Transcripts For CNNW Erin Burnett OutFront 20141204

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grand jury decision not to indict a white police officer in the death of an unarmed black man. their struggle is all caught on video. right now i want to show you live pictures of the protests. they are large and growing in response to the decision not to indict. the story comes down to this. cell phone video captured in july. what it shows is a 43-year-old man, eric garner, who he was suspected of selling cigarettes on a street in staten island when police moved to arrest him. garner raised his hands in the air but told officers not to touch him and they tried to subdue him, including one, officer daniel pantaleo. you see him grabbing garner in what looks like a chokehold, a tactic prohibited by the new york police department. garner weighs 350 pounds, he was athletic and had a heart condition and you can hear him saying there, i can't blereathei can't breathe. he had a heart attack on the way to the hospital and died there. the medical examiner ruled it a homicide but the grand jury decided not to indict. and the police is out in force and the day shift officers were placed on over time and there is the rockefeller christmas tree lighting scheduled to be broadcast across the nation in an hour. and joe is near staten island where he was killed and we begin with deborah in time square. what is going on there? >> we were in time square and now we are in new york city. and you can see they are chabting. and they are penning people and funneling everybody in the same direction. to try to keep crowd control. and they have set up a complete perimeter around rockefeller center. we couldn't get -- we couldn't get close to radio city music hall and can't get close to the tree and the police had barricades so as protesters came, you were stacked into certain areas. there are protesters here. [ chanting ] >> and they are going to be here for a while. a lot of them holder folks, students. we are hearing there will be protesters coming out at 7:00 and a second wave of all of this going on through the night, getting toward the christmas tree. the police are in full force. >> and i hear them behind you, yelling no justice, no tree. this lighting of the rockefeller center christmas tree will be broadcast around the nation and many protesters want to get there and some want to disrupt that. what did police do to try to put a barricade up there? >> absolutely, you can see, there is massive crowd control going on here. we saw a corrections vehicle being brought in where they used to transport prisoners. we did not see anybody put into the van but we are now approaching 5th avenue and the crowds were such at one point they disbursed because everybody got lost and went in different directions. so now everybody is close to 5th avenue and can you see the stores here and they are all lit up. you have a combination of people who have come to see the tree lighting. they are not getting anywhere near it and neither are the protesters. so a very fluid situation but the police right now definitely keeping everybody funneled and together and making sure they don't get near the tree. >> thank you very much deb. and the family of eric garner expressing the outrage of the grand jury not indicting the 43-year-old father of six. joe stanton is live outside where this incident happened. what has the family said so far since the grand jury decision came down late today? >> i think the reactions are about what you would expect, erin, quite frankly. this is the place where a lot of people have been showing up. it is not quite as loud as where deb was, not as boisterous, but people want to be heard. i saw just a few minutes ago the new york councilwoman deborah rose here speaking. but earlier, the father of eric garner came out here and he addressed this crowd very briefly. he didn't have a lot to say. he said he was hopeful that the federal investigation will give them a little bit more than what they wanted in terms of justice as it progresses. but when i talked to him, he also expressed concerns that he didn't want anything here in new york to turn violent. he's concerned about that. he doesn't want people here to go through what his family has gone through since july when that altercation occurred out here in the street. listen. >> i don't want no reason for nobody to get locked up and go through the same [ bleep ], that we have all of the time. >> what do you think happens next in have you talked to the lawyers a little bit about where -- >> well the feds are going to take over. >> and you are hopeful? >> yes. i'm hopeful they will give us the right decision. >> now the widow of eric garner has also spoken out. she was spoken to apparently on the telephone by one of the local newspapers and here is what she said in part. oh, my god, are you serious? this was apparently a reaction to learning the news of what the grand jury had decided. she said i'm very disapointed. you can see in the video he was dead wrong. that is referring to the officer involved in the altercation. the grand jury kept interviewing witnesses but you didn't need witnesses, you can be a witness for yourself. and this is oh, my god and then used an expletive, and this is crazy. >> thank you very much. and none john hill and jeff hostetter and joining me on the phone is the editor in chief of global blind marching with the protesters tonight. but what i want to do is play that video. no matter what you think about it, it is hard to watch. brought tears to my eyes as i watched it again and again. i want to play it with the sound up so everyone around the country