who are here with their son hector — and say their children are being discriminated against. and the former victims‘ commissioner, baroness newlove, says "it's an absolute disgrace" that she wasn't told that one of the men convicted of killing her husband, garry, was given permission to walk the streets of the town where the family lives, in preparation for his release. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11:00am this morning. we are going to talk about the campaign to persuade the health secretary amend the abortion act to prevent terminations after 2a weeks for all non—fatal disablities — including down‘s syndrome. i want to ask you this morning if you have had a termination after 2a weeks, and if you had what was the reasoning? if you have aborted a baby detected as having down‘s symdrome. why did you take that unbelieveably difficult decision? you can e—mail anonymously and to your contributions will be fed into oui’ your contributions will be fed into our conversation this morning. austria is considering imposing border controls with italy which has the worst outbreak of the coronavirus in europe. last night a train from venice was temporarily denied entry at an alpine pass, because of two suspected cases on board. 152 cases have now been confirmed in italy — a strict quarantine remains in force in parts of northern italy. the home office has dismissed what it says are false allegations against the home secretary priti patel. she's been accused of mistreating staff and creating an atmosphere of fear at her department. media reports that ms patel is distrusted by intelligence chiefs have also been dismissed as "false" by the government. airports in the canary islands have reopened after a weekend of paralysis brought about by a saharan dust storm. thousands of tourists trying to get home from one of europe's most popular holiday destinations have been facing major upheaval. heavy winds blew sand from the sahara, affecting visibility. julian assange will appear at woolwich crown court today at the start of his extradition hearing. the wikilea ks founder, who spent seven years hiding in the ecuadorian embassy in london, is wanted in the us on 18 charges, including conspiring to hack government computers and violating an espionage law. the mother of martyn hett, who died in the terror attack at manchester arena, has called on venues to help shape a new law to ensure the public‘s safety at events. figen murray has been lobbying the government to bring in security measures since her son's death in 2017. the home office says it's going to consult the public about the new law. president trump has arrived in india for his first official visit to the country. he was welcomed by the indian prime minister, narendra modi, before a crowd of more than 100,000 people at a cricket stadium in the state of gujarat — part of a lavish two—day visit, described as unprecedented for a foreign visitor to india. the election to choose labour's new leader gets underway today, with the ballot papers largely being sent out to members by email over the next week. they will choose one of three candidates — sir kier starmer, rebecca long—bailey and lisa nandy. the result will be announced at a special conference on the 11th of april. a working sheepdog from a remote farm in northumberland has been sold for a world record price at auction. two—and—half—year—old megan — owned by emma gray — smashed with world record by selling for £18,900. the sheepdog went to a telephone bidderfrom the united states. it's reported megan's new life will be herding beef cattle. good luck to her. back to victoria. families are calling on the government to change a law that allows women to abort unborn babies with down‘s syndrome at any time up until their birth. they've written to the health secretary asking him to amend the 50—year—old abortion act to prevent terminations after 2a weeks for all nonfatal disablities — including down‘s syndrome, where you're born with an extra chromosome. heidi crowter is 2a — who's here with her mum liz crowter — and cheryl and david bilsborrow — who are here with their son hector — they're being backed in their campaign by the actor the actor sally phillips, whose son 0lly has down‘s syndrome. thank you for coming on the programme. heidi, what do you think of the current law? i find it deeply offensive. i am someone with the condition. i would say that it has made a difference for people. how does it make you feel that someone can have an abortion if they find out their unborn baby has down syndrome? it makes me feel unloved and unwanted. i think about the story of cats, all the other cats hated the character grizzabella because she was different. cheryl, david. hello. and hector. say hello, hector. what do you think of the law that allows a determination up to the point of birth for an unborn baby with down syndrome? the point of birth for an unborn baby with down syndrome ?|i the point of birth for an unborn baby with down syndrome? i think it's downright discrimination. it's not right at all. we think at the end of the day all babies, children, everybody should be treated equally. look at hector. and heidi. there is fio look at hector. and heidi. there is no difference between any of us at the end of the day. we are all human. liz, what do you want the health secretary to do? we would like the health secretary to look at the law in the light of 2020, rather than 50 years ago. and change the law so all babies in the womb are treated the same, so there is no discrimination in the womb. 2a weeks is the limit to the government has set for termination and that should be for all babies in the womb, not up be for all babies in the womb, not up to birth. and if that were to happen, as you know, it would limit some women's choices when it comes to how they want to live their lives. i understand that. and obviously any termination is taken very seriously by any woman, or any couple. at the end of the day, that is their choice to do that. but most disabilities will be found before 2a weeks so if they were to make that decision, that very hard decision for them, then ultimately it is their choice and i would hope they would get support and up—to—date and correct information about down syndrome before they make their decision. in terms of the disabilities, where it is not found out until later in the pregnancy, it is still a very hard decision to make. i have heard of couples who have carried on with pregnancies where