Transcripts For CNNW Chris 20240705

To this that is not constructive in our country. Joe biden looked all of us in the eye in 2020 and said, elect me and ill bring us together. And then he ran far left and abandoned most of the country philosophically. So, how could he be the uniter in a second term . A second term all hell do is keep doing what hes doing, which is dividing the country even more than we were divided in 2020. So, the way i would go about it is very direct and very simple, that there is no bad opinion. You want to express your opinion in this country, express it. I want to hear it. And then everybody gets around the table and resolves our issues one at a time. The same way we used to do at Dinner Parties before the last eight or ten years. Wasnt like there werent political differences discussed. Its just people didnt start throwing the cutlery. It was a little more civilized. And it wasnt as if our democracy was at stake. See, in the end, if you make everything a crisis, then it will be. And i heard the president today, joe biden earlier today, talking about how, you know, he was concerned about the democracy if donald trump got elected again. And then i heard donald trump yelling and screaming about how badly hes been treated. These two guys need to stop worrying so much about themselves and start worrying about you. And my approach to being president would be the same way it was when i was governor of new jersey. I got 51 of the latino voters to vote republican. Why . Because i went and campaigned in those places. I let them get to know me, and i listened to them. And thats what you need a president to do, not just go to places where were comfortable. Go to the places where were uncomfortable. And lets admit theres some places as republicans were less comfortable than we are in other places and go there. One quick thing. I went to irvington, Gentlemen Of The Jury new jersey. I told my staff i want to do a town hall in irvington. They said, sir, you realize that those people are not for you in irvington. I said, i want to go there. And i went to a church in irvington. I turned to the pastor, how many people are here . There were over 500 people here. They introduced me on the stage, and they booed me. I said, i already won. There are people in this church than voted for me two years ago. This is a victory. You came to listen. Lets get to listening to each other again. We hear each other. We listen to each other. I went to irvington and i listened, and i went all across new jersey to places who had never voted republican before. People said, he cares, hes listening, he respects my opinion. You know i didnt agree with him many times. And when i didnt, id tell them right to their face i didnt agree with them. Theyre not looking people with different opinions ant always looking looking for you to agree with them. They want to be heard. They want to be taken seriously. And what joe biden and donald trump are doing to this country is dividing us further because its for their advantage. The more divided we are and thats the only choice we have, theyre going to be the nominees and one of them is going to win. We need to go differently, folks. We need to go differently. And i am willing to fight as hard as anybody. You watch me over the last 13 years, my state was hit by sandy, i fought with republicans and democrats to make sure my state was taken care of and rebuilt. And it has been. Im not willing to concede anything on principle. But i am willing to work with anyone of good will who wants to make this country better. And can you say the same thing about donald trump . Can you say the same thing about joe biden . If you cant, you should think twice. Think twice about all the imitators too. One thing youll be able to find out about me over the next year and a half, im not imitating anybody. This is an original, everybody. This is it, okay . And youre going to see who i am. Youre going to get to know me. And if you vote for me, great. And if you dont, at least youll know who youre not voting for and whats in my heart. And thats what im going to show you and give you. Im going to fight for you to do that, have the right to do that. And im going to make sure that w we remember what we all have in common. Were americans, and this is the greatest country the world has ever seen. As we approach 250 years, lets stop the arguing and fighting over the small things and lets Work Together to win the fights on the big things that will make our children smarter, more prosperous, healthier, and safer. We do those things, this country has no rival, hasnt had one before and wont have one for the next hundred years. Governor Chris Christie, thank you very much for joining us. Thank our audience for their questions. The coverage continues with jake tapper and erin burnett. Thank you. Republican president ial candidate Chris Christie, the former governor of new jersey take his 2024 message to voters in our live cnn town hall. The former governor making headlines on multiple fronts, but particularly with his rather blistering rebuke of donald trump on the eve of the former president s arraignment on federal criminal charges. Jake, it was absolutely that. Chris christie describing the expresident as angry, vengeful, someone who doesnt give a damn about the american people. Loser, loser, loser he said. He took on his party or blaming the doj and not in trump himself. The war in ukraine, abortion, and obviously, jake, so much more in that 90 minute town hall. Lets break it down with the group i have here, dana bash starting with you. What strikes you the most . Chris christie got into this race saying that the only way to beat the front runner is not to tiptoe around him but to go through him, to try to hit him head on, saying that from the experience hes had him knowing him for 22 years, the experience of running against him and not faring well in 2016 and then really helping him a lot during his presidency Helping Trump a lot. Helping trump a lot. And then as erin said, tonight you heard the terms that he knew that would get under Donald Trumps skin. Loser, loser, loser, child, Vanity Run Amuck. Those kinds of things were clearly deliberate in order to try to egg donald trump on, not just tear him down, which is his primary goal, but to try to get under his skin. Yeah. John, is there a political appetite for any of this . If he can somehow bend the arch of the Republican Party to where it used to be even then people may say are you conservative enough. Is that a primary message. When a voter brought it up, anderson played the race, he got in the race because at 2 30 in the morning on election night, donald trump said the election was stolen. Nobody knew. Joe biden couldnt claim victory then, nor could donald trump. Nobody could. Donald trump said the election was stolen. He said, i beg you to think about this, to Republican Voters. Six in ten republicans still think the republican is stolen. Said, thats a child. I beg you to think about that. Why do republicans still like trump . So, hes trying to shake them, if you will. That was one thing. The other thing, what is your calling card in this race . What makes you different than Everybody Else. I governed in a blue state. He talked about getting in a room and compromising, lets get into a room together, common sense solutions. Can you tell a Primary Electorate that wants to shake things up and stir things up . Donald trump and ron desantis. Dont talk about compromise, dont talk about lets split the difference and get a good deal. To get that in todays Republican Party, hes going to have to change a lot of minds about what they think the race is about. And abby phillip, even these are republican primary and caucus voters. Chris christie is a gun guy. Chris christie is antiabortion. He didnt lean into either of those issues at all. If you were either a pro gun or pro life voter, he didnt give you a reason to vote for you. He certainly didnt say anything that would make you think that he wasnt on your side, but he wasnt very aggressive on that. It is an interesting point that on those, lets call them culture war issues, he didnt really lean in that much. But i did think it was notable that he was coming at trump from the right. He said, trump didnt bring down the deficit. Trump didnt bring an Immigration Bill to the floor. I think he understands that you do have to go through trump, but you cant do it from the left. You cant even really do it from the center. You have to be somewhere to his right. And i did see him trying to make those arguments to Republican Voters that this guy is just not the conservative that you think he is, perhaps. Whether that will work as an argument, i think it has not worked historically in a republican primary because i think theres a lot of personality at stake when it comes to trump. The other thing about christie that you cannot ignore, ive seen christie in New Hampshire in front of voters, he is very natural and comfortable in that setting. And he understands how to navigate these questions and get to the heart of the question. I think you saw someone just like nikki haley in some ways whos very