A mess weve made of our justice not just in the last few years, but the foot from the century. We spent time just, you know, looking people up for no reason trying to criminalize drugs with no good to be want and even put children in prison as you know from the police, just insane. So we have a completely dysfunctional system and hospital all the shes working on the side of the system. I just think its about time the people on the outside notice, like, you know, we covered the plight of julian assange, the world famous journalist, the un special rapporteur, meals meltzer has been on this program, alleging he was being tortured at belmarsh prison in london. You know, some people, i dont know, some Mainstream Media newspapers call it the holiday camps, these british presence, you begin the book and bell much. I do understand horrific place. Its terrible to be easy. As a visitor, as a lawyer, it takes a long time to get even is a busy time, actually be an inmate there, its soul destroying. I mean, i went to the special secure unit there and i saw clients in there and you know, describe the conditions in the book. Its a soul is bleak, miserable place, designed to do nothing of the human spirit. And i genuinely see anyone has been anytime to which of course, some people say thats what it should be like. But in the book you quote peter clarke lead 29 u. K. Chief prison inspector, claiming comparisons with before the 18th twentys. We are a situation where some of our prisons are no better in the way they treat people than 200 years ago, or even in some cases 2000 years ago. You know, we particularly at the moment, i mean, i suppose supply and yesterday i suppose are not on friday. They are being locked up for 23 hours a day in a small box. Now if that isnt of course psychological torture designed to do nothing but make people go crazy and actually come out of prison and commit more crimes that i dont know what its all the, some of the defendants actually feel safer in prisons. I describe some of the really deeply damaged individuals that acted for people who are, you know, with the care system as many people in prison who were abused as children about it. As children often end up and homeless and our prisons are full of people like that. For whom actually, despite the terrible conditions, prison is somehow better than my family outside. And you mentioned, you know, why enjoy life past and go that youd rather be in for is a the fruit equipment of practical advice. Before we get to the usa and russia, you trace jurisprudent trials, right from mayan civilization, and then talk about juries. If anyones up against jury trial in britain, you say, dont worry too much of judges interfere too much because juries, they dont like it. No, thats true. But my experience of egoless cheer is that anyone, but theyre not being told what to do by the judge. And if they feel the judge and given the defendant affect crack of the whip, the jury will side, you know, stuff. You just weaken it really going to decide the verdict that we like and were going to find the defendant not guilty, whatever you might think. And of course, thats right, because thats what the system requires. That requires the jurys riggs a verdict, but ive seen it time and again by judges trying to kind of influence the jury and sight and see things about the defendant. I mean to rock defense counsel, including maybe when in the middle of crossexamination did. I see the jury sit there and say, this isnt fair, and if the jury does think its fair, they will say not guilty, thats the great thing about the english jury system. Well, over in the United States, everyone is talking about president elect joe biden. And perhaps, i mean that lots of disturbing things in your new book, but when it comes to mass incarceration the policy espoused by joe biden, you come up with something called the city of incarceration. Just explain how you see the u. S. Justice system since joe bidens reforms. Well, so that joe biden has been a huge advocate of mass incarceration. I mean that at the, for the truth is that mass incarceration is a great end in the u. S. Psyche. And in the u. S. Criminal Justice System for all sorts of reasons the, that it has prevailed on every single president of the prison population. As i say, i can so about the city of incarceration. 2350000 people in american prisons and it would be the 5th largest city in america. If it were a city i did, and its quite staggering. I mean, when you think about the papers in population, shes over 80000, but thats the largest in western europe. But there are 2350000000, and the truth of it is that they have this huge capitalist corporate structure, a private prison environment, which he says massively, profits of corporations and vested interests, that really theres no incentive to change and it cost them hundreds of billions of dollars a year to keep c with 35000000. 00 in prison, and you dont want to have the highest rates of guarana murder. Well, i know you say all prisons should be closed. What you say if what you are alleging is true, that the reason things dont change is really because of the kind of corporate low being that goes on with judges. Its a mixture of things. The 1st is that there is a political attachment and its an attachment that the general public often shares to really tough sentences. So locking people up for as long as possible. Thats why you end up with hundreds or thousands of years sentences in some states because people voted for it and people like it. But the other thing is the criminal Justice System, including the prison system and many other elements of the system, is a multi 1000000000. 