It was almost impossible to eradicate the campaign founded by the radio presenter Paul Gambaccini and others who've been falsely accused Augie's that while the government will prevent the media from naming people under police investigation allegations of sexual offenses are extremely damaging the family of a British Bock Parker who's been missing in Guatemala for 5 days say they are desperately worried for her safety Catherine shore from Whitney in Oxfordshire was last seen at a hotel near Lake Atitlan one of the country's main tourist attractions her mother posted this message on social media I don't have one. You know to touch. And we are friends we meet you know it was so clear he turns it into us we don't just. Read and. Turkey is expelling 3 German journalists today a move which has increased tension between the 2 countries is Seoul to be the 1st time foreign correspondents have had their accreditation formally rejected Here's our turkey correspondent Mark no one the annual press card when you will in Turkey was in most cases a routine formality but this year for the 1st time the authorities have formally rejected the a creditor nation of 3 reporters for the German broadcasters Zedd D.F. And N.P.R. And the newspaper dead target Spiegel several other foreign journalists are still waiting for response to their applications those rejected are flying out today after a 10 day deadline to leave the country the decision is being seen as further pressure by the Turkish government on media freedom and the straining relations between Ankara and by Lynn Finally there is a yellow weather warning in place for snow this morning across Northern Ireland then it will stay cold and windy with some wintry heavy showers B.B.C. News. Just one of those all time classic so. Called hanging where you left me tomorrow. In between 9830 as I pull off the bleak out. Everywhere around good luck. Last days He wants to see the sunshine after the rain don't we all love but I don't think there's much thought of it having judged from the forecast we heard of the 8 o'clock but talking a bike the weather we know of to this survey you know one of my surveys from the British Science Association was a huge number of people it interviewed and among the respondents The 2nd thing that apparently people talk most to biked A is the weather the weather they reckon we think about it or talk about the weather for it or every week but because here there's so much going on one minute somebody the next minute it's rainy and it's our number one common past time in terms of you know small child the small talk and the chatter chatter about the weather and it's true I seem to have talked by the weather an awful every report and some numbers test for time it's not shocking I'm after all luck and weather blabber see we did all we did all Philip consciously and I'm surprised that so many it bores every week but when you think about it that's a whole working day that we spend other thinking a bite we're talking about the weather I love it but this wasn't just the things that we talk about it was really the activities that we indulge in the number one thing on that list in the survey which I loved was drinking tea 39 percent. And that was just above Hugh which was the 3rd most common activity I love that So here here's the thing get a takeaway take a stand any key and talk about the weather if all the B.S. Is covered. By the way the the 4th most popular thing was apologizing unnecessarily. SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY ARE. In the supermarket especially. Along the rocks. You know surprise. Down time and didn't love on the rock another little interesting snippet that I read which made me laugh actually it made me smile and then Lafite lied which is the whole idea of telling little white lie. Sorting out fact from fiction and to parent late it is actually harder to tale a fable when you're over 60 than when you're younger so if you want to be sneaky if you say who are saying Sorry I can't make that today. I've got the cold or oh. No dear dentist I've just got to work that day or yes I'm really busy when you're sneaking night to meet a friend for coffee or as I play golf or whatever party it's harder when you're over 60 because you're memorise not to skate and you can't remember the law and. Deal more like that spot Franz are for Until don't spread and sing dinky people like Stevie Wonder an Elton John it's just better crying to our hikes don't know if you are a fan of T.V.'s midsummer murders I have seen a few episodes in the afternoons my mom was a great fad although I think she stuffed was what trying once partially I laughed because we all grew up with by shock we love enjoyed novels but apparently it's a bite to start its 20th series tonight I was thinking Hari many murders have there been over 20 series of off midsummer there must've been hundreds hundreds it's a piece isn't it when you you're looking down your estate agents listings New think oh I know where I'll go and I'll go and live in midsummer. The murder capital of England. But it's a trial to poke seem to suppose. That. She may be with. Young girls they do get in we. Know. When she gets we. Know she the waiting. And just hating. 