Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight 20140723

The askcnntonight. We have a team of experts stand big to answer your questions. And with no sign of a ceasefire in gaza, the faa bans u. S. Flights to tel aviv, while former new york city mayor Michael Bloomberg fly theres tonight on El Al Airlines to demonstrate that he thinks its safe. Is the crash of flight 17 a game changer in how the u. S. Treats travel over war zones . Plus here at home, president barack obama takes a west coast fundraising trip which has his critics crying foul. This the right time for business as usual . Well get into all of that. Alisyn . Lets begin with the mystery in the middle of new york city. The Brooklyn Bridge someone of the busiest spots in one of the biggest cities in the world. Every day 120,000 motor vehicles, 4,000 pedestrians, and 2600 cyclists cross that bridge. Yet somehow none of them noticed someone replacing the american flags that fly over the bridge with white flags. Cnns poppy harlow joins us tonight. What do you know . This is an iconic landmark. This is a place where you would think you have the top security. Bottom line, there was a security lapse, around 3 30 in the morning, someone or a group of people replaced the iconic american flags with the white flags. Nypd didnt find out about it they tell us until 5 30 this morning when they were alerted by construction workers. We know a few things. We know that there is not cameras apparently that are nypd operated at least on this angle of the bridge that has been troubling to some. What we also know is they were all hands on deck. Counterterrorism was there. Their intel division, their Emergency Service division. I want to play you a little bit of what police said this afternoon. This was not connected to terrorism, but it has a lot of people worried about who could scale this bridge. Because this is a huge feat to be able to do this without apparently anyone noticing. Listen. At this time, it appears it has no particular nexus to terrorism or even politics. This may be somebodys art project or it may be an attempt at making some kind of statement. But at this point its not clear what that statement is. All right. So a local City Council Member here in new york city telling me how concerned he was about it. He saw it on his way to work, tweeted about it. Obviously then called nypd saying look, its flags this time. What could it be next time . That does beg the question, an nypd detective whom i know well told me, look, it does seem like there was a security lapse. Theyre saying there is a standard level of security at the bridge. Apparently that security failed. Perhaps more security is needed. There were also, interestingly, alisyn, we might have the photos, able to cover up the lights that shine from the top of the bridge on to the flag. They covered them with aluminum foil, and were told zip ties so that no one could see what was going on. No one is claiming responsibility. Police are scouring social media and certainly a lot of claims by witnesses and people claiming to have done this to fight out how this happened. So mysterious. Poppy harlow, thanks for explaining it to us. How there not be surveillance camera . S i thought they were every in new york. What poppy said about the lights, he believe theres must be some operational knowledge of the bridge. So theyre looking into that. Scary. Yeah, mystery. We want to turn out to the very latest on Malaysia Flight 17, the remains of Crash Victims arrived in kharkiv, ukraine today. And Nick Paton Walsh live with the very latest on that. You were there in kharkiv when the train carrying those bodies and the black boxes arrived, nick. Describe to what you call the ghostly silent arrival of this train. It was a sight that many people around the world have been waiting to see. For days, really. Finally this train, having left separatist held territories moving into the areas controlled by the ukrainian government, came to a Railway Station here in kharkiv next to a closed wall compound to which it was quickly taken. Ukrainian police, even a couple of military separatists. Inside that compound, the complex work getting down. Theyre having to take the bodies off the train slowly. This team of international experts. The majority of them here dutch. And they have, to as they say, delicately repackage them, put them in coffins. The first 50 now out of the five refrigerated wagons there. The first one and the second one having been opened so far. The first 50 bodies will be leaving tomorrow at 11 00 in the morning after a brief farewell ceremony here, flying to amsterdam where the task of identification and tests can actually begin. Don . Nick, is there still discrepancy as to how many bodies were on that train . That is a question that is going to take quite some time to answer. The reason being that the ukrainian officials a couple of days ago and the separatist and today a Malaysian Security official who traveled on the train with it all say about 282 bodies were on board. Thats boats that were more or less intact, plus 87 body parts. Now, that is not something, though, that the dutch investigators leading the International Effort really agree with at all. They believe according to a reliable source who saw the bodies get put on to the train there are about 200 on board that number could rise as they continue to open all five refrigerated wagons. But they are concerned it may not be all of the 298 passengers who were on board mh17. And that leads one very gruesome and troubling conclusion, that there could still be human remain out there in the crash site, an enormous area which may be hard to access. And thats just going increase the wait, the agony for those relatives waiting simply to bury their loved ones, to get some kind of closure from this tragedy. Well said. Nick paton walsh, thank you. The showdown with gaza is having worldwide repercussions. The faa banning u. S. Airlines from flying to or from Ben Gurion Airport. And european officials issuing a warning. This comes after rocket fired from gaza struck about a mile from ben gurions runways. Tonight Michael Bloomberg, the former mayor is heading to that airport on an el al flight in protest of that faa ban. Cnns Martin Savidge is live for us in jerusalem with more. Martin, what has the reaction there been to the closing of u. S. Flights at ben gurion . Well, alisyn, i think its Pretty Simple to say that they are angry, especially the Israeli Government here, because a number of reasons. First and foremost is just the fact that is a country connected to the outside world. And it needs those flights for business and for commerce. And now to have that all shut off as a result is a tremendous economic blow. Says a country that is hugely dominant in technology, and even though the Tourism Industry already had been shut down as a result of the fact that this conflict, business was still moving forward, and you need airplanes to arrive and to depart for that. El al, as you point out, is continuing to fly that is the Israeli National airline. It has always flown, regardless of what has been going on within or without of israel. But the fact that the u. S. Carrier, especially Major Airlines Like Delta Airlines and United Airlines have not said when they plan to restore their flights, they have said its indefinite, that is troubling to the Israeli Government, the Prime Minister, the transportation minister. They both appeal to the u. S. To say, look, you should restore the flights. It is safe at ben gurion. We should point out that hamas has been trying to hit that airport for some time. And they stated it publicly that was their intent. They issued a warning to airlines. So this is exactly the sort of thing the government feared would happen. Its become a real pr nightmare. Yeah, it sure sounds like it. Also, we know of course that secretary kerry is in egypt, trying to broker some sort of ceasefire. Do we know what reaction he is having, or if this is speeding up any ceasefire talks . Well, of course, you know, it has a negative impact on the ceasefire because its focusing the attention now away from sort of trying to stop the gunfire to lets stop the airplanes that is not what anyone wants to see. Focusing on the ceasefire is still vitally important. Israel maintains that of course if the ceasefire is agreed to, it will adhere to it. But it is still extremely skeptical that hamas would do that. They say that ceasefires have been reached before and broken before by hamas. So even though the rest of the world feels that maybe they are very close to some kind of solution, those that are actually here on the ground are not seeing that at all. Alisyn . All right, Martin Savidge, thank you so much for that update. Well check back later with you in the show. An israeli official says Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told secretary of state john kerry that there is no reason to suspend these flights to israel. Meanwhile, as we said, former new york city mayor Michael Bloomberg says he is flying to tel aviv tonight on el al to demonstrate that it is safe. Joining us now is paul hirshon. He is the spokesperson for the Israeli Foreign ministry. Mr. Hirshon, thank you so much for being here. The reason the faa shut down u. S. Flights to ben gurion is because a rocket strike landed a mile away from the airport. How can you say its safe for airlines to land there . Hi, thank you for having me. I think that what we have is a simple misunderstanding of the defense regime that exists here in israel. Youve heard a lot about the iron dome antimissile defense system. The iron dome is calibrated to ignore missiles that are headed for open areas. The airport is not included in that. So the fact that a missile lands in the area of the airport is simply because we have decided consciously to avoid it. Its 100 safe to come into israel, to leave israel. Were doing that all the time. And as you mentioned, michael bloom bergeson hber blo bloomberg is on his way. Youre saying its okay and passengers on flights shouldnt be concerned about that distance . Look, im not an expert in air aviation and navigation. But i can tell you that the iron dome system, the antiMissile System is calibrated to target certain missiles and to ignore certain missiles. Were not going to ignore any missiles that are headed for an area for a place that we dont want them to land. Well, listen, the Israeli Defense forces put out a press release today, and ill read to you what it says. They say today 87 rockets were fired at israel. 