Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240703

Jeremy hunt or the current Prime Minister. I imagine rishi sunak will not react directly to his predecessor. But he will probably think being behind in the Opinion Polls to the Labour Opposition that this would be a brave or bold time to tell people they would have to work longer and potentially have Public Services to some extent reduced in terms of the cash available. Its quite a difficult political sell but what liz truss said she took personal responsibility for trying to rush through her agenda. She had a rather strange metaphor, not one to think about of your lunch, she did not just try to fatten a pig on market day, she tried to rear end and slaughter it all on the same day so she did rush her agenda but she said change had been urgent and what happened in the end wasnt so much the policies she was pursuing, they were not wrong, she argued the political and Economic Establishment including part of the Conservative Party turned against her and there was not enough consensus on controlling public spending and although she does not want to go back into Downing Street she seems to say she will spend her time arguing for greater free market policies. We arguing for greater freemarket olicies. ~. ,. ~ arguing for greater freemarket olicies. ~. ,. ,. , arguing for greater freemarket olicies. ,. ,. , policies. We will go back to what is bein policies. We will go back to what is being discussed. Policies. We will go back to what is being discussed. The policies. We will go back to what is being discussed. The government. Being discussed. The government sends being discussed. The government spends huge being discussed. The government spends huge amounts being discussed. The government spends huge amounts on being discussed. The government spends huge amounts on Housingj Being discussed. The government spends huge amounts on housing three housing spends huge amounts on housing three housing benefit, three m hcl g subsidising housing. Because housing in this subsidising housing. Because housing in this country so expensive. If we had proper in this country so expensive. If we had proper reform to the Planning System had proper reform to the Planning System that allowed many more houses to be built, system that allowed many more houses to be built, the price of housing goes to be built, the price of housing goes down and that saves money in the wp goes down and that saves money in the dwp budget, the Mhc Lg Budget But That The Dwp budget, the Mhc Lg Budget but that takes time. And with very shortterm but that takes time. And with very short Term Economic analysis and also, short Term Economic analysis and also, and short Term Economic analysis and also, and i short Term Economic analysis and also, and i made this point about dynamic also, and i made this point about dynamic analysis, the treasury obr is not dynamic analysis, the treasury obr is not good dynamic analysis, the treasury obr is not good at saying if we did this planning is not good at saying if we did this planning reform this is how much Money Planning reform this is how much money we planning reform this is how much money we would free up in the economy, money we would free up in the economy, it becomes very hard to advocate economy, it becomes very hard to advocate those policies in the short term advocate those policies in the short term 50 advocate those policies in the short term. So this is why im talking about term. So this is why im talking about laying out a Ten Year Programme to say here are the changes programme to say here are the changes we are going to make to housing changes we are going to make to housing and planning, so we can build housing and planning, so we can build 1 housing and planning, so we can build 1 million homes next to stations build 1 million homes next to stations in the London Green Belt which stations in the London Green Belt which is stations in the London Green Belt which is perfectly possible and therefore this will save us this much therefore this will save us this much money in dwp and thus much in mhc lg~ much money in dwp and thus much in mhc lg. What the public wants better services, mhc lg. What the public wants better services, cheaper housing and cheaper services, cheaper housing and cheaper childcare. And Lower Energy Bills cheaper childcare. And Lower Energy Bills i cheaper childcare. And Lower Energy Bills idont cheaper childcare. And Lower Energy Bills. I dont think most people bills. Idont think most people really bills. I dont think most people really care exactly how its delivered or by whom, what they want is the delivered or by whom, what they want is the outcome and the system we have is the outcome and the system we have at is the outcome and the system we have at the is the outcome and the system we have at the minute and i also made this point have at the minute and i also made this point in have at the minute and i also made this point in the speech, a lot of power this point in the speech, a lot of power now this point in the speech, a lot of power now lies in the hands of officials power now lies in the hands of officials rather than government ministers, its become a very vulcanised, itsjust difficult ministers, its become a very vulcanised, its just difficult to et vulcanised, its just difficult to get those kind of things done that i believe get those kind of things done that i believe is get those kind of things done that i believe is what the public want when they get believe is what the public want when they get those types of responses and the they get those types of responses and the Lord Ashcroft survey. But you are and the Lord Ashcroft survey. But you are right, it was very difficult given you are right, it was very difficult given the you are right, it was very difficult given the election timetable to get those given the election timetable to get those things done ahead of 2024 which those things done ahead of 2024 which is those things done ahead of 2024 which is what i had wanted to do before which is what i had wanted to do before the which is what i had wanted to do before the election is try and spell out that before the election is try and spell out that trajectory, Difficult Though out that trajectory, Difficult Though it was. Out that trajectory, Difficult Thou h it was. ,. ,. , though it was. Given that shortness of time and though it was. Given that shortness of time and we though it was. Given that shortness of time and we have though it was. Given that shortness of time and we have 7. 7 though it was. Given that shortness of time and we have 7. 7 million of time and we have 7. 7 Million People of time and we have 7. 7 Million People on of time and we have 7. 7 Million People on an of time and we have 7. 7 Million People on an nhs of time and we have 7. 7 Million People on an nhs waiting of time and we have 7. 7 Million People on an nhs waiting list, i of time and we have 7. 