00 industry and their own vested interests. And they, they invest the lobby of politicians. They have many, many candidates who are supported by corporations which are profiting from the criminal justice process. And american politics often, you know, depends heavily on the lobbying of private interests in order to see it in order to push policy along. And that or not, thats a factor has been a city increasing factor, and ive been to american prisons. Ive seen the employers of the private sector. And its a really, really scary thing. Well, of course we have private prisons here spearheaded by labor and tory governments have no time for Boris Johnsons get tough platform in the election in december. Just tell me though, how have your peers treated this new book of yours . Because given that it wants to abolish prisons, given that it talks about this, these political pressures on justice and paints such a poor picture of justice, not only in britain in the United States. And i should say other countries, russia, which will get on to one of your peers said about it. So i think many of my colleagues support the cruel yes. Its that the criminal Justice System is completely broken. But when i was writing the book, i traveled all over the us in particular in the deep south with some of the, you know, the most draconian prison sentences or in some of the worst prison conditions. And the irony of it was, i spoke to judges who were responsible for imposing these very long sentences, or even the Death Penalty and to a man and woman, they all said, we know it doesnt work. We know these very long sentences, a ridiculous, we know this, an 18 year old to prison for the rest of his natural life. For drugs, crime is easy, a moral and counterproductive and ridiculously draining and expensive to the state and destroys whole communities. And my sense of, well, why do you do it then . They said, because if we didnt impose sentences like that, no one would vote for us and we wouldnt have a job. Hes going back to democracy. I mean, joe biden was also clear as well as supporting the crime bill that the war on drugs must be fought central in your book, not only in the United States. You also talk about what happened in russia and russia came into crimea. Tell me about why drugs are so important to the injustice that you document in the book. As i describe in the book, i think i managed to, i mean i had a lot of research on the book. I managed to find examples of the early human 2000000 years ago, taking psychotropic drugs in the fall with psychotropic plots, and sort of co evolving by using psychotropics as off the development of the human species. And the truth is that people have taken drugs of one kind or nama, since time began, and they always will. And so the problem with criminalizing something which is so fundamental to who we are, all we do is that its never going to work. And when you criminalize it, all you do, she creates huge black market. Huge opportunities for profit, for all in all as criminals and sob sob, backbite by government. So all corruption in the state. All this just operating is these Massive International crime. It works better. You have an unregulated losses, organized crime market. What follows is types, what follows the violence, what follows is murder on the streets. But in all of these, i mean, you talk about the London Bridge attacks, you and i so many different elements of jurisprudence. You seem to be alleging by the end of the book that theres a kind of totalitarian conditioning amongst the public about what justice is. And thats why we have the crimes of the Justice System to continue. I think i think its a cultural rather than a totalitarian mindset and we in certainly the English Speaking world in britain and the us in particular. Yet there has been this very strong drawing tools, punishment as being the aim of the system, as opposed to what most people might think the point of the system is which he said reduce the amount of crime. And theres a conflict between those 2 things. If the morally punishing a reader, tony in way are there in the form of physical chastisement, the Death Penalty, all very lonely for tony in prison sentences, the more crime you get, what the public thinks, which is to quote unquote punish criminals and crack down is actually the feeling that results in more crime, in our society, you say prison does not work every single day of every single prison sentence make society poor. Im going to just quickly briefly ask you about the effect of coronavirus on defendants. Maybe your chambers of your colleagues chambers. How worried are you about coronavirus and british presence . Its a really serious problem on 2 fronts. One of coles is that the faction rates in prison, and that been these big outbreaks in certain institutions, but more widely. And as i say, our speech spoken to clients just in the last couple of days who are Via Video Conferencing in prison. And they are telling me of the, of the detroit or a Mental Health crisis thats developing because they are being locked up. They are there, the education process in prison is now being closed. Theyre not out any visitors. And can you imagine that sitting in a cell as they often office flinty 2 or 23 hours a day with nothing to do nowhere to go . No Natural Light and not even allowed to visit us because anybody from the outside world and i spoke to tom friday, he said hed been in this condition for now for since the beginning of march. So its about 8 or 9 months. Even fictive solitary confinement, and so we are, you know, growth of us is having a massive impact on people in prison. And you know, you, the public can say, well too bad, they deserve it. But those people in prison are going to come out and they give you all the streets either in a month or year or in 10 years. And the more you damage them on the inside, the more damage they will do to us when they come out. Crystal, casey, thank you. After the break with new u. S. Sanctions to come into force against cuba, what example is washington still so afraid of and what lessons can new liberal countries like britain, which is transferred billions into private corporations to learn from a country with fewer than 200. 00 dead. And that spawns competition for cooperation in the fight against coronavirus. All the small coming up about to have going on the ground. The world is driven by shaped. Thinks we are probably his last as president who he triumph over the generals and built by his foreign policy, pick up where we were neo cons again, back in control. Welcome back. Britain has chosen the new labor, tory party of privatized city, consultancies to help fight coronavirus now has the worst death toll in europe. This while its close its military ally, the usa with nearly as high def, a capita rate as the u. K. Chooses to wage economic war on the island of cuba. What is washington afraid off that cuba has fewer than 200. 