practiced, very rehearsed. This is not their first rodeo. And when you asked the question, who is going to be willing on a debate stage to do that not just in front of voters but to Donald Trumps face, i think you can see christie being able to do that. Jamie, one of the things thats interesting also in terms of the criticisms of president trump, which were numerous and frequent, was he basically called him incompetent on the issue of immigration. Donald trump didnt offer one piece of legislation that passed on immigration period. Now hes blaming joe biden, calling him incompetent i think would bother donald trump more than calling him vain. I dont think calling him vain. Loser. Loser, loser, loser. Loser three times. I think he likes being called vain. Loser, loser, loser came out early and repeatedly. Look, Chris Christie is a very talented communicator. And this is very much, i think, the Chris Christie we knew and saw before he supported donald trump. He has said he has nothing to lose here, and the question, i think, is going to be, to danas point, hes out there to drive donald trump nuts, plain and simple. Will it resonate with Republican Voters . And to your point w, when he talked about policy, being a governor in a blue state, i did this, i accomplished that, will that resonate with Republican Voters . Elie, he said he thought it was possible that the trial of donald trump in florida could be going on as soon as this winter because of the Rocket Docket down there. You can request a speedy trial. Do you agree with that . Its possible but i think its unlikely. We have experience. I think thats awful bli optimistic to think that you get a case with this much political dimension to it, with this much complexity tried five months from now. Really the defendant is the one who controls when this case goes to trial. The defendant is the one with the Constitutional Rights and the need to prepare himself. And i think what we saw tonight is Chris Christie trying to prosecute the case against donald trump. Last week when Chris Christie declared his candidacy and about 24 hours later, the Trump Indictment news dropped, i thought, bad news for Chris Christie. I think its a good break because he sees on this indictment to state the case against donald trump. The literal case, United States versus donald trump on the documents, but also the broader case of, im the only one who sees this thing clearly. You see so many other republicans, lets wait and see. Chris christie just reads this indictment and reacts like many of us do of this is really damning. And i think hes trying to differentiate himself along those lines. One of the things he said i want the team in the control to prepare slot one, if possible. He painted a picture of what a second trump term would look like. And i thought this was potentially residence nat with voters, even with voter who is ag agree with donald trump, who like donald trump. Lets play that sound. Hes so angry now. Hes angry and hes vengeful, and hes said, i will be your retribution. I dont think i dont want him to be my retribution. I dont need him to do that, and i dont think anybody in America Needs it either. He wants to be retribution for himself. I am convinced that if he goes back to the white house, the next four years will be all about him settling scores. Thats not thats not a crazy prediction. No, its not because we know how donald trump works. And just if youll go to truth social or live through the Trump Administration when we had it. The question is how big an audience does he have, especially when its donald trump right now right seven months ron desantis with a solid second. And Everybody Else. So, during this, i was texting around to a few people out in the states, in New Hampshire. Christie has a bit of attraction here but no real base. Trump gets no more than he has now. Trump has 40 now. There are nine other candidates in the race. So, a lot of people think trump will not go up. Trumps challenge is to hold what hes got. He was indicted. Hes going to be arraigned tomorrow. Were going to see pictures at the trial, who knows, second indictment in new york. Trumps about 40 in New Hampshire right now. Texting with somebody in iowa, i wish Chris Christie would get here because he gets trump into a mud fight. Would you support him . Absolutely not. But an antitrump person. The people who dont like trump see christies value as hurting trump. They dont see christie as somebody who can beat him. Nobody votes for seven months. We live in volatile times. Its hard. Is that what people want . He says about half of our base still is in an angry mood itself. The base is angry about their own grievances. You know, i think that youre right that the term Vanity Run Amuck wont necessarily be the most hurtful thing that donald trump heard out of Chris Christies mouth. But his audience is primarily, in addition to him, the republican electorate. And that fit into the larger theme about this is not his opponents fault. Blame him. He said many times, blame him. Hes putting the country through this. And going on later to say to the other candidates in the race, say his name. Say his name, Making A Harry Pot T er reference. And that is a main goal of the christie candidacy. It is to try to prosecute the case, the broader case, against donald trump in a way that he believes only he can do for lots of reasons. And to consolidate the antitrump forces. Im better than that. You want one person to take on trump, im better than that. Erin . Jake, here mauers, you know him well. You helped him prepare for this. One thing i thought he said that i thought was interesting, christie said, ooifs known him 22 years. The only thing he understands is force. Well, look, anyone whos watched donald trump over his entire career can agree with his statement from Chris Christie. And ive been to probably over 100 christie town halls in my life. That was vintage christie. It was the guy who was taking on uncomfortable truths. He was willing to say things that the Republican Base doesnt necessarily agree with him 100 on. But hes doing his own stuff. He got back to talking about his record as home state governor, prosecutor, Prosecuting 130 politicians. And now taking on one more prosecution potentially on a debate stage come august. Listen, the argument he was trying to make when he went on, i think is interesting dana just mentioned the voldemort reference. He said, youre not going to win against somebody if youre not going to say their name, that that isnt a winning strategy. He was trying to walk a line between taking on trump and trying to take on other policy issues. Did he make the case against the rest of the field and how theyre handling trump . Im going to make an early prediction that if that kind of performance continues, Chris Christie will end up on the debate stage. That was one of the most powerful points he made that not just the case against trump but the only way to beat trump is through them. The fact that candidates are dancing around them is not a winning strategy. He came to play when he was talking about donald trump. On the policy issues, he had some really strong moments, i would say. I think that he showed some grace when he was talking about the Second Amendment, though he did not budge on really any sort of changes, rather it would have been red flag laws. That to me says hes talking about New Hampshire where you dont talk about anything other than the Second Amendment. Were talking a form of child care, not just a child in the womb. So, you see the muscles he hasnt flexed in a while from 2016 talking policies. But the most effective part of Chris Christie is taking on donald trump. One thing i thought he was asked by anderson what defines okay. First was fiscal restraint. Second was a strong safety net. He talked about School Choice and more conservative things. But in the Republican Base right now, those are not Strong Social safety net would be just not what you hear about. If you consider Social Security and medicare to be a strong safety net. Hes saying im not going to cut your Social Security. He said strong safety net. He didnt stumble. Yeah. As i watched him tonight, i was thinking, this is a governor versus the cultural zeitgeist of the Republican Party. Governors talk about their terms in terms of what i did. You heard him say it numerous times, ive been there, ive done that. He talked about the things he accomplished. He never really dipped into the cultural arguments even when he got topics like abortion and guns and others, he didnt make strident commentary. He stayed away from it. The quote that stuck with me was, we can fight to get headlines or we can fight to get to an end. The question is, is the mood of the Republican Party, is it in search of ins or is it in search of people who just want to fight for the sake of fighting because they feel i would say, this candidacy is built for one group of people. In the abc news poll this weekend, 31 of americans that they have a favorable view of trump and biden. 