who hasn't seen this before can see it and get your own point of view and then we're going to talk about it. here it is. >> hold on. >> don't touch me. don't touch me. [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. >> damn, man. >> all right, stop, stop. >> let me see your hands, buddy. put your hands behind your head. >> i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. i can't breathe. >> once again, police beating up on people right here. >> back up and get on that step. >> back up. >> that is hard to watch. no matter what you think of it. it is incredibly difficult to watch and what happened before you saw that was a back and forth where mr. garner is talking to the cops and saying leave me alone, you guys are always arresting me. he did have an arrest record for petty crime. in this case they say he was trying to illegally sell cigarettes. sonny, you are a lawyer and watched that video tape from start to finish and know the charges. were you surprised the grand jury chose not to indict? >> i was absolutely stunned. when you look at the video tape, what else do you need. clearly to me you see excessive force and an overreaction from the police department and so many people are talking about the fact that he was resisting arrest. this officer took him down with a chokehold from behind when his hands were up. so i see an unarmed man being nonaggressive, a chokehold which is a banned practice and i hear eric garner saying 11 times i cannot breathe. i know that a medical examiner ruled it a homicide. it is all on video. we see him die. yet, no one is held responsible. there is no indictment. i mean, i see an indictment of our legal system that point. this just doesn't make sense to me. i'm still stunned. >> jeff, when you look at it. it is hard to understand how this could happen. this is a conversation where he is saying guys, leave me alone. leave me alone. he is not just unarmed and not even being aggressive. should the officer being indicted? >> clearly mr. garner didn't want to submit to arrest and the officers are left with a decision, how do we take this gentleman into custody using the least amount of force necessary. they chose to use open-hand tactics and sometimes even nonlethal force has a bad out come. we've seen people tazed that have unfortunately died. i mean the lesson to learn in ferguson and new york is don't resist the police and these could have been avoided. >> and it you take that argument, you can't have a conversation with them, which is what he was doing before the man came up behind him, as sonny pointed out, and put him in the chokehold. >> that is the problem here. should you resist the police? no. should you sell lucys on the street? no. but if you are black and outside, it can be a capital crime. the police did not use the path of least resistance. they came up behind him and choked him out and we all saw it out on video tape and now we are having a conversation about what we saw wasn't what happened here. with the case of michael brown and oscar brandt, and the leash is so long, it is the extra judicial killing of blacks in public space. some people commit crimes. but you don't have to be perfect not to die at the hand of law enforcement. that is why so many people's hearts are broken. i'm up here in harlem and people are devastated. and i am stunned. after michael brown, this is exactly what i expected nirks terms of the grand jury, there were 14 white members, nine non-white members in staten island. in the county where this happened, the population 78% white and 12% black. do you think that played a part in this? >> without more transparency, quite frankly, with the grand jury and how it was presented to the grand jury, i can't dev definitively say that. we do know in new york, a native, staten island is the most conservative bureau and it is predominantly white and new york city has a history of terrible police practices, including the stop and frisk that a federal judge found to be in excess. in september our police commissioner told the city council that officers are too aggressive when policing minority neighborhoods. we know there was a racial component and whether it was part of the grand jury decision, i don't know. but i do know there must be a special prosecutor, quite frankly, when you have police officer-involved shootings or deaths. you must have it. because you can't expect prosecutors who have a very close relationship with police officers to present grand juries. >> and jeff, when we look at that video and you see the officer daniel pantaleo who has not been indicted come up behind eric garner and put his arm around him in that chokehold and then you hear multiple times eric garner saying i can't breathe, i can't breathe but they don't remove the chokehold. how is that defensible? i know it is hard you weren't there, but when you saw it, what did you think about that? >> i don't claim to know as much about this case as i do the michael brown case. and sonny shouldn't present she knows some sinister things going on behind closed doors in the grand jury just like i don't pretend to know what evidence was presented there. those grand jurors heard the evidence and they deliberated and they reached a verdict and that is how our system works. i hope that the prosecutors in new york release information from the grand jury proceedings so we can have the same sort of transparency we did in st. louis. but that didn't do anything here to keep the crowd response from evolving to terrible violence. >> all eyes are on new york city as the crowds gather. thank you very much to all three of you. next we are live on the streets of new york city. violence growing and heavy police on hand. and standing by in harlem, the family of eric garner will be visited by al sharpton. and one minute he was selling cigarettes on a police corner and the next hour he was dead at the hands of police. ahead, who was eric garner? 