Transcripts For BLOOMBERG Charlie Rose 20140529

From our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Russian president Vladimir Putin expressed support saturday saying he would respect any choice made by the ukrainian people. Joining me now from washington theictoria nuland, assistant secretary of state for european and eurasian affairs. Welcome. Tell me. There was the selection in ukraine. There was the election in ukraine. It was a spectacular day for the country to go out in force and to say to their government and to the world that they that ishe future democratic, unified, rooted in europe. In terms of the u. S. Russia i think timep, will tell. The president of russia said that you will risk that the whoevernd work with elected. It will be good for russian relations with the rest of the world. Tell. Ill he snatched away crimea. That seems not even in question anymore and there seems to some extent to be a retreat. His popularity has shot up through the roof. He has one on has terms, has he not . I dont think its wise for anyone to get in the head of president putin the given what has happened just in the last four months. Let me take issue with one thing you said there with regards to crimea. States nor most of the civilized world has recognized what russia did in crimea. We still respected. The tm territorial integrity of ukraine we still respect the territorial integrity. That will continue. With regard to where krugman goes from here, as i said, i think we just dont know yet. It will depend very much on whether he decides to reach out to president elect poroshenko and whether hes interested in the escalating. We have now seen Russian Troops on the border surrounding ukraine begin to move back to their bases. Thats a good ring. We have also seen naked tenure destabilization in Eastern Ukraine just another last couple of days thats very worrying. The kind of destabilization . Do you expect it to continue . Saw a separatist attack on the airport in don asked donetsk. They attempted to take the airport using various sophisticated weaponry. We have also seen an effort that the ukrainians were able to interdict to shift hightech weaponry from crimea to the east and of course on election day, we saw considerable intimidation of election workers, smashing , and thel boxes cyberattacks on the Central Election Commission of the kind that generally would require outside support. Worrying, but its very much a mixed picture. A new leader, petro poroshenko, known as the chocolate king. Hes known as an oligarch to use the shorthand of the region. He also gained enormous respect with a lot of voters because of his support for the my. Demonstrations. Plagued since has 1991 is the complete failure of its Political Class on all sides and a level of corruption that is remarkable. Why is this guy any different . You are absolutely right that corruption has been a cancer on went outnd the people for a number of reasons. First and foremost because he promised to take them to europe and then reneged. They felt ripped off by their leadership. Dave like the money in the state was going to official pockets rather than being used for their benefit. They are now demanding of hesidentelect poroshenko ran on a platform of a clean government. He will have to deliver as part tothe imf package support ukraine, the ukrainians have already begun passing the kind tolegislative base they need clean up corruption, things like transparency, public requirements. President elect poroshenko will not only have to talk the talk but walk the walk. Hes talking about things like e governance. We will see. Like you said, he is somebody who has a long career not only in business but also in politics in ukraine. Very early in this struggle, he picked sides and he stood with the people. He actually interposed himself physically out certain key moments to call for nonviolence. He stood on a front loader at one point when people were shooting at each other and he said, stop. This is not the way we behave. He has put his own physical security on the line for a new ukraine. The orangeing revolution in 2004, we saw her and thenaction followed by grandiose disappointment and widespread corruption again. Why will this be any different . Be an accounting of all the western money that come from the imf and elsewhere before more money goes into ukraine, more support . There certainly will be an accounting. One thing the imf has done as a result of the experience including its negative experience in 2004 is its doling out money and relatively small tranches attached to real reform. President elect poroshenko is going to have to demonstrate that hes ready to change the way that ukraine has done business not only for the imf but for all the people who went out to vote for him. That will be the number one thing that people of all generations and ukraine will expect, particularly the Younger Generation that led this effort. They are sick of the country being ripped off. I think we would agree that Vladimir Putin is the main culprit in all of this, particularly in the disk table is a in of Eastern Ukraine, the snatching of crimea. Look back at this prolonged episode, what lessons can the west learn about itself about the way that we played this . The eu, for example, bluffing when it was trying to draw ukraine towards the eu. I dont think the eu was bluffing. I think the offer of the association, the set free travel, no Tariff Barriers was a very generous one. I think what we all when we wered talking about it was the ability of the Russian Federation to exact its own economic retribution on ukraine. The we really needed was imf economic reform package and moving inckage conjunction with association in the fall so that ukrainian economy would have had a safety net. What happened was at the end of the day, the russians were able to say, we