70 of americans say they do not want this rematch. This candidacy is built for the double disapproval. There is no primary for the double disapproval. And thats the problem. But if you are in that camp and you watch that tonight, you would be all over it. Van, you know whats interesting to something he just said, i did not hear about drag cleans, i did not hear about trans athletes. I did not hear about bud light. I did not hear about target. I mean, now that i think about it, i was like, whoa, i cannot believe i did not hear those things in a republican town hall. Chris christie tonight was a scene, was a harbor for sane politics. Not just republicans, but for the country. That was a scene dude whos not scared of a cult leader or anybody else. I would never vote for him, but you, you may be wrong. You said there is not a primary for the double disappointed. We dont know whos going to show up in the primary. We dont have a primary on our side. There might be a lot of people who never voted in a primary before and would say i dont want trump, i dont want biden. And that can be either guys. Listen, im not just interested about what he said about donald trump. He said stuff about people that were addicted to drugs that was powerful. He talked about actual people. Listen, if that guy gets a nomination, i think democrats are going to have to eat our wheaties. This was a very important moment. There is at least now an option, a tough guy he defined fighting is fighting for you, not fighting for headlines. Paul . The most important thing is hes got a message. And i think van is right. The message, i thought it was just im going to take on trump. Nobody likes that more than me. I love that stuff. Okay, but this was much smarter than me. Youre very self aware. Im navy it. [laughter] he didnt just say trump is a pig. He said im a fighter for you. The democrats, i wrote a whole book about this, i was when i got this wrong when he ran against hillary. I was so appalled by trumps carer character, hes like the muhammad ali of evil in my eyes. Hes the biggest ever. But that doesnt move voters. Kristie made it about you. He said i am going to be a fighter for you. Donald fights for himself. And this, i hope joe biden was watching. And i think biden did that, thats why he won. The way to take on trump is not simply to attack trumps character, its certainly not to attack trump voters, im really tired of Hearing People run them in, its to say to those voters he has failed you. I looked it up, 82 counties with the highest opioid rate addiction, 75 voted for trump. Eight of the ten states with the highest moderate vote for trump. Counties that voted for trump have murder rates falters at higher. He has failed you, read america. He has failed you, trump america. This is what christie is getting at. I think hes on his way, a really powerful way to take on trump. Youve got a question from the woman in south carolina, when the first questions anderson took, that brought up the baby formula issue. She said she was a trump voter. She was time making ends meet and how difficult it is well the u. S. Is sending weapons to ukraine. His answer there was interesting. Taken as a trump voter, he said a great country should not be able to do both. Now, is that a message that can resonate and the gop right now, or this, you know, ukraine is set to become a litmus test, this issue of that money isnt as well spent. He answer that very specifically. A great country should be taking a step, back that was the theme and other aspects as well, right, the idea of walking and chewing gum at the same time. One ought to be able to criticize when there is a perception of the Department Of Justice deciding to prosecute one case over the other. Whether there is a discussion about be critical of funding or congressional appropriations or beyond, or the idea of trying to battle between what could be prudent common sense gun reform and a right and i need. He addressed that dramatically. What i appreciated about it, especially when it came to the prosecution in the matter, the silence that he was critical of of his republican colleagues. You can, on the one hand, be critical decisions not to, say, prosecute hillary clinton, james comey, or otherwise, but at the same time recognize the validity of a complaint and an indictment. I think that was really missing for a lot of people, because of course, the person whos going to be the president of the red states is gonna be the head of the executive branch. A civics lesson, their role is to enforce the law. So, if you are to shy away from addressing a violation of the law, addressing how it should be enforced, and ignoring the Organization Chart then clears the fbi, including director christopher wray, the idea of weaponization, no, i dont think biden is really doing that, if you are going to go against trump, get trump. But to support your own branch of government and the credibility that its supposed to have, i dont see how youre going to get very far in the office itself, let alone at the polls. And one other key point he made which i think is one of the pull quotes from tonight, loser, loser, loser. Donald trump has not won anything since 2016. And he made the point that independents opted in for voting him in 2016, like, lets give him a gamble. But they havent since. And my party is bleeding, finding candidates that appeal to him. I think you heard him sending a message. He said something that seems to allude to a billionaires tax, when he asked about the billionaires paying more. But that seems out of step with a lot of conservative norms but goes back to your point about a Strong Social safety net. In dependencies doing, it is reminding folks donald trump hasnt won it. And a quick thing here too, is that the main focus right now, even though now you talk about a primary . Maybe betting on what youre betting on, youll see these voters come, out that this is about one for those independents. Look, i know there are a couple iowa voters in there. Thats about as close as will get to an eyewall voter in this election, right . That was a tailor made message for New Hampshire independent you cant participate in an open primary process, as well as democrats. Right now, joe biden is not necessarily going to be on the ballot in New Hampshire come january, february next year. Theyre gonna be Looking For A Home Express their disappointment the direction of the country and possibly donald trump. Chris christie gave them a reason, boston participate in the all right, allstate when the. Much more to come in our coverage tonight including an indepth fact check of what christy told voters tonight. Plus, donald trump is in florida, youll be arrested and it rained again tomorrow. We have some new reporting coming up. Well be back. Sam who make. . Everyday products. Designed smarter. Like a smart Coffee Grinder that orderers fresh beans for you. Oh, genius for more breaktkthroughs like that. I need a a breakthrough card. Like ours with 2. 5 cash back on purchases of 5,000 or more. Plus unlimited 2 cash back on all other purchases and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas. A brilliant reality the Ink Business Premier Card from chase for business. Make more of whats yours. Maisha shared leadership has to do with. Michael acknowledging parents as equal partners. Narrator californias Community Schools. Grant Community Schools lift the voices of folks that have traditionally not been heard whether theyre parents, students, community groups. John its shared decisionmaking with parents. Theyre saying that these are the priorities that they want to see for their kids. Wendy it allows us to create the school that our students deserve. Rafael Community Schools are innovative, and theyre working. Narrator californias Community Schools reimagining public education. Good evening, im jake tapper, alongside erin burnett, our Special Coverage continues now of tonights main event, our cnn town hall with Chris Christie, the former new jersey governor. Were also going to have the very latest on the preparations for tomorrows second arrest of former President Donald Trump. One of the biggest headlines from his rivals this evening, the former governor kristi, who is really trying and making it very clear that he thinks that the way to beat trump is to go straight at him. Hes angry and hes vengeful, and he said i am convinced that if she goes back to the white house, that the next four years will all be back and settling scores. He has shown himself, and most particularly in his post presidency, to be completely self centered, completely self consumed, and doesnt give a dam about the american people. Governor christie also offered his predictions on the u. S. Governments case against donald john trump. There will guarantee be a lot more. When your prosecutor, you never put every card on the table. Specifically, i think there will be a lot of witnesses that actually worked for donald trump that are now gonna be testifying against. Cnn anchor Kaitlan Collins is in Miami Florida ahead of trumps Court Appearance tomorrow. Kaitlan, lets focus on christy s attacks. Whats your take away . I think what struck me, jake, is just how personal his criticism of the former president was. Obviously, he is one of about two gop candidates