2 that soon now close. Up look. Their way. Without them track. Of the 10 that. Gets knocked. Down Santo Maraton NO NO NO. She's. The Greek. But. Spoke so good. tests. A little tenderness works every single time. We have some time. Last song on this show for this Sunday morning. Thanks to my guests Michael Condon And the 39 Steps is on the Lyric Theatre I'm. Belfast until the 31st of the month. Some sequence coming up next I see I'm tying C.M.C. Back Saturday morning so until then take care stay warm stay dry stay out of the snow Alysia next week. Have a great week thank you very much Hello good morning you're all very welcome to Sunday sequence with me or 3 card from the busy program between now and a quarter past 10 I do hope you can stay with us coming up they broke the mold 25 years after the 1st woman priest we look at the impact on the Anglican Church and also on the program we have the technology from Gene editing to artificial intelligence is a time to stop fearing the future as humans we've changed the genes of species for millennia we've just done it by things like selective breeding this way all we're doing is actually changing genes in such a way that we know what the outcome will be a future in which machines do all the jobs a future in which humans do whatever we want to do we could have a 2nd for my songs those interviews coming up between half past 9 and 10 this morning and to many a true thing said in jest your words were dirty it was lovely to the little Catholics of more Frankel's Protestants hate the dairy girls on the degrees of religious difference we'll be talking about that after 9 we'll have the best of the Sunday papers with the newly Meredith and Nick Harper's as always we want to hear your views on all our discussions this morning you can tweet me at all 3 Carville all one word you can join the conversation on Twitter with the hash tags on the sequence where you can text us on H 1771 and the text will be charged at the standard rate by 25 years ago this week the 1st women were ordained as priests in the Church of England it took centuries to effect the change and yet now for many it's all rather on. Remarkable that almost a 3rd of the clergy are female However Opposition does remain within the church with some congregations exercising the right not to have a female priest or bishop or we're joined this morning by the Bishop of Rippon and the Leeds dices Dr Helen Nan Hartley in 2013 she became the 1st woman ordained as a priest in the Church of England to become a bishop anywhere in the world talked a hearty good morning good morning and you're very very welcome your thoughts as the 25th anniversary approaches this coming week I mean it doesn't seem that long ago yet so much has changed since yes absolutely I mean I've been reflecting myself that when they say that the dentist change happened I was an undergraduate students in my early twenty's that somehow now it's in any way seems so normal to have a female as as a priest or date now of course a bishop but of course in my life quite a lot has happened in the last 25 years so even though you know it doesn't seem like a lot of time actually the church gradually has changed I think its culture is it's changing too for the better by the fact that women and men could Komisar for the most part equally and there were 32 women ordained that day do you regard those women as real trailblazers Yes absolutely and in fact I was at Lambeth Palace a couple of weeks ago for the service can enter a 23 of the 1st the 1st woman and you have this big court has be with us and I was present such I haven't met her before but just to meet her and and hear her story and the story from the other women that I've been speaking to recently who were part of the 1st cold war and it's easy to take for granted I think that being being the 1st is actually quite a challenging thing to do and these women wear it anyway and still are regarded as absolute pioneers and you're ordained I think 12 years after they. Where you were ordained a priest in 2006 when you were talking to an Berners Lee were the stories very different or where they're very many similarities between you and I think there were similarities and differences I mean I think so different from my perspective you know the fact that there were women as priests when I was considering whether or not to be or DE meant that I had role models to look at and I think it's the case now that I find myself in the role as bishop that actually when you see somebody is not a role you can imagine yourself in it now the 1st where the course didn't have I mean that there were women of in other provinces of the Anglican Communion but in terms of home grown you know these women didn't have anybody really to to see in their role so they have to they have to make it for their own and that's that's quite a big difference I think between between then starting and say the starting 12 years later exactly where there are many though who in 2006 were still making their opposition to women priests clear to you personally you know not to me personally I think a but and in fact I think overwhelmingly and in my experience and I know a number of people who cannot accept my ministry but you know they are still supportive and I think that the so I haven't myself faced I mean I suppose the thing is you know a lot of the opposition comes passively although devil and it's actually quite difficult to articulate that I certainly haven't had anybody aggressively against me but I think the sort of low level and passive stuff you are aware of but of course the Church of England does expect fully those who cannot agree with the ordination of women and so you know that the church institutionally is in a position where it has to allow the different camps to flourish and that's quite a challenging place to be I think for the church yes I mean I'd like your views or not the fact that some congregations in 2019. Can still our Dodge of having women priests Well that's right and I mean that that is that is enshrined in the legislation of the church that's one of the reasons why the the legislation to allow women to become bishops managed to go through on the condition that it was right for for for people to to object and I think in conscience you know in my role because I have some congregations in my part of the diocese that cannot accept my ministry and it doesn't mean that they're not supportive or respectful towards me but it is the space that the church is in so we have to work with that do you try and persuade them otherwise. No that would be and that would be against I think the spirit of the mutual flourishing that was put in place