the baby has been incompatible with life, with a life limiting decision leeds condition, and they have chosen to carry on. they have had may a few hours, a few days, a few weeks with their baby. there was a lady a friend met last week who was diagnosed with being incompatible for life and the child is now eight years old. so i would say that doctors are not always right. the effect of your campaigning would be to limit the choice of some women, who perhaps according to antenatal organisations, who say that there are some babies with conditions that are some babies with conditions that are not detected until the third trimester. that is true, definitely. so in those cases are you saying a woman should give birth, should be forced to give birth?” woman should give birth, should be forced to give birth? i think late term abortion is so abhorrent, it is so... term abortion is so abhorrent, it is so... may be that is not the right word. but it is so horrible a thing to do. it's painful for the baby and the woman. it is. and doctors are sometimes wrong. and also, women who have given birth who i have heard speak, they have had those four weeks with that child and have been able to bond with that child. but that was their choice. i am suggesting that if your campaigning is successful, it will take away some women's choices. but we are not here about those choices, we are here about those choices, we are here about those choices, we are here about the discrimination. about treating everyone equal. that's why we are here today. what about hector and your treatment and how you were treated by medical professionals will stop i felt pressured to terminate. and also pressured to begin with to have a blood test. the screening test. i felt pressured into having a test because i was an older mum. once i had the test i received a phone call, the worst phone call from hell. they were saying that they were sorry, using the wrong terminology, me being higher risk of having a child with down's syndrome. and after that i actually had a harmony test, which is an extra blood test which cost quite a bit of money, and i could have spent that on something else. not that i would ever abort, that is my choice, but also then being treated differently with regards to them all knowing hector had down's syndrome. and even being offered termination at full term on the friday and giving birth to him on the sunday. what was said to you? she has turned round and said to me, you do know that we still terminate babies with down syndrome at 38 weeks. i said, babies with down syndrome at 38 weeks. isaid, i babies with down syndrome at 38 weeks. i said, iwill babies with down syndrome at 38 weeks. i said, i will pretend i didn't hear that. i was blown away, shocked and disgusted. and here is hector, and he's absolutely beautiful, aren't you? he has a modelling career! he has a lot of people that love him. give us a wave, blow us a kiss. he has a great fan club. i can be his fan. at the end of the day there is no difference whatsoever and nobody should be put into that category of being different because at the end of the day we are in 2020. heidi, to ask you a question, if a woman, or a couple are watching now and they are pregnant. and they have received the news that their child could have down‘s syndrome, what would you say to them? i would say, don't be scared, carry on with the pregnancy. i would also give the advice to meet people with down syndrome, get to know them, and see that there is a person behind that condition. and james is your fiancee, person behind that condition. and james is yourfiancee, when person behind that condition. and james is your fiancee, when are you getting married? 18 weeks and five days. my days! looking beautiful. look at that. there we are wedding dress shopping. he made a very good impression on me. he made a good impression on me. he made a good impression on me. he made a good impression on all of us. he is a handsome lad. how did he make a good impression? my mum's cousin is at his church. sol impression? my mum's cousin is at his church. so i met him. and i met the person behind that chromosome. tell me why you fell in love with him? it was when we had our first kiss. he is a very good kisser.m took literally one kiss! lots of facebook conversations. and he paid for the meal we had together. i'm going to be mrs carter! can i see your engagement ring? of course. he gave this to me on the 13th of december. that's the day we got married, 13th of december. 18th. i apologise, i thought you said 13th. cani apologise, i thought you said 13th. can i say hello to him? and he makes me feel the happiest person in the world. he is the person i love. when my brother was in hospital, he was ill, but he gave me a big hug. congratulations, and i hope you have the most incredible wedding day. i bet you will. david, can we hear from you? bet you will. david, can we hear from you ? why bet you will. david, can we hear from you? why are you backing this campaign? mainly on the discrimination part, because, as has already been said, there is no difference between one human and another human. everybody should be given a chance and be treated equally. in this age of diversity and everything else, we want that diversity in our society. john e—mails to say he is single dad of three and his youngest daughter has down syndrome and will be turning ten in april. during the pregnancy, at every opportunity, the medical staff asked, and encouraged, a termination of our child. in the end i lost my temper to finally stop asking us this. this campaign has my full support. thank you. george says he has twins, one of whom has down syndrome. he is great. his experience was very negative with health care when his wife was negative with twins, as if they wa nted negative with twins, as if they wanted us to abort my son, who is a jov- wanted us to abort my son, who is a joy. christina on facebook says, so what, they have down‘s syndrome and come with challenges, but guess what, so does every single child. children with down syndrome are the sweetest a nd children with down syndrome are the sweetest and most loving children i know. they are brilliant. and they have exactly the same emotions as anyone else. if heidi's internet brea ks anyone else. if heidi's internet breaks down she is not happy young lady! she is not happy all the time because she has the same emotions as anyone else. she is loving because she is loved. my other children are living