Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom With Carol Costello 20140718

Well play the whole tape for you. Then the United States will offer assistance we can to help determined what happened and why. Reporter president obama offers help but what can the United States really do . Plus Ground Invasion at gaza. Israeli tanks roll across the border and the air strikes wont relent, and the israeli Prime Minister says the military is getting ready for even more action. Lets talk, live in the cnn newsroom. Good morning to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Im carol costello. U. S. Intelligence out just moments ago with the first real take on responsibility for malaysian flight 17. Preliminary classified report concludes a missile fired by prorussian separatists, prorussian rebels most likely took down the plane. There is still no confirmation this morning that any americans were on board flight 17. Also american investigators are on their way to ukraine to advise to help in any way they can as the world tries to make sense of a passenger plane blown out of the sky. Also, ukrainian rebels claim they gave the missile launcher used and the black boxes to russia overnight. Chris cuomo is covering the story from kiev, ukraine. Hi, chris. Reporter hey carol, how are you . Were stopping here in kiev and going to make our way east towards where the plane was taken down, obviously. Thats much more easily said than done. There are two very different realities all right, weve lost our signal from kiev, but i do know that chris talked to the Ukrainian Foreign minister a little earlier on new day and Ukrainian Foreign minister denied any involvement in the takedown of this plane. Lets listen. The big question is what do you think the cause was . We intercepted a number of calls from the terrorists talking about shutting down the plane. Reporter terrorists yesterday talking about shooting down plane and the time was close to when it happened. Yes exactly and put on facebook a message about shutting down the plane. So its absolutely clear that its up to us to have responsibility on that. So why do you think they would shoot down a passenger aircraft . I dont know. You never know what is in the head of terrorists. There is nothing in the phone calls to suggest a motive . Its a tragedy but for the terrorists its a different thing. The separatists, the militants, the terrorists, depending on perspective they blame the Ukrainian Government, this was an attempt to take down the president putins plane and you know, to basically hostile action from ukraine to russia. How do you respond to that . Its ridiculous. Almost all the separatist leaders are actually russian. Some of them with Russian Special services. If theyre going to shoot putins plane, it would be the russian system i would say. They are saying Ukrainian Government used their own assets to attack the russian president. Thats why this happened. Firstly, we dont have such assets on the ground because we simply dont use any antiair missile capabilities there and we dont have such capabilities in donetsk. Theres no way our forces could be engaged in any way in this incident or any other incidents all around. Well try to reestablish our live signal from kiev, ukraine, but cnn is using its worldwide resources to cover this air tragedy. We have correspondents and analysts across the globe. More of their live reports as well just ahead. Also want to tell you about a this, shocking tapes released reportedly between prorussian militants moments after that missile brought down malaysian flight 17. The calls were released overnight by the secret service of ukraine. You will hear the slow realization that a passenger plane and not an enemy aircraft was shot down. Lets talk about this tape. Joining me is kevin ryan, former Defense Attache at the u. S. Embassy in moscow. Now at Harvards Kennedy school. Good morning, sir. Good morning. As you were listening to the tape, what went through your mind . Well, i speak russian, and i was struck by just as you said, the realization that was slowly coming over the report, reporter, the guy reporting from the field that what they had done was not what they intended to do. You know, i think there is an explanation for this, and well find it out soon. I think theres probably a technical reason for this, and i do agree, im glad that the u. S. Has been able to confirm what do you mean by a technical reason for this . So the buk or the sa11 system operates really out of three components. It has a command an control vehicle, a laumpler, which is what everybody is focused on but also a surveillance radar which nobody has mentioned. This launcher operated evidently in isolation, by itself, not connected to a command and control unit, and not connected to a surveillance radar. So the radar on the launcher is much shorter range and the crew probably did not have a lot of time between the time they first either with their eyes or through the smaller radar found this target. They didnt have time to consider the flight path, the trajectory, the altitude and so on. Had they had that time they probably would have realized that this was