver a clear Public Health messages with all the advantages of Martin Communications and why has it not been possible to copy the success of the far east countries who hold their Public Health systems in response to sars vietnam china singapore and japan or australia or new zealand or the nordic countries in europe or canada and north a medical event as well and you decry and south america to a greater or lesser extent these countries have to cover it so why not across the British Isles across the you can island that and i know of less than 5 minute separate policies of Disease Control until we and indeed and if a weeks time would be looking at the success or otherwise of the measures in island north and 6 which are halfway through the implementation this at least will have the advantage of getting an insight into what works and even more importantly what to see a lot on these lessons much depends but for now from alex myself and all that the shoe stacy i hope to see you again next to our thank god. Now why oh why dont you go down with the white house. In the swamp or how i dont think if the phone. Calls and the. Top that come on itll kill a power oh man. One of. The star of a. 6 2 some control for a middle class to who most of the night most of our very hard working people who want to get ahead that have either have some some Health Issues or have some of how to trick about luck a full time job moon told lies pay for a place to live and missing just a months rent can get you a victim to gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. You better catch up real quick or youre going to have a judgment of possession against you and get addicted anyone thats homeless is history like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time its not the case see how it is to be pull in the worlds richest country. Lawsuit scores to stop the ballots counts allegations of electoral fold and the error is to send angry crowds on the streets thats how the 2020 us president ial election is going so far no definitive results if you have been announced but both candidates are suggesting what. We discuss with americas minor parties the libertarians and greens on how people are given no real choice from the republicans and democrats. I dont know if libertarians or other 3rd party sure will ever consistently get a high note