President trumps furious reaction to facebooks action shows that he is, im sorry to say, but info wars president. He is promoting the same alternative in info wars and sharing videos from repugnant characters. Full of fear mongering and conspiracy theorizing info wars tells viewers that the world is out to get him. Jones shows lies about sandy hook massacre but none of this hurts President Trump. Info wars personality align with him. He even gave an interview to alex jones back on the campaign trail. Trump went on a twitter spree saying, its so great to watch this while sharing a video from info wars. He repeatedly retweeted paula joseph watson, one of the info war figures banned by facebook. He retweet the a strange video about islam. This is troubling stuff, a lot of it is troubling stuff. At the same time the president is decrying facebooks action. Facebook decided to block six users as well as info wars as an organization. The highprofile names include nation of islam leader Louis Farrakhan. Six people, one organization banned and its not just facebook. Trump has been complaining about twitter, how Twitter Suspends or briefly puts accounts into a timeout period. Hes complaining about james wood, the actor and rightwing actor star who is on a twitter timeout. Look, the president is clearly trying to tap into conservative concerns about rightwing censorship. How real are those concerns, though . How legitimate is this and how is facebook deciding who should be banned in the first place . Joining me to discuss this is oliver darcy, cnn contributor irin caram. On and judd legum. Judd, let me start with you. You talked in the past about the president and hinfo wars. Trump is doing this because he needs people to believe that facebook is against him. And that facebook is biased against him because thats the only way that he has the space to operate on facebook. His campaign, the 2020 campaign, he put the strategist in charge of his facebook strategy, who is now the campaign manager. Theyre instituting exactly what they did in 2016, which is a whole series of ads that are misleading. And so if they go after info wars, if they go after milo or any of these folks, hell be next. Thats why hes doing that because he needs to be able to draw a he cant let them draw a distinction between what info wars is doing and what nbc or cnn or any Mainstream Media organization is doing. Even though what we get from info wars is Conspiracy Theory crap. In the wake of the notre dame fire, alex jones was talking about if it was arson, how the rest of the media was lying to you about what happened. Oliver, try to distinguish for us between when we talk about these topics and talk about these figures, why is it the six individuals were banned by facebook . What makes them different from from others . These are very extreme individuals. No matter what anyone tells you, they are extremists and thats why with facebook decided to get rid of them from the platform the other day. Back to your point about the info wars presidency, i want to know, i tweeted, whats the difference at this point between trumps twitter feed and inforwars. Com . Infowars might have been banned from twitter but it found a new home at trumps twitter feed. While hes promoting and legitimizing this News Organization we should talk about how hes trying to tear down credible sources for news, the Washington Post, New York Times, cnn. He was questioning why these News Organizations have the ability to be on twitter. Why are they not banned . Right. Saying infowars should be reinstated. Fake news is real, real news is fake. Do you see an answer to olivers question . I think there might be a challenge with respect to the framing. The category cal condemnation, its extremist, racist, antisemitic. I think judging and parsing the context of particular claims, particular assertions from different outlets, people is totally different. Scrutinizing, however, just the broader concern that is starting to be raised in a lot of different circles with respect to censorship, highlighting that is very important. Speech is dangerous. There are ideas unsavory that he we dont like. Of course, facebook shouldnt be coerced into associating with people against their own desires. But the fact that speech can be dangerous, i think its far more dangerous to engage in censorship. Its far more dangerous to have a culture that becomes so opposed to having anyone with unsavory views, have a place to be able to share their views, to be able to promote their views. Argument is meet those views with other views. Meet them with other views. Whats your reaction . I think actually weve had an experiment in a kind of free market of ideas and it has failed. I think so. But the capitalist model of, like, this will you know, there will be a clash of ideas and everyone will be able to figure out which ones are good or not, thats what got us comet pizza. Im not sure that leaves you with. What does that leave you with . Who gets to sanction what is appropriate for us to hear . Right now facebook im suggesting that im suggesting that facebook can continue to make their own determinations. They should. Im saying especially here in places where people are getting media that is appropriate for us to always be skeptical of an approach that says, if someone has ideas, if someone says are dodgy, they shouldnt be allowed to share