not a military aircraft and would not have fired at it, but as it was, this is all conjecture but i believe this fits the facts as we know them. Right. As it was, they saw it, they launched and only afterwards were they able to determine what they had shot down. I want to show people exactly what were talking about. This is the surface toair missile the sa11. It has the ability to take out a plane at 45,000 feet. It can launch missiles at four different targets. Two questions for you. Did it appear to you that the rebels knew how to use this weapon, and how did they get this weapon . Okay, these are very important questions, and they go to proving that it could have been the separatists or the rebels. First of all if youre looking at the picture youll see what looks like a gum drop on the front of the missile system. Thats for the acquisition radar, the shorter range radar. That communicates between the missile and the launcher, and it tracks the aircraft but it doesnt give you the minutes and minutes of advanced warning that a surveillance radar would have. Also, when youre looking at this picture, this is just the launcher and it does not include the command vehicle and the other radar xoecomponents so ju the system by itself, although its capable and highly technical, is not as capable as it would be in a complete system, and it would take weeks or months to train american crews on a similar system when we train our soldiers. So the guys who operated this system either had to be former air defense professionals or they had to be getting advice on the ground from air defense professionals as they were operating. Thats what i want to ask you about next, because cnn has found out from sources that a preliminary classified u. S. Intelligence analysis concluded that these missiles were shot from Eastern Ukraine, and they were fired by prorussian separatists, right, and this is a russianmade weapon. Right. Do you know if russia was training these prorussian separatists to use this kind of weapon . Yes, i do not know in particular about this crew or russian training of air defense personnel. I believe that russia has been offering training and assistance to the separatists that started in crimea, and its now spread into Eastern Ukraine. Whether or not they were actually on site and helping these separatists operate this system, i dont know. Mr. Putin, he was quick to express his sympathy but hes certainly not taking responsibility. What do you think his spin will ultimately be . Well, i think the excuse that ukraine is responsible for this because they are combating the separatists is a little bit like the devil made me do it excuse. Its not an excuse that we allow our own kids to offer to us when they do something wrong, and it certainly isnt worthy of a world leader. The spin that russia will continue to put on this is that they are in no way responsible for whats going on in Eastern Ukraine, and thats just blatantly not true. All right, general ryan, thank you so much for being here. I want to bring in our chief international correspondent, christiane amanpour, to talk more about the putin angle of this story, because were going to be hearing a lot more about that. So the russian president , christiane, he put in a phone call with the dutch Prime Minister and called for a thorough and unbiased investigation. Does he mean it . Reporter well, carol, you know, just going to what general ryan said, it is obvious that the russians will deny it as they have denying it, but everybody from the United States to the main european leaders believe that it is only president putin who has influence actual tangible actionable influence with these separate is rebels. So does he mean it . Were not sure. What we certainly do know is that this crime site is insecure, and therefore already we dont even know where the critical information, the flight recorders, the black boxes, whatever you want to say, is on the ground, we dont know where its been taken, has it been taken to objective, not impartial investigators . We dont know what has happened on the grouped. But more than that, european leaders all of whom are meeting in all sorts of various different emergency situations in their capitals for instance Prime Minister cameron had his National Security group meet today here in london, theyre all trying to figure out what to do next, because just before this happened on wednesday, here in europe, two things happened. Europeans again accused Vladimir Putin of not doing what he promised to do, and that is to stop the flow of materiel and fighters in to Eastern Ukraine through the shared border there and not pursuing the Peace Process that the new ukrainian president , petro poroshenko, has proffered and tried to put out there. At the same time, we also on wednesday, 24 hours before this tragedy, spoke to the Ukrainian Foreign minister, and he told me chapter and verse of the kinds of heavy weaponry that have been coming across with the russian knowledge over into Eastern Ukraine, tanks, heavy weaponry, and antiaircraft missiles. That is what he told me 24 hours before this terrible tragedy happened. So there is is a pattern. Three