for president who are running for the republican primary nomination that have been outright critical of what happened here and of this indictment after it was unsealed last week. But tonight, Chris Christie took this indictment and what republicans have been saying, blaming it on the Justice Department, blaming it on president biden, claiming there is this to tear Justice System, and he said no, he said thats wrong, its got something to do with trump, putting himself before the country, and making all about trump, the man itself, not just trump, the republican front runner. Hes saying im more important than the country. These are my papers. He saw an indictment is employees were scared. He always call them his boxes, his boxes, he wants his boxes near him. He flew the boxes up to new jersey for summer vacation. What is this, like theyre a Family Member . I mean, seriously, i got my boxes with me. And let me ask you a question, what exactly was he doing with them . Did someone remind him hes not the president anymore . You dont need these things anymore. This is vanity run amok, anderson, run amok, ego run amok. And hes now going to put this country through this, when we did not have to go through it. And everyone is blaming the prosecutors. He did it. Its his conduct. And you can hear him there, jake, hes almost mocking trump. And for Chris Christie to do that, whos obviously been a very outspoken critic of trump lately, is not surprising. But when you look at the entirety of the relationship, it certainly is. Obviously, i covered trump on the Campaign Trail the first time around. Kristie dropped out, endorsed trump, was boosting him on the Campaign Trail. I was there in 2020, when christie was inside the white house, Helping Trump prepare for the debates against president biden. And tonight, obviously, hes running against him for this nomination, but offering a very fierce criticism and essentially making fun of trump for taking the boxes and having this obsession with him, an obsession that is clear when you read the indictment and how many times trump referred to them, you know, as my boxes. But, certainly a march sharper criticism then youll see from anyone else in the public infield. All right, Kaitlan Collins, well see you again in a few minutes, erin . Jake, lets take a look at what Chris Christie did on the facts. Factchecking is crucial, checking tonights cnns tom foreman, who watched all. So, tom, what did christie have to say about the investigation to trumps 2016 campaign, and the russian, probe as we try to break down these facts . Yeah, kristie said from the getgo that he called accusations of the Trump Campaign colluding with the russians garbage, and he said the evidence backed his position, listen. I was involved in that campaign in 2016 with donald trump. Let me tell you something. I can guarantee there was no colluding going on. Theyre trying to figure out how to get from new york to wisconsin, okay . They were not colluding with the russians was the last thing they were thinking about. Well, as a political ally at the time of trump, christy came to trumps defense many times including on russia,. However, gusty also specifically rejected trumps claim that the russia probe was a witch hunt. He said the degree of russian meddling in it at one point, was absolutely chilling. And we should note, the Mueller Report found there were attempts in 2016 at collusion between the russians and the Trump Campaign, and trump aides were, quote, receptive to some office, but no one was charged with conspiracy. So, he veered a little bit there. Overall, he stuck generally to the facts and let them speak for themselves throughout the evening, erin. Did not take as many flights of fancy we sometimes seen political media. No, no, he didnt. Tom foreman, thanks. Jake, it was interesting, even on the point is talk about debt, right, hes said obama increased the debt, and then trump increased more. I mean, i did notice several points where he made a point of using facts, and he did use them accurately. Yeah, he sure did. Lets talk about this in my panel, christie took aim at both trump and biden on concerns that either one of them would become the oldest person ever elected president. Take a listen. If those two people are the nominee is, they are going to be a combined 160 years old on election day. Im sorry, guys, nobody beats father time. Nobody does. Im different than i was when i first got into office 13 years ago, okay . Im different, i feel it. And i cannot imagine 20 years from now, 22 years from now when im 60 years year old, at 82, being president of the United States . Our panel is back, and john, he referred to both biden and trump as being bass theres sell by dates. He said one of his childrens called him ageist, any joke here to look at up. I suspect he knew what it meant. [laughter] look its, insisting, he said joe biden is a big spender, he said in his view, he he has a Policy Difference with joe biden, but as with him on ukraine, not a tough sell to the republic primary election. What does he do he made a smart point about New Hampshire. Undeclared, meaning independent voters can vote. And a democrat can vote, its very rare, people talk about this all the time and they always clock out the strategy, im going to get people in the other party to cross over and vote for me. As many people at this table tend to do it, but for an undeclared, people in the middle, sometimes they do go to the competitive side. Is their competitive race . Hes running a one state campaign. Its New Hampshire. Just like you have mike pence and jim scott out an ottawa, it either takes off, there are where youre going to go . He is going to go to New Hampshire where he is just trying to get a more libertarian state, a little less republican, more libertarian, at least the history was. Its become a trump east gate. But hes trying to find a spot. And the idea that youre done with donald trump, the criticisms of biden, if youre the nominee, any republican is going to say, you heard about biden with a possible exception of ukraine. But is that an effort to try and get a couple extra votes New Hampshire . Because thats as one play . Yeah, i mean, hes not wrong about the age issue being a factor on both the republican and on the democratic side. But i think in his party, the Biggest Issue is actually grievance. And the point that he made about whether or not republicans want trump running on his own grievances, that also might be true. But i think trump is making the argument to Republican Voters that my grievances or your grievances, if theyre coming after me, they will come after you next. And you appears that with Republican Voters in order to have credibility. And im not sure that christie has done that just yet. And trump is not the only one running on grievance. Desantis is also running on a version of Grievance Politics in a more kind of professionalize manner, talking about, you know, the power of the state and conservatives be marginalized in the culture. But kristie would need to figure out how to tap into that. And i do think that may have been nothing missing tonight, which is, how does he speak to those voters . And its probably more than 50 of the Republican Party for whom that message is very resonant. I think right now, yes, you mentioned biden, really did mention other republicans. I think Chris Christie right now is the van jones never trump candidate. The republicans i heard from today, tonight, who liked him are all, i would say, never trumpers. Im voting republican again for Chris Christie. I agree with everything he says. Kristie was great. Kristies my guy. Those three republicans, theyre from all over the country, but they all have one thing in common, theyre never trumpers. Right. Right, theyve had to move to New Hampshire. And theyre not enough. There are not enough never trumpers to win this election. So, elie, one thing that is interesting is this the kind of explained his theory of the case as to why trump kept those classified documents, and it had to do with, if you read Between The Lines and also listen to his words, the fact that donald trump china has lived in denial over the past few years that he lost to joe biden. Lets run that clip. This is vanity run amok, anderson, run amok, ego run amok. And hes not gonna put this country through this, when we didnt have to go through it. He cannot live with the fact that he lost joe biden. He cant live with it. And look, i watch the way joe biden is performing, i would be pretty bummed out too if i lost to joe biden. But the fact is, he did, and he wants to continue to pretend hes president. He wants the trappings of the presidency around him. And i think one of those trappings is these documents. So, if im hearing him correctly, he seems to be leaning into the idea that Donald Trumps whole world of denial, where he pretends he didnt lose and the election was stolen, also had to do with the fact that he had all these documents in his showing them off to people, he was pretending its basically cause play. Its an interesting bit a psycho analysis by Chris Christie. But i actually happen to agree with it, when you