Whats the winning message for 2014. We have to build an economy that works for anybody. The president has an opportunity agenda. Republicans are focused on one issue. Obamacare. Obamacare. Obamacare. Obamacare. On the left van jones. On the right, s. E. Cupp. In the crossfire, howard dean, a former chairman of the democratic party. And bob earling. Welcome. Im s. E. Cupp. We have two guests who know about how to win elections. President obama was in maryland today and he was highlighting his opportunity agenda. This speech comes on the fifth anniversary of the stimulus which worked. Now, the stimulus was not supposed to create economic nir vana but was supposed to prevent president bushs train wreck from driving us down the toilett. Since we stepped in to help the auto makers retool the American Auto industry has created almost 425,000 new jobs. So we raise fuel efficiency, help consumers, helped improve air quality and were making better cars than ever and the auto makers are hiring folks for good jobs all across the country. I love it. Next the president says we need to move forward, invest in education, manufacturing, Energy Efficiency and raise the minimum wage. No solution is perfect but that is one solution that would lift up 16. 5 million workers. If we do everything the president says we are going to have a whole lot more to celebrate five years from now. Lets get to the minimum wage. Im so glad you brought that up. Lets first introduce our guest in the crossfire. Former vermont governor dean. A lot of democrats have said that raising the minimum wage is both good economics, good politics. The cbo nonpartisan issued a report today saying raising the minimum wage to 10. 10 an hour would cost the economy about 500,000 jobs. I have sat at this table with Many Democrats who have told me to my face that i am dead wrong, that the minimum wage would cost us jobs. Now, i based that on matht that pretty much everyone knows about supply and demand. Why should we trust democrats on anything when they couldnt have foreseen that this would be the case . First of all, it would raise 900,000 americans out of poverty. I want you to answer the question that i just asked because democrats told me to my face we are wrong. The president has said it. I want you to address that point, cutting jobs. Im going to. First of all it would raise 900,000 people out of poverty. Even though cbo is nonpartisan and very credible and i usually have the same attitudes that you do, something is wrong with this. Seven nobel lauriats said this is right. Get serious. I usually aagree. Im going to say things about the stimulus package that are not party line things. Because i think it was bernankes stimulus. I appreciate that you are honest. I do believe cbo is wrong here because most economists disagree. When you raise minimum wage it does not cut jobs. That is a fact. If you are worth more than the minimum wage to your employer you will make it. If you are not worth more you will lose your job or have hours cut. It is a mix bag. Of course, it is going to help some people. If it is 9. 10 an hour and you are worth 9. 11 to your employer you got a raise. If you are worth 8. 10 you will lose your job. It is basic economics. It is basic economics. 600 economists say they are wrong because they are using an outdated model. Much more importantly you cant mean the people in your state, in maryland, who are actually working for places like walmart, that are deliberately under employing people only getting paid what they are worth. 600,000 Small Business people disagree. This is not complicated. It just isnt. Whatever cbo, if you are worth a certain amount to your employer in a perfect world. I want to get you on the record on this. Are you saying there is not a single worker in this country that is being under paid . Of course. And overpaid. But the point here is we have workers across the country being under paid. You have majorer corporations like walmart here is the thing. Government cant make you by some unilateral announcement, make you more valuable to your employer than you are. This is the argument i would use in this case. In some ways you are both right. There are workers that are overpaid. They eventually do lose their jobs and go off someplace like china. There is no recourse for workers that are under paid. Corporations like walmart are shifting costs to the public sector. One championed antiaffirmative action stuff has a ballot option in californiat that will raise minimum wage in california because he wants to pay what they are worth. Why not 14 . Why not 16 . Why not none according to you guys . Why not 20. You dont have to convince me. That would keep up with inflation from 1968. Completely rational. It doesnt matter what you think. Dont you think people deserve a cost of living increase . It is compassion against economics. What i cant believe, though, is that the democrats, what the democrats have decided to do with this report is call it wrong. They are not going to try to they are just going to call that part of it wrong. We can talk about find out that it is wrong. Think about it. Lets take that gamble. Im not gambling with 16. 