ukrainian flights, military and transport flights, were downed in this same region since june 14th. So there is a pattern that has been established. Nowers crying foul, who did it, who didnt do it . But objective investigation absolutely has to happen and that hopefully will lead to some more definitive analysis. Lets talk about the investigation. Supposedly these prorussian rebels have turned some of the recording devices from the crashed plane over to russia, and if Vladimir Putin is really serious about an objective investigation, shouldnt he turn over those tapes to the ntsb or whoever the investigating body is of this crash . Reporter as you say, whoever the investigating body is. Some are saying it has to be ukraine to do it, as you know, some ntsb people from the United States are going, but there is an International Organization as well that can actually take charge of this kind of thing or be a big part of it. Theres also the osce who are the russian approved and contributed plus all the europeans a part of that, and they also have a security brief and mandate as well, and theyre trying to get to that location. So yes, there are a lot of internationally approved organizations which can actually do the right thing here and try to do it, but heres whats also very, very complex, and weve seen this over the last several months of this crisis in ukraine and with crimea. There is a massive propaganda war going on right now, but most especially inside russia. As you know, Russian State Television and whats called russia today has been parroting a very Species Party line of propaganda ever since this crisis began many months ago and going into overdrive right now. One of the lead reporters for this channel has today resigned and said i am for the truth, and has been tweeting saying ever since this crisis began our mandate is its always ukraines fault. So this is not just something in the atmosphere. This is something that really affects russian Public Opinion and is really corrected from the top and this is another huge thing that has to be coped with and taken into account as they try to have an objective investigation. It is not an easy process. Christiane amanpour, thank you so much. Also this morning, the air space other Eastern Ukraine is shut down and Malaysian Airlines says the path used by flight 17, well they say it was used by other airlines on that day. The flight path taken by mh17 was approved by the International Civil aviation organizations and by the countries whose air space the route passed through. And International Air transportation association, iate, has also stated that their air space, the air travel was unrestricted. 15 of 16 airlines and associations of the asiapacific airlines fly this route over ukraine. Joining me now is cnn aviation correspondent richard quest. In listening to the tapes released by the ukrainian secret service, those rebels said on this tape, why was this plane flying over a war zone . Should the plane or any plane have been flying other that air space . Well, arguably not, but the ikeo, the International Body responsible, had not closed the air space and you know, and the ukrainians hadnt closed the air space above 32,000 feet. The ukrainian authorities had the responsibility for that air space. So when Malaysia Airlines filed its flight plan, said it wanted to fly that route, there was no reason why it should not have flown that route. What you have here is a situation, carol, where some are wanting to blame the car for being on the road, when the road was open, and that seems to me to be slightly back to front. Large parts of southern ukraine and crimea are closed, and are highly restricted at lower altitudes, but this plane was actually at a safer area. It was further north where there had been no restrictions of those sorts of levels and so i believe other planes were on those flight paths, and the real issue is why ikeo or the authorities didnt close it. You know, it just makes you worry, we live in a global economy. People are flying all over the place, right, so it just makes everybody worry about their safety in the air, even flying at 33,000 feet. Yes, as they should in this case. Absolutely. Im not going to sit here and defend what happened. It is absolutely abhorrent, because two things. The plane is flying on a legal air route at a correct altitude in civil aviation, and it gets brought down by illegal weapon fire, by who aever it is, we ar waiting for the final conclusion. That is the reality of the situation. What ikeo has to look at now is why, once those other airliners from the ukrainians, when aircraft had been brought down they didnt constituinstitute t closure they did yesterday. The issue is why was ukraine allowed to keep that air space open for as long as it did. Quickly on the question of the investigation, if i may, carol, just to brief you on that, ukraine says they will hold the investigation as the air Traffic Authority responsible for that area, where the crash or the incident happened. The black boxes, if they are in russia, properly speaking, should be transported back to ukraine where they will have to be sent somewhere else to