Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20150420

Access from being an Information Service to a Telecommunications Service regulated as a common carrier pursuant to 19thcentury we are road regulation. Common carriage is a vestige of the English Common law. It was originally applied to railroads and Trucking Companies and airlines, but it has been repealed for all those industries going on over 30 years ago. It proved to impose new costs on consumers. It delayed deployment, slowed innovation, and chilled investment. We both agree that Net Neutrality protections are important, and that is an important thing to start with. But we disagree with a lawsuit. We have been very supportive of the rules that the sec enacted and have now become a force of law. We think that after a decade of working toward a way to have Net Neutrality rules that could hold up in court that this is the strongest set of protections that we have seen in the three different attempts at the agency to ensure that the internet remains open. Tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan2. Back now to the republican partys leadership summit from New Hampshire friday and saturday. Remarks now from marco rubio. His comments are about 40 minutes. Senator rubio thank you. Thank you very much. It is an honor to be here. Thank you very much. It has been a fascinating week probably the most historic week of my life. On monday, i declared for president. It has been a fun journey. I wrote some notes down because i wanted to remember everything that happened. I was asked whether 43 was old i was asked whether 43 was old enough to be president. I said i am not sure, but i am sure 44 is. I have worn more wire then an fbi agent because of microphones. And Hillary Clinton will raise 2. 5 billion, which is a lot of chipotle. I was texting with my youngest daughter, and i meant to say im in nashua. The spellcheck changed it to nassau. She wrote back, how many delegates does the bahamas have . Im not sure, but we will go for every single one of them. It is an honor to be here. Thank you, jennifer, for inviting me. It is great to see scott brown. We wish he would come back. We miss him in the senate gym. One of the few people who worked out. Everybody else is there to watch morning joe on the tv. You have a great senator in kelly ayotte, someone i have worked with, and she is phenomenal. You must send her back. And i hope we will do everything we can to see that happens. So running for president is a decision that one makes after a lot of thought, prayer, and consideration. I spent the time thinking about it. What i concluded is one important thing, and i want to share with you tonight. I believe with all of my heart we are on the verge of another American Century. I believe americas greatest days are around the corner. That is the reason that compelled me to run. If we do certain things, our children will be the most prosperous that have ever lived. That is important. It is important to remember where we are. About 200 years ago, the turn of the century, america was still largely an undeveloped country. The rest of the world was industrializing. America was still trying to find its bearings. A generation of america leadership decided in that transition they would embrace, they were going to embrace the industrial revolution. It was disrupted. It moved millions of peoples from rural areas and replacing jobs with the new ones and out of that emerged the greatest nation in world history. By the turn of the 20th century, america was the largest industrial nation in the world. American had the most robust economy man had ever known. I want you to think about had they never made a decision, what if that generation had not embraced the opportunities of that time and confronted the challenges . What would the 20th century have looked like . How would world war ii have ended . Not well. The cold war . Not well. I wonder what would my life had been like. That would not have been a place like america for my parents to go to. I told the story many times because to me it reminds me every single day of how unique this nation is. Throughout all of human history, almost everyone who has lived has lived in a society that told you, you can only go as far as your parents went before you. Whatever your family did, that is what is left. Here, that has not been the case. My parents understood. My father lost his mother when he was 9 years old, and he worked for the next 70 years of his life. My mother was one of seven girls raised in rural cuba by a poor family, with the disabled father. They had dreams when they were young, but they could not do them, because they found themselves in a society that told them that they could not do those things. I want you to imagine what that must have felt like, to live in a society that tells you no matter how much you try, there are things you cannot do because of who you are and where you come from. In 1956, they came here. My parents never made it big here. They were never rich, famous but they were successful because just a few decades removed from poverty, they owned a home, had jobs, retired with security. That is our story. It defines us as a nation and as a people. Its what makes us exceptional and different from the rest of the world. It is our identity. Today it is in doubt. Today there are millions of americans who are started to believe we are no longer that country. You either know them or you are them. They are living paycheck to paycheck. Now the jobs do not go far enough. They literally live one unexpected expense away from disaster. The young people who did everything we asked, and now they cannot find a job. The person trying to start a business out of their home, it is in violation of zoning code but it is a good business. They are struggling because of government regulations are benefiting big companies. As a result, our identity as a nation is in doubt. Why is this happening . The answer is because we have too many leaders trapped in the past, people who think it is the 20th century, people who think yesterdays ideas will propel us to tomorrow. They never have and they never will. America is a nation out of its history but it has always been about its future. Our future has the opportunity to be better than our history. To do so, we must confront challenges and embrace opportunities of our time. We must do what that generation of americans did at the dawn of the the industrial age. It is straightforward. We need to understand and accept that we are engaged in a global competition for investment innovation, and talent. Government policies hold us back. We have a tax cut that makes america one of the most expensive places to invest and innovate. We have regulations that are crushing innovation and Holding People back. We have obamacare, which actually discourages is is is hiring more people. We have Energy Policies keeping us from fully utilizing energy resources. If we fix these things with a progrowth tax policy, if we limit the size of regulation, if we replace obamacare with the plan that allows every american to buy the Health Insurance they want, if we utilize energy resources, then the American People will do it they have always done. They will create millions of better paying jobs, 21st century jobs. That is not enough. The second reality of this new century is that the better paying jobs of today require more skills and more education that before. We have a Higher Education system doing a phenomenal job of preparing people to compete in the 20th century, but not in the 21st. Why do we graduate people from high school not ready to go to work . Why have we stigmatized industrial careers . These are good paying jobs. We can teach people to do this while they are young. We need flexibility in Higher Education, so people who can work fulltime can also acquire the skills they need to improve their life, so that a receptionist can become a paralegal. So that a health aide can become a dental hygienist. Today, people cannot. If you have to work fulltime to raise a family, you cant sit in a classroom. We need to provide flexible programs that allow people to learn at their own pace. We have to stop graduate he people from college with degrees that do not lead to jobs. We cannot afford to do this anymore. People are borrowing thousands of dollars in loans for degrees that do not lead to jobs. I propose a straightforward idea. Before you take out a loan, your school has to tell you how much you can expect to make when you graduate from that school with that degree, so you can decide whether that basket weaving degree you are seeking i used to cite some major greek philosophy just to get people offended greek philosophy is good, by the way so that people stop borrowing money for degrees that do not lead to jobs. We have to accept that we live in a global age. We have 4 to 5 of the global population. We need there to be millions of people on the planet that can afford to buy what we sell and make. You cannot have global prosperity without american leadership, because you cannot have stability without american leadership. The United Nations cannot do it, god forbid china wont do it, russia cannot do it. There is only one nation in the world capable of rallying the freedomloving people in the world to confront evil. Look around the world today. It is chaos in every region of the planet, from asia, where china is literally building islands to stake out illegitimate claims in the south china sea, to latin america, and in europe where Vladimir Putin is trying to rewrite the cold war, to the middle east, with the spread of radical jihadist groups and iran moving ahead in its hegemonic intentions. America cannot solve all these problems on its own. None of these problems can be solved without america. We have a president that has eviscerated military capability. He believes we are the cause of these problems, not the solution of these problems. These are challenges and opportunities. If we can have a vibrant economy, if we can equip people with the skills they need, if we can reengage america and its global leadership, the 21st century will also be an American Century. I believe that all of my heart. These things will not happen on its own. It reminds us that the election of 2016 will not be a choice about what laws are going to pass, whether it is going to be republican or democrat. 