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Clinton and don, jr. Among others. And there is more. A federal judge is forcing a longtime aide to Trump Advisor Roger stone to Turnover Documents and testify before a grand jury hearing, Hearing Evidence in the mueller investigation. Stone sought damaging information about Hillary Clinton from wikileaks, the website which published thousands of hacked democratic emails, emails stolen by russian hackerses, hackers the Trump Justice Department identified as agents of the russian government. There are also new developments in the trial of the president s former Campaign Manager, Paul Manaforts bookkeeper testifying that her boss was effectively broke and lying to banks about his precarious financial situation after losing his biggest client, which is the prorussian former ukrainian president. And that was right about the same time that manafort started working for the Trump Campaign. The bookkeeper also testified that she knew nothing of foreign accounts controlled by manafort. That poses a problem for manafort since yesterday car dealers and contractors said they were paid almost exclusively from foreign accounts linked to cyprus. Now, in the middle of all of this, the president still says he wants to sit down for an interview with mueller and clear everything up while his lawyers warn that would be a very bad idea. Former Trump Campaign manager Corey Lewandowski telling our very orrin erin burnett a short time ago he hasnt spoken with trump but would advise against a sitdown with mueller. Well, that is a curious claim since cnn reported that lewandowski joined the president aboard Air Force One just last night after his florida rally. Also on that flight, trump 2020 Campaign Manager brad par Scand Parscal Who Said Trump Should Fire Mueller to bring the probe to an end. Lots to discuss. Former u. S. Attorney harry litman is here and cnn legal analyst joey jackson up on the late shift tonight. Joining us. Very sloppy, nondetail oriented, very hard to prepare kind of witness, very erratic, could blurt things out. But theres a deeper subtext here. I think that theyre aware of, which is hes got real criminal vulnerability. This is not a question of whats the meaning of this. This is a question of a lot of details that would tend to show that hes guilty of obstruction of justice. Mueller knows everything. Trump doesnt know what mueller knows. And there would be all kinds of questions, even as he shaves his list of questions by 50 as hes offered to do, that would just be absolute hazards for trump because mueller knows the answer, having talked with other people. So, i think thats the real problem here and i think this has been theatrical from the start. They havent really intended to sit down. The real problem is hes got criminal exposure. And if he sits down with him and he lies, exposure for perjury, if he tells the truth exposure for the underlying crime. Thats the biggest problem. So, joey, respond to that. He said he thinks its theatrics. Does trump want to Sit Down With Mueller or is it to look that way in public . I believe its very simple, don. Good to see you. The reality to me is its a farce. Number one, i do not believe that he wants to Sit Down With Mueller no matter what other people say. Theres two schools of thought. One is that he is and his lawyers are holding him back but he really wants to speak to them. I think thats political cover. I see it far more simply than harry does. I think he doesnt want to sit down with him or his lawyers dont because, look, the president is truth challenged. We know that. The fact is that whether you love trump or whether you disdain him, i think everyone can collectively agree that his relationship with the truth, there is a major disconnect. If there was a report, one report i saw said he told 2100 lies since office, another one said 3,000, another one said 10 a day. If you Sit Down With Mueller, if they dont have obstruction we dont know whether they do. Hes tweeting, his State Of Mind is all over the place. He could say he fired comey. If there is no obstruction and there is no collusion, conspiracy, you want to argue collusion, its conspiracy. The fact is you can get him on perjury. So why take the chance of going sitting with mueller no matter how smooth you think you are, no matter what you think you can say, when youre going to get caught in a lie because you will lie because thats what this president does. Period. So, harry, so far mueller hasnt moved on this demand that he wants trump to sit down in person. This negotiation has been going on since january that we know about. At what point does mueller tire of this and just say, im going to subpoena the president . Exactly. I mean, its been since january and maybe before. Im a little surprised. I would have thought he would have said, you know, forget it. Its been silly that team trump has been acting as if its got the leverage here and maybe theyll decide to sit down. As you say, the law is likely to be with mueller and he can just go to court. Now it gets a little tricky if he really is inclined to wrap things up before the midterms, probably even a quick process in the courts would extend past november. But, look, i agree with joey hes an inventor, liar. The big problem here i think really goes to the substantive exposure for