Warmed up here on the great wall of china. C unesco World Heritage site to pools. I can confirm it is indeed very, very beautiful. Well be back of course with all the latest updates today. Tomorrow you werent miss a thing, caesar. The the, [000 00 00;00] the, the welcome to worlds a part melting. Clarity has long been a trained award, the most countries under your sanctions, but it didnt amount to much concrete. The parts from perhaps a somewhat helpless disdain of us had germany. But over the last year and a half as more and more nations were forced to find their own ways of dealing with best and pressure multiple or to has started to take a more tangible form. What is it and where is it . Having will to discuss that im now joined by around carla spent is alice, deputy minister of Foreign Affairs for north america. Its a couple us, its great to meet you. Great to talk to thank you very much for your time. Thank you much for the invitation. Now we are talking here on the sidelines of the, of all day for him, which these here a care is the title fair, multiple arity, how to ensure a security and development for all. And i want to start by asking whether you believe its even possible to ensure security and development for all and do it in a fair manner. Well, i think its something that we have to strive for, for sure. In venezuelas own history. Uh, you know, we are, we are a revolution that, uh, inspired by c mobile dealer in our liberator, who spoke about the librium of the universe as a concept back in the 1800. Some, you saw the, the tensions between the different poles the when rising, and thats how we have to establish some sort of equity in room balance so that we can assure that everyones interest was consider. And i think this is the point were reaching now. And in this point in history where we can no longer just sustain a world view, were only the interest. So one country is accepted. But we have to make sure that we cater to to the interest of, of different peoples. Because that model of the single country is not enough to guarantee for the rest of humanity. Safe planet, safe safety from health or the risk of the seas. So. So the, theres a need for us to build something different. I think it is achievable, and i think its something that we have to promote. So even if i put that one country um beyond the brackets for a for a moment, well start from different bases and doubts a different for source, assembled with different challenges. How would you even assess the fairness of the framework if we are all moving in different faces and sometimes in Different Directions . Well, i think thats where the art of diplomacy comes in and the importance of dialogue and, and how we have to build relations with countries among countries that are relations field besides the on dialogue, we have to try to understand each others. Theres different cultures of diversity, presley, or will travis spoke of 2 or 4 look provided the meaning that uh, not only do we have to have different polls, but the lease that we have to accept the diversity in each fall so they can co exist. So i think its important that we, we do that effort of, of dialoguing and trying to understand each other, see where our interests can meet. Because everybodys obviously has different interests. Everybody has different needs. Well, theres going to be a point where we can make them meet and, and Work Together for the best of all. He meant speaking about dialogue. Last here theyve all day plan. The recession. You asked the president of this country related a portion of whether anything should be done to support this process of shaping multiple leverage. And his answer was essentially no, you know, its a, its a natural development. And besides, the west is already doing everything necessary to bring multiple air. Its about. Do you agree with him that no specific measures a need to to protect her support of this process . Well, i think its important to like, he mentioned that this is something that is taking place now, and perhaps we will find out that along the way, for example, with the emergence of, of bricks. Now as a such a strong platform that we may have to do some things to help it along the way and contribute to the, to the building. I think its important that we, we strengthen those processes because thats where we can really see a new type of arrangement where people can participate in different countries. Have different types of participation. And we can overcome a stomach problems that weve had for example, that in, in countries in, in, in the south, in the global south or Even Development seem another way of, of cooperation for development. That doesnt mean both of you of one country of another, but it actually is the sum of necessities and opportunities. Well, getting into an argument for his blood to report a nice thing. Sometimes its very difficult to allow of these lab be approach. And not only because your opponents are piling economic sanctions on to you, but also because i think theyre now overstepping their own values and their own loss to punish countries like ours. For example, i dont know if youve heard that, but the e u has recently introduced the master that would allow its officials, Customs Officials to st. Uh, russian nationals of their personal belongings like phones, like even toiletries. And that is coming from countries that i still believe to be the champions of personal freedoms and privacy. I wonder if we have come to a point when we have to be concerned about the unraveling of the west because of the western sanctions. Well, i think thats something that were seeing a part of the result of these sanctions. And these policies is that its a promotion of fate in a way o all or is it. And then only happens to russians with a, in this case that you mentioned. But you seem to happen, for example, in, in, in, with less than american migrants in, in, in United States for, uh, you know, the, the, every time you have, you, they place uh, an aggression on the other. Is that only the, the law is not only the section itself, but its also accompanied by a message of distancing themselves from the other and generating fee or hate. We have to distance ourselves from, from this policy, we have to stop these processes throughout the world. Were seeing this re emergence in both in, in europe are also in america, of the fastest tendencies that are used. The