18 of them only were intercepted. 67 of them say they hit israel. Isnt it just prudent today, its only a 24hour ban, today, given what is going on the ground there, and that 67 missiles hit israel to stop flights . Well, thats not a decision for me to make. Thats a decision for the americans to make or airlines around the world to make. But the numbers that you present are correct. But thats only because those 67 were headed for open areas, for uninhabited areas. So the iron dome system is calibrated to ignore them. Its not because they got through the defense mechanism. Its because there is a conscious decision taken not to take them down. Mr. Hirschson, while we have you, mr. Kerry is in egypt working on a ceasefire. Do you know what the latest is . Well, weve got two things going in parallel at the moment there is a lot of conversation under way about a ceasefire, as you mention. Secretary kerry is in cairo. Ban kimoon, the secretary of the United Nations is here in israel there are a lot of conversations going. In parallel to this, the Israeli Military continues to pursue and to debreathe and degrade hamas military capabilities, not least because were seeing despite misunderstanding, decisions made about the airlines around the world flying into israel. And were chopping off their military abilities both in terms of the rockets and in terms of this underground network of terror tunnels that has surfaced in the last few days. The question is whether we can find a way to merge these two parts and to reach a diplomatic solution as opposed to a military solution. But in either event, we are committed to reaching a solution to this problem. Excellent. Good to hear. Paul hirschson live from tel aviv, thank you. When we come right back, flight 17 shot down over ukraine. U. S. Flights banned from Ben Gurion Airport. We safe in our skies . Were going to ask the experts, and were answering your questions. Make sure you tweet us using the askcnntonight. President obama criticized on a tour of the west coast. Critics ask is this a time for money making. [ male announcer ] if you cant stand the heat, get off the test track. Get the mercedesbenz youve been burning for at the summer event, going on now at your authorized mercedesbenz dealer. But hurry, offers end july 31st. Share your summer moments in your mercedesbenz with us. This is mike. His long race day starts with back pain. And a choice. Take 4 advil in a day which is 2 aleve. For all day relief. Start your engines really. So our business can be on at ts network for 175 dollars a month . Yup. All five of you for 175. Our clients need a lot of attention. Theres unlimited talk and text. Were working deals all day. You get 10 gigabytes of data to share. What about expansion potential . Add a line anytime for 15 bucks a month. Low dues. Great terms. Lets close. Introducing at t mobile share value plans. With our bestever pricing for business. Welcome back. Flight 17 is shot down, as you know, with no warning over a war zone in ukraine. The faa bans u. S. Flights to ben gurion in israel after rocket fire strikes about a mile away from the runways. Suddenly it seems passengers have a lot more to worry about than security on the plane than they used to. So are we safe in the skies . Joining us now to talk about it is cnns aviation correspondent richard quest. A lot to answer. It feels like things are more dangerous in International Travel than they were a week ago. I think there is more uncertainty. I wouldnt say theyre more dangerous. Id say there is more uncertainty in the world because what we discovered in the last week is that the existing rules for determining the safety of certain routes may have to be rethought. And what that means is airlines are in this very difficult decision of having to make a decision when really its the regulators and the governments. Ill give you a good example. Lets take tonight with ben gurion and tel aviv. So dealt tax, united, american basically say theyre not flying there before the faa came. In theyre three of the Largest Airlines in the world. And now look who else is not going. Lufthansa group which is swiss and german wings, and air canada, air france. When you get those airlines saying were not going, but you get your last guest saying its perfectly safe because of iron dome, the traveling public is entitled to say what the is real truth of the subject . And the airlines are entitled to say the system of determining that is isnt working. Here is an airline that at least u. S. Carriers have made that decision for americans, most of them, that they dont believe its safe to fly there. Yes. But thats a slight anomaly, because at the end of the day, if you still wanted to get to tel aviv you can go el al . No, no, no, not only that, you can still book the code share. All right. You can book the code share to europe on delta or united and then transfer to one of their code share partners. Maybe not after tomorrow when that closes for europeans as well. Its a real mess. What im hearing from aviation experts, what im hearing from airline ceos, they want clarity. They want a conference to sort it out. But who will sort it out . You heard what our last guest said. Okay, it was a mile away from the airport. No big deal. Had it been any closer, we should would have shot it down. Who is going to figure out whether or not its safe . At the moment, the rule say the governments icao rules say its the government who has to put out the notice to airmen. Thats what we saw with the u. S. Today. Thats going have to change there is going to have to be a rethink of that principle, because we cannot have a situation where malaysia flies over syria, while all the gulf carriers are going up and down iraq, where you have some going into tel aviv and others not going into tel aviv. It is a dogs breakfast. Hold that thought because i want to bring some people in here. I want to bring in the former director of security for Tel Aviv Ben Gurion airport and also attorney andrew hall. Thanks to both of you. Since were talk about ben gurion, raffy, i want to start with you. Israel is famous for having high security standards, particularly when it comes to aviation. Why are israelis pushing back on this ban and insisting that there arent any safety concerns here . Well, because i think that the decision to stop flying to israel was not a riskbased decision, because first of all, this situation already exists for the last day, a couple of weeks. Hamas have been trying to target Ben Gurion Airport unsuccessfully. And the reason for that is that they simply dont have the capability to hit Ben Gurion Airport for two reasons. One is that their rockets are not guided and are not specific enough to be able to target ben gurion. They can hardly target a city the size of tel aviv. And those that for the that actually end up on course to the target are actually intercepted by the iron dome. But rafi, when youre talking about a missile and an airport and airplane a mile away is really not that far. Its not that far. So you can understand the concern. No. I think that we are all impressed by the events in ukraine and see the volume of the tragedy there. And i already heard just a couple of minutes ago the people binding the two situations together, trying to draw a common conclusion. And that is i think part of the problem, that we are trying to make ends meet when they come. The situation in ukraine is that people with the intentions to take down aircraft had a very sophisticated antiaircraft missile and were able toe use it while in israel, we have unsophisticated weapon that is unable to hit the right target. But youre asking people to take your word for it. I mean, quite frankly, if i were to fly or be on an airplane, i probably wouldnt fly into that area, regardless of what israel said, even with iron dome. Richard quest, you completely disagree with that, right . I disagree with it in the sense that you rafi says you cant bring mh17 and this together. I think absolutely you can. The risks, sir, may be different, and the Risk Assessment may be different. But its putting the traveling public and the airlines in exactly the same position. I want to get andrew in here, because andrew, youre an attorney. Is this a prudent response from airline s that are probably for good reasons are concerned about flying into war zones right now . Well, its a prudent response. But real issue as far as im concerned is what is what is going on. What were really talking about here are acts of terrorism. In point of fact, they are acts of statesponsored terrorism. Because in every instance, all of these acts are sponsored by a larger state that provides munitions and ability to conduct this thing. So if youre look at the bigger picture, whats what we have is we have state actors that are subsidizing terrorism, that are causing the loss of life. And by terminating flights to various airports, what is happening is the state sponsors are achieving what they want, which is a political agenda through the loss of life. Thats unacceptable. Thats a violation of international law. And it needs to be enforced as such. Who exactly do you sue in this case . In which one, in israel or mh17. What do you sue in the case for the families, for the flight going down . Well, i believe that is essentially the use of sovietsupplied missiles, russiansupplied missiles by a soviet group that in order to cleave off the ukraine. In my judgment, thats exactly what is going on. And we seem to ignore the major issue which is an airplane was shot down. 300 lives were lost, and they were done in order to support a political agenda which is a violation of international law. It is an act of statesponsored terrorism. It is wrong. It has to stop. Thank you very much, rafi ron, andrew hall. Appreciate that alisyn . And don, well be exploring whether or not it is terrorism coming up in a segment. So stick around for that. Meanwhile, u. S. Intelligence makes crucial assessments about the movement of Russian Military equipment into ukraine and the shooting down of flight 17. Thats next, along with this question, is putin somehow getting a bad rap . You heard me. The experts have some thoughts on that. So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . 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See your authorized dealer for an incredible offer on the exhilarating c250 sport sedan. But hurry, offers end july 31st. Share your summer moments in your mercedesbenz with us. Then boom. What happened . Stress, fun, bad habits kids, now what . Lets build a new, smarter bed using the dualair chambers to sense your movement, heartbeat, breathing. Introducing the sleep number bed with sleepiqtm technology. It tracks your sleep and tells you how to adjust for a good, better and an awesome night. The difference . Try adjusting up or down. Youll know cuz sleep iq™ tells you. Only at a sleep number store, mattresses with sleepiq start at just 999. 98. Know better sleep with sleep number. Welcome back, everyone. U. S. Intelligence Officials Say russia is still moving equipment into ukraine including as many as 20 vehicles today. Look at Satellite Photos of russian Training Facilities inside of rostov near the board were ukraine. On the left photo was shot in june and shows an empty facility. But the right photo of the same area was shot yesterday. And you can see what u. S. Intel calls a buildup. And training in how to use surfacetoair missile at this facility. And at an intelligence briefing today, u. S. Officials said they determined that prorussian rebels shot down flight 17. But they do not know exactly who fired the missile, who gave the order, or if Russian Military personnel were on the scene. Still, many officials and Media Outlets have put the blame squarely on Vladimir Putin. So lets analyze the evidence. So far with our experts, Jonathan Sanders is an associate professor at Stony Brooke University school of journalism, and bob bear is Cnn National Security analyst and former cia officer. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. Lets talk about the evidence so far that has allowed the u. S. To build this case against putin. U. S. Official says they are certain that this sa2 missile was provided by russia, yet, bob, let me start with you, we also ukraine has had a number of these for many years and ukrainians have been trained on them. Why are we so certain it was putin who provided this one . I think the best evidence is the satellite photography. When you look at this stuff, you can actually track each tail, each launcher. You can figure out where it started in russia, how it moved across the border, where it was positioned in the ukraine. Theyve also got awacs coverage of this area and they have satellite coverage pretty much around the clock. They can see the launch. And once you string all this evidence together, its clear, and from what im hearing its absolutely 90 certain that this Missile System came from russia and was fired from Eastern Ukraine. No doubt from dissonance. I dont think were ever going to find out who actually pulled the trigger because the crew is probably fled to russia now, and putin is not about to turn them over to any international body. Jonathan, lets talk about another piece of evidence that u. S. Officials say they have relied upon, and these intercepted communications of allegedly these prorussian rebels. Weve had some of our cnn experts on that say some of this sounds a little too convenient to them. It sounds as though its possibly manufactured. Lets listen in and see what you think. [ speaking Foreign Language ] i dont know if i dont know if you could read i dont know if you could read those. I dont need to read them. I can hear the russian. And, you know, it could be faked, but listen, hold on, hold on, john, let me just read to people in case they couldnt read their screen. Here is what that intercept says. We have a request for the black boxes from people very high above in high places. I mean people from moscow. You must not these must not come into someone elses hands. It sounds a little bit like a bad b movie. Are we sure that everything the ukrainians are feeding is accurate . No, of course not. And we wouldnt expect it. And there are things that are being faked. And there is a 10 chance that this is something we dont know about. But we can take putins very words and look at them. He may be a propagandist. He may be a liar. He may be a coldblooded reptilian machiavelliist. Still, in propaganda there is truth. He said just the other day that the fact that the ukraines were acting, sending troops into Eastern Ukraine is what really caused this. Now thats probably true. What we know about putin is he is an extremely loyal guy. He set up some rebels to ferment trouble there, and there were people who wanted to do it on their own. And suddenly, the ukrainian state air force and tanks come rolling in. Theyre bombing cities in the eastern part of ukraine. And theyre about to roll his guys. So he says wait a minute, were going to get back at this. And kind of like when the Rolling Stones hired hells angels to do security at altamont, things got out of control. He didnt want this shootdown. But did he order it . No. Okay, so it sounds like you think in some ways putin is getting a bad rap here. Oh, i dont think he is getting a bad rap because putin is not a good guy. But he is doing this for what he believes is his own countrys position and good will. And putin has decided a couple of years ago to make himself more popular after the unrest at home, after the middle classes, the yummies, the young upwardly mobile muscovites went on demonstration against him by playing against the big evil monster, the united states. By stirring up nationalism. And its worked. Yes, it has worked. He is terribly effective. And the Public Opinion polls back at home show something that 80 support what putin has done. The rebels handed over the black boxes when they found them. The u. S. Officials didnt know they were going do that. After woefully a long time, they have begun to send the bodies back home. And he is allowing International Investigators into or i should say the rebels are allowing International Investigators into the crime scene. So what does that tell you . Does that mean that putin is backing off a little bit . He is backing off. But he is not exactly contrite. He should have done this from day one, the quickest way in was coming through russia International Investigators. He has not provided any intelligence, and he is not going to. I used to work with russian intelligence for years and they never gave us anything, and theyre not going to give us Something Like this, which is a crime. He is going to drag his feet as long as he can until we all go off the air and stop talking about it, because right now the europeans are not lifting a finger against russia, namely going after the energy sector. So he hasnt really paid a price. And the fact that the fighting is continuing and he is send mortgage weapons into the Eastern Ukraine, he is going to continue as is and pay i dont think in the end very much for this. Bob baer, jonathan sander, thanks so much for the information coming in. Great to talk to you. Were going to continue on and talk more about the tensions that are rising in russia between the west and the death toll rising and the violence between israel and hamas. So where is president obama . He is out fundraising. Is that a good idea . Were going to debate that, next. Hey. Im ted and this is rudy. Say hi rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] id do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. Thats why im so excited about these new milkbone brushing chews. Whoa, im not the only one. Its a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. Clinically proven as effective as brushing. Ok, here you go. Have you ever seen a dog brush his own teeth . 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Jim, a lot of concern about the optics here with everything that is going on around the world, the president will spend 2 next three days fundraising on the west coast. What gives here . Well, thats right, don. And by the way, he has already wrapped up his fundraisers in seattle tonight. Next off he is off core doaners in San Francisco and next to los angeles. By tend of this week, the president will have been to 11 fundraisers this month. Thats a pace of nearly one every other day. And thats while all of these crises have been flaring up from the border emergency a couple of weeks ago, a that is still going on. The plane crash in ukraine and the violence in gaza. The white house says the president is still receiving updates from his National Security team and making phone calls with world leaders. Earlier tonight, for example, he spoke with the dutch Prime Minister about the plane crash in ukraine. But white house is sensitive to how all of this is perceived. That is why aides to the president pulled a plug on an appearance. The white house was exploring to have the president do on the jimmy kimmel show. White House Press Secretary josh earnest acknowledged to me in the press briefing earlier today that kind of booking would nod send the right message. Here is what he had to say. We ultimately elected not have the president do that interview over the course of this trip. And that is at least in part related to the challenges of doing a comedy show in the midst of some of these other more serious matters that the president is dealing with in the international scenes. And earnest hinted a few times today, don, that the president may cut short this fundraising trip and head back to washington if events warrant. But you used that word optics. Its one of the words people use here in washington. The rest of the country dont like very much. But the white house is certainly minding the optics tonight, don. All right. Thank you very much, jim acosta. Appreciate that and the interesting thing, alisyn is democrats probably wont complain. He is the lead over the democratic party. As you know, of course, president obamas critics say this is no time for fundraising given all that is going on in the world. Are they right . Lets debate it. Joining is marc lamont hill. Great to have all you have with us. Marc. Let me start with you. A lot going on in the world. Tonight the perfect time for a fundraising . Its not the perfect time for a fundraising dinner. But i think we have to get past the notion that the president or anyone else cant walk and chew gum at the same time. He was on air force one today talking to the netherlands Prime Minister. He made to it the embassy today. Was able to talk and discuss and get security briefs all around the world wherever he is. I think its possible for the president to do both. And thursday was a bad day for the president. Bad optics attached to that continuing his trek in the midst of a disaster and a crisis. But since then he has had a tough message for leaders. He has kept his agenda moving. Marc, marc, marc, should he be doing this . Because the