but I think what's really important is that different groups can continue to have dialogue and conversation about it and be honest and I'm not sure that we're entirely in that space where we can still talk about it but I think is important. But is there is there not something still very wrong with an institution that OK On the one hand you're a bishop and there are other women bishops and priests but on the on the other hand it allows some congregations to still opt out as I mean that's that's fool equality isn't there that's right and I think that's that's one of the frustrating thing is basically looking from the outside into the church that the church being that the angle even if you look at it broadly is the Church of huge diversity and I think. You know the sort of a logical perspective on that to say well actually you just have to go the journey with this guy but some point it will make sense but right now in terms of my ministry you know I've got things that are front and center at what I do day to day and I just simply get on with that you know that is the space that the church is that worldwide so I think the best thing I can do is to continue to model positively what it is to be a female as a priest and that of course the bishop do the best I can do and marking 25 years since the 1st ordination to the Church of England at that time on that day I think when this $32.00 women were being ordained the officiating Bishop said he believed it would take 10 years for the 1st woman to be appointed as a bishop but it took nearly 20 years I mean did you think it would because long. I'm not to be honest with you I'm not surprised that it took more than 10 years given the pace of change in the church generally and some might say that actually it's happened quite quickly and with a general game of church history but I suppose it is a bit frustrating that it would take so long but I think part of the complexity around not all that some of the discussions were so entrenched there logically that you know the journey of compromise and coming to a position where everybody could support it was actually quite complex and quite long held so. There we go the church does not change quickly about her. Do you think I mean there's still it's bishop and that's as far as women can go at this stage do you think you will see women and being elevated to Archbishop within your lifetime I absolutely I mean there are a number of women who have been or are archbishop and of a province that in the you know there's no reason not or why the Church of England could not appoint and it has to be the right person in the role of a quite clear about that there's no reason I think why a woman could not be the Archbishop of York or in due course of course Archbishop of Canterbury I hope Peter in my lifetime yes exactly of course that the Church of Ireland on this island they've had female since the 1990 S. What's it like being a bishop was this is it what you expected it to be oh goodness. It's a fantastic thing opportunity and privilege and I love it and I think typically because I became a bishop in that about as far away as you could. From a bad that was utterly unexpected and so I you know I rejoice in the role it's a huge privilege and I say I do love it and I'm really grateful for all the women that are gone before me that have enabled those roles to be to be open and to people like me I want them within a primary school in New Zealand a little boy could have a hand that had to they can be shipped to. Love life but that was just it was just amazing you know the sort of Che that young people what they what they can imagine . You know thanks be to God about I'd like you to listen just to a very short clip of the Catholic Bishop of Derry Dr Dong McIlwain who I interviewed on this program a few weeks ago and I was asking him whether or not becoming a bishop is viewed by priests as a career progression and here's what he had to say I think now your days leadership in churches has been the enormous burden to be. But on people my understanding is that there may very well have been people who were asked to take on different seasons said thank you but those thank you I think leadership in church is seen as really a cross to bear not as a reward for a job well done nor do I think it's seen as a difficult task right but if you're in any way ambitious and you're starting your you you're in the seminary studying is it something though that you would set your sights on as a priest or God no no no absolutely not and I had a passion for it for working with people at leadership sublists makes it more difficult to be to be working closely with people and it certainly was something I've never had any desire for any more than being principal of a school and yet there's a job to be done in offering leadership in difficult times and I think the Lord was very clear about taking up the cross if you want to Berkeley in the gospel if you want to be some sort of coherent witness and in a time of enormous change so know what it's certainly is not an easy task to take on and be an idiot to want that sort of prefer haven't what do you make of bitter Bartley Well Larry that quite. I thought. I would agree with but I think. That he thought career progression because. It's a calling I'm not a cop out that that career number I'm not passing part of he but they check but I think that. It is not a career progression to be a bishop It is a quick office and role but some people are quite well thank you very much has been great talking to you this morning thank you for your time and the Bishop of Rippon in the Leeds diocese Dr Helen Mann Hartley 81771 is our number for your views this morning 842. Stories inside documentary house comes to mind. Is crossing the border that is the Belfast to Dublin and back again. I know where the order or where it is or when you're also you know it's a trip lots of people including me make all the time bombs on the