Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20140905

, about the amount of time children have to eat. Ive heard from students that by the time they get to the line five got five minutes, so they take a couple bites and the food goes in the trash because they dont have time. I know this gets into a broader of the School Districts and how we define lunch and so on. But i want wondered if you could tell us about this issue of time and the impact on it and whether a is Engaging School boards or local leaders to find solutions to this. Lunch is aeat school serious concern. District, as School Administrators are pressured to they shavest scores, minutes off of the school lunch increase theer to instructional time. Each, the staff at location is based on the number of meals served at that location. So i dont just have the ability three people so i can increase the points of quickly. Nd serve them and we are looking at ways that increase the number of students we serve and decrease the amount of time that they spend in line. It is an issue that we have discussed in the association and we do address in conferences and webinars and types of material. But its really a decision we influence on and try to end indicate School Administratorthe importance of to eat lunch, but an area nocourse over which we have immediate impact. I appreciate that. Withlike very much to work you on actions, and i know there such areassire or they are talking about pilots eatinghildren are even breakfast in the classroom, other options and so on. Things thatome hopefully we can do to help tools that relate to that. Because i think that is a very students. Issue for also let me just ask you, because we hear so many Different Things depending on the school or the state and so know in kentucky, your that kentucky was nearly 100 compliant with all the standards last year. To congratulate you as being an early adapter in your and the work youve done. When we look across a state like of ruralwith a lot communities and so on, we see county ord and harlan mary coon in harden county or simms, talking about their theesses and implementing standards and theyve indicated they dont see challenges or for a waiver and so on much yet we hear Different Things in different schools happening. S i wonder, what is different in these schools, well, other that were hearing about and how do we help the schools challenges while also recognizing the school that ahead. Ing theyre moving a lot of it comes down to the the schoolff in nutrition program. Im very fortunate that i have a number of people on my staff that are assigned specific duties related to our school program. I can tell you that since the hungerfree kids act went into effect, i have had to take one key position, the food procurement split thatng, and into two positions. I think mr. Clements alluded to the complexity of the requirements. So i have one person who concentrates on food procurement the specifications and assuring that students had an opportunity to sample new product. I have another person that works on the menu planning, and and takes caret of special dietary needs. The complexityto of some of this, and i think more districts are better handle that. Not all School Nutrition directors may be equipped with the skills necessary to handle changes that have occurred and the complexity of those changes. A story. You i attended food service, required Food Service Director frankfurt, not long ago. A small group, and there was a there, hes been a school Food Service Director formerlyyears, and he worked at the state department and he told us, he said, you im so overwhelmed because hes trying to do everything himself. One thing in year and i ill focus on another year. Next so again, people are feeling overwhelmed in terms of trying the changes,l of because there have been a lot of changes in a relatively shore time for many of us. Sound like would it be sureul if we could make have you the resources you need as well. Let me just ask mr. Clements, and congratulations on what youve doing in mississippi, again detroit andnt than kentucky and utah, wisconsin certainly. But were seeing positive things addressed. I know that mississippi has seen a decline in childhood obesity, and congratulations because i know your work has made a difference in childrens lives, literally in them living longer, we should feel very good about that. Theyouve implemented nutrition standards for competitive foods well before the National Policies were developed. Im wondering if you could talk about the successes and youve had, state competitive food standards, and youvelth benefits that seen as a result of the changes. Weve been very fortunate in mississippi. In many respects we have legislature and state board of education who are both very cog any saab of the problem we have with obesity. As far back as the 1980s they implemented an aggressive food policy. That was designed to protect the school lunch program, and beyond we dont have what most schools have as far as ala cart sales. Students must pick up a complete reimbursed meal to purchase any extra foods. Some of those have been in place for years. In 2007 we addressed competitive foods again, we put stringent vending closely that are aloined with the new smart snack rules. Some loss of revenue there, but we have seen very good compliance. Took them a little while to get on board, theres with a transition period. Weve been very fortunate, our schools have adopted those them. Cepted thanks very much. Senator . Madamnk you very much, chair. Sorry i had Something Else this morning, and i really appreciate that the hearing is still going on. I think this is something thats all of us. Rtant to its something we care a lot state. N our and i supported the healthy act in 2010 when it passed on a bipartisan basis to overwhelming support. Our schools are a critical part we madehis effort and some progress. We havent been able to say that made few years, but weve some progress in at least stablizing the rate of childhood part because of the reforms that have been enacted. I think we all know that there work to be done. Its been acknowledged that and thatnt easy, preventing chai hood obesity would be happen overnight. Beont think we should rolling back or postponing the standards right now, but its always good to hear what people to say. Ag state androm an attending my farm fest at the beginning of august here, i wanted to talk a little about the issue of purchasing local ag products for school meal programs, the farm to school program. Betweenit a good bridge our nations farmers and our children. Usdaccording to the farming school, School Report spending 12 of their School Budgets on local products. You provide some insight into how you see this practice as a longterm strategy to kids and also the Agriculture Community . Them happy to report that detroit Public Schools spent dollars onr produce michigan grown produce. Longterm strategy means that we have to develop a chain. Im from a little farming town whittaker, michigan and i went there for a meeting and i farmers. Local so they said i want to get my food into your schools and i said no, i cant. Well, i need one school. I said i got 131. The way, i had to disappoint people i grew up with. But the way that we handle getting fresh fruits and vegetables into our school at the local level is were going to develop some supply chains, were going to have to work with cooperatives. One of the things the state of michigan does when you talk can help one another, we have something called an alternate agreement can provide services to small School Districts, the theand two that dont have capability, education or equipment or even the time, that i provide my services and i put those districts in with the detroit Public Schools. Detroit Public School apple, ourat 14cent toators are always proud talk about, if those Small Schools werent with me, that cents. Ould cost them 40 so the ability to collaborate what will allow us to add those important products. Senator, i just left st. Paul, of minneapolisr yesterday, we were in a meeting a collaborative so we could create a larger Market Basket so we could go out market and appear more attractive. Theyre manufacturers, not giving us food, and i dont have a problem with that. What we can do is collaborative will ensure that michigan and minnesota dont have to plow under products that my kids eat, that we consider one other thing we did, our Agriculture Extension Service did a study and it doesnt surprise me because weve seen this with roll products in why our rewick shoes are great. What we found in the study at minnesota thatof there was a 3 to 16 increase in whenl meal participation there was a farm to school program. Some, iow theres been do think we have to remember if we can work this out, its not for the kids, it actually increases their interest and their familys in being part of this because they see it as part of a local community. More questionone here. And i knowtimony, earlier you talked about School Districts that have have had finding acceptable foods that meet the new whole grain rich standards. How many schools have taken advantage of the twoyear flex wholevided by usda on grains rich food to allow time for the industry to develop products . I do not have an answer to that question. I know in talking to colleagues country as the recently as last week in boston, i talked to districts who intend waiver and ive talked to districts that dont have a need for the waiver, own. Ding my sometimes it could be districts another. Next to one so i dont know how many have applied. Okay. Helpful to know because there is that possibility out there. Mr. Clements, just one more question. Outside of the new standards, anddoes state agencies schools determine what products will be included in the vending lines . S and ala cart i worked very hard on this vending machine issue, i care a about it after having my daughter in Public School