obstruction and the fact that mueller would have so much information that the president just doesnt have. At this point, though, there is also the real possibility that he would file a report with the at this investigation, don, is looking and eyeing whether they can connect the dots. Who is they . Muellers team. And in order to connect dots as it relates to russian collusion and it relates to the Trump Administration trying to get information and working with the russians alongside of them, collectively agreeing, defining collusion, you need to have some people who might be knowledge as to that. And so, of course, if you get them and other members, people from the Russian Community who could talk to the meeting, who could talk to the connection between the campaign and members of the russian government, you can establish that nexus and connection. And so thats why theyre central to muellers investigation. So, harry, the Aguilaravs Attorney appeared a short while ago. Listen to this. They never spoke to the president before or after, or to suggest the president was informed the meeting was going to happen. From their perspective, they learned about it in the scope of cooperate. They dont need to talk to him at all and there had been some indication that amina was actually soured on trump. But that certainly seemed like an attempt to aid the president and it would suggest that if they do talk, hell be telling a story that would be exculpatory and maybe of don junior as well, his buddy. These are colorful characters, but mueller, in any event, wants to hear from them. He wants to know the truth. Yeah. Thank you, harry. Harry is here all the time. Joey not so much. Im glad wolf blitzer shared you, let you come on the show tonight. So nice to be here. Thank you. Thank you, come back. Thank you all. When we come back, the africanamerican pastor who met with President Trump at the white house and is now facing a backlash. Im going to talk to him next. My Digestive System used to make me feel sluggish. But those days are over. Now, i take metamucil every day. It naturally traps and removes A recap of the days news. Youll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day. Ou . Complicated relationship with milk . 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My prayer is you will continue to have wisdom and insight to lead this nation. Truly all of us are created equal so thank you for giving us an equal opportunity to fight for this nation and what it means to be an american. Thank you. So joining me now is pastor john gray of the Relentless Church in greenville, South Carolina. You received some backlash. Welcome. Good evening. Thank you, good evening. Its good to have you. You received some backlash. Other people who were there were a bit more complimentary of the president and got maybe in a bit your credibility, your influence among the Faithbased Community. Uhhuh. And there you are. I have had pastors come on who were on the president s Advisory Board and they quit because they thought it was a photo op in one of the first meet ings and they didnt think he was going to do this administration was interested in helping anyone except for getting a photo op. Yeah. What do you think . Did you expect the cameras to be there . No. When i first heard about this and was invited, i actually said i dont want to take pictures. I will go, i will listen, i will give my input, but i dont want to be photographed. And that was because i understood that certain parts of our community, the Faithbased Community and the Africanamerican Community and rightfully so, have immeasurable pain when youre dealing with an administration that at times has drawn Moral Equivalency to the unite the right rally, the people who organized it and those who opposed it. Thats so then why go there and lend your credibility to him . Because there are other ways that you can participate that may be strategically smarter and more influential than being seen on the same page with someone who many people most people of color in this country, black folks, think that his policies, his speech, his language, behavior, all of that are detrimental to African Americans. You can help out in other ways rather than sitting next to him and him having taken a picture. Let me ask you this. You just invited me to your table. We dont know each other. We dont agree on everything. Im sure if we had the conversation. But were at this table for dialogue. The purpose of that conversation was to talk about prison reform. It was the express understanding that we were coming to see if churches could partner with the government to help lower recidivism rates and systemic poverty, cyclical poverty based on people who are trying to community that ive come from . Why would i risk it . Would it be for a photo op . Thats what i ask you, why . I went because i believe i was sent. I believe that my faith did you have to go to the white house . Could you have done a Conference Call . Could you have been on, you know, via television or camera or could you have teleconference . Or could you have maybe there could have been a place other than the white house where you can discuss this . Did you the thing is that sitting there, all of these African Americans sitting there, it is being seen as the president of the United States, this administration has