Transcripts For CSPAN Muslim Identities And Experiences In The U.S. 20170823

Facebook. Book tv on cspan 2. Television for serious readers. Up next on cspan, conversation on the social and political views of american muslims. How muslims are viewed in American Society from the Brooklyn Historical society, this is an hour and a half. [applause] thank you so much. If you could join me in welcoming our panelists to the stage. [applause] im going to be moderating the discussion for tonight. I think is a nice way for the Brooklyn Historical society to tell me that i need to not talk so much tonight and let other people talk. Here. E an amazing line up im going to run through their bio really quickly. To give you an insight as to what the structure of tonight will be, were going to have some questions for the panelists for about 45 minutes or so. Thereafter, we will open it up to you all to engage in discussion, q a with the panelists, for another 15 or 20 minutes before we wrap up the event. If you feel like youre hearing something you would hear a little more on, you have some questions on, feel free to jot notes down for yourself and we will have ample opportunity at the end of the evening to be able to engage in question and answers as well. And our panelists he represents prisoners a verys nationalities how the Guantanamo Bay another american detention facilities worldwide. New yorkers who find themselves in the crosshairs of the sprawling u. S. Security state as well as immigrant and asylumseekers. Before joining the faculty in 2009, he taught at yell and fordham post of his interests include the legal and policy responses to the september 11 attacks and other real or perceived National Security crisis sees, the rights of minorities and noncitizens, and International Military and law. Awardwinningnd new yorkbased Fashion Designer, fashion educator and entrepreneur whose high and modest Fashion Designs have drawn praise for the cunning blend traditional and cosmopolitan since abilities. Studied Fashion Design and fine arts at the Pratt Institute school of design and fashion business and lost her first collection in 2009. In 2014, she became the first jabi on theslimhi design condition show project runway. Shes a lover of food and dining. Research for think of them between her islamic faith invested cribbing culture led her to create the drink were glenn brewed sorrow in 2015, the first in the line of premium adult nonalcoholic beverages. The author of the critically acclaimed how does which to be a problem . Won an american book award for nonfiction. Latest book, this muslim as then life, chosen best book of 2015 by the progressive magazine and was also awarded the arab american book award for nonfiction. Also a columnist for the guardian in his writings appear internationalal publications. He is been featured in the wall street journal npr, and many other Media Outlets from around the world. The professor is also currently on faculty in the department of english at brooklyn college. If you could join in giving a quick round [applause] to start off, just a question for anybody, feel free to chime in if you like to answer. Incidents,t of bias hate crimes against muslims throughout United States and other parts of the world. One most recently and probably more devastating to people here local to the United States, was the murder of a 17yearold black muslim girl by the name what do you all think would be important for people who are not muslim to understand at a time like this . Especially in light of some of the things were seeing right now. [laughter] [indiscernible] it is good because i dont think about one of the people need to know typically. And preppingestion for this i saw. Typically, i dont think too much about what other people should need to know necessarily, but i kind of think is more protective measures about the community and the community kind of, you know, thinking about whether it is learning martial arts and self protection and that kind of thing, but being tighter as a community. With oursituation sister, may she rest in peace, i dont know i dont know it was concluded it was hate crime, but i dont always think everything every time a muslim is killed by somebody does because she were a hijab then that person, and made them think, i hate this person, let me kill this person. I dont know the full aspects of what happened, so i cant be too much on that. The typical things that you would want someone to know if theyre being prejudice against another group or if the have hate in their heart is that, you angerdo not take out your on a situation that this happened, you know, at the hands of so many you dont know, the person youre making a victim does not know. Like, dont to get out on just a random person. That is the basic thing. Generalization hurts people. Prejudice, racism, of that hurts people. I kind of feel like it is the same thing i would want anyone who is being racist or xenophobic im not sure if we developed a word for seven who had summoned because of their religion. What is that word . In that case, yeah, those generalizations and just trying to take that out on a person going vigilante is not the answer, like, clearly. I would like to add to what she said. What happened to our sister am a antihate pike of our sister, part of a spike in the hate. All of the antimuslim rhetoric. With the many incidents like that, unfortunately. Sisternabril is not the first. There were sisters and brooklyn associated who have had their hijabs ripped off. Even a sister who were a hijab no set on fire in manhattan. I think it is important about what sets the stage for these hate crimes to the extent official government policy and enables really a a gives permission to private actors to act on the spices and the racism. What you have in new york city, for example, officially sanctioned Police Surveillance Program Targeting muslims. That gives permission to private actors to engage in that sort of conduct against muslims. We look at with u. S. Government is doing domestically and overseas to muslim identified communities highway of exclusion , predatory prosecution, all the way up to elimination by drone strike of occupation, invasion, war, that always gives permission because all of these policies seem to be targeting or are targeting muslim addenda five communities in society. So i think in very real and what are local, state, municipal, and federal government does to mystically and overseas, it is rhetoric when he comes to muslims is a large part of why we are seeing these antimuslim incidents at the hand of private actors. Let me add a little bit homage to. This is going to take forever, isnt it . I do feel it is a shame that we have to begin with a question like this. I completely understand it. I think it is a shame because there is more to Muslim American life than hatred. There is more to it than the violence in more to it and the suspicion. But it is also very, very true i know were going to get through a lot of other stuff. But