Changing culture landscape. Joining me now, renzo piano, and adam weinberg. This is a remarkable story. It is about a city. The driving passion of people to make sure that the whitney would live on and reflect our time in the future as well. It is a great honor to have them back at this table. Welcome. It is complete after some dozen years of planning and building. How do you characterize this moment for you . Adam the whitney has been trying to expand for 30 years. We tried to expand next were building uptown. It was four directors ago. The collection when we first moved in with 2000 works. Today it is 22,000 works. The idea of being able to see not just what we have, but to offer possibilities and aspirational spaces for artists to do things like we have never been able to do before. Charlie and youre going back to your roots. Adam it feels very comfortable. The greatest complement we have received in the last weeks has been it feels like the whitney. Even though it is a different kind of space. Charlie hasnt there been some effort to design a new Whitney Building for a while . Adam for decades. Michael graves many years ago made an attempt. Renzo himself did a plan for uptown. In the end we both agreed there wasnt the kind of space you need to for contemporary art. Charlie leonard is a great friend of mine. Im am sure a friend of yours. He calls you up and says what . Renzo i was on the site of the library that day. Charlie which you were designing. Renzo yes. I was inside, and he called me and said why dont you come for a coffee . He was lying. [laughter] of course i will come for a coffee. Charlie tell me the truth. Did you have any notion that what he really wanted to talk to you about was designing a new building . Renzo i didnt know it all. I didnt know. Im like children. [indiscernible] so he went up. I came in the room. It was full of people. It was the design committee. And great people. Adam was there. Adam leonard. Bob hirst. Charlie you are sitting there with the board. It is not just leonard. Renzo the entire board. I started to think that wasnt an accident. [laughter] we started to talk. Thats all. Charlie thats not all. Adam there was a bit of behind the scenes. We were interviewing a number of architects. Leonard said we should ask one or two questions to every architect as a constant. We asked every architect what is your Favorite Museum building in the world . Every architect named one of renzos buildings. Everybody loves his buildings. Why arent we talking to renzo . Charlie which do they love . Adam the byler museum, the manila museum. It was those that came up over and over again. Charlie you said im not just here, im not prepared to compete. I dont do that. If you want me to do it, offer me the job and i will do it. Renzo i hope you understand, at a certain age you dont want to fall in love with jobs like that. You dont want to fall in love and then it goes away with somebody else. Its too much. Charlie you dont want to fall in love with the idea of building this museum because you have to tell them what it is and have them say we will decide on someone else. Renzo its just that passion. You cannot do this profession without passion. This was incredible. Im european, italian. I grew up with the idea that freedom comes from this country. You know. We grow with this great idea great roots, great culture. At the same time you need. You need freedom. America was and is about that attitude. Making a house for american art, an incredible challenge. Bringing together my sense of things, and this core freedom that is an absolute necessity. Charlie you hope to incorporate social life, urbanity, invention, construction, technology, poetry, and light. That is hugely ambitious. [laughter] renzo this is true. Architecture is about those things coming together. Social life, urbanity, poetry, it is about fighting against gravity and try to create something that is playing with the light. Then we have invention. That building downtown, 28,000 tons. Charlie made of steel. Renzo and everything else. You need invention for that. It has to last for a thousand, thousand years. Charlie it is in a unique place. How did you find it . Adam the city had reserved it. They wanted a cultural anchor for the high line. Originally they were planning to build something there, and when they didnt we approached the city about a possible site. Kate levin felt to affairs and said that this is a site that would be available to us. We were thrilled because it is hard to find horizontal property in manhattan. There is not much space. I was thinking about what he said. We love the wild character of the neighborhood. The roughness of it. Feral, a wildness to it. Even though it is a refined building, there is the roughness of the floors, the concrete, a sense of it is not just all about finesse, elegance. It is about something rougher and wilder. Charlie how would you describe the look of the outside . Renzo a bit wild. Charlie you would . Renzo you make a building that is the house of american art. It is about freedom. This sense of freedom. When you make a building, it must express that idea. It must express the brave attitude to the city. This building is designed to talk to the city on one side, on the east, [indiscernible] taking