7 Million People on an nhs waiting list, how are you people on an nhs waiting list, how are you going people on an nhs waiting list, how are you going to people on an nhs waiting list, how are you going to persuade people on an nhs waiting list, how are you going to persuade people i are you going to persuade people that your are you going to persuade people that your reforms are you going to persuade people that your reforms were are you going to persuade people that your reforms were going are you going to persuade people that your reforms were going to i are you going to persuade people that your reforms were going to make enough that your reforms were going to make enough of that your reforms were going to make enough of a that your reforms were going to make enough of a difference that your reforms were going to make enough of a difference to that your reforms were going to make enough of a difference to get that your reforms were going to make enough of a difference to get them i enough of a difference to get them to vote enough of a difference to get them to vote for enough of a difference to get them to vote for you enough of a difference to get them to vote for you tty enough of a difference to get them to vote for you by the enough of a difference to get them to vote for you by the next to vote for you by the next election . To vote for you by the next election . I to vote for you by the next election . To vote for you by the next election . ~. , election . I think there are very serious issues election . I think there are very serious issues with election . I think there are very serious issues with the election . I think there are very serious issues with the nhs. Election . I think there are very| serious issues with the nhs and other serious issues with the nhs and other Public Services. And i said this during other Public Services. And i said this during the Leadership Election Campaign this during the Leadership Election Campaign last year, frankly too much power Campaign Last year, frankly too much power as Campaign Last year, frankly too much power as being centralised and we do not allow power as being centralised and we do not allow local gp surgeries, local pharmacies to make enough decisions so i pharmacies to make enough decisions so i wanted pharmacies to make enough decisions so i wanted to push more power down to the so i wanted to push more power down to the ground. I dont think the prohtem to the ground. I dont think the prohtem in to the ground. I dont think the problem in the nhs is lack of money, it is the problem in the nhs is lack of money, it is the way problem in the nhs is lack of money, it is the way the system works but i am not it is the way the system works but i am not pretending you can build room in a day am not pretending you can build room in a day and am not pretending you can build room in a day and we would have sorted out the in a day and we would have sorted out the nhs in two years. Obviously that was out the nhs in two years. Obviously that was not possible but what i had hoped that was not possible but what i had hoped was that was not possible but what i had hoped was to be able to set out a longterm hoped was to be able to set out a long term trajectory. I think by the way it long term trajectory. I think by the way it is long term trajectory. I think by the way it is inevitable whatever kind of health way it is inevitable whatever kind of Health System you have, it is going of Health System you have, it is going to of Health System you have, it is going to cost a significant amount of money going to cost a significant amount of money i going to cost a significant amount of money. I think the real area where of money. I think the real area where savings can be made is actually where savings can be made is actually in where savings can be made is actually in the work and pensions hudget actually in the work and pensions budget and things like housing, by Making Budget and things like housing, by making housing more affordable across making housing more affordable across britain, youre going to save money across britain, youre going to save money in across britain, youre going to save money in the budget as well. I� m money in the budget as well. Im sure theres money in the budget as well. Im sure theres plenty of questions that people sure theres plenty of questions that people want sure theres plenty of questions that people want to sure theres plenty of questions that people want to dig sure theres plenty of questions that people want to dig into. I sure theres plenty of questions that people want to dig into. Moving on to the that people want to dig into. Moving on to the question that people want to dig into. Moving on to the question of that people want to dig into. Moving on to the question of institutions on to the question of institutions and youve on to the question of institutions and youve made on to the question of institutions and youve made the on to the question of institutions and youve made the point on to the question of institutions and youve made the point again| and youve made the point again about and youve made the point again about how and youve made the point again about how you and youve made the point again about how you feel and youve made the point again about how you feel theres and youve made the point again about how you feel theres too l and youve made the point again about how you feel theres too much bureaucracy about how you feel theres too much bureaucracy which about how you feel theres too much bureaucracy which is about how you feel theres too much bureaucracy which is constraining bureaucracy which is constraining what bureaucracy which is constraining what elected bureaucracy which is constraining what elected politicians bureaucracy which is constraining what elected politicians want bureaucracy which is constraining what elected politicians want to i bureaucracy which is constraining. What elected politicians want to do. Ithink what elected politicians want to do. I think if what elected politicians want to do. I think if we what elected politicians want to do. I think if we are what elected politicians want to do. I think if we are honest, what elected politicians want to do. I think if we are honest, the i think if we are honest, the institutions i think if we are honest, the institutions that i think if we are honest, the institutions that we i think if we are honest, the institutions that we have. I think if we are honest, the institutions that we have ini i think if we are honest, the institutions that we have in this Country Institutions that we have in this country have institutions that we have in this country have all institutions that we have in this country have all been institutions that we have in this country have all been Set Institutions that we have in this country have all been set up. Institutions that we have in this country have all been set up by| country have all been set up by politicians country have all been set up by politicians deliberately country have all been set up by politicians deliberately to politicians deliberately to constrain politicians deliberately to constrain politicians. Politicians deliberately to constrain politicians. Youj politicians deliberately to constrain politicians. You think about constrain politicians. You think about why constrain politicians. You think about why George Constrain politicians. You think about why George Osborne constrain politicians. You think about why George Osborne setj constrain