proposed policies that are so detrimental to African Americans that they are using you as a prop and using you hang on. They are using you as a prop and it is a photo op. The photo op doesnt work. It backfires. The moment im on that platform, whatever they were hoping to accomplish with their intended audience back fires because they dont have credibility in that market in the first place with those people. For me, the answer is very simple. I went through every detail, why would i go. What could i possibly gain, which is nothing. Would you do it again . Would i go back . If there were different circumstances, if i had assurances that we were going to meet about the intended conversation, yeah, i would go back. Not because i agree, because this is whats important. Alignment or even speaking does not mean agreement. Dialogue does not mean agreement. Sitting at the table does not mean agreement. And thats important. I dont agree with many of the policies, but it doesnt stop me from having conversation. Okay, i know weve gone on long. Sorry, producers. This is what you put on your instagram page. You said, lord, do you want me in that room . My first mind was no. The pain of so many is too real. The hurt, the isolation, the sense of disenfranchisement. The real hate that has bubbled to the surface of the national discourse. Do you think the president is responsible for hate in the nations discourse now . I believe that our president has fostered a culture and a climate that has allowed for what was there and has been there for years to bubble up. It has empowered people in a horrific way, absolutely. I dont think there is any question about that. And if youre looking for someone who is a fan of the administration or a boy for the administration, thats not me. I am a man of god. My faith guides me. I very well may lose credibility with whoever, but the people that know my heart know this. I am determined to honor what i believe is the calling on my life. There is nothing for me to gain from being there. But i am committed to fighting for people who cannot fight for themselves. And if i began to cower to people who dont agree because a lot of people dont agree with me dont share my faith. Daniel spoke to nebuchednezzar. Now youre preaching. People speak to leaders who dont agree or lineup with that. For me it Wasnt About Being seen. Clearly that did nothing for me. I believe let me say this to you, and i spoke to someone who i really respect today and talking about faith. Look, i am a person of faith. He said there is a reason that people would teach you about the bible, would let you congregate on the plantation, but would not allow you to read. Do you understand the meaning of that . Absolutely. It means they believe that religion keeps people in chains and that fighting back and saying, im not going to deal with this, turning the other cheek because they dont want you to leave the plantation. What do you say to that . He ri was never on the plantation. People keep overlooking so much, overlooking, you know, when it comes to women, overlooking what it says about gays, overlooking what it says about muslims, overlooking what it says just about every thing. Absolutely. There is so much. You just keep overlooking. People of the Faithbased Community, evangelicals affairs, adultery, all of those things, what . At what cost, at what price . I think thats the key. I wasnt on the president ial evangelical Advisory Board. I think what you said are valid. I can only speak for me. With everything that i could have lost and could still lose, i believe that my voice was necessary because i was there for people who could not fight for themselves. That was my intention and my heart. Thank you. Weve gone really long. Sorry. All im saying is turn the other cheek, fine. But if you keep turning you other cheek as all you do is get bruised and swollen. Thank you. I really appreciate you joining us. When we come back, while the president is distracting and deflecting about hoaxes and talk about the media his administration is changing crucial policies. How they are chipping away at owe kbam a care a obamacare and how it could affect you. Thats next. Take prilosec otc and take control of heartburn. So you dont have to stash antacids here. Here. Or, here. Kick your Antacid Habit with prilosec otc. One pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. Man are unpredictable crohns symptoms following you everywhere . Its time to take back control with stelara®. 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A new federal rule clears the way for shortterm Health Insurance plans that let consumers buy coverage for just under a year at a time. They are expected to be a lot cheaper than whats currently offered. Their premium is around half of the average cost of plans sold under obamacare. So whats the catch here . Well, you get what you pay for. And these plans, they dont pay for much. So here we go. One Analysis Shows that only 57 of the plans cover Mental Health care. 38 cover Substance Abuse treatment. And none of them, zero percent, cover maternity care. You probably wont be able to buy them if you have a preexisting condition. And if you buy this insurance and then need to use it, watch out. There are limits on how much your plan will pay. Some plans dont cover immunizations or even injuries from