Welcome to inside story. Im ray suarez. The cost of attending college has gone up in the past 40 years faster than the cost of just about anything else you buy. Look at family incomes in the 1970 with a little planning, americans could pay without economic stress. Now a family earning the Median Income would find it harder without serious saving beforehand or taking out loans. When you Factor Private colleges and universities, the tuition and housing costs are astronomical at a time when smaller number of students are finishing degrees in four years. Take those numbers, add in low starting salaries, a sizable serge of College Degree holders working in jobs that dont require degrees and you have the makings of the current anxiety that its just not worth it. Al jazeeras afnal jazeeras Allen Schauffler has spent time with those students. Getting a lot of emails like this one. Unfortunately, we will not be moving forward with your candidacy at this time. Avery is an apprentice plum inner a handson four yea plumber in a hands on four year program. Jill was in a program, school wasnt cheap. Youre in debt 70,000. Yes i am. How does that feel . Terrifying. Avery tried apprentice shipping. It just didnt take. He could earn more than 60,000 a year more as he gains skill and experience. Im making money already and working on it. I mean theyre work pg o workinn getting a career too, they also have to pay off those debts they get. Americas total student debt now tops 1 trillion. Sort of job market. Stagnant wages. 70 of students graduate with debt, the level of that debt is 29,000 on average. Study after study shows their earning potential is up higher than for those without a degree. Dr. Bill zumetta researches and teaches the economics of education. Heres another big number. 300,000. What does that mean . The 300,000 is a conservative estimate of the gains from getting a College Degree compared to a high school diploma. Minus all the costs of going to college. However much it costs to going to college ultimately it should pay off. Jill is glad she got an education but those grad school loans come due in january. Greater long term earning potential than undergraduate degrees but he emphasizes that costs are not for everyone. This is averys postsecondary education. All the pipehauling, ditch digging adding up to a head start in life. Youre always going to need plumbers, it goes the same for other professors. Everyone needs a plumber . Exactly. Since talking with Al Jazeera Jill has found employment in the art management field. Degrees costs and benefits this time on the program. Leslie fenwick is the dean of the Harvard University school of education, Andrew Hanson is a Research Analyst at Georgetown University center on education and the workforce. Andrew, in the course of my lifetime, college has gone from an elite to a mass experience. Thats great. All during that time people have been saying the best thing you can do for yourself is get more school. Just in the recent years ive heard an undercurrent of doubt. Whats driving it . This is predictable, every time theres a recession everybody suffers regardless how much education they have. What people inferred from that is that a College Degree was no longer worth it. Based on the data we look at and all the research were familiar with, that is just not case. A College Degree is not only worth it. It pays more than it ever has, point 1. And the economy is creating far more jobs, especially jobs that pay a living wage for College Graduates than they have before. But Matt Mcdonald, isnt the cost of college at least undermining andrews argument somewhat . Yes, i actually think that it is definitely still worth it but what youre actually seeing is directionally, it becomes a little bit less worth it each year. As wages go up a little bit less, and the cost goes up a little bit more, is that people feel the pain, as compared to what it was like for their parents or their older siblings or Something Like that. So its not really a function of it not being worth it. It just seems less of a good deal over time. Leslie fenwick, should we also qualify that question and say well, depends on who youre talking about, what they want to do, where they want to live, those kinds of things . Absolutely. I think blacks and hispanics are more likely to report an optimistic view about the impact of college on quality of life, and the ability to get a job and keep a job, than their white counterparts and peers about 64 of whom report this kind of optimism around having a job, getting a job, having a quality of life tied to a job and College Attendance. It depends who youre talking to what segments of the American Population youre talking to. Given way things have changed in the last 30 years i think im on pretty solid ground in suggesting that a black or latino kid is much more possible of having educated parents than a white kid. Thats true. And to have parents who are lowly paid, and have fewer opportunities because they arent well educated. I think those realities are certainly fueling this optimism this perception that a College Degree matters, that its going to influence your ability to get and keep a job and that also influences factors even related to longevity. Is part of this anxiety driven by the fact that college has, unfortunately, become a default position for older american teenagers, that we dont have a wide array of choices for them when they leave high school, so they end up in college whether they really ought to be there or not. Matt . You know i think thats fair and i bet leslie has comments to weigh in on where we are in k12. Because it does feel like we have moved, and this is you know from an aspirational standpoint its good to target college for every kid. But if college isnt going to be the best outcome for every kit, if its a Certificate Program or if its a Skills Program there is a question of whether at a k12 level or a subbachelors level if were fitting that appetite that need that demand in the skills perspective in the right way. Yet at the same time, andrew, people are saying hey, dont close down my opportunities. If you start telling me in 11th or 12th grade, maybe i shouldnt go to college, theres a backlash. Because theres a very nasty memory of kids being told they werent College Material in other generations, and that not necessarily being the case. I think thats exactly right. And i think that this fear that students would be tracked into what used to be caught advocatessa Vocational Education now into career and technical education, aside from the four year college has led to an addiction to the bachelors degree quite frankly