reason i ask you, you remember the gulf shot of president bush. Now watch this drive. He got so much guff for that. As a matter of political strategy, its awful. But i dont think its intensifying the crisis in gaza. I dont think its making matters worse at the border. If were talking about reallife outcomes, i dont think it matters. But yes, it looks bad for politics. Elise, why is jimmy kimmel bad but 25,000 dinner in seattle good . Thats true. I mean, the jimmy kimmel appearance would have shown the president making light of certain current events, certainly not the tragedies weve seen in recent days. But it would have shown the president being jovial with mr. Kimmel. And the white house clearly thought, and i congratulate josh earnest. Listen, we realize it wasnt the right tone to be strike. They know that the president needs to be turning and helping to shape the national mood. It wasnt the right move for the white house. Fundraising is a political routine. And anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to score political points. All of these critics who say that fundraising should cease in times of certain crises, theyre just not living in reality. All the republicans are fundraising all the time as well. Okay, okay. So kevin, as long as the president is not laughing tonight, then its okay. No. Look, i agree with marc. Its a mistake. I think the president has to be very clear about what his priorities are. And i think thats one of the things that is very unique about the presidency is that the optics really do matter. Not only does it matter to our enemies, but it also matters to our allies on where our priorities lie. So i do understand and elise is right there. Is this understanding that while the president is also a campaigner in chief, that he is the titular head of the party and fundraising is part of his role. He is the commander in chief. And what what is most important now and at the heart of this criticism is that the president s role as campaigner in chief has seemed to supersede right now or replace his role as commander in chief. And he has three fundraisers, but he doesnt have i got your point. I got your point. Folks up on capitol hill. I got your point. The biggest issues they care about. I just wanted to finish my point. I got your point, i got your point, kevin. But listen. A mistake to what end . The president is not running again. The democrats certainly need the money. And if its all about optics, you know, the Obama Administration may go listen, people are going to criticize us no matter what. We might as well get out there. Thats exactly right. Thats exactly right. I think the white house has calculated that. What is most important for them in the 2014 midterms is that they have the money to run against republicans who are also going to be well funded. The one thing that really drives a lot of midterm sentiments is the president s Approval Rating. The reason the president s Approval Rating is hurt right now is so Many Americans feel he is disengage order he is incompetent on handling some of the big challenges facing the country right i know. So that midterm Approval Rating might not be enough money there to fix it. Elise, very quickly, is there anyone else who could have stepped in for the president . Perhaps the first lady . Could he have sent a surrogate and stayed back at the white house . Its possible he could have, but he is still the strongest fundraiser in the party. So thats what he is doing tonight. I think its very interesting we get caught up in this stuff at the moment. What was herbert hoovers Approval Rating . Nobody remembers are. There is no doubt the doufng flight 17 is tragic, but is it terrorism . Were going to take a look into that next. Avo waves dont care what age you are. Take them on the way you always have. Live healthy and take one a day mens 50 . A complete multivitamin with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. Age . Who cares. When folks think about wthey think salmon and energy. But the energy bp produces up here creates Something Else as well jobs all over america. Engineering and innovation jobs. Advanced Safety Systems technology. Shipping and manufacturing. Across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. When we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. Thats not a coincidence. Its one more part of our commitment to america. Crestor lowered bad cholesterol in its a fact. Highrisk patients more than lipitor. Bad cholesterol. Youre going down yeah lowering cholesterol is a big deal, especially if you have high cholesterol plus any of these risk factors, because you could be at increased risk for plaque buildup in your arteries over time. So, when diet and exercise arent enough to lower cholesterol, adding crestor can help. Im down with crestor crestor is not right for everyone, like people with Liver Disease or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. Tell your doctor about other medicines youre taking. Call your doctor right away if you have muscle pain or weakness, feel unusually tired; have loss of appetite, upper belly pain, dark urine or yellowing of skin or eyes. These could be signs of rare but serious side effects. Are you down with crestor . Ask your doctor if crestor could help you. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. All right. Welcome back. The tragedy of Malaysia Airlines flight 17, some people are calling it an accident in the confusion of a war zone. Others say it is terrorism. Were back with marc lamont hill, Elise Viebeck and kevin madden. Mark, the president has called this a global tragedy, but he hasnt referred to it as terrorism. 300 innocent civilians shot out of the sky. It is terrorism . I would argue that its terrorism, and that russia respond sponsored terrorism. The defense minister in the uk Michael Fallon today declared that russia was sponsoring terrorism. I think that its important to make that declaration. But its a fuzzy declaration. Terrorism means very Different Things to different nation states. For example, Vladimir Putin himself would say this isnt terrorism at the same time that he would agree with assad and syria that anybody who opposes the Syrian Government is a terrorist. I think one mans terrorist is another mans rebel. We have to be very careful with that. But the bigger issue is not whether we label people terrorists which is just about bringing international condemnation, more important is the sanctions. Treating someone like a terrorist. Kevin, your response. Do you think the president should be calling this an act of terrorism . Well, look. Its tough. I think there are a lot of experts that are going to have to take a look at that. I would defer to those experts. I think one of the important distinctions and the reason that folks are being very careful about it is because that designation would affect how state department and the Defense Department makes decisions that are based on existing existing american policies. So its going to be an important question going forward. Elise we have here the fbis official definition of terrorism. We can look at it to see if this fits. It says its a violent or dangerous act to human life that violate federal and state law. Okay, check that fits. Intimidates a civilian pop lace or influences policy of government. Okay. Seems to fit there. And occurs outside territorial jurisdiction of the u. S. We have obviously paraphrased some of that. But it seems as though by our domestic definition it is terrorism. What do you think about how the president has handled the verbiage thus far . I actually wouldnt call it terrorism myself because i almost think that gives these russianbacked rebels too much credit. It doesnt seem like they actually preplanned this attack as a way to intimidate people around the world. It seemed like they were drunk and rowdy and reckless and dangerous and they happened to do it as an accident. Thats what u. S. Intelligence has shown and thats what the white house said. Its not to downgrade what happened here which is a terrible tragedy, as obama has said. But calling it an act of terrorism i think confuses the definition a little bit. Marc, thats a good point. If its an accident it is a terrorism . I think it is. The definition of terrorism has become more robust in the last few decades. The idea of calling it terrorism, is it not terrorism, its really an attempt to criticize the president for not being tough enough oh, he wont even call them terrorist and takes stuff from benghazi and moving backwards. Thats the danger of this. Again, its not about what we label these men and women who did this. Its about how we treat them. Well need to respond again through international sanction. Thats far nor important than the actual label terrorist. Fbis definition of terrorism, a whole lot of things would satisfy the condition for terrorism choosing the u. S. Drone attacks abroad. If were going to start throwing that around we have to be willing for it to boomerang back. Great discussion, guys. Thanks so much for weighing in. Elise, kevin, marc, great seeing you. When we come back, news from the former mayor of new york city and also president clinton, when we come right back. Nd of adventure awaits. The days are longer, and the breeze feels a little sweeter. And, thanks to volvo, ill pay nothing for repairs or maintenance for 5 years, nothing. They even cover my first months payment. So, ill be happy wherever the summer takes me. The wonder of summer event. The 2015 volvo s60 sedan with complimentary first months payment. Starting at 319 a month. Cnn tonight. Tomorrow the stories you will be talking about tomorrow. Outrage in new york city where a funeral will be held tomorrow for the man who died in Police Custody after allegedly being put in a chokehold by an officer. The arrest of eric garner was caught on video, which has gone viral now. And new york citys Police Commissioner today ordered what he called a top to bottom review of the departments training procedures, specifically in the use of force. Bill bratton said also he revealed that the fbi is monitoring this incident, and he anticipates the Justice Department may open its own civil rights investigation. So we will have a full report ahead in our next hour. This is cnn breaking news. Good evening, everyone. Its top of the hour. This is cnn tonight. Im don lemon. Im alisyn camerota. Thank you so much for joining us here in new york. Police are trying to find out who replaced the american flags on the Brooklyn Bridge with two white flags, and