So 10 u. S. Code section 119 discusses the ability to waive congressional reporting. However, the gang of eight is supposed to be notified if waived, and thats public law. I dont want to cut you off. How does a program like that get funded . Mr. Grusch i can get very specific in a closed session. Misappropriation of funds. Does that mean there is money in the budget that is set to go to a program but it doesnt and goes to Something Else . Mr. Grusch yes. Do you think u. S. Corporations are overcharging for certain tech theyre selling to the u. S. Government and that money is going through different programs . Mr. Grusch yes. Satellite imagery. We have satellites all over the place. Mr. Moskowitz were taking pictures of everything at every point and second. Mr. Grusch, are you aware do you have direct knowledge or have you talked to people with direct knowledge there are satellite imagery of these events . Mr. Grusch that was one of my primary tasks at n. G. A. Since we process, exploit and disseminate that. Ive seen multiple i left n. G. A. In april. So thats my information cutoff date. I personally reviewed both what we call overhead collection and from other strategic and tactical platforms that were i could not even explain. I have a degrees in physics, by the way, as well. I am aware you guys have not seen these reports, unfortunately. And i dont know why. Mr. Moskowitz do you have direct knowledge or have spoken to people with direct knowledge that this imagery deals with crash sites, crash imagery . Mr. Grusch i cant discuss that in open session. Mr. Moskowitz do you have any information that the u. S. Government is involved in a Disinformation Campaign to deny the existence of certain u. A. P. s . Mr. Grusch i cant go beyond what i have already stated publicly in minus nation interview because it touches other sensitivities. Mr. Moskowitz i yield back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ms. Foxx. Ms. Foxx thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank our witnesses for being here today. Mr. Grusch in your mr. Grusch, in your sworn testimony, you saved that the u. S. Government retrieved supposedly extra test rale space at the terrestrial and spacecraft. You state that the u. S. Government is in possession of, quote, nonhuman spacecraft, end quote. And that some of these artifacts have circulated with defense contractors. Several other former military and intelligence officials have come forward with similar allegations. Albeit it nonpublic settings. However, dr. Shawn kirkpatrick, the director of aaro, previously testified before congress that there has been, and i quote, no credible evidence thus far of extra at the terrestrial activity or, quote, offworld technology brought to the attention of the office. To your knowledge, is that statement correct . Mr. Grusch its not accurate. I believe dr. Kirkpatrick mentioning about 30 individuals that have come to aero thus far. They have been interviewed. I know what they provided to dr. Kirkpatrick and their team. I was able to evaluate that information. Ms. Foxx i need to go on. Mr. Grusch sure. Ms. Foxx my understanding, his statement is accurate. Came from a direct quote. And this contradiction is a perfect example of why we need to injection transparency into our government. For another example, look no further than the pitiful response to the chinese spy balloon debacle earlier this year. You may remember the mass confusion that ensued when the balloon was first spotted over montana four days after it entered u. S. Airspace over alaska. The biden administrations initial inability to address the object grew into a continuous series of embarrassments. After news of the balloon reached the mainstream media, we were assured that the balloon posed no threat to our security. However, after the balloon was allowed to transit the entire continental United States, fighter jets were scrambled off the coast of South Carolina to shoot it down. This flipflopping and obfuscation caused needless confusion, fear, and panic across the country. Its my hope, mr. Chairman, that this sort of confusion will not be repeated. We should investigate the extent to elements of our government possess or do not possess information that is of critical value to the American People. We owe it to the citizens of this nation to make sure that our government is transparent and accountable. We must make sure that our government provides answers and Congress Must do its duty to solicit those answers. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Mr. Grothman yeah. Mr. Frost. Mr. Frost thank you. In 2022, nasa announced it was commissioning an independent study team to examine u. A. P. s. They have scientists across different fields as well as former pilots. They held that the first Public Meeting which included the perspectives from nasa Senior Leaders as well as perspectives from the department of defense and intelligence agencies, the nasa study team is also expected to release its first report pretty soon, and i think its safe to say that we all eagerly await its results. Mr. Graves, how might nasas research influence the commercial industry regarding safety and u. A. P. . Mr. Graves i think nasa has a big role to play and one of the original charters as an organization. One of the recommendations that have been put forward is to utilize their existing aviation reporting system to be a trusted platform that wants to report on u. A. P. It has built in analytics capability and funded by congress. Mr. Frost are there any other industry that may be influenced by the nasa research on u. A. P. s and if so how so . Mr. Graves well, i think there is a large swath of commercial capability that can be brought to bear from spacebased or groundbased Sensor Systems that are open through commercial marketplaces and i think nasas work as they work to identify and highlight specific parameters that can be found, we can take that information and promulgate this through the Public Sector so we can have more open conversation about what were seeing. Mr. Frost in 2020, the department of defense released several videos of u. A. P. s, including mr. Fravors experience, u. S. Navy pilots that recorded footage. In 2021, the office of the director of National Intelligence released a preliminary report on u. A. P. Events. Nasa administrator bill nelson said that nasa would begin to investigate these events. In fact, i sat on the science, space, and Technology Committee and when we were doing a hearing with the nasa administrator why nasa needed to be fully funded, there were many great reasons. One had to do with u. A. P. s. Is there life out there . I dont know. Either way, these actions ultimately led nasa to assemble the independent study team that i mentioned earlier. Also in 2021, harvard stood up the Galileo Project to research and examine the origins of u. A. P. s so it seems like both from nasa and the Higher Education community, because of the work that yall have done and people standing up, you know, i think were seeing some of that stigma slowly going away. Mr. Fraver, do you believe that military pilots feeling empowered to share their u. A. P. Experiences has directly impacted the Scientific Communitys Research Goals on this topic . Mr. Fraver i would say mr. Fraver i would say yes. When it came out it took that stigma away. I spoke to multiple senators. Prior to that if you mentioned u. A. P. You would be laughed off the hill. Now were sitting here today in public testimony about whats going on. I hope this will be more exponential and will get more and more transparent to the level we can. Mr. Frost its important. I couldnt imagine you know, im not a pilot but i used to fly gliders. Yeah. [laughter] and so either way, i couldnt imagine, you know, being in the glider and seeing something. And then not feeling like i had the agency to talk about it. Mr. Graves, can you discuss the importance of seeking scientists to sit on your Advisory Board . Mr. Graves absolutely. I think ultimately this is going to be a scientific problem. Not only that its also an engineering problem. Ive been working with the American Institute of aeronautics and astronautics to help integrate their engineering prowess into this problem. Its very much, i think its an engineering and scientific problem as well as a National Security problem. Mr. Frost and how might congress facilitate partnerships between the Scientific Community and the u. A. P. Focused groups within government . Mr. Graves i think one of the things they can do is have these types of hearings to communicate to the public this is a topic of interest. I think there is a pseudo market if you will of interested capabilities and talent that want to approach this topic and were seeing that start to grow now. So i think a continued conversation, reduction of stigma will allow that to flourish and allow answers to help generate themselves. Mr. Frost 100 . Thank you, all, for being here. Thank you for your help. I think its important we keep our top Scientific Minds focused on this issue and look for ways to increase collaboration. Thank you so much. I yield back. Mr. Grothman mr. Comer. Mr. Comer thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me say i want to thank you for having this hearing. With that i yield my five minutes to mr. Burchett. Mr. Burchett thank you, mr. Chairman. Im going to direct this, i believe, to mr. Grusch. But if any of yall feel like you need to jump in just jump right in. Were good. As a has the u. S. Government become aware of evidence of extra terrestrial, and if so when do you think this first occurred . I like to use the term nonhuman. It keeps the app are ature open both scientifically. Certainly like i discussed publicly previously 1930s. Mr. Burchett ok. Can you give me the names and titles of the people with direct firsthand knowledge and access to some of this crash retrieval some of these crash retrieval programs and maybe which facilities, military bases that would the recovered material would be in . I know a lot of congress talked about well go to area 51 and you know theres nothing there anymore anyway and we move like a glacier. Soon as we announce it im sure the moving advance would pull up. Please. Mr. Grusch i cant discuss that publicly but i did provide that information both to the Intel Committee and the inspector general. Mr. Burchett