it is also very true some americans right now are extremely vulnerable and extremely scared, many of them. And for legitimate reasons as weve just been hearing from other panelists. What is really important to understand is that in the general culture, it seems like Muslim Americans have to fight they arenition that paying councils that that seems extremely unfair to me. So we have an example of this,ot only in the case with naeva was this a hate crime or not had anime, although wome example in North Carolina not two years ago. It quickly became, oh, that was a parking dispute. The official narrative became quickly that this was also some kind of altercation like a traffic altercation, as of hatred against somebody on the basis of who they are has no bearing also on traffic disputes or on parking disputes. There is a way we segment out the pain and the threat that have attached Muslim American bodies and muslim bodies these days. Im sure that nobody in this audience feels that way, but i feel like this is something that the question is asked, which the general public sort of take away from this, it seems to me to be aware, that there is a level of acknowledgment of muslim pain that i think is absent from our general culture today. Just to add to that as well, i think everything everyone has said has been spot on, but i also think when it comes to muslims and muslim life, i think we also are somewhat limited in who we imagine only think about muslims. I know there was a conversation around the sister and affection was a black muslim woman which means something very different in the general imagination, but also in general, i think if we are to look at muslim lies, then also look at them intersectional he. Muslim lives, that i know russell look at them for sectionally. Im a muslim black woman who does not wear a hijab. The way i viewed from the world is for different to how another black muslim woman in another part of the country who does where the job for expenses are similar, but very different. Im not processed immediately as a muslim. Friends wouldher be because they wore hijabs. Behoove the general population to think wider, that we are not one monolithic block and that we look very different and we live very different lives , even within the same Group Setting that we all seem to be put into. That is something people need to consider. I know there were lots of people onking often i am twitter, which is probably a waste of my time. Goodometimes they are conversations. A black woman said, some of you speaking right now have no idea what it is like to walk in the world as a black muslim woman. Shut a good number of people up. There was a lot of conjecture. Obvious conversations, historically marginalized groups, or not new. For me, i kind of go back to immediately post and 11 when i was living in london. A friend of mine who is a hija bi was and she felt very unsafe and she felt everyone is looking at her and she felt she was being followed and so on. Sympatheticghostly because i fully understood what she was saying. Another part of me could not help as a to her, oh, my god, that is my life as a black person. This is another layer of nonsense, of, you know, this kind of layer cake of nonsense. I think that is something we need to be thinking about all the time, that there are multiple identities, lighting colliding and living quite happily until they are to structure by outside forces. I think even in her case, i mean, the narrative kept evolving aboutn her identity, even. At first i did not know she was black. I did not read her that way right away. What happens with a lot of black people, anyway. Who knows how she identified me her father spoke with egyptian accent. If youre been saying there is a bias involved, it couldve been xenophobia. It could have been her being black. Is that is the way she identified or we put identify her as. It could have been her religion. It could have been it couldve been none of that. It couldve been the altercation that happened previously with voice. C i dont know. It is just crazy and wrong. Got what you were saying earlier that thing of, the aspect of putting more value on when a crime is done against a muslim. Automatically assumed to be linked to this date or a terrorist allegiance right away. By the time things are even a lot of times stories in the news the concluded the person because that is there so much and then whenever a white person commits a crime, its not looked at as anything at all. The prison was probably crazy, mentally ill. The idea is that when a muslim is killed at the hands of someone who had some kind of hate or felt like they were on behalf of something political because they think if youre doing a hate crime in this form, it is something to do with politics, terrorism because of some larger thing that happened. Person like this its kind of like Collateral Damage or something. We can pull a lot of different frames out of all of these responses, like into to snow policy, media rhetoric, media narrative, shapes for the population what they perceive muslims to be. For me one of the more a regular question i get asked by media, by audiences, is what do areims think, as if muslims this one homogenous body that every single one thinks exactly the same and does the same things and has the same experiences. Within the Muslim Community and outside of it there tends to be this sweeping generalization of who a muslim is and then in turn, what we understand islam to be. Describe, since the Muslim Community here in new york or more broadly the United States, we are coming together to engage the question of who is a muslim. But what would we say is really a response to that if we were asked, how would you answer that . Let me start with this one, if you dont mind. And thethat islam United States is a history of the United States. One of the really interesting things to me is that if we study the history of muslims in the United States, we study the history of the United States in really interesting fashion. The Muslim American population is only perhaps 1 of the population around the country. They come from 77 Different Countries of origin, which makes it one of the most pluralistic communities of religious devotion in the country. Inhas something to say, other words, about multiculturalism in the United States today. Its origins in the United States go back to before the United States. A great history in this country around this time in america. There were sizable numbers of people and slaves from africa who came to the United States in chains and were forced to work who themselves were muslim. Their stories are incredible stories that should become part of our curriculum, not just teaching about what slavery was in this country and complex fashion but also teaching history of enslavement in the United States. You can look at the history of the black liberation struggle in interesting ways through a muslim lens. You can look at the history of american imperialism through the history of the