because she is loved. department of health statement says abortion is a matter of conscience and it right that parliament votes ona and it right that parliament votes on a free vote when abortions can be performed under a 1967 abortion act. any decision to terminate must rest on theirjudgment of a woman and her doctors. only when two doctors both agree that there is a risk of a child being born with a serious abnormality can a child be aborted outside the 2a week limit. we will follow your campaign. there is a crowded justice fund. i have forgotten the link, but there is a facebook page, heidi has her own facebook page, heidi has her own facebook page, heidi crowter, live the dream. and there is a facebook page and a hashtag, i'm with heidi. and we are with hector as well! thank you all for coming in and have a fantastic wedding day. send us some pictures. i will. a fantastic wedding day. send us some pictures. iwill. can a fantastic wedding day. send us some pictures. i will. can we show it on the television? of course. it will be like the royal wedding! and he isa will be like the royal wedding! and he is a very good kisser, by the way! we heard you the first time. coming up later in the programme... this man, garry newlove, was killed by three teenagers 12 years ago. now two of his killers are set to be released. we'll speak to his wife — the former victims commissioner baroness newlove — who says the way their release is being handled is "an absolute disgrace". she's one of britain's most famous actresses — and we're set to see her soon as the queen in the netflix series the crown — but first imelda staunton‘s here in the studio to talk about her new tv drama which starts tonight. so, what's going on at the home office? priti patel — the home secretary — is said to be "deeply concerned" about what she believes are false allegations in the media about her. the government has been forced to deny claims that m15 held back information from ms patel because security chiefs didn't trust her. and last weeek, ms patel was accused of trying to force out the most senior civil servant in her department. one former cabinet minister, theresa villiers, says the allegations against ms patel are misogynistic. i'm sick of spiteful briefings against women in high public office. it happens again and again, and i don't believe these allegations against priti patel. i think she's a highly—effective home secretary and i think whoever is making these briefings should stop it, because i think they're unfair and they're damaging. interesting that you say against women. you think there's an element of misogyny in this? yes, yes, i do. let's talk to our assistant political editor, norman smith. what's going on? i think what's going on is priti patel has arrived in the home office determined to push ahead at high speed and is coming into conflict with some civil serva nts coming into conflict with some civil servants who are raising questions and doubts, saying, have you thought about this, minister and do not need to check that. and she doesn't like it. she wants to move ahead with the government's agenda and is finding the question is, if you like, of civil servants a little constraining. that is now bubbling up constraining. that is now bubbling up into the public domain. is it misogyny? it's a difficult one. it's worth noting that before priti patel was home secretary, amongst her predecessors was amber rudd. another very tough—minded woman. before that it was theresa may who had been in the home office longer i think than any other recent home secretary. it's not as a senior civil servants in the home office are not used to dealing with women who are determined to get what they want. i suspect it is more just that priti patel is a woman in a hurry. she herself is under huge pressure, bear in mind, because she has been tasked with putting in place a new immigration system at high speed that has to be good to go within months. she has to recruit 20,000 police officers and has to deal with the aftermath of the windrush saga. there was the whole controversy over the deportation issue the other day. she has a lot on her plate and i think frankly some of the plaster is coming off the walls at the home office. so will there be some sort of enquiry into who is doing the negative briefings to the media about her? we are told she has asked for one. i would about her? we are told she has asked for one. iwould be about her? we are told she has asked for one. i would be sceptical because these enquiries, frankly, never achieve anything. theyjust go round and round the houses and at the end of the day not much happens. i think more likely is that there may be a desire to maybe move the top civil servant at the home office who finds himself somewhat at odds with priti patel, and a move to bring someone else in, sir philip rutnam. this is almost parfor bring someone else in, sir philip rutnam. this is almost par for the course when you have someone coming in with a new agenda. very often they want someone more on board. people are not particularly upset in government that priti patel is having some run in this. they take the view that it doesn't look that bad because it does look as if she and others are taking on the establishment, the remain, business as usual officialdom that you find in the civil service, they would say in the civil service, they would say in the bbc, the house of lords, the judiciary. i don't think anyone at number ten will be concerned about priti patel. they will be thinking, yeah, that's absolutely fine. norman, thank you. 13 years ago, garry newlove left his house in warrington to stop a gang of young men vandalising his wife's car. they knocked him to the ground, kicking his head "like a football" — the court later heard — in a horrific attack witnessed by his three young daughters. he died in hospital two days later. three teenagers were convicted of his murder and received life sentences, with varying minimum terms. now, two of those men are set to be released. garry newlove's wife, former victims‘ commissioner baroness newlove, says she wasn't even told that one of them had been given pemission to walk the streets of warrington — where the family live — in preparation for his release. and she describes that as "an absolute disgace". we can speak to you now. thank you for coming on the programme. how has this happened, when you are the former victims commissioner? exactly. finding out that stephen sorton and jordan