train every day why is that a monkey but night brags that is coming down the tracks Yes really it just really. That's in the next stories inside this afternoon 1230 on the AC already alongst are also available on B.B.C. Sound. Now we know that Lent is underway and for some it's the annual commitment to abstain to sacrifice but is there a difference in how the various branches of Christianity view this period of 40 days with the 3 main churches represented here this morning Catholic priest Father Martin McGill Presbyterian minister the Reverend Dr Paul Beatty and Church of Ireland minister the reference Kevin Graeme You're all very welcome on Mars I suppose just to explain Lent it's reflecting the story of Jesus going into the desert isn't it is it is so in terms of the temptations on for example today. In certainly Catholic election reason or indeed the revised lecture as well will have from Matthew's Gospel chapter 6 Matthew's a kind of the temptations of Jesus those 40 days abstaining from food Kevan Is it a religious observance only in the Christian religion. Only the Christian religion as far as I know yes project within the church of ardent or prayer book which is what we would turn to define what we need to be doing at any particular season of the year it's quite clear that the days of Lent are day set aside for self-discipline and denial and were encouraged at the beginning of Lent to spend a time of self-examination repentance prayer fasting and reflecting those 40 days which will be read by this morning in our own church as well but the political dispose of land within the Christian tradition and start as we experience in the Church of Ireland is a prayer the fasting now is giving or as you might say in modern language the giving in that is recognized or depends on God the giving up of things and the giving away with things but I'd say of the Christian tradition I'm not certain of who widely is ached it's their daughter or mosques Yes poll How do Presbyterians approach lent do they give up anything well as simple as by and large Actually the calmness tradition Tana's not to observe lump at all. Going back to the time of the Calvinist Reformation the keeping of law was a sanctuary just continued Calvin I'm strongly and so forth actually felt it was an unhelpful practice and as a sanctuary continued up to the present day certainly in a kind of an official circles anyway and eventually members of a Presbyterian as a moral very Calvinist church as well actually engaging learned in their own way but the church has 10 not 3 OK So the what we understand by lent that it's self-sacrifice that abstaining there's none of that within the Presbyterian church you don't give up anything well like I say individuals may choose to do so but certainly as a church teaching columns only and others saying well no it's not necessary. They felt it was wrong for the church to actually try to impose this kind of. Or even some people or for example back in the time of the Reformation I'm not sure what people would do you know but for example the prohibition upon meat that they felt again was helpful and not sways ringlet for example props provocatively or as when least followers celebrate along by having sausages. And $1520.00 take so by and large a lamp is not a season which is a freshly observed one columnist circles so what do you do during those 40 days is there an adding of a spiritual discipline or something like that well I think for that for the churches some of them to sort of maintain a slightly more of a moderating possession and so far there will be special services which will protect really focus only the worshipers minds on the work of Christ up across as we approach a star. But oh not that there would be anything and protect I've always done OK OK And and Kevin so why did Anglicans hold onto to mentor to Ash Wednesday as always it. Be in the the middle way between the reformers of the European reformation and then Mr Mason but hold on to that Catholic us but with the church that we still believe in the continuity from the day of Pentecost straight to the day so that those things which we were saying to be good within the church at the Reformation we retained it was only those things we say that needed changed or were not so good that were removed from the practice of the church so we have retained those things of that within I are going is a little believe still have Federation the Virgin Mary for example perhaps not so much in the Church of Ireland but that practice of the land which recognised which in the early days of the church for years to prepare those rebuffed as a minister and for that was it for Might with the church for whatever reasons to be rejoined after a period of reflection and so that practice them seen as good for all Christians became part and parcel a practice of the Anglican church remained so that the reformation within the church of our. It's still practiced today and it's not just about giving something up anymore I think more modern times are thinking of what it looks extra can we do a little as you may just brutal discipline perhaps and so that was given. Focus on prayer reading and study and God's Word those are additional things that perhaps we mightn't do so and as such a dedicated way the rest of the year so it's not just about giving up but also doing all the things as well and Marson is that true for Catholics people of the Catholic faith as well to rather than simply giving something up for the 40 days adding something as well to your life yes that would be very much the case I think that in many ways it's up to people's own choice and I listen to Paul they're talking about a sense of imposition of me but there's also a sense of invitation and it's really in many ways up to people themselves to decide on the things I find particularly interesting I had a visit to our primary school lots and cabins on the falls are old and I was asking some of the