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California is binding the sale of new gasoline power vehicles starting in 2035 state now has some of the wells most stringent regulations for transitioning to electric cars trucks and a weekly look at the worlds talk business stories from Global Markets to economies and Small Businesses to understand how it affects our daily lives, and im a dominant with counting the cost on algebra. Hi, anthony ok to day on the street. What happens when climate activists take direct action . Lets take a look at a few examples from this year. Were gonna start in february activists in canada, cause millions of dollars in damage this year, and what it operations on a key work site for multi 1000000000. 00 natural gas pipeline project. In march tire extinguishes launches in the united kingdom, this Leaderless Group aims to make owning su vs in cities impossible. And they have deflated thousands of vehicle tires around the world. One more example for you, august climate activists in the south of france, phil golf course holes with the manx to protest, the water bad exemption for golf greens amid a severe drought saying the economic madness is taking precedence over ecological reason. So in this episode of the stream could embracing climate sabotaged help save our planning. I know youve got thoughts, i get your Comment Section is live looking forward to seeing you in it exclaiming, artifice but far out comparing the pride out stripes, the crowds portez on much to calling attention to comments. To address the Climate Crisis. The government have made promise to talk to keep in arching. Muslim, adaptive is, we need to take a step further to push. Because the goldman does not give it to our campus. The problem is that taken that course of action with like we havent the exact opposite effect, it would be a gift to the right wing, opponents of climate action. Who would use it . Leverage it for all its worth to accelerate their creeping fascism make. The issue politically toxic for moderate voters, arrests, a generation of young climate activists, and so division in the Climate Movement itself. Joining us to talk about their various degrees of activism when it comes to Climate Crisis. We have andreas and ms. Rena. Charlotte get to have a few of you here in the stream. Andrew, as we please introduce yourself to our global audience, tell them who you are. In the cat connection of todays episode, what do they need to know about very briefly . Well, im in the rails, mom. I teach human ecology to Learn University here in sweden. And i guess im on this show because i wrote a book on how to blow up a pipeline, learning to fight and the world on fire, which advocates for sabotage on property destruction as methods that the Climate Movement should experiment with. Now that the situation is sol diner and i think what were seeing right now are the 1st signs of the Climate Movement in the global north doing this. And i think more is coming. Measuring. Welcome to the strain. Welcome back. I should say, its always good to have you on board. We introduce yourself to the audience. Remind them who you are, what you did. Thank you. My name is esther. No, simon, im from sudan. On the chair of the un secretary generals Youth Advisory Group on Climate Change, and alkaline an activist for 10 years now. Its a happy and welcome charlotte. Please say hello to stream view is around the world. Tell them what you day. I am charlotte crab. Im a Climate Justice activist and im an organizer on the free. Jess spreads team. Im wondering, charlotte, at what point do you abandon diplomacy, climate negotiation . Talking to your nemesis, perhaps talking to policy makers who are not thinking about the future. And then say, i need to take direct action. When does that happen . I mean, i dont think of it as a binary. I dont think you need to abandon, you know, as the word that you chose, those other tactics and do Something Like property destruction. I think that we need a diversity of tactics. I think we need policy change. I think we need legal challenges. I think we need direct action. You know, i think i would be the most successful way is using a variety of tactics yet. Use in tactics, needs to do a cost benefit analysis. You always need to see or calculate how much benefit them going to get from using this taxes and how much the cost it goes to me and in the tactics cost more than the benefit to bring stand. It doesnt call that they can just mean that its a failed trial address. Yeah, no i, i totally agree with both of these points. And i think the, the purpose of sabotage would be to a mass greater Striking Force for the Climate Movement. And so far, we havent really managed to inflict serious material costs on for phone capital, and that is what urgently needs to happen because the situation right now is that the more of the world burns, the more fossil fuels are poured on the fire. And it just cannot go on like this, and our governments have so far, completely fade and raining in this virtue in the morning force that is banged on burning down the planet as fast as possible. And if the governments fail so conspicuously than someone else has to step in and thats what people around the world are beginning to do, take action of their own. But i agree thats not a question of abandoning other tactics. Its a question of trying to put greater pressure on government to do what is necessary because on their own relation of their own accord, theyre clearly incapable of doing that. They have to be put if you have a government, if