why they the did it. So don, the one thing we can say for sure is that security at one of americas most famous landmarks is not what we all thought it was. Meanwhile, its been five days since Malaysia Flight 17 was shot out of the sky killing everyone on board. We any closer to knowing what happened and who is to blame . We care what you think about all of this. Make sure you tweet us using the askcnntonight. We have a panel of experts, a team of experts stand big to answer all of your questions this evening. Also, no sign of a ceasefire in gaza, the showdown between israel and hamas turning to a new front, and that is a media war . Plus here at home, a man apparently held in a chokehold by new York City Police dies. And the whole thing is caught on tape. Well get into that little bit later on this evening. Okay. So lets get right to the mysterious white flags on the Brooklyn Bridge. This is one of the busiest spots in all of new york city, yet it seems nobody noticed someone replacing the american flags that fly over the bridge with white flags. Cnns poppy harlow joins us live tonight. Tell us what happened, poppy. Hey, good evening, guys. I mean, it is just absolutely bizarre, and its really, frankly, unsettling, because this is iconic. This is a hand mark around the world. Its frankly been a target for terrorism in the past. This is not terrorismrelated. Lets be clear. But police had no idea and still have no idea how these white flags were placed, those american flags on top of the bridge. What they do know is it happened some time in the middle of the night. Construction workers are the ones that found out about it when they arrived to do their work. They told the police antiterror squad came along with the Emergency Service unit, their intel operations to try to get to the bottom of it. Theyre still trying to figure it out. What is really clear and important here, as you guys have been talking about is the fact that this is a security lapse. An nypd detective who has been with the department for a long time told me that much this afternoon saying we have standard protocol. Clearly that did not work here. What are they going to do to change that . They havent said yet. What we do know, if we can show you some of these pictures, how odd it is how this happened. Apparently a group of people waked walk aid cross the bridge in the middle of the night. They covered the lights with aluminum foil and zip ties so no one could see what was going on and then replaced the flags. And frankly, no one knows where the original flags are at this point in time. People im talking to are unsettled. Theyre saying all right, just like a City Council Told me, its flags this time. What could it be next time. It scarce them. And also, its important to make the point that nypd is openly saying look, we dont operate cameras at that point on the bridge. I think we all thought, alisyn, as you said last hour, we all thought that there were cameras everywhere. There are a lot of them. But nypd did not have their own cameras on this, this time. And we all hope that this is a wakeup call. And now they install cameras. Right. On the Brooklyn Bridge there. Pop par harlow, thank you so much for that yate there. Meanwhile, breaking news involving the former mayor of new york city. And thats Michael Bloomberg. He is at jfk airport about to fly to tel aviv to protest the faas ban on u. S. Airlines flying to Ben Gurion Airport. He was there just moments ago, and here is what he had to say. Sure, ill take the flight. Its safe and its efficient. And its a great way to travel. And el al is a great airlines waefnl. And we have a lot of American Airlines that are great too. I just want all to be able to fly around the world and land safely in peace. What are you trying to prove by going there today . Im not trying to prove anything. Im just trying to show that its safe and a great place to visit. And israel has a right to defend its people, and theyre doing exactly what they should do. Much more on the former mayors comments coming up a little bit later on here on cnn. Meantime, the other developing news. We want to turn to the latest on Malaysia Flight 17. U. S. Official says they havent been able to determine exactly who what fired the missile that brought down that plane. But a top ukrainian official says he knows. And cnns kyung lah live in kiev with the very latest on this for us. Kyung, u. S. Intelligence says it is unclear how much of a role russia played. You were told today by the ukrainian director of information that a russian officer fired the missile that downed mh17. What did he tell you . What he is essentially saying is that russia is to blame here. He is taking a very loud and bold step closer to Vladimir Putin. What we have heard throughout this investigation is that it was prorussian rebels who were train order perhaps financed by russia. What the Intelligence Agency is saying is that it is a russian officer who actually had his finger on the launch switch. Here is what he told us. The message you have is you take the flight. Sure id take the flight. Its safe and its efficient. The mayor Michael Bloomberg, the former mayor of new york city at jfk just a short time ago. But again, if you can just tell us, and well try to see if we can get that for you, especially what he said . What he is basically saying is that it is based on his intelligence not somebody who is somebody who is simply at arms length from the kremlin. What he is saying is that there is no way anyone other than a russian officer would have the appropriate training to handle this type of device. This is a type of missile that requires a certain amount of military intelligence. So he is saying this is not just a band of guerrillas operating out there who could have launched this. It had to have been russia. Now as you mentioned, don, american intelligence is countering that, saying that the evidence so far is inconclusive. Ukraine, though saying they believe they know who is to blame here. Russia is saying this is all propaganda and simply made up. Kyung, im going to read the verbatim from your university. You believe that was a russian . Absolutely, a russian trained spy chief . A russian trained well equipped welltrained officer. Kyung, who pushed that button. And do you think that it was do you think at this point and he says deliberately. That was the interview. So many unanswered questions, mainly about the number of bodies recovered from the site. What do we know than . This is really an agonizing part of the story. And its you know, you just feel for the families. Who we have heard throughout this in the last 24 hours is that a total of 282 bodies had been recovered from the site, that they had been transferred on to these refrigerated train cars, and that the train cars were on the move. They have landed in a city that is ukrainiancontrolled. But now were hearing that its not 282 bodies. Dutch officials are saying they have only counted about 200. So where are all the other bodies . At this point, that number is inconclusive. There may be more than 200. But until they open up all the train cars and start pulling the remains out, theyre not entirely sure. What we do know is its morning here in kiev, don. And at least 50 of the bodies are expected to be loaded on to planes and they will head to amsterdam. It could take some time for all of these remains to be identified. Of course, the families there are waiting. Don . All right, thank you very much, kyung lah. Appreciate that. All right, don. As you know, weve been asking viewers to tweet your questions tonight about flight 17. We have a team of experts to answer your questions. Joining us now is david soucie, cnns safety analyst and author of why planes crash. Mary schiavo, now an attorney for victims of transportation accidents. Also aviation attorney steven marks. Great to have all of you. We have some intriguing questions that hopefully you all can answer for us. So mary, lets start with you. We have a question from jeffrey, who asks, a soldier named igor claimed they shot down the plane. So why arent we going after him for questioning . The question is will investigators ever be able to actually question the rebels, mary . I think that they will. And i take that from having worked on pan am 103 and all four of the planes on 9 11. It will take a long time, first and foremost, of course. That will look to the airline to be responsible for the passengers. But as time goes on, they will question the people. It will take a while. There is informants. Pan am 103, there were 15,000 interviews. In 9 11, we took 153 depositions. And eventually i think we uncovered pretty much the fax. They will get them. Its just going to take a while. All right, david soucie, this question is for you. Its from ron. Its a good one. He says exactly how did that rocket get launched . Manually or Computer Generated . Plus is accuracy 100 . To the best of your knowledge, does someone actively have to shoot to use this rocket . They have to launch it, right . Well, in speaking with colonel francona earlier today, i got an education on missiles that i hadnt had before. So he was explaining to me how they worked. And as far as launching the missile, there is a screen that youre looking at. Its a radar. And on that radar you basically have just a dot. Its a moving dot. And that dot can be honed in on. And once its honed in on, the radar signal from that aircraft is coming down cone shape. So when the missile is actually launched, it is honed in on that particular aircraft. Its not like it just missed the aircraft and went off and hit another aircraft. So it is definitely honing in on that. And the radar signal that is coming back down as a cone shape that comes back from the aircraft. So the missile takes off and it goes. Fit senses one side or the other, in other words, it starts losing the radar signal, it will change its position and come back again and again and again and wind its way basically to where its 150 meters from the aircraft. At this point it deploys a large scattering of shrapnel, and that shrapnel is disabling to the aircraft. Its not like a single hit that explodes in the air like you would see other types of missiles. This actually disables the aircraft by tearing into it. Okay, steven. The next tweet is for you. If russia is responsible for shooting down mh17, then what . I guess the question is financially, would they be responsible to the families . I think the easiest thing for the families and its contractual liability under the