her wase life and watching what in some of the vending machines and what they were eating. What methods of evaluation have been used in the vending machines for the Smart Snacks Program . Back to 07 we had policies are very similar to the new smart snacks. We provide that through the service. We make the evaluation for them and they dont have to have any technical skill, so to speak, we have that expertise, we publish they have if individual problems they can send us the information. Theres an line cal laters now, they can use those. Thatere happy to provide service to all of our schools. Thank you very much. Presiding overr the committee today. And thank you again for holding this hearing. Issue, this is a violent because of obesity rates of children and how important it is feed themhealth to good foods. I want to continue along the klobishar snore started. Food clubs are possible across state and sary from not for profits to bring local foods to under served areas to large not for profit serving hundreds of institutions. City wholesale green market as well as for profit. Usinesses my team works closely with different organizations and has helped to secure grants, loans other services that have advanced the hubs mission. Could you spoke to the of food hubs and how do . Ies in to the work you food hubs are playing an getting locally andn produce to schools other end users. The big issue of course is that growers arese local what are known as micro grower and not commercial, so therefore they dont have the means of distribution. So the food hubs play a critical getting produce from the farm to the en users. To nonprofit food hubs, sometimes they also have in distribution where we dont have a successful nonprofit in our market, food stepped in as a distributor to act as the local our hub in working with school district, we can choose canl growers and they choose local growers and then they deliver to us and then we numerousut to the schools, rather than having a farmer in his pickup truck or to deliver to 40 schools all in one day. So theyre an integral part of of the local food program and the local school, school program. And so the funding and the processes to assist those food hubs is important. Do you have any idea for the committee on how we can expand that . Because some of the challenge is the freshcess to foods from her local farmers, what are some policy ideas you could offer that we could expand food hubs . We tro to use the program as we can. But do you have any thoughts expand the program . I dont specifically. Its a big challenge. And we need to continue the work on that. We also have to keep in perspective that although local it isis a good way to go, not the, cannot solve all of our problems. Thetill have to rely on commercial sector, the commercial farms who can produce product toities of supply in our schools and other sources. A Large School District would go to a small want to useay we your produce, they could wipe day. Is crop in one so we have to put that in perspective. We continue working with the usda, seeing if we can fill up that system. It a whole new Distribution System thats new to all of us. Similarly, this past year for allocated 100 million Technical Assistance and administrative funds to help meet the new nutrition standards. But more than half the money has been returned to the usda, that usingstates have not been all the resources that were available for them. For example in new york state Implementation Fund are not being used, which equals 2. 5 million. So dr. Wilson, could you speak to what youre doing in your usda to leverage these dollars to help provide assistance to schools to meet new standards . Yes, first of all the institute is a national institute. Doing Technical Assistance in new york city now, and its coming from our budget, not theirs. There are ways those states can contract with us. Had outside contract from a number of states. To contract with us to do specific things in their state. It. Issippi did we had some foundation money, so we concentrated in their state and did culinary training all over their state. California did the same thing where we did 10 culinary trainings all over the state, trainers, soto they could go out and train. All different topics offer. Thank you very much. And thank you to all of you, an importanty snapshot of how the program is theing a cross the country, challenges that we face. We want to work with all of you bycontinue moving forward,ed on best practices, be able to support and tackle the things we still immediate to tackle to make sure that all schools are successful, because bottom line we are talking about something pretty important here in terms of the health of future of the country, tackling chai hood obesity, and based on the habits that we all acquire as we are children, and certainly we change always is a little difficult, but in this is well both the effort. So thank you again, we look forward to working with you on the reauthorization of the child nutrition program, and i would any additional questions for the record should be submitted fivee committee within Business Days today, thats wednesday, july 30. Adjourned. Ting is tonight, cspans American History tour features the west water expansion, including the lewis and Clark Expedition from st. Louis to the pacific. Heres a look. A lot of times in the we see themvies circling the wagons and the indians come and attack. Rarely if ever did that happen. There were very few death as long the trail that had anything do with the indians. The indians actually helped the them. Rs more than hurting but the dangers came in first of probablyse, which killed about 10 of the people cholera. West, mostly and also things like drownings accidental death by gunshot, wagon. Un over by a happened to a lot of kid who were climbing on the wagon and wheels wouldthe roll over them. Real grim side to migration. But really kind of unprecedented migration, 300,000 people questione period in who packed up everything and literally went west. American history tour on west water expansion. Well explore the lewis and from st. Louisn to the pacific. The creation of the First Railroad andtal the socalled black okies who migrated to rural scament during dust bowl. That all starts at 9 00 p. M. Cspan. Here on next on cspan the california governors debate, between andmbent jerry brown republican and former assistant treasury secretary, neil cash car i. That, a panel on combating corruption and human rights the world. Nd on the next washington journal well take a look at class in america. Viewers calls and your tweets and facebook comments. Washington journal, live at 7 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. Find our Television Schedule at cspan. Org, and let us know what you think about the programs watching. A tweet, or you can email us. Like us on facebook, follow us on twitter. Next the first and likely only debate between democratic jerry brownovernor and republican neel kashkari, a former assistant treasury oversaw the tart program. Governor brown served as the from 1975f california to 83. Hes ahead in the polls by double din and its this race is ranked as a safe democrat race by real clear politics. The debate is about an hour. R of california. Tonight, the california debate. Good evening everybody. Im john myers. I am the moderator of this onehour debate. The two men and our studio are the only candidates, the governor jerry brown and the challenger neel kashkari. Let me introduce the journalist asking questions with me. This debate is being presented by the california channel and its cable tv partners, along with kqedtv. He rules are very simple opening and closing statements are 60 seconds each. 90 seconds to answer a question. The other candidate is given 30 seconds for her bottle. I will step in and make sure they stick to the topics. Both candidates have agreed to the debate rules. We tossed a coin. Neel kashkari won the coin toss. He chose to end the broadcast with a final statement. Lets begin. Our first Opening Statement from the incumbent. Good evening. Thank you. The messpeople forget california was in four years ago. There were a million jobs that have been lost. Our budget deficit was astronomical. 27 billion. We didnt have a budget on time in 10 years. There was bickering in sacramento. 27 billion. I rolled up my sleeves and cut that budget. The legislature me one that wasnt tough enough. I sent it back. Ive veto the first budget in the history of the state. It sent a powerful message. We started doing right and making the right decisions. That budget in three years from 27 billion in the red is now in the surplus. Jobs, all the jobs we lost in the recession, we got back. 1. 4 million jobs. Our schools, we are now increasing by 30 the funding available for the kids. 60 seconds. Thank you. Neel kashkari your statement. Thank you. In to thefor tuning two of us rather than the packers and seahawks. Governor because i want to rebuild the middle class of california. Governor brown means well. His 40 years in government has left them out of touch with the struggles of working families. He has declared a governor a california comeback. It is not only go we have the had the best schools in california. 