politicians. You think. About why George Osborne set up constrain politicians. You think about why George Osborne set up the obr it about why George Osborne set up the obr it was about why George Osborne set up the obr it was to about why George Osborne set up the obr it was to give about why George Osborne set up the obr it was to give credibility about why George Osborne set up the obr it was to give credibility to obr it was to give credibility to the government obr it was to give credibility to the government fiscal obr it was to give credibility to the government fiscal policy. Obr it was to give Credibility Toi the government fiscal policy. So taking the government fiscal policy. So taking your the government fiscal policy. So taking yourargument the government fiscal policy. So taking your argument that the government fiscal policy. Soj taking your argument that these issues taking your argument that these issues and taking your argument that these issues and these taking your argument that these issues and these people taking your argument that these issues and these people have i taking your argument that these issues and these people have become too powerful. Issues and these people have become too powerful. How issues and these people have become too powerful, how much. Issues and these people have become too powerful, how much. Are issues and these people have become too powerful, how much. Are you i too powerful, how much. Are you arguing too powerful, how much. Are you arguing politicians too powerful, how much. Are you arguing politicians should too powerful, how much. Are you arguing politicians should not too powerful, how much. Are you arguing politicians should not be i arguing politicians should not be constrained, arguing politicians should not be constrained, where arguing politicians should not be constrained, where would arguing politicians should not be constrained, where would you i arguing politicians should not be i constrained, where would you draw the line . Constrained, where would you draw the line . , constrained, where would you draw the line . ,. , the line . Clearly there are some, for example the line . Clearly there are some, for example economic the line . Clearly there are some, | for example economic regulation. The line . Clearly there are some, i for example economic regulation. I think for example economic regulation. I think you for example economic regulation. I think you need independent institutions for that, you do not want institutions for that, you do not want ministers Making Decisions and competition cases or Planning Disputes competition cases or Planning Disputes and those types of things. But i disputes and those types of things. But i think disputes and those types of things. But i think what has happened over the last but i think what has happened over the last 30 but i think what has happened over the last 30 or 40 years is not more power the last 30 or 40 years is not more power has the last 30 or 40 years is not more power has gone to quangos. You are right, power has gone to quangos. You are right, politicians have done that partty right, politicians have done that partly because they thought we did not want partly because they thought we did not want to take the blame for these difficult not want to take the blame for these difficult decisions, we will pass the power over to this quango over there the power over to this quango over there but the power over to this quango over there but what actually happens is politicians get the blame anyway but you politicians get the blame anyway but you have less power over what those but you have less power over what those institutions do so i think we are now those institutions do so i think we are now in those institutions do so i think we are now in a those institutions do so i think we are now in a position where politicians have responsibility without politicians have responsibility without power and that is the problem without power and that is the problem. It is a problem for the ability problem. It is a problem for the ability to problem. It is a problem for the ability to attract a new generation of politicians. It is a job you get quite of politicians. It is a job you get quite a of politicians. It is a job you get quite a lot of politicians. It is a job you get quite a lot of black arent why take the ftak quite a lot of black arent why take the flak if quite a lot of black arent why take the flak if you are not able to affect the flak if you are not able to affect the change that you want to affect . Affect the change that you want to affect . I affect the change that you want to affect . I think that is a very serious affect . I think that is a very serious problem, i think we have a governance serious problem, i think we have a Governance Problem in this country about Governance Problem in this country about the Governance Problem in this country about the way institutions and politics about the way institutions and politics work so we need to sort that out politics work so we need to sort that out. ~. ,. , that out. Thinking about, imagining ourself in that out. Thinking about, imagining yourself in opposition, that out. Thinking about, imagining yourself in opposition, would that out. Thinking about, imagining yourself in opposition, would you. That out. Thinking about, imagining | yourself in opposition, would you be sanguine yourself in opposition, would you be sanguine about yourself in opposition, would you be sanguine about the yourself in opposition, would you be sanguine about the idea yourself in opposition, would you be sanguine about the idea of yourself in opposition, would you be sanguine about the idea of having i sanguine about the idea of having weakened sanguine about the idea of having weakened institutions, sanguine about the idea of having weakened institutions, less weakened institutions, less constraints weakened institutions, less constraints on weakened institutions, less constraints on politicians, l constraints on politicians, imagining constraints on politicians, imagining for constraints on politicians, imagining for example. Constraints on politicians, imagining for example a i constraints on politicians,. Imagining for example a John Mcdonnett imagining for example a John Mcdonnell treasury imagining for example a John Mcdonnell treasury making i imagining for example a John Mcdonnell treasury Making Spending Decisions . Mcdonnell treasury Making Spending Decisions . Iusi Mcdonnell Treasury Making Spending Decisions . , decisions . Just this point about weak institutions. Decisions . Just this point about weak institutions. What decisions . Just this point about weak institutions. What we decisions . Just this point about | weak institutions. What we have decisions . Just this point about. Weak institutions. What we have in britain weak institutions. What we have in britain is weak institutions. What we have in britain is vulcanised institutions so weve britain is vulcanised institutions so weve got lots of institutions that argue and compete with each other that argue and compete with each other so that argue and compete with each other so any local mp who has had to deal with other so any local mp who has had to