read the indictment, there is not some great evil plan that donald trump has with these documents. He takes, he moves them around from the stage to the bathroom to bedminster. He does deploy them, those two instances we know about where hes showing off . Yeah, hes showing off, hes trying to get them to shape the coverage there giving a little bit in his favor. But thats enough. I mean, thats certainly enough in terms of the technical criminal legal sense. Makes it a little harder for prosecutors to stand up in front of a jury, because what the Defense Lawyers are gonna say, whats the grand plan here, some conspiracy between trump and his valet, walt nauta, to move documents into the shower . Who cares . Now again, technically meets the legal definition. But that is an interesting nuance of the case. I do think thats the best explanation. One other thing about Chris Christie, he was very strong tonight, and he has been throughout his career, and standing up for the independents and the prosecutors. He was one wants. And had a section tonight when he said something like, whats with constantly blaming prosecutors and this sort of Grievance Politics . How about you start with a person who did wrong . And i will tell you, Chris Christie did that throughout his career. I was head of Criminal Justice in new jersey when he was governor of the state, and there were many times when the media would call upon us of the a. G. s office, this person needs to prosecute it. And ask them governor christie, what do you think, should the a. G. s office we look at this person . And he would always say the same thing, similar to what he said tonight, he would say i was a prosecutor, the last thing any prosecutor needs or wants politicians getting involved. Its interesting, john king, also one of things he said, first of all, chris wray, the director of the fbi, is under fire from republicans, who are alleging that the fbi and Department Of Justice are being weaponized against republicans, even though chris wray was appointed by donald trump. Chris wray was also Chris Christies lawyer drink bridge gate, and he said he would keep him in that job, which is also again, not what the base perhaps wants to hear. Right, that was the one time he took direct disagreement with governor desantis, because questions asked in the contest, desantis said he would fire him on day one. He said he would not. He said he would keep him there. He didnt take a shot at desantis, steady . He did not, he just said we disagree, agree to disagree, and moved on. He said he would keep him there unless he found out something when he was president that he had done something wrong, but he thought it was a good guy. I need to know, youll notice he went on, he was smart enough, i guess, for the Republican Base to say he is cleaned out all the leadership that was there of james comey, who is anathema to the problem base, is gone. But again, sounds like a little thing in todays Republican Party, i suspect somebody wax and win it. Yeah. Our live coverage continues in just a moment, with much more live coverage, with away from the second arrest of donald trump. House he preparing for his arraignment . How are Security Officials preparing to keep the peace . Well bring you that story, next. Are you taking the right multivitamin . With new chapter, you get excellent quality, organic ingredients, and fermentation. Fermentation . Yes. Feel the difference with 20 plus nutrients your body can absorb. So you can do you. Learn more at newchapter. Com. Suffering from sinus congestion, especially at night . Try vicks sinex for instant relief that lasts up to 12 hours. Vicks sinex targets congestion at the source, relieving nasal congestion, and sinus pressure by reducing swelling in the sinuses. Try vicks sinex. Was also the first time your profits left you speechless. At the counter or on the go, save 20 with the lowest Transaction Fees and keep more of what you make. Start saving today at godaddy. Com i feel wholly inadequate giving you that answer, because three my children were sitting there and i have a fourth one out in chicago, and what is a very dangerous place for a daughter right now. And i dont know how id put one foot in front of the other if i lost one of them. So, all i can say to you is that i will do my very best to try to come up with some compromise that can bring all sides together on this that can make it better. And i think the only way you do that is by listening to everybody who is involved and concerned about, and try and find those Common Threads. And then as a leader, pull those Common Threads together and come to a solution. That was the former new jersey governor, Chris Christie, at a town hall a few moments ago talking about gun control, guns, he was talking to a father who lost his son in the las vegas shooting. You know, scott, it was interesting, there was a lot of policy. He had thought a lot about that. It was very interesting on this particular issue, and one other. But first, lets stick to this one. He did not have an answer. And this is a person who had of course an earlier iteration of his career had been for an Assault Weapons ban. Here, he was making the argument of i dont really know, and i dont think theres anything else the federal government can do. Yeah, he really did not want to lean into some of the culture war topics, guns being one. But republicans want to hear of course is that you are going to defend the individual Right To Keep And Bear Arms at all costs. Thats what most Republican Voters want to hear. But he did not want to get into that. Numerous times tonight, when he got a question from an audience member, he did it with the south carolina, he did it with that gentlemen, he really lean into their personal story more than sloganeering. The empathy of it. To me, thats the real authentic quality of Chris Christie. Now, does it Making A Culture Warrior . Does it make him a very partisan idealogue . Which in some ways is in vogue right now. But it does make him engaging. Make some serious. And honestly, it makes him seem humbled to me. When a politician looks at you and says i dont have all the answers, but ill do my best to get to the most unifying answer i can, that is a pretty humble statement in a world that doesnt really reward that right now. All right, but what about on the accuracy of this, right, that there can be more down on the federal level . There are things that could be done at the federal level, if you chose to do them at a federal level, whether be about bump stocks or loophole. Yeah, i like that he was willing to let hard things be hard. Abortion is hard, hes willing to let that be hard. Guns are hard, hes willing to let that be hard. But he was docking. There could be more that could be done at the federal level. And frankly, you know, if you are truly passionate on the question of abortion, theres more that can be done on the federal level there. So, he was breaking with this kind of authentic policies, Straight Talk role there. But i think he was being authentic and parts of it are hard. There is a little bit of nuance to the statement as well, because he tries to make a connection when anderson spoke about how he had changed his views on, say, the Assault Weapons ban and beyond, the question was, when hes 29 years old, why do you need this . And he said that is the wrong question. The question is not about need, its about the right, and then reference the Second Amendment, as a point of reference. Why i think that so important, leads me to think about that, is because that is the debate. People are talk about, well, why do you need this . Is it really for hunting or otherwise . Thats one conversation that is happening. Then there is the Second Amendment consideration, this one court, whether talking, not the need, the right for preference, and what youre able to do. And at its core, i think to unpack that even further is probably one of the reasons why he did not have the answers, because youre looking ahead to the supreme court, looking about what questions are being asked, and whether suicidally we are going to balance this need versus right, and in fact the right question. Go ahead. I think when things are trying to do is bring a three dimensional aspect to it. Where you stand on the issues, where you are going to act as a leader when the white house. Its almost the opposite approach of someone like ron desantis. Ron desantis and his campaign are saying i want to be most concerned of guy on every issue. Doesnt matter what it is, what donald trump says, im the most conservative guy. But dont worry about personality. Chris christie saying the opposite. Look, i stand by the Second Amendment, im personally prolife, all these things. But let me tell you how im going to think as leader and act as leader. And it was differentiating him from a lot of other competitors. To that point, lets talk about the abortion question, because there is one telling moment there, he said, look, in oklahoma you can have an abortion at all, and he said in new jersey, now thats his state. They now allowed up to nine months. He was making the point that he was prolife but the governor