use hates in order to promote their policy. So it is part of this process they use hate of to promote their policies, but theyre also sort of a very successful in projecting it out to other countries. They do not see that as hate. In fact they, they seem to be very self righteous. What could possibly uh, bring it to their attention that theyre doing the exact same things that they are accusing that album is off. The problem is that i think it will get to a point that these measures of a take and that they promote, heard them as well, and theyre going to realize that their actions also have consequences. And they are already those in an academic terms. So were seeing, for example, a gas prices being probably the highest that theyve been in the last few months in the United States and hardly is due because the, the way the essential to impact uh, oil markets throughout the world. If of countries like venezuela, we run, for example, they didnt have the sanctions place on them. There could be different oh, rush, rush efforts for that fact. Yes, they can be a very different consequences or the very different im Energy Supply and, and the effects on the us people will be quite different, but also is in the, in other issues like even uh, with migration itself and, and part of countries that are under economic distress because of, of sanctions. Well, one of the results sometime since will be migration and, and, and this, the United States is also feeling a said there is a feeding loop whether they like it or not. But for the time being, they still prefer not to notice it. Yes. And in a way is it is part of the, you know, the, theyre part of the problem the, the, they believe that their actions dont have consequences, but they do now. Uh, the west is using not only direct sanctions against countries like russell men as well, but also secondary sanctions to penalize those who are willing to do business with the quote unquote threatening gates. And thats could be seen as a direct uh tool against uh, multiple r a t a, you know, if we understand multiple our to is a space when nations can relate to each other on their own terms, do things sooner or later. Multiple letters who really require some sort of, um, formal arrangement or protection against western pressure. Well, what we really need already exist, which is the principles in, in, in trying to and then you and charter dental practice. Oh, but, but, but theyre there and, and you know, at one point in time, countries to, to become members of the u. N. They, they signed the, the charter, they agreed to be part of it. And we need to is to rescue those, those ideals. And those principles and, and stress, the necessity of, of respecting them the, the, the idea, the us, for example, coming both these unilateral masters is completely a violation of, of International Law. So we have to do is, uh, we dont have to do the same. We have to defend and show that we respect International Law that then we want a system where multiple are to comply with. But you know, countries can thrive because theres a re um, a minimum of respect for each others interest. And, well, mean, i dont know if you would agree with that, but what i find very interesting about our times is that, you know, theres principles that have been trained into your encounter for the stake. Is it now makes sort of sense to oppose them because its in your own benefit and we see some of the us nominal allies like saudi arabia, like united arab emirates, becoming members of briggs because they, they find it not only uh who doesnt moral terms. Its in that practical developmental interest. So do you think theres something new about the way countries relate to those values and trying them to you and charge them . Well, were definitely a moment where we realize that relations have to be different. Because again, the, the, the system though that was the remaining of that was trying to be, impose on the rest of us doesnt have the solutions to our problems. I think what countries are doing or realizing that they have to abide or follow those, those principles that we will share and, and doesnt necessarily mean that were going to subject ourselves to a country. It means that we have to build spaces where we can dialogue and contribute and cooperate, which is very important. So we, we have to engage in el center relationship rather than incursion. Now speaking about venezuela, your country has been under western sanctions for, for, for very long time as has iran, cuba, some other nations. But it hasnt trouble with these kind of rapid changes within the International Economic and political system that we have observed recently. And i wonder if you see western sanctions against russia as a standout case, or whether its simply the cumulative effect of all those years of sanctions against various countries. That is influencing this for bringing about this rapid change within the international system. Well, it also has to do also with the size of countries on the economys obviously, garages of much larger country and the impact that these measures may have on, on, on the world. Because of how they affect russia is different from how he may impact smaller countries. But the truth is that about 30 percent of the world is right now, and theres some sort of unilateral course of measure from the United States. And the pressing glass mode has been very open and in denouncing this, these actions and how we have to find new uh, new solutions to and the dependency that we have, for example, on the dollar or that we have on, on, on this capability that the United States as time American Financial institutions, all american labs, financial institutions, we have a shuttle to be international. Thats why thats why i presume a little said in, in, in the reason his message to the reason the brakes meeting and south africa of the, the importance that it was to, to find new alternatives to find an architecture for new Financial Model to think about the the organization and see how we can have another organization of the world where were not sort of depending on the United States as well. Mr. Carlos, we have to take a very short break, rest still dependent on the, on our schedule, but we will be back in just a few moments state you the the, [000 00 00;00] the welcome back to me is a part of all the carlos minutes l as deputy minister for for the various for north