muslim lens as well. You dont need to look at these things in an exclusionary way. You should be looking at American History from multiple vantage points. What would lgbt history of the United States look like alongside a really rich Muslim American history at the same time . Having a kind of singular narrative that drives the one story of the country forward, that sees it as a story that really begins in europe. And thats not really what this country ever was, by looking at its foundations, if youre looking at its origins and complexities. I think that would do a lot to dispose this idea that islam and the United States begins on september 12, 2001. Im a foreigner in a foreign land, so i havent really had a lot of time by virtue of the nature of the work that i do to kind of find a community of my own that is a larger community. My experience of being a muslim ive been a muslim all my life. Last week,n nyu towards the end of ramadan. That was the first time i had been in a room with more than 50 muslims in maybe a decade. Because i had found that i its very odd. I grew up across europe and africa. I was born in london, we moved to nigeria. I always found myself more comfortable going in nigeria than the u. K. That to me was down to issues of representation. We talk a very good game about how we are all equal and the same. Because we are human beings, there are very many interpersonal issues. I never felt comfortable going to the mosque in the u. K. I had a couple of bad experiences that made me go, i will just pray at home. Its fine. And looking around that room and seeing so many people, just looking at every shade, every color, all these languages that were coming up, and people had all these histories, secondgeneration, thirdgeneration people, and looking at that and going im 16 months into living in this country. Very emotional just kind of sitting there and having all these people. All kinds of muslims. That can be really kind of that would have been a wonderful snapshot when were talking about islam in america. I think often about the fact that Many Americans of this generation, the first muslim they knew was probably a black man, muhammad ali. I think about how we have this idea of muslims as brown. For the longest time, muslims in the american imagination were black. Because of september 11, 2001, and the post9 11 world, suddenly every muslim was brown. Of erased and pushed aside a lot of other stories about what were going on, even the discussion of the muslim van. Ban. Itse were talking about, going to ruin all these peoples lives. No one seemed to focus on the african countries that were listed there. Talking about sudan, which is huge. It was a writer on twitter who said, is anyone talking about the fact that 50 of countries on that list are african countries . These are black muslims. We cant separate the two. Of obsessed with this idea of representation because its something im constantly in my work, im always looking at representation and images and stories that are told and how we are socializing to believing things about certain groups. Im coming at it because im a black person, im thinking about what happens when you add layers onto black identity. Day,ng in that room that eating a decision is halal delicious halal lasagna, i was looking around the room and realizing this is something that we should be talking about within ourselves. Really care i dont what people think to a certain extent. We should talk about this more within our own groups, our own spaces. That would extend as well to other places. We go into a lot of muslim communities here in new york city and the tristate area and even beyond. Since 2009 weve done literally hundreds of workshops in different muslim communities. The diversity of just new york city really reflects diversity of the Muslim Community globally. We have gone into mosques in Staten Island as well as west africa, north african communities, primarily yemeni communities and locally here. Also socioeconomically, many muslims in new york city are working class, they are driving cabs, their pushcart vendors, selling coffee on the street. Some are doctors. You have muslim professionals. You have mipsters, muslim hipsters. All these communities congregate in different ways and exhibit different degrees of religiosity. I want to point out something i think is important to remember. Association of muslims, when the fundamental muslim hasreality, been in the United States for us long as the United States has existed, even longer. Even today, 1 out of 3 muslims is an africanamerican. There is an africanamerican. Theres a very long history of american islam in that community specifically. Bere are many lessons to drawn from that community, the africanamerican Muslim Community. That can be and have been of great value recently in times of crisis and targeting, for predominately islam immigrant communities. Islam has been the country a lot longer than Donald Trumps family has. [laughter] up, ive, growing existed in a variety of different communities. Im from brooklyn. The mosque that i consider my home mosque has been around since the late 1950s. It is the mosque that was founded by malcolm x. It started out in the nation of islam. Shift intoade the more orthodox islam. We definitely carry on a lot of the good things that the good trainings and teachings that were in the nation of islam. Some people have very stringent diets still. We call the pioneers who are 60 and up. Diet thathem have a consists of one meal a day or two meals a day, something they learned in the nation of islam. Martial arts is a very big part of our community. Theres a dojo in my mosque, a dojo in the mosque down the block. With practice orthodox islam trade we pray five times a day. People cover. Our culture is very much like African American and Caribbean Culture. When its time to celebrate, we have a block party, when the weather is good. Pso, they docaly james brown impersonations. Theres always a martial arts demonstration. People perform hiphop, all that kind of stuff. That is for me what i grew up to seeing, black muslim culture. I grew up around other groups my family exposed me to other groups that were young, and i put i took it upon myself when i graduated from college, having more time to be social, just being in all kinds of different communities, whether its the nyu community. And this being, within these different groups, there are various cultures. Like if you are muslim and from south asia, you have a culture that is south asian and muslim, a lot of times that is conflated as being muslim culture because a lot of times those people grew up around south asian, maybe even probably african and arab if you grew up in a country that has been predominately muslim, then your idea about what is islam is whatever your people are doing, right. But if you come from a culture where you are very much american, because you are africanamerican or you are caribbean american, which at least from my parents generation and myself as