your time. On the other side it talks to the rest of the world, on the west it talks to the traffic on the highway. Then the west. You can look and see across america. You have a dialogue with the rest of the world. This is part of the idea. Charlie did it have to have anything to do with the building on 76 . Renzo many things coming from that building. Many things. The flexibility of the space. I can go on forever. When you open the door you find yourself in the gallery. Thats another important thing. [indiscernible] it pays to be in connection with the city because he got madison avenue. But we have a space there. We built the making the building above ground. This is what the building does. It comes up. This is what you have to do when you make a public building. You have to be accessible, easy to reach. This was impossible because they didnt find the space. I can go on forever. It was not charlie werent you talking about extending the building . Adam several times. It wasnt enough room. Charlie you struggle with the idea. Adam ideally you would like to keep the museum together on one side. When you talk of the wildness of the building it is of the critics have struggled with. Most museums have a front brand image, the front of the net. This is a 360 degree building. You see it from all sides. I think a lot of critics have a hard time because they dont know what is the image. It is the multiplicity, the wildness, the sense that it was designed from the inside out. Charlie i mention there was a moment about this, the new location for the museum confirmed a definitive shift in the citys social geography. Part of the city in its social context has moved from the upper east side. Adam absolutely. The high line. Charlie amazing what it is done for the city. Adam five Million People year on the high line. Until the whitney there was a wonderful walkway without an anchor on either end. Now with a culture shed on the north end, and the development of the westside, it was so empty in many ways in terms of public traffic. Charlie in two short generations, the whitney has gone from being part stern but carrying homeless shelter to its chic and eager tourist destination. Adam i think that charlie you are happy with tourists. Adam the more the merrier. The whitney has always championed the artists of our time. Mrs. Whitney is an artist. Shes one of the only founders of a major museum who was also an artist. Charlie did she try to do this . Was it her dream turned down by other museums . Adam she offered to give her collection to the metropolitan museum. They said we have enoughh of that not very interesting stuff in the basement. It was out of a curious refusal that the whitney was born. She was interested in the art as she was in creating some museum. Charlie so she said i will create my own museum. Adam it was out of a need, not just the desire to show off what she had. Charlie you said you were forced to consider the symbolic value that it will have. Part of your driving mission in your own head was to consider the symbolic matter. Renzo yes, of course. Charlie because it is a place for american artists . Renzo it is hard to say but it is a sense of freedom. You dont design a building by watching. You build a building by trying to tell the truth. The truth is that it will house forever a great collection of art, the expression of freedom. That is something that for me makes a lot of sense. What you get is something that architecturally, it is something that you immediately appreciate. Something that goes like a river, like a mountain, like cities. It is something that stays there forever. Sometimes it takes a long time. This thing of the tourists, i know the story. I design with my friends everybody came up saying sacrilegious. This is not for art, it is for tourists. This is a typical reaction. But the truth is that art is for everybody. Art is seeking a life in the eyes of everybody. You have to make a place for everybody. Charlie that art museums are one of the powerful magnets for tourists to visit cities. Adam absolutely. It is about will changing lives. Not just the lives of the artists, but exposing to people to the art of this moment. People look back at history and they can except they love Edward Hopper now and jasper johns now but how about the artists of this generation . Mark bradfords, the rachel harrisons. When we are so close to in time it is hard to grapple. Part of our job is to challenge as much as it is to just celebrate. To test ideas, and put things out there. Charlie lets talk about the relationship between a museum and the city. We mention the high line. You said it was important to let the city and the street encroach. Renzo i think that is the reason why i called that place not a lobby well im italian. It is where everything is found. You are in the city. This is the place where the experience matters. This is where fear goes away. People meet people. They get together. It is about not being intimidating. It is about being accessible. This is the beginning. Then, from there, you go up. You take your shoes off metaphorically of course. You enter a different world. The ground floor is public space. Adam and we have a free gallery in the public space. Make whatever art in that level