of a state that was, and he could support that, fine. But his point in his i get that its complicated. But hes saying until the states figured out and get on the same page, there is nothing that can be done. But the reality, of course, is that you are in a state where a woman in a dire situation may not get an abortion at all. It doesnt really answer the question. I saw two ways. On the one hand, theres a level of humility, and its such a stark juxtaposition to i alone can fix it, of donald trump. The person who thinks they have all the answers, weve worked in the white house, no one has all the answers. I think he was a little meekly prepared on the abortion answer. And i think he will sharpen up on it. Seemed like he was leaning into a states right issue, whats right for oklahoma doesnt have to write for new jersey, because the answer was around a federal sort of ban. But again, this will be one of the defining debates of our time, and certainly of this coming election. And i think that that group he is trying to appeal to and stands to grow with, which is independents and moderates, hes going to have to define and lane in terms of where he is on jobs in the postdobbs era. Yeah, and that, paul, he did not do that. No, he is a guy who does not want to live and die on social issues. He is not a rightwing social warrior. You know, ron desantis, to paraphrase joe biden, every sentence is a noun a verb and woke. Just christie doesnt want to live there. I thought i was refreshing as a democrat. And i bet you there are a lot of republicans who feel that way. Its kind of like taking on trump for being too selfish, rather than to corrupt. And he did, he almost had it, when he said trump, i want to be your retribution. The next line has to be i want to be your economic recovery. Right, something about you. He was on the saying hell get there. Im sorry to be such a campaign manager. But thats where he wanted to get. And when he was talking christie has a reputation as a bully. And his town Hall Meetings in new jersey, he was famous for calling people jerks, like teachers who is fighting with. Yes, oh yeah, i remember some of these soundbites. I was really pleased. You can see the chip go off. He was talking at that poor man. But in mid answer, it changed. Something happened. And thats great, it shows hes living in the moment. I dont know how anyone can live with that mans pain. And how many politicians can look at him and not feel that pain. So, good, good for him for making that mid course correction. You know, he said, he said tonight that hes different than he was 13 years ago when you run into office. He did seem to be a more mellow version. Because when he came to prominence in the Republican Party, the reason he was so popular for a bit was because he was Bashing Teachers Unions in those town Hall Meetings. He was, like, confronting them. And those confrontational moment came to define him. But i did not see that tonight. I saw a very humble person who just wanted to move the country past confrontation. Just not his reputation. And one other quick point, van, one other thing he was talking about was compromise, and he brought up which, she likes to do. But the whole point was saying is if you get zero, you get zero. But if you get 60 of what you want, thats a win. And compromise is not a bad word. And on that, opposed to guns or abortion, where he was really lowered to talk about, he did want to talk about that. Look, were in a weird spot when Chris Christie is the unifier in chief. Thats where were at. Chris christie is coming here, lets calm down with all the. And i think he was playing a paternal role, you know. He was being the dad. He talked about personal responsibility, trump needs to take personal responsibility. You know, it was interesting. It was not the Chris Christie i was used to seeing. And maybe there is room for someone like him. All right, all stay with us, it is the eve of another historic day, the Second Signer Of Donald Trump just hours away in miami. Up next, the major preparations underway and the mounting security concerns. And of course, how the ex president is spending his final hours before that arraignment. Were live in miami. 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Tell us about it. Yeah, trump, of course is here, jake. Earlier, he arrived several hours earlier today. He is staying in his miami resort before that arraignment tomorrow. And basically, he has spent the day having conversations about adding another loiters legal team. As of 10 30 pm right now, it is not clear that anyone has been selected to do so right now. We know that at least one of the attorneys he has been considering adding to the team, benedict cooney, was seen and trumped around. That is where the former president is staying. Its not clear if hes decided to add anyone. And jake, as you, know hes been searching to at a florida based attorney to his team, even before two of his top attorneys on this case specifically resigned last friday. They reside in part because trump was pursuing adding another attorney to the team, and they had been the top attorneys litigating this. So, he is down to attorneys that is handling the documents case, still searching for someone else. Its not clear right now that this will be resolved before he actually has that arraignment tomorrow. Thats not really seen as a big deal for the people i have spoken with, todd blanche, who is the other attorney he added to his team, just back in april, only about two months ago, he is going to be one of the people you do see going to court with the former president tomorrow. It remains to be seen who he adds ultimately to the legal team though. Obviously, you can see one to people depart the team who have been working on this case, its been difficult for trump to find attorneys in the past. One thing that we did learn, jake, as well, is it was a week ago from last friday that im told trumps team got the letter from the special counsel, jack smith, informing him that he was indeed a target in this investigation. Obviously, that proceeded the indictment of the former president. But when the Justice Department sends those notifications out, which they are not required to do, it does give the person theyre sending it to the opportunity to present evidence or come testify before the grand jury. Im told that trump expressed some interest in coming before them and doing that. Ultimately, he did not do so. And when the people i spoke with said they were not sure about how serious he was about that, jake. Remember, he expressed some interest in doing that in the manhattan case as well. But that is kind of the frame of mind as trump is preparing to go to his second indictment in just a matter of months, tomorrow, for that arraignment. So so, kaitlan, obviously this is not the first time this year that donald trump has been arrested and arraigned. We saw that happen in new york with state charges. Obviously, new york and florida are very different in terms of procedures, in terms of what is open to the public to see, what is not. Walk us through the appearance tomorrow. What should we expect . Do you think we will see a mugshot . Will we see any images of him from inside the courthouse . It doesnt seem like were going to see much. We may not even see him going into the courthouse. We believe there will be some courtroom sketches, jake, but its not going to be photos or anything like we saw last time, were photographers were briefly allowed in, like when you saw those historic photos of trump in the courtroom, were not expecting that to happen tomorrow. Jim trusty, the attorney who is since august we left the team, he initially said last week he is not gonna be arrested or anything like that because it was a summons for trump to appear here tomorrow. So, really, the question is not among his team what happens tomorrow. Obviously, hell plead not guilty, its what happens next. Because thats when the next date is set. Thats when he could potentially be in front of judge cannon, a trump appointed judge, i should note, who is appointed by trump in the days after he lost the 2020 election. That is really what trumps legal team and those around him will be looking at. Its not really in tomorrow, when is obviously, though, going to have that historic moment, as you noted, pleading not guilty for the second time in just a matter of months. All right, Kaitlan Collins in miami outside the courthouse, thank you so much. Erin . All right, jake, what are the Security Preparations here . Were expecting Tens Of Thousands of people, maybe 50,000 people to show up, around trumps Court Appearance. We just dont know. Federal and local Law Enforcement officials have been working together to try to come up with a plan. And they did not have any heads up on this coming. So, you can obviously a very sophisticated police department, but not a lot of time. And they are concerned about how many people may show up to support the former president. And then counter protesters. Sources familiar with the latest intelligence spoke to our simone prokupecz, who joins us now. And shimon, i know youve been talking about the concerns of Tens