in the u. S. Education system. What we do know is there are about 30 million jobs that pay a living wage and dont require a bachelors degree. But we also know that the new minimum for access to middle class jobs is some postsecondary education, a degree are certificate or education or an apprenticeship which we saw are other pathways we should promote. Lets hold 30th in a moment. During this enormous runup of cost it took two to tan go. Two and three times the rate of inflation every year families paid it. Should families take a larger role in choosing a path after high school and would families making cost a more important factor force the increases to be smaller . Were in the prairie state yet we have such little of it left. Now oldschool methods meet cuttingedge science. Weve returned this iconic mammal to illinois. With a much bigger longterm benefit. Grasslands have a Critical Role in climate change. Its exciting. Techknows team of experts show you how the miracles of science. This is what innovation looks like. Can affect and surprise us. I feel like were making an impact. Awesome techknow where Technology Meets humanity. Youre watching inside story. Im ray suarez. Keep an eye on newspapers and websites. Theyre full of story of undergraduates who identified a dream school, got in and broated breathtaking amount of money to get in. Six figure debt loads really cover a minority of cases but when you consider how many schools breezed past the 60,000 a year barrier and are now headed towards 70, should more students and their families simply use their market power to say no, were not going to do it . Degrees, costs and benefits this time on the program. Will you end up concluding college was worth it if you dont overpay . If you drop the dream school and pick a school you can really afford . Leslie fenwick of howard university, Matt Mcdonald of Hamilton Place strategies and George Hamilton of washington university, we have management at the table. Is cost really playing enough of a role when inspirational families aspirationalfamilies are playinr a role in making a choice . Absolutely they are. We have to know our economy is less than 30 of the country having bachelors degrees. There is some sense in the american psyche that in order for me to get a job i may not need that College Degree if only 25 to 30 of the population actually earns the degree. And i think also part of the psyche is that we have a president of the United States and a first lady who came to office owing Student Loan Debt and mate it apparent that the made it apparent that the length of years individuals are engaged in the payment of debt is serious and it affects people well into their 40s and 50s and even professional individuals. I think families are considering all of that in their choice and theyre trying to make the most economical decision. Weve seen more students who are seeking a community College Degree, and then transitioning to the bachelors degree, weve seen more students being siphoned off to public colleges and universities rather than private schools which have dibble the rate of tuition and tenant fees. That is clear in the american psyche and affecting decision making. Howard university an Historic Black College that has played a role in american history. As educating those first generation students. Georgetown, i think, if we were to look at the schedule of costs and fees, is one of those places, well, not at the top but near it, within shouting distance of it. Who are those kids and are a lot of them going in debt to be there . Absolutely. And but what they think is that its a good investment. And the data prove them right. The students who, the graduates who struggle the most with paying down their debt are not students, or the graduates, who have high debt burdens that attend the harvards and the georgetowns but those students who attend Community Colleges and drop out or dont get a degree or certificate of value. Those are the students who are struggling most with their debt. Not the students who graduate from elite public colleges. Theres something paradoxical about that, if you take on more debt youre likely to pay it and if you look for a cheaper finish. What are we supposed to do with those numbers . The high levels of debt are correlated with High Education, thats the reason people want to go. Because in this economy High Education results in high wages and wages is what enable you to pay that back. For students and families many of them are thinking differently about how they approach this problem. I think the key for any student or any family is to plan and have a plan and have an understanding of what youre doing and why. And you know i think a lot of the problem stories you hear or read about in the news are people who took a lot of debt out at very expensive schools, and had a major that wasnt going to command a wage premium in the market and got caught out between those two. And i think that so i think that the key for any student is to plan. Because for most people its still going to be worth it. But for people where they get into trouble or they get into problem, its going to be a small segment. But to avoid that you need to have an understanding of how you approach. Have a plan. Thats where well pick this up in a moment. The numbers of are out of whack. Doom students are bow money to begin college and not finish. Making sure college isnt worth it. What should School Age Children be doing now, aiming high and s. Welcome back to inside story. Im ray suarez. Is your son a soso student . Well, why push him to attend a rigorous namebrand school thats also very expensive . If your child says to you, honestly and forthrightly, i dont want to go to college. Yet. Are you bound to hear her, hear him out . As we ask whether college is worth it, are we making conclusions based on a flawed premise that almost everybody would be better off going. Leslie fenwick of howard university, Matt Mcdonald of Hamilton Strategies, matt these are decisions made at the end of childhood, that have long consequences, are we taking them seriously enough . I think theyre difficult decisions and the challenges this a lot of kids face is theyre 18 when theyre making these decision he and whether that decision is signing on a dotted line for alot of debt or whether that decision is not going at all, those decision ves lon shave lots of consequences. They dont necessarily have the guidance from their parents who have been through it before and know how the system works. You know its a good idea to apply to multiple schools so you can play off your packages against one another. Lot of parents who