completely open to the public. It is a right, not a privilege. Renzo [indiscernible] charlie like what . Adam education he we have an indoor, outdoor blackbox space a theater where you can be inside, looking out more inside looking outside. We have four levels of galleries. The art be seen from above below. Performance can be done out there. You can have sculpture installation, projections. And the black box, the idea is the building is material for the artists, not just a site for the artwork. Renzo called it the testing platform. Renzo we have been working a in lot with artists. One thing not to forget, the building was loved by artists. I know why. It was simple, unpretentious not competing. It was a flexible space. Artists love that. And we always thought with artists [indiscernible] charlie you have spoken to this idea before which is dont create architecture that competes with the art. Renzo architecture is art. It is not just function. There is function. Construction, it is about society. But it is art. A different kind of art. It is the art of making place for other art. When you make a concert at home you dont make a concert. You make a chamber for sound. That is the same thing we do. It is not making more modest. It is Even Stronger because it becomes adam that is one of the reasons we wanted to work with renzo because he put the art first. It was not a good addition. The competition. It was about supporting it, and it makes the architecture and the art greater. Charlie im intrigued by this idea, a building like this cannot be indifferent to the city. Renzo and it cannot be indifferent to people. Again, you know why, as an architect if you are in the right moment at the right place you dont change the world. You celebrate the change of the world. The world has a shift. A long time ago the world was making a big shift between place for elite and something else. In berlin when the wall went down. You dont change the world. Some of the else changes the world. So this building is materializing a shift. Because change is not easy to digest, it doesnt please everybody. But you dont do this different because you want to be different. You do different because it is different. Charlie what did you mean when you said this building is a poetic of movement . Renzo i always thought that buildings has three dimension, four dimensions. Another floor is movement and people. That is the reason why we designed the building the movement of people going around, enjoying it, watching down. You see movement. Charlie that put you on the map. Renzo of course. We never got a new job for 10 years for that but movement as part of architecture. This building, we cannot find that sort of place. On the ground floor you see three big elevators. Then you see the stairs. Everything is about moving. Charlie was adam helpful, or did he get in your way . [laughter] renzo it was great. Adam we have been accomplices. Exactly. Charlie accomplices in a conspiracy to create something great. You would meet once a week . Adam we met every time he was in new york. Every eight weeks. For example, talking about the movement, only one wanted the elevators front and center, we came up with the idea of commissioning the artist richard to turn each elevator into an installation so that not only was the movement the movement, which we loved, and renzo responded to this, and he designed the environment. Renzo i love the idea that you dont go to art. You push a button and then are comes to you. [laughter] charlie what new elements are you most excited about . Adam we have our fifth for fifth floor special exhibition gallery. It is enormous, the largest in the city of new york. We can make exhibitions to the size that we want instead of just saying you have to fit in. We can do a bigger show. A smaller show. Charlie can you do sculpture . Adam we can do sculpture. The outdoor spaces are extraordinary. What i love is that when you were in the building you could have been in rome, in london, in the new building you always know that you are in new york. You get the views of the city, the river. The whitney has always been new yorks museum. It is a new yorkbased museum. Charlie more so than moma . Adam i think so because we have always had an International Presence but it was based in greenwich village, and the connection to the artist whether it was hopper or calder or sloan. This was the place to champion their work, not just the picassos. Charlie moma wa. Collectors. Adam mrs. Whitney was an artist. Renzo this was for artists. This idea that the building comes back on is a great thing. Charlie you brought this building in, ontime, on budget. Adam i have an extraordinary board, and board leadership, who said we cannot make a building that we cant afford to build, and we cant afford to run, and we built a sizable endowment. Charlie 450 million . Adam we raised 250 million for endowment so that we would have the funds. Many museums do not have the money to run. We are pleased. We finished our campaign. We are still always raising money. You never stop when you are building. The work really begins. Charlie i was there the first night. It seems everybody was happy about this. Do you get a sense that there was artists there, members of the board were there, you