cunliffe were in open prison, i knew that, but logistically where they were placed, victims are not informed. i only found out when i was prepared to go tojordan found out when i was prepared to go to jordan cunliffe's found out when i was prepared to go tojordan cunliffe's parole hearing. where you get told to meet. it was in warrington and i found out the day before i was in warrington to receive an award for all the work i have gone from the people of warrington, and i just have gone from the people of warrington, and ijust couldn't believe that nobody had even thought of the area. i felt physically sick, i work there, i live there, my family are there, and more importantly it was feeling that garry's life was just part of an evidence trail. it was a disgrace to garry. and this man, in preparation for his release, was walking through the streets of warrington. when they go to open prison they have a three month lie down, they call it, where they are assessed. they start to go out escorted, then unescorted and they have what is known as a release on temporary license, meaning they go out for weekends. i know he has a job. that could be locally where high have lived, worked and shopped. and even on the event in warrington that night, he could have been there and that made me feel physically sick, because it was laughing at garry again, and it was almost as bad as going back to the first day. from your point of view, the parole board... this man has served his minimum term but the parole board wouldn't be releasing him, they say, u nless wouldn't be releasing him, they say, unless he wasn't a danger to the public. he has been through the rehabilitation process. from your point of view he should not be allowed in that area or he should be staying injail? allowed in that area or he should be staying in jail? life allowed in that area or he should be staying injail? life means allowed in that area or he should be staying in jail? life means life, that's the sentence. but what it means is a minimum term injail and then you are unlicensed for life. so if you break that you are recalled. that's an important point of everything to stop work i have done asa everything to stop work i have done as a former victims commissioner. when you are in a courtroom you hear and read that they are given a sentence for life. then you get a tariff. i know all that goes on, so to be physically told he is there where i live, so he has his parole board hearing, jordan cunliffe, has it in march because it has been adjourned. stephen sorton is the person who has been allowed to come out. that again is a pure mockery when i have read the summary.” out. that again is a pure mockery when i have read the summary. i have read it as well. to read some of it. stephen sorton, evidence was presented regarding his progress and custodial conduct during his sentence. he had undertaken accredited programmes to address offending behaviour and completed vocational training courses. his work in custody had explored his use of violence, decision—making, alcohol issues, use of illegal drugs and victim awareness. all witnesses recommended his release. they looked ata recommended his release. they looked at a release plan and assessed the risk. the plan includes a requirement he lives in designated accommodation as well as strict limitations on his contacts, movement and activities together with steps to protect the victims‘ family. the panel noted the exclusion zone requested by the victim‘s family, that is to say you, had been extended to a wider area than the earlier requested zone. the panel determined the extended zone was not proportionate and preferred the original excluding zone. that's the original excluding zone. that's the bit where we allow a reconsideration mechanism to fill in. but my title is baroness newlove of warrington. it says it on the tin. the fact they are saying that there is no reason why i should have this exclusion zone is the wrong way around. that‘s what i want to change. i have no legal representation to explain why we wa nt representation to explain why we want that. we have a victim contact scheme with a victim liaison officer but they don‘t really have any power to change anything. for me, you are com pletely to change anything. for me, you are completely missing what i am saying. what changed after thejohn worboys case, because his victims, his alleged victims, were not told of his imminent release, so measures we re his imminent release, so measures were brought in to address that. yes, and that was a serious, serious case. something i have been in discussions with before. but to see a summary of what i have been given, and there is more information there than what i have been allowed to see, actually. it is a tick box, it does not do the service victims expect to receive. it‘s about him and not understanding the reasons why. especially when, in my summary, it says i did not do a victim personal statement. i didn‘t because i feel physically sick. and personal statement. i didn‘t because ifeel physically sick. and it personal statement. i didn‘t because i feel physically sick. and it sums up i feel physically sick. and it sums u p exa ctly i feel physically sick. and it sums up exactly how they look at it. in this case, in the case of stephen sorton, you are objecting him to being released at all, or is it specifically the conditions? for me life means life. i know many people talk about rehabilitation. my daughters don‘t want anything more to do with this because it takes them back and they have their own lives to get on with and i am very proud of that. but the fact is, it seems to be that you give them courses, education, prisons get everything, but children victims get nothing. it is a case of breadcrumbs. i want a professional landscape for victims organisations. you were victims commissioner between 2012 and 2019 so how is that not in place with your horrific personal experience? that's why i kind of park things and listen and work with them. i work in prisons, i go out to visit people and it sums up go out to visit people and it sums up that it is actually, calm down, dear. it is basically, we are doing it. i say, dear. it is basically, we are doing it. isay, i might not dear. it is basically, we are doing it. i say, i might not be the victims commissioner but i am tired of seeing victims broken and not understanding the impact that we have to rebuild our lives on charities, and people who volunteer, and yet nothing