those ideas. That is a problem. But i think is the idea does facebook i think the idea is does facebook get to have rules . Of course. What does facebook do . Do they just ignore the fact these people have broken the rules or are they going to be consistent . Will they get disciplined, is that censorship or there is Something Else happening where we are bleeding into a circumstance where we say, oh, that is obvious antisemitic. That person is an extremist. Were obviously anticipating can i respond to this . Judd, let me bring you in in washington. Go ahead. I was just going to say, the idea that sandy hook is a hoax and that the children who were murdered on that day is were actors is not promoted by infowars. Thats not an idea. Thats not something that needs to be debated on facebook or on cnn or anywhere. And that is what is going on. So, then to just abstract it all and say, this is a marketplace of ideas. We just need to discuss this. These are not ideas. Its a hoax that its a conspiracy. You confront bad ideas with good ideas. You confront people who are saying things that you dont like in the Public Square. You dont pretend you can abolish them to the depths of the internet and they wont be they wont have a voice anymore. I think the evidence its far more dangerous. The evidence shows to allow them to proliferate on these platforms is allowing them to be legitimized and grow willing. Milo, for example, when he was taking off certain platforms he was selfcensored. His financial viability diminished vastly. I think allowing these ideas to circulate on platforms owned by private companies, theyre finally its a little too late but theyre finally taking responsibility for the fact that like any media company, they have the responsibility for setting rules, following them and making sure that Dangerous Things are not happening on their platform. When the president complains what do you think should not have been banned . The reason i try to take this away from the specific issues and go a bit broader because there are times where civil rights have been things that were alex jones is not a civil rights promoter. Alex jones lets acknowledge the fact that the kind of speech that needs to be protected is always at the margins. Im not asking about the abstractions. Im asking i agree with you. I think what were struggling with, is someone recently remarked that perhaps, perhaps im saying perhaps about this, perhaps the internet is to the First Amendment what the ak47 is to the second amendment. Something that was not imagined or fathomed 200 years ago when our constitution was founded. That does not mean we have to make drastic changes but the world were living in is something that could not have been foreseen. I think thats a very dangerous perspective, quite frankly. I think the fact is that abolitionists once they got their hands on the Printing Press were using it to promote ideas that were very, very radical, that one could say are dangerous. There are people who were fighting for the abolition of slavery who could be described as dangerous radicals, who were willing to promote violence in order to achieve their brian i dont think give me one second. I do think facebook should have rules. Absolutely. So what what do you think should happen to someone if they repeatedly violate facebooks rules . I think facebook gets to make their own rules. They are. But what do you, if youre in charge people who are in the pundit class that we ought to always be acknowledging the fact that, yes, we are going to use preassociation to make it deeply make expense si facebook they would argue, theyre not banning ideas. Theyre banning people who are repeatedly, right, violating the rules. Its clearly laid out there. I think thats true. What do you think when one what do you my response is only cheerlead and not raise some concern about the fact that broader i totally agree that people should in condemning people categorically and getting rid of them in the public when they Say Something we dont like. Its always a consequence. Its one of those things where the margins can actually grow. Facebook court that could hash this stuff out. Bottom line, facebook has rules. If you break those rules, theyll take action against you. Im not raising any issue with that. Its not a government relationship. Its free speech. Judd, one more thought on this from you. The president is saying its getting worse and worse for conservatives specifically. Hes calling out censorship of conservatives. Is there a lot of evidence that conservatives are targeted by big tech . Not at all. If facebook is biased against conservatives, why is fox news the number one shared website on facebook . Why is the daily wire, which is a rightwing blog, and youre going to have their editorinchief on later, in the top ten . Why is it that diamond and silk get more distribution than most any other video platform . And why are they spending why is the Trump Campaign spending 200,000 or more per week on a platform thats supposedly biased against conservatives . It just doesnt make any sense. The last thing ill just say is, this isnt a First Amendment issue. This is an issue of a private company deciding what goes on their platform. Just like i dont get to go on Tucker Carlson every single night, alex jones doesnt have a right to be on facebook. You mentioned the daily wire, so let me bring