a child of caribbean american parents, we just kind of gradually started identifying a lot with the Africanamerican Community and gaining an understanding of why,the thinking was and that kind of stuff even if we have the same exact history, so its like this merger. It was always this idea that i always grew up with this idea from my father, when it comes to your culture, like who i am as an american and caribbean american, and islam, then you take your culture and you finally through islam. Islam is like, it will teach you morality, is going to teach you to pray, dont drink alcohol. Dont drink alcohol. You have a certain diet. Abstain from sex until you are married. All these different things. The culture has these aspects in it that are not in islam, then you funnel that out but everything thats good, you can keep it. Thats what i learned growing up. The are lots of things i could do and take from american and Caribbean Culture but i didnt. A caribbean american, carnival is a big deal. My family is trinidadian. When i was younger, they would take us to carnival as a little girl. My parents converted to islam. My dad was 19. My mom was like 26. They got married in the early 20s. We used to go to carnival when i was a kid. After a while my dad was thinking he started looking at carnival differently because hes thinking in terms of modesty and he started thinking, maybe this is not so good to have my daughter see people gyrating on each other and the huge party atmosphere. That thing, im caribbean, i can listen to the music and everything like that, but im not going to partake in carnival because i muslim. Im muslim. there was always this sensibility, this awareness i knew. It, everybody if you are a chechen, egyptian, if you are of a culture where you see that as a part of pak istani, means muslim for some you might not be able to funnel things out as much. Another thought about the Muslim Community that i want to share, i almost feel like we have such a strong term, i dont hear it as much now. G, like this global muslim village. To me its almost like the american idea, we the people and all these things we strive for but are not perfect with. Freedom, liberty called all this kind of stuff. Perfect union, right . And its you strive for it, this is the ideal, and the uma, theres this ideal that brings us together a lot where its like, you just kind of have this trust in a sense. I grew up with this feeling of trust. Because they have the certain that justt are good makes us get each other. And some of that has withered away a bit after 9 11. Even that sense of high alert, that america has kind of had and abouts muslims and terrorists or whatev er, that has affected our communities as well. We have many, many layers to being a muslim. Ifi think its interesting, we back the professor pass comments about the historical roots of the country, we definitely have estimates of about 30 of slaves that came here were muslim. The settling of certain colonies like roanoke had people who were muslim, they were turkish, and moores who were president and iowa. The first mosque built in the country was in cedar rapids by lebanese immigrants in the late 1800s. Trying to understand that in the framework, how its very easy to have identity erased, to be present but still be invisible and to not be kind of recognized also goes back to some of the historical roots of the country where aspirations of individuals land thatght a embraced immigrants and diversity, which is distinct from the european context in which people were leaving from. They didnt seek to embrace diversity in that sense. Where you had the literal launching of crusades, transatlantic slave trades in the name of religion, and then an embrace of the secular and liberalism, saying that spirituality and faith, they are the bane of everything in society, so lets go in a different direction. This country didnt fight its worst battles in those frames but it fought its bloodiest battles, its civil wars around race and class. The foundational documents of the country literally afforded full privilege to white men, gave nothing to women, and didnt even a quite black men and women as a whole person in comparison to their white counterparts. Thats an important thing to understand, that im hearing from you all, how the institutional developments in , there issee today this deeply entrenched mechanism that impacts minority populations of all backgrounds, to necessitate this understanding, foundational to address what is symptomatic and manifests itself in the form of muslim identity. Today we see multiple realities aware of if we werent it from decades or centuries ago , its something you cant really deny anymore. How do you think the Broader Society concert to deal with the challenges we have here . They are impacting muslim communities but even through intersection analogy, to look at distinct communities, is impacting a lot of minority populations, tied to race and class. What do we as diverse and eventual, to be able to harness pluralism that allows for us to be part of the solution to this, and move beyond the conversation that enables us to individually come together better, then start to take on some of the institutional issues that are really infringing on the daytoday lives of so many. Do you want to go . I think the conversations are an important part of what will eventually come. I think the ways in which certain communities and groups have learned by virtue of the fact that they had to in order to survive. I think about the conversation with my friend post 9 11 and this new awareness that suddenly was her reality of, oh my goodness, suddenly im a target. I was able to fall back on my many years of being a black pers on and say, that wont happen. Dont worry about that. Just keep going. I think the conversation at the beginning of the change, some of those things are easily won. People, aboutose evil being a level of awareness, that muslims are many things in the media the media has its own narratives as well. And are not necessarily as independent as you may have hoped. Answers, theeeking idea of which is a difficult thing to do when you are told to know, what was traditionally seen as trusted sources, and this kind of theres been a societywide ersion of trust. Erosion of trust. That is going to be how we reckon with what we choose to treat marginalized and minority ethnic groups in general. Theres a lot of conversation , americans with lower incomes, the health care debate. These are the things that no one was looking at before. The poor can suffer. Whatever. The tipping point, were all kind of pushing, and all of a sudden that becomes a big story about the disenfranchised. Again, talk about separating groups. The white working class, theyre thinking about all the other people who are working class who are not white. I think about the ways that having conversations and pushing boundaries, and these things that are part of a domino effect that we have, the idea that we have one mode of attack, one