were there, a sense of we created something we dreamed of doing . And it is that we wanted to do. Renzo this is exactly what you hope. This is what you want to build a building that is loved by people. Buildings need love. They need love like people. I also feel that it would be loved. Adam we wanted people would feel great. Renzo said im a humanist. I love the idea that it is based on human scale. That it is based on human scale. You feel good when you walk on those wooden floors and the sound, the light, the quality of the space. Renzo it is about unpreten tiousness. The super finish. Made out of recycled pine. We went around, we found three factories. We cut the wood. You could see the trees. This is simple. If they want to name something, they can. It doesnt matter. There are so many names. It is not something untouchable. It is not something perfect. This idea that is open and flexible. It does not intimidate. Charlie well talk a little bit about the art. Show me the first image. The building image. There it is. Looking from the west to the east. Tell me what im seeing here. Renzo what you see is the west side. The big window is overlooking the hudson river. That floor is the fifth floor. Then you have the other gallery. This other side of the building is blind for the simple reason you do not need a light. You could see from the top lights are coming inside. When you look at this building buildings take time to be part of a city. When you make a new building, it is always new. I think this building expressed the complexity. Charlie lets look at another image. Renzo this is looking from east. Youre looking down. Beautiful. It is an awe inspiring element. And then above, you see the building. You need to enjoy life. Enjoy flying above the city. Adam renzo kept noticing the fire escape. Those stairs are public. People can actually walk over the building. Theyre not just utilitarian. Renzo they really enjoy that. Charlie the idea came from looking at fire escapes . [laughter] renzo maybe not. In architecture, and everything , like in music it is somewhere , in between. Memory and oblivion. You remember things. You dont really know exactly. There is a kind of illusion. Charlie lets see the next image of the design. There it is. Renzo it shows the overlapping of the different functions. Of course it is very intense. The ground floor is public. We have galleries. You go up. You could see the auditorium overlooking the hudson. The full floor of the gallery. Charlie how do you think it is different today than back in that time . Renzo i dont know. You should send ask somebody else that question. Charlie a significant change in you . Renzo age. Charlie have you changed your attitude about work . Have you changed how you look renzo i still feel like a bad boy. I just know how to do things and build. It is about learning. It is easy to say. Architects under 50 the first 70 you learn. This one is a special one. Charlie next slide. Hoist elevators and express staircases. Is that the fifth floor . Adam this is the fifth floor gallery looking south. This is a floor devoted to the art of the 80s. You see the poster by moffitt. It is about aids. Charlie last slide. I want everyone to go to this museum. That is the top gallery. We catch the light from the north. You have to catch the north light. Otherwise it is too aggressive. Charlie this is a magnificent place. Adams tenacity has made it happen and the brilliance of renzo piano responsible for something everyone is talking about. There is a book on the Whitney Museum of art. Renzo by my daughter and the foundation. Charlie details and photographs and a sense of what it means to create. Its connection to the city and art. And to itself. All of that. Back in a moment. Stay with us. Al hunt sir Peter Westmacott place a special role. He was counsel for Political Affairs in washington during the first clinton administration. Among his areas of expertise is iran. He was there before the 1979 revolution. He has worked closely with the Obama Administration and nuclear deal negotiations. There are some schisms over defense spending and britains role in europe. Mr. Ambassador, a pleasure to have you here. Lets start with the special relationship, helped by the goal of a good ambassador. Does this hinge lightly the on the relationship between the principles, in this case president obama and Prime Minister cameron. Sir peter i think the relationship is important. The president was clear that David Cameron was one of his closest and most appreciated friends and advisers and partners. He talked about an indispensable relationship with the United Kingdom. That relationship is strong. It has more to it than that. Al some say that the Good Relationship is not the one that reagan and thatcher had. Sire westmacott i think it is close. I have been witness to number of conversations between them. Seems to me it is as good as it gets. I dont have any complaints. Al you spent a lot of time on capitol hill, dont you . Sire westmacott i do. Al tell me how the polarization affects you. Sir peter part of it is to explain the United Kingdom is important. Part of it is because there are issues which are of direct importance by u. K. Interests which are being considered by congress. We want to see