in ben shapiro, the editorinchief of the daily wire. We talked about this facebook issue a little earlier. Whats your view about the company taking action against these highprofile facebook pages and basically just deleting this em from the internet . Well, im troubled by the fact that facebook cant articulate a clear standard by which it decides who gets to stay and who gets to go. Theyre a private company. They can do what they want to a certain extent. I mean, if they dont want to be considered publishers like cnn is a publisher or daily wire is a publisher, that meenlz there has to be some sort of objective metric to determine if someone gets kicked off or stay on. If they get to exercise editorial judgment from top down, which views are okay and which are not, they should be treated like any other publisher. I dont see any articulated standard. People that have targeted me personally and expressed hate to me personally is not relevant to the question of whether they should be prohibited from the public discourse. In my view is facebook should hold to First Amendment standard, clear definition of incitement to violation. That would be banned. Copyright violation would be banned. The idea you can police hate, just hate, anything you find hateful, thats a pretty broad definition over how much we argue over what we consider is hateful and how much political speech should be included in that ruberratic. What they call organized hate and thats what they say infowars is ingauengaging in. Who decides . The New York Times piece that covered the facebook ban, it explicitly talked about some figures interacted with gaven mcginnis. Lou Louis Farrakhan and snoop dogg went on instagram and released a video. Instagram is owned by facebook, and snoop called for people to post video of farrakhan who he considered a brother. To get around the slope is so slippery. Yet, at the same time, isnt there some responsibility these companies have to show to stop the sickest kinds of ideas from spreading . Well, again, i think that when you talk about the sickest kind of ideas, the best way to fight sick ideas is to fight sick ideas about talking about how terrible they are instead of casting them out and say, were never going to talk to you or answer your questions. All that does is actually, i think, maybe people more extreme who are searching for answers to questions. Instead of going to people who have good answers, they go to people who have bad answers because some people have ruled the question out of bound. Thats something Steven Pinker from harvard has said and i think its absolutely true. If its up to facebook to police violence, all for it. If youre talking about people who are actively calling for violence on other people, thats violation of the First Amendment. Thats not protected by the First Amendment. 23 theres a view that could make somebody mad enough they could go and do, thats true for virtually every political view. From Bernie Sanders to President Trumps views which some people have cited in their own violent attacks. If it becomes a situation where any political view, taken by a bad or extreme person, can now be used as an excuse for the violence such that were going to start casting out those political views, free speech is in danger as a principle. Im struck to hear you say this. A couple days after it was reported that a man was arrested by the fbi for threatening you with very explicit Death Threats. What can you tell us about that case . I cant tell you much just legally speaking because the case is still ongoing. I will say that the Death Threats were very explicit. This is one of the reasons why i think that the facebook statement where they said that they are trying to fight back against violence and hate, the c conflation of violence and hate. I was number one recipient of altrights hatred according to antidefamation league. I know what a violent threat actually looks like. I think that distinction is deeply necessary for us to preserve otherwise to equate speech with violence takes us to a deep route. Up next on reliable sources, the New York Times making big changes after apologizing for an antisemitic car sto cartoon. Is the president s spin winning . When are we going to hear from Robert Mueller . paul great. Another wireless ad. So many of them are full of this complicated, tricky language about their network and offers and blah blah blah. Look. Sprints going to do things differently. And let you decide for yourself. Theyre offering a new 100 total satisfaction guarantee. Try it out and see the savings. If you dont love it, get your money back. See . Simple. Now sprints unlimited plan comes with one of the newest phones included for just 35 a month. So switch now. For people with hearing loss, visit sprintrelay. Com for everything that i give, i get so much in return. Join our family of home instead caregivers and help make a world of difference. 