2016 as a referendum on our identity. What kind of country do we want to be . To we want to remain special or be prepared to become like everybody else . Tonight, my wife and children are in orlando. I wish i was there. Although i am happy to be here with you. [laughter] i make that point because when you make the decision to run for president , you realize you will be away from home. There are days you are not be there. There are volleball tournaments that you will miss. When i made the decision to run i realized this election is about them as much as anybody else. My childrens generation is the most important generation in history. They will either be the freest or most prosperous americans, or the first to inherit a diminished country. It reminds me of all my parents did for me, and it should remind you that all your parents did for you. The americans here before us did what had to be done. They faced the challenges, they embraced opportunities, and we inherited the greatest nation in all of human history. They did so as a nation and as people. My father worked events like this for decades into his 70s. He stood behind behind the bar. On nights he did not want to work, he said behind that bar. Because the purpose of their life was to give us the chances they never had, to open doors for us that were not open to them, that all the dreams they once had would come true for me and my siblings. Thats not just my story, it is our story. This is who we are. This is who we must still be. If you want to know whether america will remain special, it will not be based on the size of our economy or military. It will be based on whether or not the people doing this now can still do it, the people who will clean your rooms tomorrow morning and this hotel, the people who are using free wifi at a starbucks to operate their new business the student that will take two buses in the morning to attend a Better School across town, the single mother who has made the purpose of her life to ensure that her children have the opportunities she never did. If their dreams come true, then the 21st century will be the greatest era in our nations history. If they do not come true, we will always be known as the generation that allowed america to diminish and decline. This is what this election is about. This is why we are engaged in public service. This is not a sport. This is about the future of america and our very identity. I believe the 21st century will also be an American Century. There is not a nation on this earth i would trade places with. There is no other country i would rather be. The 21st century can be an American Century if we want it to be. It is up to us to be the party of the future, to show those who are trying to improve lives that we are the party with a plan to get us there. If we do these things, we will be able to leave for our children what americans always leave for their children, the single greatest nation in the history of all mankind. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We will take some questions you know the routine. We will bring the microphone over. Thank you, senator. I have asked this before. I want to know who you get along with on the democratic side. Because, if you are going to be president , you have to work with everyone. Please tell me. Senator rubio i think i get along with everyone, even those who call me a loser like some of you got it, go read the papers. Many of the ideas i have found bipartisanship on. Chris coons is someone from connecticut i have worked with. Delaware. I forget. Someone i have worked with on many ideas i have talked about. Ron wyden. I think there are people we can work with some ideas. Theres a fundamental difference between our parties. The Democratic Party is under the control of a radical leftwing view. I think you see evidence of that in their fiscal policy. They are also in control of a leftwing view reflected in foreign policy. The idea that we are creating problems for ourselves, as opposed to the reality that in the absence of american leadership, at least in a vacuum, which leads to chaos. We will have to work with people who we disagree with on certain issues. I hope we can move forward because at the end of the day, america will decline for all of us, republicans and democrats alike. We are all in this together. We are inextricably linked in that regard. There are stark fundamental differences between our parties. Senator, great to see you. Ive been asking candidates about common core. Common core is an issue important to me. I want to know your stance on common core. What would you do . Senator rubio its going to be used by the department of education, through standards to force themselves on state policy. You will not get federal money. I do not think that is the right approach. I believe in curriculum reform. I am a local businessman in New Hampshire. [indiscernible] my concern is how much is the nlrb regulation on businesses. The last regulation and came into effect yesterday, the ambush law, you know . The ambush election law. And also the one with trying to make joint employers with franchisees. Im concerned that what they are doing what changed the face of business in this country. I would like to know, as president , how would you get the group under control . What would you do with new regulations . Senator rubio at the end of the day, all agencies are under the domain of the executive branch. President obama supports those policies, and thats why they are happening. President ial leadership can have a big role in how these play. An increasing amount of power and the federal government is held in the hands of unelected unaccountable bureaucrats. One of th ereasons of this is because the vast growth of regulation. Members of congress often think that we are lawmakers, but most laws being passed in washington are nothing but authorizations for regulators to write more rules. There are different ways to bring regulations under control. The one i proposed is called the regulatory budget. What it would say is that no matter what you do, we will set a limit on how much regulations can cost the economy. Agencies would have to get under that number every year by reducing regulation. It will force them to undertake a cost benefit analysis, and that is something that is not happening right now. Theyll have to get rid of an old regulation if they want to put a new one in place. Most of all, it would massively regulate the regulatory state. It would bring them under the regulatory impediment on the growth of our economy. Beyond that, i would argue that it is not simply an annoyance, it is uncompetitive. Companies and investors and people that trying to create jobs look at these things at the conditions us doing business in the nation. It is not attractive to have a place where you have a National Labor Relations Board that is opposing upon a particularly Small Business like a franchise owner, which is not a mcdonalds, it is on by an individual that happens to on that store, requirements that they have to make that make them uncompetitive in respect to the rest of the world. So its just one more example of how the regulatory state is making america uncompetitive in an era of global competition. Hi, senator. You spoke a lot about the future in your speech. I think entitlements are going to be a huge part of that. I was wondering if you could speak about entitlement reform or how you plan to keep america prosperous in terms of the budget. Senator rubio during my senate campaign, i have campaigned on the issue of entitlement reform. Im in a state where there are a lot of people on Social Security. That includes my mother. I would never do anything to harm my mother. I recognize two truths. The single leading cause of debt is the fact that we have entitlement programs that are structured that are not sustainable. The only solution if we want to reform programs that doesnt impact people like my mother, it will require my generation and your generation to accept that our Social Security and medicare is still going to be the best thing in the world, but it is going to look different. We propose specific ideas of how to make that come about. We did so when i ran for senate in florida. When i did, i talked about when i did, i talked about we need to allow the retirement age to go up, that many pundits predicted it was the end of my campaign. It wasnt true. The math is unmistakable. When Social Security was founded, we had 15 workers for every retiree. Today, we have three for every retiree, and soon it will be two for every retiree. The program is unsustainable. We want to save those programs. Anybody who says they want to leave programs the way are is in favor of bankrupting those programs. We need to confront that issue. The sooner we confront it, the less disruptive these changes will be. When my grandparents moved here from quebec, they could only speak french. When my father and his siblings went to school, they had no choice but to learn english. They didnt have any special teachers that went to classrooms and as they learned, they were forced to learn english. When my daughter applied for a teaching job in florida, she was told she was not qualified because she did not have a certificate in english as a second language. She said, mom, isnt english the language in this country . I think there is a real problem because we are trying to we spend extra money making sure that every child is comfortable in their native language before they are taught english. I want to know if something can be done about it. I do not think people are coming here and learning english. You walk into a lowes store and and the signs are in english and spanish. Almost any place you make a phone, you get one init seems like this country needs to do something about this. We are an English Speaking country, but yet the people here are not forced to learn english. Sen. Marco rubio here is the bottom line, if you do not speaking was, you will not prosper economically in this country. While