46ths schools are ranked out of 50 states. We used to have a vibrant job market. Today it is 44th out of 50 states. We are number one in poverty. I know we can turn this around. I didnt come from a powerful family. I was a middleclass kid. I have lived the american from because i got a good education. I was able to get a good job and work hard. We can rebuild the middle class if we Work Together and aim high. I got the plan and the experience to get it done. Thank you. Lets get to the questions if we can. First, this is not a surprising question. The new field goal has you 16 points behind the man beside you. If you days ago the mayor of said she republican, is not sure she is voting for you. How can you win if a prominent republican isnt even sure you should be governor. I think actually is going to make a terrific comptroller. Im going to vote for the republican ticket. We have great candidates running this cycle. She and i dont agree on everything. We have different opinions on the highspeed rail. E dont have money it doesnt grow on trees. Governor brown wants to spend 70 million on i highspeed train. As a result of that Governor Brown has said no, we cannot afford a school bond. Republicans say we should be investing in schools. If we are spending 70 billion on the train, it crowds out the other investments. No two candidates are going to agree on everything. My commitment to the people of california, im going to cancel the highspeed train and invest in water in a real way. Governor browns own father led a major Infrastructure Investment in water around the state. Pat brown understood how critical water is. If i am elected governor im going to invest in water, not the train. Water in schools have to come first. I think the question was how do you expect to win . You dont have expectation to win because things have been [indiscernible] theyre calling california a failed state. Another greece. It is a serious surplus. That is impressive. Jobs, we are cutting arts programs in science, and now we have injected 2000 per student because of proposition 30. I think people know california is not perfect. We have our problems. What momentum do we have now. The next question is for Governor Brown. Parts ofor brown, many california depend on the water that comes from northern california. The federal government said your plan for new tunnels will break the law. What will you do . Thank you for bringing that up. In southern and northern california. Water is frome the north and the people are in the south. My father passed opposition want on the 1960 ballot. It is been a marvel for california. It is made california number one in fruits and bouts doubles. We have a problem. We have a delta system that protects the fresh water that that salte farms, water is only protected by dirt levees. We have to find a way to make sure to convey it through the delta. That is why for 50 years people have been trying either a canal or tunnels, or some other conveyance. We have a plan. The plan is going through the Environment Impact process. 75,000 pages of analysis. It is not cooked yet. We are taking comments. We will go over that and look for it. If anyone has a suggestion, but i am telling you the way we protect the mother in cal the water in california by balancing what is right for the north, it is when you take Something Like proposition one on your ballot. I hope people vote for it. Likes governor your time is up. Im concerned about the tunnels. 25 billion for these tunnels and the Obama Administration has concerns. Bay bridge,at the many Million Dollars over budget. , imat is the tract record an aerospace engineer. When i look at a big project that is over budget, i have concerns about mismanagement. Im not going to plow ahead with 50 billion and tunnels. We are one to put a brake on that and make sure we get it right. No tunnels. This has been on the table for 50 years. If that saltwater intrudes half the water to Silicon Valley will disappear in a matter of days. Thatll be a catastrophe. The obama epa is saying it is flawed. That is your own president saying that. Thank you gentlemen. It is aplemented couple kid issue. Another question. The governor of nevada and the head of tesla announced the is going to go to nevada. You believe Governor Brown did enough to keep tesla here . Taxd you have favored benefits or relief to get that factory . I dont think Governor Brown did enough. , and go. Usinesses it is tesla, toyota, nestle. They are all going. There is a problem. In the four years he has been governor we have been ranked 50th out of 50 states for business climate. If you look at wisconsin Governor Walker has been governor for the same term. Today they are 17th. That is Real Progress you can make in a few years. Governor brown hasnt done the work. Need reform. Environmental laws stymieing business investment. You try to get one off deals to Big Companies that hire lobbyists. , read my jobs plan, bring the expedited informants will review to all businesses. Not just a tesla, to big businesses, small businesses. We need to improve our economic client so that all of our job creators can do their best, can put california families back to work. We have to rebuild. Jobsed to bring could to california. 30 seconds. It is clear what happened. We fought hard for tesla. Upfrontnted a massive payment that i dont think would be fair to the taxpayers. We wish them well. When tesla was to build an electric car, they built it in california. Electric cars are a big part of our future. We have a million electric cars goal in california. We are going to meet it. I wish them well. California is the leading state for Renewable Energy and electric cars. We have 30 of the electric cars. Thank you. Im glad you asked about cars. The next question is for Governor Brown. You are a strong advocate of californias 2006 Climate Change law. Or the effort expands to include new roles on the production of fuel. Everybody believes that that is going to raise gas prices in 2015. How do you defend and increasing gas prices to hardworking families who may be struggling . These are the same scare tactics the Automobile Companies used. They fought it. I had to go to court against the big detroit automakers to get it. They cap saying the sky would fall it california raises the vehicle mile standards. What happened . They went bankrupt. Obama stepped in and the california standard is now the national standard. We have a cap and trade program. Climate change is a global challenge. It is an exit stencil threat. Existential threat. And the other fossil fuels affect the asthma rates, respiratory diseases. Carbon oilap on the companies can it net. If they dont meet that, we need an allowance. They provide that allowance. We buy transit, we buy green buildings. Was, the airestion Resources Board also says gas prices will go up. Today i would than the internet and saw a variation of 1. 50. Oil companies can have their own pricing strategy. Oil prices have varied . 10 23 times. I cant tell you what their prices going to be. Chevron had 21 billion last two. All these companies are threatening the wellbeing. Look at the forest fires in the rising sea level. That is time. Thank you. Thank you. Make no mistake, im an aerospace engineer. I believe Climate Change. His plan is designed to raise the cost of electricity for working families, to raise the price of gas. It is not fair to wallop working families by raising gas and utility prices. He is taking the money from that program to fund his highspeed train which will not do a thing to help climate. If i am governor it is not going to happen. Lets move to another topic. For neelquestion is kashkari. Votersof california think you should support and give shelter to a document undocumented immigrants coming into the United States. Said that when it comes to the use these children wishes in the back home to send a message. Do you continue to stand by your statement in light of the 15 of californians disagreeing . Im the son of immigrants. Immigration adds value to our country. It is personal for me. My heart goes out to the kids who are coming here from distressed countries. Kids in asia who are suffering, given africa who are suffering. The solution to the world suffering kids is not an open border in america. When he did treat the kids with compassion and care and respect, and we need to send them home. Then when he to work with the state department and our aid agencies to improve Living Conditions around the world. Sufferinglifornia are. What about the kids in california . Nine kids in california sued Governor Brown for violating civil rights. What about the kids in california . We have finite resources. Who is when a sign of im going to fight for California Kids. You stand by the statement. Of course i stand by the statement. Is the answer to the worlds needy kids and open border in america . We have compassion. Obama has said we need to keep them with compassion. Hillary clinton has said we need to treat them with compassion and send them home. We cant solve all the worlds problems with open borders. We need sensible immigration laws and embrace immigrants. When he 24s are laws and take kids we need to enforce laws and take care of kids in california. This is a tragedy. With mr. Kashkari. The law that they came in at under george bush gave these kids a hearing, i dont think we ought to change that. They ought to get a decent hearing. Some of them are facing games and murder, girls being put into prostitution. They came here all the way through mexico unaccompanied by adults. The least we can do is follow the law of california. Lets move forward. The next question, i think we maybe anticipating this. As you know, its been alluded to, teacher tenure in isifornia for teaching grossly ineffective and the result of such poor teaching shocks the conscience. When i would like to hear from you is whether you dispute those conclusions by the judge. Whether factual you disagree with the judge. I am appealing because the constitution requires the court of appeals to invalidate the laws of california. Why think there is a problem in the inner cities with the 1. 