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Its officially the bestselling book in the country. The Washington Post version is number one on the New York Times best sellers list. It only takes a tiny fraction of the country to hit number one. We recently polled the country and the respondents said almost no one has read the entire report. Most americans have not read any of the report. There is some in five fighting at fox about the importance of the mueller barr disagreement. Oliver, the significance of the Mueller Report in print, some people are reading it, but most are not. This begs the question for why Robert Mueller has not spoken publicly on camera yet. When is he going to testify . I dont know. It seems like hes a guy whos by the books and doesnt want to maybe break tradition and go out in front of cameras. Remember, comey got a lot of criticism for doing that with the Hillary Clinton thing. Maybe he doesnt want to repeat the same error but its giving trump the upperhand in the Public Relations debate because hes being very loud, going on twitter, doing interviews, saying this vindicates him and coloring the publics perspective on what the Mueller Report found while mueller is remaining silent. Hes basically, you know, not saying anything and has he expressed his misgivings in a letter two letters now. We know that. But very little. Do you think televised hearings would break through in this platform age . I think we live in a very distracted age. Before you get to the fact that people have different filters through which theyre watching a Certain Network versus another, its so hard for anything to be more than like a tenminute story right now. Right. Even if there were a couple viral moments that came out, ive seen this drum beat, especially from democrats that if they did have televised hearings, i think people hearing from Robert Mueller might be at another level, but even so, we no longer live in the era of watergate where were filtered through three major net woshs and everyone is watching the same thing every night and theres some political consensus, even to what were seeing covered on the news. I think we saw that on the prior segment. I think anyone whos hoping to focus the publics attention on whats inside the Mueller Report, televised hearings could only go so far. Theres a dispute about how important that is or isnt. We saw that on fox news. Heres Chris Wallace reacting to his opinion side colleagues and disagreeing with their adesment. I know some people dont think this march 27th letter is a big deal, and some opinion people, some opinion people who appear on this network who may be pushing a political agenda, but, you know, we have to deal in facts. I kind of think its a good thing we see the news anchor disputing the opinion side comments on fox. Yeah, absolutely. Any news room you want some plurality of perspectives or diversity of perspective, excuse me. I think thats a very good thing. I also think with respect to the particular controversy here, the fact is that im not certain most americans in any context at any historical epoch would have read the Mueller Report from cover to cover. Were dealing with summaries. With respect to the particular objection that was raised in muellers letter. Look, its a 400page report. You get a fourpage letter. Yes, it doesnt capture all the context and nuance. That said, we do have the entire report now with redactions. So far as i know, im not hearing any murmuring that mueller believes the report as release has downplayed the conclusions reached. In fact, its something that doesnt work particularly well for the president beyond the actual russian conspiracy questions. The other half of the report, doesnt put him in a very good light at all. I dont think barr sugar coated that, even his fourpage letter, quite frankly, when it describes that, it has the special language from the report that that talks about the fact this does not exonerate the president. Its hard for me to see this whole thing as only spinning in the president s directions. There are lots of voices talking about this. I want to turn to the fallout have the New York Times publishing of antisemitic cartoon. This was in the International Edition of the New York Times ten days ago. We reported on this. How did this get into the paper . It seems that this newspaper, the Global Edition of the New York Times, does not have as much oversight as the actual New York Times we see here in print in the city and around the country. They say only one editor picked out this cartoon and nobody else saw it before it was prind. Which is insane. You would expect some other paper, lower staff and facing cutbacks but the New York Times has been doing quite well and its the New York Times so you would think its subject to two or three editors before it goes to print. The fact one editor can make this terrible decision and not have had oversight is crazy to me. Yeah, the publisher of the times came out and listed five steps that have been taken as a result. He said theyre changing the production processes. Theyre not going to run any more syndicated cartoons. They canceled the contract with the company. Theyre taking disciplinary steps with the editor that picked up and update unconscious biased. Is that a satisfactory response . Yes. They were very transtarnt about what happened. They talked about how they are going to deal with it. Im an israeli citizen. I was born in israel. I was fourth zionist in my family. I thought the attention paid to it was disproportionate. Maybe because its the New York Times. Yes. I think they really messed up. The cartoon is inexcusable. Beyond folks like us reporting on what happened, which is important, i also saw it being cynically exploited to change the subject from the fact that just over a week ago somebody took up arms and