deal with the Environment Agency and naturat deal with the Environment Agency and Natural England and see them passing the buck Natural England and see them passing the buck from one to the other knows that we the buck from one to the other knows that we do the buck from one to the other knows that we do not have an institutional setup that we do not have an institutional setup that that we do not have an institutional setup that works particularly well. And it setup that works particularly well. And it just setup that works particularly well. And itjust makes it hard for any decision and itjust makes it hard for any decision to and itjust makes it hard for any decision to get made. So its not like weve decision to get made. So its not like weve got strong institutions making like weve got strong institutions Making Decisions. What we have is inertia Making Decisions. What we have is inertia as Making Decisions. What we have is inertia as a Making Decisions. What we have is inertia as a result of the institutional setup we have but fundamentally, i am a democrat, institutional setup we have but fundamentally, lam a democrat, i believe fundamentally, lam a democrat, i believe that if the british people elected believe that if the british people elected John Mcdonnell as their prime elected John Mcdonnell as their Prime Minister which i dont think they will Prime Minister which i dont think they will do, he should be able to deliver they will do, he should be able to deliver his they will do, he should be able to deliver his manifesto as he has laid out, yes deliver his manifesto as he has laid out, es. � deliver his manifesto as he has laid out, es. ,. , deliver his manifesto as he has laid out, es. � ,. , ~ deliver his manifesto as he has laid out, es. I. ,. , out, yes. And you talk about bureaucrats out, yes. And you talk about bureaucrats having out, yes. And you talk about bureaucrats having the out, yes. And you talk about bureaucrats having the whip | out, yes. And you talk about bureaucrats having the whip hand over politicians. Bureaucrats having the whip hand over politicians. Can bureaucrats having the whip hand over politicians. Can you, bureaucrats having the whip hand over politicians. Can you, i bureaucrats having the whip hand over politicians. Can you, i meanl bureaucrats having the whip hand. Over politicians. Can you, i mean it seems over politicians. Can you, i mean it seems at over politicians. Can you, i mean it seems at least over politicians. Can you, i mean it seems at least on over politicians. Can you, i mean it seems at least on the over politicians. Can you, i mean it seems at least on the outside over politicians. Can you, i mean it seems at least on the outside that| seems at least on the outside that the evidence seems at least on the outside that the evidence is seems at least on the outside that the evidence is last seems at least on the outside that the evidence is last autumn seems at least on the outside that the evidence is last autumn the i the evidence is last autumn the treasury the evidence is last autumn the treasury delivered the evidence is last autumn the treasury delivered the the evidence is last autumn the treasury delivered the mini the evidence is last autumn the treasury delivered the mini budget that you treasury delivered the mini budget that you wished treasury delivered the mini budget that you wished to treasury delivered the mini budget that you wished to put treasury delivered the mini budget that you wished to put to that you wished to put to parliament that you wished to put to parliament. Can that you wished to put to parliament. Can you that you wished to put to parliament. Can you give| that you wished to put to. Parliament. Can you give us that you wished to put to parliament. Can you give us an example parliament. Can you give us an example of parliament. Can you give us an example of time parliament. Can you give us an example of time throughout i parliament. Can you give us an. Example of time throughout your Career Example of time throughout your career when example of time throughout your career when Civil Example of time throughout your career when Civil Servants example of time throughout your career when Civil Servants have. Career when Civil Servants have stopped career when Civil Servants have stopped you career when Civil Servants have stopped you doing career when Civil Servants have stopped you doing things career when Civil Servants have stopped you doing things that| career when Civil Servants have i stopped you doing things that you want today . Stopped you doing things that you want today . L stopped you doing things that you want today . Want today . I am writing a book about this want today . I am writing a book about this at want today . I am writing a book about this at the want today . I am writing a book about this at the moment want today . I am writing a book about this at the moment which | want today . I am writing a book. About this at the moment which is out in about this at the moment which is out in april about this at the moment which is out in april which will go through Department By department and point to ekactly Department By department and point to exactly what happened it is never to exactly what happened it is never as to exactly what happened it is never as clear as somebody has been stopped never as clear as somebody has been stopped from doing this. Theres lots of stopped from doing this. Theres lots of warnings and back covering, theres lots of warnings and back covering, theres Different Levels of enthusiasm for delivering a policy depending on what the policy is. So if its depending on what the policy is. So if its anything to do with Climate Change. If its anything to do with Climate Change, officials are enthusiastic and rush change, officials are enthusiastic and rush to get our papers but if its something about doing a deal with rwanda, there less enthusiasm so these with rwanda, there less enthusiasm so these things are not necessarily black so these things are not necessarily black and so these things are not necessarily black and white. And im going to say this black and white. And im going to say this because as a former Civil Servants say this because as a former Civil Servants ive worked with in the audience, servants ive worked with in the audience, lots of people in the Civil Service are brilliant at what they Civil Service are brilliant at what they do Civil Service are brilliant at what they do but i think the problem is a system they do but i think the problem is a System Problem rather than a People Problem System Problem rather than a People Problem. But certainly as a politician, trying to deliver what i believe politician, trying to deliver what i believe people had voted for, there is a lot believe people had voted for, there is a lot of believe people had voted for, there is a lot of institutional bureaucracy in the way and even during bureaucracy in the way and even during the bureaucracy in the way and even during the Leadership Election Campaign and maybe this did not make me Popular Campaign and maybe this did not make me popular with the obr and the Bank Of England me popular with the obr and the Bank Of England but i pointed out