be decoded but even if ukraine does have the investigation as its legally entitled, carol, there has to be external input into this, and i dont care whether its the brits, the french, the germans, the australians, the americans, a collection of them all, there is no way that one partisan party should or would be allowed to. The ntsb and fbi are on their way serving in an advisory role. What exactly does that mean, richard . Right, glad you asked. The authority to investigate legally is the ukrainians. The plane is a boeing 777. Therefore, the state of design and the state of manufacture is the United States, and the authority responsible for there is the ntsb. So the ntsb takes part in most, in fact if not all crashes involving aircraft. The level at which they will be involved will be determined by how sophisticated the ukrainians are, if they are very sophisticated, you wont need much help from other people. If theyre not so sophisticated, then obviously the british, the americans, the french, they will all be more involved. Ultimately, though, credibility and transparency will be the watch words for this investigation. Legally the responsibility rests with ukraine. Here is the thing, theres been none of that so far, right . You have all those people who died aboard that plane. Their bodies are still there. Whats being done with them . And that is the tragedy. That is the absolute, youve covered these things, you have to secure the area. You have to deal with the human remains, with the dignity that they deserve. You have to preserve the wreck annual for the investigation. So when the separatists say they now want a ceasefire so International Investigators can arrive, well, you have to sort of negotiate and the malaysian Prime Minister said that yesterday. Yes, there will have to be a negotiation to get those experts in. What i can tell you is its foolhearty for those people, however wellmeaning people to be tromping over this ground. Its a bio risk. Its a chemical risk. Its jagged metal. At all levels, carol, the experts need to get in and they need to secure and deal with this safely. All right, richard quest, well get back to you. Thank you so much. I want to bring in gianna walian, a friend of a passenger tgiani, welcome and thank you for being with me. No problem, carol. Thank you for having me. Im glad youre here. I want to thank you, yes go ahead. Tell us about your friend. My friend was supposed to go on a backpacking trip in asia, and he withent together with his family, his family is supposed to visit family in indonesia, and that was the plan for him, and, yes, i feel so sad it didnt go that way, because of the plane crash, of course, because of the missile, and we lost a good friend now. We are all sad. Actually im right now together with a good friend of mine and talking about it, thinking about it, and yeah, we dont know what to do. And your friends name was daryl, and he looks like a fun guy. Was he nervous at all about flying on Malaysian Airlines . No, never. I mean, because of the last crash of the plane that was lost, it was weird, and i was also thinking like, when this plane crashed i thought again a Malaysian Airline plane, why, and later i found out he was on it so then i was extra shocked because i didnt know he was on it. I felt so sad, and he was not scared to be on that plane, no. He was actually happy. To go on a trip. And i would suppose its even more shocking the way this plane came down. Exactly. Its something you cannot describe. Its something you couldnt imagine. I know if its like i have some friends who work with the jordan air company. Sometimes they see rockets in the sky and then they go back, but i wouldnt expect it to be at the ukraine site because all my friends we go a lot of times to asia, we flying the same route so its difficult for us and for all his friends to understand that this could happen. And i would suppose its even more difficult to deal with because nobody can get close to the crash scene to actually investigate or do anything about anything. Exactly. We are really scared what will happen with the black boxes, of course, and what will happen with the bodies, like richard said, and we wonder what will happen, will we see his body . Is his body there . His parents body, his sisters body . I think we need to wait for the investigation until we know more about it. What would you like to see happen . Who should take the lead . I think for me, i think a few countries should take the lead, like i know the u. S. And the russia dont go really well together, so maybe like some countries that are neutral Work Together as a team, like you see on national geographic, the airplane crash investigation, and a team that will find out the truth and of course it should be safety, so like the guy said, like a truce between separatists and the ukraine side would be handy very, too, and to tell you the truth, i dont really know. Im not a politician. Its frustrating. Gianni walian, thank you for sharing your story. I appreciate it. No problem. Youre very welcome. Still to come in the newsroom, israel launches a ground attack in gaza. What can be done if anything to prevent allout war . Well talk about that next. When a pro at any 2014 pga tour event sinks a holeinone, quicken loans will pay your mortgage for an entire year. That is how its done. 