6 billion kids who speak no english at home, the kids who are homeless and poverty, yes, i do. I cared about kids. I started Charter Schools. At the oakland military school we had 10 of kids almost. Most of the parents were single. They were not married. There was gunfire in the streets. Challenges. The optedrnia has knowledge california has adopted educational reform that puts money into those classrooms with the challenges our toughest. California is acting where we need it most. They have no place in the classroom. Doit is not enough we will further [inaudible] tenureou think teacher affects that . Obviously it has some impact. The lack of language, the like of income, the lack of disproportionate funding, which we are now doing goes to the major factor. Y Charter Schools the judge got it right. This is one of the most important civil rights cases in years. Nine kids sued Governor Brown and said their civil rights are being violated by a failing school. You side with the union bosses per you should be ashamed of yourself. Im going to fight for the kids. That is so false. Its absolutely true. Gentlemen. Gentlemen. I do link were going to agree on this issue. I dont think we are going to agree on this issue. You can address it in your closing statement. [indiscernible] this is a question from me. I was a talk about you. California voters dont know you well yet. You champion the 2008 bailout of americas biggest banks known as tarp. You took a job with pimco, a company that may a direct profit from tarp backed securities. Is tarp and i is tarp and asset . It is an asset. Obamaesidents, bush and asked me to help lead the response. We hated the financial crisis. We wanted to let the banks fail. No one owed them anything. When our ptolemy when our economy was on the verge of president that is when bush and then president obama stepped in and said we need to stabilize the economy. The experts say you cant get it done, you cant do big things. Rejected the experts. We got george bush and obama to Work Together. And johnncy pelosi maynard Work Together. We work to stabilize the economy and then we rejected the taxpayers. We got every dollar back. We made a 13 billion profit. Governor brown praise president obamas leadership for his role in stabilizing the banking sector. Thank you for the compliment. I am proud that we got democrats to Work Together. I know we can get them to Work Together in sacramento for the people of california. Governor brown. You can get everybody to go along. The system will stabilize. The bonuses that were given after the bailout, 32 billion, talk about distorting the middle class. That exacerbate it the unfairness that wall street has integrated to with the home foreclosures and unemployment. Lets bail them out. Dont give them a bonus on top of the money the taxpayers have to pay. People who caused the problem got rewarded. I give you a slight extra bit. Brown, you are being sued for rating [indiscernible] you spend it somewhere else i know youre being sued by home profits. Different topic. It is exactly related to this. It is true. Gentlemen. Hundreds of people its a good clash. Lets go to the next question ofe coming from the studio the california studio in sacramento. Brown, one of your biggest programs has been realignment. Some of them have committed new clients crimes, and crime rates are going up. Is realignment a success or has it moved the problem from the state to the county . Realignment is the biggest change in 40 years. Anything in government takes time. This is a longterm process of realigning what the counties do, and what the states do. Offenders lower should not come in at outofstate prison like a revolving door. Over the last 30 years, california increases prisons by 500 . They didnt put any money in it. The conditions were crowded. Reduce the court population. That,er to do [indiscernible] we need Mental Health services, drug treatment, monitoring by gps, and with proposition 40 we guaranteed billions of dollars for local counties to pay for the program. It is working. The people who carried it out endorsed my candidacy. This is an important measure. It is by no means perfect. There have been in some places spikes and property crime. I would say the first two years is a success. Thank you. 30 seconds. The program is a failure. Governor brown is not going to criminals. Gerous a 39yearold man went on and robbed and raped his own grandmother. These are dangerous people being released. If im elected governor im going to keep them locked up. Are going to rent more bad else. Releasing them is not a way of making us safer. We are when a fight the courts to do that. , thee choices release them is a stop unacceptable option. I want to return to something you mentioned. Both of you have argued for the need for summer form for some reform. It also has been a mainstay of environment protection. My question is, what reforms do you envision specifically that would speed up development and growth and would not do that at the expense of the Government Environment . When the kings are going to leave, and they look at this and normalghost through the process, its going to take years extra and millions of dollars of extra cost. Governor brown signed and expedited review and said we are going to speed that process up and limit the losses so there is a review. We are not checking the environment to rules. Reasonable and predictable. Thats a good plan. Instead of giving it to those who were politically connected like the kings or big businesses , why do we adopt that new standard and make it available to everyone . Big businesses, small businesses, anybody who wants to invest in california . All of these policies are well meaning. This is why jobs are leaving the state. We have the highest poverty rate in america. How can that be . This great state. We have done this to ourselves. Wellmeaning policies that make the state not jobs friendly. 50th of 50 states. Jobs leave and poverty goes up. Lets not talk all regulations. Lets have sensible regulations invest andsses can bring jobs back here. Governor, a response . I have been fighting for the reform since i was mayor of oakland. There was political pressure. Very hard to get it across the board. If we can we will. There are reforms you can make. It has been quite a challenge to reform it. That is not what is Holding California back. We created 1. 2 million jobs. We have extended health care. Instead of having 22 without health care really have 11 percent. , of is the place of google dreams, big best agriculture in the whole country. Californiare hearing is run down, and no jobs. That is not the picture of california i know a love. I love this state and i know it works. Thank you, Governor Brown. The next question for you, sir, the incumbent here and it is from me. Governor, we all know and should clear, you did not create the high speed rail project it existed before you came back in office but you have champion. Biggest republicans keep telling you can california is mott going to get washingtonlion from that that project anticipates. Can you tell voters right now speed rail be built if the feds do not give you the money . It will for a simple reason. It is cheaper than building runways. And airport there is something a lot of people forget. Thexpand and meet 10 million or 15 million new people we have to expand norrstate 5, build freeways, more airports and more runways. If we take part of that burden put it into high speed rail it will be cheaperrion cleaner. Oil. Ll not burn we will use the sun and wind and it will help where we need jobs most. That high speed rail is starting in the Central Valley and that mayor of fresno supports high speed rail. Investing 2 billion of state money. 3 billion of federal money on first phase and that will be impaction of economically. It is good for california and carbonower the footprint. We have a bit of time. I will give a minute because mr. Kashkari call calls it a cry train. Governor, is it a crazy train . I think he is more familiar with the gravy train in paid outn that 30 million in bonuses. This train makes a lot of sense. Highher can countries have speed rail. China which on a per capita basis is poorer than america or poorer than california just will 5,000 miles and they build another 5,000miles to get to tibet. We can do it. Like they said you couldnt panama canal. Tha we did it within the 90 seconds almost. He is Rhode Islanding your gas prices he is raising your prices to fund what i call the crazy train. Jobs. Alk about creating you know what else creates jobs . Building water storage around the state. Not one dam. Infrastructuretructur investment. Invest it in water. The Construction Projects both create jobs but lets have feedhing useful that can the state for the next several decades by investing in water in real way not one little project like the water bond. And even crazy train your own Lieutenant Governor said this makes no sense. We have to cancel the trinidad in higher priorities. We have other investments to make, not the crazy train, governor. Move another topic here. The california debate, the raise for governor 2014 from the studios of the california channel. Your question next is to mr. Kashkari. Mr. Kashkari, six years ago, banfornia voters approved a on samesex marriage proposition 8. You were one of the 130 conservatives who signed a brief urging that the u. S. Supreme prop 8. Overturn how do you explain your position to the people of california who supported prop 8 . I want the government out of our lives and like Governor Brown i thought that that law was wrong banning samesex marriage. If two people want to get married that is between the two of them and god and god bless and i hope they have a wonderful life whoever they are. Rebuilding the class. The government should stay out of our lives. I applauded Governor Brown and forattorney general exercising discretion in not fliesing the case which in the face of what Governor Brown said earlier today. Appropriate discretion and i applauded him appealingthat in not the prop 8 ruling. I wish he could use the same discretion in fighting for poor minority kids in california. Jerry brown, 30 seconds. Salesman. You learn that on wall street when he sold all that stock and went sour. A lot about poor kids in the state. I did create a Charter Schools to beland and i went mayor of a tough hard scramble city and created the local control formula. Think the only state that spends a significant extra to the schools where they have poor kids and kids that dont speak english. Real answer. Bad teachers in the schools of california and certainly not me. If that doesnt go far enough we will take more steps at the next legislative session. We both pivoted there off the appreciate the about objection here. The next question in the debate is from jim newton for the incumbent jerry brown. Governor, you have called californias unfunded pension ever growing. And what can and will you do in the fourth term as governor that you to do in yourble third term as governor to turn around the pension situation . See because there is some of this imaginary here this you wonder is california or in arkansas or mississippi . This is the eighth largest the whole world. Before i became governor it was the ninth largest. Progress. Ing 1. 