you have the government in the 1st place, it. Sure. I think i think can and then its just funny for me to talk about governments these days. So im just sure you said something which jumped at me, which was in fact, if i can fit damage on the fossil fuel industries. So if this in your mind a battle, im just looking at your book that came out in 2021. How to blow up a pipeline. So its almost like youre going to the front lines. Youre not waiting any longer. The diplomacy and negotiations . No, because the, the un climate negotiations that have been going on for 3 decades have presided over a constant increase in c o. 2 emissions, i mean c o 2 emissions globally have just continued to balloon while these negotiations have been happening, year after year. So clearly thats a massive epic failure and we cant wait for that to just continue forever. Its just dragging out and not doing anything to limits, let alone abolish business as usual. So clearly we have to do something else. I mean, i dont see how you can avoid the conclusion that we have to try something more than what weve done so far. It hasnt been enough to wait for negotiators to petition to lobby to march, to demonstrate, gently ask for politicians to listen to the science. We need to also do something more and thats, thats the face of the Climate Movement and the global north is and yeah, im, im not from saddam, im from one of the countries that is perpetrating climate injustice on people in countries like saddam or other parts of the global south, the, im active in europe, which is the original cradle of the fossil economy where this whole climate crime began. And here we do have governments and what they do in, for instance, norway, the neighboring country here, is that theyre just a bidding encouraging. Ever expanding extraction or for some shoes. And there is reason money. But matter of anything, andreas, the funny thing is most of the developed countries or the european countries, projects of oil and gas, are actually not happening in, in these countries where you have a legal system that might actually protect the activists who do this sabotaging or blowing up the pipelines, its happening in countries where activists can just be killed for a striking i in front of her, of a forest for example. So, so thats why when you talk about different tools ray, talk about doing more m, i. E. Really think of different ways of more different, more as a, as you may say. And yes, diplomacy is being fading us as a generation and feeling that fitting the planet in actually a reaching the point that we want to reach. But if you use that to a wrong, it doesnt mean that the to have a problem. And if you plant a tree and dont irrigated, it doesnt mean that the, the tree itself or the saw itself is not proper. It means that youre not taking care of it and it does to remind all of you in the negotiations or the diplomacy, or wherever is systems that people created. And people should change it as long as its not working. Instead of just trying something else. And i think as someone whos a mr. Hill, this negotiation, israel, israel, its, its, yes, i excuse me for, for jumping in here. I want to bring charlotte into the conversation. Charlotte, because when we talk about direct action, you know what that is like, and you have done it and theyre handling repercussions. So this is the of the side of that. Its not just we are going to go out and were going to slash tires, deflate tires, a fil. Gov. Gov courses with cement, to stop the privilege from using water. When the rest of us con, youve actually done that direct action. And then what happened to you . Yeah, i think i have done different direct actions as part of the Dakota Access pipeline protest. I had locked myself to horizontal drill. That was boring under the des moines river, which is a source of Drinking Water for 40000000. 00 people. And i was trying to do the felony. I served a month in jail. I had to pay you guys 7000. 00 in restitution and 65. 00 per day in jail when i was in there. And you know, im here to speak on behalf of my friend just who is locked up for 8 years. And i really appreciate history, your comment about the very real risks people face with this, like its exciting to her port those, you know, tactics and a i think acting outside of what has been working as important. But i think im here today to speak about the increased criminalization of water protectors, the increased criminalization of protesters and power c, especially in the u. S. You know, emerging of the oil and gas industry and corporate interests, as well as the government thats really pretty terrifying. To be honest, this is alicia. I always a little tape of jessica, written a check and you can tell him more about her story, but i want audience to understand that she was doing direct action on a pipeline. And she ended up coming years right now. So i think 8 years in prison, filica mexico terrorism in the United States have a look at part of hanoi. In her statement, jessica wrote that after exhausting all avenues, the process for petitions for Environmental Impact statements and Public Comment periods to hunger strikes, marches, boy cods, and civil disobedience. And she took her actions as a last resort. Bidens department of justice has declared jessica and domestic terrorist sentenced her to 8 years in prison and millions of dollars and finds paid to the pipeline company. Her case is important, and its because its not unique laws specifically criminalizing environmental protests have now been passed to put on the table in most