havent done that before dont know that. So i think that you know its almost like we need to have a way to help these students who are applying through the process understand the process better at the front end and be really educated on what the process is that theyre entering into. Dean fenwick, is the pressure on a 12th grader to go right to college the following september to great and so common and so widespread that maybe a kid who might be better off waiting a year or two doesnt . Because they feel, thats not what everybodys doing . Theres so much conversation about College Attendance thats permeated the k12 environment. So i think most kids are pushed to consider and actually make application to college. The larger issue i find is that, at 17 and 18, whether youre First Generation College attendee or from a family that has a legacy or generations of individuals attending college, you have fantastical ideas about what majors have earning potential in the market. And sometimes, one of the best things i think that parents can do, parents and guardians, is inform their childs consideration of certain fields. So i always point to of course education, nursing, pharmacy, engineering and accounting as bachelors degrees that at 21 have high earning potentials for someone whos 21. And i think thats something that really needs to be unpacked more by families. And College Professionals can help families in thinking about potential. In fact, you know, 80 of teachers are the first in their family to go to college. And so, if youre First Generation College attendee and you have a passion for schools and children, maybe education is the right major for you. And maybe you should be educated about other majors that at the bachelors degree level will result in some real employability for you. Andrew hansen, you mentioned at the outsit set this kind of anxiety is predictable after a recession. Are we on our way of getting supply and demand for educated workers back in line so it will lower that anxiety a little bit . Sadly were not. The economy destroyed 5. 6 Million High School jobs in the recession. Back. At the same time, weve added about seven million jobs for College Graduates. The problem is, were about 11 million College Graduates short of that. And so what youve seen there is that employers are willing to pay higher wages, much higher wages for College Graduates than high school graduates. And as we go and we continue not to need this shortfall we expect to see that continue. We only have about a minute left matt. Youve written about and studied about the trend lines in costs and earnings. Do present trends always predict the future . Are there other factors that may temper some of those price hikes a little bit in years to come . I actually think thats a big factor in what were seeing. I was actually out in san francisco, and Silicon Valley this week and the innovation thats going on in the space in termination of technology and learning you can do, theres huge disruption he doing there. Mit, my alma mater, they have just recently explored how they can provide certificates through online learning. So theres a lot of innovation going on in the space and i think kind of the old model of library bricks and mortar, thats going to give way to a combination of some of these new things. And part of that will help with gettings the time that people are attending down from what can be five years down to a four year program and help with some of the costs on that side too. Leslie fenwick dean of the howard University School of education. Matt mcdonald, partner at Hamilton Strategies and Andrew Hamilton is a Research Analyst aft Georgetown Universitys center of employment in the workforce. Thank you for your thoughts. Ill be bark with a notion of values. Stay with us its inside story and send us your thoughts on twitter, aj insidestory aj. Ive seen people sittin there for 10, 11 months and not even know why they was in jail. If you dont have any money, youre finished. You get mental scars from this. How many kids have they thrown away . Faultlines. What do we want . Al jazeera americas hardhitting. Today the will be arrested. Groundbreaking. Theyre firing canisters of gas at us. Emmy awardwinning, investigative series. The only way to get better is to challenge yourself, and thats what were doing at xfinity. We are challenging ourselves to improve every aspect of your experience. And this includes our commitment to being on time. Every time. Thats why if were ever late for an appointment, well credit your account 20. Its our promise to you. Were doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. Because we should fit into your life. Not the other way around. Ing as a father, as a taxpayer as a citizen i worry when i see the frantic scramble for seats in selected universities, even for kids who are not sure why they want to go. I worry when i see poorer students with tougher high school records, arent even applying, justifying the sacrifices their families made for them to go. Instead minority students are clustering in lower cost, lower demand schools that are also less equipped to raise an alarm when they fall behind. Many told researchers and reporters when they left a School Without a diploma they werent even sure they knew their school knew they were gone. But here i am, assessing the value of a diploma in strictly economic terms. It is a widely appreciated person. If you go to college, learn how to do something, learn how to earn, sure thats great. But if you dont also take the chance to pick the brains of the smartest people who have ever lived, dont learn how to live, rather than just how to make a living. Youve really missed a great opportunity. Unfortunately, that advice sounds countercultural, when school costs so much money and so many families are asking for an economic justification. Understanding yourself and the world you live in better should also carry value, even if that value is harder to measure why dollars and cents. Thank you for joining us for inside story. See you next time. Im ray suarez. Every saturday night. I lived that character. Go one on one with americas movers and shakers. We will be able to see change. Gripping. Inspiring. Entertaining. No topic off limits. cause im like, dad, there are hookers in this house. Exclusive conversations you wont find anywhere else. These are very vivid, human stories. If you have an agenda with people, you sometimes dont see the truth. Talk to al jazeera. Saturday, 6 00 eastern. Only on al jazeera america. On america tonight, the crack down on immigration. I was born here blessed to be a citizen. For me to look at them and see