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The Gaza Health Ministry says at least 260 people have been killed and more than 2,000 injured since israel began its aerial Campaign Last week. Joining me now from gentlemen ru jerusalem is israeli spokesman mark rajev. Good morning. Prime minister net yew has says the military offensive could grow, some 18,000 reservists have been called up as part of a mission that includes air and naval support. So what does an expansion look like . Well, were prepared to expand if need be, ultimately to commit Ground Forces to combat operations inside gaza is not an easy decision, only taken after we looked at all the different options. There is also a price in not acting, in not moving to protect our people against the terrorist tunnels. Ultimately we didnt want to be here. There was a ceasefire proposal option on monday, a proposal put forward by the egyptians, adopted and supported by the United Nations and the arab league. We accepted that and held our fire. Hamas rejected it and kept shooting rockets, they rejected the proposal tuesday and again on wednesday. When the dip row mattic door was closed shut by has we had to option but to act military against the missiles and tunnels. What made you decide an air offensive was not enough . Well the trouble with the tunnels is theyre deep underground and they give the terrorists in zba zha the ability to penetrate inside israeli territory, to pop out of the ground at a place where we wouldnt expect and to cause murder and mayhem. Mass casualty attacks. We had an example yesterday where 13 Hamas Terrorists crossed israel with machine guns, explosives and bazookas. Its important we deal with the tunnels on the ground on the gaza side of the frontier. Is there hope there wont be as many civilian casualties with the ground offensive . There say plus and minus. Theres a danger weve committed our boys to combat and we do that not lightly. We understand we could be facing israeli casualties and were ready for that. We know hamas is a formidable opponent. They have built up over the last few years a formidable military machine and youve seen they can shoot rockets deep into the heart of israel into tel aviv and jerusalem. They target and we are going in with in no way underestimating the strength of our rival, but we believe with Ground Forces and special forces and other units on the ground there in gaza that we can deal with the threat, get rid of those tunnels and also take on those missiles that they keep shooting at our people. You know, theyve fired 1,500 rockets from gaza on our cities. It cant go on. It has to stop, and well make it stop. When will you know youve won . You know, victory for us is actually peace and quiet. Victory for us is the israeli civilian population not having to live in fear of an incoming terrorist rocket from gaza. Victory for us is just having a normal life, and when this is over, i think the hamas military machine will be significantly depleted, and the hamas leadership will understand that it cannot shoot rockets at israeli civilians impunity. Thank you so much, mark regev, an Israeli Government spokesman. I really appreciate you being with me this morning. Thank you. The u. N. Security council expected to hold an emergency meeting today on the mideast crisis, as a spokeman for the u. N. Agency for Palestinian Refugees urges restraint. Some 22,000 people are being sheltered by that agency in gaza city in northern gaza. One resident who has decided to stay put with his family rather than flee tells cnn they are, in his words, sitting ducks. I want to bring in yousef mumaier, executive director for the palestine center. Welcome, yousef. Thanks, good to be with you again. Its nice to have you here. Mark regev said israel is only looking for peace and quiet. It sounds so simple. It sounds so simple but of course, its nothing like that at all. The reality is that, in previous instances, there have been ceasefire agreements. During those ceasefire agreements israelis had peace and quiet. They continued to live in security and relative prosperity compared to palestinians and most of the rest of the region but palestinians in the gaza strip do not get to live in peace and quiet during the periods and thats the fundamental reason why this recurs. The israelis continue to kocarr out these operations. Even as the spokesperson you had on a moment ago described it. They refer to thisic icacallous mowing the lawn, the idiom they use to setting back the capacity of militants in the gaza strip, but the reality is, unless the underlying causes are addressed, those tunnels are going to be dug again. Those rockets are going to be built again. Unless you address the grievances of the people there and the siege and the occupation, this is something thats going to go on and on again. Knowing that doesnt a ceasefire have to come first . Hamas rejected an earlier ceasefire saying it didnt meet broader demands. What needs to happen . Ill go back to