will crash your economy if you join europe and there was not sufficient western alternatives for ukraine. To. Is certainly one lesson really, we dont need economically necessarily to force a country like ukraine to choose. It ought to be able to have a strong relationship with europe and also maintain a lot of its historic trade to russia. The foot can do this right, ukraine could become a throughput for better, cheaper ukraine,ween europe, and everyone could conceivably benefit. We needed to have a conversation in a more rigorous way. Part of your job as a aslomat is to see the world Vladimir Putin would. He sees this as a generationlong million nation enlargement when promised otherwise. You know the litany of complaints directed at the west. Does he not have a point in any of his litany of resentments . President putin and many in his circle and of his generation certainly have dissuaded themselves that they have a narrative of grievance with the transit when a community and with the west. David, i have to tell you that i lived and worked through that the somatic time from 1991 when the soviet union fell apart and russia was born and i have to that everyone worked tirelessly to try to offer russia throughout those years an opportunity to knit itself into our community. Russia founding act where we set the nato nations would sit with russia together to talk about all of our major security concerns. That was an opportunity for russia to work alija lee with nato. Instead, they used it as a place to argue and a place to complain rather than try to build together. I think there were many missed opportunities on russias side to work collaboratively with us as we work with each other. I just regret that. I think we might have had a very different russia today is a resident who manned other leaders had taken advantage of them of the opportunities we had on the table. Vladimir putin could be president for another decade. Is there anything conceivably that will turn him back in another direction . Or do you think there is much ,ore xenophobia and services highly conservative moralism that hes been creating as a state ideology will be relaxed with a media that is tightened up, censorship exerted, is there any conceivable notion in your mind that Vladimir Putin will go the other direction and liberalized afore he leaves office . Otherwise, are we not destined for a very bad road for another decade . If president putin continues down the road that hes on which is to continue to isolate his own country and create barriers particularly for younger people to interact with the rest of the world and to continue on the current economic path that hes on, to raise Tariff Barriers through things like customs rather than doing what the rest of us are doing, trying to have free trade agreements and lower them, if he does not diversify his economy, he will not be able to continue to produce for the russian people. His compact with them in the first term was, you leave politics to me and i will put a chicken in every pot, so to speak. To ikea and to go travel to greece on vacations, but right now, what he has produced in his first term is an economy that is stagnant, on the verge of recession, and a lot of temporary patriotic fervor but for thet of opportunity russian people. Look at what happened when he started talking about closing down twitter. Even his Prime Minister said it was crazy in the next generation of russians dont want to be cut off. If we stay unified and continue ,o offer a way to work with us if he will live by the International Rules of the road, but at the same time being firm in terms of cost of sanctions if he continues to be predatory avis his neighbors thats part of the complaint. We talk about international law, the sanctity of borders, he does not believe us. Why should he . Incidents that he raises are very different from circumstances where you have had security years of u. S. Council resolutions, years and years of diplomacy to try and settle disputes as opposed to what he did in crimea which was the side with three weeks notice that it was russias and he would take it. Again, there is a dialogue to be had. We want to start with russia and theire, resetting relationship in the wake of these elections. It really is a question of whether putin is ready for that or not. , thank you nuland very much thank you, david. We continue our conversation with a distinguished panel. From washington, fiona hill, senior fellow and director of the center on the u. S. And europe at the brookings institution. Here in new york, Stephen Kotkin , director of russian studies at Princeton University and thomas graham, managing director at Kissinger Associates focusing on russian and eurasian of tears. Stephen, you were just listening to Victoria Nuland give her analysis of the ukrainian election. What did you think . Washington is having trouble figuring out to what extent ukraine is our issue or someone elses. Certainly, the division of labor one of theas difficulties that she commented on in the infamous phone conversation that was tapped by the russians. You can conclude that this is really a ukrainian issue more than anything else. If you look at what is at stake having au. S. And just policy here that is coherent compared to whats at stake for not clear that the balances on the side of doing more. On the other hand, for the people of the region, the civilian population, everything is at stake. Statesthink the united lost its policy with ukraine . The coordination with europe over what to do. The europeans dont seem inclined towards further expansion. Lets be honest. They have had trouble swallowing those theyve admitted. There are some questions about in made it met sense since they violated most of the structure is required for admission. That thehave the fact common currency did not turn out the way