Of Thousands, maybe 50,000 people showing up and just sort of converging upon that courthouse. Are there specific concerns that authorities have . Well, certainly its the large number of groups, people who can descend on this courthouse. And the big question, whether or not, you know, Law Enforcement can adequately respond. The miami police certainly say they can adequately respond. Theyre ready to respond. Of course, a lot of Law Enforcement officials thinking about january 6th, with all these events, certainly involving the former president , that is something they think about. When you look at the area here, we have our drone up over the area, you can just see how wide open a lot of the space is. And certainly one of things theyre concerned about is the protesters and supporters gathering all across the streets. Right now, there is no designated area for the supporters and protesters to go. So, the police are saying theyre kind of going to let them go. And theyre gonna see how this develops. And if no one shows up if, there arent as many people, then theyre just going to sort of leave them alone. But if it gets too crowded, to pack, now we may see them placed in different areas. But there is really no plan that we are aware of. And the other thing, erin, you really can see theres not a lot of security around here at the moment. Its much different than what we saw two months ago in manhattan, where even the night before, there were barricades and several Law Enforcement officers and Police Officers all across the property. Were not seeing any of that here tonight. Obviously and hopefully, that is going to change tomorrow. Today, police really would not talk about their plans. They just said theyre going to be ready. And they say that people should not fear anything, others to be prepared, erin. Well, shimon, thank you very much. Jake, it is amazing, right, they just didnt have much warning. So, you know, you see right now, you dont see a lot of security, but you could see Tens Of Thousands of people there tomorrow. Not difficult to imagine, unfortunately. Joining us here at the table, doctor donell harvin, former chief of Homeland Security for washington, d. C. , along with john king, jamie gangel, elie honig. And i know we have a lot of questions for you. So, i will take to, and ill let Everybody Else ask questions about your expertise. Because obviously, just for people who dont know, you are sounding the alarms from Homeland Security for d. C. Before january 6th. And sadly, a lot of your alarms were unheeded. The rhetoric online that were seeing now, that were hearing now, not just online, but you know, publicly from members of congress, et cetera, how does it compare with what you saw On January 6th . So, currently what were seeing is not the volume of rhetoric we saw On January 6th, but that shouldnt give anyone comfort, because a lot of these individuals have stopped posting things, what we call open source. And we collect open Source Intelligence and what we call wasnt. Theyve gone to these encrypted chat rooms, and theyre doing their planning privately. What we have seen, however, far more violence in rhetoric. On january 6th, we did not see anything about civil war or calls to arms, as much as were seeing now. So, there is less chatter, if you will, but a lot more violence. So, obviously florida, new york, washington, d. C. , all very different places. Washington, d. C. And new york, very strict gun control measures, mayors and governors that are not exactly Donald Trumps biggest fans. Florida, very permissive gun laws, and a governor whos trying to appeal to Donald Trumps fans. How concerned are you about these two different situations . Well, i dont want to be the procrastinator, but, you know, two entirely different scenarios. A lot of the individuals coming from january 6th were coming from florida. So, the d. C. Mayor made it very clear that guns were not allowed. Mayor adams did likewise in new york city. You know, florida as very lax gun laws. So, the question is, there is a lot of talk, not from trump, but from a lot of the individuals in his orbit talking about, you know, the Second Amendment, arming yourselves. And this really plays into specific groups that are extremely violent, accelerationist groups. Theyve been plotting for decades for this race, for the civil war. So, well these words may just be rhetoric for politicians or other individuals who are influencers, this is real true red meat for the people who are unstable, who have been waiting for this call for many years. To that point, and again, a little bit more granular to the question jake asked first, based on your experience On January 6th, you say this, less chatter, but its more violent. In looking at, eight, what you think was miss before january 6th, and b, going through that in hindsight, going through the postings and sorting, whether there are certain words, certain language, that would help you understand this is just Somebody Vending . You may not like, it but its their First Amendment right . And oh, this person is serious. Is there any lesson from january 6th, certain words, certain people, and a pattern of communication that coordinates and says violence is coming, as opposed to Somebody Just venting . Yeah, well, you have to look at the previous posts. And you have to look at, you know, theyre posting with guns. And thats what we saw a lot of on january six. I will tell you the reason why we actually have a democracy right now is because people didnt bring Guns En Masse to d. C. If those individuals had brought guns to d. C. , in violation of d. C. Rules, this will be a whole different conversation. So, what were talking about in florida, miami right now, right now, tomorrow, its really Uncharted Waters for us. In terms of the Threat Assessment that every state and local has the capability to do, everyone has different protocols. Some of it is the language. Some of it is where theyre posting it. And some of it is really based on good oldfashioned tips and leads. So goes back to if you see something, say something. A lot of these individuals we saw On January 6th were actually turned in by Family Members, a loved one who saw them on television. So, what we would need right now is to engage the public to really help defray any issues that may come about. Waiting for government to solve your Homeland Security problems is obviously not going to really play out really well. We saw a new york lockdown in a remarkable way when trump was arrested there. Just now with shimon, we saw some Yellow Police tape there. Its shockingly different. If you are responsible right now for keeping the peace tomorrow, what is going to keep you up tonight . We saw that at the same time. I can only hope there is a better Security Posture thats going to happen tonight or tomorrow before the protests come. That yellow Crime Scene Tape is for lawabiding people who are going to recognize that as a do not enter area and not pass. We saw the u. S. Capitol police set up a bike rack that was actually use as projectiles against us. So, my hope is there going to have more security rolled out at some point tonight or tomorrow. I would have eight foot non scalable fans like we have around the capitol every inauguration. That takes some time to set up. I dont think they will get that up by tomorrow. Id be pretty concerned based on what shimon was just showing us. How strong of the oath keepers and proud boys now, as compared to january 6th . And have the prosecutions of the leaders of those organizations had any impact . I dont know intrinsically how strong the membership is. What i can tell you is that with the leaked Oath Keepers Roster that we saw last year, what is concerning for a lot of us in this business is that there are individuals in positions of public trust, Law Enforcement, military, police chiefs, that were actually on that list. So, what were combatting right now Behind The Scenes is radicalization actually within the ranks of Law Enforcement, retired military, and current military. I will also tell you that when i was in a position of monitoring these groups, the oath keepers and proud boys werent our biggest threat, right. There are groups out there that you have not heard about that we will not talk about in this program that are far more dangerous, far more prepared, and theyre not going to go out there and show themselves until its time to mobilize. And my concern is when donald trump says see you in miami, when kari lake says you know, youre gonna have to go through 70 plus million americans with guns, right, thats the call theyve been waiting for for decades. Theyve been arming for decades, ever since waco and ruby ridge, and this may be their trigger. You donell harvin, thank you so much, really appreciate it. Coming up next, were going to dissect the legal side of this indictment, and politically, how more of Donald Trumps 2024 rivals are starting to attack him over the arrest and arraignment. Stay with us. Oh ms. Flores, what would we do without you . 