primary 7 some of the things they're doing for Lent So yes there was the giving up and protect Hillary impress when they hear children talk about giving up some of their games on their devices and some of them are doing that but all there's a right to lead doing things like the likes of doing extra reading are going out for exercise and making a greater effort with their family absolute there's not very positive side as well yeah Paul what do you Presbyterians then think of Catholics and those in the Church of Ireland and faith who do commit to abstention or soccer fights for that for lent you should just make sure I mean obviously I'm just trying to explain the historical of your contacts with us we're not passing judgment negatively on anybody there obviously people are free to do as they see fit and as I said end of a job Presbyterians will do things which are very similar I suspect. That there was another denominations. I guess a certain new element of denigration there whatsoever I think just for those with on the cost reduction so this is not necessary as such life of discipline should be are a continuous one. But again you know very often commandable what people are doing and I like what Martin says there and so far the element of invitation. About it and it is great in many ways to exercise additional spiritual discipline from from time to time and. A lot as to become ended Kevin what do you say to that that it's not necessary the 40 days of self discipline or abstention. We use the words in their prayer book we are then invited to observe the holy land by self-examination except until the sense is that invitation that Father Martin is ready made and I'm sure there's not an obligation but I think all of us on our journeys of faith for not taking some time aside wherever whatever part of the year that is and for however long it is there take that opportunity to reflect on how our spiritual life is developing and how it's growing our immaturity and our fates so it just so happens that this period of 40 days before Easter seems to provide a perfect opportunity that's but to have an empty for our faith and and whether one chooses to have that empty or not is not like our car we legally obliged you know the opportunity is there but whether it's at Lent or if it's similar time and indeed in Advent as a time when we do the same in our church where we. Reflect more on where right before we celebrate Christmas again and so it's you know to not do it I think is not to not to do Lent is not wrong but to not take some point in the year we reflect on our faith on our maturity and how we grew once as last year we develop bad habits is out there we do something that the neighbors has to grow and I say see land for the Martin you were saying earlier in the week that you are hearing that there's a beautiful Ash Wednesday service at St John's Cathedral. This week you would love to see an ecumenical service next year and why you I mean is that is that likely I absolutely think so it's just a matter of time for here we're out of sync with the rest of the world I did a bit of research including some of the columns tradition probably one of the best articles I've read a nice Wednesday comes from Calvin College I have done little to the last Wednesday service from the Presbyterian Church in the USA It is so incredibly beautiful rich it's a real teaching and that energy itself Kevin mentioned earlier this idea of self-examination that's something that I think you know really would be a key part of this is me I think it's just a matter of time do you agree Paul. It's possible to be honest is a bit like how I was saying on her but the church moves quite slowly I think President church and I was not the Presbyterian Church of the USA It's a very very different based I would say it's never going to help them could be a very long way off is there a turgid good reason why it couldn't happen. When again within our tradition locally we don't observe. Individual ministers may choose to do so individual Presbyterians may choose to do so so I think if there was opportunities were there some individuals I think I've no doubt would wish to join no other denominational level it's not part of our tradition and I'm not speaking for the church I wouldn't pretend so today but I certainly wouldn't anticipate that denominational involvement there but you know Martin. I suppose one of the things is that I did a bit of research last night on the Internet there are kind churches right throughout the world right across the denominations Lutheran Evangelical Lutheran Baptist then yard I suppose for us here in the likes of Northern Ireland I think to some extent it's really inviting us to take a look at some of our past and particularly I suppose and I want to quote a friend of mine the Reverend Steve start when he talks about it it's really important for the churches to say that the religious war is over and I think we need to get to the point of saying this religious war is over Kevin do you think the Church of Ireland would be willing to take part in an ecumenical Ash Wednesday service. I can't speak for everyone but certainly for myself I would have. I would have loved to have an ecumenical Ash Wednesday service in fact previously have been involved in one on a school on the arts peninsula where the local priest and myself were in attendance . And we ourselves on our friends they we had a service and credit Christe which presents a different difficulty in an ecumenical service course that the services and require your Christe but we had the optional receiving of ashes in our church so there's not there's not a huge notion to move to heaven an ecumenical service for the city where we all might receive ashes and good knowledge this time together the saving inside Belfast Agreement the chair of cults faith seeking understanding we will have the local Catholic priest speaking of the Presbyterian Church as other will do for