treat that montreal governed the air carriers liability. And for most part the air carrier and their insurers are going to be responsible for paying the victims as they have in almost every major air tragedy, including 103 and the 9 11 incidents. So i think its unlikely. It will be a very difficult and long task to go after the russian government. I think it will be a very difficult jurisdictionally and otherwise to prove a case against russia. But in any event, the people will get fair compensation, as much as it can be. Theyll never be properly compensated. But under the convention. That will be able to recover. Mary, donn has a question for you. Why didnt Malaysian Airlines try to avoid hostile airspace in conflict zone like other airlines are required . They were actually, though, mary, they were flying above the aye area they were supposed to about flying. They were at 33,000 feet, right . Right game. Is a great question because the question brings out the difference before between what is allowed by the government and what the airlines could do on their own. Government regulations and the clearances for your airspace and the government warnings are a bare minimum that you have to comply with those to be able to get into the air. But the airline wants to do something more to have an additional measure of safety, for example, malaysia air, they asked for the flight level 35,000. Air Traffic Control said no, 33. They could have said you know what . Were going to take a different route. But they didnt. They accepted 33. Thats what we allow. We allow businesses to make decision as long as they comply with the bare minimum federal regs. Airlines can choose to do more to have a higher level of safety or a higher level of security. So there is choice in business. That is fascinating. Mary, david, steven, thanks so much. These guys no everything. They can answer any question. I know they can. When it comes to aviation. Its amazing. I dont think it has to be aviation. I actually believe they could answer any question. Thank you so much. So when we come back, the battle between israel and hamas spreads to a new front. Its the media war. Both sides battling to win hearts and minds around the world. And later, a new york city man dies in Police Custody, patiently in a chokehold. Well talk about the latest on that. Awful. Is as easy as it gets. Wouldnt it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters and even piano tuners were just as simple . Thanks to angies list, now it is. Start shopping online from a list of toprated providers. Visit angieslist. Com today. That its given me time toabout reflect on some of lifeseen biggest questions. Like, if you could save hundreds on Car Insurance by making one simple call, why wouldnt you make that call . See, the only thing i can think of is that you cant get any. Bars. Ah, thats better. Its a beautiful view. I wonder if i can see mt. Rushmore from here. Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. Hi, Credit Report site andour i have a problem. 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So factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria . Even if youre healthy and active. Phillips Digestive Health support is a duoprobiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. Im doubly impressed phillips Digestive Health. A daily probiotic. Welcome back, everyone. Breaking news. Two Israeli Soldiers have been killed in combat in gaza today, bringing to 29 the number of idf troops killed since the israeli incursion into gaza. The idea now 635 palestinians have been killed. Cnns Martin Savidge live for us in jerusalem now. Martin, hello to you. For the First Time Since 1991, the faa has banned u. S. Airlines from flying to or from israels Ben Gurion Airport for up to 24 hours. What is the reaction there . The reaction of the Israeli Government, and i think of many people in israel is that they are one, surprised, and two, angered by what has happened on a number of different levels. First and foremost, its going to have a huge economic impact. Like any modern nation you rely on air transport to conduct business. But also the government would say look, there are 90 rockets that were fired from gaza at israel yesterday. It appears that the International Community is only concerned about one, and that was the one that landed in the small town of yehud which is located right next door to Ben Gurion Airport. This is the thing israel has said they had to put up for so long which is one reason why the incursion is going on inside of gaza at the moment. But what is the reaction . The reaction of the Aviation Community is as they would say it give a prize to terrorists and stop the flights because its a huge pr win for hamas. Hamas has stated they were trying to do just what now has been achieved arranged thats to get the Airlines Stop flying here. And martin, secretary kerry and u. N. Secretary general ban kimoon arrived in egypt yesterday to try to foster some sort of ceasefire. How does this impact those discussions . Well, on a number of fronts. First of all, the aviation issue becomes a distraction. And secondary is the fact that it is a nation here. Israel would say look, we are all for a ceasefire once it is agreed upon. They have said twice before they have agreed to stop any action militarily in gaza during this current military operation. And in both cases they say hamas has broken the deal. Hamas will say it is no good if it is only to stop shooting because there are far more significant issues that have to be dealt with when it comes to the Palestinian People in gaza. So thats the divide you have between the two elements that are fighting here at this particular time. So the world may want the ceasefire. The question mark is israel and hamas, can they agree upon it . And there is not really a strong feel thanksgiving can, at least not here now. Thats the bottom line. Thank you very much, Martin Savidge. While a showdown between israel and hamas is moving to gnaw front, a propaganda war. We want to warn you, there are disturbing images in this piece. That Israeli Ground invasion of gaza has been launched. Reporter todays mid east violence might seem familiar, but in this environment, traditional media meeting new media meeting social media, the horrors of war playing out like never before. A palestinian child riddled with shrapnel screams for his father. Israeli parents and friends mourn the death of a 21yearold soldier. So many sorrowful pictures. Right alongside them troubling images of resentment. Gazans cheer rockets headed toward israel on a hilltop overlooking gaza. Israelis gather to cheer airstrikes hitting gaza city. When you see the gruesome aftermath of rocket attacks on both sides of the border, there is a anger that many people feel and a compulsion to help that many people feel that i think is really palpable. Reporter the fight rages in gaza, spilling over into the media. Both sides trying to win over hearts and minds worldwide. Both sides blaming the other for the violence. Both sides trying to demonstrate the other more monstrous. Hamas wants to pile up the number of civilian victims for its own propaganda purposes. This is just cruel and heartless propaganda. Blame the victim. Accuse them of using human shields. Blame them for the loss of their own lives. Reporter the control of information propaganda, as old as war itself. This time around even celebrities like rihanna caught in the fray. She tweeted t the freepalestinian, then deleted it minutes later after being inundated with questions about whether she supports hamas. She later tweeted lets pray for peace and a swift end to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Is there any hope . You cant write a word about this conflict without getting just ripped apart from people on both sides. Reporter in social media, words often turn cheap and very, very nasty. Dehumanizing both sides, turning destruction and horrible loss of life into mockery. On twitter, the hamas is responsible and hitlerwasright flow with antipalestinian and antisemitic rhetoric. Were talking about a conflict where from both sides when you have Benjamin Netanyahu talking about telegenically dead palestinians. When you have leaders of hamas explicitly saying that they are targeting civilians, its no surprise that that kind of dehumanization filters down. Reporter the worry for many israelis, palestinians and hamas are winning the argument, making israel look like the aggressor, not simply defending its borders. A war of words almost as important as the actual fight. Miguel marquez, cnn, new york. And there you have it. Miguel did a great job. But what is the line between propaganda and reporting . Right. Even that social media, right . And were going to talk to our panel coming up in a little bit. But someone said here on cnn, a lie goes all the way around the world on social media now days before the truth even gets out of bed. And people believe everything they read on social media. 140 characters. People read headlines right now and they dont actually read. The substance. The substance of what theyre saying. Were going to figure it out. When we come back, were going to dig a little deeper into this media war between israel and hamas. And were going to ask the question, is either side winning, or do both sides lose . [ female announcer ] theres a gap out there. Thats keeping you from the healthcare you deserve. At humana, we believe if healthcare changes, if it becomes simpler. If frustration and paperwork decrease. If grandparents get to live at home instead of in a home. The gap begins to close. So lets simplify things. Lets close the gap between people and care. Lets close the gap this is kathleen. Nd care. 