seems to seep into our legal system. it is a societal problem as well. there might be a number of people watching who agree with you that life should mean life. which suggests you don‘t think anyone can be rehabilitated. some of these men were teenagers at the time, 16, 17. do you think they can‘t be rehabilitated ? no, let‘s strip this right back. rehabilitation is a huge word that people use. the whole point is, my daughters were 12, 15 and 18. my daughter, at 18, she doesn‘t like me discussing it but she was treated as an adult. it seems to be that we must organise and get them back to be rehabilitated but they killed garry, unnecessarily kicked and punched and laughed at everything and my daughters have had no support whatsoever. i‘m sorry, people seem to do that with burglary. we are so desensitised. society has become so desensitised. society has become so desensitised. i‘ve been on interviews where people say it was only a bike stolen, only this. it is a huge impact and if we don‘t know at the top when you get a life sentence to somebody, this law is laughable. it‘s a bit like manslaughter. my lord due to set it is man‘s laughter and it feels like that —— law tutor. it isn‘t a mechanism that gives them a true legal voice to make sure it is on a balanced playing field. that is what iam doing balanced playing field. that is what i am doing today. make you very much for coming on our programme. we appreciate it. thank you. let me read you more comments about our interview with heidi, the 24—year—old woman getting married in 18 weeks. she has down syndrome and is part of the campaign writing to the health secretary matt hancock to amend the abortion act of 1967 saying it is 50 years out of date. and abortions after 2a weeks for unborn babies with fatal abnormalities like down syndrome should be banned. —— with foetal abnormalities. this text is said what an amazing young woman —— this person texting instead. lovely lad made me cry watching. change the law. a human being is a human being, i100% support their campaign. sarah says my son has down syndrome and is six and we were offered amniocentesis which i declined as it was my baby and he was being born no matter what the outcome. the doctor at the hospital who gave us the news post birth advised that if we wanted him adopted, we could find —— he could find information for us. my son is in mainstream school, safe, happy and making lots of friends and he is thriving. this person who doesn‘t leave their name, me and my wife had an appointment with a midwife or a pregnancy check up and when offered a test to see if our unborn daughter would possibly have down syndrome, it was swiftly followed by the comments, it gives you the freedom to terminate. i never forgot this and thought it was disgusting for a medical professional to make such a suggestion. thank you. if you want to get in touch, you are welcome. send us an e—mail. if you made a decision to terminate a pregnancy after 2a weeks, i am asking if you could get in touch with us this morning. clearly, an unbelievably difficult decision and we would like to hear from you difficult decision and we would like to hearfrom you because difficult decision and we would like to hear from you because your voice is important in this particular conversation. still to come before 11am... she‘s one of britain‘s most famous actresses — and we‘re set to see her soon as the queen in the crown — but first imelda staunton‘s here in the studio to talk about her new tv drama which starts tonight. and why wildlife conservation isn‘t just about saving the popular animals like pandas and tigers — but also lesser—known besasts like these snub—nosed monkeys. ——beasts. some maternity trusts are failing to give vital training to staff in how to deal with emergencies, such as when a baby becomes really unwell. that‘s according to research by the charity baby lifeline, which has criticised the lack of mandatory training for staff — and has found huge inconsistencies in amounts spent on training by trusts, varying from £1,000 up to £350,000 a year. this report follows the recent maternity scandals at shrewsbury and telford hospitals and east kent hospitals trust — which are both being investigated for "avoidable" baby deaths. there are now calls for the government to reinstate the maternity safety training fund — which was introduced in 2016 but only lasted for a year. let‘s talk now to sara ledger — from ba by lifeline and james titcombe — whose sonjoshua died aged just nine days old in 2008. we can also speak to laura middleton who lost her daughter charlotte lastjuly. thank you all for coming on the programme, thank you very much. james, i wonder how you reacted to the news that baby deaths are being investigated at other trusts? which, perhaps suggests lessons aren‘t being learned after the death of your little boy all those years ago. it's your little boy all those years ago. it‘s really disappointing. joshua died back in 2008. we had a long time and a big focus on maternity safety, get a similar themes keep repeating. this needs to be a wake—up call. how many more scandals do we need to see before we really get to grips with this problem? you we re get to grips with this problem? you were saying that and have been saying that almost every year since you lost your little boy. and it's really frustrating. there have been big changes to push for improvement to maternity safety. there is a new system for investigating baby deaths now that‘s really positive. yet, some of the really simple things that we could be doing, we seem not to be doing and it is really frustrating. i was thinking back to the law can buy investigation published in 2015, looking back, there are many recommendations of that report that we simply haven‘t acted on. give our audience a couple. absolutely, around deaths at a unit level, that data isn‘t available. recommendations to do with sharing reports that royal colleges do locally with the regulator, really simple things. of course, a big theme of what happened at morecambe bay was dysfunctional relationships between midwives and doctors who go to work every day to doctors who go to work every day to do the very best they can. nobody goes to work to cause harm, get if we are not supporting those teams of doctors and midwives to work together, not preparing them for when things go wrong, we are setting the system up to fail and we are still failing in those areas. laura, your baby daughter died lastjuly after a series