it is not legally the official language, it is. Anyone who does not learn english will have limited horizons economically in this country. I do not the circumstances that your daughter faced when she was being hired, but the truth is anyone who integrate immigrates here and does not learn english, the less they will be able to contribute and the less they will prosper economically. [indiscernible] [applause] sen. Marco rubio i think English Speakers of other languages in florida i dont know what it needs in other countries, but they come to the United States and speak creole of haiti. Obviously, because they are learning english, they are in separate classes from the mainstream students until they are proficient any list. They are streamlined. You have to speaking was to graduate high school. You cannot graduate of you do not speak english or past the exam. Many of the esl classes are designed for people whose first language is not english but within three years are supposed to be mainstreamed into regular classes like everyone else. Like a set, im not familiar with the exact district that she applied to or the exact job, but that is what is supposed to happen. Senator rubio, i think you have been very clear about this, and i totally affirm your position that the number one position of the cheek chief executive is of national security. Estimates say that iran will have a bomb within months, no matter what happens. We obviously have this you know what i am talking about the silliness in washington as far as what the president is doing. This is going to destabilize the entire international scene. I think most americans have no clue that this is coming as quickly as it is coming and what kind of impact it will have. I would love to hear your views on, if you were in the white house, how would you deal with this . We have a president who basically well, they will get it what will we do . I think you have a different perspective on it. Sen. Marco rubio let me describe the problem more indepth and say what we need to do. First of all, the risk of iran is not limited to the Nuclear Weapon. This is not even being discussed in the negotiations with iran. First of all, iran is a premier sponsor of terrorism on the planet. They have multiple groups around the world that they sponsor to carry out terrorism acts. These terrorism the way that normal nations use diplomacy. That is not even being discussed. That is going on unabated. Second, a Nuclear Capability is not just limited to a bomb. You need a delivery system. Iran is developing longrange rockets that some point will be capable of reaching the east coast of the United States. Those are not part of the talks. Of weapons design, they can buy, if they have not bought it already. It takes the ability to process uranium, and even then, they retain the infrastructure to enrich and reprocess. What we are trusting them is if we want to inspect then, they will let us. We have seen this movie before, it is called iraq. You go back to 90 days later and they do clean it up. We have seen this movie before it is called north korea. They are willing to put on a charade in the short term because they want sanctions lifted because they want more access to money. In the longterm, they will want a weapon because it furthers their ultimate mission to be a regional hegemonic power. They want to be the single most powerful country in that region of the world. They are already acting on that ambition. Today, you see iranian influence in syria, increasingly in iraq, and yemen. This is the truth about what their ambitions are all about. They Nuclear Weapon is just a part of it, the most day just part of it. Our president should have never entered into negotiations. [applause] the International Sanctions and combination with u. S. Unilateral sanctions have a devastating impact on iran. The choice to them was clear. They can have Nuclear Ambitions or an economy, not both. It was straining the regime and that is why they decided to come to the table. They knew when they sat down at the table that our president when the deal worse than they did. John kerry one of the deal worse than they did. Now have been able to do is basically disrupt the entire international received. China and russia are all in. Russia has already sold them weapon. Now, we are only left with the opportunity to impose unilateral fictions. We may have to decide at some point what it is worth. A military strike against iran or a Nuclear Armed iran. I would say this. Ive not cheerleading for war. I do not want there to be the need to use force but a nuclear iran is unacceptable for the region and for the world. [applause] [indiscernible] thank you for coming this evening. Im really adjusted what you have to say. I wanted your viewpoint speaking about security. There are terrorists coming across our borders every day, as well as lots of other people who want opportunity and to work in america. But, there is a lot of terrorism too. What is your viewpoint about closing our borders . Sen. Marco rubio first we have to define what our borders are. They are also are airports and seaports. In fact, a large percent of immigrants enter our country legally and overstayed their visa. As a matter of national security, what we need to do needs to be done early in the term of the next president which is how we enforce immigration laws. That involves border security, but also an everify system that is Cost Effective that employees can use to verify that they are hiring legally, and it involves an exit system. Right now, we are like a hotel that checks event but never checks you out. [laughter] we have no idea if you overstay a visa. Let me add, in the realm of terrorism, one other point. We used to be concerned, and we still should be about someone from abroad coming to america and carrying out a terrorist attack. That threat is still there. Then we were concerned about someone in our country going abroad and becoming radicalized and coming back. That threat is still there. Now we face the threat of someone who is in this country has never left this country, and yet is radicalized online and as a result is inspired to carry out a terrorist act. All three of these cases exist and are real. You listen to all the hyperbole out there about their listing to your phone calls and all this other thing. The first question people want to know is this is not a game. I sit on the intelligence committee, and have no reason to exaggerate to you. The risks this country faces today are greater and increase exponentially. Our enemies find ways to innovate our intelligence, and we will pay a terrible price. There are thousands of people around this world, and even as i speak to you now, there are plotting to. The spread of jihad has spread to africa, multiple nations in the middle east, and around the world. We need to deal with this because you cannot have prosperity if it is constantly under the risk of a terrorist attack. [applause] thank you very much. Thank you for having me. We have more road to the white house 2050 coverage coming up this afternoon. Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, will visit with employees of a small familyowned business in keene New Hampshire. Live coverage starts at 1 45 eastern. On this monday afternoon house and senate in later this afternoon. House in for a brief pro forma session. The center will also gavel in 2 00. Earlier today, we spoke with a capitol Hill Reporter for a look ahead at this week in the capital. Host lets begin with what is happening on the floor in the house and senate. Guest sure. The senate particularly this week is really coming in and very much the same position that they were last week. You still have the Human Trafficking bill holding them up. They still need to confirm Loretto Lynch at some point. They are still looking at the iran nuclear deal. Mitch mcconnell said they think theyre making Good Progress on the Human Trafficking bill, and once i get stuck, that will be the beginning of a series of dominoes, it will allow lynch to get done, the iran deal get done. Host the house is looking at some security legislation that they will vote on. Off the floor, 27 negotiators are meeting today to try and iron out differences of the budget. What are they looking at . How long is this process likely to take . Guest that is a good question. At this point, they have already missed the april 15 deadline. The budget document, as you know, is nonbinding, it is more of a series of recommendations and a chance for chambers to layout what parties think the country should be doing. I think because of that, they do have a little bit more time. There is not a serious deadline anymore. That said, the house budget document at the Senate Budget document are not that different this point. I think one of the big argument we are seeing now is what they will end up doing with reconciliation. The senate just decided to use that for Affordable Care act where the house left that much more open ended, gave committees a lot of jurisdiction. We will see who prevails in the argument. Host republicans in the senate want to use the budget to deal with obamacare, the reconciliation process on that to try to repeal it, and republicans in the house there are different camps . Guest exactly. The house is try to repeal obamacare dozens of times. This feeling we have heard from folks in the house is that we have tried this, the president is still in office, he will just veto that legislation. Maybe we should try to use this s reconciliation process as something that sends a stronger message that what we have already tried over and over again. There has been some talk about using it for tax reform, a variety of other ideas. For the Senate Republicans who pushed this in the first place there feeling is that this is the number one priority. Yes, it will probably be vetoed but lets send the strongest message possible and try to repeal obamacare. Host on the Iranian Nuclear deal, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee overwhelmingly approving legislation that would allow congress to review any deal. You said the senate needs to deal with the trafficking bill before it can move on to these