entered a synagogue in california and killed somebody. Were talking about antisemitism in this country. By the way, it goes back very far in europe. It is a deep tradition of antisemitism in europe, homegrown. Here we also in the previous segment we havent herd any transparency or apologizing, for example, from the president of the United States coddling antisemit antisemites. I know a lot of people seized on this because they want to discredit the New York Times. I think they responded adequately and we need to see this in proportion. Thanks for being here. Quick break and then well talk about the anatomy of a smear. Sara murray is standing by with a story of dirty tricksters who tried to take down Pete Buttigieg but only hurt themselves. Be first to real time with verizon 5g ultra wideband. On verizon. Hey, who are you . Oh, hey jeff, im a car thief. What . im here to steal your car because, well, thats my job. What . What . . What . laughing what . . What . what . [crash] what . haha, it happens. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, paying for this could feel like getting robbed twice. So get allstate. And be better protected from mayhem. Like me. If you have a garden you know, weeds are lowdown little scoundrels. Draw the line with roundup. The sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. Roundup brand. Trusted for over 40 years. The latest inisnt just a store. Ty its a save more with a new kind of Wireless Network store. Its a look what your wifi can do now store. A get your questions answered by awesome experts store. Its a now theres one store that connects your life like never before store. The xfinity store is here. And its simple, easy, awesome. Welcome back to reliable sources. Im brian stelter. Now to the anatomy of a smear. Lets show you how inept political operatives tried to take down a president ial candidate and only ended up humiliating themselves. Now, with what were about to show you, keep in mind, legitimate news rooms did not take this batd butter several protrump websites did which tells you about their low standards. This is a story about Pete Buttigieg, who happens to be on the cover of Time Magazine with his husband in a groundbreaking cover. A man came up with a madeup Sexual Assault allegation against buttigieg. Heres cnns sara murray with the story behind the story. Reporter by the time hunter kelly offered cnn an oncamera interview to talk about the time Pete Buttigieg assaulted him, now kelly said was fake, mayor pete dismissed it. Im sure its not the first time somebodys going to make something up about me. You have to face that when youre in president ial politics. Reporter the madeup allegations quickly crumbled and the story of Smear Campaign emerged. According to kelly it began when jacob woll messaged kelly on instagram, do you want to be part of a political operation . Kelly, a 21yearold gay trump supporter from michigan was intrigued. On sunday he took a late flight to the washington area, paid for by wohl and jack berkman. They wanted to take down the gay south bend mayor they viewed as trumps top threat in 2020. Lets take mayor pete. Now, can he the appeal of him, obviously hes the first gay candidate, hes already kind of pushed beto out of the way as the star kaecandidate. Hes raising money hand over first. Reporter in the predawn hours monday reviewed a prewritten version of the essay saying he had been sexually assaulted by buttigieg. Kelly went to sleep. By the time he woke up 11 00 a. M. Monday, he says wohl posted it. It had 12,000 to facebook interactions. It was picked up and reshared by right wing sites Like Big League politics, infowars, news wars and the gateway pundit. The Mainstream Media wasnt reporting the claims. But by 2 00 p. M. Mayor pete was asked about them name. Gop political operative says the campaigns fast and forceful response was their best bet. The Campaign Response was an aplus. Good morning. Reporter working on ted cruzs president ial campaign, stewart knocked down tabloid tales like cruz having five mistresses and a father involved in the jfk assassination. In this day and age of social media and twitter and facebook and instagram, a lie can get all the way around the world before the truth puts its pants on. Reporter kelly returned cnns call after petes press gaggle. We pressed for more details to corroborate the claim but got no response. Later he would tell cnn wohl and berkman forced him. Who tried to fake a fake Sexual Assault allegation on Robert Mueller. My firm has launched a massive investigation. Bob mueller. Reporter around 7 30 p. M. Monday, kelly tensioned, i was set up and admitted the allegations against buttigieg were fab gated. He accused them of setting up a fake twitter account in his name to spread the story. He says kelly willy signed a statement describing the assault. He said he was trying to help kelly get the story out. All this nonsense he didnt sign or forged, all of thats not true. I think hunter is a very fine young man. I dont understand why hes now telling these lies. Reporter it was definitely something i wish i could take back going out there, kelly told cnn, but i cant so im trying to right my wrongs, let the truth be told. Now, jacob wohl has also denied he was involved in any campaign to fabricate these allegations. He said hunter kelly was sincere and insists the only reason kelly is retracting