5 Million People who arent getting paid enough. Im not gambling with People Living below the poverty line. You are gambling with 500,000 jobs at a time. Cbo does not have credibility. Lets move on. We are not getting anywhere. People do lose their jobs are the most marginal of the mar marginal, the poorest of the poor. This was marco rubio today talking about the president s fiveyear stimulus anniversary. Five years later under employment is still too high. The number of people that have dropped out of the workforce is astounding. Our economy isnt growing fast enough. I assume you disagree with that assessment. I agree that the economy is not growing fast enough. I think if you look at the economy now compared to when barack obama was noggierated in 2008 it is not to be believed. It is a long way from where it needs to be. I actually dont think the obama stimulus package turned this around. The biggest difference which people like marco rubio carried on about and didnt like and said they wanted to impeach, the biggest difference was ben bernanke. When he did what europe refused to do which is open the fed and print money that is what saved the American Economy and allowed the American Economy to leave all the rest of the world. Should the stimulus have been bigger . If the congressional stimulus and the obama stimulus was going to work it would have been a lot bigger. I think bernanke, obama did it. It was an ugly political process. We all know that. It wasnt big enough. Bernanke realized that and introduced quantitative easing which he did three times. That made all the difference. You like what bernanke did. That is great. I like what obama did. You are against the minimum wage. Not a growth policy. Against unemployment insurance. You are against roads and bridges, investment. I am going on roads and bridges on the way home. A lot of stuff i agree with the president when he said [ inaudible ] 1. 2 trillion worth of disaster. I agree with regard of easing policy far more relevant. Your party mostly opposed it. It was a mixed bag. Like the cbo, 2. 5 million jobs out of the stimulus package, 95 of americans. You are against tax cuts. Here is my problem with your platform. Once in a while i want you to do something about growth, about taking that Small Business entrepreneur and say we are going to reward you and create jobs. It is not about dependency and more entitlement and more taxpayer dollars and more transfers. My argument, is that is what the republicans say but never do it. When george bush was president he gave tax cuts to the biggest earners in the country. He didnt do a damn thing for Small Business. Neither party does a lot for Small Businesses. Republicans help out big corporations and we help people in the bottom. As governor ehrlich alluded to i think the democrat proposals are small. If ewe want to grow the economy we have to fix one big thing. Can you guess what it is . Ill ask governor dean about it next. [ male announcer ] whether it takes 200,000 parts, 800,000 hours of supercomputing time, 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights. Whether its building the worlds most advanced satellite, the space station, or the next leap in unmanned systems. At boeing, one thing never changes. Our passion to make it real. Coach calls her a team player. 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All the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. Call. And ask about all the ways you could save. Liberty mutual insurance. Responsibility. Whats your policy . Welcome back. We are debating whose agenda will get your vote this year. Republicans are in great shape for 2014 and democrats know it. If you look at any map there are plenty of house and Senate Democrats who are vulnerable or take a look at president obamas bad poll numbers in the states or obamacares bad poll numbers. While the president s low quality care act will help some people it will be devastating for others. That doesnt make me happy but does make me confident. Governor dean, back to you. Republicans are ready to go with one unified message. And we already have ads running on that message. Take a look. More than 470,000 North Carolinaens had health plans cancelled. Health care costs are soaring and families are losing access to the doctors they trust. Kay hagan think obamacares time has come. There is plenty more where that came from. You will be seeing that all year. What would you tell democrats to say in response to ads like that . Amend it, dont end it. I have said this for a long time including other times on this show. I think obamacare will be a net winner for us. The reason is as time goes on more and more people are getting health care. Some of those people are republicans. It is really hard to get people to hate obamacare if they are benefitting from it. Kentucky is interesting and arkansas are two places that did not vote for president obama, if you dont call it obamacare, the health care has high markings. A lot of people in kentucky and arkansas have health care that didnt have it before. You have your ads up now. We will have our ads up later. I cant way to see them. It will be aamazing. In every home in america there will be a dinner guest. And that dinner guest is probably a mother surviving cancer and because of obamacare she is not going to be dead. How are you guys going to not an individual market that did not have her Health Insurance disrupted by the president s false promises. You guys are going to be trying to play those kinds of games. When you are looking in the face of somebody who is alive and says had it not been for obamacare i wouldnt be here today. He is not happy. He knows this stuff really well. This is a pretty bad bill with nice provisions in it. It is hurting a lot of people in it. The latest news, the 2. 