other bills, but where does it stand this iran Nuclear Legislation in the senate . The full senate, are they on board . Guest it looks that way. Senator chuck schumer, who will be taking over for harry reid in 2016, he is a supporter of the bill, he is a cosponsor. A number of other democrats are supportive of this. This was like something that will pass very easily this week. That, the question becomes, can Congress Pass any legislation either approving or disapproving of the bill . This bill just gives them the opportunity to do that. It would give them 30 days to make a decision about how they feel about this deal once it is finalized. If they do nothing which many senators joe, that is what we are best at, then that will be deemed approved by congress regardless. Host also in the papers are stories about trade. Where does the vote on fasttrack stand . Guest the faster quote is really fascinating. This is another situation where you have democrats the vast majority of them on one side of the issue, and that the white house and democrats like ron wyden who helped write this bill on the other side. It was Just Announced at the end of last week. I think a lot of people looking over and getting a feel for it. It does seem like there is a lot of democratic opposition to this bill. It will be interesting to see if republicans coddle together a coalition big enough to send this to president obamas desk where he seems really adjusting in accepting it. Host will it get past . Guest the senate has a big Cyber Security week plan. That may have to wait until next week tok. Them again, very quickly, the house is in at 2 00 for a brief house go for the session. The center is also in on cspan 2. The house and senate will gather to compromise on a budget. House passed its budget last month. House committees will take part in that today. Live coverage is underway at 3 00 today. Challenging sec rules, five organizations have filed lawsuits against the fcc. Tonight on the communicators we will speak to the ceo of one of the organizations, Walter Mccormick of telecom. Also, a supporter of the rules christopher lewis. What we are challenging is the reclassification of Internet Access from being an Information Service to a Telecommunication Service regulated as a common carrier, pursuant to railroad law. , carrier was first of to railroads, then airlines. It was repealed some 30 years ago. It slowed innovation, and really chilled investment. We both agree that the neutrality protections are important. That is an important thing to start with. We do disagree with the lawsuit. We have been very supportive of the rules that the fcc and acted enacted, and now have become a force of law. We think that after a decade of working toward a way to have that neutrality rules that can hold up in court that this is the strongest set of Net Neutrality protections we have seen in the three different tim attempts to make sure the internet remains open. Tonight at 8 00 eastern on the communicators on cspan 2. Now, a Panel Discussion on the lease and race from the rest of colorado for them on Global Affairs in boulder. Participants discuss is if the United States is becoming a police state. We will show you as much of this as we can because Hillary Clinton is expected to begin her remarks in keene, New Hampshire scheduled for 1 45 eastern. Welcome everyone to panel number 3117, and title, hands of dont shoot. Dont you wonder about the people who volunteered to put these titles together . Someone has been saying, this will get them going and add a little bit of ambiguity. I can handle this panel. Heres the drill. You know how it goes. I will introduce myself. I work in the executive team building. I love being a part of this. Phones off. You know that. Get them off vibrate too. Ok. I will open it up to the panel. I was asking to them to give us a 10 minute opening. Afterward, i will let them have questions among themselves. Then, we go to the microphones. First, i might have a question or two. I could be sitting here coming up with a great question i dont want to waste it. Then, the questions are for you. You come to the microphones, and i urge all of you introverts dont be afraid. I know it is very awful to speak publicly, but when you do it you often have Great Questions as well as the extroverts. A word about the questions. First of all, i will practice ages termination. Remember, this is about students. We will always ask students to ask questions first. Second of all, we are in boulder. I assume we have Rocket Scientist here and intellectuals. And the range between. I appreciate that and i assume you have a great deal of experience and wisdom behind you. This is about questions. Im going to ask you to be tight with your questions, as clear as you can, and we will get as many answers as we can if you abide by that. Lets begin. On my right we have and who will be the first speaker laeonard pitts, a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. Leonard launch this week with some insightful remarks. Secondly we will hear from robert kaufman, a political scientist and scholar who has authored books and help authored books. He is an adjunct professor at the Heritage Foundation and now teaches at Pepperdine School of public policy. Richard aregood also has pulled surprise when he experienced as an editor in philadelphia and is now using his experience and wisdom on the faculties of two colleges. Im summarizing in my own words. Clara jeffery, to my far left is an awardwinning journalist from mother jones. If you have not seen mother jones online, you should, it is interesting. Lets begin. Leonard, i will ask you to kick off today because of something few set in your opening remarks which i found in the newspaper and thought where fascinating. Would you agree with the panel titled that we have a police state . Leonard thank you very much for setting me up so nicely. I appreciate it. I was sitting here making my notes and one of the first notes i have says, requiem . I dont want to does anyone who came up with titles. Im not great at titling things and it is a difficult job, but anyone who thinks the art in a requiem, i. E. A commemoration of the dead does not understand the police state. The pleased he is alive and well in the usa. When i stood on the stage a couple of days ago, i asked a question that i would like to repeat what do you see when you see me . Speaking as an africanamerican man. I think i would like to repurpose that question into talking about a few recent episodes, some of which he may be familiar with, some of which you may not. I wonder what the Police Officer in South Carolina, Michael Slager, a white Police Officer saw when he encountered 50yearold africanamerican man, walter scott. You may have seen this video you may not have. He shot him eight times in the back as he was running away. You have to wonder what he saw in the stand that made him feel this man was deserving of that treatment. What he saw in this man that made him feel, very calmly, judging his body language, pub eight shots into him and then walk calmly towards the body and handcuffed him. I suppose my segment on this our best summed up by a tweet that iran across last night from a comedian, she said, i have felt more guilty eating cookies than this officer seem to feel after shooting this man eight times in the back vehicle what did this officer seat when he saw walter scott . What danger did he see . What fear . What threat was there to the 50yearold man he thought he deserved that kind of treatment . What did sean gruber seat when he shot lavar jones . You are probably not familiar with this case, but i would suggest you look it up. The video is in some ways as appalling, maybe more appalling than a lot of what we have seen. Sean gruber. Lavar jones. Thats the video, also in South Carolina where a state trooper pulls up on an africanamerican man and we see him in the video the africanamerican man is waiting outside of his car it is a traffic stop. The trooper tells the man, i want to see her license. The man goes into his car to get the license, the trooper panics and says, get out of your car. The man complies, and the trooper shoots him. If you have not seen this video you really should. He shoots him. The officer, when asked why he had done this, his explanation to his superior was, he came toward me and he would not stop when i gave him a command to stop. I believe that he believes that. Which is the sad thing. I wrote a column about this. The first thing that happens when things of this nature transpire is that we want to look to the character of the officer who shot and say we want to look for the klan robe in his closet, some evidence of this role racism, what i called a coup by races on monday. I do not think he is a bad guy. I think because of how we have become very comfortable seeing african American People specifically africanamerican men, as a threat first and foremost that when this man had come out of his car, as ordered by the Police Officer, the Police Officer actually perceived a threat. Think about it. Why would you tell a lie that can be so easily disproved by your own dash cam video . This is actually what he saw. What did he see when he saw lavar jones coming out of the car . He saw a threat. Lavar jones survived the shooting. He had a bullet in his head. He survived the shooting, that they handcuffed this man to the gurney in the hospital for seven hours before the Police Officer conceded with the video and said that sean gruber was the man involved. Finally, when you may have seen but what did Police Officers see in minnesota when they saw a man with dreadlocks waiting on a biench on the skyway waiting for his son to get off of school. They are basically sidewalks in the sky. He is waiting there, and the Police Officer comes and says, who are you and what do you want . This is america, what have i done was chriss response. Eventually they take him to the ground. There is video of this also. They take him to the ground and taser him. This guy has no criminal intent. He is a guy that waiting for his children. What did they see when they saw the father waiting for his children to get out of school . Ive mentioned those