if we could get that in a skiff . Mr. Grusch sure. If you have the appropriate accesses, yes. Mr. Burchett what special Access Programs cover this information and how is it possible they have evaded oversight for so long . Mr. Grusch i do know the names. Once again, i cant discuss that publicly. And how they evaded oversight, in a closed setting i could tell you the specific trade craft used. Mr. Burchett when do you think these programs began and who authorized them . Mr. Grusch i do know that information but its something i cant discuss publicly. Mr. Burchett ok. If any of yall want to jump in on this you are more than welcome to. What level of security clearance is required to fully access these programs . Mr. Grusch well, anybody who has mr. Burchett i say that because myself, representative gaetz and representative luna were basically turned away at one point at eggland. So please, go right ahead. Mr. Grusch certainly different between member access and say, somebody like me, but anybody who has the clearance and meets the eligibility clearance. The access of adjudicated authority. If youll yield. Just to put a fine point on that. Theres nothing that youre wear of youre aware of thats above special classification . Mr. Grusch its nothing above top secret. But i draw a point on that because we can have access to those programs. And so the notion that were not being given that access sort of defies our typical muscle memory here in congress. Thank you, mr. Burchett. I yield back to you. Mr. Burchett thank you, mr. Gaetz. Title 10, you may not know this but title 10 and title 50 authorization, they seem to say theyre inefficient. So who gets to decide this in your opinion in the past . Mr. Grusch its a group of career Senior Executive officials. Mr. Burchett are they government officials . Mr. Grusch both in and outs of government. And thats about as far as i will go there. Mr. Burchett ok. That leads to my next question. Which private corporations are directly involved in this program . Mr. How much taxpayer money has been invested in these programs, to your knowledge . We know we audit the pentagon every year. And ive been here five years and they failed the dad gum thing every year. Lose over a billion dollars a year, we think, and i told the department of department maybe 60 of their assets are unaccounted for, whatever the heck that means. In the Public Sector, you go to jail for that kind of crap. So tell me. Mr. Grusch yeah, i know when i off my d. T. S. Travel i gets hammered. Mr. Burchett if you sell over 600 stuff on ebay now you get a call from the i. R. S. So please, what corporations . Mr. Grusch i dont know the specific corporations i did provide to the kegs and specific divisions and i spent 11 1 2 hours at the Intel Committee. Mr. Burchett has there been an active u. S. Government Disinformation Program to debunk the u. A. P. And if so why . Mr. Grusch i cant say publicly except from what i espoused about that. Mr. Burchett ok. Ive been told to ask you how to get it in the record. Mrs. Luna what have you stated publicly in your interview for the public . Mr. Grusch i talked about a multidecade campaign disenfranchised public interest. Mr. Burchett i apologize, mr. Chairman. I yield back negative 21 seconds. Mr. Grothman thank you. Ms. Ocasiocortez. Ms. Ocasiocortez thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for coming here today. I conquer with the Ranking Member as well as several members on this committee this is a committee for whistleblowers and for the protection of whistleblowers as well. So we understand what youre putting on the table here. We thank you for that. Mr. Grusch, you sat on the unidentified anomalous phenomena created in the 2020 ndaa, is that correct . Mr. Grusch yes. Ms. Ocasiocortez mr. Graves, you mentioned specifically during the answer to one of your questions, you mentioned boeing contractors being engaged in an incident regarding this rid cube red cube about a football field wide. I want to know if you can speak about the interaction between defense Contractor Companies and any u. A. P. Related programs or activities . Mr. Graves the information was provided by a witness and i have no particular detail on that relationship. Mr. Grusch certainly, the contractors, you know, are the metal benders so to speak. They are doing specific performance on government contracts. Ms. Ocasiocortez do they engage in any reporting around this . Mr. Grusch in terms of the contractors, not that i am aware of. Ms. Ocasiocortez they do not. When it comes to notification that you had mentioned abouti rad about irad programs, weve seen contractors abuse their contracts before this committee. I have seen it personally. And i have also seen the notification requirements to congress abused. I am wondering, one of the loopholes that we see in the law is that there is, at least from my vantagepoint, is that depending on what were seeing is there are no actual definitions or requirements for notification. Are there what methods of notification did you observe . When they say they notified congress, how did they do that . Do you have insight into that . Mr. Grusch for certain irad activities, i can only