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are awaiting both of those. the minute they start we'll bring them to you live. but the failing encounter that led to all of this was caught on tape. eric garner raised both of his hands and officers put him if a chokehold, the officer from behind daniel pantaleo put him in the chokehold and the medical examiner later ruled the death a homicide. the grand jury heard that and other evidence and decided he was not guilty. and joining me, lamont hill, where the family will shortly be addressing the nation. harry, let me start with you. when you watch this, you can see it accelerated quickly. it started leave me alone. you guys are always picking on me. harmless conversation. and then a guy comes from behind him and the officer daniel pantaleo puts him in a chokehold and gets him down on the ground and he says i can't breathe. i can't breathe. appropriate use of force? >> certainly. because he is now resisting arrest. when a police officer tells you you are under arrest, you are supposed to comply. when he didn't comply, when the officer saw him getting restless, the officer came behind him and basically that is not a chokehold. i used to wrestle, that is not a chokehold. if he was in a real chokehold, he couldn't be able to say he couldn't breathe because it cuts off the blood. >> so you are saying a real chokehold would have been worse? >> a real chokehold, yes. if it was a real chokehold, but it was not. >> when you see it paul, a real chokehold? does it make a difference? >> it makes it a big difference. nypd prohibit chokeholds. the chokehold is not illegal in new york, but the cops say we don't want you to use it because it is a dangerous kind of hold. i don't have the expertise to characterize whether that was a chokehold or not. i do have to agree this was a suspect placed under arrest and the police sl the right to -- police have the right to put the cuffs on him and take him into custody. >> please go ahead. >> i think we're using sem aboutics on what a chokehold or not a chokehold. but the medical examiner ruled death by homicide, compression of check and compression of prone positioning during physical restraint by police. so i think we're sort of getting into the weeds of whether this was a chokehold or not. i do believe when i look at it from a former prosecutor's perspective, it is clear to me that that was the use of excessive force. i don't know, and i'm sure, officer, you will disagree with me, when you talk about resisting arrest, i've seen a lot of resisting arrest cases and we are having a man with his hands up saying don't touch me. you can't say it is not excessive for an officer to come up from behind, choke him, use a tactic that has been banned by police procedure -- in police procedure and somehow say that that was an appropriate use of force. i'm sort of surprised. >> how do you -- >> let me say something. what a lot of people don't understand is that man was a big man. now i'm a big guy, all right. 6'4", 220 pounds and i worked up in harlem back in the ear early '80s. when you take a guy like that down, the only way to take him down is by the neck, all right. unless you want me to beat him with a night stick. >> but those guys were all in great shape. >> it doesn't matter. >> he was overweight and clearly not a fighter. >> i've had cases where little guys and four or five guys like me couldn't handcuff the guy. >> but what about taking him down and the escalation of force. >> the law clearly states and as you do know, also, mrs. prosecutor, that a police officer may use what force he needs to effect a legal arrest. okay, once the police officer started to feel themselves in danger by saying, get away from me, why are you always bothering me, you have to take this guy down. he could have just turned around, he could have just turned around and put his hands behind his back and be handcuffed and he would be alive today. >> was he being aggressive? >> of course that is being aggressive. if you have a police officer working the street, okay, and you don't know now what is he going to do? pull out a knife or a gun? you don't know as an officer what that man is capable of doing against you. >> so let's have a context here. mark lamont hill, we know he was arrested more than 30 times for petty crimes and at least to my knowledge, none of those times was he armed, the officers sort of knew him, being armed, i don't really believe was a question here, was it? >> being armed wasn't a question and the police record wasn't a question and the police officers didn't have the benefit of that knowledge there. and i'm not a police officer but i think it is difficult to reach for a knife when your hands are in the air. and the officers had to choose between beating him with a night stick or choking him to death and perhaps there is a third option is they do neither. and surely eric garner could not have left the house that day and made different choices but selling lucys and putting his hands up in the air, to him choking is not semantics. >> when he is on the ground and what appears to be a chokehold -- forget the word. he's on the ground and he says i can't breathe. he is clearly having trouble breathing and they push his head into the ground. >> first of all, he to get the man handcuffed. >> why would you not back off with a second. >> now the guy is going to run away