there was unorthodoxy in britain about economic was unorthodoxy in britain about Economic Policy and i try to challenge that orthodoxy and i did not find challenge that orthodoxy and i did not find a challenge that orthodoxy and i did not find a massive level of support, frankly, not find a massive level of support, frankly, from those institutions. You will frankly, from those institutions. You will be frankly, from those institutions. You will be pleased to know because of that you will be pleased to know because of that the you will be pleased to know because of that the ifp you will be pleased to know because of that the ifp has you will be pleased to know because of that the ifp has launched you will be pleased to know because of that the ifp has launched an of that the ifp has launched an entire of that the ifp has launched an entire project of that the ifp has launched an entire project on of that the ifp has launched an entire project on treasury of that the ifp has launched an entire project on Treasury Orthodoxy and one entire project on Treasury Orthodoxy and one of entire project on Treasury Orthodoxy and one of the entire project on Treasury Orthodoxy and one of the offices entire project on Treasury Orthodoxy and one of the offices in entire project on Treasury Orthodoxy and one of the offices in the and one of the offices in the audience and one of the offices in the audience of and one of the offices in the audience of over and one of the offices in the audience of over talk and one of the offices in the| audience of over talk further and one of the offices in the audience of over talk further about that audience of over talk further about that trying audience of over talk further about that trying to audience of over talk further about that. Trying to Work Audience of over talk further about that. Trying to work out audience of over talk further about that. Trying to work out the audience of over talk further about that. Trying to work out the realityj that. Trying to work out the reality of it and that. Trying to work out the reality of it and the that. Trying to work out the reality of it and the impact that. Trying to work out the reality of it and the impact it that. Trying to work out the reality of it and the impact it has. Of it and the impact it has. Finally, of it and the impact it has. Finally, i of it and the impact it has. Finally, i want of it and the impact it has. Finally, i want to of it and the impact it has. Finally, i want to be of it and the impact it has. Finally, i want to be one. Of it and the impact it has. Finally, i want to be one question to you finally, i want to be one question to you about finally, i want to be one question to you about short finally, i want to be one question to you about short term finally, i want to be one question to you about short term and finally, i want to be one questionl to you about short term and some finally, i want to be one question i to you about short term and some in government to you about short term and some in government which to you about short term and some in government which is to you about short term and some in government which is a to you about short term and some in government which is a in to you about short term and some in government which is a in the to you about short term and some in government which is a in the ift government which is a in the ift thinks government which is a in the ift thinks and government which is a in the ift thinks and talks government which is a in the ift thinks and talks a government which is a in the ift thinks and talks a lot government which is a in the ift thinks and talks a lot about government which is a in the ift thinks and talks a lot about an i thinks and talks a lot about an degrees thinks and talks a lot about an degrees is thinks and talks a lot about an degrees is a thinks and talks a lot about an degrees is a problem. Thinks and talks a lot about an degrees is a problem. You thinks and talks a lot about an i degrees is a problem. You talked about degrees is a problem. You talked about risk degrees is a problem. You talked about risk stored degrees is a problem. You talked about risk stored for degrees is a problem. You talked about risk stored for the degrees is a problem. You talked about risk stored for the future. I ust about risk stored for the future. I just wanted about risk stored for the future. I just wanted very about risk stored for the future. I just wanted very simply about risk stored for the future. I just wanted very simply to about risk stored for the future. I just wanted very simply to ask i about risk stored for the future. I i just wanted very simply to ask you whether just wanted very simply to ask you whether you just wanted very simply to ask you whether you reconcile just wanted very simply to ask you whether you reconcile that just wanted very simply to ask you whether you reconcile that with i just wanted very simply to ask you i whether you reconcile that with also advocating whether you reconcile that with also advocating for whether you reconcile that with also advocating for in whether you reconcile that with also advocating for in green whether you reconcile that with also advocating for in green policies advocating for in green policies which advocating for in green policies which is advocating for in green policies which is an advocating for in green policies which is an area advocating for in green policies which is an area in advocating for in green policies which is an area in which advocating for in green policies which is an area in which the i Advocating For In Green Policiesi which is an area in which the Uk Advocating For In Green Policies which is an area in which the uk has deliberately which is an area in which the uk has deliberately put which is an area in which the uk has deliberately put in which is an area in which the uk has deliberately put in place deliberately put in place institutions deliberately put in place institutions to deliberately put in place institutions to try deliberately put in place institutions to try and i deliberately put in place. Institutions to try and help ourselves institutions to try and help ourselves think institutions to try and help ourselves think long institutions to try and help ourselves think long term i institutions to try and help i ourselves think long term but institutions to try and help ourselves think long term but you are arguing ourselves think long term but you are arguing to ourselves think long term but you are arguing to load ourselves think long term but you are arguing to load the ourselves think long term but you| are arguing to load the macroback ourselves think long term but you. Are arguing to load the macroback on some are arguing to load the macroback on some of are arguing to load the macroback on some of that . Are arguing to load the macroback on some of that . So are arguing to load the macroback on some of that . Some of that . So my view is we should be some of that . So my view is we should be prioritising some of that . So my view is we should be prioritising the some of that . So my view is we l should be prioritising the struggle for freedom and democracy. Should be prioritising the Struggle Forfreedom and