think of one conventional in nature. Sometimes they flow through certain i would say sap programs that have cognizant authority over the air force or something. And those are congressionally reported compartments. But irad is internal to the contractors. So as long as its money, either profits, private investment, etc. , they can say whatever they want. Ms. Ocasiocortez to put a finer point on it. When there is a requirement for an agency or company to notify congress, do they contact the chairman of the committee . Do they get them on the phone specifically . Is this through an email to hypothetically to a dead email box . Mr. Grusch a lot of it comes through what they call the p. P. R. , periodic review process. And those go to the specific committees, whether it be the ms. Ocasiocortez thank you. I apologize. My time is limited. Mr. Graves, one of your main concerns that the f. A. A. Currently does not have an official process to receive reports of u. A. P. From pilots or others, correct . Mr. Graves correct. Ms. Ocasiocortez in your experience, what data should the arrow aero program have for collection . We have location, date, time. Do we have specific characteristics that should be included in these reports . Mr. Graves certainly. I think theres two categories that would be important. One would be kinematics and understanding how the specific vehicle or object is moving. And one is another zoomed out approach of being able to look at origin and destination after, before the incident, as well as getting a better Contextual Understanding how these objects are interacting with each other. Ms. Ocasiocortez thank you. Because i only have a minute left, i apologize we only have five minutes today. But for the record, if you were me, where would you look . Titles, programs, departments, regions, if you could just name anything . And i put that as an open question to the three of you. Mr. Grusch i would be happy to give you that in a closed environment. I can give you that specifically. Commander fraver you have to know where to look because of classification levels. If you know where to point to, you have them. Mr. Graves i was like ms. Ocasiocortez ok. Yield back to the chair. Mr. Grothman mr. Biggs. Mr. Biggs i thank the chair. I thank the witnesses for being here. Im over here. [laughter] thank you so much for being here. I want to get into specifics here. And the reason im going to go this way is because youve talked a bit about misdirection by official u. S. Government with regard to u. A. P. s, right . Last week white house spokesman said that u. A. P. s need to be treated as a legitimate issue. Do you concur with the statements . Thats for each of you. Yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. Biggs ok. Now having said that, i want to take you to specific incidents around the phoenix valley because thats where i live. In 1997, we had the famous Phoenix Light case. I dont know if any of you are familiar with that. There were two things that went along with that. And the explanation was military Training Range in the Barry Goldwater range. Do you know anything different other than the official explanation of those lights . Only whats in the public vernacular about it. Thats outside the scope of my duties. Mr. Biggs and if we wanted to my question along with my colleague from new york, ms. Ocasiocortez, if we wanted to find out more about that, where would we go to find the files and who would we address . I know you will tell me we can go to the skiff so you can tell us in a skiff. Mr. Grusch i can potentially give you a vector on that. Im familiar with it in terms of public. I will give you a vector in a closed environment. Mr. Biggs that would be good. Thank you. So if its true that u. A. P. s are having an impact on Training Ranges and this administration considers it to be a legitimate issue, what steps can Congress Take to address Training Range impacts . And i say that having two very large Training Ranges in my state. And so well start with mr. Graves and going down the panel. Mr. Graves some of the initial procedures have been implemented. Such as within the United States navy that have a range report that gathers information from pilots. I understand that a servicewide reporting mechanism is still fend penning. However, that would be a great next step. Not only for gathering information but for showing the troop that is an acceptable topic and reducing the stigma. Mr. Biggs please, continue. Mr. Grusch as a recipient of some of those training reports, some are contextual, kind of oral reporting. It would be nice if they attached all sensor data. There is a system in place to handle multiple classifications of data and thats an issue with the f35, right . That built was never built to be an it is a pain in the butt to get the data off. Mr. Fravor i would agree with the two. The data has to be out there. You have to acknowledge youre seeing them and then you have to collect the data. Right now you get the report. Someone says i saw someone but no one collects the radar data to back it up and do research. Mr. Biggs do you believe the 2019 classification guidelines of u. A. P. s interferes with the federal