and you have to take him down again. because he says he can't breathe. when you say you can't breathe, you are breathing. a lot of people don't understand that. but you are breathing when you say you can't breathe. >> erin, i think -- >> are you shocked by this decision when you put it altogether? >> i was shocked by the video tape when i first saw it. because it clearly looked like excessive force. however, when you started looking into the back story, and you start to speak to police officers, they do say, listen, he was being arrested, it was a lawful arrest and unlike what lamont hill said, he didn't have his hands up in surrounder, he was saying backoff. and what he said in the tape, you harassed me before and it is going to stop today. that sounds to me like someone who is saying i'm going to resist you and he does that by putting his hands up. but putting all of that aside, the thing that is most trouble some is the thing about him saying he cannot breathe. i understand they have a right to bring him down. but when he is saying, please, i can't breathe, i can't breathe, it seems to me you could say it is reckless conduct, not to accommodate him, if he's having trouble breathing and certainly a 400 pound guy on the ground is not surprising that he would have that problem. and one more thing, because we talked about the chokehold and how could the grand jury not have indicted in this case. the autopsy says cause of death, chokehold, suspect in prone position. that means the suspect was on the ground. there is nothing illegal about a cop putting a suspect on the ground. that is standard operating procedure and chest compression. so i expect the grand jury is saying we can't indict one cop who allegedly did a chokehold when maybe because he was on the ground and he had chest compression was the cause of death. so the medicine here is not as clear-cut as people would like to have you believe. >> stand by all of you. >> [ inaudible ]. >> i think it is pretty clear. >> and many on the streets of new york tonight. and next we are standing by. we have two live news conferences. we are expecting a statement from the attorney general of the united states, eric holder. and also the garner family is going to speak on today's decision not to indict on the chokehold death of eric garner. we are standing by. and the death of the unarmed black man is now the focus of civil rights protests days after the ferguson protests began. who was eric garner? we'll have a full report. i have a cold with terrible chest congestion. better take something. theraflu severe cold doesn't 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creating more innovation and competition. we're for net neutrality protection. now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. breaking news and welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. you are looking at a live picture right now of where -- of new york city, these are protests going on as we speak. mass crowds have been gathering here in new york in response to a verdict -- an indictment, a choice not to indict a white police officer in the death of an unarmed black man. we also want to show you attorney general eric holder, le be speaking live hopefully in moments at that podium you see there. eric garner, the unarmed black man who was killed when that police officer put him in a chokehold is expected to speak any moment in harlem. his family will be speaking. and we want to update our viewers on the breaking news story. earlier today, a grand jury in new york cleared the white police officer in the death of eric garner. again, eric garner was not armed. we are seeing heavy police presence here in times square and rockefeller center where the tree lighting will be shown around the nation and protesters are intending to shut that down. and as we get ready for the attorney general to speak. and i want to bring in van jones, and sunny hostin. shocked or surprised by the decision? >> shocked. if this is okay, something is desperately wrong with our country. if this is okay for a man to be choked to death over selling cigarettes and i don't care -- you have that double speak from law enforcement, it is very bad for law enforcement to come out and defend that kind of thing. come out and say maybe he was within his rights but what kind of judgment are you showing as an officer when you have a big man on the ground and choking him and he said he can't breathe and you don't give him relief. that is unlawful and just so inhuman and horrible. we have to have a honest conversation about what is human life? i'm from a law enforcement family. my dad was a cop in the military. my ufrpgle is a police officer. i don't want any cop to get hurt. but if you keep lowering the standard. this officer has already been sued before and he's cost the city $30,000. he was using a technique that was out-lawed -- banned in the department and you are still defending him and this man is now dead. this is the kind of thing that has to stop. >> and sowny, what can the attorney general say? the attorney gem is about to speak, as new york is about to get dark, on a grand jury not indicting a white police officer? >> i think it is significant and it is significant that he is likely to say there is a federal investigation underway into this death. we have seen historically successful prosecutions after unsuccessful state prosecutors. we saw it in rodney king. >> it hasn't happened with trayvon martin. >> it hasn't happened but historically it has been succ s successful so i think that will give people some relief. and i think he needs to set the tone because we know people are fed up. this is a