democracy. Ifear that some of the way we are implementing the Climate Change agenda and are net zero targets, is actually making us less competitive vis a vis china who are not following, who do not have net zero 2050, etc. So i think there is a wider debate to be had about the cost of implementing the Climate Change agenda. The way in which it is being done and whether or not there is genuine International Agreement on dealing with the issue. So i do not think that has been properly fleshed out and debated. I think it has been institutionalised before it actually has democratic concerns. , ~ before it actually has democratic concerns. , ~ ,. , before it actually has democratic concerns. , ~ ,. , y. Before it actually has democratic concerns. , ~ ,. Concerns. Thank you very much. Some cuestions concerns. Thank you very much. Some questions from concerns. Thank you very much. Some questions from the concerns. Thank you very much. Some questions from the floor. Concerns. Thank you very much. Some questions from the floor. There concerns. Thank you very much. Some questions from the floor. There will i questions from the floor. There will be a roving questions from the floor. There will be a roving microphone, questions from the floor. There will be a roving microphone, please questions from the floor. There will. 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Can we go to faisat online questions. Can we go to faisat istam online questions. Can we go to faisal islam there online questions. Can we go to faisal islam there please . Online questions. Can we go toi faisal islam there please . Tier . Faisal islam there please . Very secific faisal islam there please . Very specific question. Faisal islam there please . Very specific question. The faisal islam there please . Specific question. The obr definitively offered to do a hmmfi definitively offered to do a forecast on the subject of your budget, forecast on the subject of your budget, you had that offer on the desk of budget, you had that offer on the desk of the chancellor in the first day and desk of the chancellor in the first day and office so did the Chancellor Reiect day and office so did the Chancellor Reiect that day and office so did the chancellor reject that and do you regret that decision reject that and do you regret that decision in reject that and do you regret that decision in retrospect and more widely decision in retrospect and more widely whatever the theory behind what happened last autumn it did affect what happened last autumn it did affect families and households. What would affect families and households. What would you affect families and households. What would you say to them now, what you apologise would you say to them now, what you apologise to would you say to them now, what you apologise to them . Right would you say to them now, what you apologise to them . Apologise to them . Right at the back corner. Thank you, lucy fisher from the financial thank you, lucy fisher from the financial times. Thank you, lucy fisher from the financialtimes. Firstly, iwould like to financialtimes. Firstly, iwould like to ask financialtimes. Firstly, iwould like to ask for your response to mark like to ask for your response to mark carney who said instead of delivering the Brexiteer Dream Of Singapore on terms your administration delivered argentina on the administration delivered argentina on the channel and when you talk about on the channel and when you talk about the on the channel and when you talk about the anti Growth Coalition spreading to parts of the conservative Parliamentary Party are you talking conservative Parliamentary Party are you talking about rishi sunak and turning you talking about rishi sunak and turning to you talking about rishi sunak and turning to the right of the Conservative Party which youd like to hear Conservative Party which youd like to hear your colleagues on the right be to hear your colleagues on the right he more to hear your colleagues on the right be more vocal and do you consider yourself be more vocal and do you consider yourself to be more vocal and do you consider yourself to have a Convening Role for the yourself to have a Convening Role for the right of the party in the future . For the right of the party in the future . Thank you. We for the right of the party in the future . Thank you. For the right of the party in the future . Thank you. We will take one more, this future . Thank you. We will take one more. This lady future . Thank you. We will take one more, this lady here. Future . Thank you. We will take one more, this lady here. Thank future . Thank you. We will take one more, this lady here. Thank you. Future . Thank you. We will take one more, this lady here. Thank you. Alij more, this lady here. Thank you. Ali fou~ht a more, this lady here. Thank you. Ali fought a scare more, this lady here. Thank you. Ali fought a scare from more, this lady here. Thank you. Ali fought a scare from sky more, this lady here. Thank you. Ali fought a scare from sky news. More, this lady here. Thank you. Ali fought a scare from sky news. For. Fought a scare from sky news. For all of fought a scare from sky news. For all of the fought a scare from sky news. For all of the specifics you talk about today, all of the specifics you talk about today, how things could have been done today, how things could have been done differently do you accept being in charge done differently do you accept being in charge is about credibility and you faced in charge is about credibility and you faced a Credibility Crisis when you faced a Credibility Crisis when you were you faced a Credibility Crisis when you were in you faced a Credibility Crisis when you were in charge and you put the credibility you were in charge and you put the credibility of uk Economic Policy into question. Given how passionate you are into question. Given how passionate you are about the growth because are you are about the growth because are you ready you are about the growth because are you ready your personally set the course you ready your personally set the course back . Course back . Thank you. Do you recret course back . Thank you. Do you regret not course back . Thank you. Do you regret not taking course back . Thank you. Do you regret not taking up course back . Thank you. Do you regret not taking up the course back . Thank you. Do you regret not taking up the obr course back . Thank you. Do you. Regret not taking up the obr offer . What do regret not taking up the obr offer . What do you regret not taking up the obr offer . What do you say regret not taking up the obr offer . What do you say to regret not taking up the obr offer . What do you say to the regret not taking up the obr offer . What do you say to the families what do you say to the families where what do you say to the families where your what do you say to the families where your policies what do you say to the families where your policies had what do you say to the families where your policies had an what do you say to the families. Where your policies had an effect what do you say to the families where your policies had an effect on them, where your policies had an effect on thenr, argentina where your policies had an effect on them, argentina on where your policies had an effect on them, argentina on the where your policies had an effect on them, argentina on the channel . I where your policies had an effect on| them, argentina on the channel . Do you see them, argentina on the channel . Do you see yourself them, argentina on the channel . Do you see yourself as them, argentina on the channel . Do you see yourself as having them, argentina on the channel . Do you see yourself as having a you see yourself as having a convening you see yourself as having a Convening Role . You see yourself as having a Convening Role . And you see yourself as having a Convening Role . And how. You see yourself as having a j Convening Role . And how do you see yourself as having a Convening Role . And how do you feel about Convening Role . And how do you feel about this Convening Role . And how do you feel about this question Convening Role . And how do you feel about this question of Convening Role . And how do you feel about this question of credibility . About this question of credibility . 