would see providing planes directly as an escalatory measure? >> i can understand the case. i'll tell you, don, to me there is a little logic disconnect here. we've already provided thousands of stingers, anti-aircraft weapons, javelins, anti-tank weapons which have resulted in the deaths of thousands of russian soldiers, and the loss of a lot of equipment. i'm hearing estimates of up to 30% of the equipment the russians brought into ukraine is gone, destroyed or captured. so these fighters, and my thinking has changed on this. going from poland to ukraine, i don't find -- and of course, the claim is that they won't be effective. if that is the case, why are we so worried about this being escalatory? i have to sympathize with the position the administration is in here. they're trying to walk a very