mode of tackling the problem is something we have to get out of thinking. This is something that happens a grassroots levels and there are so Many Organizations doing amazing work across levels. It has to be a multipronged approach. Otherwise there are cracks and people fall through them. Thats when you begin to form a narrative. We talk about islam in america and we are talking about brown people or black, whatever. We are talking about rich doctors as opposed to the workingclass people who drive and and are street cleaners struggling. These are small things. It starts with the idea of representation of who is muslim. Thinking about your work, for example. We spoke about this on the podcast that buzz feed produces called see something, say something. We are talking about the daniel daylewis character. I think it was the First Episode he prayed. It was the stiffest praying id ever seen. It was so odd. Equating these are all things were trying to challenge and move past. That is the beginning of something and those conversations that followed on, oftentimes conversations that dont feel necessarily helpful but actually are. I would say that because im a talker. I think these are things we have to consider. Levels, andl people working in tandem with one another, all these other structures that help to push things forward. I think if you are interested only in your own liberation, the liberation of society as a whole, that is not liberation for anyone. Is a way that Muslim Americans have to be deeply concerned about everybodys liberty. But thats also actually on the other side of things. Theres a tremendous opportunity around Muslim American issues are also at the core. You dont have to convince people of this anymore. You had to really convince people there is a reason why they should be paying attention to Muslim American civil liberty issues. Now you dont have to convince people. Everybody knows theres a reason. There is a really important whicht to that right now, is that now i think we are starting to see something that many of us have known or are intuitive for a long time, which is that fighting for Muslim American rights is not really about the rights of Muslim Americans only. Its really about fighting for the principles of the society you want to live in an what they will be. To that degree, i think one of the most underreported or unde rthought, undertheorized things about our contemporary moment is when we talk about the situation of Muslim Americans, we often put them in the frame of u. S. Raical relations. But, when we think about Race Relations in the United States historically, we tend to think almost exclusively in domestic ways. The fact is that as long as there are wars overseas, Muslim Americans are vulnerable. The ways in which Civil Liberties of Muslim Americans exist or dont exist is intimately and deeply connected to what happens with american foreignpolicy at the same time. I think that w as a general population, i think to change what is going on overseas. That is what is that stake here, is really not only for our own survival but the survival of what this country should the and for the survival of the planet. I do not want to sound grandiose, but that is where we are. I think the theme of is ating artificial constructive and powerful scene. When you think about the global, youlocal to pause to consider that from the perspective,nts they look at it as a single continuum. They do not look at it as domestic policy, and what is going on overseas in certain countries internationally. They are looking at a range of Security Policies and practices that can be global all the way most minute local circumstance. I think we are doing ourselves [no audio] by accepting that kind of sign loan and focusing on what it is. The same can be said for ways to function in ways more accountable. It is entirely artificial and to tot extent, foolish distinguish between one set of policies and practices that are racist and another. For a long amount of time, things can be more concrete. On thisivist working work siloed off on accountability issues. That was a strategic mistake and when i think that was corrected recently. It is the same as police doing stop and chris, targeting latino and black communities. Stop and frisk, targeting latino and black communities. I think many people on the panel have made this point and embodied this point that many folks are black, latino and muslim, so they are subject to stop and frisk in their neighborhood, just like to nypd surveillance in the neighborhood. In recent years, activist in new york cap correct have corrected that and drawn lines and bridges, recognizing the commonality, the challenge, and that they are dealing with a common enemy. That has been a much more effective approach and one that needs the generalized nationally, up to what happens overseas, in the problematic ways in which a government dissipates. Government participates. A list ofwant to give resources to people on how they can become more informed, not just narratives that are domestic, but inclusive of narratives, domestically, in their neighborhoods, in brooklyn , a beautiful place, wrote when has a lot of food, security, Poverty Issues and challenges. I stayed at a part right around here, named after one of the beastie boys, and someone has refuted it with swastikas and from and i think make America White again and there are realities that are local and across the country, and globally, as well. What would you recommend to people to broaden perspective and become more informed . To become more understanding and aware . Know, it is funny because i feel like after 9 11 a lot of things have happened to muslims being seen as the villain. It outnded me of what like, this feeling we constantly likeas a black american, as a kid growing up in the 1980s and 1990s every time i would see a black man on the ors with his hands cuffed some kind of crime or whatever, and a lot of times i would think, please, do not make the person lack, you know person black, you know . It always felt like black people were vulnerable to the acts of one person like our whole community was vulnerable. And people would talk about it on they would have a joe joke on Comedy Central and it 10ld be like, oprah, steps forward. Kim, five steps back. Like anybodys action could take you back, you would lose, your people would lose by the act of one. That just comes to me like i felt like the same thing played out again and it has to do with police,a, and also the the way they would treat black people and now it is the same thing. It filters into the imagination of the Common People and policies that are made. All of that is in the mind of the everyday person and you get somebody who sees a muslim and a snap and it is a hate crime, they do something, hate crime, whatever. Misinformed, they are hypnotized by something that they heard, you know . Personink for the common , for me, i feel like im watching the game that is played and it is the same game being played and