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The fastest elevator. The fastest speed dial. The Fastest Office plant. So why wouldnt i choose the fastest wifi . I would. Switch to comcast Business Internet and get the fastest wifi included. Comcast business. Built for business. There is some breaking news to tell you about. Former president bill clinton is addressing the 20th International Aids Conference being held in melbourne, australia. And that of course is the conference that some of the worlds leading researchers were heading to when they boarded Malaysia Flight 17 with of course tragic results. Hiv aids protesters carrying banners interrupted the former president s speech moments after it began. [ chanting ] okay. So in case you couldnt hear that, they were chanting clinton ends aids with the robin hood tax. 100 off every stock trade and that money would be put towards research. The president is always good when it comes to things like that. He said we let you talk. So now its time to let us talk and figure out how we get all of this done. Thats all playing out in melbourne right now. He handled it well. As the battle rages on the ground between israel and hamas, both sides are also engaged in a media war, a propaganda war. Were joined by alan dershowitz, the author of the trials of zion and general my jones, author of all roads lead to jerusalem and emily shire at the daily beast. Good evening to all of you. Emily, you first. You wrote an article calling it a parallel battleground in the middle east. What did you mean by that specifically . What i mean by that is while actual rockets are being lobbed in israel, we have to understand that many people over the world feel deeply invested and feel an emotional connection. So instead they weigh in all across the globe. And theyre lobbing attacks at each other, obvious really vitriolic, extremist attacks. Unfortunately, Little Information backing it up. Do you think that social media promotes extremism or it just reflects it . I think its both. You know, i mention in my article that social media manager for the African National Congress Posted a very prohitler, proholocaust message. And there are certainly studies that show there are rises in antisemitism particularly this year. So the thing with social media, it lets you retweet and share these vitriolic messages so easily without any thought behind it. Thing is a basis at a certain point. But then it spreads so fast and we just become desensitized to it. When were using twitter, the sense of the matter is there is a lot of nuance to the israelipalestinian contract. And 140 characters and certainly not a hash tag, you not fit that in there. There is a lot of room for error in there and not much, much room, if any for context. Allen, Michael Orren who is a cnn middle east analyst wrote a very kvrlt oped about the battle of hearts and minds in the middle east. He says the International Media is unwittingly, quote, complicit in hamas media tradition strategy because it shows civilian casualties obsessively. Do you agree with that . Well, i think context has to be provided. There have been tragically many, many civilian casualties. But the reason is because hamas deliberately uses Palestinian Civilians as human shields. Some people deny that. Let me read you from one of the former leaders, one of the leaders of hamas who have been saying this for years. Quote, we have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly, the mujahedeen in order to challenge the zionist bombing machine. It is as if we are saying we desire death like you desire life. I dont think that palestinian mothers want to see their children die. I do think that hamas leaders are deliberately putting their children and their women in harms way. And lets also remember that there was no blockade of gaza between 2005 and 2007. Gaza could have become the singapore of the mediterranean. The blockade began only after thousands of rockets were sent. Alan, alan, here is the thing with that. When we go on to talk about these issues, it becomes really tough to do it in the time that we have because then you to start debating the whole crisis and how it began. And im not sure if this medium is the right place for it. When we call it news, its about new. Its about what is happening. Context is everything. I agree. Hang on. Let me finish context is everything [ overlapping dialog ] by saying palestinian women alan, will you let me talk, please . Sure. By saying that palestinian families are more apt to putting their children in harms way is disrespectful and insulting to probably everyone in our audience. Jenny, do you agree or disagree . The point is that hamas leaders who do it, not the palestinians, don. They dont want their children in harms way. Youre saying that alan. Let me finish now. Please. You made your point. Ooh vp. Hang on, hang on, alan. Im going to let you finish. Jenny, ill let you finish. I just dont want all of us talking at the same time. Thats the fact. And you cant deny it. Hang on. This is weird because were all in skype. So jenny, hang on. Alan, im going to let you start over with your point. If you guys will just listen to me, i will let everybody make their point. If i tell you that i need to get in and jump, please let me do it. So alan, go ahead. Start over and finish your point. Ban kimoon today acknowledged that hamas uses mosques, uses hospitals and uses schools to send rockets. Its not that the palestinian mothers want to see their children die. Of course not. Its that hamas leaders hide underground in bunkers. They dont build bunkers for their civilians. They definitely expose their civilians to death so that they can parade them in front of cameras. Thats the reality. Thats their strategy. And its working with the media. And the people have to understand that thats the hamas strategy and its continuing to work and its continuing to cause civilian casualties. Okay, alan, thank you for saying that. The way you said it in the beginning, it sounded like palestinian women were putting their own children in harms way. I didnt say that. You misinterpreted it. Please play back the tape. I never said that. I never would say it. You said that. Okay. Thats fine. Im not here to argue with you, alan. Im just here to conduct the interview. Just make sure you state my views correctly. Okay. Youre here. You can do that. Okay . Sure. Jenny . In 2005, gaza was freed. And there were no blockades. It was only after thousands of rockets were sent that the blockade began. So the blockade is not the cause of the rockets. Its the result of the rockets. Go ahead, jenny. Not be able to go off on to his tangent . Say again, jenny . I was under the impression that you had already informed him that he would not be able to go off into this tangent. Well, hes free to speak. And again, im here. Its not a tangent. Thats his views. But i think there is a miscommunication. Those were his words, actually. There is a bit of miscommunication because were on skype. So its hard for you to hear me and alan to hear u. N. Me because there is a lot of cross talk. So jenny, no, go ahead. He may not be saying that mothers are putting their babies in harms way, but by saying hamas is doing such a thing, he is saying fathers are. He is saying an entire people are embracing this inhuman strategy. Which no no civilization would embrace. It is part of a longstanding dehumanization of the Palestinian People, a way of making them to appear as another, a people that could not be understood by good western people. I believe mr. Oren in his disgusting article went on to say that journalists, although theyre doing their best, are falling prey to a sophisticated pr campaign in which people are parading their children, their dead bodies, their children, heads blown off, bellies eviscerated in order to earn pr points. This is the most disgusting thing i have read in years. And i have been reading on the subject for many, many years. Again, ive written a book. Okay, jenny. About the youre not blaming the right people. You ought to be blaming ban kimoon that made the statement. Of hamas who said we have formed human chains of the shields of the women, the children, the elderly and the mujahedeen. There is an issue with the audio because of skype. And so everybody is talking at the same time and not hearing each others points. So if they have stopped speaking, i want to go back. I want to let alan finish his point quickly, and then we will move on. Go ahead, alan. My point is that its not that michael oren and i are saying this. Its that the leaders of hamas are saying it. And i quoted one of the leaders of hamas, talked about how we have formed human shields of the women, the children, the elderly. And they acknowledge that. And ban kimoon today condemned hamas for firing rockets from schools, from hospitals. Its a reality. You can see photographs of it. You can see videos of rockets coming from schools. Its part of their policy to create human shields in order to induce israel to kill as many Palestinian Civilians as possible. That is not racism. Thats the reality. And if there is any racism, it comes from the people who are implementing this policy. By the way, its not only true of hamas, its true in many of the areas where radical folks are using suicide bombers, suicide bombers obviously are designed to kill the bomber. And so we have to face the reality that the reason there are so many civilian casualties are because of hamas uses this strategy of human shields. And as i said before, 700 syrians were killed in the last two days. And the media all right, alan. Ive got to get to a break. Im really sorry about that. Im sorry about the skype issues and the communication issues. But when youre dealing with that and everybody is missing each others point. I want to invite everyone back when we dont have the technical issues because its a conversation that we really need to have. And its always a heated conversation. Its always a heated conversation. And you are brave man, don lemon. You take it on every night. Well, you know. You saw me sitting here quietly watching. Its worth having the conversation and everybody has to have their message out. But its impossible to have it calmly. Up next, new york citys Police Commissioner orders a top to bottom review of training procedures after a man dies in Police Custody, allegedly due do a chokehold by an officer. Weve got that story coming up. The last words of a Staten Island man being arrested by new York City Police, i cant breathe. He was allegedly caught in a chokehold, and then he died. Susan candiotti has more, and some of this, i have to warn you, very disturbing to watch. Reporter eric gardner didnt want to go to jail. He had been through the routine 30 times before, busted for nonviolent offenses. But this time after allegedly selling loose cigarettes, a struggle, and in an apparent chokehold, the 43yearold asthmatic diabetic grandfather is dead. This is a terrible tragedy that occurred yesterday, a terrible tragedy that no family should have to experience. Reporter its painful to watch. Several officers take him down, one wrapping around arm around gardners neck, his head pressed on the sidewalk. It goes on for 20 seconds. The officer lets go, and garner says i cant breathe, i cant breathe. I cant breathe. Reporter he says he cant