america, but to call us before the break, we mention sanctions that the United States maintain against your country for many years. And i know for a fact that the news l and then a rainy and experience has been studied in russia extensively to understand what to do and what perhaps not to do when dealing with these draconian measures against my country. I wonder if venezuela has learned anything new or got any new ideas from the russian experience . Well, i think its funny because when we uh, i remember one time speaking uh uh, when the sanction started um under the trump administration, i spoke to a russian diplomatic boy encounter with an in, in washington. And, and the 1st thing he told me was, well, you have to learn to live with sanctions and in the ways to, you know, part of what we have seen from the experiences of for us. And also the ron is to, for many years, is that you know, the point of, of was, of the sanction policy from the United States is to reduce regina change and produce all these alterations of our reality, which are not in tune with the needs and the wants of the, of our peoples. So we have to learn to, to, even though we have these aggressions how to make our, our own solutions on how to move forward. The experience from russia now is, of course, is also interesting for us as all the other ones. And i think what, what we have learned is that nobodys going to give us anything for free. We have to, well, whatever were gonna do for our future and will however, were gonna develop our country. We have to do it by defending it ourselves by organizing our peoples. And so i think that that, that is the best lesson that we can learn overall. Its interesting you say that because uh, you know, a substantial part of those sanctions were brought about after the elections of 2018 and next year youre facing another president ial vote. Do you expect any american interference, or do you think the americans wouldnt be too preoccupied with that own domestic political strife . Well, i think the, if we look at history, you know, this year will be, thats a 100 and over 3 of the monroe doctrine, which is the thing that im going to celebrate. Well heres, heres, heres the thing is i, what weve seen is this constant intervention and the content. And, you know, in different different shapes, the forms from cause to sanctions, to a invasion is everything. But so, so the tendency is that they will always try to find a way to, um, you know, see in gauging in, in our processes in the end and altering in their favor. We, i think we will diminish on people know what their reality are. You know, i, i think we have face all these aggressive so these are problems. And we have had a leadership setting leadership on their pressing model that has led the country out of that. Uh, you know, that aggression, we have been able to grow in the last year that you know, which is something that nobody was been will, was able to predict. Uh, you know, in just a couple years earlier because they thought that everything would collapse. And we have shown that, you know, we are capable of, of achieving a different uh, different outcome. So i think the, minnesota people know that, you know, they, they have to keep advancing in their democratic process in the deepening a revolutionary process. And i think that will be the outcome regardless of whatever intervention it takes place. The venezuela is, is an emergency. And you know, we will have elections and different forces would measure themselves. But i think the sort of people know where the horizon is speaking about different forces, one voice mail from the west at that time, the recognized as the inter and present the cell that is barely seen or mentioned anymore. How do you use this . How do you assess his political fortunes . Well, i think it was a, well, she left the countries not even a political figure of any importance right now in venezuela. And i think many countries now realize that it was uh, you know, ridiculous to have a support of the adventure of trying to recognize the government that didnt exist. So you will have, not only you didnt have a legal basis, but also didnt have any popular support. I mean, nobody though that was for trade us and neither could simply leave the country and to be no effects whatsoever. Right now you can, you can see, can see that it is when it said was over. Come that, that chapter i think so, you know, when were looking forward, were looking ahead again for us. Some of the has shown us a way of thoughts uh, growth towards the improvement of, of services for the event as well. And people, i think thats the path were on and thats important. But as i said, youre looking forward to that. I also want to ask you to look sideways a little bit because im interested in your opinion about the american election. So which are also coming up next year. And i think whats different than weve talked about that a little bit already. Is that the station for the americans themselves is different there and they have never been so polarized as they are right now. And i wonder if, if youre seeing that the outcome of the next year bullets well have any bearing on how the multiple r a t shaping or how the valves on the account and then the shipping out. Well, i think 1st of all, i want to say, you know, we are respectful of the sovereignty of the peoples United States. So whatever the session they make, of course it, we respect them and, and thats what we want them to do in, in our. But lets, as me, the choice is quite unprecedented then its very, i mean, the, perhaps not very inspiring human for the americans themselves, judging from the pulse why . Well, theres, theres many problems in u. S. Society. Now the theyre facing because of the, their model is again, its not able to fulfill the expectations of people using growth in, in, in, in homelessness who have seen growth in poverty. This has a lot of traffic patience on the people who say so then they need to find a way to, to vote for, you know, solving their own problems and not trying to police the world are trying to engage in our elections. I think i hope that whatever comes as a result is another, i renewed opportunity to engage with United States diplomatically and on equal terms. I and you know, maybe maybe uh hi bar to said, but i think it is important that we remember, as weve always been willing to engage with United States