this now is because hes under pressure from his family. Its worth noting the last scheme they were involved in that had to do with the special counsel, that one was referred to the fbi. It really shows how ugly it can get out there and confusing yoen line. What did the beauty geuttigieg tell you . They said they appreciated the Mainstream Media was much month more skeptical. They didnt immediately run out there and start reporting it so that minimized the echo chamber. They had heard a week before these allegations came out that jacob wohl was out there looking for someone to make up these claims against mayor pete so they were already on alert for Something Like this coming out. Got to call this stuff out when we see it. Thanks for being here. Thanks. When we come back, more with ben shapiro. Does media leave faith out of the conversation . When you rent from national. Its kind of like playing your own version of best ball. Because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if its a better car class than the one you reserved. So no matter what, youre guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter] vo go national. Go like a pro. See what i did there . Want to brain better . Say hello to neuriva. So nice to meet you june, jay, ji, jj kay, raj, and. Ray good job, brain neuriva is a new brain supplement that combines the best of science and nature, with clinically proven ingredients that fuel five indicators of brain performance focus, accuracy, memory, learning, and concentration. Neuriva its time to brain better. Smears, bans and everything in between. Are we missing something in define in is the debate forward inward . Lets bring back editor of daily wire ben shapiro. The title of the wook is the right side of history. Its been topping the best seller list. We talked media bias and the coverage of President Trump, so i asked ben more about that as well. What are you trying to say with the new book . Is it a reaction to the ferrepitch media era were in . What the book is really trying to say is if you look at america today, were more prosperous and free than weve ever been. Were more angry. Were ticked off all the time. Whats going on here . My main thesis is we used to have common values that built a social fabric. The book is a view of the common valuations, the evolution of American Values that i think starts at mt. Sinai and stretches forward through greek rationality and intention with one another is what built the west. We need to go back with wreen and faith as opposed to dismissing faith as theocratic nonsense. We need both of those things. Working together and in intention with one another to continue to build the structure thats created all of our freedom and pros sparety. Stalking about faith and religion. Its oftentimes a blind spot for the american media. Its an ongoing disappointment for me and i think for other people as well, these topics are not more front and center in the Public Square that the press creates. I mean, i totally agree with this. Its really a serious problem because, unfortunately, the media, because theyre located where theyre located, because people who tend to go to j school are people who tend to be more secular in organization, people who go to university send toing more secular in organization. There is a huge blind spot which bleeds to antagonistic relationship and mislabel anybody whos religious is a bigot. If we just got rid of the religion we would be able to get beyond the bigotry. I dont think thats an accurate assessment of what church means to people. People on the coasts very often tend to be very bly about the social fabric created, and as that fades away, a big gap is left and thats not being filled by facebook. Coverage comes across as way too neglect ty to a big chunk of the population. Do you still feel thats true in mid2019 . I do. Listen, ive said all along when President Trump says something thats not wrong, the media should fact check him. When President Trump says something that is morally reprehensible, he should be called on that but the constant drum beat that President Trump is an awful, awful man, an orange man bad and, therefore, he should be ousted on the basis of his lack of character and that other characters in politics are imminently better and that what we have a true moral conflict in terms of character, if you back President Trump, what you see from the media is this idea that if you back President Trump its inherently because you back the worst things hes ever said or done. Thats that is an untrue statement. When you say the media, you mean liberal commentators, right . I do mean liberal commentators. I often mean liberal commentators who pose as journalists. This has been one of the great battles inside media. People like me openly conservative. I will cover the news from an openly conservative per spspect. We need a lot of people just gathering facts and people with views and perspective about those facts. The issue is when it gets blurry to the point people cant recognize which is which. I think thats exactly right. Certain reporters who are better at this and certain reporters who are not as good at this. Objective reporters should state up front their political preferences so we can determine how much of their political preferences are being reflected in their coverage. I dont see why more information handed to the