4 million jobs. A deficit 27 billion. A wall of debt, 32 billion. We paid down the deficit. Of the wall oflf debt and did pension reform. We stopped spiking. Of retirement. Ge made employees pay 50 of the pensions. T of in addition to that we put a cap on the pensions themselves. Funded over the period of decades our teachers retirement that was on the to go bankrupt. Is it enough . No. I can tell you i have been in fairly long time. Things dont get done with a release or glib] statement. They take many, many years. Reformst pension probably in californias history year. Ted last w we got republicans as well as democrats. We will do more. This is not easy. Next four years we will go further in the pension, we will do something about Retiree Healthcare and most importantly we will keep paying down our wall of debt. Arnold schwarzenegger borrowed. It was really a credit card. That off, less debt service and then take time on other bills. You like to say that we are the eighth largest economy. Governor wee first but w were the fifth largest. We need to turn this around and chas. D the middle the governor is not being honest with us about pensions. Is total liabilities 500 billion. The first thing he did as governor is throw people off the boards of the agencies that were fighting for honest accounting and right now they are the stock market is going to go to the moon for the next 20 years and governor doesnt calludget that into question. The first thing i will do as governor is appoint people to boards who are committed to honest accounting to be honest with you the people of california on how much you and i the hook for and that is how we bring people together. Holenest about how big the is and bring people together and start a real process. Not just tinkering around the edges incrementalism. Done. Get it next question for you, kakhkari. Jobsalled obama care a destroyer. No state has done more to make it reality other than california. Under the man sitting next to you. If elected would you try to dismantle it in california, the exchange, all of it . Fly want to fix it. Obama care is personal for me. Plan was condition selled, true story under obama care. I premium went up 27 and now cant go to the old doctor i went to. The good news is i can enough money i can afford it so im okay. I have good health insurance. Have concerns when 16 of californiaians, 16 percent of californiaians either have no job or stuck in a parttime job. Not talking about real california. You at home, do you think we are back . You have thethat job that we want . Hang on for a second im coming to it. Thank you. We have a major piece of federal legislation that incentivizes reducing worker hours and reducing the number of fulltime employees. Big concerns about obama care through what it will do to the job market when it incentivizes employers to cut back on workers. Need a Healthcare Plan in california and nationally that incentivizes job creation. If i was governor this is the land. L law of the i cant unilaterally change and it. Dee sign i follow to redesign it. But you wont cancel the exchange. Im not going to but we need to fix it and put californiaians back to work. My highest priority. Governor brown, 30 seconds, please. Much glib statement statementst dont comport with reality. I feel like im getting a sales know who. I dont neel. Learned your job well there sachs and goldman, the rest of the people who wrecked the economy. Bailed them out. Arsonists putting out the four. The fire. California is doing the best job putting obama care into practice. Parties, two branches of government or rather two houses. But we are making Real Progress what im most proud of that the number of uninsured is going ben to 11 and used to closer to 25 . So that is good. And that is when we are trying to do. By the way, when you talk about the poor people, im the one who minimum wage to 10 bucks and gave latinos licenses so they could legally tribe to work. There are millions who arent documented who are picking our working in our factories. As we move on here into what i call the home stretch of the debate, a question close to the issue. Governor brown, now this you the Illegal Immigrants is around 1. 4 Million Immigrants this are getting ready to get the drivers license that you just january 2015. Unlike normal california driver license they will get one with a indicate toshow and everybody their undocumented is the to us. Undocumented status. Could you have a plan to ensure profiling will not become a problem with the new license . The california Highway Patrol protect the rights of all california drivers and we are still foyting with the Obama Administration to get a mark that we feel will not lead to discrimination. Important thing is so many people over a Million People will be able to legally work and that has been really a shock thing that we labor but wont let them legally get to the job. We will not let the difference is a difference because the federal law requires an good forn this is not federal identification purposes. It is only good for california. But that is a big thing. There were people who were getting arrested, taking kids to site orgo together job going out to the farms. I think the big thing is empowering so many good hardworking californiaons no its really in the face of action in washington, gridlock use used to have in sacramento before i got there. Places in shambles. Water plan. Ve a didnt have pension reform. We had a huge wall of debt. We are getting stuff together respect to immigration california is setting the pace whether a trust act, we are not arbitrarily Holding People in jail so the Immigration Service up. Pick them i signed the dream act so kids who qualify for the university can go to school and get a scholarship. I think that will build for the future because so many of our about 30 are either undocumented or dont speak english. Quick. Rnor, very the main thing is do you have a strategy to monitor that this is not going happen . Even though they train the police theye, the will have that drivers license. Anybody can see it in. To open a and try bank account or buy something in the supermarket. I will instruct the commissioner of the Highway Patrol to take whatever steps are necessary to prevent that. I will do the same thing working police andcal sheriffs and thirdly to the extent that we hear anything he action take immediate upon those reports. Mr. Kashkari, would you have signed it, by the way . We need federal immigration reform. Criticisms of Governor Brown is there are a lot of issues that affect california said he it is not his issue and it is federal law. Federale fighting on issues, too. If that means i have to go to for federalo fight reform i will to that. In drivers license, i want them to be safe, i want all drivers safe. But we cant just solve this at a state level. Legislation for the whole country. But the discrimination was the key question. Fight it throughout society. As the son of immigrants myself, growing up, we have to make sure that every kid from every nationality in every background and every community is free from discrimination. I will do everything to make happens. Would you have signed that or vetoed it . The would have signed drivers license. Browns predecessor was like you, a republican, a moderate. The last republican governor of this sit. How do you rate schwarzeneggers legacy . I really admire governor schwarzenegger. Nothing. O america with he was an immigrant. He came here with his dreams and hard work and talent and look accomplished . He built an amazing life for andelf, tremendous success frankly an inspiration for all of us. I feel that resonates with me as a son of immigrants myself from a middle class background. My dad wasnt governor. I grew up mowing lawns and bagging groceries. As theto sit here republican nominee for governor im proud that people like me and like schwarzenegger could what we are achieving. I dont think that he was as successful as he would have liked to have been. I spent three years in washington, d. C. Tackling the economic crisis our nation has faced since the great depression. Everyone told us you cant get republicans and democrats to navigatether and cant the house and senate. We got them to Work Together. We got the leaders of both countryto put their before their political careers and that inspired me to run now. Do big thingscan in washington, d. C. For the american people, in a time of know, therisis, you people of california many of them are in crisis today. 24 poverty. Governor brown doesnt like to talk about it. 24 poverty today. Families are in crisis and governor tofor but t fight for them. Please. Conds i have seen nothing in his program that will help poor people. Jobs, governor. Follows from the bonuses to goldman, sachs. Oldman i think the way arnold had insiders but takes knowledge to get it done. Our state was in a shambles. Were calling it a failed state. It is back. It is not all the way back and create the construct if we are not perfect we are not making progress. Incrementalg progress. 1. 