diplomatically, as long as theres a relationship with Mutual Respect when you dont have them with the respect and then all these other informations comes about. So my hopes that lease or that whatever outcome of this is something that can lead to a respectful relationship. Now one of those issues polarizing years, domestic politics is immigration and its no secret that then is alan may migration to the United States is linked perhaps directly to the sanctions policy. And i think this is one of the very, very few ways that the americans can directly experience the consequences of the actions. But i wonder if migration is still big enough of which challenge to influence the american approach, either to sanctions or to your own country for their own sake. Well, the problem is, what we seen in drug history in, in us politics, is that sometimes, whenever these election moments come and theres always a for in a adversary of some sort. And you know, either is it could be one day time when they russell or any other country, or it could be in the shape of migrants from anywhere in latin america. This, in this case, because of the narrative, they have a negative narrative against the wind as well. You know, theyre focusing on minnesota migrants, but, you know, been sort of not even the, the main source of migrants in the United States right now. In any case, a lot of that migration historic, the reason has to have to do with the intervention of the United States. Now its sanctions, but before you know, the, the, the cools, the, the sabotage to democratic government. So the just sitting aligned to their purposes that lets for people to seek uh, solutions and to seek them a north because at the end of the day you effect the economies in a way that people, you know, and they want to look uh, fuller, other economic possibilities, so its is, is a moment where theres a, there must be a lot of reflection on the side of the you the be both of us to see where the real problems are, where the real, where they should focus their energies. Its not necessarily foreign threats its, its the way its functioning inside that they need to deal with. I dont know, she would agree with that, but i think it is this perception of invincibility that for decades about the american Political Class to rooted with impunity and the sort of believe that that consequence that actions dont have consequences. And if you look close, the whole concept of american exceptionalism is ultimately rooted in this idea that they are somehow above and beyond, which would be ition. My question to you is what youre seeing me persuading the american people. But the american, the lee is that theyre humans like anyone else, and therefore they shouldnt be constrain south, constrained by some notion of homeland responsibility or at least responsibility before that own people. I think their model, the current model has shown, is not sustainable. I think anomaly is not going to be sustainable in the long run. The again, the challenges are facing within the country. The goals of poverty, the now the new, the growth of drug use. So which has now become one of the main, or the primary class of, of, of the youth in the United States. Show that theres something essentially wrong with the system that there and that exceptionalism is not going to be the answer. I think. And also, you know, i, you mentioned the leads were the, the fact that the people are realizing this, i think its important because, you know, there is the giving, say, this even a, a massive Anti Imperialist Movement that we dont see in the media. But, but that, that it does live in the United States and doesnt ones country to, and its government to deal with these actions. And i think thats growing every day. And, you know, sometime is going to reach those decision makers. Theres gotta be new generations of, of, uh, lawmakers and to come in to us politics that, that focus on real peoples problems that has to happen. You come from a country with the stronger revolutionary tradition, but i think that comes a point for any country when revolution has to give way to diligence work. I mean revolutionary smoking said no, its enough. You actually need to provide for your people and its very hard and often times unimed on under appreciated the work of governance. I sometimes wonder if the americans of stock and this revolutionary phase of thinking of themselves as sort of the, some of the shining seat here on the hill without even caring off for, you know, working the fields or, you know, the roads inside the inside. Thats you. Well, i think there has to be a change of that exception this mentality. But, but i think again the, the problems are they, theyre going to encounter learning counseling right now in the streets or it was gonna be thing that change will come. Because the, the american system as it exists today does not allow for, in my view, its nice for a free and comprehensive expression of political will because a choice between the 5 and then trump is with all due respect to the americans as a very poor and limited choice. Well, theres other movements that i think are important within uh, you know, local, uh, theres gotta be a gradual empowerment of people and it start is going to start is already started and, and, you know, local that was received different a different class. So of politicians and in City Councils in other places that are contesting some of these a visual policies that come from exceptionalism. Its a process and maybe maybe one are going to see it next year or, or, you know, maybe in 1020 years. You know, sometimes these changes take a long time, but you can see that theres something rolling and, and that is that it has to come out because thats the statement, the way theyre doing it is not sustainable. Well, uh, on this note mr. Call us, we have to leave it there, but thank you very much for being with us to my pleasure. Thank you very much. And thank you for watching hope to hear again and was a part the, an asteroid kids, a team of 1st responders and gone to the sides. Humanitarian agencies raise be along over the conditions that civilians are facing in that area. They tell us that they cannot even reassure their children to tell them that its going to be ok because maybe its not going to be okay. And of itself hostilities. Israel scrambles to identify those killed during the initial attack by hamas. As we