government of being transparent to the American People and do you think we need to be more transparent with the American People . Mr. Graves ill say yes to that. Mr. Grusch im familiar with the u. A. P. Task force 2019 security classification guide. I think its fair. I did actually help author that. Mr. Biggs uhoh. You got a bias. Mr. Grusch i will call it a lazy attitude of declassifying videos. I have aseen some of the videos of the recent shootdown and i saw no reason that couldnt be released as long as they mask some data. The American People deserve to see that imagery in full motion video. Mr. Fravor i would think well, in my opinion, i will say things are overclassified. I know for a fact video or the pictures that came out in the 2020 report that had the stuff off the east coast, they were taken with an iphone, my buddy said they were originally classified tsci. What are they classified for . They are off an iphone. They go in a vault. And then you all have to look for them. Mr. Biggs with the overclassification, that may be one way. Is there a way for d. O. D. Or intelligence agencies are keeping this information from the American People or even from congress . Mr. Graves i think part of that has been nonencouraging reporting. If the problem thats not measured its not something that can be fixed. Mr. Biggs very good. Im out of time and i thank you, mr. Chairman, and i yield back. Mr. Grothman first of all, without objection, representative Nick Langworthy of new york is waived on the subcommittee for the purpose of asking questions. And then well go to mr. Burr lisson. Mr. Burleson i appreciate you guys coming out today testifying. Look, ive been here for six months and im skeptical. I dont trust anything in this town. And so and i think thats because im from missouri. You got to show me, right . With that being said, theres a lot of things being said in the public, mr. Grusch, and so i want to get down to, if we can, to some specifics, right . So at one point you said there has been harmful activity or progressive activity. Has any of the activity been aggressive, been hostile, in your reports . Mr. Grusch i know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured. And the activity mr. Burlison by u. A. P. s or by people within the federal government . Mr. Grusch both. Mr. Burlison so theres been activity by alien or nonhuman technology and or beings that has caused harm to humans . Mr. Grusch i cant get into the specifics in an open environment. But at least the activity that i personally witnessed and i have to be careful here because what i personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing. Mr. Burlison ok. One of my constituents actually sent this next question. I figured id ask it since i have the same thought. You said that the u. S. Has intact spacecraft. You said that the government has alien bodies or alien species. Have you seen have you seen the spacecraft . Mr. Grusch i have to be careful to describe what i have seen or not in this environment. I could answer that question behind closed doors, yes. Mr. Burlison have you seen any of the bodies . Mr. Grusch thats something i have not witnessed myself. Mr. Burlison ok. With that being said another statement that has been made that was intriguing to me because its intriguing because my view has been that we are billions of light years away from any other system. And the concept that an alien species is technologically advanced enough to get here and somehow is incompetent enough to not survive earth or crash is something that i find a little bit farfetched. With that being said, you have mentioned theres interdimensional potential. Can you expound on that . Mr. Grusch ill answer your first question. Im here as a fact witness and expert. I will give you a theoretical framework to work off to kind of espouse crashes. Regardless of your level of planes crash, cars crash. A small percentage are going to end in mission failure, as we say in the air force. And then in terms of multidimensionality, the framework im familiar with, for example, is something called the holographic principle. It is quantum mechanics. That is, if you want to imagine 3d objects such as yourself casting a shadow onto a 2d surface, thats the holographic principle. You can be projected from higher to lower dimensional. There is a trope you can cross, as far as i understand, but guys that ph. D. s that will probable argue about that probably argue about that. Only theoretical framework discussion i have seen. Mr. Burlison ok. Auchinrazor, these aircraft have they been identified they are being produced by domestic, you know, military contractors . Thats whats being recovered . Mr. Grusch not to my knowledge. Plus the recovery predates. Mr. Burlison would it be safe to say there could be a scenario today that you have an aircraft that crashes and because its been involved in one program from one federal agency and the but the agency that retrieves it is not aware of that program and to them it appears alien in origin . Mr. Grusch i mean, thats a hypothetical situation. I am not aware of any historical situation that would match that that you described. Mr. Burlison it has not happened