three incidents because there is video that attaches to them. We can all go and with a few keystrokes look and see for ourselves what happened. You have to ask yourself, what about the myriad cases where there is no video . What about the myriad things that happen when there is no electronic eye recording what happened . Even with video, i have found in my experience, the video is no panacea. We, as communal witnesses, have this amazing ability to not see what we do know what to see. When i say that, i think of the rodney king case where the beating was so bad, and so far beyond procedure, the even that chief of police in los angeles and take it from me as A Los Angeles native dale gates is not a liberal. Dalerrel gates quote on seeing the video was, that may be sick. Still, there are people who are unable to see what happened on the video for what it was, including a jury his quote was when i saw that the final question then is, i have asked what lisi when they see africanamerican men. The question obviously leads to is what you africanamerican see when they see the lease . You and i when we look at police are more likely to see someone who is there to protect and to serve in guard you in your neighborhood. I dont have that luxury. I have to take it on a casebycase basis. I think i would be a fool if i reported every Police Officer that i saw that there was the automatic assumption that he or she was there to help me and is going to be in the a way that he or she would see you. That leaves you with the question of, what do africanamerican see when they see police . And what should we see when we see police based on all these experiences . Thank you. [applause] thank you for a very thoughtprovoking opening. Robert, lets turn to you. Do you share some of the perspectives of leonard . Probably not the experiences. Robert no, i dont share his conclusions, although in particular the south can the South Carolina case, that is a case of egregious Police Misconduct, probably murder. And there is no justification for that. I would english that case which is a clear apple of clear example of unacceptable homicidal Police Behavior if you have watched the video. Probably most of you have. This was a man stopped for a traffic light. His tail light was out. He was obviously fleeting. Fleeing. He did not appear to be menacing and the officer shot him in the back eight times as he fled. This was obviously a case of the officer gunning down, probably murdering someone using disproportionate violence. I do not disagree with my eloquent speaker that this happens. Do we live in a police state . Is this a them problem . That is where we do disagree. Is this a systemic problem . That is a we do disagree. My field is International Policy and i think beth bowman put me on this panel for amusement to see how i would do. [laughter] compared to what a real police state is, nazi germany, the soviet union tamron tehran, north korea, the united date in its worst days is not a police date. Secondly we are not perfect and no political entity is. If you compare the state of Law Enforcement, the behavior of Law Enforcement toward all americans, including africanamericans, that is not to say we do not have a significant way to go if you compare the standards of today compared to 40 years ago, we have made significant improvement, if not perfect improvement in the way we deal with everybody. Thirdly, my first cousin is a policeman in cambridge massachusetts. He was policeman of the year in 2012 and was part of the team that apprehended the tsarnaev brother who perpetrated the atrocity during the boston marathon, and my daughter is a student in my hometown of boston at boston university. The preponderance of policeman and in the preponderance of cities are decent, honorable people who enforce the law and follow it and are not rogues. I also disagree that this is a problem that is, a, getting worse, b, systemic and endemic, and c i think it is very important in this area to make reasonable distinctions. By and large, i think there is a problem stop and i agree with my this is a problem. And i agree with my first speaker, even as i disagree with him on his general point, that in a date like ours, authority should always be under scrutiny to justify the use of force and state intervention in general. Nevertheless, where i disagree with my eloquent first eager first weekspeaker is that this is systemic and not something that has improved over time. It has. And i also think in treating this problem we have done a disservice to the police and to the country by lumping things together. In response to my first speaker what should an africanamerican see when he or she sees a policeman, i think he or she should see an institution for the most part that have significantly has significantly improved. I think he or she should also the evidence that benefits should also see evidence that it is an institution that benefits africanamericans for the most part. The greatest beneficiary of well ordered liberty and law and order by due process in a police state are those africanamerican to want to send their children to school, who want to run businesses, who want to be safe. Im not saying there are not wrote policeman. Literally many profession that is true. That is true of the american military. What i am saying is that what critics see as a systemic problem i see as a problem more individual and specific, and more of an exception to the rule of how most people in Law Enforcement behave in most places most of the time. Thank you. [applause] moderator thank you, robert. And or comments about leonard. Now i would like to turn it over to richard allgood. Would you comment on whether you think we have a police state or anything that robert or leonard said . Richard first, let me say that not drug not all drug addled hippies were manson. That does not mean that sharon tate wasnt mistreated. I agree that the large majority of police are doing their jobs but that rotten appleman ivory rotten apple minority is big enough to be of concern. And that changes in attitudes are evident. I worked as a reporter in philadelphia for 30 years and that makes me the expert on that cops. Philadelphia is the capital of bad copdom. Nationwide, i saw the lord decode accounts little towns in north dakota buying tanks. If you really think that guilty, north dakota is going to have a requirement to have a swat team and policeman armed with automatic weapons and wearing clublike helmets buglike helmets and that sort of thing, then i think you may be as crazy as the people who order the tanks in the first place. This is purely anecdotal on my part, but i detected a different attitude. Im a good citizen. If you will notice, i have an old man. I was stopped by a policeman in grand forks, north dakota, a lovely little town. He then proceeded to spend a half an hour with backup he had backup the rating me about god knows what and telling me that he had a perfect right to have me retest for my drivers license because i was so old. I agree with you and that he had the right to demand that i detested and to please do it and not yelling at me. He then at the end issued all of one of those catchall ordinances that every townhouse, aggravated bovary that every town has aggravated mopery or Something Like that. And he let me go. I do not have that much justification, not as much as black american cap, but i am a little wary now. And i think we got reason to be wary. One of the reasons is that if a policeman in this culture i am a union guy. I believe that Police Unions are much more powerful than any union i have ever been a part of. Calvin coolidge in 1919 made his bones when the Boston Police went on strike. He and the mayor i believe the technical term is, they went that shift. And what they essentially did they went bat shit. And what they essentially did the striking cops and so on, in every city there was arbitration. Cops cannot strike. What they can do is win every argument in arbitration. The arbitrators are hired by both sides, the police union and the city if the city is trying to hire a cop. It is really hard to get fired. In the arbitration of policeman accused of serious crimes and fired by the Police Department in philadelphia, 90 of them got their jobs back through arbitration. Arbitrators split the difference. Arbitrators are at the mercy of the police union. Like the great depression, this is one of our legacies from calvin coolidge. He fixed so many things in our lives. Friends of mine did a Pulitzer Prizewinning series called tainted justice, which has become a book. I recommend the book to all of you. Shoe leather reporting. They went through hispanic north philadelphia where of uses narcotics cops had rated bodegas raided bodegas and essentially robbed them because they had plastic bags in their stock. Plastic bags, you might realize, tend hold drugs. They can also hold drug leftovers you realize. There was film of a police climbing up on a counter to cut the cord to the surveillance camera so he could robbed the cash register. Fortunately for justice generally, he cut the wrong court. Not being a very bright concealer of evidence. They were accused credibly by women who were molested by one of them. The story ran for weeks. It was done with the cooperation of the commissioner of police, who i think is a good guy. One of the things you have to understand is, nobody who is at the top of an organization has absolute control over it. That is definitely true of the philadelphia Police Department. There are cases of horrifying violence. There are cases of dishonesty. I mean, do you want a shoplifter to be a policeman . Do you want an armed robber to be a policeman . There is a difference between teen convicted of a felony and being fired. I mean, all of us working in actual jobs where you can be fired without committing a felony, it almost goes without saying. But in most areas, if you do something horrible under color of law in this country, as you say to an arbitrator, or even a jury, i was in fear for my life those are magic words. That is your get out of jail card. I was in fear for my life. Either we get rid of magic words excusing appalling behavior, or rehire