on different individuals, so it just moves around. A long time ago, the japanese were subject to what happened in the media and all of that and policies, and then look what happened to black people for a long time. Hispanic people. It just moves around. It is like, heres the new scapegoat, the group of people, the active ones that can bring them back and overshadow the acts of so many good people. Realize that this is human nature, or something we have to resist against. From one group to the next. We do not know who the next group will be after muslims, but probably another group after muslims. Let me refrain in the example part, iwastika at the do not know if any of you are familiar about it, but when i spoke to that press conference, i spoke to people that that swastika represents the darkest potential of humanity that individuals were so motivated by their bigotry and hatred that their objective of the annihilation of our jewish brothers and sisters from this world and represents the second dark potential and humanity, is that those who sought to perpetrate genocide of violence were only able to be successful because there were so many others who had the means to stop simply sat back and watched and did nothing. I think the indifference that plague society today, that can rhetoric,in political Institutional Policy mechanism, media narrative, but what do we do to break it . How do you get the 150 people sitting here today to be comfortable enough to acknowledge why they are not black person a shot in the street, when they are not standing when there are pipelines leaking into the Indigenous Lands of this country, why there are drones brahmin places all over the world bombing places all over the world, why nobody knows there are 30 Million People dying because of famine in africa. How do we break that . Specific books, spaces, activists, academics, where do we go where we can experience, and people can come to the message and experience islam in the 50 lived way the lived way . How do we break down that passivity and meet that hate with something more positive as opposed to the indifference that plagues us . Does that make sense . I think a big part of that that it has been tireless work in that you do not get a day off from doing it. I have followed specific activist who are working on several fronts to make sure this stays in peoples minds. They do fundraising, awareness raising. They are working 24 7 and a lot of times, people say, you should take a break because this is serious life work. I think a lot of the time, it comes from conversations happening that includes the muslim communities locally but also, conversations between nonmuslim groups, as well. A lot of times, i am saying something in a stream of consciousness and somebody will blahcan you tell me blah, and more often than not, a reply will come from usually the white person and another white person who says, why dont you try reading blah, blah, and that takes the pressure off of me to give information. A lot of conversations are happening with muslims, which are great in naming your problem. You name the issue and proceed and the solution comes from conversation. I think a lot of the time muslims, black people, whoever currently hot against in some way, five against in some way but i also think about the fact that we are only solutions to the problem. There are so many other people i think a lot about the way of activism and interest that post that donald trump collection i attended the womens march for work as a woman and seeing all these people riled up and angry and part andthis hilarious one of the ones that made me laugh the hardest whereby black and lgbt women that said, welcome, we have been here. That was a big thing. Massive radicalization of the previously quiet and suddenly thinking, if they come for those people, they might come for me. Thesek people are having ideas that are percolating. I think that is going on but keeping that energy up. I think so often i am trying d can doite people better. I think this falls on not marginalized groups but people who post some modicum of power to go searching, to go looking for how to help. That is something we fall back on. People will express and say on twitter or facebook, this happen to me today and people go, i hope youre ok. Someone might make you stupid, which is nice make you soup, which is nice, but what else are you doing . Are you talking to your racist families . Your uncle who was a Police Officer who has objectionable groups about groups . Are you talking to your father . Your mother . Are you working on the hot of the Political Party and doing things on behalf of a Political Party and doing things . I think these ripples extend beyond. I am not saying that muslims and others should wait for it to get better. Of the times,lot do not wait for somebody else. I am being so stupid, but be the change you want to see. [laughter] i never said i wasnt cheesy. I am saying a lot of the times, this is something you can do. I think people are waiting for permission and it that is something you are waiting for, allow me, a foreigner in a foreign land, the permission to go forth and do the things that will make it better for everyone to that is something i think needs to keep getting hammered over and over again. You are the one you are waiting for. I think this is something i cannot stress how often this has to be told over and over, to push harder, to make the phone calls, to attend jfk and make your voice heard, do something. You cannot wait. Exactly what we were saying, you have to get to the point where you realize if they come for your labor, it will come for you. I do not think there is any other way of saying it except saying it. This is not about one person or group. It is about all of us. We are all in this. If you take a step back because it does not directly affect you today, you will not notice something directly at your door and it is too late for all of us. Selfishly, i want you to do it for me but think about yourselves. It will happen to you. Question, the way you put it, the idea of soup, what else are you doing . That is a question about sustainability. Are the folks who saw at jfk going to sustain that effort for the next four years, eight years, if trump gets reelected . More importantly, are they going to organize effectively . You want to participate in politics and you need a program to do that. Is that happening . Are people just marching or are they forming organization and formulating agendas that they will follow up on . My deepest and darkest concerns at this point in time, as someone who has been working on these issues for eight years under obama and since the bush administration, working on issues, working with communities that have been targeted by various policies justified in the name of security, my concern is when i would get these people and groups that are new to the saying, iyou are wonder whether i wonder to what extent there is an affinity and the line between my critique and theres . On some level, if there had been a fundamental alignment in our critique of what is going on, then those same people would have been there for eight years under the Obama Administration. The very same outcomes were being achieved and in more muted fashion by the Obama Administration without all of the rhetoric the Trump Administration has been deploying, which made it less visible but no less damaging for the communities on the receiving end. For example, muslims have been excluded to the immigration system for eight years under the Obama Administration. President obama shattered duplication issues. He deported more people than previous residents combined, yet, there was silence. You wonder, what drives the current moment of political outrage . Is it a principle of alignment, a critique and shared analysis of what is diplomatic of what is going on today, or a sense of revolts and outreach of what trump and outreach of what trump is doing outrage of what trump is doing . If it is just putting forward this tasteful rhetoric, i am not sure those are reliable allies. I think those are allies that can be placated. If the trump ministrations turned down its overtly racist rhetoric, these allies will fall away. That is my darkest concern. When we are trying to figure out how will we organize and who will be our allies, if it is a sense of outrage of the trump ministrations deploying a distasteful rhetoric, then i think we are in trouble if we decide to rely on those allies. Were going to shift to the q a snla in in the interest of time. I would say a lot of people on the left start to speak more so because they now stopped seeing muslims as a liability and as an asset politically. Trump, every republican spoke courageously about muslims and various minority groups spoke tremendously about horrendously about muslims and various minority groups, and now it is pushed which is problematic in its own way. Do people have questions . We have a microphone that will go through the audience. We have to keep in mind we try to limit it to just questions and in the interest of time, try to keep things as distinct as possible. Yes . Pardon me. As a muslim, a lot of things changed after 9 11. I was thinking, is this my religion or Something Else . I am from afghanistan. All my life i have been a muslim. This radical version of muslim emerge. After afghanistan was invaded and at the beginning, nobody took seriously it would crash as easily, but others fought very hard and this got the attention of the world. West,ited states, the pakistan, they saw an opening. They saw an opportunity to pay back the soviets, so they helped the afghan majority and the money came from the arab gul f countries, especially saudi arabia, and now they needed an ideology to go with. When i say this was brutal, i saw it first hand. When they dropped from the bombed thatthat were put on little children, that is just a want to kill they realizedse they cannot win this war so we will just erase the villages because they were sanctuaries for the rebels. This was really 1. 5 billion people,died and finally 16 million back then, became immigrants and refugees. War was very the brutal indeed. Very Deadly Weapons on both boundshat crossed the and out kinds of others from the other side. In interest of time i just want to say that this verdict version of radical islam was created and i have a question to this. The very radical version of islam, which was the theyreason that basically and saudi arabia, this to support the. Audi family they took that version and made it even more radical to fight the russians and that is what emerged. Can you articulate the question . I am coming to the question. That is how i see 9 11. This was political, not religion. Religion has nothing to do with it. My question is, is this only means that feels this or are other muslims, especially educated, speaks better than me, is anyone else also sees this to explain this to americans . That islam has nothing to do with it. I just want to hear your thoughts. Sorry if i took up too much time. See why. Thank you. We can field questions if we keep responses to a couple of minutes each. I think for just about any know islammuslim, we and the way we have lived. I know the way i live out islam is as someone who believes in the creator of this universe and who believes in the benevolence of that creator and that we should just attribute all the good to him, so i pray, i fast during, don, i fast, stay away from things that are bad and build up the tenants of it. I do not see anyone trying to protest against me doing any of those things, so does it seem like islam or something to do that in different of having muslim populations of people say, it is against islam because these people are muslim but it has nothing to do with the face of the religion. People who create heinous acts, they have nothing to do with their faithfulness or belief in god because most every religion advocates for good, love, respect and kindness. Thank you. Any other questions . Sir . Good evening. First, i wanted to thank everybody for coming out and speaking and speaking brilliantly on some of these topics. Quickly, as an africanamerican muslim, born and raised in harlem, i would say sometimes i do not want to use a fence, but sometimes it is offensive hearing the word that after 9 11 things became bad because as an africanamerican muslim, served in the marine corps, was a corrections officer, the 20 years in the fire department. Each one of those jobs i had to fight and i had a problem being a muslim and africanamerican. After 9 11, yes, maybe shifted to the stereotype of what they thought a muslim was, but there was always a problem in this country. On as muslims, no matter what ethnicity, to look at that muslim body and say, do the work, do the history. If you are moving to a country and have seen africanamericans have had this problem for so long, and muslims for so long, do not think he will come here and it will be different for you. Time, but it will shift. And other comments about the greatest fear 90 , 2 is africanamerican firefighters in new york city, so i was surrounded by a majority of white firefighters who always thought like trump. The tv was always on fox. They were always antimartin her king, and stein mar and ted malcolm x. There is a firehouse in Brooklyn Heights that try to put trump on the front of the fire truck and the mayor had to tell them to take it off. Is i seelike you, people still having this thinking and they are raising children that still have this same thinking, so i asked myself, how can it change . I know how i was raised as an africanamerican and muslim, and i know my father made an effort. He sent me to a jewish camp for three years because it was kosher food, but he just make sure i wasnt just around african. I think it looks like it is going to be on the shoulders of muslims to do that and part of islam is already doing that, but to repeat it with our children. We will have to continue to fight because i dont