the u. S. Partnership comes to fruition. We are parties to the iran negotiations, which were completed at framework level a couple of weeks ago. It includes the United Kingdom as well as the u. S. It is important. Al how different was washington today versus washington then . Sir westmacott if theres one thing that has changed Washington Life come it feels it is the influence of very large sums of money. It was always there, but it feels more now. Al is anyone issue that has dominated most of the time . Sir westmacott last year i spent most my time on i dont think there is anyone issue now that dominates. One day it might be spending on the latest manifestation on the ukraine crisis. It might be about to yemen. There might be some atrocity in syria or iraq. There is one constant policy i have focused on throat my time here, the iran nuclear negotiation. Al you do have a lot of expertise. You were ambassador of turkey. Some critics say that french were part of the p 5 1. The Obama Administration is getting too much in their eagerness . Sir westmacott the british view is that there are six altogether. I think the french of course have been there. They are part of negotiations. The framework, we agreed together. We all had something to offer. It is through the centrifuges. Ours is in richmond. Is enrichment. That is an area where there is a lot of specialization. We go back a long way. We used to be big players in iran. Bp began their oil industry. I like to think we bring a certain expertise. The framework that was outlined if not signed, was product of all of us worked effectively. I wouldnt say any is more or less key. We are all committed to ensuring that iran does not get nuclear weapons. Al what are the aspects of a final deal like and when . What are the big hurdles . Sir westmacott quite a lot of technical negotiations. We have had three rounds. There is still more work to be done. On several points of concern to us. We need to ensure that proper arrangements in place. So we can be sure iran sticks to the terms of the deal. That the breakouts are going to be a hereto. Basic trust. Al will it be done by june 30 . Sir peter that is our aim. There is no reason why it shouldnt be. We all know what the remaining issues are. Sanction suspensions. Al assuming that there is a deal, you know iran. You know the iranians. But you think will be the iranian behavior then . Some say there is more economics. That they will enjoy the prosperity. Others say they will have more resources to do bad things. How do you see it likely to on unfold . Sir westmacott it is hard to look into a crystal ball on this. Theres plenty of bad behavior by iran. It worries all of us who are involved in the negotiation. If we succeed in getting this negotiation in place, i think it is possible that other aspects might be addressed. Think back 10 years or so. There was a time when i ran was our natural partner because that is a sunni Jihadist Organization that hates shia muslims, for reasons of opportunity. Us and the americans found that there were ieds made in iran that were being used to kill our soldiers. But i think it is possible that if we reach a deal, iran will see it is in its own interest to become part of the international community. We will have to see how it goes. Let us say where that relationship takes us. My own expense is you dont find a lot of young people going off to jihad or to blow up an airplane. Most want to get a green card and come to america and make millions of dollars. They are an indo european people are naturally western leaning. That doesnt go for everybody. Let us give the iranians a chance. Lets take things one state at a time. Al you mentioned war against the islamic state. Do you think things are not going as the brits and the americans expected . Sir westmacott i think we are horrified by what might happen of losing a World Heritage site. There a lot of bad things, you are right. We have been clear that we want to see the Iraqi Government be more inclusive. More of a government for all iraqis. We have helped with training so they can push back against the atrocities committed. That is what we do. It is part of our Usled Coalition against isil. That is what we are trying to do. Al they say they dont seem to want to fight themselves . Sir westmacott there are questions about that. Some of this is linked to sectarianism or traditions. The perception amend many sunnis and so on. I think it is disappointing, but we have to continue to work to try to ensure that the Iraqi Armed Forces have the capability and they close of nature they need to have if they will be representing the whole of their country. They have begun to push back. It is in our interest they will do so. We have provided military training and a lot of equipment. We have to make sure they succeed. Al let me ask you a little bit about the special relationship. The Washington Post wrote it doesnt look quite as special. There are complaints about the british cutting back on the laws that the u. K. May not be as big of a player as they would have wished. Does that worry you . Sir westmacott look at what the president has said or the defense secretary. Who says he believes the special relationship is a cornerstone. There are two people whose words speak