breathe. Then appears to go limp. As defined in the departments patrol guide that this would appear to have been a chokehold. Reporter finally, emts arrive. One feels for a pulse. Garner, overweight, is loaded on to a stretcher. Police say he suffers a heart attack on the way to the hospital, and is pronounced dead an hour later. Demonstrators angry over what happened are staging protests. Garners family has hired an attorney. Police expect a lawsuit. He was very very not into violence. He never had a violent bone in his body. Reporter an autopsy is under way to determine cause of death. A District Attorney is investigating whether charges will be filed, and Police Internal affairs is looking into whether a chokehold was used, violating police guidelines. We asked forensic expert lawrence kobilinski to analyze the takedown. Obviously, the officer wanted to restrain a big man, 63, 350 pounds. But this is exactly what the police tell you not to do. It was very brief, but nevertheless, its still a chokehold. So the damage is done, even if its only for a few seconds . The damage is done. Reporter daniel pantileo has twice been accused of civil rights on the job, with one lawsuit settling out of court. He and one other officer are on desk duty. Four paramedics are suspended without pay. At the nypds request, the fbi is monitoring the case, which may be sent to the Justice Department for a possible civil rights investigation. Filmmaker spike lee is posting a video with his take, splicing up graphic chokehold scene from his Award Winning film do the right thing with garners arrest. New yorks Police Commissioner promises a full review of police training, when to use force. What im looking for is quality, not quantity. And by quality i mean having a problem successfully addressed. If it requires arrest, fine. I want to make sure our officers understand that theyre given great powers of discretion. Susan candiotti joins us now live. The commissioner, i watched that press conference, is very pained and serious. Oh, yeah. Is this a turning point, at least we hope for the department . You know, it could very well be. Although some people within the department are still questioning whether this was a chokehold. But there is a very thorough investigation going on now. Until they get the results and the cause of death. But everyone knows this is something that didnt have to happen. It did not. And the video is right in front of your very eyes. It is. The video doesnt tell the whole story. We have to wait for an autopsy. He may have had a cardiac problem. Exactly. But the use of force in this particular case, thats what im talking about. That is undeniable there. And my heart, my prayers go out for the family. Its just awful. Susan, thank you so much. Youre welcome. So coming up, the Police Department promises a top to bottom review, as susan just said. But will that stop tragedies like this happening . We have a debate on all this next. Wondering what that is . That, my friends, is everything. And with the quicksilver card from capital one, you earn unlimited 1. 5 cash back on everything you purchase. Not just everything at the hardware store. Not everything, until you hit your cash back limit. Quicksilver can earn you unlimited 1. 5 cash back on everything you could possibly imagine. Say it with me everything. One more time, everything and with that in mind. Whats in your wallet . When a pro at any 2014 pga tour event sinks a holeinone, and with that in mind. Quicken loans will pay your mortgage for an entire year. That is how its done. Truly amazing get in the holeinone sweepstakes. Enter today at pgatour. Com quickenloans and you could have your mortgage paid for an entire year. No question about that. 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If you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. Ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30tablet trial. Is the alleged chokehold incident that we just show youd an example of Excessive Police force . Here to debate that is errol louis, a cnn political commentator and lou palumbo, a retired Law Enforcement agency of Nassau County Police Department. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. So we just showed this very disturbing video, and you see this low level street hustler as he has been described. He was selling individual cigarettes. That was his crime. They call them untaxed cigarettes. Six Police Officers respond. He says something to the effect not you guys again. He says hey, hey, hey. He puts his hands up. And then you see what happens here. Lou, why did it take six officers, and why does one appear to grab him from around the neck and put him in some form of a chokehold . Well, the first thing im going to say is this gentleman was 63 and 350 pounds. And its not uncommon to have multiple officers restrain you, because if three or four officers restrain you, they have to use les force, there is less risk of injury to the individual theyre taking into custody and subsequently to themselves. The simple fact of the matter here is if this individual had simply complied with the arrest, which he was legally required to do but lou, i love you. Were going to disagree on this one. Because this man is standing there. According to his family, he is a docile man. I watched this video over and over. I wrote a commentary about it. I listened to the guy. The guy is saying you guys keep bothering me. Im doing my thing, whatever, you keep accusing me. And then he raise his hands up. And says dont touch me. Please dont touch me. Please dont touch me. He is not fighting with officers. His language is saying dont touch me. But he is not fighting. He is not resisting arrest as far as i can see in that video. And if you listen to it, he is not. Am i wrong . Did you watch the video . Look, it goes without saying, if everybody did what theyre supposed to do, there would be no need for police. Could he have handled it better . Sure. It have been nice if hey he marched over and did what they wanted. The situation did not warrant what the officers did to him. Regardless, if he was engaged in some type of illegal activity and the police elected to take action, part of which was placing him under request, he is required to comply, otherwise you have an Additional Charge of resisting arrest. But lou, hold on. Chokeholds have been banned for 20 years. Thats correct. By the nypd. Yet somehow Police Officers are still using them. There have been a thousand complaints against the nypd in the past four years. Somewhere training has gone wrong. I cant arbitrate that with you. I think we have to visit the training component or mechanism here. Im not saying what the Police Officer did was correct. Im just here to explain to you that when youre in the throe of the moment, things get kind of crazy. These two guys are saigt this guy, and the first 23w0 that encountered him are trying to figure out how theyre going to control him. The method may have been wrong. Its easy for us to sit here. He went down right away. You could hear him as soon as they took him down, i cant breathe, i cant hear him. He is asthmatic. Youre hearing him once they released his throat him going i cant breathe. And again, as alisyn said, the choke show us the chokehold and how it works. Absolutely. I just want to say one thing to you, don. Go ahead. Were glossing over the fact that precipitated the conflict with the police. He chose not to. At that point its their legal requirement. But he wasnt a violent criminal. Alisyn, thats not the issue. Well dont know case by case if youre violent or how youre going to react. All i know is when we ask you to comply, we expect you to comply. Errol, they knew this guy. Again, this guy did sell untaxable but they sell them in bodegas. There is a larger issue here about quality of life enforcement. The penalty for what he did, if he did selling loose cigarettes for 50 cents here. They give him a ticket. Its not like this is a menace to society. Its a nuisance to the merchants and to the people in the neighborhood and the cops were there presumably for that reason. I need to get in this statement from the Patrolmans Benevolent Association because that officer who did get him from around the neck has been reassigned. The Association Says it is, a quote, completely unwarranted kneejerk reaction for political reasons. Your response . Well, that officer too has issues. He was sued and it was settled out of court. He cost the city and taxpayers 30,000 for falsifying a police report. Also violating two peoples civil rights, making them strip and squat in public. And then there is another lawsuit pending against him that the department wont talk about for similar issues of but again, you had this thing. What this is really going to do, don, is to show you. Quickly. Ten seconds. What a chokehold. You come in the behind the head and you press. And what you do is you exert pressure through the throat as im showing you this. Is a chokehold. Thats its all banned. All of it is banned. Thats a strict demonstration of what the chokehold was, which was in fact in policy with the lapd for a very long time as well. Errol the guy did not have to end up that way. Thanks for exploring this was, guys. Sure. Well be right back. Theres a gap out there. Thats keeping you from the healthcare you deserve. At humana, we believe if healthcare changes, if frustration and paperwork decrease. The gap begins to close. So lets simplify things. Lets close the gap between people and care. He cadillac summer collection is here. During the cadillac summers best event, lease this all new 2014 cts for around 459 a month or purchase with 0 apr and make this the summer of style. You fifteen percent or more on huh, fiftCar Insurance. Uld save Everybody Knows that. Well, did you know words really can hurt you . What. . Jesse dont go jesse. No im sorry daisy, but im a loner. And a loner gotta be alone. Heee yawww geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. Jesse . Its been quite a show. Thats it for us tonight. Stay with us for the latest breaking news on flight 17 and the conflict in gaza. Have a great night. Have a great night. Good night. Captions by vitac www. Vitac. Com u. S. Flight to tel aviv suspended. The u. S. Said it is a safety measure. Israel said its not necessary. Meanwhile, u. S. Secretary of state john kerry is working to negotiate a ceasefire in the conflict between israel and hamas. Plus, a somber journey as the bodies of passengers and crew of Malaysia Airlines flight 17 edge closer to home