continuum now we are seeing. we saw trayvon martin, jordan davis, and eric garner, michael brown. the list goes on and on. and as a community, for people of color, as the african-american community looks on and on, we are looking for real leadership here in terms of law enforcement and he is our chief law enforcement officer. >> for the united states. and elsy, what is the significance of the attorney general speaking tonight and does it show hesitation, perhaps uncertainty at the highest levels of the u.s. about what the reaction on the streets might be to this grand jury decision after what we saw in ferguson last week? >> i think it is very important for eric hold tore make sure that once he gets done talking about the emotional part of people's response to this, that he makes very clear some definitive steps that the federal government can take. and not just addressing what is happening here in staten island, but again, nationally. we've said this time and time again, this is an american problem, it is not a ferguson problem or a staten island problem, it is an american problem. so it is important for him to lay out some very concrete steps that will happen next so that people know this isn't about rhetoric but about action. >> van, how can they make the point about rhetoric and not action. and the president of the united states said this will be different this time. but this is now at least the third time that the world has very publicly seen this sort of thing happen? >> well, i think we've got to deal now with the fact we have a lack of checks and balances here. any human system with no checks or balances tends toward corruption and abuse. and that is why you have meat inspectors and building inspectors, but not because you hate butchers or construction workers, but you have to have somebody overseeing. what is happening now, you have police and prosecutors policing themselves. the federal government has to step in. until someone goes to jail and has handcuffs put on them, there will be an atmosphere of impunity. everybody is concerned about lawless protesters tonight. i am too. but i'm also concerned about lawless policing. and when you send a signal you are more concerned about the protesters and they've got to obey the law, then you are concerned about police obaying the law, that is a very dangerous road for a country to be on. a very dangerous road. >> and eric holder is coming out to speak. let's us listen to the attorney general of the united states speak live. >> good evening. i want to update regarding the case of eric garner, a staten island resident who died tragically in july of this year. since mr. garner's death, the united states attorney's office for the eastern district of new york, the civil rights division and the federal bureau of investigation have been monitoring the local case closely while allowing the local investigation led by the district attorney's office in staten island to proceed first. earlier today, the grand jury declined to return an indictment in this case. now that the local investigation has concluded, i'm here to announce that the justice department will proceed with a federal civil rights investigation into mr. garner's death. this afternoon, i spoke with the widow of eric garner to inform her and her family of our decision to investigate potential federal civil rights violations. i've also been in touch with president obama as well as mayor de blasio regarding our decision. prosecutors will conduct an independent, thorough, fair and expeditious investigation. in addition to performing our own investigative work, the department will conduct a complete review of the material gathered during the local investigation. now, we've all seen the video of mr. garner's arrest. his death, of course, was a tragedy. all lives must be valued. all lives. mr. garner's death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have testified the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. this is not a new york issue. nor a ferguson issue alone. those who have protested peacefully across our great country following the grand jury's decision in ferguson have made that very clear. as a brother of a retired police officer, i know in a personal way about the bravery of the men and women in uniform who put their lives at risk every day to protect public safety. the vast majority of our law enforcement officers perform their duties honorably and are committed to respecting their fellow citizens' civil rights as they carry out their very challenging work. it is for their sake as well that we must seek to heal the breakdown in trust that we have seen. early this week i traveled to atlanta to begin a series of interactions to begin this process and officials around the country and at every level of the united states department of justice will continue this vital ongoing work. as the justice departments independent investigations into the deaths of michael brown and eric garner proceed, i will continue these conversation as we seek to restore trust, to rebuild understanding and to foster cooperation between law enforcement and the communities they serve. now i know that substantial numbers of people in new york and across the country will be disappointed and will be frustrated by the outcome of the state grand jury proceedings today. i know many will plan to voice their disappointment publicly through protests. this is the right. this is the right of all americans. but as i have said before, throughout our history, the most successful movements are those that adhere to the principles of nonviolence. i urge all of those inclined to demonstrate tonight and in the days ahead, to