playing organized sports. There is even a plan in illinois that Doesnt Cover Hospital stays that begin on weekends. Not surprisingly, doctors and advocates dont approve. According to the los angeles times, a whopping 98 of groups that weighed in on the proposal to make shortterm health plans more available were either critical or outright opposed. But the administration and a lot of insurers are eager to sell these plans. The president tonight boasting about chipping away at obamacare. You know how many people have come up to me and said, thank you very much for getting rid of the individual mandate . Sounds so nice. Isnt it a beautiful term . The individual mandate is wonderful. See, i think president ial now. The individual mandate. The individual mandate is a disaster. It sounds good, like the Affordable Care act, was not affordable. So now the administrationis out with trumpcare. Will americans like what is in the fine print . So lets discuss now. Cnns senior economics analyst Stephen Moore and jason candor, democratic candidate for mayor of kansas city. Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you so much. Jason, what is the likelihood people will choose these plans based on cost and pay the price later when they get sick or need the coverage . Thats the whole idea here, don. Its basically a scam. Its a piece of paper. Its not insurance coverage. Folks will say, well, this, i can pay for it, it costs a lot less. They walk around with a piece of paper that actually doesnt give them access to a doctor. When i was in the army we had this saying that we would use, which is the checking the box is one of the worst forms of lying. What it means is that if you pretend to solve a problem, in some ways that can be worse than doing nothing at all because if you pretended to solve the problem, then people walk around thinking the problem is solved, but its still there. Thats exactly what the Trump Administration is trying to do here. They want to pretend they did something about the fact that, for instance, here in kansas city we have huge pressure on Emergency Services because, you know, we didnt expand medicaid in the state so a lot of folks dont have health care. They end up using the emergency room. Thats a real problem. But theyre pretending to solve it. In a lot of ways that check in the box, thats more dangerous than if they were to do nothing. Lets bring in steven now. Democrats called this Junk Insurance. Thats what they say, thats a quote, Junk Insurance among the shortcomings, They Dont Cover Preexisting conditions. Doesnt that leave out an enormous pool of people who wont be able to get coverage . Well, look, what you and jason have been talking about actually would apply to obamacare. I mean, jason, every promise that was made under obamacare has turned out to have been a lie. Preexisting conditions . Well, im talking about the fact that everyone would be covered. There are still 25 to 30 Million People who dont have Health Insurance. By the way, thats the group of people that were trying to get insurance for. But why are so many people looking at these cheaper plans . Its very simple, because the cost of obamacare plans has doubled over the last five years. So it is ironic that this lie is called the Affordable Care act because for so many millions of americans, health care is not more affordable. I mean, you guys remember when barack obama was campaigning on obamacare, remember he said it was going to save the average family 2,500 a year and now we have a situation where for the average family the cost of health care has almost doubled in most states. So what were looking at is trying to provide look, we all want to provide more coverage for people and it seems like what you all are saying is unless this is a gold plated health plan, it would be better for somebody to not have Health Insurance at all. The stats, steven, im giving facts. Jason is here as the democratic person. Maybe the facts dont lineup the way you want them. That doesnt mean im espousing or supporting anything. Those are the facts. But also hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on, steven. You spout out all of these statistics about whats costing more, but also there are people out there and insurers, right, and Big Medical Companies who are refusing to join this plan because they want to keep their profits and so getting rid of the individual mandate and all of those things, that is causing the markets to collapse or obamacare to don thats a big part of it. The Obamacare System was in a spiral two years before donald trump became president. Thats not true. Yes, it was. I want to talk about the i dont want its not affordable for people thats why people want lower cost plans because they cant afford obamacare. I dont want to get off track hold on, hold on. Okay, go ahead. We get side tracked with these things. I want to talk about the merits of this program. By the way, all the facts show that what you said is completely false. Obamacare was in a death spiral. That is a republican talking point. That is absolutely not true. The cost doubled, don, that is absolutely true. Go on, chris. Lets talk about this policy. Don, lets talk about this health care. If steven is going to sit there and say a bunch of stuff thats not true and pretend the problems that exist with obamacare, that a