4 million jobs and recovering faster than the rest of the nation. Are moving forward. We have more money going to our instead of more layoffs and we have a water bond a rainy dayone and fund to save funds for hard times if they come. Hope everybody on the ballot november will vote for proposition 1 and proposition 2. Next question from me, you. Nor, its to may be one of the simpler questions. One of the most talked about at the state capital was a statewide ban on plastic bags. Let me ask you the simple question first, paper or plastic . Paper, i guess. This . L you sign no, i probably will sign it, yes. Willl you what, in fact i tell you why i will sign it. Normally i dont tell you ahead of time and we get the bill get enrolled and i can read it. Here is the key thing. There are about 50 cities with their own Plastic Bag Ban and that is causing con fowlkes and have one andthe grocers said ls statewide ban that is reasonable. This bill has been worked through. Of the the nature legislative process and a compromise and taking into account the needs of the economy andand the grocers. I think on balance this will protect the environment because much waste and throughput but at the same time we are doing it in a standard disrupt will not business in california. Mr. Kashkari . No chance would i sign that. Have been working on for the last month banning plastic bags. Regulating football practice because the families of california cant decide how much practice is enough. A and now i can now bring my dogs to restaurants. Im a dog lover. Im grateful for that. They are not working on rebuilding the middle class. Incrementalng changes. We are 46th in education. 44th for jobs. Number one in poverty. Time for incrementalism is past, governor. We need reform to build the middle class. Bags and bringing my dogs to restaurant is not going to do it. Regulating football practice or soccer or baseball. Backed jobs to get people to work, governor. There are awful lots of california families that would see the governor do more when it comes to bringing down attending colleges. What is the best way to make College Affordable for all . This is a critical issue. When i went to graduate school i took out 100,000 in loans. Something that is a really scare where thing to do for a kid. Are you going to be able to pay it back . I was fortunate and able to get a good job and able to pay it back. Kids cantlifornia get into the california universities first of all because they are taking out of outofstate students because students. Igher or graduating with thousands of dollars in debt and no jobs. Here. Are big issues our california schools are funded per student. So the more stow dents they have money they get from the state. That sounds right except it incentive. Per verse they are incentivized to collect students and hoard them on graduate them to and move them on and get the classes that they need. Fundingates changed the model so the universities are actually incentivized to make sure that the kids get the need and can actually graduate on time and make sure that we can have more theents come in and incentives are aligned. The first thing i would do is incentives so the universities are focused on student outcomes. He would have to put students first. My dad was a professor at the local college. The student vs. To come before making sureand California Kids not outofstate students, California Kids come and get the classes they need and then if we grow the economy with jobs reforms that jobs waiting for them when they graduate here in california. Governor brown, what can you do about College Costs . I froze tuition for three at the university of california and cal state. Half of the kids who go to the colleges pay no tuition and it is among the the whole country. Kids graduating from california colleges have about half the that others have. There is nothing that will help the middle class in my opponents plan. Have you read it . I have and i was unimpressed to tell you the trout. Truth. I signed to help kids that dont get the scholarship. The middle class scholar high ship andwe have breezen frozen. Most worriedou about his plan . You said he read it. He said the answer to poverty jobs. Create the only thing to do about creating jobs is get rid of regulations and reduce taxes. He opposed proposition 30 which is putting the money into the universities, 500 million and 5 billion in the k12. Cracked open the door here. Which taxes in my plan, cuff, am i cutting . Curious if you know . It is very vague. Vague. S not very it is very specific, governor. Very specific governor. If yourself. It is very specific. We are at the time we have to do closing statements. Will ask a question quickly. This has been fun. Fun. Has been would you another debate, governor . I think we exposed the differences. Are clear to me. And this is kind of a format you can play it over and over again at your house. And im sure we will have it on the california channel and other places. At the place for closing statements. Both candidates one minute. Brown. St from governor thank you. This is the spirited debate. Opinion. Erences of but i just want to get back to fundamentals. Four years ago when i went to sham sacramento the place was in shambles. Majority of people in california feel we are on the right track. Only 13 felt we were on the right track. We are taking care of water and compensation and createda rainy day fund. I know there is coming back and forth. Jobs. T 1. 4 million since i have been elected almost come back toave and that isnt by accident. We lowered the sales tax on manufacturing. Encouraging biocom and agriculture. California has challenges but we have momentum and we are headed in the right direction. Brown the incumbent. Thank you for your closing statement. Neel kasrkari . The we question, is your family back . Your kids in good schools today . Do you have the job that you want and the job that you deserve . Im running for governor to fight for your family and to fight to rebuild the middle every kid in california has the same shot in life that i had. Immigrants, ie was a middle class kid. I got a good education and got a good job and worked hard and lived the american dream. Im running for governor so california has the same chance that i had and you can get the job you want and betterrd and build a life for yourself and your family. Just my candidacy but if im elected my entire governorship to rebuild the can live theso you life that you want to live. I dont think we are back. We can make big changes. We have to make big changes. I have the plans and experience do it and im asking for your vote. Thank you, republican challenger. And let me thank also jerry brown. Spirited debate. Could have brought the dogs in the next time. Candidateso both being here for the california debate. An early depate in the election season. First ballots go out by mail in three weeks and overseas and military before that. Thanks to jim newton of the Los Angeles Times and duni of telemundo 52. And to the california channel in and all of your partners in the debate. Message here, folks in the debate is really to all of you who are watching and vote in thishome, election. Here are some highlights for this coming weekend. On thurds, former Virginia Governor Bob Mcdonnell and his wife were convicted of corruption charges. The u. S. Torpe for the Eastern District of virginia spoke to reporters after the verdict. The attorney said they will appeal. Sentences is set for january 6th. Good afternoon. This is a difficult and disappointing day for the commonwealth and its citizens. Public service frequently requires sacrifice although always requires financial sacrifice. When Public Officials turn to financial gain in return for official act we have little choice but to prosecute the case. You saw thank, as they were tremendous, mike, jessica, david, and ryan and our paralegal. Also, assistant attorney and the Public Integrity section who were our partners on this case. Finally, i would like to thank the men and women of the federal bureau of investigation, Virginia State police and the Internal Revenue service. They were our partners in every respect in this case and although you all saw the trial, the pains taking preparation was really remarkable. Thank you. I want to echo what david said. This was a challenging case for our team, this is a challenging case for the twelfth. And i want to thank the United States attorneys commonwealth. I thank the attorneys office. I thank the i. R. S. And Virginia State police for their partnership. I think this case sends an important message. The f. B. I. Will engage and engage vigorously in any credible allegation of corruption. Public corruption is the f. B. I. s criminal investigative priority and cases like this are extremely important to our agency and to the community. So with that i thank my team who has worked tirelessly on this case and again dana. So with that, thank you. Sir, what would you say that was the conspiracy the way you were able to connect the dots . Im sorry we arent going to take any questions. We cant add much than what was said in court. Thank you. Next, a discussion about combating corruption and human rights abuses around the world. This is an hour and 10 minutes. Thanks, everybody. Welcome to those that have not been here before, and those that have been welcome back, especially to the representatives here. I have my points here i will try to go quickly through. Im the executive director of global integrity. On behalf of the panel, welcome everyone here for the event. We have been sponsored with the state department. And global integrity, and gobal financial integrity. The events for consistent brief opening remarks i will then lead a dialogue with questions from me to the panelists in response to their presentation and perhaps from the floor the audience here and to the listeners ond line. Theres a whole Team Monitoring twitter so for those out there, ubmit questions at any time. Traditional resources are also on human rights. Gov state