u. S. The moment anyone seriously challenges the corporations, freedom to push us closer to the class, a government uses the language of terrorism and they make you disappear. So jessica anne and her friend charlotte, they sabotaged the cut Dakota Access pipeline. Fire bombs. They used the soldiering unit and for that she serving 8 years in prison as a domestic terrorist. Is that not a sobering thought in terms of how do we get peoples attention . How do we save our planet . If the other side of that theres gel time. Yeah. So just to clarify, i was not the other person. Jessica acted with another woman and that was not me. The actions i spoke about were separate. Oh, but it is real and Jessica Wesley bought the domestic terrorist and that increased her sentence 5 whole and shes just served, finished a year in prison and she has an 8 year sentence. She has to pay 3200000. 00 in restitution to Energy Transfer partners. The company that owns the dakota. I shall, i shall eat. You just said that like, its like its no big deal over 3000000. 00. How doesnt normal everyday individual come up with 3000000. 00 . Thats a great question. I mean i definitely dont have an answer to that and i think it really speaks to. Busy you know, how high the, you know, the fossil fuel industry is increasing the risk to try to intimidate activists from acting. And, you know, injustice case. This isnt random. We know exactly why this happens, that this would agree, motivated in 201784 Congress Members. They, for democrats, 80 republicans wrote a letter to then attorney general Jeff Sessions asking specifically in the wake of standing protests that people who tamper or impede with cross if your infrastructure be prosecuted as domestic terrorist. They specifically mention punctured and val, because this was also trying to target the valve turners. And then just because prosecution or label as it did, i, victor is an exact answer to this letter. So we know exactly why this happened. And those 84. 00 Congress Members who wrote this letter, they received 336000000. 00 from the fossil fuel industry. So we know that the fossil fuel industry is just trying to protect their assets and the governments doing committing to do. And i think that, yeah, the important thing to point out here is that its fundamentally bizarre. The jessica retina check who never harmed an individual, never injured any one, never killed anyone, is labeled a terrorist when in fact, the extraction and combustion of fossil fuels are killing people on a daily basis, indiscriminately killing civilians, particularly and the global south. This we know for a fact if theres anything here that can be classified as terrorism, it should be large scale for from fuel instruction and combustion. Obviously the law, those are totally skewed and twisted. So the, the, the, the presumed terrorist hair is the one who tries to destroy the machinery that destroys lives and ecosystems around the planet. So now these, the andrea said as got that, so thats your moral stance on you know, why this direct action is necessary. But if you have a young woman who is now serving time as a domestic terrorist does not, is not a Chilling Effect and makes you think twice about how do we go about getting peoples attention in a productive way without landing ourselves in prison. Yes. And the 1st thing we, we should think about is how do we accomplish the most without ending up in jay . How do we avoid, how do you repression . How do you . Yeah, well, you should ask the 20 people who destroyed bath coastal gas land construction side. And British Columbia that you started off with because as far as i know, they all evaded arrest, which i think is a great thing. And you can go and, and destroy a site where a pipeline is being constructed and just get away with it. Likewise, i dont know anyone in the tire extinguishers whos been arrested and i think this is a step away from the civil disobedience protocol of extinction. Rebellion and other groups have made it a virtue to get a sense. Yeah, yeah, the heart of our action is to almost throw ourselves into the arms of the police and end up in jail. I shot ive had enough. What was that . Was that what you were doing because you got topping and you did some jail time. Did you, can you a court i mean yes and you know, yeah, nobody wants to hear you and we dont change a big piece of equipment so you would definitely get caught. That that was not an engine is. Yeah. I mean, i think this speaks to the bigger issue of an escalation of tactics. You know, in that case we and jessica had, you know, jessica ran with the le coats a youth during the permitting process of the army corps of engineers. And you know, ive been part of so many projects where like we submit comments as part of the i statement we, you know, whole i a statement Environmental Impact statements. Thats part of the primitive process im, you know, and so you can do it a civil disobedience outside of a place just did hunger strikes. And so there is like this escalation where youre doing things. And i think the role of direct action in this case can be to highlight an injustice thats taking place in a way that traditional media, such as like an op ed or writing it just cant, you know. And so i think highlighting how high the stakes are, is something that direct action, you know, can really bring to a situation. We bringing a new slicing, tackle the social new voice that an old very well known face. Leslie james, pick them and hes a former spokesperson for the Earth Liberation front. Back in a day, they did a lot of