for themselves. Al but you are cutting back on defense spending. Sir westmacott we are honoring the commitment to defense spending. We are the secondlargest defense spender in the lines after the u. S. The Largest Armed forces in europe and we are present in many countries. Look at what the u. K. Has provided iraq in terms of precision strikes and tankers supplied. Refueling aircraft. Heavy machine guns for the kurds. Providing counter ied equipment. We are doing a lot. I have read the newspapers. I know there is a bit of uncertainty. We now have a government in power. With a very clear sense of its own role. I think we are doing a great deal. For the future years, we are doing 2 of gdp spending right now. Which is in line with nato commitments. We will have to see what happens. Sorry, just to add. We are spending an awful lot of money on new equipment. 150 billion pounds. New aircraft carriers and airplanes, submarines. I think where going to be in a good place. It is smaller, our numbers. If you look at what we are doing with those capabilities, it is still a remarkable effective fighting force. Al another concern is the Prime Minister has promised there will be a referendum. That bothers a lot of people. They say one of the telling parts of the relationship is britains ability to influence europeans. If the english decide to pull out, and would that affect the u. S. U. K. Relationship . Sir westmacott i hope that is not what we are going to do. My Prime Minister has been clear. Theyre not pleased with the status quo. The way the european institutions work. We need to see a number of reforms of improvements. More transparency. More accountability. And countries like the United Kingdom certain guarantees for , the ways we could continue to go about our business without discrimination. There are issues about immigration. There are a number of things. As we go around, were clear there are many other Member States that agree with us. Europe needs to be reformed. What David Cameron is saying look, we need these reforms. I want to make europe work better. I will renegotiate the terms between that United Kingdom and its partners in the eu. When i have done that, i will have a Firm Intention of keeping britain at the heart of an improved in union. That is the plan. That referendum will be held sometime between now and the end of 2017. Al final question on any schisms. The u. S. Wasnt pleased when britain joined the Chinese Investment bank. Have you been able to discuss some of the differences . Sir westmacott we discussed everything. I think there are some people who think the policy decision we took was not right. There are some people who absolutely understood why we did it. If you look at the context of this, congress had not agreed to the imf reform. The International Financial institutions are adapted to the new realities and to the fact there is a big financing gap. Everyone agrees upon this. We decided to engage with the chinese because we believe by being there at the ground floor, we were well placed in which that Investment Bank was going to be structured. Governance issues. There are many different governments that have joined. We were there early on. It is going to be a lot of governments influencing the way the bank is going to operate. I think by making that decision by being there, we have a much better chance than it had stood aside. Al one of the many areas of strong agreement is trade. Both Obama Administration and the u. K. Administration would like to see a transpacific pack. The impediment is the house of representatives. You mentioned you have been talking to members up there. Are you having any progress . Sir westmacott i find people who agree that one of the best ways of consolidating the recovery is to have more and freer trade. Also important is that we could set the Global Standards for Services Rather than have to play catchup following standard set by other parts of the world. I think there are plenty of people here who understand that more free trade is good. You have common standards. You dont have an unnecessary need and so on. There is a lot that we can do. The scope for improving trade in services and respect for regulations. Some of this is difficult to. It will take time. Some of it is politically complex. Al you are basically optimistic washington will do it . Sir westmacott i know it has been complicated in the house. Some of my friends there say it will be tough. I cross my fingers. I hope it will be something that the administration has given consideration. It is not just about that. That is not to say we have got a deal done. We have to do the technical parts. The u. S. And the European Commission has got a job. Im optimistic a comprehensive free trade deal will happen by the end of this administration. We will do all we can. Al mr. Ambassador, thank you. And thank you for joining us. See you next time. Brilliant ideas, powered by hyundai motors. Narrator the contemporary art world is vibrant and booming as never before. Its a 21st century phenomenon, a Global Industry in its own right. Brilliant ideas looks at the heart of this, artists with a unique power to thrill, provoke, shock, push boundaries, ask new questions, and see the world afresh. Artists like cornelia parker