they had anticipated. Easterntite for further expansion was minimal. Why they were talking to ukraine, why they were promising some sort of partnership, association, the words were fake vague. Why they were going through that ritual at the time is unclear. The coordination of that work by the eu was not 100 . Getting was instead close to the opposition and ukraine, the selfdeclared opposition to yannick kovacic yanukovich. Europe looked like it was doing something to did not fully believe in. They were getting very close to and it was not clear. It did not represent the interest of the protesters at least from their point of view. We have a winner, petro poroshenko, the chocolate thing. Hes now the president of ukraine. Proprotesters and he showed courage, but hes also an oligarch in the place where corruption is issue number 1, 2, and three as well as democracy. His is completely good news . The good news is there is someone that has now been elect that can represent at least a part of ukraine before the International Community in negotiations with the russians. I think we need to look at the more objectively. 60 t, we had a turnout of according to the official figures, what was billed as a historical election. Thats not a real spectacular turnout under the circumstances except in the United States. Even when we have the store collections, we get close to 60 but in europe and elsewhere, you would have look for something more in the 70s particularly for an election that is supposed to have this import for the future of ukraine. The turnout in the eastern provinces, not including those areas was around 50 . In the west it was in the 70s. What this demonstrate is that it continues to be a sick african split. We are not talking about don etsk. Code7 of less than 60 turnout but the situation on the ground is somewhat different but this is reflective of a Longstanding Division between east and west. It is on political orientation and you add to that not only the oligarchs but the Paramilitary Forces now. We have a very difficult situation in ukraine. A form of has now legitimacy but his being able to put together policy to bring together the barriers and the segments of the ukrainian policy and then produced a National Consensus that is now needed in particular to undertake those very difficult economic reforms, im going to have to wait and see. Its much too early to declare this crisis overran much too brussels,washington, or the government in kiev to declare victory. Is it possible for us to act effectively in that place when we have so many interests all over the world, domestic problems . This is a very difficult thing to do. We have what is very much an attention deficit. Were focused on ukraine now because it is in the news and spectacular developments have occurred. We have not paid a great deal of attention, as stephen mentioned, over the past 2025 years. We really dont have the type of understanding we need of ukraine as a society, as a political problem, to be effective on the ground. We do not have the expertise that we need in the government, or i would argue in the broader Expert Community in the United States. Why not . A topaine has never been priority. When a country as a top priority the way the soviet union was, we put the resources and intellectual firepower into thinking through those issues. The matter how difficult was do you think it has become second rate . We have fewer resources. Its not at the top of the agenda for the administration or for u. S. Foreignpolicy for probably 10, 15 years, or more. There is a brief time of extreme interest right after the collapse of the soviet union when we had this idea that russia was going to move in a democratic freemarket and we had a major role to play in that. Once it became clear, sort of near the end of the 1990s, that it was not russias nearterm lose a you saw people lot of interest in russia. Theiona hill, part of grievance of Vladimir Putin, a long list of grievances, is his reading of exactly that, the last generation of u. S. Russian relations. The way that he has been discussing an almost from the moment he went to office and never more ferociously from now of slides, instances where the u. S. Overplayed its hands, treated russia with the back of its hand, whether it had to do with nato expansion, economic advice. Putinas become a vladimir that is deeply resentful of the United States and your right about it very ugly in your new very you write about it eloquently in your new book. Is this going to go on and on . For the long this haul. This is a long game we will be playing for quite some time. The neglectd about in many respects about russia in , franklyd states elsewhere in europe, it is something that has really rankled putin. These comments that russia is a secondrate Regional Power in the very idea that the best diverted to been other things and the rest of us are still looking at russia,. Etting very long in the tooth in many respects, we are that generation that has been working on this for a long time and its very hard to see the next generation. The interest has not been there in getting them positions. For putin, that is the thing he said up to reverse. When he came into the presidency back in 19992000, he made a statement that he was going to put the russians stead back where it belonged and back in europe is a great power. He did not want russia to become a second fiddle, a second poland. He made that comment many times did i do think he did mean offense to the polish in many regards. They were on a trajectory to become just another player. When putin set out to put them back and restore the economy, he had in mind making russia one of the big players. He keeps talking about russia being one of the big three sovereign powers, with the United States and china. Being one of those great, unique civilized