braver police we hire braver policeman. It is more dangerous to be a farmer. The horrible thing about being a policeman is that it is generally so boring. I was a Police Reporter in philadelphia the first two years of my career, and i left Police Reporting because the groupthink was beginning to hurt my head. I was starting to think like a policeman, and i didnt like that. Because i did not want to be a policeman. I wanted to be a newspaper reporter. In a lot of instant, you get an attitude a lot of instances you get an attitude. There is an attitudinal within the department. That is not easy to fix. Eric hires dedication that requires dedication over years. I have seen Six Police Commissioners trying to fix the philadelphia Police Department. I dont think any of them have succeeded yet. I remember an incident when i was a young reporter at city hall. I saw a purse snatching take place in front of city hall. Being 23 years old and stupid, i tackled the do wear and call the policeman over. The policeman, a fine philadelphia person, started wailing on the crack darted wailing on a man with his night stick. I, being an innocent 23yearold , said, do you really have to do that . He responded, do you want some . The attitude that people especially black people, are the enemy is the key to all of this. Officer friendly shows the children around the station house and let you know how he protect you. These guys that we are worried about, admittedly a minority, so what . Is all policeman were like that we would not even be able to have this little gathering. They are not all like that. But enough of them are like that to make you really, desperately concerned about where this country is going, because it is going toward nobody is saying it is a police state. But it is moving inexorably in that direction. And if you dont worry about that, good for you, because you are incapable of worrying about anything and you are probably living a very happy life. Thank you very much. [applause] moderator clara, would you like to add your perspective of whether or not you see this as a police state or moving toward one . Clara i would like to touch on something that robert mentioned earlier. Theres a real russian underlying all of this, which is whether we see what is there is a real question underlying all this, which is when we see what is going on as systemic or individual problems. It seems liberals see them as systemic and conservatives see them as more individual. When we are dealing with these incidents of Police Violence and the militarization and the clarification of our Police Forces, i think there is something much broader going on. Beneath all of the incidence of the last two years be it trayvon martin, Michael Brown or most recently, walter scott it is a question that does not just apply to the police. And that is, what kind of biases are we all Walking Around with . Not kkk member, not confederate flagwaving, but this implicit bias that makes us a little more apprehensive around people who are unlike ourselves. When you are a Police Officer, and lets face it, sometimes it is a boring job. But my brother is a cop and he can be a frightening and terrifying and really depressing job. Theyre walking too bad and violent situations mostly observing violence done by people to other people, too little kids, picking up after car accident. Its a hard job. And they, like the rest of us, have these implicit isis that they these implicit biases that they walk around with. Scientists are and to understand these biases and its starting to offer us a bit of hope. Basically, they think that some of the instinct essentially that we had prehistoric instinct, really, to figure out what is dangerous, what is not, what is different than i am, what might cause me problems something useful when you are running around in a van or the width and trying or in the woods and trying to figure out lines are bad lions are bad. There are a couple of test and you can all take them and i encourage you to do so. It will likely be depressing to you, but its worth doing. There is one called the bias test and there is one called the weapons identification test. In both of these tests, you are asked to quickly categorize between white and black faces even as you categorize between terms that are good or bad. And essentially, what you will tend to find, and this is true certainly for white people, but sadly also for people of color. Its more likely that you will associate good qualities with white faces. The weapons identification test is sort of the same thing. You are asked whether or not when you see somebody do they have a drill or a gun in their hand . Do you shoot or not shoot . Police officers do much better than all the civilians at deciding not to shoot someone in general, but they like us, are more likely to shoot at the black man who has a sandwich or a wallet or a power drill in his hand rather than a gun. I think, starting those tests studying those tests, all of us figuring out where our own bias might lie, and with Police Forces were those biases can become more deadly, it is the beginning of knowing how to train around it and if possible how to put Police Procedures in another way. In las vegas they had Excessive Force cases, particularly where officers were chasing a suspect through neighborhoods, through the minority neighborhoods. They basically say, youre not allowed to touch a suspect that you apprehend unless absolutely necessary. That was procedure. And there are cases of and their cases of excessive violence went way down. Can you measure and quantify what we are doing and train ourselves out of it . Interestingly, that also does not just apply to Police Forces. Similar experiments have been run where people are sort of forced to think about people other than themselves before taking different kinds of tests. Essentially, what it finds is that not all are you less open to hiring a person of color, a kind of bias as we understand it, but you are more likely to score higher interest on on tests of entrepreneurial creativity. Open your mind to different kinds of people can unlock entrepreneur real skills as well. That, i think is one sort of systemic thing we need to get on top of. It is not just the police. The police have these biases and are armed and are put in more dangerous situations, or at least what they apprehend to be dangerous situations. The second thing i would like to talk about is the actual militarization of our Police Forces. Ever since 9 11 we have seen just an enormous amount of military gear in some cases handed out, in some cases loaned out, in some cases provided at great discount to Police Forces both in new york city and in places where there is arguably a real of terrorism. But also in tiny towns. Five doing dollars worth of 5 billion worth of the quicken has been given away. And loans have been given away to buy all of these equals and gear these vehicles and gear that you see. It used to be that little towns did not have their own swat team. Only 20 of them did just a few years ago, but by 2007, 80 of towns had a full on militarized swat team. Andy swat teams are not being used in your sort of hostage rescue situations and the swat teams are not being used in your sort of hostage rescue situations. They are being used to serve warrants. And a lot of this is drug warrants, the war on drugs stuff. But some of it is just serving bench warts. Its crazy. Its like the bench warrants. Its crazy. Its like the little girl that was hurt when they went into the wrong apartment. They went in there with flash bangs and the reality crew was there and they killed the little girl. They are responding to these things that do not require this use of force. And because they have this gear that is the training they get and it does not require them to be more open to the people they are encountering. Those two things are in combination. The swatification of the police force also teaches them that everything is a threat all the time. If you are constantly arming up as for battle, you think you are in battle. It is basic psychology. I do think that those two issues , the biases that we all walk around with, and the sort of militarization of our police force have come together in a really unfortunate way. We saw that in the ferguson protest more than anywhere but it is something me to watch out for more broadly. [applause] moderator thank you. My first question to you all is do you have questions to each other you leonard to each other . Leonard actually, i do, but let me preface this. In miami gardens, there was a small store where there worked a man as of 2013 a man named earl simpson. He is never been convicted of anything more serious than the possession of marijuana, which i understand in some states is not even a crime. But he has been arrested dozens of times for trespassing at this little store, and the kicker is he works at the store. He has been pulled from behind the counter. We keep hearing from i learned panel made my learned panel mate that this is the result of rogue policeman just a few bad apples. My question is, after oscar grant, eric garner, avenue lima, chris lally, lavar jones, sean bell, after walter scott, after rodney king, and always other men i do not have time to name how many isolated incidents do we have to have before we see a pattern . [applause] that is my first question. It is a twoparter. The second question goes to this idea of decent, honorable cops. I do not have any argument with the idea that most Police Officers are honorable men and women trying to do a difficult job. As you will recall, i for that explicitly of sean rupert who shot lavar jones. But is it too much to ask that these, honorable cops stand up against those other crops cops who are making these [applause] who are doing these things as opposed to retreating behind the blue wall of silence . Moderator are you dressing that addressing that to robert . Leonard my learned colleague. Moderator robert, do you see a pattern . Robert do you have me in mind with this . Let me recover my bearings. One, it is very moving, but not always enlightening to use anecdotal data. These cases are serious, but the cases you listed do not