whole bunch of them werent caused by stuff republicans did over the last few years on purpose, if were going to do that i would prefer that he and the other people defending this Trumpcare Plan just be honest about what they want. What they want, don, is to go back to 2009. They want to go back to when Insurance Companies were in charge. They want to go back to when preexisting conditions were a reason not to give you Health Insurance. They want to go back to when you thought you were covered for something and you werent and you got sick and got dropped. I would just prefer they actually make an argument for what theyre for rather than pretending that theyre for something else, rather than checking the box and just pretending all the time. If were going to have a debate, why dont they stand up and say what theyre for . Because its unpopular. I want to give you ill give you the last word. Go ahead, steven. Unfortunately Health Insurance is so expensive right now, people cant afford the plans that were supposed to be more affordable under obamacare. What we are trying to offer people is plans that they can afford. Now, theyre not going to cover for everything that obamacare requires coverage for, but if you cant my point is wouldnt a plan that provides you with some basic coverage be better than no Health Insurance at all . And i guess you guys say it would be better if people dont have Health Insurance at all. That has to be it. Wasnt that the whole idea of obamacare people cant afford it. Thats the whole point. Youre not telling the viewer youre just telling a part of it that fits your narrative. Youre not telling people why its not affordable. Thats what youre not telling. He thinks its fine if people cant get Health Insurance because they used to be sick. Im not saving 2,500 a year on my Health Insurance. Raise your hand if you are because i dont think many people are. Thank you. Well be right back. It was here. I couldnt catch my breath. It was the last song of the night. It felt like my heart was skipping beats. They said i had afib. Whats afib . I knew that meant i was at a greater risk of stroke. I needed answers. My doctor and i chose xarelto® to help keep me protected from a stroke. Oncedaily xarelto®, a latestgeneration Blood Thinner significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. 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Can i read you real quick the Nazi Platform . The National Socialist German Workers Party which was commonly referred to as the nazi party was built on dictator adolf hitlers belief that arian germans were superior to nonarian, particularly jewish people. Ideology was built on the premise jewish people were responsible for the problems facing germany following world war i. And that belief eventually spiralled into the governmentrun genocide against the jews known as the holocaust. So, Democratic Party platform, is that what it is . What you said captures it, right . The essence of nazism is Dee Humanization. The Dee Humanization of vulnerable groups. Which Political Party in this era is doing more Dee Humanization of vulnerable groups . Is it the democrats comparing mexican immigrants as insects who are infesting the country . Is it they who are basically involved in a Large Scale Campaign making people hate and associate latinos with criminals . No, its the republican party. If youre going to make this analogy, the Dee Humanization is coming from the trumps organization. This man is from a father who could not condemn the marching in charlottesville. I want you to watch it again. Jews will not replace us. Jews will not replace us. So trump went on the blame both sides, we know the whole thing after that rally. How is any supporter of this president defend this propaganda . Yeah, its not what i would choose to attack the democrat platform. Lord knows theres enough to attack the democrats on without resorting to call people a nazi. Of course, if i had a nickel for every time i heard someone on the american left like peter just did call republicans donald trump or even the president that i worked for, george w. Bush a nazi, i guess id be a rich man. We ought to all stop calling each other nazis, because none of us are nazis. Were all americans scott, this is different because its the president s son. I dont like it. I dont like it. I dont want anybody to call people nazi. But youre comparing the average citizen its all awful, but youre comparing an average citizen who doesnt have a voice, doesnt have a platform, is not going to be talked about in the news to the president s son, the sitting president s son comparing a democratic platform to nazism. Thats different. Thats false equivalence there. I hate to tell you that. Well, of course it is. I dont know what you want me to say. I disagree with the rhetoric. I disagreed with it just now when peter who does have a platform says republicans are more nazi like than democrats. I dont like any of this and i dont think most people want either party to be calling the other ones nazis. Tara, go ahead. Well, look. Im no fan of the democratic platform. I havent been for years, thats why im a conservative republican. However, for the president s son to throw out that the democratic platform is similar to nazi germany is absurd. It goes to show you that he doesnt really understand history. First of