nations. Really, what hes done with the annexation of crimea is demand that we Pay Attention and make it clear that we will be paying attention if he has his way. Ukraine in many respects is the main game but its also a sideshow in the fact that russia will be backed not just as a regional player but one that demands a global attention and this is really what putin is setting out to do at this venture. If youre sitting in moldova, estonia, latvia, are you a lot more nervous now than you were six months ago . Last time everybody was very nervous was in 2008 around the war with georgia where putin intended to get everyones attention there. If you recall back to august 2008, there was a lot of concern that tomorrow it might be thailand and a flurry of activity. It seemed that loot and took a step back. Not just because he was not pushed any further on nato enlargement to georgia and the ukraine stepped back and became occupied in its own problems and they did not need to take any action there. Now weve seen a ratcheting back up of the heat. Theres been concern expressed in the Baltic States about the russian population there. That was a big feature back in center stage again. Certainly, if you are sitting in moldova and you are about to sign one of these agreements with europe formally at the end of june, we are going to see revisiting all of these crises again. They will sign this Association Agreement and you are worried about will happen to your territorial integrity. They have played with the breakaway republics of moldova threatening the prospects of becoming fully independent or part of russia. Is this a cover for how badly things are going in the russian economy . The people who have more to fear live in russia. The problem of putin is a russian problem. Unfortunately, there has been developments in russia that archer men display dutch or mental to russian interests, state interests, middleclass, to russian people who work hard and have entrepreneurial talent. Those developments include further stated station of the economy, deepening of the favoritism of who can obtain property or loans. Brain drain because of pressure on the university system, tightening over the internet whereas before they were content to control the state television and almost all of the television is stayed. The internet space was much livelier and freer certainly compared to china and there has been a tightening in that direction as you know and have written about. Thee are all ominous for people of russia. The people of moldova have their own problems. The moldovan population does not live in moldova because the place is a basket case of corruption under more than a generation of poor elite. Maybe things have gotten better recently in moldova under the current leadership, but that is not felt by the population of moldovans who live and work in italy, portugal, or elsewhere. Lets talk about ukraine. Is hard toconomy measure because there were no unionrices in the soviet and Exchange Rate fluctuation with the dollar and the ukrainian currency. Inexact. Ukrainian Economy Today is definitely smaller than it was in 1991 when they broke away from the soviet union. Poland was three times larger. The ukrainian economy is under 200 billion in the russian economy is more than 2 trillion. You can talk about the lack of diversification in the terrific. The russian economy has expanded be about 11 times the size of the Ukraine Economy when the russian population is only three times the size of the ukrainian population. Something awful has happened in ukraine. The political establishment has done zero structural economic reform. Do you have any confidence in poroshenko . Hes clearly wellintentioned. Talking about ukraine. Hes clearly a ukrainian patriot. He stands for ukrainian sovereignty. He is going after the armed vigilantes and gangs in the east who sees airports or other buildings. He needs a Political Program. You cannot just retake the airport, half of which is destroyed when you retake it. You have to build. There was an imf program was also conditional in 2008 which tymoshenko negotiated. That was about 16 billion. There was a 16 billion imf and poroshenko was part of the negotiating team. Both of those were canceled because the Ukrainian Government failed to live up to its pledges of the conditions they had except did. Theres no guarantee that yet imfher multibillion conditional program will be met by the kind of difficult choices and that is poroshenkos challenge. He needs a political instrument in which to implement any kind of Political Program he might decide on. The problem you have is the lack of political structure, real political parties, instruments you can use to effect any kind of policy in ukraine. And great to articulate annunciated policy, but how will you bring together the people to actually implemented . Thats been one of the challenges at places like ukraine and elsewhere have had over the last 20 or 25 years. Influence theons flow of events in a good way . Were they effective . A somewhat different view than the conventional wisdom on putin. I do believe his aims from the very beginning have been limited. History, heat his is a calculated risk taker. The goal for putin and the goal for russia is to still have a ukraine that is in some way not prowestern but can still be brought into some kind of economic and political entity dominated by moscow. Part of ukraine. You want all of ukraine for his political ambitions. Ne really caused putin to take a step back, to the escalade over the past few weeks has been the threat of widespread violence in Eastern Ukraine. Hes positioned himself as a great russian patriot, someone prepared to send in the troops russians andnic russian speakers. Hes smart enough to realize this was not going to be crimea all over again. He would be sending Russian Forces into what