disprove the counter argument as to whether this is a systemic problem. I will tell you the James Q Wilson handsdown the greatest criminologist the past 50 years has argued in a massive body of scholarship to the contrary. Again, i think it is perfectly legitimate and reasonable to punish people for behaving as rogue cops. Where i disagree is whether it is a systemic problem. As for a couple of other points, the socalled militarization of police, that is an assertion that is made in isolation. What you also have to know is that the police now are up against drug gangs and other threats that are vastly better armed than they are. What my colleague called the militarization some of us would consider a necessary and prudent response to the broadening and deepening of threats that Law Enforcement faces, not just in cities, but in towns and small places where threat you would have thought you would not have thought could emanate. But now there is threat of terrorism and other things. As is the glass half empty or half full argument. If you want to be anecdotal, i will. I worked in the 1970s and the 1980s in new york before giuliani and i worked at columbia after giuliani. I will tell you that before giuliani when there was in efficient insufficient Law Enforcement, life was interaction was nasty endand often ugly. They should have to answer the question of whether they are responding appropriately. Treating this as systemic it is the same problem. I will have to leave your soon to play the same role on the iranian panel. But in this case, the jury was right to exonerate him. It is important to make distinctions. Leonard i just have one quick question. The gentleman says we are relying too much on anecdotal evidence. Here is some statistical evidence. Less than about 15 of africanamerican about 15 of drug use in this country and crime in this country is africanamerican. The vast majority is white. Yet we have a system where statistics show that even when you correct for class and other variables, somehow we end up with jurisdictions where 60 and in some cases, 90 of the people doing time for drug crimes are africanamerican. If that is not a systemic problem, i dont know what is. [applause] robert it is not necessarily so. It depends on the crime. Richard it is a great song, it aint necessarily so. I love that song. There are two great columnists in this country. Im sitting next to one and the other one writes a blog for esquire magazine. Charlie pierce writes today, no video, no crime. That is all you need to know about the coldblooded slang of walter scott by officer Michael Slager in north in South Carolina. No video and he probably gets away with what he did. No video and scott is just another of the semihoodlums that are occupational hazards to our brave men and men in blue. No video and slager is doing three nights a week on hannity by next money next monday. No video and slager is a hero while scott remain dead. Moderator im going to interrupt you for just a second. That is a very important port point and i want to get back to that. I did want to follow roberts thought about the systemic and the military. Richard may i make my point of than just having the quote . Moderator ok, sure. Richard four anything bad to happen we have a new standard. For anything bad to happen, we have to have a conviction supported by video and that is not exactly a standard i want to get behind. [applause] moderator that is a good point and i want to get back to video, too. Clara. Clara the crime rate in new york city and almost major almost every major metropolitan area and even in small towns almost every category of crime has been falling since the 1980s. Police do not, in fact face more crime. Sure, there are drug cartels. But those cartels are not the individuals cooking up meth in their basement of the drug warrants are served on with the swat team. Going after cartels with a swat teams, maybe that is acceptable. All we are taking a militarized response or searching for bench warrants, for failure to appear for a custody disputes, or for failure to appear for a traffic stop. It is a word absurd the level of firepower we are bringing to situations where there is no reason to think they will encounter force of any kind. And accident happened with some accidents happen when eight guys fully locked and loaded enter a room with the perception of threat. And the data is not great, and there are a lot of constituent reasons why the fbi and Police Forces do not willingly collect and hand over the data about who shot and killed and when and how in police custody. We actually scraped what did i there is out there. And what data there is out there , and you can look this up on mother jones, is that in cases in new york from federal Law Enforcement cases and measured it is a measured against every kind of incident, blacks are not only more likely to be arrested, but more likely to be shot. And these are not just arrests for violent crimes. These are arrests sometimes for no good reason, and sometimes for petty crime. We do need more data. But to say that the data that is out there does not support what is going on is not valid. [applause] moderator richard, i want to come back to you with what you were talking about, because i think you bring up this issue of video, which could be hugely important as we go forward. Do you think that the wearing of videos now will make a big difference in the antipolice state . Richard i dont know. Videos can be confusing. I know that in the incident, the much less serious incident involving my own self that i mentioned, i filed a charge because the chief said, why dont you . So i did. And it turned out he hadnt turned his camera on. Well, thats a half an hour of him screaming. I never saw the man face, by the way. He was standing and i was still in the car. And the results of the inquiry was that he was exonerated because he had violated none of the rules of the grand forks Police Department. I dont know whether video is a cureall, because there are so many ways around it. I think we are better with it than we would be without it, but i dont think we can install video on i mean, the poor cost today, they are carrying 400 pounds of stuff. The poor cops today, they are 400 pounds of stuff. Guns and tasers and by the way, tasers were supposed to be a dunning a way to stein and now they are a torture device. Robert we agree, because richard we had to at some point. Robert and i feel badly about it, that we do agree, but we do agree on the issue of videos will stop for the on the issue of the videos. For the sake of Law Enforcement everyone is secondguessing and theres a presumption of illegitimacy. Overall, it is not a panacea. It benefits police and the public alike to have a video so that the vast preponderance of policeman can do their jobs with confidence, because in a split second world where because they act in a world where splitsecond moves can mean death. The evidence is fairly strong in the direction that putting videos on policemanen would be the most prudent response and it is something that police should want, i think, to vindicate them. And i think it would if most policeman most of the time to their jobs in a way that is proper and consistent with the american constitution. [applause] clara i would only add that i think it is grossly unfair you assume anyone on this panel has gone in with the presumption of uniform guilt against all Police Officers. [applause] moderator are there any questions each of you has for each other before i turn it over to our audience . Please, come to the microphone. We will take student questions first. If you could make them short and to the point. We will take questions until 10 20 a. M. Can we have lights up in the audience a little bit, so we can see . So we can be prejudicial. I wanted to go down from the police state to the smaller parts. The pestering of police to the after the africanamerican kennedy for the minor things. The friend of my daughters during high school who got stopped constantly, africanamerican, who got stopped constantly for driving his fathers bmw. The instances where young teenage africanamerican kids are treated differently in their pranks of knocking down of mailboxes and the things that young kids do, they tend to get a police record. And a lot of the white kids tend to go to the juvenile conference committees. It is all those Little Things that add up. And then they say that the person has a record. And because of all of those little ones that added up before. Can you comment on those . Because it seems the Little Things rather than the big things. Moderator is there someone you want to direct that question to . And i was remiss in not saying that you should ask someone to direct that answer. It doesnt matter. Robert i agree with you and one of the most compelling parts of that ferguson report was that i think the data was robust that africanamericans were disproportionately and aggressively targeted for traffic violations and other things that aggregate ly created steppingstones. Again, i think this is where we will disagree and we have a long way to go. But in my native city of boston to use as an example, this has improved significantly, but still is a problem from the 1980s. Im a Boston Celtics die. Guy. When the guy who was driving to his home in his mercedes was taken to decide by police because he was not present to be in that neighborhood. I do think that is a serious issue. I also think that coming from california that Police Departments generally are abusing their authority to raise revenue in all sorts of ways. And i do think it is a fair criticism that the Africanamerican Community has borne a significantly greater degree of that abuse than other communities. I think that is a National Concern and a legitimate concern and something that may be more systemic than the higher level that we talked about earlier. Thats a good point. [applause] leonard i think it is easy to say that things certainly have improved and that is appealing to us on an emotional level. But i would like to ask. I would like to see an illustration i would like to see statistics. I would like to see an illustration of that. In terms of the