American Public is a bad thing. How do you walk this tight rope . Actually, do you think its a tight rope when youre criticizing the. The from a conservative point of view, knowing some of your fans hate hearing that. Its never been a tight rope to me in the sense that the. The is a human being. Were all human beings who do bad things or good things. Which he does the bad thing ive never felt the they to back what he says or but a lot of your rivals do, right . A lot think they can only say the positive and ignore all the negative. Frankly, i dont think thats what people are looking for. I think people are looking for an honest take. Not an objective take but my honest take as a human being on what the president is doing. What people dont want is a feeling youre subsumming your honest take for political partisanship. That gets boring very quickly. I agree. Ben, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Bens book is called the right side of history. In bookstores now. Coming up, a major shakeup coming monday morning at cbs news. vo i know what youre thinking. Electric, its not for you. And, youre probably right. Electric just doesnt have enough range. It will never survive the winter. Charging stations . Good luck finding one of those. So, maybe an electric car isnt for you after all. Or, is it . A big cbs news anchor changed is expected to be announced monday morning. Sources tell me the news divisions new president Susan Zirinsky is shuffling all the an choshs. Gayle king is staying. All of the others les. Norah odonnell is heading to the cbs evening news replacing jeff glor. And the evening news is probably moving to d. C. The context for all this, the morning and evening shows on cbs are perrinally third place in back with me to discuss all of this, erin. The turmoil all started when you investigated charlie rose and he was fired as a result. Back in november 2017. These dominos are still falling. Well, look, its only been a few weeks since susan has take over in a historic move and we have to wait and see what she has planned. She has only started a few weeks ago and unenviably task because law firms investigating the culture at cbs news found patterns of misconduct that backed up some of the investigative reporting that was done by myself and my colleagues and you had a culture all the way to the top, right. You had former chairman jeff accused and charlie rose, of course, the tally of charlie rose accusers was 35 women and we could have kept on going to be honest. You had a culture that needed changing and that was Susan Zirinskys job. Tons of competition for peoples attention. So, again, these were shows that already had a challenge about what their identity was and now were going to see how is she going to meet those challenges while also making people who feel like they have been through a lot. A lot of people had nothing to do with this, theyre just trying to do their job and every day they get to read in the papers from you and me what is going on at their workplace. Some staffers feel unsupported people like jeff and they were brought into these shows in 2018 trying to shore things up and the ratings were a struggle and now Susan Zirinsky is moving people around to put pieces in the right places and that includes Nora Odonnell on the evening news. In 2019 it is rare to see a woman anchoring the evening news. Katie couric and diane sawyer had the jobs in the past. But still notable to see a female news president putting a woman in charge of the evening news. A historical moment. So disappointing to see New York Post framing this norah faceoff as if it was a fight. She always had aspirations to host the evening news and giving her what she wanted, and i think there is a temptation to look at this cat fight narrative. Any time changes at the notework dislocations and people who disagree with those decisions. It big picture here is that cbs corporate and cbs news, in particular, are on a project to change their culture and were about to see if it will work. Irin, thanks for being here. Fighting to make people more aware of journalism peril all around the world and its gaining lots of new numbers. Well tell you the story in just a moment. If you have a garden you know, weeds are lowdown little scoundrels. Draw the line with roundup. 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And its simple, easy, awesome. Finally today i want to tell you about the one free press coalition. Online at onefreepress. Com. Every month now it has come out with the list of the top ten most urgent cases of journalists in trouble all around the world. Here are this months list. This months faces. The ten most urgent cases from tanzania to columbia and all around the world. You can check out the full list at onefreepress. Com as well as our conversation with randall lane who came up with the idea on this weeks reliable sources podcast. Thanks for joining us and well see you back here this time next week. And filters by cabin class, wifi and more. So you can be confident youre getting the right flight at the best price. Kayak. Search one and done. When it comes to reducing the evsugar in your familys diet,m. Coke, dr pepper and pepsi hear you. Were working together to do just that. Bringing you more great tasting beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all. 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