my original question, doesnt a ceasefire need to happen first before serious talk can take place . Well, yes and no. As you mentioned, there was a ceasefire attempt earlier this week and the week before that the palestinian side, the militants in gaza offered truce terms as well. Those were rejected which the israelis. The idea here is that there should be a ceasefire, but the ceasefire should actually end all forms of violence on both sides, but just because projectiles are it was hamas who violated the ceasefire. It wasnt israel. s thats just empirically untrue. If you look throughout the instances of ceasefires in the past it has routinely been the israelis im talking about this latest one. No, this latest incidence was provoked by a Massive Campaign of collective punishment by the israelis in the west bank targeting palestinians there en masse in response to what should have been instead a criminal investigation into the disappearance of three israeli teenagers. So thats where this escalation started, and i think that you owe it sir, let me interrupt and ask you, how does this end . How do you see this ending . Its very simple. There should be a ceasefire that ends violence on all sides, that includes an end to the heinous collective punishment of the civilian population in gaza. Look, fishermen off the coast of gaza should not be shot by the israeli navy while seeking to get their daily catch. Farmers should not be shot by israeli troops inside of gaza just when theyre trying to go about their daily lives. These are the things that happen on a regular basis, almost on a daily basis, even when there is a ceasefire and no projectiles being fired. So you know, we cant talk about a ceasefire when theres still a system of violence targeting the civilian population during the socalled ceasefire operiod. There has to be a genuine end to all forms of violence including the siege and occupation. Yousef munayyer thank you for joining me this morning. I appreciate it. Thank you. Still to come in the newsroom, the latest on the crash of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 as u. S. Intel jebs now points the finger at who is likely to blame for that missile attack. Well talk about that next. vo get ready fancy feast broths. Theyre irresistabowl. Completely unbelievabowl. Totally delectabowl. Real silky smooth or creamy broths. Everything shes been waiting for. Carefully crafted with real seafood, real veggies, and never any byproducts or fillers. Wow being a cat just got more enjoyabowl. Fancy feast broths. Wow served daily. President bill clinton knew one of the passengers on board flight 17. He was an aids researcher, and one of several on board the flight on their way to an International Aids Conference in sydney. Clinton spoke with cnns ana koren a short time ago, with president clinton in vietnam to discuss his foundation work. She joins us now so we can hear what he said. Good morning, ana. Reporter hi, carol. Yes as you say president clinton is here in vietnam as part of the clinton foundation, his charity. We spoke to him at an aids orphanage on the outskirts of hanoi. He said he was deeply saddened, devastated by what has happened in ukraine. He knew some of the people on board mh17, and this is what he had to say to us. Its awful. I mean, those people are, theyre really, in a way, martyrs to the cause that were going to australia to talk about, and i think all i can say about it now is what president obama, what our governments said. We need to wait to make any definitive statements until we know exactly what happened, but it was sickening, and i hope they will know and i hope they will know soon. Reporter carol, there were 108 people on board mh17 who were en route tos trail yoo to attend the 20ther is bat aids conference, held in melbourne starting on sunday. President clinton is due to give a speech on wednesday, and by all accounts this conference will go ahead in dedication really and recognition of the amazing work that these researchers, Health Workers and activists have been doing. Lets now listen to what president clinton had to say about their incredible body of work and the loss to the world. They were doing so much good. You know, this gathering we do this on a regular base, have these International Conferences and i try to go to all of them because im always so inspired by what other people are doing, and what we can learn from them, and so since i left office its been a regular part of my life kind of think being those people being knocked out of the sky, its pretty tough. So as you hear carol from president clinton, deeply saddened by what has taken place and really shocked that hell be attending this aids conference in melbourne, which will be attended by thousands of people and many of the famous faces, the worlds leading researchers in hiv aids will not be there. Anna coren reporting live from vietnam this morning. Commercial airliners are no longer flying in the air space where flight 17 was shot down. Ukraine has closed it indefinitely. Lets talk about that and more with mary schiavo, cnn aviation specialist and peter gohls, former ntsb managing director. Welcome to both