would have been hostile territory. They have not operated well in hostile territory in recent years. I think that with the possibility of sanctions played a role in the deescalation weve seen at this point. As i said, this crisis is far from over. I agree with what tom has said here. When we look forward, we have to finding apart of solution for ukrainian. If you look at the ukrainian economy, as stephen has already told us what poor shape it is in , the impetus for reform and restructuring can only come not just from the European Union, the United States, the imf and the world aint, but by factoring in russia particularly in Eastern Ukraine. The heavy industrial manufacturing sectors of ukraine that were formerly dominated by the defense sectors were very much tied into russia directly. It was not just a question of gassubsidization of deliveries but tying those economies together and a lot of manufacturing and economic processes. Maybe all of the ukrainian money manufactured goes to russia but they willy unlikely look at these oldstyle enterprises. When you look down the line, you are seeing between the range of 5 billion to 10 billion depending on how you factored this incoming indirectly from russia. Mr. Parrish and go mr. Poroshenkos chocolate. Its highly unlikely consumers elsewhere in europe will be buying poroshenkos chocolate. We will cap to think about we will have to think about this. One of his biggest complaints about the European Union Association Agreement was ukraine being taken out of economic orbit. He kept signaling for many months that he wanted to sit down at the table and have a discussion about how this would linesk out between his for a Eurasian Union and an economic block to the east. These discussions about ukraine also moving and diverting some of its trade partners to europe. In. To factor them is taking some hard calculations here. Considerableave influence. Hes trying to now calculate how much he can work with poroshenko. Hes looking at the future to see how that will lay out. , fiona hill, Steven Kotkin thomas graham, thank you for the discussion. We continue with new yorker cartoonist roz chast. She has a new graphic memoir, cant we talk about something more pleasant . Im pleased to have a rat this table and always to have her at the new yorker. Roz, you grew up in brooklyn but i dont think it was the brooklyn of modern hipsters. Its not the best i have 20 years ago. You say you hate brooklyn. I hated the brooklyn in which i grew up. That may have a lot to do with where i grew up and how i grew up. It was very, very different. Not the hipster brooklyn. It was not even brooklyn heights. Deepnk of it as the rocklin, sixstory apartment houses, bobbies with plastic flowers but always smelled funny and people having very weird fights were occasionally a Television Set would get thrown out the window. Not really very encouraging place to grow up. Collects when you were a kid, how are you spending your time . Burrowing into comic books and old new yorkers . I never wanted to go outside. That was the worst, when a friend said, do you want to go outside . I really dont. Lets stay in. Against, draw, make up fake cookbooks, look at books. They would just look at me like one a go outside . Want to go outside . He taught french and spanish at lafayette high school. The studentse of was Louis Gossett junior. He was very proud. He carried his picture around. We lived to see him in a play and we went backstage. He remembered my father. What your parents like . They are the foundation of this. Their maturation, growing older, and youre having to cope with that is the book. What were they like when they were young . Theynever knew them when were young and vital. I only got to know them when they were sort of old and cranky, or crankier. They were very devoted to one another. They were very much children of a certain time. They were both born in 1912 and graduated college and to the depression. Their parents report. Poor. E i think that formed them a lot. They never really took anything for granted. They were not my typical parents of the 1950s or 1960s with america is great. Lets go out and buy a new car every couple of years, stoves, placemats. Towas more like, we need hang on very tightly do what we have because it could all disappear in a second. At what point did you get the idea you could make a living, and artistic life by becoming a cartoonist . This is not exactly a growing world in the United States. Ages ago, there used to be a lot of places where you could sell cartoons. Conceivably if you had talent, you can sort of make a living and that shrank a long time ago. The new yorker and a couple other places are it. How did you get started . Who did you love to read . Who were your influences . Bei never thought i would able to make a living as a cartoonist. I thought if i were really lucky that i would be able to sometimes occasionally get some of my work published may be in the Village Voice. I never thought i would wind up working for new yorker. Did it seem to square when you were younger . What i was doing was so oddball, and like 1978, i did not see anything that was much like it. I thought my work had more in common with the stuff i was seeing in the Village Voice or national lampoon, the funny pages. It was oddball stuff, stuff that was not really conventional and yet it was not underground. It was just something else. I remember very distinctly that gott cartoon accepted. Tell us about that. Cartoon called little things. When i first came to the new yorker, i called them up and i found out when the dropoff date bring up aartoonist portfolio. I put everything i had, around 60 cartoons. I had no idea if it was too few or too many. They said they were going to buy little things, which surprised me. That was probably the most personal and weirdest of the whole lot. It