of rights. Irst, we have tom here everyone knows the long track record of human rights. Now assistant secretary of state. A real thrill ive been a fan from afar but tickled to have you here today. Everyone is excited to hear not actually tickled. Just excited to be here. And ill start i know youll plans, w you all have how you see these. So let me turn to you and then well go from there. Thank you so much. Thanks to you all for coming out and participating in this discussion. I think weve got a big audience around the world on line. The viewing party so i say hello to all of you there and to everybody else. In answer to your question, in the countries that keep me up at night human rights and corruption are the main issues. These are not different interlocking theyre the same issue. If youre in nigeria, forced to pay bribes to protect your place in the market or a rich businessman in russia who exposes a scheme and gets murdered for it, you are confronting exactly the same problem. And if you look at thor taryn regimes around the world, corruption is basically the central theme. Its the reason why a lot of dictators claim to power in the first place. Its the glue that holds those regimes together. Because you have to be corrupt to be part of the inner circle. By virtue of being corrupt it gives your ultimate master something to hold over you if you ever turn disloyal. And its also as we have seen so many times in the last few years it is the issue around through which people who fight for democracy and human rights rally the public around. Russia, china, burma, this is the thing that causes with all other issues, popular protest in favor of democracy, rule of law and accountable government. And i think it has struck us in the Obama Administration also as one of the most focusing on the corruption. Its a nexus to abuse and power as one of the most effective ways to effectively counter human rights abuses and undemocratic regimes for a number of reasons. Number one, theres no excuse for corruption in any political cupttur or society. Everyone claims to be against there are regimes who do have excuses for arresting journalists or shutting down the internet or doing a lot of other terrible things. But no one can excuse eevement thats number one. Number two, opposition to corruption has to be a unifying factor amongst the very populations the dictators try to divide. So whether youre sunni or shia in bahrain or iraq, this is something that brings them together. Whether Northern Nigeria or southern nigeria this brings you together. National lists, liberals in russia, they all are connected by corruption of the government. I think most people around the world recognize the International Action against corruption is something thats legitimate. It has flowing through the International Banking system and for example the russia Public Opinion polls consistently have shown that most ordinary russians are unhappy when foreign governments oppress their Country Press their country. That they tend to be very happy when they impose sanctions on corrupt people. So this is something that we have been looking very carefully at the administration, how can we enhance our efforts . Theres a great deal that we are doing and we have been doing with our allies and partners have been doing. As weve all noticed the times some of the mechanisms and tools that we have in place to deal with corrupt autsdzthor taryn leaders around the world tend to act like a tax on foreigners. We act very effectively on someone out the door. The question were facing is how can we act more effectively before that moment comes. And therefore a lot of things that we can talk about getting our own act in order in terms of Beneficial Ownership legislation, so that we can more effectively cohen counter that in other jurisdictions. Using tools that justice and Treasury Department has when we detect the flow of money that is linked to corruption all the way to organizations and combating this at the grass roots. It is a high priority. I think you will see it emerging as a high priority for us in the future. Thank you so much. Senior s turn to the olicy director thank you so much. And good morning, everyone. Thank you to the state department. You know, my Organization Works on business, economy, and other things. A fight against corruption is a fight for human rights. We found the ability of government, for example, if you have a corrupt resource, access to security for all. There are things about corruption that my cohosts might be giving but i found one statistics in particular. It says that the money lost to corruption each year is enough hungry 850 orlds imes over. I brought examples are probably a little more than just to be talked about. So lets start in the country where i grew up and i dont know how many of you thought about the themes but the Third Largest in the world. In 2010 in ippedia they meant o show india as a rising economy. But they were anything but that. Lmost all of the contractors were fraud. The games cost more than they estimated. 150 addition to that, workers died while building the games. And many were built by child layers earning 3. Now nigeria is strapped. They are the largest resource of oil and they have the potential. Unfortunately, nigeria scores very poorly on development. Most of the country has poor quality. And in fact its infant mortality base is ten times that of lang la dash which is also poor. Said and what he talk about taxes. Ukraine has been in the news much. Earlier this year the Prime Minister spent 37 billion. And this is when the average monthly salary of the ukrainian is 500. That really shows and we pictures of the pal larblee estate and we found that was partly owned by a company. That shows the influence of Shell Companies in facilitating corruption. In addition to that i want to point out how difficult it is to recover funds. There are estimates that mubarak stole billions of dollars. Unfortunately, some estimates go as high as 70 billion but only about 1 billion or 2 has ever been frozen and even less than that has been returned. So with that i think it is time o pass on the mic to john. The coordinator at the world bank which is in some ways a central local glue theeleds a lot of us together. And similar gain ssues. Thanks very much. Let me bring a little bit the World Bank Perspective to that. First, notice the corruption itself and we raised that. I think one of the examples that we have in the moment is one of tunisia. The bank issued the paper showing that there was evidence that the family ended up taking 10 . So this is what we call stape capture. So when you look at the grand corruption, what is at stake is the ability of officials to control that. And what to do about it. So the estimates we have is that between 20 and 40 billion per year comes out of the countries. So these are lost resources. The number of organizations, the number of households you can account. The only thing is the impunity. In those situations clearly the social contract with that state. So we start we are looking at this right now is to follow the money as contribution and we agree that the best place in which we could be is there is no corruption. But lets be realistic. So its what you do about it. Just to bring one number of why there is such a huge agenda. The early estimate is 20 billion since 2006 our estimate is that at best 500 million has been recovered and 2 billion frozen. Theres been a huge gap between estimates and the actual recovery of assets being frozen. So we all need to do more. This only works. So its about government, its about Financial Centers that need to do more to make sure that the Financial System is ot takeen as a core asset. Its about countries. Some of them are not Strong Enough in terms of going after officials. It is difficult in terms of investigating their own. Theres only so much you can do. But still theres much more that can be done. Well come back to that in a moment. Transparency in the Financial System and ownership is absolutely a corner stope to this in approximate terms of prevention and recovery. Second, Business Needs to do more. We are seeing increasing organizations from business and industry to the fact that corruption is such a tax on them, they need to do something. They have been working on this which is most welcome. There is one failure, which is the financial sector, what is the role of the financial sector. I think a lot of this real liss making i think still there is not as much on what they can do and participate in terms of the detection. And then theres the role of Civil Society. I think we come from the recovery perspective in terms of advocacy, in terms of the against corruption we see a lot of this from sil society. I think more can be done on the very asset recovery. First, advocacy so that if something happens in the countries, a push for more investigation, the second is about detection and expotion. And weve seen this in ukraine where Civil Society. But what we are seeing emerging is that in Civil Society engaged. And weve seen that in countries. We think this is another action by prosecution and criminal justice that needs to be focused on. Thank you. Then heather, who is Legal Counsel for Global Financial integrity. We get phone calls for each other on a weekly basis. Another stallwart fixture on these issues. Thank you so much. Im really meezed to be here. And hello to everybody in cyber space around the world. Its exciting to have this opportunity to talk to you and hopefully get some of your questions and get a discussion going. I work for an organization based here in d. C. And were best known for our numbers on illicit financial flows. Estimate that 850 to 1 trillion leaves developing economies in illicit money every year. Thats a huge amount of money. Thats a devastating amount of money. Thats money that could be working within a developping countrys economy to generate growth. Thats money that could