5 million job lead with the irs making sure you dont fire down after you, is this the latest piece of bad news. This is a negligent piece of legislation that is hurting a lot of americans today. Republicans benefit and make it to senate, got it. Mend it, dont end it, whatever. There needs to be another term for mend like major operation. Get away with the sly reference. People now have the freedom not to have to work in order to get benefits. You are not buying that line i hope. That is a fact. Second of all i think kay hagan will get reelected because the election will not be about obamacare but about the right wing nut jobs running North Carolina, same phenomenon in new hampshire. We are going to run the table in North Carolina because you have crazy people running legislature in North Carolina. She is okay. I think we take back the senate for sure. The reason i think so is i think kay hagan wins. I think Mary Landrieu wins. Amazingly optimistic. Let me ask you a question because i want to be honest here. I think obamacare is a devastating piece of legislation and will probably help republicans win the house and the senate. I will conceive republicans need some affirmative alternative solutions not just to health care but to entitlement reform and tax reform. Are we going to ignore that and just talk about obamacare. You are talking about politics 102 which is the problem you always have when you dont control the presidency. The Minority Party always runs into this. You see this as leader of the democratic party. One thing i admire about your folks it is mend it dont fix it, we are with you. Big circle. It is going to help us. The fact of it is, hundreds of Republican Health care bills have been thrown in over the past years. You know that. A single party vote on a major piece of legislation like this is very unusual in american history. As a result has no reservoir of good will when it has very negative results with the people. I agree with you. It is going to happen in the context of the president ial race where you have a central leader. That persons philosophy. When you were in the race you used to call yourself the leader of the democrat wing of the democratic party. As we go into 2016 who is the democratic we dont know where she is going to be on the major issues. We dont know if she is going to run. We know her pretty well. Find out what she thinks, first. Is hillary your she is the unifier for the party. I didnt make the case. 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Call Liberty Mutual insurance at. [ thump ] to speak with an Insurance Expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married, move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. Personalized coverage and savings. All the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. Call. And ask about all the ways you could save. Liberty mutual insurance. Responsibility. Whats your policy . Ever vigilant not to let a chicago comomist raised, con mewist educated nurtured sub human mon grew like the Acorn Community organizer gangster Barack Hussein obama to weasel his way into the top office of authority in the United States of america. Sub human mon grew. Now, that is language from the days of slavery. I cannot for the life of myself understand why a leading republican candidate would associate in any way with somebody saying stuff like this and a guy like this. I go to you, governor. Do you think its right for abbott to embrace this guy and stand with this guy . Of course, the language is way over the top. I find it interesting if i get this straight that your problem is with a rocker and comments and s. E. , your problem is with the actual candidate. The actual candidate. So im not going to defend. Nobodys going to defend this. Its why were talking off the air why the show, would, by the way. Because you can having serious disagreement, philosophical disagreement without getting personal. People are tired of that stuff. They dont like it. Heres my concern back to you, though. This is a republican leader running to be the leader an of texas. He is grabbing on to somebody who is calling the president a sub human mon grew. Really disrespectful language. Would you do it . Of course not. Ive seen my Lieutenant Governor is mike steele. Ive seen disrespectful. Governor dean, did you want to weigh in. Two things. First of all, this doesnt help greg abbott. Texas is not the right wing nut place everybody makes it out to be. There are a lot of middle of the road people who will be turned off. I hope so. My outrage is not at a rocker. Its the gubernatorial candidate thinks this is okay. I want to thank howard dean and bob air lick for being here. Go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on todays fireback question, do you think raising the minimum wage would cost jobs. Right now 39 of you say yes, 61 say no. The debate will continue onli online cnn. Com crossfire as well as on facebook and twitter. If the left im dan jones. From the right, im s. E. Cupp. Join us tomorrow for another edition of crossfire. Erin burnett up front starts right now. Next breaking news. Violence spiraling out of control in kiev tonight. Americans warned to stay indoors. 19 dead. Well go there live. Plus, show me the money. Chris christie cancels a town hall today but has time for a fundraiser. And mike rowe on his controversial walmart ad. Why account champion for the working man is proud to be a sellout. Lets go outfront. Good evening