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Joining the table here, john miller, senior chief Law Enforcement analyst, also Deputy Commissioner for counterterrorism for the nypd, and Karen Friedman agnifilo, cnn legal analyst, former Chief Assistant to the manhattan d. A. s office. Karen, let me start with you. We dont know what will get tomorrow. We may get nothing tomorrow in terms of seeing him. We may not get pictures, we may not get video, we may not see the doj mugshot, john was just saying, we know that is moving its doj policy. We may not hear anything. All right, so what does all that . Mean were just gonna find out the plate . So, whats going to happen tomorrow is the Magistrate Judge who was overseeing this case has said there will be no cameras in this courtroom, no electronic devices, which is why we will not see the things you are talking about. But there will be people in the courtroom who will come out and tell us what they saw and what happened. They will also be a stenographer whos taking minutes and im sure well see the minutes of the proceeding tomorrow, so know what was said and what was done. So well know the direct quotes of what he said . And there will be a sketch artist, im sure, who will be making sketches and that sort of thing. So, i think well have a lot of information tomorrow. And if youll recall, when Donald Trumps first arraigned in new york state court, we also had to wait until afterwards, other than the one photograph that the judge allowed reporters to go in and take, he also had a similar, just had an embargo. There was no electronic devices, and we all sat there waiting for the information to come out in the transcripts. And obviously remember that case, two months ago, your talk about alvin bragg in new york. The former president kept his answers very therese. He did, and also afterwards, he was not willing to answer any questions to the media, which surprised a lot of people. This is likely going to be something similar, because a Campaign Event later on that hes reserved for that moment in. Time but will be very difficult to muzzle this person in a particular way that i think his lawyers are interested in hearing. On the lower point, remember, there are codefendants in this matter. Ill be very curious to see if at the end of tomorrow we still have one Legal Defense team, or if there is an eye towards having separate council, which would move towards a thing called severance, when one defendant does not want to try with the other. Thats a possibility here, but who foots that they will be a different thing. But if their interests are totally aligned, and the interests of officiants our courts require them to be together, they will remain together. If that changes, will start to know a little bit more tomorrow. And what we dont know, john, of course, as we look at all this, is with all the information in the indictment, why was walt nauta not given an opportunity to flip on trump before this point, or not . Did they ever say, well, actually, i know you are telling us you dont know these things, but we have you on tape, and we have all of it. We dont know if he was ever confined with that, or whether only now he is finding out the truth, if he believes what he sees there. So, we dont know that. But there are these cases where there are two bites at this apple. He may be approached by agents are prosecutors early on to say, as they put it, do you want to come on team america and, you know, tell us what you know, and testify as a witness . Or you could end up as a defendant. That may or may not have happened at some stage, as you point out. But as laura points out, in the second instance, there comes this awakening, this moment of reality where you, or some other lawyer, realizes, you know, you guys are charged together, but it is not in your interest to go to trial together because, you know, your defense maybe he told me to do it. And thats where you start to think about asking the court for a severance, asking for a different, lawyer if your lawyer is being paid for by the lead defendant. And you are familiar with nauta, who is of course the alleged coconspirator in the indictment. You know, it was funny, ty cobb, former white house attorney, was telling me today, all the things you could say about walt nauta, he is a patriot. And when the greatest honors in his life was being a valet for the president of the United States. How do you think this moment is affecting him . Because he has become, along with the on named employee number two, perhaps the most important person in this case. Right, because he had a 20year long career in the navy, and when the highest things you can reach the personal age of the president. And what that looks like in the west wing is he would be somebody who would fetch this for me, get me a diet coke, bring this. And when you have a level of personal proximity that walt did in the west wing, when i was there, and by the time he left office, i think this has to be a moment where somebody who wore the uniform in service and has served our country has to think long and hard about perhaps you are drawn into the former president s magnetism, perhaps you felt like you were doing something patriotic by standing by him. Maybe believe in his policies. But this is, this is your country charging that former president. I would hope for his sake, ive seen way too many my old colleagues and friends set up with 10,000 worth of legal bills. Hes better if he separates him self on the former president. Were gonna get a speech, most likely from donald trump tomorrow night. He is struggling to find attorneys right now. Thats partially because hes probably going to step into incriminating himself even further, as he talks more in the speeches that he just tomorrow night. This is not a man of discipline. Kara, can i just say, what if you say earlier today . Pardon me if im putting it on the public imagination. But maga in attorney lions make attorneys get attorneys. Its true. I mean, in terms of finding someone represent, its not easy. Its not easy because many lawyers hes already representative are themselves having to get attorneys, and whether its prosecuted, find, et cetera. Thats why corcoran, of course, has im sure, has that recorded Audio Footage that is essentially in full sway mode, knowing what happened with Michael Cohen and beyond to suggest, look, im Gonna Contemporaneously record what ive said. I will say, keep a look out, if corcoran does ultimately testified a trial, a crossexamination point will be, well, he recorded this, but you didnt resign from actually being his attorney at that point in time. So, there will be questions about the tenure of his actual relationship, but its a very interesting point that theyre trying to make sure that there is coverage in that respect. So, are we going to start to see, scott, any change in the gop field . We saw a little bit of a shift, nikki haley, right, on the eve of the indictment, a tutor Justice System in america. She may or may not have used the word witch hunt, but that is the whole point. And now, its if these are serious charges. Tonight, Chris Christie saying you can have your issues about restoring trust in the doj. That does not mean what trump did is okay, and theres no Double Standard in this case. We see more. That i think if pressed some of these people would be forced to admit the National Security implications here. But i think youll see anyone go as far as what Chris Christie or Isa Hutchinson said. I was a little surprised to see nikki haley, well, i guess i was not surprised, this is her reputation. I think most Republican Voters, you saw the polling over the weekend, they think this is political, they think its a two to the system, they think its a selective punishment, theyre out to get trump. So, these people running for president , they can read a poll and they know all of that. So, i dont expect to see a big change. But the authentic National Security focused conservative could not look at the evidence of this case and say, whatever, its fine. I do. I was a little shocked by Lindsey Grahams case. You know, mr. , hes for ukraine aid, care so much about National Security, and yet, he took trump side on this one. They tend to do that. I just hope we dont get too used to this. I just dont like it. We now actually have a playbook we know, okay, the president got indicted, so theres going to be protest, theres gonna be this, hes going to do this, hes gonna give a speech. Thats not healthy. I dont want to get used to this. We should all be sober and appalled tomorrow when this happens. All right, well, all of you, thank you very much, something we all can agree with, i hope. And thanks so much to all of you for joining us tonight. Special coverage continues next, with abby phillip. Say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your car insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liliberty. Liberty. Our heritage is ingrained in our skin. And even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. Because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. But you best believe, you cant take the italy out of an alfa romeo. Sometimes, the lows of Bipolar Depression feel darkest before dawn. 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