00 dead from coated . , joining me from glasgow is dr. Alan, the f. A. , who appears in the new documentary, cuba and co, 1000 Public Health science and solidarity. Helen, thanks so much for going back on to tell me now documentary get even me made, let alone the fact that its producing vaccines because everyone in britain is focused on the scandal, had to fight as a company as our greatest hope. How when we were doing the interviews, the talk and she had that point, do you have one or not registered for Clinical Trials part by the time we showed the documentary that cubans now have free hands going back scenes on trial and 2 of them already wealthy powerful and im saying is just incredible when you think, you know that this is a small island nation and thats has its subjects to 60 years of science and i mean, facts and terrible time of you, but it was hit all right, own hospital t. , new patients sanctions are the trumpet ministrations that is, its really incredible. We had the convention, he is hiring to see, you know, how oh, yes, little says, lets say all the bunch of really saving lives and livelihoods. And you know what americans watching this will say its a dictatorship, all those brigades, the henry review brigades, we saw pictures of in italy trying to save the lives of italians. Theyre actually human trafficked doctors and nurses. He kind of answer that in the documentary, tell me about how that may not be right now. How do you, were really not he to be had was in one of the 50 free medical specialists who sued not only where the, well, the epicenter of the mobile pandemic back in late march. And, and, and, and, you know, he hung that accusation. He said, all right, i am late. I made my own decision that he explained his own journey in really to you and place it on me hard every night and the cuban medics while i and you know, i asked if they wanted to go on a system where thats literally sitting in the attic will someone pile 500 ready to record and you know, he and i want to study these trials and you know, last, this was my opportunity to impress as they were night lights lives could be saved. President bush at that period. I dont just ignore you and you know he did, this is his vocation and you mean he found that you really felt that he and i hadnt started to help patients. Ok, well if you watch this documentary, maybe youll learn different. But if you look at socalled, Mainstream Media, theyre talking about pfizer, about hastert zeneca, both big pharma multinationals and covert and why do you think we dont hear about the drugs mentioned in the documentary and just fins . All these different treatments, let alone the fact that the revolution itself was, was, was key. One of his key objectives as biotech. The key run by a tech set sa is quite unique. The way it was founded very early on in the dependent of our state on a g. As a field. And it was founded by 981. So that was after. And he said, can i say its a fab in the United States and the situation because its this that has a corner me, this session is going to make, is it 100 percent safe talent and all of the different institutions that western science. And if it how, which is in heaven now, walk around, i dont compete, they dont seek to thank for it all that the best production and the whole industry set up to meet Public Health to all this population is incredible and friendship between the sector, between the Public Health care sector and the education sector. So if that is the model centrally under mind, state, if you think these things stream, this all says only the free market only and because of profit free competition, how we have official outcomes. Now i would say that this is the response that weve seen in countries around the wealth of the Company Behind them. It is kind of a reviving you and the principles on which each party is open minded and has some bias to question the meaning of the fish. When you know you have a Public Health that has not been backed by the speculative brace or something, because even if there is no ice after 5 things, there was too many questions to be all about how local companies to have access and what call outcrop. They ship to be able to access the fact they need to save life, for the cuba, closer to the u. S. , i think vitally important that they want to pull their own a. I mean we saw that with the announcement about the trials of a foster child. The share price and, you know, immediately respond and you know, you have to wonder what i think the president start with say that it is also true that into global south, great deal of cooperation. You can find out. And then you really think a being taken for some purpose or that, you know, has been an event that you talk to credit specifically for credit lines. You dont use it the more of a child. And i would expect that would a great be a great deal more who will provide a ship after this and that with the 2 men, thats all im really showing some promise. Theres even a new british joint venture that part too. I will preventing that critically ill and seriously ill patients. And yeah, that there isnt in the documentary, theres a u. C. L. Link, the University College london are these good colleges, not afraid of us, 3rd party sanctions, if they cooperate on Health Care Development with cuba, the issuance and us sentients is a difficult one. There is and you can legislate patient that makes it illegal for the us mckay to be in full state against and individuals and companies interests and im the same applies your question why that legislation is at risk also. Thats the issue. The collaboration mice with you see out of the states and they may write one of the back end to make coupons and our way copy they all said and used halts to create these machines that was fundraise through recent court battles. Cubans in the u. K. And, but you know, even for that as a Fundraising Campaign to save lives, they have to be very careful about which platforms they use. And how they said, can they share the