of errors. was her death preventable? it was, yes it was. i was iwas in i was in hospital. i had gestation of diabetes. she was my third baby, i had diabetes in each of my pregnancies. i had amazing care with my first two. and then, with charlotte, i also developed poly had ineos, a dangerous amount, too much fluid. they said if you go into early labour and the baby not being in the right position, cord prolapse or something. i was booked in for a c—section but i was only 36 weeks, so c—section but i was only 36 weeks, so they wanted to give me steroids for charlotte's lungs to develop. a side effect of that is that it pushes up your blood sugar too high, but they counteract that with an insulin drip, a sliding scale. i was on that and it wasn't bringing my sugars down. this went on overnight. they didn't monitor... they should have done a blood ketone is test, because they found ketones in my urine. that wasn't done because the midwife didn't know how to do it and she asked for help from a colleague, who couldn't help her because she need needed to get to a handover. we have since found out this is a really simple test that takes seconds. that wasn't done and would have picked up some serious issues. and it wasn't until 4am before they monitored the baby. after 20 minutes, the criteria of the doors redmond machine wasn't met. there was something wrong. we had a locum that was in charge, the consultant wasn't there, they were on call. the midwife knew something was romcom escalated to the locum, he came to see me several times but kept saying everything is fine. the baby isn't moving because you have moved position or making excuses. after two hours of no movement were recorded no movement, it even says it in the notes, they decided to ta ke it in the notes, they decided to take me off the monitor for a while. and they put me onto the older style phillips, which they needed more interpretation to read that. and it wasn't until 9:20am that a new consultant that had come on to shift came in, looked at the ctg and just said this baby is cadre, we got to get her out now. wow. i was rushed foran get her out now. wow. i was rushed for an emergency cesarean. “— get her out now. wow. i was rushed for an emergency cesarean. —— this babies bracket cardiac. my obstetrician was there holding my hand when i woke up and they had to let me know that she had died. oh, my god. we have since found out that it wasjust a my god. we have since found out that it was just a string of errors that led to charlotte's death. cani can i ask what effect the death of a baby in those circumstances has on you. walking at the hospital without your baby... i made sure we left early so we wouldn't see anyone. the drive home from the hospitaljust in silence. and, luckily, me and my husband like to talk about charlotte a lot. yeah. and my other two children talk about her a lot. but it's devastated us. we will never be the same and we will have to live with this until we die. we'll never get over it. and i don't think time does heal. i think you just get used to what happens. eventually. north—west and the nhs foundation trust say we offer our sincere apologies to the parents and family baby charlotte middleton. while our trust upholds patient safety is our highest priority, we fully admit on this occasion there were failings in several human factor errors that contributed to charlotte‘s death and we have prevented a number of changes to prevent happening again. some people will be shocked by your research, which suggests mandatory training... that training isn‘t mandatory! how is that possible? we looked at the recommendations made by reports looking into the unfortunate tragedies that happen in maternity, death and brain injuries. we looked at the recommendations by those reports that were around training and thought, 0k, we will audit that and see what people are providing and see where the inconsistencies lie and see what we can do as a charity to help and we found almost no consistency at all across any of the things we looked at. we looked at attendance, topics that were provided, we looked at assessments, a lot of trusts don't assessments, a lot of trusts don't assess all of their training, 10% do, but they are not of the training they provide. really basic stuff. it is. you had things like heart disease the leading cause of death for mothers and has been for two years. and less than one third of trusts are providing training in that area. you think what is stopping them, what are the barriers? the biggest barrier was funding and staffing. on that point, let me read this statement from the department of health. we can never underestimate the agony of losing a baby and we are determined to make the nhs the safest place in the world to give birth. we are committed to transforming maternity services as part of the nhs‘s long term plan backed by an extra £33.9 billion a year by 2023 — 34. we are considering options for maternity training as part of wider efforts to improve maternity safety, is that enough? —— 2023—2024. he frowned. improve maternity safety, is that enough? -- 2023-2024. he frowned. we have been saying this for a long time and it is crazy. the amount we have asked for, you could train every midwife and doctor for about 12 million a year. that is a tiny fraction and it is frustrating we are still here asking for this funding when a single case of brain damage to a baby, the compensation could be £20 million. this doesn‘t make any sense to us, does it? it's a shame because when we audited the training, there was funding available. you got to assume it has gone downhill since we audited as well. we're just saying put a bit of investment into the prevention of these tragedies, rather than just letting them go by. we are hearing the same things and we had been hearing it for two decades, the same things are coming out, we need to invest the solution. thank you very much for coming on the programme. thank you. we‘re going to talk now to one of the most recognisable actresses in britain — imelda staunton. before we do, let‘s take a look at some of the stuff she‘s done. my father is gone, my husband is gone, i see no reason not to do what i want. but that doesn't mean there is no reason, merely that you cannot see it. i think lady merton is right. we‘ll have it out once and for all, but now i must go to her majesty. we need to talk to mrs vera drake. what's all this about? i know why you‘re here. why are we here? because of what i do. what is it that you do, mrs drake? this is a lie. it‘s not a lie. i saw him, i fought him! detention, mr potter! so, according to you, cedric diggory dropped dead of his own accord? cedric diggory's death was a tragic accident. it was murder, voldemort killed him, you must know that! enough! dance music plays. # shame on you # if you can‘t dance, too # i said, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame # shame on you # if you can‘t dance, too.