0n the about this question of credibility . 0n the obr. About this question of credibility . 0n the obr, there about this question of credibility . 0n the obr, there were about this question of credibility . 0n the obr, there were lots about this question of credibility . 0n the obr, there were lots of. On the obr, there were lots of announcements made during covid i9 on furlough that had no obr forecast. They involved greater fiscal expenditure than the mini budget. 50 i think its interesting that Media Organisations choose to target the mini budget as not having an obr forecast but do not mention when it is about spending and i dont think that reveals a mindset which is spending is good and we will always be relaxed about that but cutting taxes is somehow a sort of countercultural thing to do and i think that is reflected in the media, it is reflected in the policy more broadly. There is no reason we had to do an obr forecast, the obr officially forecast twice a year around majorfiscal officially forecast twice a year around major fiscal events, officially forecast twice a year around majorfiscal events, the plan was to do a fiscal event later in the autumn which would also have the Spending Plans in it but what we needed to do because the Energy Situation was so desperate, and we also wanted to reverse the National Insurance rise, and send a signal to companies about Corporation Tax which we had a very short lead time on, that is what we did the mini budget when we did but as i said it was no bigger than the otherfiscal events that had no obr forecast and we did not think it was and not to have an obr forecast. The obr should be there to present the entire Spending Plans in the round. Normally an issue of what happened surrounding the mini budget, another point i would make is that i do not think organisations like the bbc did a brilliantjob of actually analysing the ldi crisis and what happened there. I dont think there was an effective critique of the Bank Of England and it really goes back to the point about institutions and politicians ending up having all of the responsibility but not necessarily the power. And i do not think the media who seem to absolutely love to gossip about politics are particularly great at analysing the role of institutions and what they do. You notice if ever there is an official from and what they do. You notice if ever there is an officialfrom one and what they do. You notice if ever there is an official from one of these organisations, they get a much easier ride in a bbc interview than a politician would. So, you know, i wait to see that happen. As i said, as i said in my speech, Interest Rates were going to go up anyway. I think the realfailure rates were going to go up anyway. I think the real failure was not to tell people years and years ago that these Interest Rates were artificially low. That was the problem. We gave people an expectation that cheap money will go on forever and then, when the Interest Rates went up, there was a problem but this really leads me nicely onto mark carney laughter. I talked about the 25 Year Economic consensus but that has been the Central Banks and i think they have played an Important Role in pumping the system full of money. The system full of money. Keeping Interest Rates the system full of money. Keeping Interest Rates artificially the system full of money. Keeping Interest Rates artificially low, Interest Rates artificially low, essentially enabling the success of Government Spending to take place and im afraid theres quite a lot of finger pointing going on from people like mark carney because they do not want to admit their culpability or the culpability of the central Banking Associates in this and again, i think of Course Politicians should be held accountable and responsible for what we do. But when there are people with significant power, you know, i do not feel the same questions are necessarily asked about them. Mark carney as part of the 25 Year Economic consensus that has led to low growth across the western world and no doubt he is defensive about that. On the subject, it was a question from lucy about mps, wasnt it . Ithink question from lucy about mps, wasnt it . I think there are, this is why i highlighted the 150 conservative mps that have written to the Prime Minister on the subject of not wanting to change Climate Change regulations. I believe the way we are implementing those Climate Change regulations is adding to the Cost Of Living. And if there is anything we should be doing at the moment it is reducing costs for hassles. I am an unashamed supporter of fracking. I know Energy Prices in the us are half what they are in the uk because they fully exploit their Shale Reserves and if we did the same in the uk, we would be able to have much Cheaper Energy and that would reduce the pressure on households, help make businesses more competitive and that is not happening because of a very fixed view of how we deliver our Climate Change targets. This is an issue that the conservative Parliamentary Party does not agree on, and that is the fundamental problem. There are people like me who think we should focus on getting growth going and improving the Cost Of Living for people around the country, that is certainly what i hear on the doorsteps from my constituents about what they are bothered about. But others do not agree with that. And thatis others do not agree with that. And that is why i make this speech today because i want to convince my Party Colleagues of that point. I mean come on credibility, without wishing to bang on about the same points i have been making, it is very difficult if the government of the day has an Economic Policy that clearly leading economic institutions in the uk and indeed internationally, do not necessarily agree with and during the time of the mini budget, the mini budget was attacked by the imf on inequality grants, it was attacked by President Biden and it was also not wholly supported i think its fair to say, by various uk institutions so that is difficult, of course, for international credibility. But i had a choice. The chancellor had a choice, we either tried to do something to fix the problem or we went along with the orthodoxy and did nothing, that was the choice facing us and i do not regret the choice i made. If people say well, you put the case back for free markets, what i think i have been able to do and i am going to say more about this in my book which is coming out in april, i think you can already preorder. I will be saying more about this in my back. Is that. This has given me a real insight into why its so difficult for governments to deliver a smaller state, more tax cuts. Its notjust a problem that there isnt enough political agreement, we actually have real institutional issues with delivering these things and that is what i am going to explore further. 