pestering, as youve said, you are right. My favorite part in the ferguson report was the guy who got arrested as giving his name as mike when his full name was michael. The fallacy is to treat ferguson as if it is somehow this mutant town that is like no other big or small town in america. And for those who have attempted to treat ferguson as an outlier, i would ask you this one russian. If fergus this one question. If ferguson is so different from other towns, what made it so different . How did it becomes so . How is it different than boulder or boston or wherever . I would be curious to know. This question is directed toward bob. Im a graduate didnt in engineering pursuing a phd. Moderator could you speak into the microphone a little bit more . My friend my question to you, bob, frank circo, or Rudy Giuliani frank cserpico, or Rudy Giuliani, who did more to make new york state . Rudy giuliani applied new procedures to the bridges and the subways. Rudy giulianis enforcement of law benefited life, liberty, and prosperity more than any single social policy in the 20th century in any major city. He is a hero for it. And it is largely due not only to do giuliani and the high quality of the Police Department there am a but also those protectors of liberty. How is that . Rudy giuliani hired Bernard Richard Rudy Giuliani hired bernard kerrick. He is a criminal. The best line ever from joe biden is, every Rudy Giuliani sentence has a subject, a verb and 9 11. [laughter] robert i disagree. Richard Rudy Giuliani, if you look at what he is saying currently, he is not. He is nuts. And weve already mentioned that crime all over the country has declined in places with her without Rudy Giuliani. I respectively disagree. Respectfully disagree. Robert and i disagree, too. Lets not forget that two of the worst Police Misconduct cases occurred under giulianis watch, abner rima, the man being anally raped by a broken broomstick, and the other, the nypd has had a lot of great officers and a lot of problems but it was hardly a begin a beacon of Rudy Giuliani administration. Moderator thank you for your answers and for your question, and im sure next year we will have Rudy Giuliani are stop here. I think i have a difference of you from mr. Kaufman on whether or not the United States can actually be said to have a police state. Im wondering if, perhaps because you work on an International Level primarily, your understanding of how that could apply to the u. S. Might not just be nuanced. In terms of we do not have to have all people subjugated under a police state, but perhaps one group of people to be experiencing something completely different than the majority of the people in the country. So when you said that, i was left wondering if mr. Pitts might have a different for you different view, that perhaps the Africanamerican Community lives in a different United States than you do, and that i do than i do. And taking that approach might make us go back and i guess i will reveal myself as a liberal here, the fact that i think this is a systemic problem. Im wondering if we are creating a selffulfilling property. This is directed to mr. Pitts. You mentioned about how many more proportionally black people are arrested for crimes that statistically they are not involved in as much. We are filling our prison system with africanamericans. We are, i believe creating [indiscernible] moderator and your question is . My question is, do you think is a selffulfilling where do you think it goes back to . Not just the attitude of people, but some of those underlying issues. Robert first of all, mr. Kaufman needs to go. As far as credentials, have a law degree from georgetown as well. I had sam dash for criminal law kim feinberg. I understand the issue. I dont agree with you, but i would also study the kgb. I understand the police state in the United States. A disagreement is not based on a misunderstanding or my not being enlightened with information but based on a different degree of sources as to where i get my information. On that road, have to on that note, i have to play the same role on the iran panel. Thank you to the audience. [applause] leonard im sorry. Briefly, what was the part of the question for me . Yes, partial police state. Yes, i think the fallacy in my learned and out of party colleaguess understanding is that hillary can have a police state is if we are having some recreation of the nazis is that if we have that the only way we can have a police it is if we have some recreation of the nazis. If i had to live anywhere, i would live here, obviously. It is really not as bad here as it is in other places, but the architecture of a police state is certainly being put into place, particularly in the Africanamerican Community. And i should say, the nonwhite community. Because if you go to arizona you are required to show your papers if you are hispanic. Upon any encounter with police to prove you have a right to be here. To me, that is chillingly reminiscent of some things we have seen from history. In terms of the africanamerican experience, if you look at ferguson, if you look at these police in these spacesuits and highpowered rifles, if you saw them eject white reporters from a mcdonalds where they were customers and arrest them for trespassing, then you have to be concerned about the prospect of police out of control and police with no oversight. It is not just a race issue at that point. It is a First Amendment issue. There are repeated stories out of ferguson of journalists being mishandled, being tear gas being arrested, having their cameras pointed toward the street so they cannot record what is going on. This is not solely a black thing. This is something that we should all be concerned about. Richard and it is spreading, because i know that it used to be is a crime was committed, you just went to Police Headquarters and they gave you the basics of it. Nowadays, you have jurisdictions in which the police will not tell you squat, except something happened. I know i have not done in academic study on it. My own credentials are that i was a Police Reporter for a while, a journalist for a long time, and i went to a state university. I do not have a lottery law degree. But i do look about me and i see a lot more. There was a gunfight in the parking lot of half in grand forks of a hospital in grand forks involving the local patrol, the university police, and the local police. So far, we have no idea what has happened and it has been a month. Moderator the next question. And again, i will remind you that these are questions. Please limit it to one or two sentences and your question. I will do my best. I graduated high school in houston, texas, in the early 1970s where the police perfected the throwdown im getting to it, please. They perfected the throwdown of the gun and they are still doing it in various settings today. What role, analysts, do you think analysts, do you think the lawful panelists, do you think these things play lawful order with respect to minorities . Richard i dont know. These things are vague. That is why i say it is probably a good thing to have video. What was the order . When i was a kid as you might figure, i was a white kid. We would be hanging on a corner and a copper, long and say, why dont you guys move, and we would move. Nobody got her rest it got arrested or hassled or continued questioning or pat downs. One of the most horrifying pictures i ever saw of was of a couple of black kids being patted down by Christine Todd whitman, the governor of new jersey, who had gone out with the state police for kicks. We have embedded this in our culture and it is very much worth worrying about. Leonard heres the thing. During the ferguson demonstrations, there was a Police Officer who wrote an essay, i believe for the washington post, and his essential argument was dont question tme. The essential argument was, if you dont want to get hurt dont you show, even if you are in the right. We have certain constitutional rights. I believe if i am not caucuses that given the commission of a crime, i do not have to tell you who i am. If i cannot certain assert that right, and in some of them later and said, you have that right and we are sorry, is that right any good . If i cannot assert that right in the moment, then do i have that right at all . [applause] moderator im going to assume i have three students in a line there. Lets go through them quickly. And thank you, panelist, for your responses being quick as well. This question is for mr. Raergood. I was one of them, because we have so much evidence of police of using their powers in ferguson and during the occupy movement, and just a lot, how can we take power away from police union so we can actually prosecute them and get them fired . Richard we have to have governments that are less afraid of them. The reason their benefits are so good is that mayors tend to kick it down the road and they dont want to take on Police Unions. I am now a public employee. I work for the state of new jersey. Why is it that the governor can get all excited about my pension, which i will never collect, because i will not work long enough, but hes not agitated about police pensions, which are twice as generous and offered at an earlier time. What is required is for government to take a look at what is happening under their nose. I dont see a lot you and i can do then to influence our governments to take a good look at what is happening in our name. Moderator you question. This is directed toward anyone. Do you think it is more difficult to become a Police Officer and make sure you are mentally fit or you cannot become a Police Officer without actually graduating high school. You cannot get a gad ged and become a Police Officer, or that we should have braver Police Officers who are not shooting people that are running away from them . Klara i think much more training clara i think much more training will stop the same reason we want to send doctors and nurses to set learn the latest techniques, Police Officers should also be brought up on techniques. And to raise their own consciousness. The most egregious case of a lack of screening is in the mirror tamir rice shooting