of you. Good morning. Thank you. Mary, i want to start with you. Officials identified nearly everyone on board that plane except for four people. Initially it was thought some americans might be on board that plane. Why dont with he kn we know fa names of the passengers on board that flight . For the publics knowledge it depends upon notifying the family but for persons on the plane we are to know, there are agreements with ikeo and certainly its u. S. Law every passenger on board a plane has to be on the manifest and the manifest controls as to who is on, so they did know, theyre supposed to know, but they may have been waiting to notify the families. Gotcha. Peter, now i want to focus on the investigation itself. I know the ntsb and the fbi are on their way to kiev, ukraine, this morning. Theyre going to serve in an advisory role. What does that mean exactly . Lets look at a broader issue. It is absolutely unacceptable to the world that either the ukrainians or the russians take the lead on this investigation. Both of them have dirty hands in this terrible incident, and an independent Investigative Team ought to be appointed by the u. N. , we should ask the ukrainians and the russians and the separatists to do two things, transparency and protection of the Investigative Team. My own feeling is that the Dutch Safety Board ought to take the lead. They lost an enormous number of passengers. They are a skilled and honest broker. They ought to take the lead in this investigations. The ukrainians and the russians ought to step back, because their hands are dirty. Okay, so let me ask you a tough question, mary schiavo. Should the United States become involved because it doesnt exactly have a great relationship with russia, and that maybe might lead to some people not thinking the investigation is so transparent. Well, thats true, although as peter said, between the hostilities between the ukraine and russia, i mean the u. S. Isnt involved on the front lines of that, and i think the u. S. Has to be involved, because it is a boeing jetliner. Right. And its the principle to always have the manufacturer or assembler of the aircraft involved and that is part and parcel with the ntsb. Boeing would be a party regardless under annex 136 the ikeo rules. I think boeing has to be in there because given the past, looking at kal 00, the russian shootdown of the Korean Airlines plane they disputed that for years and only eight years after the fall of the Old Soviet Union did they even release the black box information. So yes to ntsb and absolutely for boeing. Okay, so peter, lets talk about the recording devices, because apparently, and this is a rumor, but the rebels have turned over some of the security recording devices to russia and also walked all over the crash site, right . Some parts of the planes have been looted by people. This is going to be a difficult investigation, right . Its going to be extraordinarily difficult, and the data recorder and the voice recorder are essential, as is the wreckage, to see exactly what kind of impact signatures were left by this missile. There will even be missile components that will be mixed in with the wreckage. The security of the site is absolutely essential, and if the data recorder and the voice recorder have been turned over to the russians, the russians should not tamper with them. They should not open them. They should turn it over to the International Authorities immediately. Their hands will be dirty, and the countries that fly in and out of russia, i believe peter king has got the right point. If the russians dont cooperate, if they stall on this, we ought to deny landing rights to russian aircraft and the ukrainians could face the same if they do not fully cooperate. All right, peter goelz, mary schiavo, many thanks. I just got word the american president , president obama, will make some remarks at 11 30 eastern time, thats about an hour and a half from now, and we suspect he will be speaking about this tragedy in ukraine. Ill be right back. [announcer] play closegood and close. Help keep teeth clean and breath fresh with beneful healthy smile snacks. With soft meaty centers and teeth cleaning texture,its dental that tastes so good. Beneful healthy smile food and snacks. Thank ythank you for defendiyour sacrifice. And thank you for your bravery. Test. If youre a current or former military member or their family, get an Auto Insurance quote and see why 92 of our members plan to stay for life. Im living the life of dreams. Im living the life of dreams, with good people all around me. Im living the life of dreams. No im living the life of dreams. Im feeling hopefully. Feeling quite hopefully, its right up here, turn right, turn right. 