sabotage. And this is leslie explaining what the purpose is. What happens when youll successfully completing a sabotaged, sabotaged mission avenue. It creates this scenario where there is no consequence for bad behavior in a society where there is no consequence for bad behavior. A corporation can go and cut down a forest and pollute and what have you. And at the worst, they get to find that they have no problem paying and they just go on with business as usual. But after the Earth Liberation front up on the scene, um, you know, they have to stop and think about is what im doing. Gonna upset these environmental is so much that im going to be the next target of a large scale arson attack. Well, my Company Build burned down, and if they are the target of that kind of thing, well, thats going to cost them some, several things. Its cost them some money and some time and some anguish and, and hopefully cause them to, you know, rethink what the, what the, what it is that theyre doing. Are we seeing a different kind of climate saburd tell. Wow. And dias, friend 2 or 3 decades ago. Yeah, yeah, i think the Earth Liberation front that was at its peak in the 1990, did not have a specific focus on climate because this was environmentalism before climate breakdown. Have set in. Now we have a more strategic or i think precision in the sense that were going after primarily fossil fuel infrastructure and luxury emissions along the lines of driving s u, v in rich neighborhoods. And i think this is more appropriate for the current moment because the Climate Crisis really is. I mean obviously its just one part of much broader ecological crosses, but it is the most urgent problem that were facing. And then i expect that well or, and i hope that we can continue to have that kind of precision rather than a kind of, you know, general assault on industrial civilization or Something Like, im sure im going to bring in a new voice, sal lufkin to respond this is to mom and she is in india. She spoke just a few hours ago about a different approach to changing peoples ability to act and mediately during the Climate Crisis has yes, the majority of our population is just struggling to get, but theyre not bad off. The guys sees that are affecting them so far. A lot of guys are organizations, its motor board gate, taking the awareness to communities and working on mine so shifted adopt ation for them. Instead of nearly targeting the authorities under corporate, which is a much larger boxes and it is more dangerous. Charlotte thought, i mean, i appreciate what come on i said, but in terms of i like what leslie brought in in terms of accountability for these corporations. And like with the case of the Dakota Access pipeline, a federal judge came to rule that it operating a legally. So the permitting, the permits that the Credit Access pipeline had to go through are illegal and its operating now it weeks multiple times. Within its 1st 6 months of operation. Its over 2000000 gallons of as drilling made into christine wetlands. And that i think is the catch 22 of living in extractive and colonial system, where the only way to stop in the regally built pipeline in a legal way is to let it be built. And then after the fact realize that it wasnt legal to begin it, but at that point its already built. And so i think, you know, finding ways for accountability for these corporations is important and also not just the corporation for also the court. And with just that, we realized in the appeal process with her was we were challenging the domestic terrorism label. And as part of the appeal process and the appeal was denied. The judge is basically in their, in their decision said that we believe tested domestic terrorist was a harmless error. And so what, what the lesson that you, we learn as an international audience, listening to jesse story is that, isnt it just that the repercussions us . Oh, huge yes i sims are huge, but its also, i think for us this is much bigger than just, you know, and thats why were worried about emerging of the fossil fuel industry and the government. This is about a threat. I definitely. Yeah, this is the kind of problem that every movement in history that has challenged, vested interests has had to face, namely a state apparatus that is totally beholden to. These vested interests. And with that comes the problem of repression that you end up in jail. But i dont know of any movement in history that has struggled for emancipation and has totally evaded the problem of imprisonment or considerably worse. And clearly this is the case in congress on the global south to a much greater degree than in the north because levels of repression are much higher in countries such as india, south africa, not to mention that come to some latin america were environmental activists are killed on virtue a daily basis and i think the coming from india made an important point here that the at nist frame from saddam made as well. And that is that every choice of tactics has to be adapted to the local concrete circumstances. And im certainly not arguing that everyone everywhere should do only sabotage, and that is the magical bullet that will bring us to a bit of address. Its been interesting listening to your perspective, charlotte as well, initially. Thank you so much for being part of this conversation. So many interesting thoughts here on you cheap as well. And lean says the last thing i have is people dont even believe in Climate Change and dont care whats happening on the other side of the well. 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