that you are aware of . Mr. Grusch that i am aware of. Mr. Burlison thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Several months ago my office received a protected disclosure from eggland air force base indicating there was a u. A. P. Incident that needed my attention. I brought with me congressman burchett and congresswoman luna. Mr. Gaetz we asked to see any of the evidence that had been taken by flight crew in this endeavor and to observe any radar signature as long as as well as to meet with the flight crew. We were not afforded access to all of the flight crew. And initially, we were not afforded access to images and to radar. Thereafter, we had bit of a discussion about how authorities flow in the United States of america and we did see the image. And we did meet with one member of the flight crew who took the image. The image was of something that i am not able to attach to any human capability, either from the United States or from any of our adversaries and im somewhat informed on the matter having served on the Armed Services committee for seven years, having been on the committee that oversees this for several years. When we spoke with the flight crew and when he showed us the photo i asked why we didnt have a video or flair system that didnt work. Heres what he said. They were out on a test mission that day over the gulf of mexico, and when youre on a test mission, youre supposed to have clear airspace. Not supposed to be anything that shows up. And they saw a sequence of four craft in a clear diamond formation for which there is a radar sequence that i and i alone have observed in the United States congress. One of the pilots goes to check out that diamond formation and sees a large floating, what i can only describe as an orb, again, like i said, not of any human capability that i am aware of. And when he approached, he said that his radar went down. He said that his flair system malfunctioned. And that he had to manually take this image from one of the lenses, and it was not automated in collection as you would typically see in a test mission. So i guess ill start with commander fravor, how should we think about the fact that this craft that was approached by our pilot had the capability of disarming a number of the sensor and collection systems on that craft . Mr. Favror well, i think this goes to the National History site. Things disabled our capabilities which is disheartening and for us, i mean, like i said, it completely disabled the radar and aircraft and the only way we could do it was passively. Thats a concern on not only how to operate but their capabilities inside on how to do this. Mr. Gaetz how should we think about craft moving in a very clear formation, equal distant from one another, in a diamond . If all of the phenomenon perhaps, mr. Graves, that you analyzed, have we seen multiple craft in a formation . Mr. Graves i have one and that is the gimble. It shows a single object that rotates. Hear the pilots refer to a fleet of objects thats not visible on the flair system and thats something i witnessed during the debrief on the situational air warrens page. I would awareness page. I would like to add, congressman, a small bit of anger i would feel those pilots are facing that difficulty in reporting this topic and they dont have the tools to be able to mitigate this issue. It just goes to show how serious this is and why this is such an important issue for our pilots and our nation. Mr. Gaetz it was stated explicitly to me by these test pilots, if you have a u. A. P. Experience, the best thing you can do for your career is forget it and not tell anyone. Because any type of reporting, either above the surface or below the surface, does have a perceived consequence to these people and that is a culture we must change if we want to get to the truth. Mr. Chairman, i would observe that perhaps as we as we move forward from this hearing, there are some obvious next steps. Every person watching this knows that we need to meet with mr. Grusch in a secured, compartmentalized facility, so we can get answers and not put him in jeopardy. I would suggest the radar images that were collected of this formation of craft out of eggland air force base and specifically the actual image taken by the actual flight crew that we can actually validate be provided to the committee, subpoenaed if necessary, so that were able to track how to get this type of reporting and analysis done in a more fulsom way fulsome way. That is something i would humbly ask. I yield back. Mr. Grothman ms. Mace. Ms. Mace thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to each testifying here on grave and important topics. A chinese spy balloon was shot down off my home state of South Carolina. After roswell, many people want to know whether theyre u. A. P. s, weather phenomena, technology from allied or enemy forces or something out of this world. So my first question i have several questions. If we can be quick on these first two. I will ask each of you the same question and then ill get to you individually. The first one, when you reported your experiences with a u. A. P. , did any of you face any repercussions with your superiors, yes