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Cnn has just learned that president obama will make remarks on the ukrainian situation, this malaysian plane that was shut down over Eastern Ukraine, the president will address that situation 11 30 eastern time. About an hour and a half from now, of course, when the president begins speaking, cnn will tape that for you live. Mr. Putin said he was sorry to president obama on the phone. Putin has not denied russian backed rebels shot it down but he does put the blame squarely on ukraine. He says there is no doubt that the country on whose territory that this happened bears responsibility. This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace in the country finishing military operations had not resume in the southeast of ukraine. Lets talk about that. Welcome. Jill, youve covered russia for such a long time. How can putin put the blame on ukraine and none of the blame on russia and prorussian rebels . In his logic, what he would say the Ukrainian Government is carrying out this terrorist operation in that region, and therefore if they would stop that terrorist operation things would return to normal, it would be peaceful and you wouldnt have the incidents like this. But what he is ignoring, of course, is that the Ukrainian Government legally has a right to carry out and maintain peace on its territory, and it believes at that it is facing a rebellion by separatists, therefore, they have to go in. Now, whether they are going in, lets say, militarily in a very hard way is another point, but the Ukrainian Government thinks that it has a right to carry this out. That said, maybe it would be good to have a cease fire right now, get some peace and get those investigators in there. Okay. So chris, if it can be proved actually, we know the weapon that was used was russian made, right . We know they were pro russian rebels who shot down this plane, if its proved that russia helped train these rebels, does that then force putin to change his tune . If you are asking me that question, i would say it will gradually force him to change his tune. Hes going to be very reluctant. The initial propaganda after this plane was shut down, was trying to suggest that the ukrainians shot it down. That there was some kind of ukrainian airplane that shot down the Malaysian Airliner. All kinds of false information was put out. Gradually, putin has had to dial back on that. He knows that americans have been watching ukraine from the satellites and they have a very clear idea of what happened by now. He knows that, so hes got to apologize, but put the blame on somebody else. He will weep doing that and saying somebody else is responsible. Nobody doubts that russia is behind the rebels in ukraine. It supports them. It lets heavy arms through those borders, including the ones that shot down this plane. These rebels returned the recording devices to Vladimir Putin, if thats true, shouldnt Vladimir Putin release those tapes . Well, number one, you have to prove that they did that. Theres a lot of murkyness right now, but yes, obviously, the best idea would be to turn those over to an International Team that would investigate and so that everybody on all sides with any interest in this would be out of the game. I was just checking some russian wires and coming from russian wires, but they say that the local authorities, the selfproclaimed donetsk peoples republic, say they have a team. They are looking for bodies. They have recovered about 70 and interestingly they say in essence we, the rebels in donetsk, can carry out the investigation because they have a laboratory. So you are already seeing complications. Dont forget that the rebels in that area do not recognize the Ukrainian Government, so internationally the Ukrainian Government actually, according to international law, should carry out the investigation, but you already have the complication of the rebels not recognizing the Ukrainian Government. So, chris, president obama is due to speak at 11 30 eastern time, about an hour and a half from now, and perhaps he will impose more sanctions on the russians because of this incident. Congressman peter king though had another idea. He said if russia is to blame in part for this, bears some responsibility, then we shouldnt allow russian planes to land in our airports in the United States. Does he have a good idea . Well, i know it would be complicate the lives of people who would be innocent who would be hurt by that. I realize there will be a push for increased sanctions. This is such a tragedy, that it may tilt the balance in europe where theres been a lot of fence straddling xing here in france, you have a multibillion contract to sell warships. And the french know its caused by russia. They dont doubt that. They just want the money. In fact, youve got a situation where after a tragedy like this its very hard for european politicians to keep eqif vating about how to react to this russian soft aggression against ukraine. Thanks for your insight. The next hour of cnn newsroom starts now. Happening now in the newsroom, two big breaking stories this morning. First, horror at 32,000 feet, a passenger plane shot down, blown out of the sky. Nearly 300 people on board, among them, women, children, and aids researchers. It was raining body parts. As new details emerge from the crash scene, outrage grows. Bring to justice all these bastards who committed this international crime. Who did it . Ukraine got ahold of these intercepted rebel communications. Well play the whole tape for you. Then. The United States will offer any assistance