was the kind of doodles that you do where you just make little shapes and you kind of hack it. Whatever. Just those that you do for yourself. It surprised me that they took that one. Your cast of characters that in one way or another is an extension of either you or family members, you were not there yet. How did that happen . Its finding your voice. I dont think why it would be different for cartoonist. Of submitting weekly to the new yorker is such an amazing thing. Means you will have a lot of rejection along the way. Occasionally, people say you have the greatest job in the world. You turn in one cartoon a week. On fantasy island. Theres about 40 of us on the sword of staff and we each turn , 6, 7, we call a batch 10, 12 cartoons every week. Then there is an art meeting, i guess. Then the editor narrows it down. Manye can only take so because an issue only has 15 or 20 cartoons. Exactly. Its a very big dark side. The good part of it is that you are drying every week or almost every week. I think just that process, if you love to do it, eventually what you want to write about, what you want to draw about, it emerges. This book is something completely its ambitious as a novel in a way. It is way beyond the boundaries of anything that you had ever done. What was your ambition for this book . What did you want for it . Really, i wanted to remember the erie and 10 remember my parents. I feel like one of the main things, the main reasons why i write and i draw is im so afraid if i dont that it will all be forgotten, you know . It does feel that way sometimes. If i dont draw or write it down life. Everything. Time just kind of goes on like that. Ruthlessly. This and i drew this to remember my parents, really. For what reason . They did not live seemingly big lives. Just the opposite, they led aggressively small lives. They are not veterans of great wars, survivors of great tragedies of the 20th century. What about them, other than the fact that they were your parents, needed memorializing . Why did you go about writing a book about their aging and death . It was such an intense fromience to go through the beginning of realizing that i had to get more actively involved in taking care of them and not knowing about how to do that or how it would play out, what was required of me, or anything really about it nothing. Theyere quite old by were quite old by the time they aged and a serious way. They were in their late 80s. They probably held together for my benefit, to be nice to me. Not want to be a burden. Well sortn point, of had to realize that angers are changing and it was not always going to stay like that. It did not seem funny at all at the time. There were little bits of funny things in between likely oven mitt story. I had started to go out to brooklyn again to visit my parents. Just noticing the disorder, the grime. When you are away for something for a really long time and you come back to it, you can see it more clearly. Replacet they ever their oven mitts . Theyve had this since i was in junior high and it cost two dollars 99. I looked at it and it was not only like a bird than disgusting but it was also patched. Who patches oven mitts . It was patched with fabric from a skirt that i had made myself in seventh grade and Home Economics class. That sent me over the edge. That was sort of funny. Up. Me home and i drew it the last 20 years has been a trend in the direction of graphic novels. Is that something that interests you . Did it influence the way you went about doing this book . That theseery happy. Ooks have been so popular i feel like in some ways they opened doors. This is an interesting way to tell a story and can be done. The way i wanted to tell this, i really did not know whether it would hang together. Its different. It does have some standalone pieces in it. Its not handle after panel. It has some writing and photographs. It has some drawings, a couple of my mothers poems. She wrote poetry. I had to figure out a way to put it together so that there was this narrative, that it was not just like a scrap book or a Hodgepodge Lodge or something. Im sure people ask about this all the time, but where do you get your ideas for cartoons . You have to be sending in 12, 15 of them. Its pretty tough. Sometimes, i have no idea where they come from. They come out of the year. Sometimes its something that somebody said thats funny. That. Other ideas from there is one cartoon that i can tell you exactly where it aimed from. Had teenagers,r you know that there is nothing more disgusting to them than the site of an adult human body. If you really want to put the ,herry on top of that sundae all you have to do is move that body. Especially parental. Just do a funky little dance. Watch me now. Then they throw up all over the world. They are barfing. They are just done. My daughter was doing her homework listening to some music on the bill box and i wanted to see whether she was paying attention. She was about 16. I came in and did this funky dance and she said, mom. Stop. You are hurting me. [laughter] it. Ked her if i could use you ask permission . Do you always . If its at close, i do. You work sidebyside with a twoof cartoonists, it people in a bar, two penguins in a bar, the tombstone genre and greatve a particularly one. I love that genre, as you know. In, turned on, dropped out, dropped in, worked out, saved up, dropped dead. The story of life. Roz, thanks very much. Thank you. This is taking stock. Im pimm fox. Todays theme is secrets. A wellknown secret has finally been revealed. Apple is agreeing to buy beats electronics. Price tag, 3 billion. We have the details. Some of the nsas secrets were revealed by edward snowden. The contractors story has now been made into a comic book. Silicon valley unlocking the secrets to making the perfect toy for children. We discuss all these focu