or no . Mr. Graves no. Mr. Grusch no. Mr. Fravor i have not seen anything personally. Ms. Mace do you think there is an active Disinformation Campaign to deny existence of u. A. P. s . Mr. Graves i dont have an answer to that. Mr. Grusch as previously stated publicly, yes. Mr. Fravor like project blue book, yes. But i dont currently speak for the United States government. Ms. Face i have a few ms. Mace i have a few question for mr. Graves. How many do you think goes unreported . Mr. Graves speaking with a number of pilots. I would estimate were somewhere around 5 reporting. Ms. Mace about 95 dont report seeing u. A. P. s . Mr. Graves thats my personal estimate. Ms. Mace off virginia beach, do you believe the navy took the aircraft seriously after it was reported . Mr. Graves absolutely. Ms. Mace as an expert aviator, have you ever seen an object look like the tick tak u. A. P. . Mr. Favror no. Ms. Mace where are did it defy the laws of physics . Ms. Favror yes. Mr. Favror yes. Ms. Mace does our government test u. A. P. s without informing our pilots . Mr. Favror no. Ms. Mace do you think there is reason to be ignored . Mr. Favror no. I think it was sat in a folder in a drawer. Ms. Mace it happens a lot here. Shocker. Mr. Grusch, what percentage of u. A. P. s do you feel are adequately investigated by the United States government, of the 5 that are reported . Mr. Grusch i can only speak from my personal leadership. I tried to look at every report that i could triage. Ms. Mace do you believe that high levels of our apparatus have unlawfully withheld from congress and subverted our Oversight Authority . Mr. Grusch there are certain elected leaders that had more information that im not sure what theyve shared with certain gang of eight members, etc. But certainly, i would not be surprised. Ms. Mace ok. You stated that the government is in possession of potentially nonhuman spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligence, extraterrestrials . Mr. Grusch something i cant discuss in a public setting. Ms. Mace ok. I cant ask when you think this occurred. If you believe we have crashed craft, stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft . Mr. Grusch as i stated publicly in my interview, some came with these recoveries, yes. Ms. Mace were they human or nonhuman biologics . Mr. Grusch nonhuman. Ms. Mace was this documented, photos, eyewitness, how would that be determined . Mr. Grusch the specific documentation i would have to talk to you in a skiff about. Ms. Mace ok. So and you may or may not be able to answer my last question and maybe question get in a skiff in the next hearing. Who in the government either what agency, subagency, what contractors, who should be called into the next hearing about u. A. P. s either in a public setting or even in a private setting . You probably cant name names but what agencies should we call in, either funding what programs and whats happening out there . Mr. Grusch i can give you a specific witness of specific individuals that were in those ms. Mace and how soon can you give us that list . Mr. Grusch id be happy to after the hearing. Ms. Mace great. I yield back. Mr. Grothman now we have mr. Langworthy. Mr. Langworthy thank you very much. Id like to thank all of the witnesses for being here today to discuss this very unique topic. Id lake to jump id like to jump right into my questions. Commander fravor, can you briefly describe your background . Mr. Fravor i was a Naval Academy graduate. Navy. Flew for 18 years. Got a masters from the university of houston. And ive worked in the private sector for the last, what now, 19, 16, 17 years. I do a lot of defense work. Mr. Langworthy really goldplated credentials. Weve seen the floating tick tak video that you gaen with on engaged with on november 14, 2004. Can you tell us why you were off the coast of san diego that day . Mr. Fravor we were with a workup with all the battle groups. We work with the carrier and start working so we were doing hone not only our skills but those of the u. S. S. Princeton when they had been tracking them for two weeks. There was never manned aircraft airborne tracking them. We were the ones airborne and saw it. Mr. Langworthy do you remember the weather that day . Windy, cloudy . Mr. Fravor it was light winds, no air caps. For flying, it was the best. Mr. Langworthy now, is it true you saw in your words a 40foot flying tiktoked shaped object . Mr. Fravor its a giant flying propane tank. Mr. Langworthy did it interfere with your radar or interfere with the princeton . Mr. Fravor we never saw it on our radars. Our radars never picked it up. The other airplane that took the video did get it on weve been showing you hearing on the u. A. P. s, you can watch more online at cspan. Org. House members now returning to the chamber for legislative business. Theyll consider several endangered species measures as well as the houses first 2024 federal spending bill. Thats for funding the Veterans Affairs department and military Construction Projects for next year. Live coverage of the house here on cspan. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org]
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