remain peaceful in the demonstrations and not to engage in activities that deflect our attention from the serious matters that our nation must confront. thank you. >> and that was the attorney general of the united states eric holder announcing that the justice department is going ahead with a -- a federal investigation into whether civil rights were violated in the eric garner death. sunny. i know you expected him to do that. >> sure. >> his choice to do so tonight in prime time live as protesters are gathering shows -- as he talks about he wants nonviolence, a fear that that is not how things would go? >> no question about it. we're right on the heels of ferguson where we saw the rioting and the looting and the fires and where we saw actions that we don't condone, of course, but actions that reflect a true frustration and disenchantment with the justice system. and now we are seeing this again. and it is smart to set the tone to say the federal government is now look at this but to explain that while protesting is your right as an american, it is your constitutional right, you have to do it peacefully. >> paul calan, the last time a police officer was charged with a chokehold in 1994 and he was quitted in state court. the forward system went ahead with a charge and charged him with seven years in prison. could that happen to daniel pantaleo, the white officer not indicted? >> in that case, the baez case, he was over weight and subdued by a police officer in the bronx who used a chokehold and he died as a result. he was indicted and tried before a judge in the bronx and the bronx judge found him not guilty. the federal government indicted for civil rights violations, his name was officer laugh otty and so -- >> and so you think this is -- >> and this was directly on point. and a civil suit of $3 million was awarded to the family of the suit. and bear in mind, i don't know all of the facts of the case and nobody in this room knows because the grand jury heard the case for three months. we saw the film, which is about a 30-second film, a one-had the fi -- a one-minute film and i don't know if we've heard from the d.a., donovan, yet. and he is a straight shooting guy and we need to hear more from him about the grand jury. >> and when you watch the video, you say is there anything more you need to see. the grand jury did. they were looking at this for months. next, we are standing by for the family of eric garner, the unarmed man killed in the chokehold and they are expected to speak after the grand jury decided not to indict the nypd officer in his death. and we are watching protesters gather in new york city tonight with their arms up as you can see in that video that eric garner's were and the context of his hands and whether they were up in surrender or not is very important. we'll be right back. 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[ chanting ] >> tonight new yorkers take to the streets to protest a grand jury's decision not to indict police officer daniel pantaleo over his actions in staten island in july. >> it is a very emotional day for our city. >> the outrage is from the video tape of the death of eric garner that was video taped by a bystander. eric garner, a 300 black man, 43-year-old father of six, was suspected of selling cigarettes tax-free. he was put in a chokehold, an act prohibited by the nypd. later garner who suffers from asthma is taken to the hospital and later declared death. the medical examiner ruled the death a homicide. the cause of death was, quote, compression of neck, chokehold and compression of chest during physical restraint by police. >> this was an arrest for an extremely minor crime and it seems to many people the police should pay a price for that kind of arrest ending in a death. >> reporter: following the grand jury decision, the officer daniel pantaleo released a statement extending his condolences to the family. quote, it is never my intention to harm anyone and i feel very bad about the death of mr. garner. it is a case that is drawing parallels to ferguson, missouri, where fiery protests erupted less than two weeks ago after a grand jury did not indict a white police officer, darren wilson, after he shot and killed the black unarmed teenager michael brown. new york city mayor bill de blasio promised a full airing of the fakes by the nypd and the federal government. eric garner's mother called for calm. >> i won't want them to tear up the town, but, you know, this has to stop. >> reporter: people obviously want to know more about how the grand jury reached the decision, but the district attorney, the prosecutor here says he can't release any more information until he has a court order because grand jury deliberations are secret. he has asked for that order. erin. >> joe johns thank you very much. and we are standing by for eric garner's family. we are expecting them to speak at any moment in harlem. we are awaiting that. we are looking at a live picture. we'll be right back with that, after this. to help spread some holiday cheer. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time; and 2% back at the grocery store. thank you! even before they got 3% back on gas, all with no hoops to jump through, a couple was inspired to use their bankamericard cash rewards credit card to throw the ultimate ugly sweater party of the season. that's the spirit of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you. introducing... a pm pain reliever that dares to work all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. the bed reacts to your body. it hugs you. it's really cool to the touch. this zips off so i can wash it-yes, please. (vo) visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic difference for yourself. in new york city. this is columbus circle. one of the main circles in the city. time warner center where cnn is on the side of the circle. on the other side is central park. the gateway to the west side and all of nid town. you can see protesters coming through. traffic obviously affected by this. it's an incredibly heavy police presence. paul kallen, as you see these crowds gather and gather. it's worth reminding people what's at stake tonight. that the importance of all of this remaining peaceful, under control, there not being altercations between police and protesters. >> we know when you get the destructive behavior by crowds that it doesn't accomplish anything. it's not going to increase the likelihood of a federal indictment. it accomplishes really nothing and everybody has the right to express opinions. peaceful demonstrations are a good thing in this country but they have to stay peaceful. >> outside where you are looking right now in columbus circle marching. michael, what is the goal? what is happening down there? >> reporter: i wish i could be up there with you guys but i have to be with the incredibly young people down in the city. young and older folks exercising their first amendment rights. a lot of pain happening right now. folks are upset and trying to express that in a peaceful way. march in the city so far. everything has gone okay. difficult for a lot of people. the garner family. we show that we will not stand for injustice. >> michael, where are you going? what is your plan? obviously, we can see that some of the crowd just moved through columbus circle now. i guess, tell me exactly where you are headed. >> we are headed, right now, below you guys and about 500 of us traveling walking west at the moment but we will be going through the city by showing the entire city that we're deeply disappointed with the decision of the grand jury and won't stop until we get justice. >> paul, when you hear michael say this and he's down there leading this, 500 people in this one part of new york city. for people to understand there are protests in times square and staten island, many places of this city tonight. what is -- what do you see when you see these crowds going through traffic at this point? obviously not in any sort of crowd controlled zone. >> the thing i find about it, what's most disturbing about it is we've got a system in the country that has been working for, you know, since 1776, i suppose when the revolution stafrted and it's based on this idea that we have a grand jury that's reflective of the community that looks at cases to decide whether charges should be brought or not. now, the system fails sometimes and it fails horribly sometimes. but i don't know what a better system would be. who would decide whether an arrest was made, the mayor? the governor? somebody else, some political figure? certainly not the crowd in the street. i think in the end, i want a system where ordinary citizens are listening to evidence and making a decision, the best decision they can. that's the system we have now. it makes mistakes but hope in the end it gets it right in this case. >> michael, how long do you plan to be out there tonight? >> i got here this morning. the system, best in the world, but doesn't mean you can't fight for a better one. black and white, fight until the day we die until we have the best system of the world. exercise our first amendment right in our constitution, willfully and peacefully. >> but, you know, what is the better system? it's easy to say we could have a better design. we've got to design one and i'm not hearing a suggestion about how we make it work better. i mean, we can train the police better and new york certainly tried to do that. we're banning the chokehold in new york. it's illegal in terms of police regulations. the law hasn't made it a crime in new york. in a lot of states, by the way, it's still being trained. police officers are trained to use the chokehold. so maybe this case will send a message to other parts of the country that it shouldn't be used at all if it is used. so there are lessons that are going to be taken from this case. in terms of the criminal justice system and how we make it work better, it's a system of human beings and we just have to work with the system and structure we have to make it reflect everybody's sense of justice. >> one thing we know tonight is that there are many, many people, thousands, hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions who feel disenfranchised, they have they are not being heard. you heard the attorney general of the united states speaking live tonight saying there is now a federal civil rights investigation into this case as the protesters are gathering and marching here in new york city, the world will be watching. thank you so much for joining us tonight. we have much more of our breaking news coverage continuing right now with ac 360. >> erin, thanks very much. for the second time in nine days, people are protesting in the biggest media spotlight on earth reacting to a grand jury's decision not to indict a white police officer in the death of an african-american man. you can debate the rightness of those decisions. our director, spike lee, certainly will. no argument here from this. the crowds on all sides of the issue president obama on down and new york city staten island today, matters very deeply. today staten island grand jury decided not to indict the police officer of garner. the allegations of garner selling tax-free loose cigarettes or

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