# imelda stauton has also been named as the next actress to play the queen in last ever series of the crown, but first she‘s in a new itv drama starting tonight, flesh and blood. she‘s out, but i can take it for her. 0h, great, thanks. thank you. 0h! thank you, bye. cheers. but although we‘d been neighbours for so long, we didn‘t live in each other‘s pockets. no, i kept myself to myself, always have done. just who i am. imelda staunton is with us now. that clip on its own doesn‘t make a massive amount of sense to me, tell us massive amount of sense to me, tell us about flesh and blood. it's on four consecutive nights, which is quite good. yes. francesca and s lives next door to me and we have known each other for 40 years and she is a widow and a man comes into her life, mr stephen ray and her family and myself is just hoping that he is ok and we want to look out for her and my character lives on her own and wants to make sure that she knows what‘s going on and make sure that everything is ok. that clip shows her a little bit interfering, i think. that clip shows her a little bit interfering, ithink. it‘s interesting, because it is not a whodunnit, who has done what and to whom. it's a mystery, a thriller? yes. over the four nights, you are thinking she‘s... oh, she‘s all right, oh, no, he‘s... thinking she‘s... oh, she‘s all right, oh, no, he's... lots of twists. everyone guessing for four nights. it was filmed in eastbourne. it looks glorious. last summer. these grey february nights, it looks so beautiful, it looks like it is the riviera for goodness‘ sake! we we re the riviera for goodness‘ sake! we were in eastbourne and it was hot every day. female writer, fema director, female producer, lots of strong female characters, older female characters, there are some sex scenes, i am told involving those older characters, you know, that has caused a bit of a stir. but, shock horror, older people have sex, who knew! when you get scripts through, what is it that makes you chooseit? through, what is it that makes you choose it? what made you choose that? with this, four parter and i thought oh k, i started reading it and go oh, yeah, i know... oh, no, that‘s weird. it is a page turner and every script has different ingredients are different things that make you want to do it. and also, i knew francesca and stephen ray. i thought goodness me. it is a combination of the first thing is the script. and we had a female director, fema producer and female writer. what difference does that make? —— female producer. writer. what difference does that make? -- female producer. you want to support it and you wanted to be good and it is, that helps. and it was a no—brainer. good and it is, that helps. and it was a no-brainer. right, ok. we had julie walters on the programme last week who was 70 at the weekend. she was talking about the fact that she had a bowel cancer diagnosis and she was through treatment and it changed her perspective on acting. and she would never do a film or a schedule that involved 4:30am until 6pm at night six days a week, do you feel the same about those kind of schedules? no. i suppose that's a very different story. yeah. for me, ido very different story. yeah. for me, i do theatre and television and television is a shorter period of time. if something has affected your life, that a different situation. i wa nt life, that a different situation. i want a balance in my life and i will be doing theatre over the summer, that takes up more of your life, one can‘t complain being in sunny eastbourne for a few weeks. absolutely. it is a different thing. downton for six years? not me. my husband,jim. downton for six years? not me. my husband, jim. in the terms of balance with your personal life, how do you work that out?” balance with your personal life, how do you work that out? i don't think we are do you work that out? i don't think we a re really do you work that out? i don't think we are really different to anyone else trying to work out our life. you get up at zero am. we look for that whatever we do. the older you get, the more you think, steady on, i don‘t want to do that, because i‘ve got to get the tulips in fort next spring! as you do! what is the secret to your long and successful marriage? humour. both quite funny and respect. ithink marriage? humour. both quite funny and respect. i think we have that at all times and we understand each other‘s work. it‘s funny, people say why do actors marry other people actors? in our case, we do understand the difficulties and we also are good at going, "oh, don‘t be ridiculous, just get on with it." that has helped enormously. you say you don‘t regard yourself as a celebrity, you appear very grounded and normal, how do you manage to keep out of that sort of showbiz world ? keep out of that sort of showbiz world? people like... i'mjust an actor... it's ajob. ijust do my job. the word celebrity grates on me because there are people who are celebrities who don‘t have a job. they are just celebrities and that‘s what they do. it‘s not what i do and it‘s not what a lot of actors do. and maybe social media has a lot to do with that, which i don‘t do. so, ijust want do with that, which i don‘t do. so, i just want to go to work and go home and that‘s all, really. i don‘t wa nt home and that‘s all, really. i don‘t want the stuff around it. and i‘m very fortu nate want the stuff around it. and i‘m very fortunate to be here today because i am publicising the show tonight, that‘s great and we are very grateful for that and then i go home and i‘ve got to put a wash in. and that‘s it. maybe because i‘ve been doing it for a long time, i can ta ke been doing it for a long time, i can take a bit more of a view on it all. your daughter is an actor, actress. your daughter is an actor, actress. you don‘t mind that word? your daughter is an actor, actress. you don't mind that word? actor or actress. clearly, she must have been influenced by you and your husband to go into that. it didn't bother us at all. you were happy either way