think from the people i have worked with that they are passing the word to their children. Thank you. By the way, hows the food at camp . [laughter] was a tasty . Tasty . It let me say one thing that was very important to hear. Aboutk there is something nt1, not to say there were headed sense predecessors, but it seems like they were instrumenting politics in a way that is different than before. I think it is interesting what you are saying about who is watching whats. Relating that to the question earlier about what are we going to do to affect change in the world, i think one of the things we could be doing to affect change is stop watching tv. There was a recent study that in thet this week Kennedy School of government about media. They follow three different 75 ofs and they found on muslims was about isis. They also counted how many times muslims actually spoke about islam, it was 3 . People did many other studies that they say the more you watch fox news, the less you know about things. That is an actual study. There is a correlation between people who watch fox news and who have racist or antisomatic or xenophobic attitudes. What are we going to do . We should ask what are you going to do about books . Books, forread my one thing. Everyone does great work on this panel. I completely appreciate the fact that there is an unseemly mr. Donald trump and there is a suspicion about losing our steam and if this is an authentic social change moment or not. But i also do think social on fents can only be based un and love and getting together and really wanting to change the world and not a duty. If we are approaching it as a duty, we will lose a lot of people. I appreciate the point of expanding your community that you associate with. I think you find other ways of how other people also have fun and what their moments what their imperatives are. Use your brilliance, own brilliance in your ways. Everybody has their own talents. If we can use our own individual talents in the right ways for the creation of these different kinds of communities that are our more based on sharing planets, then what about a world we live in. I just want to put that out. The suspicions and trepidations, but i think we have to have some joy in it at the same time. I think the joy is something that comes because we are human beings. I also have the worry that when ething is no longer trendy walters,nded of john if you go home with someone you dont have to sleep with them. But itind of like ha ha, is also kind of true. To an extent, but there it is work. It is work. I think about the movements in the civil rights movements. There was music to go with the moments. Then there is also the actual work of the moment. I was on the train after the womens march and people were saying i am awake now and i am fighting now and i kept wanting to say, please do. With is a 90yearold three generations of offspring. She was saying im fired up with this little girl, this sixyearold girl that is really great. I hope when she gets comfortable again she doesnt stop doing the work. Of course joy, of course fun. I also kept thinking, please dont stop. When there is comfort, you do forget. I think about the motivating talks. Someone said something about having shame. And you can shame them into the matter. You dont have that anymore. Have you make sure things stay in peoples minds and they keep doing the works . The work . Sometimes joy is not enough but it is necessary. I think that people have become curious. Islam and muslim are passed up in the media so much. Prior to 9 11, there were things happening in the Muslim Community. We had different kinds of issues. It wasnt spoken about so much in news. People have become curious, waht is th what is this . Maybe people start googling or researching for themselves. You have to form an opinion now because previously this wasnt something you may have been thinking about at all. Me, i tend to think there is inevitably some good coming out of every kind of situation. We do see a lot of negative things happening, but you see a lot of good too. Forming now thinking about things they were not thinking about. For a lot of people, discovering a lot of good things about eight safe tradition they didnt think anything about. Even if they were looking into spirituality, now thinking, maybe i want to be muslim or that kind of thing. For my parents, he didnt even think black people could be muslim because he thought indian people could be muslim. And him tomething start discovering and looking into that. I think peoples curiosity is the first thing. You get to decide who you are. Are you going to be somebody who reenacts actions of the past . Bigotry and ignorance. Or are you going to be someone who wants to find out the truth . Are people being scapegoated . They all bad or is it just some people who are bad and they are being shined a light on . I think thats a pretty good notes and on. Thank you all for joining us this evening. [applause] thank you guys. Congress returns in less than two weeks. Funding for the federal government in september ends september 30 so they have to pass a spending bill. Congress has to increase the debt ceiling to avoid a default. Other items include rewriting the tax code, continued work in the health care legislation, several hearings expected the first week back. House and senate are back on september 5. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] we talked about some of the struggles of people not only an appellation but throughout the country. To know whatnts youre reading. Send us your Summer Reading list ooktv list on twitter booktv. Road. s voices from the at the National Conference of state legislators summit in boston asking attendees, what is the most important issue to your states. What is important to our state is washington makes sure we maintain health care for the poor, elderly. We have to make sure if we replace obamacare, we replace it with something smart and reasonable. An issue we are struggling with right now is property tax. Because of the fast increase in ruralstate property, farmers are struggling to pay a high property tax. How do we balance that with the needs for our schools and money appropriations . One of the issues we are dealing with right now is how do we balance it out. Most important issue is unfortunately the opiate crisis. Children are the Collateral Damage. One day, they will need therapy to ask and how they have lost their education, their family members, and other loved ones. Were talking about a neglect issue. We need more money and we need a declaration of an emergency. Thank you. The most important issue facing our state is the partisanship that keeps us from making any progress. I do not believe in putting allegiance to a party over the people. R we can leave the d and outside of the building, there is no issue we cannot tackle. Thank you. Medicalsure the department will adhere to its policies of having minority and women. We feel this is very important and will be addressed