each Sunday evening in Lent as we share our pulpits and exchange our pulpits and so there is already some kind of ecumenical move during the Lenten season but in Ash Ash Wednesday to gather for the city in the cathedral might be a great sign of where the churches have moved on OK well thank you all very much indeed for taking part this morning the Reverend Kevin Graham the Reverend Dr Paul Bailey and father MARTIN Gayle thank you how should we view the icons of the film and music where as when we hear of allegations of vile behavior this week this week a T.V. Documentary leaving Neverland heard from 2 men who claim they were sexually abused by the pop star Michael Jackson some radio stations have since come under pressure not to play his music but is there an ethical divergence here can we condemn in the case of those believed guilty their crimes but still enjoy the music or is that in some ways a glib overlooking all the evil is a religion commentator a Presbyterian and also a music lover Allan you're very welcome and thank you for coming in to us this morning good morning how do you how would you feel about radio stations playing Jackson's music to switch on the radio and there he is singing threat or whatever where I think until quite recently really until the documentary has been talked about in the last couple of weeks Michael Jackson's nearly been in a different category to some other artists who have who sends up in the car discovered because actually Michael Jackson's music was relatively free. Leap played even though people had lots of worries about what had been going on in his life and where as Gary Glitter had completely disappeared from discourse really and was a A bombs kind of character and all but me I'm. Kind of Jackson has been kind of dialed back his head as his volume control has been kind of silenced a muted at this point and I think this leads us to maybe we need to think about the complexity and also possibly our own internal hypocrisy runs some of these things we have created. Kind of hierarchies of sins increasingly hierarchies of sinners and while it's very understandable that murder and child abuse and rape and so want to be at the top end of things that people do not want to associate with where the red line is drawn and as you come going through less perhaps accountability things in terms of tax fraud. Slandering people and so on the gossiping and right going to wherever perfection is at the other end of that scale we put that in very different places for different for different categories of people for politicians to get away with lots of things and I certainly don't say that their policies you know if you say their policies are completely corrupt if the person is corrupt we kind of we can distance ourselves from the if we're if we're talking something sequence we need to think about some of our biblical so called heroes and the fact that actually they have feet of clay proves the point that humanity is sinful that God has created us and works through us all sinners not just. Go on because there are I mean you're right in the sense of the double standards and so on because. We believe some victims we don't believe or at least we question some other victims so why is that and we don't play you don't you never obviously hear Rolf Harris being played anywhere now or Jimmy Savile's clips and yet Elvis Presley was in a relationship with Priscilla when she was 14 Bill Wyman was in a relationship with Mandy Smith when she was 13 and we seem to choose to say the the art is of sufficient quality or sufficient. Emotional attachment to so that when I used the phrase was in a relationship with I mean these are children yes you know yes and I think we've got to. Our modern society has our ethics of changed we have wised up in some areas under other areas we still haven't yet got to that point but what was kind of allowed to happen or overlooked is no longer is not called out quite rightly but it's a complete I think apocrypha in terms of the fact that we we want to do this I think that makes us have that difficult conversation or heads that says Do we need to divorce and the creativity and all the people who go into some not music I'm very fond of Michael Jackson's our song probably but 21 or 22 and a kid might and it's the 1st time I remember being kind of challenge but environment unchallenged by what we're doing to the world of the video that ran for what felt like 10 or 12 minutes but for me sex. Is really weird I mean if you hear the song and I can kind of go back to that point and the are very strong should thoughts that does is the part of the good of that song is that devalued. Retrospectively and because of the awful things that docs and that or even Rolf Harris I mean how many people are listening to 2 little boys and terms of the do you think I would leave you dying there's room on my horse for to you I mean there's a kind of a motional hook to that he didn't write the song he just was one of the people who sang it it doesn't say that that song is wrong and it says that the person singing it was wrong and we need to be able to kind of say that that's that's the case because we look at somebody like King David and we realize that he could have leared from his palace to a woman who was being compelled or to come to his house. You know he slept with her he but that's called kidnapping rape in modern terms and then sent her husband off to get killed but yet we still see that his psalms were good well look there's plenty there to think about Alan thank you very much indeed for coming in to to share your thoughts with us this morning Alan May Ben you're with something sequence on B.B.C. Radio Star the time. It is 9 o'clock so. Far to 41 media. B.B.C. Radio was. Releasing news at 9 o'clock am Karen English some of you know that audience large as businesses have written to I am pays our genome not to let the U.K. Leave the E.U. Without a duty they said no to.