be taxed in various ways to actually create domestic revenue. Its also money that could be leaving or being transferred from government coffers to treasuries. So this is a really huge problem. And it is absolutely a drivor of essentially poverty around the world. So our numbers are based on World Bank Data and imf data publicly available data, take a look at what we do and how we do it in our reports but really its sort of broken down into two sections. We can tell that about 20 of that figure is money thats just disappearing from the global economy. How but tell exactly things like bribes that might be paid out in one place or money being taken out of the treasuries. Other is wire transfers, International Wire transfers that are sent but disappear in the international Financial System. This is stuff that happens regularly. So thats about 20 of the numbers. So whats the other 80 . The other 80 based on the data is trade missed invoicing. Thats where the invoice for an International Trade in goods doesnt match up on either side of that transaction. So thats a really interesting concept. Were just talking about global trade. People say well its trade, whatever. Well there are really only three reasons why you would ve a situation where trade misuse exists. The first is tax evasion. Basic tax evasion. The second is where youre trying to disguise the movement of i will liss money flowing around the world. Youre also using trade. Youre commingling the proceeds of bribery and drug funds et cetera with legitimate trade so that it doesnt appear to have been moved. The third of course is human error. People do mistakes. Those show up on ip voices. They do not show up on invoices to the tune of 800 billion around the world however. So we can discount that for the most part. So thats what we have. We have this 80 20 splits. Most people in the room would think of the 20 , most of what goes into that 20 is sort of bribe payments that you would see the, you know, the money moving from government treasuries. Thats what we traditionally think of aws corruption. Thats corruption. Thats but what about that 80 , the trade related stuff . Is that corruption . Its kind of a live debate right now. I think a lot of people are talking about it. Actually assistant secretary of state referred to some of the financial interlinkages between corruption human rights and actually the Movement Among trade around the world. So that is certainly a live debate. And if you take a step back and look at the definition of corruption, not a Legal Definition because thats going to be very narrow, but the accepted definition of what orruption is, you come up with corrupt proceedings, more per version. And to be corrupt is to be guilty of dishonest practices, lacking integrity, crooked. Im pretty sure that all of evasion that tax part, that covering up, that falls pretty squarely within that definition of corruption. Right . But we dont really think of it that way. And when we address it internationally, were addressing it with looking at the global trade regime and making adjustments to Global Trading practices. When we do that with bribery, . I dont think so. Would we do that with stolen assets out of a treasury . I dont think so. So why are we doing it when it comes to these sort of trade practices . Why are we not putting those squarely in that category of corruption . So thats something for discussion, something i wanted to throw out there for people to think about. To bring that back to human rights, to give an example, would be a case that just came down, Big French Bank that the u. S. Just hit with an 8. 9 billion fine for evading u. S. Sanctions. Included were the sanctions that we had put in place with respect to sudan. We but those sanctions in place because the Sudanese Government was involved in genocide. And it was the u. S. s view that we didnt want to have u. S. Dollars supporting that type of activity. So we put the sanctions in place. It was an attempt by us to try and prevent the financing of the government from perpetrating genocide. A big issue, a big human rights issue. So all it really meant for a bank around the world was they couldnt do u. S. Dollar transactions with anybody in sudan. They could do euro transactions, they could do other transactions but not dollar transactions. So the section of the bank decided that wasnt something they were willing to comply with because that was going to be way too much of the cost of business for them. So the section of the bank that said yeah were going to come up with this really intricate impressive way of evading u. S. Sanctions here was actually the trade finance group. The trade finance group was the group that could not bear not to do u. S. Dollar transactions with the Sudanese Government and those were transactions with the Sudanese Government among others. So it tells you how important that link between trade, trade finance and human rights corruption sanctions is. It matters that much to that bank. So thats just to give you that sort of context. Ill end today by saying we are really pushing for a new target in the post 2015 Sustainable Development rules and that is o reduce those traderelayeded illicit financial flows by 50 by 2030 and were hoping people around the world will join us. Because it is such a critical issue to development, to human rights, to corruption, that were really hoping that people will get behind that. So thats about all i have. Thank you very much. Thanks, everybody, for opening remarks. What i will do is to abuse the chair for a minute and ask a quick round of first questions then we will go to the twitter verse and facebook to field others from around the world. What i was thinking of doing is offer three really hard questions. You can choose each from one. So far we have a lot of really good enthusiasm, corruption is bad, i think the whole audience agrees with that. So let me make it harder. Sort of dig in. So the first, the choices are, one is the growth myth. So there are some data and certain studies that says it can be an impediment on growth. We have a hard one. Much of southeast asia, rwanda and singapore today. So how do we square that . One is the answer, are there just allies in the International Communities that live with that or not . The second, the assistant secretary talked about the galvanizing effect that corruption can have in moments in a countrys trajectory. But what happens in the aftermath . Look at egypt and ukraine today. That glue seems to come undone quickly in certain countries. How much can we rely on corruption as a driver for mass motivation for political change . Are we setting ourselves up for kind of frustration and failure in the aftermath . So thats the second choice. The third would be, for anybody to sort of dig into the dissidents and Foreign Policy itself in a number of countries. This is made famous in afghanistan and iraq but in countries where we spend a lot of money tying Political Capital diplomatically pushing issues of transparency and yet bribery is a very key element in the tool box in agencies around the world including our own . How does that get square . Ten minutes late ter c. I. A. Station wants a briefcase of cash saying this is how its supposed to work. And thats not an exaggeration. None of these are easy. So hile let you pick to ill let you pick. If you want to take the first hot. Let me take a couple of them. First, the frustrations that we face in countries that have these kinds of movements and dont always succeed. They dont always succeed. Thats always been true and it always will be true. Its true in every Foreign Policy issue that we work on. I have a saying that my folks are probably tired of hearing that human rights diplomacy and in fact all Foreign Policy is like baseball. If youre batting 300 you go to the hall of fame. Nd so yes, you will have the egypt where things seem to be they appear to be revolution in a liberal sense but they come back to the beginning in a circle. But then you will have other Success Stories or potential Success Stories like tunisia, like potentially burma we hope where movements that are galvanized in part because of popular revulsion over political anticorruption do actually lead to somewhat better, somewhat cleaner government taking into account the governments are run by hukes and we are imperfect and no problems all get solved. And in terms of contradictions in americas Foreign Policy, also again governments are run by human beings and we are full of contradictions. But i think the way in which we can resolve some of that is to recognize honestly that there are times in which we have to deal with as the president has acknowledged and others, we have to deal and make deals with governments that dont live up to our expectations and our ideals, and a whole host of areas. But we can also simultaneously use tools that are designed to enforce our laws and our job of try to deal with any contradictions that arise in terms of anticorruption. A lot of the tools and mechanisms we have are neutral Law Enforcement mechanisms that are the purview of professionals in our Justice Department and Treasury Department in parts of our government that are nonpolitical and are told to do their jobs in a nonpolitical way, and do their jobs in a nonpolitical way, even if it sometimes makes life harder for diplomats and for those conducting other aspects of our Foreign Policy. And thats a good thing those contradictions are healthy. I prefer tha im going to choose your question about egypt and certain countries like that. Something started out as an anticorruption movement. Certainly china and egypt do have one thing in common and expression on Civil Society. You need a little bit more than an initial revolution. You need an enabling environment. Certain othershes countries, which of been more successful than others. You maded to add the link between corruption and growth i grew up in india and i would not adhere to the view