as long as she‘s happy? at all. you were happy either way as long as she's happy? absolutely. she did drama school for three years and that‘s hard graft. and she is working and she knows the pitfalls. because she‘s been with us all her life and because she‘s visited us at the theatre or on set, she has known how to behave and how to treat people and you treat people with great respect, whatever theirjob. and that‘s important. as well as hopefully having the talent but you‘ve also got to have the ability to recognise where you fit in the jigsaw of a piece of work, it‘s not all about you. yeah. an article was resurrected about you saying please don‘t eat crisps in the theatre but actually it‘s three years old, is it? yeah. you are going back to the theatre this summer, do people still eat stuff that distracts you or get out their phones? it's funny because its like imelda staunton saying this... i said that three years ago. what it has made me think about that is that its people wherever not thinking of other people. as long as i‘m doing what i want to do, doesn‘t matter what anyone else in the room has to go through. maybe that‘s why i think it is a bit thoughtless, that‘s all. i think it is a bit thoughtless, that's all. would you ever stop a production if you were in the middle of it if you had a phone going off? it's of it if you had a phone going off? it‘s interesting, phones don‘t, touch wood, that used to happen about ten years ago when we didn‘t really know what we were doing with phones. "i thought it was off" and all that. people just put it on silent tonight. across the next four nights, do you like that rather than we can‘t binge it all tonight? nights, do you like that rather than we can't binge it all tonight?” think that is great. we are getting so used to wanting everything now, i‘ve got to watch everything tonight and then i‘m going to eat all of that meal now. but you‘ve just got to wait for something just for a day andi to wait for something just for a day and i think that might be quite tantalising and hopefully it will make people talk about it during the day and looking forward to it in the evening. i think it will keep people watching because although i know it, i have seen them all, i thought i would just watch one tonight and i know what happens, why am i watching it? it really does keep people watching. it is not a police drama not a big family upset but it has both. it has a bit of everything and sunshine and blue sea, what‘s not to like. we look forward to it, thank you. flesh and blood, tonight on itv. this... is a gnu goat. this is the secretary bird of the east african savannahs. and this is a gila monster. they could be the future icons of conservation, according to a study. scientists say these little—known animals are key to raising money for protecting vulnerable ecosystems. the likes of tigers and elephants, which appeal to the masses, are often selected for fundraising campaigns. but scientists say that means funds aren‘t being directed at saving many other species that need our help. helen briggs. what is your official title? science correspondent. i thought it was but i wanted to confirm that. we need to look at these other creatures which arejust as look at these other creatures which are just as interesting and charismatic? that is right, we are in this age of extinction, animals are going extinct at an ever faster rate, we have these conservation celebrities, the superstars, the lions, the tigers, the elephants but we also need new animals and they have compiled this list of 500 species, not just mammals have compiled this list of 500 species, notjust mammals but are reptiles and birds as well and the crucial thing is if we start to protect these animals it‘s notjust the animals themselves but they live in these very vulnerable ecosystems and by protecting them, you will be protecting lots of other things as well. are these that we are showing all under threat? not all of them are directly under threat. snub—nosed monkeys, that is? are directly under threat. snub-nosed monkeys, that is? very endangered, that cute monkey, some of them are at the edge of extinction, some are being pushed towards extinction and some very weird and wonderful things. yeah. we need to look out for different creatures in terms of fundraising because it will help their conservation. we have run out of time, i‘m so sorry, thank you for coming on the programme. helen briggs, our science correspondent. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. thank you for your company today. have a good day. good morning, we haven‘t seen much of it so far this winter but for some, this morning, snow was quite disruptive. we had quite a bit of snow across northern england and scotla nd of snow across northern england and scotland this morning, that was the scene in county durham a short while ago. clearing away from northern england and southern scotland but still heavy snow across the higher ground of northern scotland expected. rain on lower levels. while the rain continues to clear away to the south—east of england, we will see brighter skies developing across wales, the midlands, northern england later on one or two showers moving in and temperatures real contrast, quite chilly across northern parts but further south, it is pretty mild with temperatures in double figures. tonight, the snow will continue across scotland and the risk of ice where we have had that snow and temperatures fall away overnight tonight across scotland and northern england and on tuesday, a mixture of sunny spells and showers with wintry showers which means there could be hailed, some sleet and possibly some snow you‘re watching bbc newsroom live. it‘s 11am and these are the main stories this morning: italian authorities try to contain the biggest outbreak of coronavirus in europe after four people die and 150 are infected. the home office dismisses reports that the home secretary priti patel mistreated her staff following allegations of bullying. a severe flood warning as more heavy rain falls in shrewsbury — in scotland there‘s travel disruption because of snow. a hearing begins into whether to send wikilea ks founder julian assange to the united states to face prosecution for one of the world‘s biggest data breaches a sandstorm from the sahara disrupts travel plans for thousands of tourists in the canary islands. us president donald trump addresses a big public rally

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