all, its awful, its like projection because if you read through the 25point plan of the nazi party back then and the republic and all those things, theres a whole lot in there that unfortunately is awfully reminiscent to some of the things that donald trump has actually advocated for. I mean, the whole idea of the tribalism and the nationalism and what steve bannon and those guys were perpetuating during the election, thats a lot closer to the Nazi Platform than what democrats are asking for today. And not only that. The whole idea of the press being called the enemy of the people. My en, it was hitler who called the press the lugan press, the lying press. That is a freaking Nazi Propaganda Rhetoric that the president of the United States is using from the bully pulpit every day. So the president should are you comparing people to nazis . Im using the example based off of what the president s own son and what the president has done. If you really want to get into lets compare things to nazi germany, theres a whole hell of a lot more going on with whats coming out of trumps mouth and out of his sons mouth and some of his supporters like what we just saw that anything the democrats are proposing and im no fan of what the democratic platform is. Scott and peter will respond on the other side of the break. This is not a bed. To keep you both comfortable. And snoring . How smart is that . Smarter sleep. To help you lose your dad bod, train for that marathon, and wake up with the patience of a saint. The new sleep number 360 smart bed, from 999. Smarter sleep will change your life. Record on this or can no one contradict a Family Member of this president . I mean, i think people are free to speak their mind and i certainly am going to sit here and tell you that i dont like it when we resort to the tactics that the left resorts to, which is this stupid name calling that is not rooted in the historical record. I dont like it when we do what they do. But, you know, everyone is free to speak their mind and correct it if they want. I dont think its going to put a stop to it unfortunately. Were having a panel tonight. I say i dont think anybody should do it and two people here call the republicans nazis. I didnt call it is completely broken. I didnt call republicans nazis. Let me tell you bothful you did. Let me explain, ill explain. I believe there is a spectrum of Dee Humanization and percent conditional use based he on dehumanization. Donald trump has moved us in america further in that direction by his continual equation of mexican immigrants with criminals and rapists and even insects and we see the bitter fruit of that in this brutal inhumane child separation policy. That is moving america in the direction that we dont want to go. Not to where nazis are, but closer than we were before donald trump. Thats what i believe. And i used the example of the propaganda that nazis used and the word donald trump is using that mirror exactly what the nazis use in their Disinformation Campaigns in the 30s and 40s. So, i mean, if were going to go there, i used historical precedent. I mean, hitler did use the term lugen press which means lying press. Thats exactly what trump is doing now, calling the press the enemy of the people is reminiscent of nazi propaganda. Thats just historical fact. Let me ask you a question here. How do you think lets just say that sasha and malia were grown and working for the obamas as president and said and called republicans nazis, or maybe a better example would be Chelsea Clinton doing the same thing as she was working for her mother if her mother was the president of the United States. Or when her father was president. What do you think would happen on the right, scott . People would go crazy about it and thats why its wrong. I mean, i dont know how no one is going crazy about it. It is wrong for one party no one is going crazy about it. No one has come out and said anything. You are a contributor here on cnn. You know why no one is going crazy about it . Because our civil discourse has gotten so far off the rails that everybody jannes about this stuf yawns about this stuff. Thats the problem with american political discourse. It is so off the rails, calling each other nazis is so out of bounds. The president of the United States sets the tone. It wasnt off the rail like this in other presidencies. It wasnt. It starts from the top. Sure it was. Do you know how many times i had to endure people calling george w. Bush a nazi . It was not coming from the president of the United States. Have you watched the trump rally lately . George w. Bush said nothing like what donald trump says. In fact, the number of he was still called a nazi. Yet they still called who called him a nazi . But scott, scott, lets give you the point. Lets say people did call george w. Bush a nazi. They did, thats true. Who did it . Was it a sitting president s son or daughter or Family Member . No. It was some of the most wealthy financiers of the Democratic Party. George soros did it, Keith Ellison did it. Compared 9 11 to the reich i think youre missing the point. Were talking about how president s talk and president s behave. Donald trump is totally unlike barack obama or george w. Bush in that regard. All right. I have to go. Thanks for watching. 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