0k, what i am going to explore further. Ok, i what i am going to explore further. 0k, iwill what i am going to explore further. Ok, iwill take what i am going to explore further. Ok, i will take another round from the roonr~ 0k, will take another round from the roonr~ can ok, i will take another round from the room. Can we ok, i will take another round from the room. Can we go ok, i will take another round from the room. Can we go to 0k, will take another round from the room. Can we go to kitty ok, i will take another round from i the room. Can we go to kitty there, in the the room. Can we go to kitty there, in the aisle the room. Can we go to kitty there, in the aisle in the room. Can we go to kitty there, in the aisle in front the room. Can we go to kitty there, in the aisle in front of you, the room. Can we go to kitty there, in the aisle in front of you, that in the aisle in front of you, that lady in the aisle in front of you, that lady there . In the aisle in front of you, that lady there . In the aisle in front of you, that lady there . Kitty donelson from Bloomberg Lady there . Kitty donelson from bloomberg. In lady there . Kitty donelson from bloomberg. In your lady there . Kitty donelson from bloomberg. In your speech lady there . Kitty donelson from bloomberg. In your speech he l lady there . Kitty donelson from bloomberg. In your speech he blamed a host bloomberg. In your speech he blamed a host of bloomberg. In your speech he blamed a host of people for the problem. Studio a host of people for the problem. Studio that was less stress he gave a short speech some time ago and is facing questions from an audience of journalists and this is that the Institute For Government in central london. Our correspondent has been listening to the speech and the questions put to her. Whitewashing here, right now and fought for her main take away points, i should say, you takeaway . I main take away points, i should say, you takeaway . You takeaway . I thought it was utterly fascinating, you takeaway . I thought it was utterly fascinating, i you takeaway . I thought it was utterly fascinating, i may you takeaway . I thought it was utterly fascinating, i may say i you takeaway . I thought it was i utterly fascinating, i may say that as a politicaljunkie and correspondent but why is she doing it now . Because i think she feels the case needs to be made for an alternative right of Centre Economics and economics of the smaller state, lower taxes, deregulation and that she would see it more flexibility on the issues of Climate Change. And on the personal side, it is liz truss saying her economics were right, i was right, the economics establishments, the banks were grown, they did not get my policy is a chance and neither did the governing Conservative Party but what is so fascinating about this is that anybody in this country or beyond who thought that somehow that idea of an alternative right wing economics has someone died, less stress had accepted the experiment had not worked, that is absolutely wrong. Clearly people continue as a light of belief for many in the governing Conservative Party especially on the economic right, yes, we should pursue this and it will be fascinating to see what happens after the next election, lets say the conservatives are defeated, that is a so will it be the lustrous version of the first Ronald Reagan view of trickle down deregulation, supply side economics, will that one out . Fascinating. She has not given up, those Who Support Inside and outside the Conservative Party will not have given up either. Lots of other people watching will think, my goodness she has learnt nothing Taste Goodness she has learnt nothing we have got the conference at the beginning of october, havent we . She is billed as attending that at how much support does she have within the party . It is how much support does she have within the party . Within the party . It is worth reminding within the party . It is worth reminding ourselves, within the party . It is worth reminding ourselves, i within the party . It is worth | reminding ourselves, i know within the party . It is worth reminding ourselves, i know and i was there and i was a the hustings when she beat rishi sunak, she is very popular inside the governing Conservative Party, amongst its activists, they are thought to the right of most ordinary british voters and they genuinely believe in lower taxes and a smaller state, there will be plenty at the conservative Party Conference who share her worldview. Will she mount some sort of coup against rishi sunak . Will she somehow undermine his position . I do not really think so, i think the conservatives take the view they have rishi sunak for now. I think the really big interesting battle will come after the next general election, you have this fight, genuinely interesting, over ideology and economics, what is the best way forward and why is it that britain is not going, is it because taxes are too high, there is too much regulation and that the state stifles everything . There are plenty of economists who say the absolute opposite is true Rab Absolute Opposite is true rob watson, thank absolute opposite is true rob watson, thank you absolute opposite is true rob watson, thank you so much. More on this story on the website, filled with analysis of What Lustrous has had to say. More coming up right here on bbc news at the top of the hour. Do not go away. Liz truss. Live from london, this is bbc news. Five americans jailed for years in iran are expected to fly home today. Its part of a Prisoner Swap Deal Mediated by qatar. Russia argues its case before the International Court ofjustice. Its defending itself against ukraines claims that it falsely used genocide law to justify its invasion. More women come forward with sexual allegations against the comedian russell brand. Hes denied the claims. Three greek Rescue Workers are killed, travelling to libyas flood zone. Its believed about 10,000 people are still missing. Hello, im lukwesa burak. Welcome to bbc news. Russian lawyers have this morning appeared in the hague to object to the International Court ofjustice hearing ukraines allegations against the country. Kyiv filed the case shortly after russias invasion last year, Accusing Moscow of falsely using genocide law to justify the attack. Russia says the world court has no jurisdiction over the matter. Earlier, i spoke to the Foreign Correspondent anna holligan, whos in the hague. Im outside the Uns Highest Court now. You can see its also a popular tourist attraction. The Hearing Hasjust started