information because money, right. Or, you know, if you can examine the cultural events issues has a whole event, right . I. E. Event. But i hate how enough probable cause the u. S. Ok. Ok. I want to get on in a moment. Dont know why washington is so seemingly afraid of the cuban. He examined, but i dont know whether you noticed, but independence age is a committee advising which is named after the committee advising bars on to the government. I dont know whether you think they sound like dr. Che guevara, because in the documentary, its clear that there are echoes of what independent sages saying here that it is a localized n. H. S. Health care that is the way forward to combating coronavirus, as opposed to morris johnsons a 12000000000 pound commission. To dido harding hand these big city financial consultancies. What he, what do you make of this difference about why britain has 50000 dead and kimber, only 850, give or has less than 250 . I think the goal should be try to make that the sensual tool in a way that, you know, its all contagion and is the Family Health care. And its right that these are the family has existed in every community. He has the highest ratio have not passed and pretty 6000. Only go to the community, they live among recreation, even the adults got a family over night at 5 in the clinic. So help is available and people out there have a system where they categorize the house, they took all of that community. So they immediately know if a disease, psychiatry comes along that affects people or for spiritual problems. They immediately might agree with the former patients and the most incredible and elements. Theres almost every 19. d has being so you have your own, i mean, increase the process anyway, which youre going to see is that every home in that community. And theyve been assisted by 28000 medical students who is going to carry on their studies universities and join the family. And i went to whole every day. So they were in teams, were they not 100 souls . And they asked at every one in the house how, you know, how they were feeling. And they were basically tracking down when they had a suspected case, instead of leaving them in that community, they were ordered taken to a medical facility or an Isolation Center where they test it. It was a supervised or in indias isolation. Thats great. Now they say, oh, the isolation is taking place at home, but they will also train Contract Tracing a very secret, not just text message is handing out of people bills being anyone who had been a concern that they have been tested really seriously. And this is a highly approach how has this, which is credential over at your and having this at all . How many wells, how ironic that seems to be the system by any and by jon snow in london with color hundreds of years ago. And what do you make then . Finally of the allegations in the documentary that washington has weaponized coronavirus, a complete contravention to what he meant. 2nd general antonio terrorism said, and how many people do you think the United States defacto killed in bolivia by forcing them to remove cubas International Brigade . Well, the residents say it is to the pressure that was pressed on the government site that century it was brazil for libya and critical to spell the cuban doctors who, while acting in most countries. And that happened to full be coronavirus pandemic hit those countries. So that on trees had and you know, weak health, Public Health infrastructure as and without the the systems of the cuban medics. And when youre hit with that pandemic of highly infectious, the very high death rate. I mean that the result was the songstress and what happened was that the cubans had its own met. That in the context of a pandemic, they started to send these 10, we read a country. What was the response of the Trump Administration . And in order to undermine press t. V. At this point to you, ok, this was an actual, you know, once you know, she did of trying to help oblate health. It was, i was trying ministration huge, huge book Human Trafficking saying that these i had no life and also incredible pressure on but recipient countries. So im trying right now in government, home, accepting existence designed lives, their own contributions. Well, believe me, as government is changing by the brazilian ecuadorian ambassadors on the ground after a thank you, thats over the show will be back on wednesday, 27 years on the day so called us president elect. Joe biden stood up in the senate and argued for what he referred to as the biden crime bill. The bill, which critics say led to the United States having the highest incarceration rate in the world until then. You can join the underground following up on you tube, twitter, facebook, instagram, sam, elderly, forward to talking to you on that technology should work for people. I robot must obey the orders given by human beings except when such orders to conflict with the 1st law. Show your identification. We should be very careful about Artificial Intelligence. And the point only a scene is to create a trance and shia areas. Playing with Artificial Intelligence will summon, the demon must protect its own existence and existence. Seemed wrong. Just dont hold. Yes to say power comes to the ticket and in the game equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart. To look for common ground. Join me every day and ill be speaking to give us the world of sport. Im sure ill see you then lead this monday morning on R T International last go continues to send peacekeepers to the new goal. No coward bank region to monitor a cease fire. Agreed with the leaders of armenia and azerbaijan. All correspondence on his way to the city of stop at step one could put the Russian Mission that will be based. Barker extends the deadline for armenian troops and civilians to leave the areas they were handed over under the peace deal. Armenians own homes rather than leave them to the enemy. We had a good life, and now we are tearing down the houses. We built ourselves. I know one thing for sure, i wouldnt even want my baby to find himself in a situation like this. It is very hard because we do not have any other choice despite donald trump